307: Insidious Curly Taxonomies

Come along on a journey from Pooh’s Corner to Brett’s rock collection as we spin the feelings wheel and fire up the random word generator. Also: nvUltra update!

Meet Mindbloom. When it comes to mental health, sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough. Maybe it’s time to check out a guided ketamine therapy program — Mindbloom can help. After only 2 sessions, 87% of Mindbloom clients reported improvements in depression, and 85% reported improvements in anxiety. Right now, Mindbloom is offering Overtired listeners $100 off your first six-session program when you sign up at mindbloom.com/overtired and use promo code overtired at checkout.

Grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to nordvpn.com/overtired to get a huge discount off your NordVPN Plan AND 4 months for free! It’s completely risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee!

Our podcast swap today is with the “Better Call Daddy” show. Host Reena Friedman Watts interviews guests like Jerry Springer, Judge Alex, Nanny Yvonne, and Johnny Spoiler. Each episode, Reena interviews the guest, with her father, Wayne Friedman, weighing in at the interview’s conclusion. Tune in at bettercalldaddy.com.

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Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.


Insidious Curly Taxonomies

[00:00:00] Intro-Outro: Tired. So tired, Overtired.

[00:00:04] Jeff 1: Hello everybody. Hello. You there in the kitchen and you there in your car?

[00:00:09] Brett 1: You there in the bushes?

[00:00:11] Jeff 1: the rain dripping on your windshield in the bushes. Ugh. Is that like a USB speaker situation? One of those little ones. I am Jeff Severance Gunzel, one of three hosts of the Overtired podcast. Although only two hosts are here for the first few minutes.

[00:00:30] One of them is Brett Terpstra

[00:00:33] Brett 1: Hello, Jeff?

[00:00:34] Jeff 1: and Christina’s, uh, Taylor Swift. She’s getting

[00:00:37] Brett 1: Let, let me read you, uh, Christina’s last message in our, in our group chat says, start without me. I’ve gotta get tickets for my mom.

[00:00:48] Jeff 1: Hmm. Been there. I’ve never been there.

[00:00:52] Brett 1: I’ve never been there.

[00:00:53] Jeff 1: That’s not true. I bought my mom and I tickets for a Parliament Funkadelic show in Chicago about five or 10 years ago. My first, my first concert was my mom and her boyfriend took me to the Met Center here in Minnesota, in Bloomington, and, uh, where the Mall of America now stands.

[00:01:14] And we went and saw, uh, the, the Parliament. And I was like five years old.

[00:01:18] Brett 1: You got the pee funk?

[00:01:20] Jeff 1: I got no memories, but the band lives in me.

[00:01:24] Brett 1: wait. You were young enough that you have no memories, but you bought the tickets.

[00:01:27] Jeff 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Come on now. Focus. I bought the tickets. I bought the,

[00:01:33] Brett 1: right away.

[00:01:35] Jeff 1: I bought the tickets for five to 10 years ago when we saw Parliament Funkadelic,

[00:01:39] Brett 1: Oh,

[00:01:40] Jeff 1: honor of, and as a thank you for taking me in

[00:01:43] Brett 1: Oh my God. Yeah. I’m super scattered today. Like you started talking and I just immediately, just immediately left the room. I’m sorry. It’s not personal. It’s not at all

[00:01:54] Jeff 1: familiar with this response. One time I was, I was upset that my partner had forgotten something that I had told her. And, and I said, I, I mean, it was important. I told, you know, I told you. And, and, and she goes, but you say so much And I was like, oh man. Touche. You won that round.

[00:02:18] Brett 1: right before this episode, I had a therapy appointment and it struck me that my therapist remembers stuff we’ve talked about. Like I don’t, I don’t remember te telling my therapist all kinds of things and he is like, well, a couple weeks ago you mentioned this person and, and your relationship and this regard.

[00:02:38] And I was like, really? We talked about that? Holy shit. Um, But I also appreciate about my therapist that I can change the topic whenever I get bored and he’ll just track with me. He’s like, okay, we’re talking about this now. Which is like having a conversation with an ADHD person who’s perfectly willing to jump when you jump.

[00:02:59] Jeff 1: Well, it’s also like, it’s like I, I would imagine if you’re a therapist and your client is sort of suddenly bouncing out of a topic that, that’s data

[00:03:11] Brett 1: yeah. Yeah, for sure. Scratching the notepad.

[00:03:16] Jeff 1: I see.

[00:03:18] Brett 1: Cannot maintain a train of thought.

[00:03:20] Jeff 1: I had a therapist for about five years and um, who was absolutely incredible at, at holding my story and was able to call back to conversations four years, three years previous in really meaningful, very timely ways. And all she had were handwritten notes and I just thought that was so, I mean, it felt so good and in fact it made it, she retired, which is why I stopped seeing her as the therapist, but like, It was sad to leave just for that reason.

[00:03:56] Selfishly, you know, because it felt like, oh, you , you know so much, you know, maybe more than any other person on earth about me,

[00:04:07] Brett 1: Yeah,

[00:04:10] Jeff 1: just gonna retire. What’s this about? Um, it is a

[00:04:13] Brett 1: But I still need to,

[00:04:15] Jeff 1: I still need you

[00:04:17] Brett 1: yeah.

[00:04:18] Jeff 1: So anyhow, that’s

Mental Health Corner

[00:04:20] Brett 1: Should we do a, should we do a mental health corner, or should we hope that Christina jumps in any second now?

[00:04:27] Jeff 1: Yeah. You wanna talk a mental health corner? Should we walk over here to the corner? Come on over

[00:04:31] Brett 1: Yeah, come on.

[00:04:33] Jeff 1: little stool for you. It’s green.

[00:04:35] Brett 1: I went to a preschool called Poo Corner.

[00:04:38] Jeff 1: No?

[00:04:39] Brett 1: Um, after Winnie the Poo, not, not, you know,

[00:04:44] Jeff 1: Oh, not poo poo. Yeah, no, I, I was tracking, but actually it’s really good you clarified.

[00:04:48] Brett 1: not Poop Corner, but, uh, yeah. At our graduation there were posters of, uh, Winnie and Piglet, and I definitely grew up with a fascination for Winnie the po. Did you ever see, this is kind of mental health corner because this is the recesses of my brain, but did you ever see the more recent Christopher Robbins movie?

[00:05:14] Jeff 1: No, I did not.

[00:05:15] Brett 1: There’s this amazing moment where he wakes up in the hundred Acre Wood, uh, Christopher Robbins, who’s played by, what’s his name? I don’t remember. Anyway, he wakes up in the a hundred acre wood Christopher Robbins as an adult, and he says, oh no, it’s tomorrow when he looks at his, his watch and Winnie the booth says, oh, that’s weird.

[00:05:35] It’s almost always today.

[00:05:38] Jeff 1: Oh

[00:05:39] Brett 1: Blew my mind.

[00:05:40] Jeff 1: Oh, uh, I love that. Oh, that’s awesome.

[00:05:45] Brett 1: I love winning the PO so much. Um,

[00:05:48] Jeff 1: lots to love, lots to love.

