281: No One Ever Respected Billy Ray Cyrus

[00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to over tired. I’m Christina Warren joined as always by Brett sharp, stra and Jeff. Uh, fuck. Now I can’t, I can sever Severen. Gunzel Severen. Gunzel

[00:00:15] Jeff: edit. Edit.

[00:00:18] Brett: It’s

[00:00:18] Christina: severance console, right? Did I

[00:00:20] Brett: That is correct. Yes,

[00:00:22] Jeff: Yes. Yes,

[00:00:23] Christina: Fuck. I’m the worst? Um, uh we’re well, we’re okay. We’re we’re back after, after like three weeks apart, the trio is back together. Yay.

[00:00:33] Brett: Yeah.

[00:00:34] Jeff: everybody.

[00:00:35] Brett: Oh, you’re not going to retake that. We’re just going to roll with that.

[00:00:38] Jeff: Yeah, well,

[00:00:39] Christina: I mean, I

[00:00:41] Brett: Yes, Jeff. Jeff. Fuck. All right.

[00:00:44] Christina: Jeff. Fuck

[00:00:45] Jeff: That’s

[00:00:46] Brett: All right.

[00:00:46] Jeff: name from really

[00:00:48] Brett: me to list you in the show notes?

[00:00:50] Jeff: Hmm. Oh,

[00:00:51] Christina: F um, uh, Astros Astros, I guess. Cause, cause we need it for SEO purposes. Like I’m a big fan of putting fucking headlines and, and [00:01:00] putting fucking other things. But I also know that it can like hurt your S chances.

[00:01:03] Brett: I, uh, I was talking with R w w so like all the podcasts on backbeat media, not all of them, uh, a few of them get together once in a while. And we talk about how to improve podcasts. And I brought up the fact that, uh, shows like some more news with Cody Johnson do extremely sarcastic ad reads, um, that, that are actually worth watching.

[00:01:32] Like, they’re, they’re very funny to me. And, and I asked if we could get away with. Writing some more comedic ad reads and, and they were down there like, yeah, if your show says, fuck all the time, and then you don’t say fucking the ad reads, it feels like a real separation from reality. And, and most sponsors are okay with it.

[00:01:55] So I would have to present copy for approval. [00:02:00] And I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to write comedy in a vacuum like by yourself, but you really, you need, you need at least one other person to bounce ideas off of. Uh, so if you guys weren’t up for it, I was going to see if I could, uh, hire my coworkers, Victor and Aaron, who are very funny people, um, hire them to be my little writers' room and we could come up with some amazing ads.

[00:02:27] Jeff: an overtired writers' room?

[00:02:29] Brett: I am.

[00:02:30] Jeff: its own

[00:02:30] Christina: Uh, no, this is the real question is like, like, does this come out of your cut of the pay or does this

[00:02:35] Brett: this would be, this would be me. This would be me. This would be my own interest and funnier

[00:02:40] Christina: I don’t care. I mean, I don’t care. I’m just, I’m just

[00:02:43] Brett: Like I’ve tried to punch up our ad rates a little bit here and there, but, uh, but it is, it’s hard to be funny. I’m just not that funny on my own. how, how, how’s your mental health, Jeff.

[00:02:57] Jeff: Oh, I’m doing good. I just spent a [00:03:00] week, uh, up north in Northern Minnesota, um, on the shores of lake superior with my

[00:03:06] Brett: Oh, all the way north. All right.

[00:03:08] Christina: I was, I was, I was going to say like Northern Minnesota. Isn’t that? Just Canada.

[00:03:12] Jeff: it’s basically Canada. It’s like we go to the colder place for spring break every year. Um, it’s just, uh, we have this lovely spot. That’s much cheaper because it’s not vacation season and it has all these windows that look out on the lake and you can sit in these chairs and actually all you see is water.

[00:03:30] And, um, and, and it’s just lovely. And we, we, we cut internet and phones and like computers and laptops and everything to the extent that we can, which I’m the only one that sometimes dips back in. Well, besides my teenagers probably sneak back in, but, um,

[00:03:47] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, I was going to say like, how, how, how does the family feel about that? Like, cause that could be.

[00:03:52] Jeff: no, I mean, so this was the first year actually. So, my kids are, um, are both teenagers and this [00:04:00] was the first year where it felt like, yeah, maybe at least for one of them, like, you just need some time to just chill on your phone. Like I get it. Um, but until this time, and that was just cause it was bad weather the whole time, my bad weather, I mean, cold and cloudy and rainy and snowy, not just cold.

[00:04:18] Um, but actually, so anyway, for me, like I’ve done that this is our sixth year doing that. Um, and it’s not like a big, like, you know, it’s not like let’s get away from the evils of technology. It’s just like, what happens if our main input is the sound of waves 24 hours a day for a week, right?

[00:04:36] Brett: So, what does happen is that, is that good for you?

[00:04:39] Jeff: I just relaxed, like I love, so I do not feel like I have to do anything when there are loud waves.

[00:04:46] Cause I feel like somehow the waves are living for me. Like, they’re like, we’ll do the work over here. We’re doing the hard work, all the tumultuous stuff that’s normally going on in your head. That’s us now you just relax. And so [00:05:00] I just really let go and It’s I find it extremely easy to, um, to relax and

[00:05:05] Brett: It’s like a,

[00:05:06] Jeff: happy to get back on my phone.

[00:05:08] Brett: it’s like a really big white noise machine.

[00:05:11] Jeff: It is, it’s a perfect, in fact, my first night there, this week, I woke up in the middle of the night and I’m like, shit that I left the white noise machine. on so loud

[00:05:21] Brett: Some people, some people pay a lot of money for that.

[00:05:24] Jeff: Yeah, I know.

[00:05:25] Brett: We S we spent a lot of technology replicating your, your wave machine.

[00:05:31] Jeff: I know. And, uh, so yeah, I liked, I liked the water. I have, I have a personal relationship to that lake that goes back to my childhood. And so I’ve thrown a lot of my problems into that water and,

[00:05:43] Brett: like, not like a childhood drowning experience.

[00:05:45] Jeff: No, nothing like that. You can’t get in that water. It’s too goddamn cold all the time.

[00:05:50] Brett: I have a friend who has an, a relative who owns like a resort up in Duluth. And, uh, and he’s allowed to go up [00:06:00] there and just take a cabin anytime in the winter. So a couple years ago we went up there in January and the high temperature was negative 20 degrees Fahrenheit. And, and I was like, fine. We’re in a cabin with a fireplace and we have internet and I’m just gonna, we’re just gonna hack for the weekend.

