296: Thought Bubbles in the Brain Matrix

We all know that journaling can be so good for us. Why is it so hard? We talked about what works for us and why. Then Brett tells us about the resurrection of his tool Gather. Have you heard the Good News?

Meet Mindbloom. When it comes to mental health, sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough. Maybe itโ€™s time to check out a guided ketamine therapy program — Mindbloom can help. After only 2 sessions, 87% of Mindbloom clients reported improvements in depression, and 85% reported improvements in anxiety. Right now, Mindbloom is offering Overtired listeners $100 off your first six-session program when you sign up at mindbloom.com/overtired and use promo code overtired at checkout.

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Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.

Transcript

Thought Bubbles in the Brain Matrix

[00:00:00] Brett:

[00:00:01] Welcome to Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren and Jeff Severns Guntzel. How’s it going, Christina?

[00:00:12] Christina: Pretty good. Pretty good.

[00:00:14] Brett: And Jeff, how are you?

[00:00:15] Jeff: I’m good.

[00:00:16] Brett: I tried something new this week, instead of just saying how you guys doing and expecting the two of you to vye for dibs. I split it up. I learned that from Jeff. Uh, when, one time when we had multiple people on, I noticed that he very specifically like duck, duck, goosed people into talking. Jeff is a professional interviewer.

[00:00:40] Title First, Episode Second

[00:00:40] Brett: I have a lot to learn from him. Um, so I wanna start off by just saying that I really wanna title this episode, thought bubbles in the brain matrix. And I would like to tell you why. Um, so my girlfriend Elle uh, she sometimes [00:01:00] has trouble remembering words. I don’t know if related to ASD or just a personality quirk, but she can put together like pictures of the things she wants to say.

[00:01:11] And she was trying to ask me about mind mapping, but she couldn’t remember the word mind mapping. And what she came up with by way of explanation was “thought bubbles in the brain matrix.” And, and I was able to put that together. I got that. I understood it. So here by explaining that I now I’ve now given us a reason to call the episode “thought bubbles in the brain matrix,” and immediately explained it to listeners who like maybe tuned in, because it was such a great title.

[00:01:41] Jeff: That’s great. This happens to me all the time. It’s like, I, the way I describe it is like I reach into the word bag and I just grab the wrong fucking word. So I just say whatever comes to mind, like “heffleprint”, like what it’s like, there are times when I’ll ask for something and I’ll just say that.

[00:01:58] And, and, and my [00:02:00] wife’s at the point where she can just be like, oh, you mean a spoon? Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:04] Brett: Well,

[00:02:04] Christina: That’s awesome.

[00:02:05] Brett: It’s interesting because I, it’s probably true of everybody, but I know that between Elle and I, and this is, uh, the first time I’ve ever had such clear communication with a partner. Um, but we have very different needs in the way things are said to us. Um, and we try to accommodate each other’s need, like, I, for example, if I, if I offer an idea and your first response is here’s what’s wrong with it.

[00:02:35] I hear that as like a no, instead of like, uh, that’s a good idea. Let’s see what we could do with it. I, I just hear that as a no. So I need like the first thing out of your mouth to be like, oh, that’s a great idea here’s a problem we might run into instead of jumping straight to the here’s, what’s wrong with the idea, uh, which is that’s the way Elle thinks, like she just accepts that, okay this is the idea we’re [00:03:00] working with, let’s start figuring out how to do it.

[00:03:03] Jeff: Not a shocker, Brett your love language is “yes, and.”

[00:03:09] Brett: Not a shocker. Yeah. Do you guys wanna do some mental health?

[00:03:15] Christina: Definitely.

[00:03:16] What are people for? (Mental Health Corner)

[00:03:16] Jeff: Hey man, you guys wanna go in the back room and do some mental?

[00:03:18] Christina: I like it.

[00:03:19] Brett: I got the good stuff. I got the

[00:03:20] Christina: I got the good stuff. Yeah.

[00:03:21] Brett: Who wants to start?

[00:03:23] Jeff: I could start. I have been just over the last week. There’s been just a lot going on. So we, we went to a video game convention, my boys and I, and their friends. I rented a couple of hotel rooms, using points. And so we stayed in the hotel where the convention was. It’s kinda like a 24-hour thing.

[00:03:42] I get outta that is being able to go downstairs at like 11 o’clock and play whatever pinball machines I want for a long time, for free, which is really wonderful. But also I was like responsible for, you know, like I, I would set up like a sandwich buffet for these kids, like every day, a couple times a day.

[00:03:57] And like just generally tracking these [00:04:00] two age groups around 13 and around 16. And, um, it was wonderful. And it was like, it was a lot to do, which was, but it was totally great. And then that was three days. And then the next day we went to the State Fair here in Minnesota for the whole day. Um, and then yesterday was like my first day back and I remembered I had scheduled with a good friend to take a walk.

[00:04:23] And, uh, I did that thing that happens to me all the time where I’m just like, oh man, I’m not ready for this right now. And I like came so close to canceling so many times, but I’ve been challenging myself lately to say yes, more often and trust that. Yes in general on balance, uh, makes me happier than no.

[00:04:45] And so I, I just decided not to cancel, which he didn’t even know was a yes, cuz it was already planned, you know, but that is, that is my way. And we had just a lovely night, we had a lovely dinner and a lovely walk in this nature reserve around here. And [00:05:00] then at the same time, a neighbor of ours who we are really close friends with, we have something called the border bar.

[00:05:05] It’s at our fence between our two houses. We meet there even in the winter when it’s really cold and, and we just kind of call it like it’s border bar time and we bring some drinks, you know, if someone’s not drinking, we bring some bubbly water. Otherwise someone makes cocktails whatever. And uh, and so they had invited us, uh, over for drinks in the hangout.

[00:05:23] And I wanted to say no, cause I was like Ahaha, but I was like, no, say yes, say yes. And, uh, anyway, so I’m just like, I find that when I say yes, I really never regret it. Like I might end up a little more tired than I would’ve liked to be. But when I say yes, even though I think I’d rather be alone is actually like the thinking I’d rather be alone is usually an indicator that probably I could use to hang out with some people, like when those people are like safe people, right.

[00:05:50] Like, you know, it’s gonna be pleasant. Like if anything, you’ll just have to leave earlier, then maybe they would want you to, or whatever. So anyway, I’m kind of playing with [00:06:00] I’m, I’m reminding myself of that. I go through phases of this or remind myself like yeah, just say yes. Just say yes. It’s probably gonna be good.

[00:06:06] Brett: heard the exact opposite from people who habitually say yes, who have to practice saying no. Um, and I’m a person like it took me until I was maybe 35 years old before I realized that if someone asked me to do something, even if it sounded cool, I was allowed to say no, uh, and conserve my energy and my time, because I would take on like every project, every crazy idea someone came to me with, I’m like, yeah, we can do that. Let’s fucking figure it out. Um, and, and I wore myself very thin doing that, which is, I guess, different than like saying yes to a social engagement, which I could probably do more of.

[00:06:47] Jeff: Yeah, no, I mean, where you’re at is more like that really important thing where you have to recognize that when you say yes, you’re saying yes to one thing, you’re saying no to a bunch of things. And often those things are your own peace of mind, [00:07:00] relationships, you know, things that are good for you.

[00:07:02] But for me, it’s almost comically, not that problem. It’s really just about like, when I say yes, what I’m saying no to is like essentially hiding. I am someone who for the most part will never be plagued by the problem of saying yes, too much.

[00:07:19] Brett: I have no one to say yes to. I have after 44 years I have essentially whittled away everyone who asks me to do social things. I can’t remember the last time that I had a yes or no to offer because no one invites me to do anything anymore. And I’m kind of okay with that. I’m, I’m very okay with that, but maybe I should get out.