[00:05:51] Brett 1: That’s funny. It’s almost always today, Oh man. So I am, I am not, I’m, I’m not depressed, but I’m depressed. And, and this goes back to my whole thing about how I don’t think I ever find stable. Like I am full of anxiety and self-doubt right now. I’ve been losing sleep over upcoming events that I can’t talk about publicly yet. Um, but like things the, so like there’s something coming up that if it happens, it means a major change in my life and I have to make adaptations.

[00:06:37] Before I can make that change. And uh, it’s both sides of that are very stressful to me and I have stress dreams. Even if I try to convince myself like there’s nothing to stress about, uh, it will keep me up all night. And it’s not mania. I wish it was mania, but it’s just insomnia combined with depression and anxiety.

[00:07:03] And it’s driving me insane right now. Um, and if this thing doesn’t happen, then I have to cope with the idea that, you know, the things that I don’t like aren’t gonna change, uh, which is a whole level of stress on its own. I wish I could say, I wish I could be more elaborate about what’s happening, cuz I do much better when I can speak in plain terms.

[00:07:25] Jeff 1: Let me ask you, I have a question. Have you ever seen the, um, we started with poo and now I’m gonna ask you about the feelings wheel. Have you, have you ever seen that?

[00:07:35] Brett 1: No, I don’t

[00:07:36] Jeff 1: it’s basically a, it’s a wheel , it’s a circle, right? And there are 1, 2, 3 rings of that circle, okay? In the center are these emotions or feelings, anger, sadness, surprise, joy, love and fear, right?

[00:07:51] But what it does in the next layer out, if we take fear, it gives you more words. Scared, terror, insecure, nervous, horror, right?

[00:08:01] Brett 1: I have seen something like

[00:08:02] Jeff 1: For terror, there’s historic, hysterical and panic for scared. There’s helpless and frightened. For insecure, there’s an adequate and inferior. It’s like, it’s actually an amazing way to find the.

[00:08:14] I’m actually looking for, cause you’re just saying, I’m depressed, but I’m not depressed, I’m

[00:08:18] Brett 1: yeah. No, I could use this.

[00:08:20] Jeff 1: what would happen if you looked at that because it does actually give you a language. And I will tell you that having known about this for a long time, my, my partner’s a therapist and just like left it out one day, I don’t think intentionally for me,

[00:08:33] And I remember just feeling like, wow, there is so much language to help me describe or even, or even discover how I feel right now, right when I get locked in the same few words.

[00:08:47] Brett 1: Okay. So I found it. I found it on the internet. And, let’s see. Scared where? Let’s see. Energetic, playful, creative. Sad. Mad. Oh, scared. Okay. So scared. I’m feeling insecure. Foolish. Foolish. Am I feeling foolish? No.

[00:09:10] Jeff 1: Right? It might have a different one.

[00:09:12] Brett 1: It, it goes scared, insecure, and then insecure. Just goes straight to foolish. There’s no like mul.

[00:09:18] Jeff 1: interesting. I think there must be many different versions of the feeling wheel, cuz for me, insecure goes to inadequate and inferior and I’m not, I just grabbed one off the internet too, I

[00:09:27] Brett 1: Inadequate. Inadequate. Makes more sense to me.

[00:09:30] Jeff 1: Mm.

[00:09:30] Brett 1: Oh my God. Yeah. Like every one of these feelings will, is different. Yes. But I, I, I found the one that, that has inferior and, and inadequate, and I am feeling inadequate. Uh, like I can’t, I feel like I can’t, I can’t keep doing what I’m doing because I’m not adequate and I’m worried that I can’t do what I wanna do because I’m not adequate.

[00:09:56] Yeah. I’m feeling inadequate. That’s why, that’s my mental health check-in. I’m feeling inadequate

[00:10:01] Jeff 1: Yeah.

[00:10:02] Brett 1: even though I’ve been told I’m perfectly adequate both by my therapist and by my girlfriend, and by the people in my life. Um, it’s hard to convince myself.

[00:10:16] Jeff 1: or is it yourself, your whole self that you have to convince? Or is there just like a part of yourself that’s going inadequate? Inadequate motherfucker?

[00:10:23] Brett 1: a part of myself. Like there’s a part of me that’s really proud of what I’ve done and what I am. Uh, but there’s, there’s a small nagging, but very loud part of me that is convinced that I will, am not, and never will be adequate. Um, I, I’ve resurfaced the di inspirations. I don’t know if you remember my series,

[00:10:46] Jeff 1: Oh, yes, yes.

[00:10:48] Brett 1: uh, of, of inspirational quotes turned upside down and, uh, one of them is, it’s, it’s true because it’s loud.

[00:10:57] Shout your ever critical inner voice. Um, and it’s not imposter syndrome if it’s true

[00:11:08] Jeff 1: Yeah.

[00:11:09] Brett 1: Um, so

[00:11:10] Jeff 1: Put that motherfucker back in the box.

[00:11:12] Brett 1: Yeah, but I’ve been, I’ve been recycling them. I’m starting to put them out again. But I, uh, I have some ideas for new ones. Uh, I feel like I, the intention is to ruin people’s positive outlooks because I find them annoying. But the fact is the audience that they have is people who commiserate with the, the sentiment.

[00:11:35] Jeff 1: You don’t wanna be the one ruining people’s positive

[00:11:37] Brett 1: No, probably not.

[00:11:39] Jeff 1: but, but, but what you’re doing actually, as you just said, is like you’re giving voice to something. I mean, it’s a, those two, you gave us an example are funny because it’s something that we all experience to some degree or another, for sure.

[00:11:53] Right? For sure. Um, My, uh, my check in is like, you know how when you get strapped into the like rollercoaster or one of those rides, they put you, they put those bar, they put that bar over you and it kind of locks. It’s a little tight. It is for me. I’m a big guy. Um, and then when the, when the rollercoaster first goes, it just like jars you, right?

[00:12:18] Like you, it’s kind of a jolting start, even if it’s just going slow. I feel like I’ve been having that jolt, uh, about 17 times a day. It’s just been a period of one thing after another. Today’s example, uh, flat tire. When I tried to take my kid to school this morning

[00:12:40] Brett 1: I hate flat tires.

[00:12:41] Jeff 1: and eye doctor appointment, cuz there’s just some kind of, not necessarily scary vision stuff, but just not quite easy to understand vision stuff, right?

[00:12:50] These just things keep popping up and, and, uh, oh, here comes Christina.

[00:12:56] Brett 1: Yeah.

[00:12:57] Christina 1: Yeah, I’m entirely too pissed, I think, to be of any use at this podcast to venture. So,

[00:13:02] Jeff 1: You’re not even turning on your video. You’re like, motherfuckers, I am not coming in

[00:13:06] Christina 1: um, I don’t know why it is not, oh, it’s not letting me change it. It’s, it’s wanting to use my phone for some reason. I’m incredibly pissed right now.