[00:06:22] Uh, but he was going out like cross country skiing and it was like negative 50 wind chill. And he’s like, he’s like, yeah, I’ll be back in 30 minutes. And I got worried like 30 minutes later. I’m like, he’s probably an icicle somewhere out there and I’ll never find him, like the waves were coming in off of the lake and they were just freezing in like, Tide.

[00:06:46] Jeff: yeah, yeah.

[00:06:46] Brett: And there was this huge, like pile of just ice around the, around the lake. It was, I was surprised it wasn’t frozen all the way across what apparently huge bodies of water don’t do that.

[00:06:58] Christina: Huh?

[00:06:59] Jeff: [00:07:00] not that one at

[00:07:00] Brett: I live in, I live in Southern Minnesota, which is land of lakes. And we have a lot of, a lot of very small bodies of water that do completely freeze over and all winter, there are pickup trucks out on the lake ice fishing.

[00:07:16] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say like, like what, what, what’s the movie? Uh, oh, frozen river. Um, uh, the, the ups, you guys know the movie.

[00:07:26] Jeff: no.

[00:07:26] Christina: Okay. So this was, I mean, it’s actually kind of a sad, uh, film, but it’s good. It was, uh, Melissa Leo I’m I’m, uh, pretty sure she didn’t win best ask actress for it. She, um, got a best supporting actress for the fighter, but she was nominated for it.

[00:07:39] It’s um, upstate New York. And it’s like a woman who is basically driving people across a frozen river, um, uh, between like Canada and the United States. She is, she’s kind of doing human trafficking a little bit. Um, and, uh, and.

[00:07:54] Jeff: Is that, is there such a thing as a little bit of human trafficking, I guess

[00:07:57] Brett: just, just a smudge [00:08:00] disattach.

[00:08:00] Christina: well, well, like again, like I don’t want to get into the, I don’t want to like, spoil like a movie and it’s a different, it’s a completely different thing. Cause it is actually kind of a sad film, but it’s a good phone, but it makes me think of that because the whole idea is that, you know, she’s having to make these trips across, but you know, you can only go, you know, during certain times of the year, because it’s, it’s a frozen river.

[00:08:20] Whereas, you know, if it’s like just a little bit like, like this time a year, you wouldn’t be able to do it because it’d be like, thought, you know, you thought enough that if you’re driving over it, like, you know, the car could fall

[00:08:31] Brett: would be driving under it.

[00:08:33] Christina: Exactly.

[00:08:34] Brett: So, Christina, how’s your mental.

[00:08:36] Christina: It’s pretty good. It’s pretty good. Um, so, uh, in disclosure to listeners, uh, we actually recorded our previous week’s episode, like two days or like two days ago. So some of this will be kind of a rehash for, for Brett, but, um, I started a new job since we recorded last. Uh, as, as, as a trio, which is, which is great, and I’m still getting used to [00:09:00] everything.

[00:09:00] Like I still am finishing like some onboarding tasks and I’m still like figuring out what the workflow is and how to work with people. And, and my mental health. I have to say, I think it’s better because I’m in this new job that I’m really excited about. And I really love the team. And, um, I’m really excited about all that stuff.

[00:09:17] So that’s like giving me like an endorphin boost, but then there is, I was talking about this with a friend of mine, onboarding remote, even if it’s like a fully remote company is tough. It’s just, it’s one of those things that, um, there are still some tasks. I think that, that when you start a new job, even if, if you’re doing it like fully remote and I’ve done fully remote jobs before where I’ve onboarded, like when I started at.

[00:09:43] We were all remote, but there’s just a sense, I think, um, when, especially at like a bigger company, because you Mashable, there were nine people, so it’s a little bit different than the, when you’re, you know, at a company that has a, I think, I think it had like 2,500 people right now or something. Um, [00:10:00] it it’s, um, a little bit, uh, just like.

[00:10:04] They’ve done a good job, adapting the onboarding process to virtual, you know, they’ve had two years to do it, but there’s still something to be said. I think about like, being able to be around people in person, if you can, or other new people. Um, so it’s just been one of those processes where, you know, like I’m, I’m super excited.

[00:10:23] My mental health is in a good place, but I’m also kind of overwhelmed and trying to kind of figure out, okay, what are all the social structures? What are the different norms? Like what’s, what’s the way that everybody, you know, acts interacts, like what are all the cold slack channels and all that stuff?

[00:10:39] Um, I will say, and I was very, very proud of this because I had been, I’d had access to slack. I don’t know, like, like 15 minutes and before I was added to the Taylor swift slack. So by, by, by someone who, I didn’t even really, I might know them from Twitter, but it wasn’t one of those things where like, I was [00:11:00] even like close with them or anything.

[00:11:01] And then somebody, it just immediately added me to the Taylor swift slack. And I was like, okay. My brand is strong enough that I can start a brand new job. And people immediately will just add me to the Taylor. So slack. And I was like, okay. I feel like at home, you know,

[00:11:13] Brett: Does anyone does anyone to get hub listened to?

[00:11:19] Christina: I don’t know.

[00:11:21] Brett: That was the weirdest thing starting at Oracle was like having people contact me to say that they were overtired or systematic even listeners. And like my reputation proceeded me, but Oracle’s also, you know, a hundred thousand people. So out of that, there’s gotta be somebody who listens to your podcast.

[00:11:42] Christina: Right. Yeah, I have, I have no idea. I knew when I started at Microsoft, I got a number of people who heard me or who knew me from this weekend tech who reached out and, and I even met people like for lunch and stuff, which was really nice. I met a number of people like in person on campus. [00:12:00] Um, you know, because they knew me from, from that.

[00:12:02] And then I was like, I need to know people. And, and that was really helpful. And I’ve received a number of emails over the years and in like slack messages or I guess, teams messages from people when I’ve been on this speak in tech for, uh, you know, um, as a Microsoft employee, haven’t heard from anybody from GitHub yet about that.

[00:12:21] And I have a feeling they’re probably some people who listen, but I doubt that it’s, it’s like that demographic, I feel like is probably more aligned to like the, the a hundred thousand like Microsoft person thing. So I don’t know. I’m sure there, there must be a couple, but I don’t.

[00:12:36] Brett: To that end. I have been,

[00:12:38] Jeff: you.

[00:12:39] Brett: I have been thinking about I’m making this podcast nerdier. I feel like I really enjoy talking about TV and movies and music. But this gratitude list has like, it’s reminded me that there’s a whole segment of people like Jeff, who tune into podcasts to find out about new [00:13:00] apps and find out like new nerd stuff.