[00:07:44] Christina: I was gonna say, I think that like that, cuz, cuz I think you’re exactly right. Like there’s the difference between agreeing, you know, to take on work stuff and the social things and to your point, like I I’m with you, Jeff. I’m somebody who I’m social and I go out with people, but I also have a tendency sometimes, especially the last two [00:08:00] years, cuz last two years have been terrible for all of us to like put off. You’re like, oh, you know, I can’t do it right now. Let let’s, we’re definitely gonna get together in the future, you know, to just like find an excuse to not do something. And I find like for my mental health, it’s actually really important for me to get out and do things because as you noted, Brett, like what’ll happen is, is if you say no too many times, people just stop asking and, and that, you know, is, is not great.

[00:08:25] So for me, this is something that I, I discovered, you know, that I wasn’t like, you know, as a younger kid, you know, younger teenager, it wasn’t something that I recognize as being really important to me, like being social is something that’s actually really important for my mental health and having actual time with other people.

[00:08:44] So, but it

[00:08:45] Brett: Like face-to-face time, not just Twitter time.

[00:08:47] Christina: Exactly. And Twitter time helps too, but really face to face time,

[00:08:50] Brett: I’m really good. At the Twitter time. Face-to-face. I don’t see anybody.

[00:08:54] Christina: My mental health, I find. Really is improved when, when I have like a more active in-person kind of social life. [00:09:00] And when you’re married and, you know, older, like it’s harder to make friends. And a lot of times, like, you know, the person you spend the most time with is your partner and that’s not great because at least for, for me, like, I can’t just have like just one person that, you know, I, I see all the time, like it’s actually really important for me – and I find that I, I do better in a lot of regards when I’m around other people. And so I have to similar to you, Jeff, I have to like, remind myself, like, no say yes, do these things go out because you might have some anxiety around it, you might have some other things, but it’s actually fundamentally really important to do, you know, that your overall mental health is gonna be a lot better. And, and it’s just, you know, once you do it, like you’ll appreciate it. And then it’ll like be easier to like, understand, okay, well, what are the things that I need to say no to and what are the things that, you know, I, I can, that’ll actually be really good if I go ahead and do.

[00:09:51] Jeff: Yeah, for sure. I also have this thing where like I get feedback from people that they enjoy being around me and, [00:10:00] and I don’t always believe that that could be true. And I think that there’s this. There’s this sort of weird, um, self-compassion chess move in, actually going out and, and giving of myself as well as receiving from people that is like, oh, it’s okay. I, I, I like to be seen, I like to be appreciated. I like to be able to offer up whatever it is I can offer up in relationship with this person. Um, just as much as I, I love receiving from them what they have to offer, and it’s kind of a silly kind of upside down thing, but I’ve, I’ve sometimes thought like I’ve played it out and like, you know, if I only stayed home and if, if everybody that tries to get me out completely gave up, which some people have I would, I think I would just like, I would not be on a good path.

[00:10:59] Brett: Yeah, [00:11:00] I feel attacked. To be honest, like there are a couple people in this town that I enjoy, um, as, as conversationalists. Um, but nobody that I feel as close to as some of my online friends, uh, friends that I see maybe once a year there’s, there’s nobody in like driving distance that I really crave seeing, or when I see them feel like I’ve really uh, spent my time well, and I know what that feels like. I know what it feels like to have a satisfying social encounter and to feel very enriched by that. I don’t currently have any friends and that’s not to say there’s nobody cool in this town, cuz there really are. I’ve just, I haven’t forged the relationships and as Christina noted, uh, once you’re older and married, it’s hard to make new friends. Um, [00:12:00] I know they’re out there. I know I’ve had good conversations. Since I quit drinking again it’s been harder to like most of the good conversations I’ve had in this town have been not drunken conversations, but have happened in bars and have happened around alcohol.

[00:12:17] And there’s a new bar in town, uh, like a hipster bar, uh, opened by old people. And I think it would be like a hipster bar for old people,

[00:12:26] Jeff: like us,

[00:12:27] Brett: but it looks like the kind of place that I would be totally comfortable going, ordering a seltzer water or a Heineken Zero Zero, and just sitting and being social with people. Uh, without it feeling like the darker a bar is the more I need to drink. If it’s a well lit bar it’s basically a coffee house and, and I can, I can totally sit there.

[00:12:51] So I’m, I’m kind of curious to try reviving that, but yeah, there, there’s just nobody here [00:13:00] that is truly rewarding for me to hang out with.

[00:13:04] Jeff: I know one from Winona.

[00:13:06] Brett: Is he in Winona though?

[00:13:07] Jeff: No he’s from Winona.

[00:13:10] Brett: All the good people leave. There’s a guy here named Kalin Kalin Larson, who is an awesome guy, super smart. Um, he he’s a hacker. He makes crazy cool stuff. Um, he got obsessed with, uh, label printers and turned it into like a full-time business writing software because all label printer software sucks.

[00:13:36] Jeff: it’s terrible.

[00:13:37] Brett: It’s awful. And he fixed it. He like made, uh, like boutique label printer software that he sells for a hefty price, to people who actually wanna use their label printers. Um, and he’s, he’s, he’s brilliant. He’s one of my favorite people. He really is. I just, I’m not good at, I, I [00:14:00] really only make friends with other ADHD, people who converse the way that I do and who just mirror my quirks in a way that’s very comfortable for me. Um, and I don’t always realize that I’m talking to an ADHD person, but I will realize later that is why I got along very well with them.

[00:14:21] Um, yeah. Anyway, this, how did this become about me? This is

[00:14:25] Jeff: Well, I just want, but that’s fine. I just wanna wrap it unless anybody has anything else to say by saying that I, I don’t want to be suggesting that the only meaningful way to connect is in-person. In fact, I thank the gods that’s not the case because like, most of my social life happens, whether it’s like connecting on Zoom, if only because most of my friends are spread out across the country or the world or whatever, like it would be, you know, for one thing, super ableist to just be like, yeah, no, if I can’t get to the bar, I can’t go out on a walk. It doesn’t matter. [00:15:00] So it doesn’t count. Right. But like, so I really wanna be really super clear about that, that I know there are so many ways it’s really very much just me. It’s about me struggling to do in-person contact and about me saying yes to in-person contact. That’s the, that’s my that’s my personal challenge.

[00:15:21] Brett: I see my therapist in person tomorrow. Um,

[00:15:25] Jeff: oh yeah. Cuz last time it was online.

[00:15:26] Brett: Yeah, I will let you know. I will report back, uh, how that, how that, uh, differs for me.

[00:15:33] Jeff: Sounds good. That’s great. What about you, Christina? How you been?

[00:15:37] Christina: I’ve been fine, nothing really new to kind of updates since like our last episode, I’ve been fine. Um, like you, I totally agree. Like I love my online friendships and, and like interactions and whatnot. I’m just saying like, Seeing people is good.

[00:15:51] And I’m actually gonna see a bunch of people this weekend, because there are two parties I’m going to, I’m going to a, a, a weird hybrid birthday party. That’s gonna be a lot of fun that my friends are [00:16:00] having for their two kids who are very different ages. So that’ll be a lot of fun. And, um, then my, uh, my other friend, he is finally, the next day he’s having, um, a birthday party.

[00:16:09] His birthday was in may, but he had to reschedule. So, uh, barring any other things we’re gonna be getting together and I’m finally gonna see his new house. So I’m actually really excited about this because I, like I said, I, I do actually get a lot from being out and seeing people and like being social.