[00:13:13] Jeff 1: It’s okay. I mean, if you need to like just take a fucking run up a wall or something, but you’re also welcome here

[00:13:21] Brett 1: Yeah. No. Well, like we, we want you here, but feel free to leave and come back and, and we’ll, we’ll like loop you into this mental health check

[00:13:30] Christina 1: Yeah. My mental health is basically, I’ve spent hours of my life trying to get Taylor Swift tickets and can’t, and now all the tickets are gone, so I’m now going to have to pay. God only knows how much for seats to go with my mom in Atlanta. I don’t know how I’m going to get tickets to Seattle. I did get tickets to New York at least, but motherfucker, I swear to God, I am so fucking pissed right now.

[00:13:55] Jeff 1: So do you need to, to bail and just keep trying

[00:13:58] Christina 1: I’ll check in with you guys later, but this is, this is the Christina angry appearance of Overtired.

[00:14:04] Jeff 1: Should we, should we leave this in or edit it out?

[00:14:05] Christina 1: it in. I don’t care.

[00:14:07] Jeff 1: All right. It’s kind. We’ll leave it

[00:14:08] Brett 1: Yeah. And pop, pop back in anytime

[00:14:10] Christina 1: pop, I’ll pop back in. Hopefully I’ll be able to be successful at some point. All right. Bye.

[00:14:15] Brett 1: All right.

[00:14:16] Jeff 1: All right. Good luck, Christina.

[00:14:17] Brett 1: All right, so we’re stopping and starting on a rollercoaster. You got some eye stuff going on.

[00:14:22] Jeff 1: It’s been a really, uh, hard few weeks because little things have been going wrong constantly, as big things are also going wrong, constantly . So one interesting thing. is there is a nationwide Adderall and thereby vi Vance shortage.

[00:14:46] Brett 1: Oh, really?

[00:14:48] Jeff 1: I can’t get a prescription from mine. I take a pretty small dose, 20 milligrams, although I was planning to jump up a little bit, but, um, friends of mine who have been able to get it have only been able to get it by calling around to all sorts of different

[00:15:06] Brett 1: Oh shit.

[00:15:07] Jeff 1: if they have any.

[00:15:09] Oftentimes finding luck with mom and pop pharmacies, but I would imagine that that’s a phase that will be over quickly once everyone realizes you just need to call the mom and pop pharmacies. And so for me that hasn’t been such a big deal. In fact, it just so happens I had a friend who had stopped taking it and had a bottle of it and um, and so I

[00:15:30] Brett 1: depended on the kindness of strangers before.

[00:15:33] Jeff 1: And so I was able to just kind of re-up that way. Um, but just wanna send, uh, send my, uh, my love and care out to anybody out there for whom it’s a real problem that they can’t, um, get ahold of that particular medication. Cause I know for some that, that it’s, they, it’s, it’s, it’s a lifesaver every day. And I also know that it being sort of an amphetamine, like, you know, you could make bad decisions trying to, uh, fill that.

[00:16:02] Brett 1: here’s my concern. I have a refill coming up on Thursday. If, uh, if I were to go, you know, three to four days without my vivs, when I started again, three, three plus days when I started again, it is almost guaranteed to throw me into a manic episode.

[00:16:23] Jeff 1: Oh.

[00:16:23] Brett 1: Like, uh, drug vacations do not work when you have bipolar.

[00:16:28] So for me to run out is not just a matter of not being able to focus for a few days. It’s a matter of probably losing a, a week or more.

[00:16:38] Jeff 1: I just realized, cuz I’ve, I’ve been, I’ve been noticing the last couple days, I feel pretty well treated for bipolar overall. Um, but I do have periods where I feel like, I’m sure this isn’t how it works, this is how it feels like it’s in there, but it’s not quite getting through. Right. And it pops out in certain ways.

[00:17:03] Right. Wow. I just filled that Amazon cart pretty full, you know, like, I’m just gonna go ahead and close that, like, that kind of stuff, you know? And I re I’m, you’re helping me to realize two things. One, That I should be paying close attention to that, given that I did take about a week off cause I ran out and then started at a higher dose.

[00:17:24] Brett 1: yep. That’ll

[00:17:24] Jeff 1: Um, and also just one more thing for me to worry about with people out there in the world who can’t get it, knowing that that can be, uh, what happens if you, if you have to take a break and come back to it. So that really sucks.

[00:17:39] Brett 1: Well, I mean, and it’s not just like, uh, being on stimulants long term fucks with your. Your brain’s ability to produce things like dopamine and serotonin. Um, it alters the way that your brain produces those chemicals. And when you are suddenly without something that your brain has depended on to produce something like dopamine, um, going on and off of it can greatly affect the levels of those chemicals, which, when you have a chemical imbalance like bipolar, uh, can easily lead to swings in one direction or the other.

[00:18:17] Jeff 1: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay. Wow. That’s a, that’s a bad situation. That shortage. And I don’t, I don’t have a sense of how quickly it’s supposed to come back. Um,

[00:18:29] Brett 1: What’s sad is if you really wanted to, you could probably find cocaine pretty easily, um, which is guaranteed to send you into a manic

[00:18:38] Jeff 1: Well, and this is what I meant when I said, you know, it worries me because it is an amphetamine that it might be if somebody has a history or just knows how to get cocaine because they did it right and is feeling a little desperate, maybe that’s, you know, a risk. And so everybody out there, be strong.

[00:18:57] Brett 1: Be strong. I know exactly what bar to go to in town to find Coke

[00:19:03] Jeff 1: Any bar

[00:19:04] Brett 1: Yeah. Yeah. Like I know where I, I know where all the Coke heads in town hang out. I know exactly what bar to go to and, and I won’t. Um, I don’t, I don’t need that. My life is fucked up enough already.

[00:19:21] Jeff 1: Yeah. So that’s sort of a mental health check in. Um, otherwise there’s just been a lot of activity in my life that is like, I’ve been noticing partly because of medication, but I think also because I have remembered to remind myself how much I have been through in my life and how many hard things I have passed through and possibly hard things I have passed through.

[00:19:47] And I kind of had that talk with myself because there’s so much coming up and I’ve noticed that now when things like the jolt, what would’ve been the jolt? I actually don’t even feel the jolt. I just kind of go, okay, we’re pivoting now. We’ve got a tire to be concerned about, you know? Um, and so , maybe that’s my advice to anybody out there and talking to all you, you’ve already been through so much, you can get through this too.

[00:20:11] Uh, is is my advice.

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nvUltra News!

[00:22:10] Jeff 1: Brett,

[00:22:11] Brett 1: Yes,

[00:22:12] Jeff 1: you have an NV Ultra.

[00:22:14] Brett 1: I do.

[00:22:16] Jeff 1: Is it a big update? A little update? A medium update?

[00:22:18] Brett 1: No, it’s more of like a what the fuck’s going on. Update.

[00:22:23] Jeff 1: You mean, uh, you’re gonna answer that question, not you’re asking it

[00:22:27] Brett 1: Yeah, so, so I had a, I had a meeting with my co-author of Nvi Ultra Fletcher right before this podcast, and we haven’t talked for a couple months and, uh, things have been kind of like, we’ve just been putting out beta updates to keep it from expiring while, while we sort through some shit. Um, Fletcher has a lot going on.

[00:22:54] He is essentially the only person who can, uh, solve some of the bugs. Like he, he, he owns the code for a good portion of NBI Ultra, and I am entirely dependent on him to fix certain things. And, uh, we had a meeting today. We, we went through our checklist of what’s stopping us from releasing our 1.0. Uh, figuring out what, what is.