[00:13:03] Christina: Yeah.

[00:13:04] Brett: I think there’s a place for that.

[00:13:06] Christina: I, 100% agree. I mean, that was kind of always the Genesis of the show, which is why Jeff is so great to be part of it with us, because it was always you and I talking about nerd shit, but also getting distracted by our pop culture. Like, I don’t even think the pop culture thing was originally part of it.

[00:13:22] Like I

[00:13:22] Brett: Yeah. It, it was not when we first pitched it to Dan, it was not yet a Taylor swift podcast.

[00:13:29] Christina: right. It wasn’t, it’s so funny to think about it was not yet a Taylor’s with podcasts.

[00:13:34] Jeff: it wasn’t even a Miley Cyrus podcast.

[00:13:36] Christina: No, I was going to say that’s a great segue. Um,

[00:13:39] so

[00:13:40] Brett: do my mental health. What

[00:13:41] Christina: yeah, I’m, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry, Brett,

[00:13:43] Brett: about me? What about my needs? You guys are like sponges and you just take and you

[00:13:48] Christina: No, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. We all know that this is the Bret show.

[00:13:52] Jeff: the context, in the context of being passed over, how has your mental health and apologies friend?

[00:13:58] Brett: so, [00:14:00] so I’ve been depressed and, and I can tell right now my depression is showing up in the form of like, I. Like I hit a limit with doing work stuff and I don’t feel like watching TV and I don’t feel like eating and I don’t feel, I don’t even feel like jerking off. Like I just feel like doing nothing and that in that feels bad.

[00:14:26] It’s not like I can take pleasure in doing nothing. It feels like I should be doing something, but I can’t. And I just end up staring at walls and that is it’s horrible. I hate it. And this is happening without a manic episode proceeding it. So I didn’t even get the fun of like a five day binge without sleep. Ah, it sucks. It sucks. And part of what happened to make it worse, like it was already happening when you know that trip to Spain, that Oracle was [00:15:00] going to send me.

[00:15:00] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:15:01] Brett: And, and I hadn’t told anyone it was for sure, but I had definitely been talking about like, here’s the thing that might happen to me. And it’s so cool.

[00:15:09] It’s the first time I’ve traveled outside of north America and et cetera, et cetera. And then unceremoniously. And without actually telling me I got cut from the trip and I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna air a bunch of work laundry on this show, but it, it did not sit well with me. Uh, a could be cut from a trip and B the lack of communication around it.

[00:15:38] Uh, it was very, it was demoralizing. I was demoralized, which did not help my depression. Uh, so it’s, it’s been a week, you know,

[00:15:50] Christina: Yeah, I’m really sorry to hear that. I’m sorry, but Amy, about the depression and the, because I know what that feels like, and I’ve, I’ve had that. It’s so weird. Like you’re describing, like [00:16:00] that is been such a consistent part of my life for the last, however long, which is a problem. And honestly, I’m like, okay, this is a good reminder for me.

[00:16:08] Like, this is not normal, but, but for you, like I have, I’ve just I’m I, I have as much like empathy, because like you said, like you didn’t have the, the kickoff, like you usually, you have the, I guess, reminder that it’s going to be. Because you have the manic episode and you get the fun to that, right. You’re like, yeah, I get, I get to be, you know, cause I’ve never been manic, but I have to imagine that the way you describe it, um, in, in the other minute, people like bipolar people I’ve had in my life.

[00:16:36] Um, I haven’t imagine it’s kind of like being high.

[00:16:39] Brett: Yeah. It’s like being high for days on this.

[00:16:42] Christina: Right. So, you know, there’s a certain like,

[00:16:45] Brett: Not like being stone, but like being high on like cocaine.

[00:16:50] Christina: That’s what I mean, that’s what I mean, like, like you have that type of, of like upper type of thing and that’s, um, obviously not a good thing to happen all the time and, and it [00:17:00] can, uh, have big problems, but I would imagine like, okay, this is one of those things you’re like, all right.

[00:17:06] I at least have that aspect of it to kind of prepare before

[00:17:10] Brett: Yeah. Like the depression in that case feels like you’re paying the price for something good. And it just feels like par for the course. Um, but yeah, without that, it just feels like a penalty for existing.

[00:17:24] Jeff: Well, and that trip to like, it’s not just like, um, a business trip to Chicago was canceled. Like you gather yourself up in a whole different way in

[00:17:34] Brett: went out, I got a passport and paid for expedited, expedited delivery on a passport.

[00:17:40] Jeff: That’s right.

[00:17:42] Brett: But, Hey, at least now I have a passport, so, and unlimited vacation time. So maybe I’ll just send myself to fucking Spain.

[00:17:50] Christina: I mean, honestly, uh, you should. And, and I also, I’m sorry that that happened. I mean, like in, in corporate minutia stuff, budgets change and people [00:18:00] make various decisions, but from what you’ve told us, like, I think, I think the most egregious part, at least to me like the, the thing that I’m angriest about on your behalf is that no one even had the courtesy of telling you that you had to find out, you know, kind of secondhand.

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[00:18:18] Christina: What’s that?

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[00:19:55] Christina: Fantastic. Okay.

[00:19:57] Brett: Nailed, nailed that segway. Let’s go back to that [00:20:00] previous segue though.

[00:20:01] Let’s Talk about Miley

[00:20:01] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, can we talk about Miley Cyrus?

[00:20:03] Brett: Yeah, let’s.

[00:20:05] Christina: Okay. Okay. So I sent, um, uh, last night, uh, before we recorded, I sent Brett and Jeff, um, some homework because I was listening to like Miley Cyrus just came out with a recent live album, um, I guess from her last tour. And it included a mashup of, um, we can’t stop, which has always been one of my favorite Miley Cyrus songs, even when I was going through the number of years where I, I dismissed her as a musical icon, I always, always, always loved that song.

[00:20:38] Um, and in that is that interpolated with, um, uh, the pixie spirit, whereas my mind. And, um, I just like loved it. And, uh, we, while we were talking about some other stuff, but I have to like share a Mia culpa. I was wrong. What Miley Cyrus for a number of years, I dismissed her as like having [00:21:00] real musical longevity.

[00:21:01] And I have not had that opinion for probably four or five years, but, but I, I feel like I need to say publicly in front of God and the podcasting gods and everyone, like, I need to be like, I was wrong. Like I wrote her off as just another kind of like Disney nepotism, whatever higher for a long time. And she is actually an incredible musician.