[00:16:27] And that’s the thing I think that I miss the that’s been the most different about my life now versus two and a half years ago is that, you know, I used to see people face-to-face every single day reliably. And now I work from home, which is fine. Um, I, I go into a studio once a week, but like, it’s, it’s, you know, I, but I don’t actually see any of my coworkers because we’re all remote and that’s, that’s great.

[00:16:51] Like, I love that we have that, but I do miss that, like interaction and, and stuff that I get with like actual [00:17:00] humans. Like, I, I, I, there could be too much of it, but I thrive off of it. And, and it’s something that has definitely made my life worse, not having. So I’m glad that, that I have that.

[00:17:09] Jeff: Awesome. House tours and cake. That’s in your future.

[00:17:12] Christina: Yep.

[00:17:14] Brett: I, uh, so I will, I will say, uh, cuz this is been a thread here, um, like going to MacStock, uh, this year it was a smaller MacStock and um, I really focused my attention on two new friends that I made. Uh, one, one I had met before, but with my ADHD brain, when he contacted me on Twitter to ask what I was up to this year, I was like, who the fuck is this?

[00:17:42] Um, and, and Elle was like, oh, that’s Shane. He, he’s a really good guy. You had a good time with him. I’m like, okay. So anyway, we end up hanging out with Shane and, and another friend that I met because we were, we were at a table [00:18:00] expecting, um, Dan, uh, from Agile to show up and he has a beard and he’s bald and a guy walks in matching his profile exactly and I just instinctively like, wave him over. It’s not Dan though. It’s this other guy that I’ve never met before. And he realizes very quickly that. It was a mistake, but asks if he can sit down anyway, becomes like our best friend for the weekend. And, uh, and we had some really cool, really fun conversations and I came home feeling much healthier for the social interaction.

[00:18:38] So I’m not immune to this. And I don’t mean to imply that I am, and I should also say I was every year I have a birthday party and the friends that I do actually connect with get invited and it got put off this year for various reasons and I haven’t had it yet and I do miss it. And, and [00:19:00] there are, there are people here that actually do connect with, but I never see on Zoom. Like I see them once a year and I forget about them until that time rolls around. So, uh, scratch what I said before about there being nobody here, there are at least four people in this town that I like.

[00:19:17] Jeff: And also just to note everybody, if you are a bald white bearded, man, Brett is gonna have you bring it in

[00:19:24] Brett: Yeah, Bring it in.

[00:19:28] Sponsor: Mindbloom

[00:19:28] Brett: You know when a podcaster record their sponsor reads and posts, and then injects them into weird spots in the episode. Yeah, I’m sorry, but I’m doing that. And this episode kind of got away from us with all the mental health talk. Fortunately today’s sponsor is 100% about mental health. You just need to take better care of yourself is not a response to mental health struggles.

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[00:21:27]

[00:21:27] Journaling while manic (and otherwise)

[00:21:27] Brett: I heard from a bunch of people, I shouldn’t say a bunch. I heard from four different people, um, after our last episode about how they were also bipolar and they, they loved manic episodes loved and hated manic episodes, but they understood like where I was come coming from with like my actual desire for mania when I don’t have it, but then maybe regret when I do have it.

[00:21:55] Um, so that’s been, that’s been interesting and I’m, I’m, I’m gonna talk more [00:22:00] about it with my therapist, cuz I have that now. Um, but uh, Friday I started. Uh, a, a manic episode that got pretty intense and, uh, it’s Wednesday now. Um, I started sleeping, uh, Tuesday night, uh, Monday night and Tuesday night. I slept both nights, and got caught back up.

[00:22:23] It was just a couple days, but holy shit, I made so much stuff in a couple days. Um, and oh my God, Elle is such a trooper. It’s hard. I, when I get manic, I get very, like, I just wanna hide in code and I, it’s a very, it’s a safe mania. Like I don’t hurt anybody. I don’t, I don’t spend a lot of money. I don’t set a lot of tweets. I don’t do outrageous things. I, I write and I code and, and it’s, it’s overall, [00:23:00] uh, very productive, but it comes at the, the costs of like, uh, interpersonal relationships. And with my ex-wife, like I was having manic episodes that would last 10, 12 days. And I would basically never see her and I would ditch her. And I swore never to do that again. So I make my manic episodes are way less serious or intense now than they were. um, and I make an effort to like, be part of the family and to join, but Elle a is really good.

[00:23:37] She’s fine on her own. Like, she doesn’t mind having the house to herself while I disappear to my office for hours on end. Uh, but also she looks out for me, like she does what she can to kind of pave the way for me to just get through it, uh, kind of pain free because I immediately start worrying, like, how am I fucking in my [00:24:00] relationship?

[00:24:00] Like, I’m, I’m focused, I’m obsessed with this piece of code that I’m working on, but in the back of my mind, how am I fucking up my relationship, uh, right now. And, and she, she, she does her best to make it okay. Not in a codependent way, just in way that says, Hey, I know what you’re going through. And. I’m not mad at you.

[00:24:24] And she’ll like, say out loud, I’m not mad at you, which is helpful, but yeah, it’s, I’m, I’m coming down still. You can tell I’m a little bit, uh, we’ll say frazzled, but, um, I am looking forward to going to see my therapist tomorrow . Having had enough sleep. Oh. And I journaled through this whole episode, like he told me he wanted, he wanted documentation of my manic episodes.

[00:24:53] And I was like, just look at my GitHub chart. you can tell where, where, when and where my manic [00:25:00] episodes happened based on my GitHub activity. Uh, and he was pretty impressed by that, but I figured I’d go the extra mile and I started journaling as soon as I realized I was. And I’ve journaled every day through the process.

[00:25:13] And that first day, holy shit, I wrote four pages. It just pours out. And then today I wrote a paragraph. It waned off after a couple nights without sleep,

[00:25:26] Jeff: Have you ever journaled through a episode before?

[00:25:29] Brett: no, the closest I’ve gotten is blogging about like, I did a, a couple of blog posts. I did one during the mania and then forced myself during depression to do a follow up.

[00:25:42] Like, this is what the other side is like. Uh, which is really hard for me. I typically don’t write when I’m depressed. Uh, after, after a, you know, a week of putting out a blog post every day, then there’ll be like two weeks where I don’t post at all. Um, [00:26:00] but, uh, that’s the closest I’ve ever gotten to actually putting into words what was happening.

[00:26:06] Uh, so this time I have, I have some documentation.

[00:26:10] Jeff: I’m not asking you to be specific, but I’m curious, um, we can get so sort of stuck in our stories about our mental health or about how we experience this thing or that thing. Right. Cause we kind of tell it the same way over and over for me, the way that stuff breaks is when I can journal that’s when things like become that’s when I get surprised is what I’m trying to

[00:26:31] say. Um yeah. You know, and, and

[00:26:34] Christina: you to like re-remember or like re-experience and, and recontextualize, oh, Right its not just this loop that I’ve been replaying that I’ve told myself. It’s it’s maybe these other things.

[00:26:44] Jeff: And it’s like truly, truly, truly not for an audience, right? Like not in any way, shape or form. Um, and Brett, I was just curious if anything, about the journaling, not that I’m expecting it should have surprised you. I’m just curious if it did

[00:26:55] surprise

[00:26:56] Brett: Totally totally like when I’m manic, [00:27:00] I can start chaining together. Thoughts in ways that normally I would hit a logical conclusion very quickly. Uh, but when I’m manic, like I, one thing makes me realize another thing in succession and journaling in that state actually proved to be very, um, in depth. Like I discovered things in the process that I hadn’t previously realized, and they were things that I was excited to talk to my therapist about. And you’re right. It is very different than writing for an audience because I’m in that I am, I’m mentally curating what I share. Uh, when I’m journaling, I took out all the filters and I’m, I’m, I’m honest with people, but I don’t dig. I don’t dig the way I did in that journaling. So yeah, I

[00:27:53] Jeff: I don’t feel like it’s about being honest or not honest. I think that when you share about yourself in public, you are, you are [00:28:00] crafting a self in the truest sense and, and you’re crafting a self that is, I mean, hopefully you’re able to craft a self that is, that is safe being that self out in the world. Right. And which no doubt means you’re leaving parts out as you should. Right. Cause it’s like

[00:28:16] Christina: Yeah.