[00:23:25] A showstopper, like what has to be done before 1.0 and what we can do after an initial release. And we, we narrowed it down to like three things, uh, two bugs for him to solve. One, one thing for me to look further into. And, uh, and then basically testing for store kit, uh, allowing us to have in-app purchases on the Mac app store.

[00:23:54] And, and we’re at 1.0, we can find, I don’t, it’s been years, uh, like this has been in progress for years and, and I was starting to lose hope. Um, it was going the way of, do you remember Bit writer

[00:24:08] Jeff 1: Yes.

[00:24:09] Brett 1: like I had. I keep hitching my wagon to other people’s stars because I’m not confident enough to put out something that people like.

[00:24:19] With an app like Envy, ot, uh, you are going to put your entire knowledge base into that app. And the idea of data loss of something going wrong and you losing your knowledge base is terrifying to me. Oh, like being responsible for other people’s knowledge bases is terrifying, and I’ve never wanted to do that on my own and be solely responsible for someone losing years worth of notes.

[00:24:48] Um, Which is why I’ve always leaned towards having any app I work with, work with a folder full of markdown files that basically can’t be corrupted. Like there’s no way to lose a folder full of markdown files short of losing your entire hard drive. Um, which is the way I use Nvl. It’s the way we built NV Ultra.

[00:25:10] It’s the way that Bit writer was going to be built. Um, but I’ve still wanted help from people that I trusted more than myself, which is why, uh, Fletcher and I teamed up, or why I teamed up with Fletcher. So we’ve got a great product. Anyone on the beta knows that it’s something that you can use every day.

[00:25:31] As a daily driver, I use it every day.

[00:25:33] Jeff 1: vouch for that. I use it every day.

[00:25:35] Brett 1: I love it. I, I, I don’t know what I would do without it. I would probably switch to obsidian, but obsidian, uh, the, the text editor in obsidian is not ideal for my needs. It’s not compatible with services in pop pop clip extensions. And honestly, I just want Nvi Ultra to reach maturity.

[00:25:59] Um, but I

[00:26:00] Jeff 1: So do I hear you’re saying you’re very, very close.

[00:26:03] Brett 1: I, well, I’ve been saying, I’ve been telling everyone we’re very, very close for like a couple years

[00:26:08] Jeff 1: Okay, let’s upgrade to very, very, very close.

[00:26:11] Brett 1: Very, very, very close. Uh, like we have narrowed it down to three to do items and the only one that is a real show stopper is getting the purchase mechanism set up. And honestly, if we run into further trouble with that, I’m just going to put the app out on, like Paddle, for example.

[00:26:33] Uh, skip the Mac App store and just make it something people can purchase directly.

[00:26:38] Jeff 1: was hoping you were gonna say Pirate Bay

[00:26:42] Brett 1: I’m sure you’ll be able to find it, uh, if you, if you care to pirate it. There’s really nothing you can’t pirate.

[00:26:50] Jeff 1: Brett, that’s exciting. I know, I know from knowing you what a journey this has been and, um, and I can’t imagine, but I do know, um, and, and I love the app and I’m really happy for you that you’re very, very, very close.

[00:27:06] Brett 1: very, very, very,

[00:27:08] Jeff 1: Each one being one of the three items you have to tick off. each. Very

[00:27:13] Brett 1: Yes. So as

[00:27:14] Jeff 1: how we’ll do it from now on.

[00:27:15] Brett 1: as we check them off, we’ll get less and less very close

[00:27:20] Jeff 1: Excellent. That’s fantastic,

[00:27:24] Brett 1: Um, so I wrote, I wrote a Nord VPN script.

[00:27:29] Jeff 1: Yeah. Cats.

[00:27:30] Brett 1: Yeah. Do you? And, and we’ve done it before. You’ve heard it before it, I still find it funny.

[00:27:37] Jeff 1: What about a random word generator?

[00:27:40] Brett 1: What do you, what do you got for me?

[00:27:42] Jeff 1: I don’t know. Uh, we’ll, we’ll, word generator. Great. Wilco song? No, that’s a random name. Generator is the Wilco song. All right, let’s see. Random word generator.com. Way to lock that one down, man. Uh, adjectives all adjectives, And, uh, we want three words. Here we go. Uh, generate concerned, insidious, curly

[00:28:20] Brett 1: Okay.

[00:28:21] Jeff 1: Uh, go ahead Brett.

[00:28:23] Brett 1: I am a huge fan of concerned Insidious Curly television,

[00:28:28] Jeff 1: Uh, yeah.

[00:28:29] Brett 1: which honestly, you can’t find a lot of in the us. Um, none of them are available in my region, and if they were, I wouldn’t necessarily want anyone to know about this obsession with concerned insidious curly television.

[00:28:46] Jeff 1: Yeah.

[00:28:46] Brett 1: I’d like to enjoy those sweet conservations and privacy.

Sponsor: NordVPN

[00:28:52] Brett 1: Well, let me introduce Nord vpn. With Nord vpn, I can switch my virtual location on my device with one click and I can access streaming services from over 60 countries at no extra cost. Preser, presumably one of those 60 countries believes in concerned insidious curly television.

[00:29:13] Jeff 1: Well, the acronym, and this is funny, it’s cic, but it’s pronounced sick.

[00:29:17] Brett 1: Sick, uh, believes in

[00:29:19] Jeff 1: sick television. Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:22] Brett 1: Uh, you’ve probably heard that VPNs are great for online protection, but they slow down your internet speed always buffering right before you see some of that insidious curly action. Luckily, Nord VPN is the fastest VPN in the world. I don’t even notice it running, so I can stream and browse online with no buffering or lagging as insidious as it gets.

[00:29:45] I can even play Insidious Curly, help me sick. I can even play sick tv. Games with no pause. Furthermore, nor VPN prevents my internet service provider from bandwidth throttling so I have consistently reliable insidious love. It’s the price of a cup of coffee every month and far less than adopting your own Insidious Curly.

[00:30:13] Jeff 1: Concerned, insidious curly throttling, buffering,

[00:30:19] Brett 1: So it’s a small price to pay for premium cybersecurity and a and access to a vast amount of entertaining content from all over the world. Grab your exclusive Nord VPN deal by going to nor vpn.com/ Overtired to get a huge discount off your Nord VPN Plus. Four months for free. It’s completely risk free with Nords 30 day money back guarantee.

[00:30:44] That’s n o.com/ Overtired. Go grab this amazing deal. That’s a huge discount and four months for free. Start surfing securely@norvpn.com slash Overtired

[00:30:59] Jeff 1: And if you have any questions for Brett, um, about this particular sub-genre, you can reach him at me at concerned Insidious Curly limo.

[00:31:09] Brett 1: limo. You gotta, you gotta grab those limo addresses while you can, that that TLD is gonna go fast.

[00:31:16] Jeff 1: Ha. We did all right with that. That was good.

[00:31:20] Brett 1: We’ve done worse.

[00:31:21] Jeff 1: That was a fun, uh, let’s say it. Sick. Sick. Hmm.