[00:21:26] She’s an incredible artist. She’s a great performer. She’s fucking weird as hell and is very unique. And I thought it was a put on for years. I think this is why I was initially kind

[00:21:35] Brett: It did, it did feel like it in her, like at the age of like 1920, she was a bit much like, it felt, it felt put on.

[00:21:45] Christina: Yeah, no, you’re right. You’re right. Jeff, like who, who isn’t a bit much, but at that time it did feel fake and it was like, oh, you’re just trying to like overcompensate for being Hannah Montana.

[00:21:57] And you’re, you’re trying too hard and I can’t with [00:22:00] you. And, and I’m like five years older than her. So there’s also like a weird thing with me where I’m just like, Ugh, you know, this, this girl she’s, she’s trying too hard, but, but AI, I think is genuine when I look back on it, I’m like, I actually think that you’re exactly right.

[00:22:13] Like she was doing the try-hard thing the same way any 19 year old does. And B girl has some pipes and, and the musical longevity is like, is like, for real, for real, like she’s actually, I think a force.

[00:22:26] Brett: I think you guys were saying, okay, so the, the song that autoplayed right after the, whereas my mind mashup was, um,

[00:22:36] Christina: Wrecking

[00:22:36] Brett: wrecking ball mixed with, uh, nothing compares to you by prince or Sinead, like performed by Sinead,

[00:22:46] Christina: I was going to say is written by prince, but it is, everyone knows the shadow controversion

[00:22:51] Brett: man, I love the prince version too, but anyway, wrecking ball was the song that turned my opinion of Miley Cyrus [00:23:00] around that song is amazing to

[00:23:02] Christina: Yeah, it

[00:23:03] Brett: I love it to death. And then nothing compares to you. Like when I was on tour with a punk rock band, traveling across the country in a stolen you haul, I only had like three cassette tapes with me and one of them was Sinead O’Connor.

[00:23:20] Uh, with nothing compares to you. And I listened to that song so many times in the back of a smelly van with my head resting against a fucking kick drum. Like that song,

[00:23:31] Jeff: your away with two follow-up questions, which part of the kick drum.

[00:23:35] Brett: the big front side.

[00:23:37] Jeff: Okay. And then secondly, because single or the album?

[00:23:40] Brett: Did I say? Cause single,

[00:23:41] Jeff: I’m asking if it was a single.

[00:23:44] Brett: it was a, it was an album.

[00:23:45] Jeff: Okay, got it. Got it. Got it.

[00:23:46] Brett: Yeah. It was like the whole album. I forget which album that was though. Was it called nothing compares? No,

[00:23:53] Jeff: Oh, God, I should know this. Jesus,

[00:23:55] Brett: too. I think it had it, had

[00:23:58] Jeff: Moses [00:24:00] knowledge.

[00:24:00] Brett: it, had that. I am, I am asleep on your grave or whatever it was.

[00:24:05] Jeff: picture it.

[00:24:07] Brett: It was, yeah. I can see it too. It had her shaved head on the front

[00:24:10] Christina: Yeah, cause she could. Yeah. Um, I can even see it myself and it’s and I was like

[00:24:15] Brett: check the show notes. It’ll be in the show.

[00:24:19] Jeff: it’s. Oh,

[00:24:20] Christina: I do not want what I have.

[00:24:22] Brett: Yes. That’s the one I do not want what I have not got. Um, yes, excellent album. But anyway, that, that song played next, uh, in the Miley Cyrus playlist. And I like the one you sent was amazing. That one was even better. And I think you guys said you hadn’t seen her backyard performance series. I need there’s a there that series is named and I can’t remember the name of it.

[00:24:49] Uh, but she does like backyard performances on the lawn with, uh, with like music, legends, especially country music, legends, [00:25:00] and, um, w you need to find those. And if I can, if I can track them down while, while we’re talking, I will send you a link, but her voice, her voice and her musical tastes, the people she chooses to pair up with has definitely grown since the Hannah Montana days.

[00:25:19] Christina: Well, and, and even from like the bangers days, cause like I always, I thought wrecking ball was a great song and I thought that, um, uh, we can’t stop. I still think like, that’s like just such a, a banger, um, uh, single, uh, pardon the pun. But, but, uh, that was also when she was like doing like the, the, you know, fileting the microphone, like, uh, on the VMAX and doing all that stuff.

[00:25:40] And I was kind of like, it was like two steps forward, one step back. And so it was like, she, she, she, this is really when she was kind of annoying me, cause like I never really cared about the Hannah Montana stuff. I was like, okay, obviously you’re, you’re a teen, like you’re a tween pop star. Cause she’s a teenager.

[00:25:56] But, but the audience for that music unlike, [00:26:00] um, a lot of like teen pop was actually younger than teenagers, right? Like, like teenagers, weren’t listening to Hannah Montana. Um, And people grudgingly would, would sing along to party in the USA. But, but you wouldn’t tell anyone that, um, but, but like the other stuff, I was like, oh God, this is when the songs were decent.

[00:26:19] But I was like, you’re just, you know, the shadow me and Dr. Luke is writing all your, your records and this, I was wrong. This is where I was wrong. I was like, she has nothing to do with the musicality of any of this. Like even if her voice was good at or whatever, I was just like, I, I don’t, I don’t buy any of this as being her.

[00:26:37] And now I’m like, no, I, she, as you said, the artist, she works with her, her sensibilities, if you’ve ever seen any of her stuff on Howard stern, um, he’s had her perform a few times. She’s really good. She did a really, really good Metallica cover recently.

[00:26:52] Brett: I did hear that. Yep.

[00:26:54] Christina: And, and like, and you can tell like that it’s not a put on, like, she genuinely [00:27:00] has like reverence for some of these different musicians and artists and stuff.

[00:27:04] And I’m a big fan. Like I have to say I’ve like done a total 180, like I’m all in on Miley.

[00:27:10] Brett: I’ll be, I’ll be honest. Like I know this is a Taylor swift podcast, but in a competition in my personal taste, not, not like total musicianship

[00:27:22] Christina: Oh yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah.

[00:27:23] Brett: it, if it came down to what would I rather listen to in my car on the way home from the co-op or whatever I would pick Miley Cyrus. I really enjoy what she’s done in the last five, 10 years.