[00:28:19] Brett: Yeah, there’s very little. I leave out. Um, yeah, no, I guess there are things I leave out just for people’s sanity.

[00:28:27] Christina: Well right. Cuz that’s that’s the thing is like, I. So it’s funny because for me, I, the first time, and really like the only time I was ever able to consistently journal and, and I kind of wish I could get back on it. Ironically was when I had a live journal starting in high school and then in college. And, and what I liked about that is that yes, there was that public aspect, which. Yes, you, you can censor, even if you’re not trying to censor, like it just, as you were saying, you, you, there’s a different craft. There’s, there’s a different thing. But what was great about live journal is you could also have completely private posts, right. That [00:29:00] were only for yourself and, and that, that you could have there.

[00:29:03] And so, you know, like I, I appreciated that like motif, cuz I was like, I can do the thing that I’m used to doing that I’ve kind of made a habit of mine, which was good for me, but I can also be like really honest in a way that, that I, I wouldn’t feel comfortable even like if you’re not trying to hide things, you’re not trying to lie.

[00:29:20] It’s just like, there’s stuff that, not anybody else’s business, there’s personal writing, you know, I could still do that in that space. And I always like having kind of that dual thing, but I think you’re right. Like it’s very different, at least for me, even if we’re, we tend to be more honest about how we do things about if you’re just journaling for yourself, You don’t ever expect anybody to read it.

[00:29:41] Maybe you don’t even want anybody to read it. Right? Because that, that’s not how you’re doing it versus knowing that someone could read it.

[00:29:49] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:51] Brett: I did this journal. I wrote to my therapist, um, I didn’t write dear diary. Like in [00:30:00] my head, I was like, these are things I want my therapist to know.

[00:30:03] Christina: That’s really smart.

[00:30:05] Brett: I don’t know if that’s smart or if that made me censor it a little bit because, um, like I barely know the guy at this point. Uh, I,

[00:30:14] Christina: that’s a good thing too, right? Like when you don’t know somebody like you don’t like, you don’t have any of that built ups of like, am I

[00:30:20] Brett: I suppose, yeah,

[00:30:21] Christina: am they gonna judge me in a way? It’s like, I don’t know this person who

[00:30:24] Brett: like it’s very important to me. If I’m gonna make therapy work, it’s very important to me that I don’t lie and manipulate. Um, and so I, I approached it with that consideration in mind. Uh, but basically everything I wrote was stuff that I wanted him to read. Uh, not the deep I I’ve read. I’ve snuck in, in read girlfriend’s journals in the past, um, which is a super shitty thing to do.

[00:30:53] And if you’re young and dumb, don’t even

[00:30:56] Christina: fucking do

[00:30:57] Brett: don’t fucking do it

[00:30:58] Christina: You a, you don’t

[00:30:59] wanna do it [00:31:00] a, a, you don’t wanna do

[00:31:00] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:31:01] Christina: because nothing you learn is going to make you feel good. There’s only possibility you’ll feel bad. And you were violating like the most intimate trust you could ever have

[00:31:09] Brett: such a violation. And then, and then you feel compelled to like confront them about this thing that, that got under your skin, but then you have to admit that they, that you read their journal and then holy shit, that, yeah, you, it is a world of hurt. It’s a world of pain. Never, ever, ever read someone else’s journal.

[00:31:31] Just take it from a guy who’s been young and dumb and jealous and stupid. Uh, just don’t read anyone’s journal, but I will say what I learned from that is that people who actually know how to journal, they don’t, they don’t filter. They just pour it all out. And, and that’s maybe something I, I think I filter everything on the fly.

[00:31:57] I don’t think I know how to actually [00:32:00] journal. I’m always, always writing for an audience. Even when I’m writing for myself,

[00:32:05] Jeff: have you ever heard of the, I mean, this dates me, cuz this is forever old. Um, the book, “The Artist’s Way” by Julie Cameron,

[00:32:15] Brett: vaguely familiar. Don’t know

[00:32:17] what it is.

[00:32:18] Jeff: um, it’s, it’s a book about, it’s just a book about creativity. It’s a book about how to sort of, um, claim your creativity and your, your creative self essentially. Um, and I read it, it’s like a workbook kind of, I read it, uh, back in 2000, maybe 1999.

[00:32:37] Um, but the thing that stuck with me and I don’t do it all the time, but it gets right to, this is there’s a practice she encourages you to do early on throughout the period that you’re working through this workbook, which is like the couple months and she calls it the Morning Pages. And the idea is that you just open up a journal or you grab three pieces of printer paper, and you just write, you write three pages, you just write straight through. You don’t – you’re not trying to sound [00:33:00] smart. Um, you’re doing what you can do to make yourself feel safe, that nobody would ever read this thing.

[00:33:06] Right. And it’s just three pages. You don’t write more. You just go it’s, you can write big, you can write small, whatever it is, but you just like let it all flow out. First thing in the morning is sort of the primary idea. And, um, what I have found when I’m doing that and I I’ve done it, the longest period I did, it was like something 170 days or something.

[00:33:26] I remember the, I remember counting, um, you know, you can, one way she has you do it is just put those three pages in a sealed envelope when you’re done and put it in a file cabinet. You you’re not supposed to even reread. 'em it’s just like the idea is, and you’re not going back to this nothing. Right. Um, what I have found when I do that is that after a few days, I am surprised every day.

[00:33:50] So I find it annoying to do. Sometimes I’m not in the mood to do it. Sometimes I write really big so I can get through my three pages quickly. But if I do it [00:34:00] every day, there is some little surprise in there. And little surprise, nothing big, nothing mind blowing. That makes me think. I’m really glad I did that today.

[00:34:08] And, um, the fact of, you know, this idea that it’s just three pages and nobody’s ever gonna read this and I am not trying to sound smart. I am not trying to get complete thoughts out. Um, you know, I’m not trying to explain something to myself, which is sometimes what can happen in journaling. Uh, I just find that to be an amazing practice and I highly recommend it.

[00:34:27] Brett: What do, why, why in the morning versus in the evening, like, what do you write about in the morning? Like in the evening I would write about my day here’s, here’s what I experienced. Here’s how I felt about it. What do you write first thing in the morning?

[00:34:43] Jeff: so for me, why it works well in the morning and I’ve tried it all different points in the day is that in the morning, I’m kind of putting myself on like, you know, like I’m, I’m dressing in me. Um, and I actually find the transition from [00:35:00] sleeping and dreaming. I’m, I’m a very intense dreamer. So I find that transition from that point into breakfast, into work, to be actually really difficult and, and in need of some sort of ritual.

[00:35:11] Um, and, and this stops me when I’m doing it. And it’s not just that I need that ritual and I need it there more than any place else. I could also use a ritual at the end of the day, for sure. Like leaving work and going into family stuff. But like, it’s actually, it’s a ritual, not just to transition myself, um, physically into a new space, but it’s like, I just come to find when I’m doing it in the morning that I have some leftover thoughts from the day before I have some worries about the day.