[00:31:26] Brett 1: Why is nor the only one we fuck with? I wanna fuck with all of our sponsor reads. Nord VPN has been the most lenient about letting us just do whatever we want to with it, as long as, as long as we get that call to action just right.

[00:31:42] Jeff 1: Call to action. Yep. Call

[00:31:44] Brett 1: The, uh, the, uh, the CTA

[00:31:47] Jeff 1: Mm.

[00:31:47] Brett 1: as they say in the biz.

[00:31:49] Jeff 1: As they say in the biz.

[00:31:51] Brett 1: Do you, uh, do you know of any other podcast that listeners might be interested in?

[00:31:55] Jeff 1: Oh yeah. Um, yeah. Daddy. Um, one second. . I gotta get back to our

[00:32:03] Brett 1: Okay. I gotta preface, I gotta preface this. Read with, we had to rewrite it because nobody on this podcast was comfortable saying the word daddy as many times as it came up in the, in the copy that they gave us. So Jeff Valiantly rewrote this to say the word daddy less often.

Podcast Swap: Better Call Daddy

[00:32:25] Jeff 1: Our podcast swap this week is with the Better Called Daddy show host Rena Friedman. Watts. Interviews guests like Jerry Springer, man, that’s a name. Uh, judge Alex, nanny Yvonne and Johnny Spoiler.

[00:32:44] Brett 1: No relation.

[00:32:46] Jeff 1: each. each episode. Rena interviews the guest with her father Wayne Friedman, weighing in at the interview’s.

[00:32:54] You can tune in to Better Call Daddy at. You may have guessed it better. Call daddy.com. Thank you. Better call Daddy. Dammit. I still said daddy a lot

[00:33:04] Brett 1: Better call daddy limo.

[00:33:08] Jeff 1: that we, I I don’t know. They probably bought that up. You know, you always try to buy a few of the more popular ones.

[00:33:13] Brett 1: I feel like that’s a completely different site.

[00:33:16] Jeff 1: Um, yeah, Um, sorry, I’m still trying to shake off saying Daddy so much. Um, Brad, I did something kind of fucked.

[00:33:27] Brett 1: Okay.

Taxonomy Corner!

[00:33:28] Jeff 1: it’s been just a wild couple weeks and it’s hard for me to focus. And I needed a project for mornings and for night. Um, and so I decided for one day I was going to, uh, sort all of my books by Library of Congress, catalog number, um, , just to see, uh, if it, um, sort of grouped my books in ways that were interesting to me.

[00:33:51] And, um, and so , that takes a lot, takes a lot of work. You gotta, you might think you just have to go inside the book. That’s true. It’s usually there. But for, I would say a third of the books, what it says is that Library of Congress ideas been applied for, and it’s not actually written in there, so you have to go searching for it.

[00:34:10] And if you’re me, you wanna find the right edition and all this stuff. And so I wrote it on all my books. I wrote, I wrote the Library of Congress, uh, uh, ID on a post-it note. And um, and I sorted them all that way. Which was awesome because I am at a point where I need to get rid of some books and I’ve already gotten rid of a lot.

[00:34:32] But I also am at a point where like I’m kind of just bored with how I organize my books. I just, the ones that you’re not reading, like if you wanna keep 'em, but you’re not reading them, you just, I want, I need to do something. Um, something to keep me from reading them. So

[00:34:45] Brett 1: you, you need some reason, you need to justify keeping them around.

[00:34:49] Jeff 1: need to Yeah.

[00:34:49] Write that too. Um, but it was, I mean, I don’t know if anybody out there with a lot of books thinks this is interesting, but it was actually quite cool to see how it grouped different books. And I was kind of surprised by some things. But I have one little kind of comical tidbit if, I know you expected the comedy was coming soon.

[00:35:08] Brett 1: I knew it would be.

[00:35:09] Jeff 1: There is a, um, black theologian who was a professor of, uh, my partners at Union Theological Seminary in New York City. It’s a very progressive storied seminary. It was awesome to live there. Rafael Warnock actually overlapped with our time there by a year as a student. Um, and, uh, . Yeah, just getting that news hook in. anyway, there’s this, there’s this guy, James Cone, who, um, is like , a really, really well known and beloved radical black theologian. Um, and in the, I think it was the seventies, wrote a book called Black Liberation Theology. Um, and it was an incredible book, kind of merging black power with some theologies that were emerging in Latin America and just generally coming out with something incredibly crisp and badass and, and just powerful as hell.

[00:36:06] Anyway, James Cohen, may he rest in peace. Uh, I was looking at his library of Congress number and the way that the Library of Congress numbers work. Thank you for asking, is you’ll have like, it’ll be like HN 180 3, A 44, you know, and then the year, right? Like, and the letters at the top tell you a subject and a, and a like, you know, whatever the next level of subject.

[00:36:29] But the author’s name is represented by, The, the, I can’t believe I’m doing this. The author’s name is represented by the, the first letter of the author’s last name, and then a number. Okay. So I look at James Cohen’s book and I look at his library of Congress number and I look at his author id, which is C 6 6 6.

[00:36:51] How awesome is that?

[00:36:53] Brett 1: Oh no. For a theologian when I was a kid, um, I’m talking. 5, 6, 7 years old. I, I collected rocks. That was my thing. I was gonna grow up, I was gonna be a geologist, and I collected rocks. And, uh, my parents to encourage my endeavors, would let me hang out with geologists, which four people who believed the earth is 6,000 years old,

[00:37:22] Jeff 1: Yeah,

[00:37:22] Brett 1: bold, a bold move on their part.

[00:37:25] Um, but, uh,

[00:37:27] Jeff 1: tell the truth.

[00:37:28] Brett 1: right? So, but I had a collection of, I don’t, I don’t know exactly how many, but less than a hundred, less than a hundred specimens. Um, but I had collected, I had collected crystals and, and, and rocks from all over the world. And I decided I was going to create a cataloging system. And like the first two letters were a country of origin.

[00:37:54] And then there was like a four digit. Uh, number that represented like region.

[00:38:00] Jeff 1: whoa, whoa, whoa. How old were you when you were coming up with your own naming convention?

[00:38:04] Brett 1: I’m gonna say six.

[00:38:06] Jeff 1: Fuck. Okay, go ahead.

[00:38:08] Brett 1: It was the same year, it was the same year I started programming when I was six years old. And I developed this, it was, I think ultimately like an 11 digit serial number for each of these rocks in my collection. And I would carefully on the back of the, of the specimen, like put down like a, a layer of white out in like an oval and then, and then paint in the serial number for the rock.

[00:38:33] And then I would have an index card catalog

[00:38:37] Jeff 1: Oh

[00:38:37] Brett 1: of all of my specimens. So I could look at a rock and I could flip through the catalog and locate all of the information on that particular specimen. And honestly, Like it wasn’t necessary. I could have just put a card with each one in its little display case.

[00:38:54] But the idea of developing a system, a catalog system for my collection was so appealing to me. I got, I really got off on like the whole idea of catalog systems,

[00:39:08] Jeff 1: Hold on. Hold on listeners, everybody. You too, Danny. Glamour. Pay attention. Let’s all go back in time and give this little boy a big hug. That is amazing. That is amazing.