[00:27:37] Christina: Yeah, I, and I, and I, and I can totally understand that. I think that, um, I think Miley is still kind of like a hits, like I think the different, right. Cause I think Taylor is an album artist and Miley is like a hits artist. But, but, but I can also say like, I can totally understand why, if you’re just wanting to listen to something in your car, like, that’s it, I will say her, um, her last album that she wrote, um, that, uh, [00:28:00] that she does a lot of the songs on tour, um, from, and whatnot, which was a, it was a one with prisoner.

[00:28:05] Um, uh, what’s it called? A paper, heart, something hearts. Um, anyway,

[00:28:11] Brett: I wouldn’t know, because I don’t think like I listened to individual Miley songs. Like you said, if I’m going to sit down, I’m going to listen to like folklore front to back. Cause that’s how it’s meant to happen. But Miley, I’m going to look up a video and I’m going to look up an individual song and I’m going to hear a track and it’s going to be fun and it’s going to be entertaining.

[00:28:34] And I’m going to say, I love her deep breathy voice. That’s great, but I’m not going to sit down and I’m not going to buy a whole Miley Cyrus.

[00:28:43] Christina: Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh, and I will say, and I totally agree with that. I will say though that, um, it’s still not, she’s still absolutely like, uh, a singles artist and not an album artist, but, um, plastic carts, which was her latest record, um, is really good and, and has some [00:29:00] more introspective stuff. Um, she, she gets writing credits on it.

[00:29:05] I have a feeling and I’m not saying this like, to be like this isn’t in any way denigrating because plenty of people have different talents and whatnot, but I have a feeling that her writing credits are more like the sort of thing where you get the credit. Because you’re the artist and you’re important enough.

[00:29:24] And you want the writing credit than necessarily you were like the driving force behind writing the song.

[00:29:29] Brett: Yeah. Did you know that when it comes to, especially like in streaming services like Spotify, if you don’t have writing credits,

[00:29:38] Christina: Exactly.

[00:29:39] Brett: don’t get paid.

[00:29:40] Christina: Right. Right. Which is why you see Selena Gomez, who is the only other good Disney artist. Um, and, and, but I th I, I see her more as an actress, more than a, but again,

[00:29:51] Brett: We’re going to talk about that in a second.

[00:29:53] Christina: Yeah. But, but I, I was just gonna say, like, it’s, it’s, she’s a similar thing right. Where she gets writing credits and you’re like, Hm, [00:30:00] I don’t know.

[00:30:00] And, and maybe I’m wrong on, on Miley on this, but she does have writing credits on every track on, um, um, plastic hearts, um, and actually she’s listed as lead writer. So maybe I’m wrong on that, but anyway, it’s, she’s good.

[00:30:12] Jeff: she, in the tradition that her very unsatisfying father came

[00:30:17] Christina: Yeah.

[00:30:17] Jeff: like, what she is wonderful at is interpreting. And like that pixie song that they go into that she goes into. I mean, for whatever reason, everyone covers that particular pixie song. It’s a great song. I don’t mean for

[00:30:29] Brett: It really

[00:30:30] Christina: Oh, no, it is yet.

[00:30:31] Jeff: full of great

[00:30:32] Brett: Yeah.

[00:30:33] Christina: is it’s because by club is because by

[00:30:35] Jeff: Oh, that’s right. I forgot it was okay. Anyway, she, she does a beautiful job of that. You know, I had seen the backyard film of her doing, um, Jolene.

[00:30:45] Christina: I had seen that one too. Yeah, that was

[00:30:46] Brett: That’s that’s the series I’m talking about. Yeah,

[00:30:49] Jeff: what I think is so special about that particular performance in video.

[00:30:52] Is that more than at any point in her post Hannah Montana career, you see Hannah Montana as she’s singing [00:31:00] and what I, how I kind of took in the bangers days was I was like, okay, this is an annoying teenager, rebelling against something that I can’t even relate to. I don’t even know how much power it would take to rebel against all that.

[00:31:13] She had to swallow from age 11 to whatever, as Hannah Montana, Right. You’re going to, there’s going to be an extinction burst. Right. Which is like, sort of what. Bangers period was, and I remember kind of looking at it almost like an older brother, like, Hey, if you get through this, you’re going to be pretty fucking cool.

[00:31:31] But if you don’t get through this, this is not going to be a good end to your story. right? And, and so like, when you, what you sent last night, Christina, with the, her performance of where’s my mind, or like what’s her own song. And then she goes into where it’s like, I was just like, she’s so embodied in that performance.

[00:31:49] And so like kind of behind her eyes, and then you look at Jolene, you’re like, Hey, it kind of, I mean, no one’s story is over as we’ve learned from some of the sad, recent stuff, like mark Lanigan and even [00:32:00] Chris Cornell people that like had their like peak so long ago, but had their tragic death far later. Right. Um, like I just think that this point in her story is a very sweet one to watch. I love her weirdness. I love her fucking voice and I love her as an interpreter of songs. Like that’s great. Don’t care if she wrote them or not.

[00:32:19] Christina: No, I agree. I think she’s an amazing artist. Like I was just trying to say like, like, I think she’s like, I actually feel like, but what I was going to say about that album and everything you said, uh, Jeff was just like brilliant. And I wish that I could have said it myself was that was that she got more personal, like when she could, she wrote in her most recent, only she does write about her divorce and, you know, kind of like the ending of that relationship and stuff.

[00:32:40] And. That also takes things into a slightly different turn for her because you, if you see people, it’s kind of like, you know, uh, uh, media concoction and, and to be clear, like she was as much of, like, I think, you know, I had as much agency with that at least to get it from the bangers stuff onward as [00:33:00] anyone else.

[00:33:01] Um, but when you have kind of like that perception of someone and then you’re able to see, oh, there are, there are more like layers here, um, to, within the music. Like it it’s really interesting.

[00:33:12] Jeff: Well, and when you were talking about her writing and trying to figure out like, What it means, like did she, I was very invested cause I’m like, man, if she turns out, if it turns out that she can write a song, like, holy shit, like

[00:33:26] Christina: I agree.

[00:33:28] Jeff: I mean, like I, cause I just have to, I just have to assume in those Disney years, it’s just one of those things, you know, without knowing, like we

[00:33:35] Christina: Oh yeah.

[00:33:35] Jeff: idea what that was for her and what it’s like to grow up like that.

[00:33:40] If you can come out of that and also write some songs like, woo good. I celebrate you Miley Cyrus.

[00:33:47] Christina: And honestly like Billy Ray Cyrus is one of the worst things ever come out of like the one hit wonder country. Boom. Right. Like it,

[00:33:56] Jeff: us, he didn’t give us a little NAS X, but like what

[00:33:59] Christina: I know [00:34:00]

[00:34:00] Jeff: weirdly? You have Miley Cyrus and Lil NAS X, and then it like makes us fucked up triangle

[00:34:04] Christina: I does. It does. It does.