[00:35:39] Um, I have some things that have been just sort of passing through my head, but I haven’t really grabbed them and acknowledged that they’re there. And, uh, and I find that I, I need to sort that stuff. I mean, I find, sorry that it’s super useful to sort that stuff in the morning before I enter into my day, um, through these morning pages, whereas the end of the day, it’s just like, [00:36:00] I’m more kind of exhausted and it’s just more of a yeah.

[00:36:03] And this and this and this and this and this. Whereas in the morning, it’s like, I’m a little more open to the universe. And like, I haven’t quite like, I haven’t quite solidified into like who I am for the day yet. And so it feels like there’s an opening there just to get a little metaphysical.

[00:36:18] Brett: All right. I I’m gonna have to give it a try. See what happens. Like I like, I, I like the idea of jo… I’ve always liked the idea of journaling, but now that I started, um, I’m definitely curious to see. What else I can do with it. Cause like I have all these tools that track what I’m doing and, and how it’s going.

[00:36:39] Uh, like I can see my productivity. I can, I can remember what I was working on, but my feelings have always been kind of ignored.

[00:36:52] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:36:53] Brett: so

[00:36:54] Jeff: You don’t get those in GitHub unless you’re a really good commentor.

[00:36:55] A GitHub activity chart for my feelings

[00:36:55] Brett: Right, like a GitHub, a GitHub activity chart for my [00:37:00] feelings, which I, you guys remember exist. exist.io. Um, it is, uh, it’s a web service web app. I don’t anyway, um, it, you, at its core, you rate your mood from like one to 10 every day and you write a little status update, but you can write as much as you want, and you can add all kinds of tags, uh, at various signs throughout the day.

[00:37:29] And you can, and it can automatically pull in data from other like social media sites and every week it sent you a summary of like how you did that week. Like, how were you feeling? What was your mood? And it’s pretty basic. It’s just, it’s a mood tracking app and I’ve kind of followed them from their inception like 10 years ago. And I used it pretty frequently for almost two years. Uh, and then like in my head [00:38:00] I was capturing data that would be useful to me. Um, and ultimately having years worth of mood data was not, it didn’t help me make any decisions and I kinda lost the drive to do it, but, uh, I think it kind of serves the same purpose as, as, as journaling.

[00:38:24] Christina: Definitely. I think like if, what you’re wanting to get out of the journaling is to kind of track that sort of thing. I think it can, like for, for me, journaling is about getting my thoughts and my feelings out even if I never look at it again, just so I can work through my emotions so that I’m not bottling it up and carrying it forward and making things bad, like by, by, by having some explosion later on, because I never got my feelings out. Like that’s what it is for me. I don’t, I can’t say that for everybody else, but for me,

[00:38:51] Jeff: pressure release.

[00:38:51] Christina: Yeah, well, not even that, but just to be like, acknowledge that things happen and just write about stuff and just get my feelings out and just like, now I can, I’ve worked [00:39:00] through things because I’ve, I’ve been able to talk about some someplace I’ve been able to like, do, do what I needed to do.

[00:39:04] Right. Like that, that becomes like a big thing. So yeah.

[00:39:09] Brett: I would, uh,

[00:39:11] Jeff: I’m curious just generally for you, does that take a lot of journaling or a little journaling? I’m always surprised by how much can be done in a little bit,

[00:39:19] but you just described sounded like a lot of work, but it doesn’t not for you.

[00:39:23] Christina: Well, I mean, it can, and again, I haven’t done this regularly in a really long time and I should get back to it again. It could just be small things, right. It could be small things. And in some ways, to be honest with you, I kind of treat Twitter in some ways as, as a journal, a little bit, I kind of Chronicle things as they’re happening.

[00:39:37] And like, if I’m frustrated with something, then I’m like tweeting through my frustration. Like maybe not the same way that I would like journal it, but I’m like, wow, this is really annoying. And I’m doing this. And that’s, that’s like a really good thing for me.

[00:39:48] Brett: That that’s why I built Slogger like, so I started using Day One and I was journaling a little bit in Day One and I realized most of what I was journaling was stuff that I already tweeted. [00:40:00] And so I built Slogger for anyone who doesn’t know, it stands for social logger, which it was a horrible name. But it ran on a cron job or a, a launchd job.

[00:40:12] And it would basically bring in all of your tweets, all of your Instagram posts, all of your Facebook posts and just like create a Day One journal of your social media, which in effect what, like what, what you’re talking about, Christina, it basically automated the process of journaling for me. uh, but only the stuff I was willing to share public.

[00:40:37] Christina: Right. That’s the thing. Right. And, and, and that’s why sometimes I have to like, get myself back into that mindset where I’m like, okay, if I, I really, really need to do more personal journaling. And for me, like having it be in a web database and having the ability to kind of pick and choose what could be public and what could be private like that, especially that time in my life.

[00:40:54] Right. Like that was, you know, when I was, like 17, you know, 18, through , like [00:41:00] early twenties, like that was like a really formative, time, cuz you know, your body’s changing, you have a lot of emotions. Like you’re going through a lot of life changes. Like that’s like a really formative time for a lot of people.

[00:41:10] Um, and, and so I think that that worked really well for me, but I’m I’m with you, it, it, it doesn’t bring in the stuff that you would do privately. And for me, like journaling, cuz I, I tried a bunch of ways before. Like I always tried to keep a diary or keep like a word document or, or other things and it’s like, I needed.

[00:41:28] Almost like, I it’s almost like I needed that social interaction to make it a habit where I could then do like the, the personal writing stuff. If that makes any sense, like I needed some sort of carrot, some sort of thing to pull me in, live journal was great, man. Live journal was great.

[00:41:43] Brett: So you guys have heard of doing my little command line tool for like, you can absolutely use that for journaling. You can add a note to any doing entry and you can open up an entry in your text editor [00:42:00] and you can just like, as thoughts occur to you, as problems happen, as things like it’s a very personal log file, that can keep track of, you know, what you’ve committed to GitHub and what you’ve tweeted, but also like you can add all kinds of personal notes to that.

[00:42:17] And I’m, I’ve started doing that, um, just over the last few days, which is now I have a searchable archivable version of my journal. I like.

[00:42:28] Jeff: Actually I wanna start using that. Um, I use doing off and on. I love doing, um, I have a friend who just does, uh, like essentially like what you would do to kind of comment out in bash as a command and uses that to log what he’s working on in thinking. And then he just like makes it so that his bash history is, is infinite.

[00:42:50] And he can just kind of grep it basically, which is genius. actually, he told me this when

[00:42:58] Brett: do

[00:42:58] Jeff: I, what?

[00:42:58] Brett: Do comments get [00:43:00] saved to your history?

[00:43:00] Jeff: yeah. Anything, any command you type in, gets saved to your history?

[00:43:04] Brett: I didn’t know that.

[00:43:06] Jeff: Yeah. He told me that either after I told him about doing or before I told him about doing, I’m not sure which, but anyway, I, when I’ve really got my shit together, I keep a document open and called the distraction dump.

[00:43:17] And so if I have this like thing where I want to go Google something, I just type what I wanted to Google into that document. I realize that would be a great use of doing cause you don’t even, I mean, I could just

[00:43:27] Brett: And you could tag it with at Google and

[00:43:30] Jeff: totally. I’m gonna about that. I’ll check back in.