[00:39:24] Brett 1: and then they sent me to a, they sent me to a school for the gifted and talented, and my life really took off from there.

[00:39:32] Jeff 1: Did you, um, do you have those anymore?

[00:39:35] Brett 1: I have some of the, I have some of the specimens. Yeah. And some of them still have the old catalog numbers on them, but I’ve long since lost track of the cataloging system, so the numbers are gibberish to me now.

[00:39:46] Jeff 1: have them in your house? Will you take a picture for the show? Uh, image

[00:39:51] Brett 1: I’ll see what I can find. Yeah.

[00:39:53] Jeff 1: That is fantastic, man. I love that. I love that so much. And that it coin that it coincided with you starting programming. I mean, my God. So now, like, I remember once having a long conversation with you about tagging, and now I, if we were to do that again, I, I would just couldn’t help but see that little boy in you as you talked about it, not just the like adult computer genius.

[00:40:20] Brett 1: Well, and I ran, I ran into the same problems when I started programming, uh, which was like, I had friends, uh, who were taking calculus in third grade. Um, like I went to a school for gifted and talented and I always felt like the imposter there. Um, and these friends would like, I’m working with logo, you remember logo.

[00:40:46] Jeff 1: I mean, I know what it is, but I, I didn’t

[00:40:48] Brett 1: And I’m drawing like floor plans for a house with, with logo, and they’re creating fractals and they’re teaching me like, well, it’s obviously if you do this in this pattern, it’s gonna create a and it’s blowing my mind at, you know, seven years old. And, uh, like I’ve always suffered from this. Like, I can do this, but I can never do it as well as the people around me.

[00:41:14] Um, so that started really young for me.

[00:41:17] Jeff 1: Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, I hear you man.

[00:41:22] Brett 1: I have a friend who composed, or, or not composed, but played, um, Beethoven on an eight bit sound card. Um, like monophonic, like, so to make it sound like you were playing a chord, you had to sequence. Multiple notes in, in rapid enough succession that it was, that it would audibly sound like a chord. Um, which, which you can find on like old Atari games and everything.

[00:41:54] But,

[00:41:55] Jeff 1: bring,

[00:41:56] Brett 1: but it takes, it takes some genius. And I have a friend who pulled off like an entire symphony on an eight bit sound card. I’ve always been surrounded by people way smarter than me,

[00:42:08] Jeff 1: Uh, see, I, you know what though, , and you’re, you’re making me think about myself here because I, I have said exactly that so many times and it’s interesting to me on the other side of that where I kind of wanna be, Are they way smarter than you though? , right? Like really

[00:42:24] Brett 1: sincerely, sincerely, I, yes.

[00:42:27] Jeff 1: I know. Sometimes it is just the truth. I, I, I definitely get it. I definitely get it.


[00:42:34] Jeff 2: Should we do some gratitude?

[00:42:37] Brett 2: Yeah, let’s do some gratitude.

[00:42:39] Jeff 2: You go first.

[00:42:41] Brett 2: Okay. I will start. Um, affinity, you know, like Affinity photo publisher designer, uh, they, they make, uh, all of the amazing, uh, Adobe. Uh, competition, uh, for like Photoshop and Illustrator. Uh, they just came out with version two of all three of their apps, uh, designer and photo and publisher, and they’re, they’re good.

[00:43:07] My pick for today is, is Affinity Photo two. Um, there, there are new features in all of them, but Affinity Photo two adds, like they, so the layer palette. It was always workable, but there were always things about it that bugged me in version one. Um, like it was hard to move, uh, child layers around. Uh, you couldn’t tell the difference at a glance between like a, a mask layer and an adjustment layer.

[00:43:34] Um, like they fixed all of that completely reworked. The, the layers palette, they added non-destructive raw editing, so you can reprocess a raw photo at any time. Um, like cool stuff like live masks for adjustment layers, uh, and you can apply adjustment layers to like hue and luminosity ranges, which is, there’s some really cool effects there.

[00:43:59] Uh, live mesh warp, like they’ve always had me warp, but it’s been a little annoying.

[00:44:04] Jeff 2: What is Mesh Warp?

[00:44:05] Brett 2: basically imagine you put a grid over a photo and then you drag points in the grid and to warp them and it adjusts the photo smoothly underneath

[00:44:16] Jeff 2: Cool. I’ve never done that.

[00:44:18] Brett 2: for, great for like aligning, aligning things in a, in a photo that are need more than just a rotation where you actually have to like shift like liquid, liquid warping.

[00:44:29] Um, and they added WebP export finally. Uh, but there’s, it’s a ton of new stuff. It’s totally, I think it’s like for a hundred dollars you can upgrade all three applications. Um, and, and so I, I did, I’m exploring them right now. I have only dug into photo cause that’s the one I use the most. Uh, but yeah, it’s, it’s a great

[00:44:52] Jeff 2: The, there’s a, there’s a thing about their iPad app and there’s an amazing image of a zebra and they’ve made it look like a large balloon is pulling its stripes off. I was like, that is some, that is some deep thinking, man.

[00:45:06] Brett 2: Their, their marketing materials, like the, the stuff they put together using their own apps, it, it sells itself. Like they’re such amazing compositions that Yeah. You’re like, oh, if I could have an app that could make that, I’ll pay

[00:45:22] Jeff 2: That’s awesome.

[00:45:23] Brett 2: it’s like 60 bucks per app. And compared to what you pay for, like Adobe Creative Suite, uh, they’re, yeah, they’re a steal.

[00:45:31] They’re so good.

[00:45:32] Jeff 2: so you’re a developer. I’m, I’m wondering what it must be like to put out, uh, version two of all three of your seriously major apps at a time.

[00:45:44] Brett 2: Oh

[00:45:45] Jeff 2: I don’t remember. I don’t feel like I’ve seen that happen often.

[00:45:48] Brett 2: No, probably not. But they also link their apps together, such that, like right now you can drag a publisher file into a photo document and then change the page. Like you could apply like a, so you put a magazine into your photo document, and then you apply a meshwork to like curl a page up.

[00:46:10] Then with that live meshwork applied, you can change which page is showing in the, in the, uh, publisher document. Um, so everything like ties together such that they almost have

[00:46:22] Jeff 2: Almost have to, yeah.

[00:46:23] Brett 2: release it all at once yet, but it’s a huge undertaking. I don’t know how many developers they have on staff, but it’s, it’s gotta be a significant amount.

[00:46:33] Jeff 2: That is amazing. That is amazing, man. Can I do a, a quick follow up on a, on a past, uh, gratitude

[00:46:41] Brett 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:42] Jeff 2: Last night I met, um, somebody had dinner with somebody who writes, um, Marvel Comics. And she, um, also is a ya uh, novelist. And, and I asked her cause I just had a feeling, anybody who’s doing all that kind of stuff, I’m like, you s Scribner, don’t you,

[00:47:00] And she’s like, yep, I sure do. And uh, what was fun is something I only know from your previous podcast, uh, Systematic, is that, that is, is or at least was built by a single person in,

[00:47:12] Brett 2: Yeah, yeah,

[00:47:14] Jeff 2: I

[00:47:14] Brett 2: yeah. He has, he has a, he has a developer on staff

[00:47:18] Jeff 2: Okay. Okay.