[00:34:07] Jeff: I did not mean to say he gave us a little NAS, X

[00:34:09] Christina: No, he did. He did little now’s actually give us a little sex. I mean, technically that, that, that, uh, it, it was, it was Nicki Minaj, uh, fandom, uh, and, uh, and that, that Trent Reznor, um, uh, stem, um, but yes, you gave us who gave us a little NAS X to me, but he gave us little NASDAQ to you’re exactly right.

[00:34:26] But, but like, but Billy Ray Cyrus, you know, not great, no one ever respected him. I think everybody rightfully like, looked at him. You’re like, okay, you’re selling your child. So you can have some relevancy, which I think is absolutely what happened. But they all came out of it pretty well. Also seems kind of like their family, they all like get high and like are kind of cool with each other.

[00:34:50] I’m kinda like, okay, you know what? Like this is the redneck family that I would totally like, I don’t think I w I don’t think I’d want to like, live with, I don’t think I would, like when I grew up that way, but like, I would totally love [00:35:00] to go over to their house and like spend the weekends there and stuff.

[00:35:04] Jeff: plus, do you know the Dolly Parton does Miley. Cyrus’s a godmother.

[00:35:07] Christina: Yes. Yes. Which

[00:35:09] Brett: I didn’t know that that is

[00:35:11] Jeff: are actual punishments for speaking against Miley stylists,

[00:35:15] Christina: yeah. I was going to say that. That’s why she, that’s why she’s allowed to cover Jolene because it’s like my, my, my, my, my, my godmother.

[00:35:22] Brett: I have, I have heard some really good covers of Jolene. Jolene is fucking amazing song.

[00:35:27] Jeff: actually her 45, but played at 33? It actually just sounds like a beautiful sort of indie rock folk boy song. Um, it’s, I’ll put it in the show notes. It’s a remarkable listen. Like it

[00:35:44] Brett: All right. Yeah.

[00:35:45] Jeff: forget instantly that you’re listening to her singing, but slower. It just sounds beautiful.

[00:35:50] Brett: Do, do you put that in the show notes? Um, so it’s time for another sponsor break. Um, I feel like this is actually like one of the least offensive [00:36:00] segues we’ve ever had because we’re all, we’re all talking in. Good terms about something. Um,

[00:36:06] Christina: we’re all happy about.

[00:36:07] Brett: Jeff, Jeff, do you want to do a sponsor break?

[00:36:11] Jeff: I would love to do a sponsor

[00:36:13] Brett: you can choose whether you do simply safe or text expander.

[00:36:18] Jeff: Well, no, that’s not fair. I would always choose. Well, I can’t say that. Uh,

[00:36:25] Brett: They’re all paying us.

[00:36:26] Jeff: is the thing. One is a thing that I would like to try. And the other is the thing that is as much a part of my life as this shitty tattoo heart on my wrist that I got when I was 22.

[00:36:37] Christina: Then then I think that’s when you got to talk about.

[00:36:39] Brett: Wait, like you got it or you did it yourself.

[00:36:42] Jeff: My, well, my roommate, who is.

[00:36:45] Uh, doing not exactly stick and poke, like he had basically an actual tattoo gun, but he was also, he just had some, some problems with his name was his name was lips. We called them lips, but it, we called them [00:37:00] the not because like he did actually, he was a kid with big lips, but like he, he had the worst smelling feet.

[00:37:06] And so we called them up. This apocalypse turned into lips and he did I see you out there lips. And he did these kind of not great tattoos. And I asked, I had my heartbroken text expander, and I asked for, um, a black heart over my, my pulse on my right wrist. And, Uh, it was the most goth thing

[00:37:27] Christina: I was going to say, this is the most emo shit I’ve ever heard.

[00:37:30] Jeff: awesome.

[00:37:31] And, and, and I still love it. It looks like a mole. Uh, you can’t tell it to tattoo, but I still love having it. It’s

[00:37:37] Brett: Just just for the record. Every one of my tattoos was done by a roommate.

[00:37:43] Jeff: Was done my roommate. Yeah.

[00:37:44] Brett: I’ve never, I’ve never been to a tattoo parlor. And I have, I have a decent number of years.

[00:37:50] Jeff: have

[00:37:51] Brett: I gave someone, I gave someone a lot of practice with their tattoo gun.

[00:37:56] Christina: Like the baby came very good, like tattooing because they were like, well, [00:38:00] Bredell is just let me practice. You’re like, oh, I don’t care.

[00:38:02] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. Well, it used to be, it used to kind of mean something to have a tattoo. Like if you, if you encountered somebody who had tattoos, like real, like, like a lot of tattoos or something, right? Like that really told you something about them. But now I, and I was always like, oh man, I’m just not as bad ass as you, but now I’m just like, oh, I’m not as much of a sports fan as you are. I’m probably not going to get that many tattoos. It just feel like it doesn’t tell us anything about the person. That’s fine because tattoos are great. And it’s a personal thing and that’s not what text, text expander is here to talk to us about.

[00:38:29] Christina: No, no, no, no, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this.

[00:38:34] Sponsor: TextExpander

[00:38:34] Jeff: Alright, text expander, keep it consistent and accurate with text expander in our fast paced world, things change constantly. Don’t you know, it except tattoos. Those don’t. change at all and errors in messaging often have significant consequences depending on your level of power, a text expander lets you make new approved messaging available to every team member instantly with just a few key strokes, ensuring your team remains consistent [00:39:00] current and accurate.

[00:39:01] Get your message right? Every time expand content that corrects your spelling and keeps your language consistent with just the few keystrokes. Your team members will consistently know the right message for the right person at the right time without relying on memory or copy and paste over time. Hi listeners. Get 20% off their first year. Visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more about text expander.

[00:39:31] Brett: I’m impressed. You got the, your team, your team members will consistently know the right message because I also always read that as constantly, uh, which I’ve had to edit in that one before.

[00:39:43] Jeff: yeah, yeah,

[00:39:44] Brett: Nice job. Nice job. Way to, way to read the script

[00:39:48] Jeff: It really feels like, I think we’ve talked about this before, but every time I read a text expanders script, it’s very clear this shift they must’ve made in the last few years

[00:39:56] Brett: to teams.