[00:43:35] Gather Redux! (With a loving nod to Aaron Schwartz)

[00:43:35] Brett: if I can, if I can segue this into, um, well, shit, like, I wanna talk about what I did during this manic episode, but also I’m suddenly finding it, not that interesting. Uh, okay. Let I’ll, I’ll

[00:43:52] Christina: the one who gets to choose that. So

[00:43:54] Jeff: Yeah. You don’t get to choose

[00:43:56] Brett: I’ll summarize. Okay. History. I [00:44:00] used to have a tool called Gather. It was a cocoa app for Mac that you could pace a, uh, URL into and it would give you a Markdown version after running it through Readability and Aaron Schwartz’s html2text it, it, it requires Python. Um, as all of my, all of my markdownifying scripts require Python. And as of the last two, OSs, Apple has stopped shipping Python by default. So all of my scripts only work. If you are savvy enough to have installed like the command line tools or your, your own versions of Ruby and Python and Perl.

[00:44:44] And so I was looking for an alternative and it, I, it turned out that, a guy who I had shared my original, like I modified over the years, I’ve modified, [00:45:00] html2text to handle more modern markup and to output, uh, more multimarkdown syntax. Um, so I had shared that with this guy and, when I tweeted that I couldn’t find a Swift or Objective C version of this he’s like, oh yeah, I converted your scripts to Swift long time ago. And he sent me the repos and, and they were in Swift and I dug into them and knowing that it would solve my problem, that I could now release Swift or compiled versions of the scripts. I decided I was gonna learn Swift. So between last Friday and this Wednesday, I have learned enough Swift to be dangerous. I’ve learned, I’ve learned by hacking, but then I also went back and loaded up the most recent version of Apples Swift, uh, their book on [00:46:00] books.app. I had the original like swift 1.0 version, and it’s just a it’s updated itself over time.

[00:46:07] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say it keeps updating itself, which I both like, and don’t like, like, I appreciate that it updates itself, but I’m also kind of like, okay, but I’d like to see a diff of this because

[00:46:15] Brett: Well, dude, I’ve watched the changes in Swift over the last five versions and it has been enough to dissuade me from learning Swift because like core things are changing

[00:46:29] Christina: Same, same. Because, because I like got excited, I was like, oh, I’m gonna get really into Swift. And then like every major version, I’m like, oh, so this is completely different. And I, I can’t rely on this. Like, I feel like, you know, like objective C and cocoa and stuff. It’s like, they added new features, but it wasn’t like if they deprecated

[00:46:44] Brett: didn’t, it wasn’t breaking it. They weren’t breaking changes.

[00:46:48] Christina: Whereas now it’s like, it feels like, and I know this isn’t true, but it feels like every year. They make some sort of massive breaking change where, where, where if you’ve done something, you can’t do it. And so, I [00:47:00] don’t know, like I have a, this is my own personal, like, rant that I’ll go on. I think that that’s really hurt the adoption outside of people who write iOS apps and certain macOS apps.

[00:47:09] Right. Because there are still a lot of macOS apps that people still write in objective C for reasons like we’re saying, because they’ve either existed for a long time or they need to do certain things that Swift and the various Swift kits can’t do. And I’m like, yeah, it’s great to have updates, but it’s not great to like maybe make you have to refactor everything you’re

[00:47:30] Brett: I’m.

[00:47:30] Christina: doing.

[00:47:31] Brett: The detriment is it’s a constantly expanding language. So if you wanna, you could lock into a version of the compiler and, and your code would continue to work. But if you want to take advantage

[00:47:48] Christina: That’s what I

[00:47:48] Brett: added each year, then you have to adapt.

[00:47:51] Christina: That’s what I mean. If you look at something like .net – .net has had a bunch of variations, had a bunch of shit over the years and whatnot, but[00:48:00] if you wanna add in some of the new features, they have gone out of their way to make it possible to add those things without having to adopt the whole new set. Now they went through their own – there was like .net and .net core and, and, and all these other like iterations and all these other things. And like, they went through a bunch of stuff. Now they’re actually solidified on one base that runs multi-platforms and whatnot. And they’re adding things back, but it felt like, you know, basically I think probably because they knew that that Windows devs were, are not like Mac devs and that they will, you know, adopt the newest thing, no matter how much work it is for them, because Apple said so, and, and, you know, the users will demand it.

[00:48:38] You know, the, the, the Windows devs are kind of like, fuck you. Like, we’re gonna do whatever we need to do. Um, but, um, like we’re, we’re, we’re gonna adopt our own thing. And if anything, we’re going to hold things back because you didn’t make the new thing work with our old workflow. All I’m saying is I think that this is one of those things that if you look at this thing, it can keep people from wanting to jump in, just cuz you [00:49:00] know that if you wanna cont, if you wanna adopt new things, you wanna keep up with things. You’re gonna have to be on this running treadmill forever.

[00:49:07] Brett: me from wanting to jump in for like five years. I watched all of the tribulations that developers who immediately adopted Swift went through, I will say now that I’m into the thick of it it is a way more fun language than objective C way more fun. Everything about it makes more sense. Everything about it is far more reasonable than objective C. Like if you wanna concatenate two strings, you can use, uh, like plus equals you can use like an additive operator and in objective C you’d have to do like string by appending string. And that it’s, it’s ridiculous. So it’s a better language. I love it.

[00:49:52] I’m really into it. Um, and I got like, I was able to update html2text, uh, the [00:50:00] Swift version with all of the new features I wanted to add. And I also, it, it also uses, uh, a port of Arc90’s Readability. Uh, if you guys remember that, that I modernized for, modern markup. Basically it finds the actual content in a webpage, it extracts or removes sidebars and headers and advertisements and comments and all of those things.

[00:50:26] Uh, and then I built special handling for – any Stack Exchange question gets special handling so that you get the question and the answers. And there are flags on the app that let you include comments or exclude comments or only include their accepted answer, or only include answers that have so many up votes and then special handling for, developer, forums on Apple etcetera. Anyway, I, I got crazy with it. I made a tool that you could basically embed into a shortcut or an [00:51:00] Automator workflow or any script you are working on and, and have full power of, Marky markdownification. And, uh, I just, before this podcast added, um, the ability to clip directly into an nvUltra or nvAlt note, uh, you can add a flag and it will markdownify the page and create a new note in one step, which now I have that in a Launch Bar action and I can, I can turn any webpage I’m reading into a Markdown note in nvUltra with, with a keystroke. Um,

[00:51:39] Jeff: I love it.

[00:51:40] Brett: yeah, it got it got crazy. It did. It got crazy. Yeah. But oh, so I go to release it – I compile it as a binary and it’s the first time I’ve ever released a single binary, um, not a script [00:52:00] and not an app, but a binary. And I code sign it. I zip it. And I put it up on the web, you know, it runs fine for me. And then I hear immediately from someone who’s like, I get a malicious software warning when I try to install

[00:52:16] Jeff: boy.

[00:52:17] Brett: And it turns out you can’t code sign, you can’t notarize a single binary. You can only notarize a package. So then I go through this rabbit hole and I finally figure out the only way to distribute it is to create a PKG file that I, I, I send to Apple’s notary service. I get notarized and then publish that PKG file, which is then an installer and then you can only install it to one location. And it’s not ideal, but I’m like, okay, I can work with it. And then I figure most of the people who would actually use this have Homebrew installed, and I really need to figure out how to build a Homebrew formula. [00:53:00] And I go to Homebrew home brew’s formula documentation is fucking intense.

[00:53:05] It’s so long.

[00:53:07] Christina: But, very good.

[00:53:09] Brett: it’s very good, but I’m going through it, trying to figure out what the little bit of it that I

[00:53:14] Christina: No, no, no, no. I understand. I’m just saying cuz

[00:53:16] Brett: impossible.

[00:53:17] Christina: cuz I’ve had to package fonts before, like,

[00:53:20] Brett: my.

[00:53:20] Christina: or I had tried to package a fonts, on Homebrew and it was, was like, not mine, but I was just gonna be like the packager and, so yeah, it’s a whole thing. Yeah.