[00:47:19] Brett 2: that, but yeah, the original Scribner 1.0 was developed by a single developer, and it is such a complete and, and really complex application that even with two people, it’s still an outstanding piece of

[00:47:34] Jeff 2: And what’s so unique about it is like of all the nerd software that you know, might come up from the three of us on gratitude, um, that is the one that man, it’s reach is so far. Like people that don’t otherwise do any kind of Mac nerd stuff or just like nerd software, they are all over Scribner.

[00:47:55] Brett 2: Because it’s a pro level app, it’s not, it’s not what you would consider indie software, even though it very much

[00:48:01] Jeff 2: Right, right.

[00:48:02] Brett 2: but it, but like professional writers rely on Scribner, and it has quite a good reputation in the writing community.

[00:48:10] Jeff 2: amazing. So, and I have other stuff like that. Most of my gratitude is just follow.

[00:48:15] Jeff 1: One is Christina had talked about vhs, a tool from Charm bracelet, which makes such good stuff like bubble gum, um, which allows you to write terminal gifts as code. Um, and somebody took that and recreated sci-fi terminals from movies we all love, including Matrix, um, including Jurassic Park War games, of course Alien.

[00:48:43] And it just is such a cool way to show you what VHS is capable of, but it’s also. Just fun on its own. Um, and so I wanna put that, that was Christina’s pick VHS a couple weeks ago. Um, and then for me, like I, I just wanna like shout out again to Firefox containers, um, starting with their Facebook container, which just like allows you to open Facebook work in Facebook.

[00:49:11] I mean, sorry, open Facebook. Look at Facebook without Facebook being able to get its dirty. Little fingers all over everything else you’ve opened.

[00:49:20] Brett 1: Filthy pause.

[00:49:21] Jeff 1: Filthy paws. Um, and what’s so cool about it is they took, they went from there to letting you create any kind of container. So like I have a container for my banking stuff and I have a container for, um, one G Gmail account, which means I can have another container for another Gmail account.

[00:49:38] And so I can have all this stuff open. But the cool thing is you can make it so that whenever you go to that um, URL in the future, it automatically opens in the right container. And that is just like such a beautiful thing. I’m so grateful to them. Cause I’ve been on Facebook more lately than I have in the past, and it’s just so nice to know that I’ve got it in a little maximum security prison.

[00:50:00] And I can, if I want Zuckerberg to come out, I can let him out. But, uh, otherwise he stays in. You’re here.

[00:50:08] Christina 2: I’m here. Yes.

[00:50:10] Brett 1: wanted to throw in that I watched, uh, an entire day and a half of GitHub Universe and it was a delight to see you on screen doing like a real Today show kind of vibe. Between, between all of the talks. It it was it You were very good. I was very impressed. I could not be on as much as you were on for a day and a half.

[00:50:35] It was exhausting. Just watching you like that would be so emotionally draining for me.

[00:50:42] Christina 2: And, and thank you for saying that. It was, it was really fun. But yeah, no, it was sort of exhausting. And then it was what was great about the event and what I loved about it, but it also just added to the exhaustion, would be I would step off stage and try to kind of, like, I couldn’t, I really couldn’t attend sessions unfortunately, but I’d walk around and interact with people. And I would run into people that I knew who, some of 'em I haven’t seen in years and then, you know, immediately have to get into conversations and stuff. And so it was just like, you’re like literally never able to, like we had a green room and, and we did go in that from time to time, but for the most part, like, yeah, you’re just not ever allowed a time to

[00:51:16] Brett 1: it would be fun to do one or the other, to to host or to greet, you know, all your old friends. Uh, but to do both. That’s a, that’s a real playful.

[00:51:27] Christina 2: No, it was a lot, but it was really fun. And I’m glad you watched and I, I’m glad. Um, did you, uh, did you like the content? I thought there was some really good sessions and stuff in there.

[00:51:35] Brett 1: Yeah, it was excellent. I, I love GitHub. I love everything GitHub’s doing.

[00:51:40] Christina 2: Yeah, I, I do too. Uh uh okay. So my pick of the week actually is going to be, and I’m sorry that this is an ad, but it’s not cuz it’s cool GitHub Code Spaces because it’s now free for everybody for 60 hours a month. So code Spaces is actually incredibly cool. So the idea is basically it’s more than just vs.

[00:51:58] In your browser, because there are some other things that can kind of do that, but it’s basically like a whole dev environment in your browser or in your local dev editor or on your iPad or whatever the case may be. So the idea is basically using the remote, um, uh, development extension, which is what this is based on, which is been probably the single biggest like, game changing developer thing in my life, basically, I have to say.

[00:52:24] Like, so you remember, well, obviously you remember you would, but, but, uh, listeners might remember, uh, you know, text mate had like the, the remote text mate extension that was in Ruby where you could. Basically be in a terminal and then you could just type in, you know, mate, whatever. And then you could open your files and your terminal and whatnot in Text Main.

[00:52:42] That was great. Okay, so what if you could do that, but in addition, you could also have access to all the files in a project. You could have all like the build environment variables. You could run something, you could test it, and it didn’t have to locally be on your machine. You didn’t have to have the dependencies installed on your machine.

[00:53:00] You didn’t have to have Docker

[00:53:02] Brett 1: have to run a container. Yeah,

[00:53:03] Christina 2: have, yeah, you didn’t have to have Docker set up, you didn’t have to deal with Kubernetes. You didn’t even necessarily have to be on like the same platform of what you were building on. Um, but you could still do it from like either your local vs code instance or if you wanted to, you could do it from a web browser.

[00:53:20] Well, that is, um, a GitHub code spaces. And so the idea is you can create a dev container JSON file, and that’s an open standard. A lot of people are using like jet brains, that’s using it. A lot of people are using it to basically in your repository, set up all your project files and basically be like, this is the, um, the, the, the container essentially, or the VM that I would want this project to run in and how I would wanna access it.

[00:53:46] Um, but you can also do really cool things. Like you can say, these are the extensions that I wanna have automatically installed, and these are like the settings that I wanna have automatically imported. These are the dot files that I wanna have automatically using. And they can be done like on a per repository basis.

[00:54:03] And then you spin it up, you use it. It is, it is happening on the cloud, but the way that it happens is actually remarkably fast. So like what’s happening locally on. Feels native. And then any of, like, if you’re, you know, running tests or, or builds or whatever, that’s what’s happening on the cloud, meaning that you can, like, we use this at GitHub and the GitHub, GitHub repository is like, we use like 64 cores for it because it’s a massive monorepo.

[00:54:30] And you know, this would be the sort of thing that if you were trying to do a build on your own machine, even on an M one, it could be a really long process. Um, and, and also would be something that you wouldn’t necessarily wanna have to like, dedicate all the resources on your machine to, right. Like, okay, I’m just trying to do a build.

[00:54:49] I have other shit I need to do.

[00:54:51] Brett 1: yeah. Cuz you’re only work working with a fraction of it.