[00:39:57] Jeff: sort of personal yeah. [00:40:00] Personal productivity or personal, whatever to teams. and like, I, um, I just, I, I think that’s great.

[00:40:07] I can imagine using it that way, but I just love it as a personal user. I

[00:40:12] Brett: I think it’s aspirational. I think, I think they see a market because there is a valid use case for text expander, with a group of people like, and they built this whole sharing system this whole easy way to sync your snippets. Um, I, I’ve never worked on a team that that has sex expander, but I could easily, you know who.

[00:40:36] Okay. So I’m going to tell a quick story. Back when I worked for agile at the time, it was agile bits. Um, one password, uh, Jamie had, uh, created a text mate tool that would sync texts, uh, text expander snippets. This is before text expander had, [00:41:00] uh, easy snippet, sinking and sharing, and he created a, uh, a tool that would generate text expander snippets from, I think like a CSV file.

[00:41:11] And. For everyone who worked at agile had to take their turn doing customer support, no matter what your role at agile was, you, you worked customer support, especially when you were first starting. It’s how they like got your feet wet was you had to answer everyone’s questions and they had a series of text expander snippets that you could use to consistently and correctly answer people’s questions.

[00:41:38] And, uh, and, and that basically is exactly what text expander wants to be. And they’ve built like an actual system that no longer requires text met hacks to do it. Uh, so yeah, I get that. I get that approach.

[00:41:54] Jeff: I, um, I, every time I redo that ad read, I, I remember that I intend to, to [00:42:00] use it in our team. Um, I think it’s, it’s just on this side of power user, even as, even as incredibly user-friendly as they’ve made it. Um, that’s, that’s the one hindrance I think.

[00:42:13] Brett: So

[00:42:14] Christina: Yeah, sorry. No, I was going to say, I think you’re right. I think it’s like that one level of power user, unless you are going into something where you’re saying like, cause I do feel like if you had a use case, like for the team stuff where you’re like, okay, this is how we’re going to get things to work, everyone install and use this, this program.

[00:42:32] You could teach people of any level to do it. And they, they would just, they would just, they wouldn’t even question. They would just be like, yep, this is what it is. But you have to have like, you have to have the power to enforce that everyone, you know, use it as part of the process,

[00:42:47] Brett: All right. So we’re at, oh man. We’re just, so this is weird having video. I can like actually see your face when we talk over each other and we’re like covering our mouths. Go ahead, Jeff. Go ahead.

[00:42:59] Jeff: just to say [00:43:00] that it kind of related to what you were saying, Christina, like the experience I have, cause I’m never, I mean, like I managed some contractors and stuff, but I, I really do not position myself as a boss if at all possible, because it’s not my, it’s not my ministry. Um, That’s the big issue, which is for me, when I push something like text expander, it’s like, everyone kind of sees me as the goofy computer guy, right.

[00:43:24] Like, oh, another one of your crazy ass, like schemes or whatever, you know? And I get that right. Cause that where that comes from is there, like, I, it’s almost like they’re saying like, look, I don’t have the time and interest to learn literally. Sneaky things that make my life better. It’s just not how people prioritize always.

[00:43:42] Right. But man, with text expander, just to close that out, like, cause we did turn this into a critique of the sponsor, which I think is very fun. Um,

[00:43:51] Christina: I think that’s exactly what they were looking for.

[00:43:52] Jeff: Yeah. exactly. But clearly we love them. I mean, for me, like the biggest sell when I have So people on text expander is just like, there are [00:44:00] things that, um, no longer happened to me because of text expander.

[00:44:04] There are, there are, you know, there’s certain words where I always drop a semi-colon in, for whatever reason, my finger doesn’t go to the right place. Right. Like a door don’t for whatever reason is often Don semi-colon T. Never again. Right? Like, it’s just incredible how that, and like putting in dates and leave just little stuff, right?

[00:44:23] Like it’s so incredibly, just a part of my life. So I will end this very long. Let’s call it a very long sponsor read, but they didn’t write our dialogue by saying this is to me, like one of the greatest tools I’ve ever had on a computer. Like it’s just, it’s so simple and beautiful. There it is.

[00:44:43] Sponsor: SimpliSafe

[00:44:43] Brett: I’m going to do one more sponsor read before we get into, like, I want to talk about TV before we get to our gratitude list. Um, and it can be brief, but I’m going to get through our, our last sponsor. Read a promise. Last one.[00:45:00]

[00:45:00] Christina: Do you need me to do this one?

[00:45:01] Brett: Um, do you want to, okay. Rock and roll, Christina. You’re you’re on the, uh, you’re on the next slide.

[00:45:09] Christina: All right. So what do you S news PC magazine and popular science have in common? Well, they’ve all ranked simply safe home security as the best home security of at 2021. In fact, us news just named simply saved the best home security of 2022 as well, and simply safe protects your whole home around the clock, every door, every window and room.

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[00:46:10] And if you don’t just send it back free of charge, you can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash overtired. That’s S I M P L I S a F e.com/overtired. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera. Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simply safe.com/overtired.

[00:46:37] Selena Segue

[00:46:37] Brett: can I segue Selena Gomez and do something?

[00:46:41] Christina: Yes, please. Because that’s a

[00:46:43] Jeff: with Selema Comez

[00:46:44] Brett: Have you guys, have you guys seen only murders in the building? I’m really enjoying. I’m only, I think I’m on episode four, but I am really enjoying that show.

[00:46:55] Christina: Yes. Okay. I, I, I think that I might’ve, I thought that I mentioned it on a [00:47:00] previous show. Um, but yes, only murders in the building is awesome. It’s coming back for a second season in June, I think. And, uh, yeah, it’s great.

[00:47:10] Brett: We’ll see if they give it three seasons or not, but it is thus far. Very good. Have you seen the Jeff.

[00:47:16] Jeff: I okay. I watched the first two episodes and it, it had, it was given me like Wobegon vibes. Uh, and, and I am been told by many friends that I did not go far enough and

[00:47:29] Christina: No,

[00:47:29] Jeff: really love it. I love everybody involved. I mean, No,

[00:47:32] problem there,

[00:47:33] Brett: What you got, you got far enough to see that all the main characters have some kind of like, I won’t call it ulterior motives, but there’s, there’s a lot of mystery too.

[00:47:44] Jeff: think I did get far

[00:47:46] Brett: Yeah, you gotta, you gotta go farther. You gotta,

[00:47:49] Jeff: love Selena Gomez. I just watched for the third time, uh, the movie, um, oh my God. It’s a Jim Jarmusch zombie movie,

[00:47:58] Brett: oh, only [00:48:00] the D or the dead. Yeah. I know what you’re talking about.