[00:53:27] Brett: I eventually found after, after going through several tutorials that were outdated because Homebrew’s formula has changed. Um, I found an NShipster article that I’ll link in the show notes for anyone who does care about this. Um, it took me five minutes once I understood the, the few things I actually needed. Uh, now you can just type “brew tap ttscoff/thelab”, and then “brew install gather-cli” [00:54:00] and, and you’re good to go. You have a, a copy compiled on your own system so you don’t have to worry about notarization or anything. And.

[00:54:09] Christina: is great. Yeah. Although there is a certain irony that the whole reason you went through this process was that you didn’t want people to have to install Xcode tools, to be able to run these things.

[00:54:19] Right. But. I mean, that was the whole reason you did this, but of course, in order to have Homebrew installed, you still have to have Xcode tools installed. So there is a certain irony in this, right? Uh, that, that you went through this entire process to avoid something that is still going, people are still going to have to do anyway.

[00:54:34] But,

[00:54:34] Brett: in my, in my manic, in my manic frazzled state. I hadn’t even considered that

[00:54:39] Jeff: awesome, Christina. I love it.

[00:54:48] Christina:

[00:54:48] But in fairness, once they’ve gone through it, this will make updating it much easier, right?

[00:54:52] Brett: If you don’t already have Homebrew up and running and you use a Mac and you’re any kind of nerd, you really should get it up and [00:55:00] running, like you should already have that working. Um, which is probably a, a fair assumption that most of the scripts I share are going to people who already have all of the processors, but it’s a, it’s a principle.

[00:55:14] It’s the principle of the thing. Um, but yeah, Homebrew is amazing and it like, it has surpassed all other package managers. And now that it can install like ever since casks showed up and, and now you can create a Brewfile that automatically installs all of your apps and your command line utilities,

[00:55:37] Jeff: How love my Brewfile.

[00:55:39] Christina: me too.

[00:55:40] Brett: Homebrew…

[00:55:42] Christina: a ton of time with Mike McQuaid who’s like the main maintainer, uh, of, of Homebrew, at our, um, little mini summit a couple months ago. And, I might have fangirled a little bit to be completely

[00:55:53] Brett: Yeah, hobnobbing with the stars.

[00:55:55] Christina: because I was like, I was like, no, you don’t understand. I’m such a huge [00:56:00] fan. I’ve been such a huge fan for such a long time. And I really appreciate what Homebrew does and the fact that it works on Linux now. And like, you know what I mean? Like, like which, which I get I’m like, well, there are a million other package managers. Yes. I understand that. I like Homebrew fuck off.

[00:56:14] Brett: Oh, that makes me want, that makes me want a Docker image that installs Homebrew on Linux that I can just use “brew” to install all of the packages I need “apt get” as a pain in the ass sometimes. Um, anyway. Okay. I didn’t want to go too in depth about Gather, uh, I built a tool. It markdownifies webpages.

[00:56:38] You can incorporate the scripts. It was a blast. And I, I did it all in a weekend and I’m really happy with it. And that’s all I’m gonna say.

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[00:58:33] Welcome to Wrexham

[00:58:33] Brett: Do you guys have time for one TV show? Um, so,

[00:58:37] Christina: time.

[00:58:39] Brett: uh, have you seen “Welcome to Wrexham”?

[00:58:42] Jeff: No.

[00:58:44] Brett: is it’s Ryan Reynolds and Rob, and I never say his

[00:58:48] Jeff: Oh, I, I.

[00:58:49] Brett: Rob me from sunny

[00:58:52] Christina: Um, yeah. Yeah. Okay. McElhenney. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:55] Brett: buy, they buy a, a football, a soccer let’s, let’s be American about it. They buy a [00:59:00] soccer team, uh, they’re currently in like the third tier league and so they buy, they buy basically a loser soccer team in, in Wales and it’s a documentary that’s tracking like maybe how they turned this team around, but it’s only, there are only two episodes out.

[00:59:22] Christina: So it’s like Ted Lasso but, like, real life.

[00:59:24] Brett: Yeah. This is documentary.

[00:59:27] Christina: was gonna say, I remember now hearing that Ryan Reynolds had bought like a, um, a club, but I didn’t realize that that that Mac, bought the club with him.

[00:59:36] This is amazing. And I’m like very into this because

[00:59:39] Brett: and they had never met before this.

[00:59:42] Christina: So that makes it even better. So real quick pivot do either of you watch the Always Sunny in Philadelphia podcast.

[00:59:51] Jeff: No.

[00:59:51] Christina: Okay. You have to it’s like one of those recap pop podcasts, except they completely dismiss of any idea that they’re bothering with recapping the episodes at [01:00:00] all.

[01:00:00] Like they’ll show, share memories about stuff, but honestly, it’s just the three of them talking the shit and occasionally bringing in, you know, other guests and people from, the show and whatnot. It is the Always Sunny podcast is everything that you like love about always sunny, but you actually get to see like the people like the guys, like you really get a feeling like it’s just like kind of the three of them, like talking the shooting the shit and like having a good time.

[01:00:24] But, but the podcast is, is great. Highly recommended to anybody who watches the show and likes the show. Um, cuz it’s all three of them are brilliant and that show’s gonna fucking pass the honeymoons. If it hasn’t already like it’s it’s gonna it’s no, it’s gonna pass Gun Smoke. That’s what it’s it’s gonna fucking pass Gun Smoke.

[01:00:40] It’s gonna become like the longest running televised, like, like live action show of all time, which is insane. Like it’s, it’s gonna like fucking, Always Sunny in Philadelphia that and Grey’s Anatomy, those are the two that are gonna fucking beat Gun Smoke, man, which is insane.

[01:00:55] Brett: In the first episode of Welcome to Wrexham, , Mac is like, so I have [01:01:00] TV, star money. But if I wanna do this, I need movie star money So he brings in Ryan Reynolds and honestly, I can listen to Ryan Reynolds just riff all day.

[01:01:14] Grapptitude!

[01:01:14] Brett: So should we do some gratitude before it gets too long?

[01:01:17] Jeff: Let’s grappta grappta grapptitude.

[01:01:19] Brett: I’ll start off. I can go first. Um, I have an app called All That Unicode it’s a cool app that basically just gives you access to every Unicode character through different, like there’s a picker and you can go through categories and there’s a finder to search by name and description.

[01:01:40] And for anyone, writing code who wants to include a Unicode character, whether it’s an emoji or, you know, like a Cyrillic “R” symbol or whatever, it it’s a perfect. For web devs, [01:02:00] too. Who, who need to know the, the Unicode code to insert a character in a webpage? It it’s, it’s a perfect little app. It does exactly what it needs to do.

[01:02:11] I, uh, I’ve been very impressed with it. I use it a bunch of times today. That’s my pick for the day.

[01:02:19] Jeff: Awesome. What do you got Christina?

[01:02:21] Christina: Um, okay. I think I’m gonna talk about a more general kind of thing. And I wanna dive into this maybe as a topic in a future episode. So I’ve been spending a lot of time kind of looking at, at alternative web browsers.

[01:02:32] So getting away from just using, you know, like, like Safari, Firefox, Edge, um, you know, uh, Chrome, and looking at some other ones out there, and obviously most of them are using the chromium, uh, rendering engine, but there’s one notably that, that doesn’t, but I’ve been playing around with, um, Opera, which, you know, I think Chinese own it now, but it’s sort of interesting Vivaldi, which also.

[01:02:53] Brett: Old school.