[00:54:53] Christina 2: Exactly. Exactly. And, and this is where code spaces I think is really great for a lot of scenarios. A, for really big things where you might need more, more power. But b I think like one of the ways that we’ve seen a lot of people use this, and this is why I’m really excited.

[00:55:06] We now have kind of a free plan available for everyone, which we’ve worked really hard, um, to, to get and, and that we, we hope will be competitive and that people will like, um, is that like, if you’re a, in the classroom, I think it’s really beneficial, but whether you’re like, you know, high school or college students or if you’re doing, you know, like, like upskilling or people who are learning to code, like, it’s a lot easier to give people kind of like a preset environment to play with

[00:55:32] Brett 1: Yeah, for sure.

[00:55:33] Christina 2: Hey, for this workshop, like this is actually a great example.

[00:55:36] Like, even if you’re a well, like adept developer, if you’re taking a workshop and the first half of it, like oftentimes they’ll give you pre-homework where they’re like, Hey, you’re gonna need to, yeah, you’re gonna need to set up this environment and you’re going to need to have all this stuff done before we even get started.

[00:55:52] If instead you. You know, go to a repo and click an open Code spaces button. That changes so many things. Um, but it also, I think, like, will make it easier, like if you wanna commit something to a code base, right? Like if you are wanting to contribute something to someone’s open source project. But again, I don’t necessarily wanna have to install all the dependencies and containerize everything that’s going on just so I can make a commit.

[00:56:20] Like, I might actually want to make some changes, but I don’t wanna have to necessarily set all that stuff up, right? Like I, I think that, um, it’s, uh, there are a lot of ways where both, like for people of developers of all backgrounds can really take advantage of it. I’ve been using this since, um, it was called Visual Studio Code Spaces.

[00:56:40] And, um, before that, a lot of us at Microsoft were using the remote code extension, which is what all of this is kind of based off of to run things like. In VMs or in our closets or whatnot, like on like raspberry pies or on servers or other things to basically be like, we were like trying to figure out, hey, how can we get co um, code, uh, visual Studio code running on, uh, a web browser?

[00:57:03] So I’ve been using a variation of this for a number of years now. I love it. And then the, the thing that we announced at, uh, GitHub Universe is that Code Spaces is now free for all. Um, it’s used to only be available to, uh, teams and like enterprises, and now it’s available to everybody for 60 hours a month.

[00:57:21] And so, um, if you wanna have a more powerful vm, if you wanna use it for more time, then you pay. But, uh, it’s free for everybody for 60 hours a month. And, uh, uh, that was a really, really long, uh, kind of ad, but, but, but I also, I think it’s really cool

[00:57:37] Brett 1: For those, for those who missed GitHub Universe, that was your taste of, of the, of the brilliance that came out of GitHub Universe this year. Yeah, that was, that was an exciting announcement. Yeah. I actually haven’t played with code spaces.

[00:57:52] Christina 2: think you would love it. I think you would love

[00:57:54] Brett 1: even like Oracle doesn’t even have an enterprise account.

[00:57:57] Uh, we, we have whatever we, we pay per seat for

[00:58:04] Christina 2: Pro for teams,

[00:58:05] Brett 1: Yeah. But, but we don’t have, uh, we don’t have enterprise. So I haven’t played with this yet. Uh, definitely gonna explore it now though.

[00:58:13] Christina 2: Yeah. No, I think you should, I think you’ll like it a lot. Um, like I said, like it just, it makes, just doing it with small things a lot easier. Um, what I love about it is I switch between computers a lot and I don’t always know what I have locally set up. And, um, like I, I did some demos of code spaces when I was in Tel Aviv, and I, I hadn’t been at GitHub very long when I did that and I like showed off, I was like, Hey, this is a.net project.

[00:58:41] I don’t have.net installed. I like opened up my terminal, showed them it is not installed. Then using BS code, like I didn’t even use the web browser. Like I opened a code space instance and uh, then I was like using the terminal in code spaces and I was like, look, here it is. You know, like all this

[00:59:01] Brett 1: That’s awesome.

[00:59:02] Christina 2: So it’s really cool. Uh, I think you’ll like it a lot. Um, it’s um, it, it, it’s, it’s good stuff. So yeah, code spaces is my pick of the week.

[00:59:10] Brett 1: Awesome. All right. Well, you, uh, you showed up for what’s, uh, 20 minutes of the

[00:59:17] Christina 2: 10 minutes, 11 minutes.

[00:59:19] Brett 1: 10, 11. Jesus. All right, . So you have no idea what else we’ve talked

[00:59:25] Christina 2: I have no clue. But I will listen. I will listen.

[00:59:29] Brett 1: did you listen to last week’s with, uh, with, with Brian and Quinn?

[00:59:33] Christina 2: no I didn’t, but I will go back and

[00:59:35] Brett 1: I, I, I recommend checking it out. It was, it’s, it’s two hosts from the Technically Queer Pro podcast.

[00:59:42] Uh, you, you’ve met Brian before. Quinn was a delight. Uh, definitely. If anyone missed that last episode, it was, it was just me out of the three cohosts, uh, with, with the technically queer podcast or two of them. Yeah, it, it, it, I think it came out great. I loved it. Um, but thanks for showing up. I’m sorry you didn’t get, uh, all the tickets you were hoping for

[01:00:08] Christina 2: Well, I got the ones for New York, which that’s great, but I really wanted to go with my mom and it is now going to cost us significantly more money.

[01:00:20] Brett 1: I’m so sorry.

[01:00:21] Christina 2: Yeah. So instead

[01:00:22] Brett 1: but it’s gonna work out. It’s gonna work out.

[01:00:24] Christina 2: it will, it’s just instead of paying $1,500, I might wind up paying like $3,600 and

[01:00:32] Brett 1: insane.

[01:00:33] Christina 2: it is insane. But, But at least I got floor seats in New York and the, the, the New York show Phoebe Bridges is opening for.

[01:00:43] So that’s exciting. Yeah.

[01:00:47] Brett 1: I still haven’t checked her out. I still need to, I still need to familiarize myself

[01:00:52] Christina 2: thought you had, I thought, I thought, I thought I thought you

[01:00:54] Brett 1: No, I told you I would and I never did.

[01:00:57] Christina 2: Okay. Cuz like you, she of all of them, like she actually is your shit. Like unabashedly. Like unabashedly,

[01:01:05] Brett 1: I will, I will redouble my efforts. Awesome. Well, thanks for showing up for a little bit, Christina. Appreciate it.

[01:01:12] Christina 2: you. And, uh, yeah, sorry for just coming in hot. You like literally got me when I was like at my hottest, I was like at my hottest. I was like, motherfucker.

[01:01:22] Brett 1: if, if Jeff hasn’t edited that part out at this point, uh, I, I feel like it’s a, it’s a good comedic break from the mental health

[01:01:30] Christina 2: Honestly, it kind of is. Honestly, if he, if he doesn’t edit it out, honestly, it should just be like a bonus thing that we put on. I. And Christina appears and brings chaos completely changes the vibe.

[01:01:43] Brett 1: chaotic, evil. Um, hey, get some sleep.

[01:01:47] Christina 2: him sleep right.

[01:01:48] Intro-Outro: system is going down low.