[01:02:55] Christina: which, but they’ve been keeping them updated, which is interesting. They’re kind of like at the Brave school, but they do some interesting [01:03:00] things. There’s one called Arc. Arc is, uh, from a browser company, which is really about like making, like your work stuff more productive Arc is interesting, but the one I’m gonna mention arc.

[01:03:12] Yeah. I, I think that like you still to sign up it’s it’s like, it’s like browser.company, I think is the website. Um, but I think, um, or no, it’s the browser.company I think. Um, you have to get on a waiting list for it. Um, but, uh, I I’m a fan. The one I’m gonna talk about is Orion, which I don’t know if I’ve mentioned before.

[01:03:32] I think I might have so Orion.

[01:03:35] Jeff: but I, I

[01:03:35] Christina: So Orion’s in public beta now. So you don’t have to sign up on, on a form like you used to. It is interesting because it is using WebKit under the hood. So this is a Mac app, so it’s using WebKit under the hood, but they have it so that it’s working with most Chrome extensions and, um, also making some other changes in niceties and things that frankly Safari doesn’t do.

[01:03:57] So there’s, it’s kind of like, in [01:04:00] some ways, if I think of this, we’re able to be maintained well, it’s kind of the best of both worlds because you get the performance and like the battery impact and, and resource stuff of Safari, but all the stuff that you can’t get with Safari, you know, like, the extension situation and , some other, you know, kind of like niceties and the, the developer tools I think are, yeah I mean, they’re basically crumbs, but they’re, uh, you know, but at this point, safari are basically crumbs too. So it’s from a company called Kagi or Kagi.

[01:04:29] Brett: Kagi. Old school company

[01:04:31] Christina: no, no. That company went, that company went outta business. They bought the domain. Yeah. Yeah. So that company, that company is gone and, and this is a new guy.

[01:04:41] He was somebody who he sold something and got money off of it. His, I think the whole play on this is there’s gonna be like a paid search engine, which is supposed to be like privacy focused. I have no idea, but, um, you know, I’m not really necessarily gonna be into paying $10 a month for, for a search engine.

[01:04:57] Google has all my information anyway, but [01:05:00] the browser is definitely worth checking out. Uh, it doesn’t work super well with 1Password, um, which is frustrating. So I can’t, I would never use it as a daily driver, but I think that it’s one that I definitely think is worth checking out. And I’ll say this, even if it’s not something that you wanna use, like all the time.

[01:05:15] I’m glad that we’re seeing people like playing around with and having new takes on browsers again. And it’s nice to see an actual WebKit derived one rather than just a

[01:05:24] Brett: Yeah, right. Does another Chromium browser.

[01:05:27] Christina: right.

[01:05:28] Jeff: Awesome. That’s cool. That sounds fun to play with. Um, mine is, uh, this app. I don’t know if it’s pronounced Anki or Anki it’s A N K I it’s a flashcards app. It’s like a

[01:05:41] Christina: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:05:42] Jeff: around forever and, and it looks like it. I mean, like it’s, it’s one of those things that’s just stayed steady.

[01:05:48] The design hasn’t changed. I mean, you can do things to create themes and whatnot. I’ve been using it. It just does a really nice job of helping you create a hierarchy of cards in, in real [01:06:00] time as you’re doing the flashcards. Um, and just a wonderful job of guiding you and just kind of bite size study.

[01:06:07] And there’s tons of flashcard sets that exist or decks that exist already out there. Anyway, I had used it years ago. I use it just to like, keep certain commands that are like just outside my everyday use, fresh in my head. Cause it’s kind of fun for me. Um, I’ve been doing it with Git actually, cause there’s so many weird ass Git commands that you never use.

[01:06:28] And I just like being aware of them, but anyway, I’ve been using it to build up some decks or some stuff I’m trying to know better. And, and it’s awesome. And it’s also in terms of the community that uses this thing. It’s such a fucking crazy, peak into the world of medical school because it’s primarily like has a user base of medical students and those people are fucking bananas and the ways in which they use this thing, like there’s a, , there’s one, repo that helps you use your Nintendo Switch controllers, your [01:07:00] Joycons to like zip through your flashcards.

[01:07:03] And like, I don’t even understand what they’re doing, cuz it’s just like, so beyond my use case. So there’s just like this really like nutty community of mostly medical students and that alone is just kind of fun to figure out how deep into that shit they have to

[01:07:19] Brett: can I get flashcards on my Oculus? Cuz I would do that

[01:07:22] Jeff: know what, um, that is a great idea for the Oculus. I also, my kids bought an Oculus and I was thinking how great it would be to build a memory palace in an Oculus. Um, you know, like, and there’s one app that kind of does it,

[01:07:36] Brett: there’s an app. You can mirror a windows, desktop to Oculus and use your computer in a virtual space, which I love the idea of, I just needed to be for Mac and that doesn’t exist.

[01:07:50] Christina: no,

[01:07:50] Jeff: you can do it with Firefox though. You can, which is different, but like Firefox has a little bit of an environment that’s just beyond the browser that you can play with, but I haven’t tried it yet. [01:08:00] So

[01:08:00] Brett: Anyway, sorry, sorry. Sorry to hijack your,

[01:08:03] Jeff: that’s not hijacking shit.

[01:08:05] Christina: No, I love this. Uh, also the, I will hijack slightly, but we should maybe talk about this more. I bought a, I bought a Oculus Quest 2,

[01:08:12] Jeff: Oh, you have one too. We just did

[01:08:13] Christina: Yeah. So I, I got it before the price went up and so

[01:08:16] Jeff: Yep. Same.

[01:08:16] Christina: so, so, so, so, so, okay. So, alright. So this is a future topic. All three of us need to talk about, about our experiences, uh, with the, with the metaverse since, um, we bought into it before the price went up.

[01:08:27] Brett: have you guys found sky box yet?

[01:08:29] Jeff: Not yet.

[01:08:30] Brett: Plex for

[01:08:31] Christina: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:08:32] Brett: Any, any movie file you have on your Mac? You can play to your Oculus without any special connectors or.

[01:08:40] Jeff: not as satisfying as you want. The first thing I did in the Oculus Quest 2, was pull up Netflix and watch a Richard Pryor performance.

[01:08:47] Brett: watching Netflix on my Oculus

[01:08:49] Jeff: did not like it. I thought it would be the best thing in the world. Yeah.

[01:08:52] Brett: Oh my God. I

[01:08:53] love it. I would

[01:08:54] Jeff: just have an

[01:08:55] Brett: yeah, we should have an Oculus episode.

[01:08:56] Jeff: we’ll meet in the, in the metaverse.[01:09:00]

[01:09:00] Brett: This, episode title will be not the Oculus episode. Um, Anki man, I remember Anki from, someone asked me to incorporate it with some piece of software. I wrote like 10 years ago. It’s been around for a while effective though.

[01:09:19] Jeff: Yeah. There’s definitely room for Terpstra. Yes-anding in it for sure. all right, everybody, you all

[01:09:27] get some

[01:09:27] Brett: call it.

[01:09:28] Christina: We should definitely

[01:09:29] Brett: Yeah, you get some sleep.

[01:09:30] Jeff: Bye.

[01:09:31] Christina: Bye.

[01:09:37] Jeff: Hey, there are good people before you go. We have a bunch of new places where you can interact with us. Please check out our Instagram feed, our YouTube channel Twitter, of course, and sign up for the Overtired newsletter, which will sort of pick up where the show leaves off with expanded show notes. Uh, a little bit of what the three of us get up [01:10:00] to between episodes and let’s face it.

[01:10:02] There’ll be some musing. How can you resist musings? You’ll find details for all the ways to interact with us in the show notes and at overtired pod dot com . And And thank you. Thank you. Thank you as always for listening.