[00:48:04] Jeff: got to get, I keep them. I did this. It’s even a sternal Simpson song.

[00:48:08] Brett: she in that?

[00:48:09] Jeff: don’t die. The

[00:48:09] Brett: Yeah, the dead don’t die.

[00:48:11] Jeff: Yes, she has. Uh, she, I mean she, and every other actor that has ever been in a

[00:48:17] Brett: Right.

[00:48:17] Jeff: movies and the Iggy pop in there. Carol Kane is in there like Tom waits, like Tom whites plays a character called hermit Bob and his first line is up your hole with a wooden pole, cliff, bill Murray and Adam driver.

[00:48:31] Our buddy cops is basically a very slow buddy cop

[00:48:35] Brett: Yeah, for sure.

[00:48:36] Jeff: and bill Murray. It’s just like, there’s an amazing moment. I’ll stop here. But there’s an amazing moment where Adam driver walks into the scene of a like zombie, like killing and he just goes, oh, yuck. Just to me was the funniest thing in The world. all I’ll stop there, but she was in it. She has a great, she brings the sort of George Romero night of living dead [00:49:00] references into the movie.

[00:49:01] Brett: The other, the other TVL mentioned before we get to our favorite apps is, uh, life and Beth. Um, it is absolutely worth watching, uh, Amy Schumer wrote and directed and stars in it. And it is like you’ve seen Amy Schumer’s comedy, like when she did whatever her show was called, the Amy Schumer

[00:49:28] Christina: The show.

[00:49:29] Brett: Um, like she, she, within the bounds of conventional comedy, she pushed some like feminist ideas and stuff and, and it was, it was entertaining and, and easy to watch.

[00:49:42] But this really, I think, dives into, uh, Mo modern life as a, as a 30 something person. And, uh, and I swear, I don’t know, they haven’t officially said it, but I’m [00:50:00] pretty sure her love interest is an autistic guy who lives on his own on a farm. And it is, it’s fascinating. Like it is a very unlikely pairing.

[00:50:12] It’s I’m loving it. It’s a great show.

[00:50:16] Jeff: Love Michael.

[00:50:16] Christina: I’m definitely going to watch cause I’ve always liked. I’ve always liked Amy Schumer actually. And I like the other actors who are in it. Um, it is interesting and weird that Michael Sarah, that George

[00:50:27] Brett: Yeah.

[00:50:27] Christina: now dad. Like in real life, like he’s a dad and like, that’s just, it’s weird, but I’m just like looking at the other cast list.

[00:50:34] I really like, I like, um, um, Laura Benanti and, um, I, I like Michael Rappaport and, um, I like, um, some other people who are

[00:50:43] Brett: haven’t seen Michael Rappaport yet. Is he in it?

[00:50:46] Christina: uh, that’s what this is, this is what Google is saying. I haven’t watched it yet, but

[00:50:49] Brett: cool. Um, I look forward to that.

[00:50:52] Jeff: I saw him in the trailer.

[00:50:54] Brett: Nice, nice. That that’s something to look forward to. I think I’m on episode four. I’m that one as well. I [00:51:00] started watching it around the same time I started watching, uh, only murders in the buildings, so,

[00:51:05] Christina: Okay. Great. So yeah, so only murders in the building. Um, uh, Jeff give, given another shot and, um, and Brett, you’re going to really like it. I think, um, I made grant watch it and grant was kind of like ambivalent at first, I think, frankly, because of the Selena Gomez thing. And I was like, no, she actually holds her own, I think as well as anybody could as being like the outsider to, you know, Martin short and Steve Martin, um, does like, like, I actually was very impressed with her, but then the, the, the mystery and the stuff that opens up it’s, you know, parody, it’s funny.

[00:51:36] Um, it, I’m very excited about the second season. Let’s just put.

[00:51:40] Brett: I think it’s episode three, Jeff, where. They really start to like bear the mystery to really lay open, like this second layer. Second, third, fourth, layers to the mystery. Um,

[00:51:57] Jeff: I’ll get, I’ll get back in it.

[00:51:58] Brett: yeah,

[00:51:59] Jeff: [00:52:00] I by the way, TV wise, I finished station 11 over the last

[00:52:03] Christina: Oh

[00:52:04] Brett: haven’t started. I loved that book so much and I really need to give that show a

[00:52:09] Jeff: I want you to watch it so you can tell me how it is different from the book and if I would enjoy reading it.

[00:52:14] Christina: I was going to say if, if I sh I, cause I loved the mini-series.

[00:52:18] Brett: don’t know if I’ve ever shared this with you guys, but I have ADHD and I also have bipolar, which the combination of ADHD and frequent manic episodes over a couple of years really fucks with your memory. So I’ll be honest. I remember loving station 11. I don’t even remember what it was about. I do not like I can watch, like, I’m ready to start watching say parks and rec again, because I’ve already forgotten what happens like it’s.

[00:52:54] Jeff: I started the mission impossible movie last night because my back hurt and I needed to lay on my stomach and I, and I was [00:53:00] like, I’m pretty sure I’ve already seen this, but I don’t know.

[00:53:03] Brett: Yeah, I will. I will not be able to tell you where the show differentiates from the book, because it will all be like, oh, this seems vaguely familiar to me.

[00:53:12] Jeff: it is a, it is for me.

[00:53:14] it, it goes on a list of perfect television

[00:53:17] Christina: Yeah.

[00:53:17] Brett: Nice. All right.

[00:53:19] Christina: it, it it’s, it’s incredible. Um, it was one of those, uh, I was kind of skeptical because of the, um, like the subject matter. Like even though they’d started it before the pandemic, like it, it felt like one of those things, I was like, can I really watch one of, one of these things again? But it was really incredible.

[00:53:40] And, and I was also kind of skeptical because literally everyone on the internet was talking about how it was the best thing ever. Um, after like the first two episodes, then I was like, I don’t know about that. And then I watched and I was like, oh no, this is actually, I agree with you. It’s like perfect television.

[00:53:53] Brett: How much time do you guys have

[00:53:54] Jeff: casting is

[00:53:55] Christina: I got, I got time.

[00:53:57] Brett: Jeff? How much time do you have?

[00:53:58] Jeff: I can go to like one [00:54:00] 40 at the latest,

[00:54:01] Brett: It’s one 20. Okay. So I want to get to our gratitude list, but I just realized that we have two topics from Jeff on the list that we haven’t touched. Jeff, do you want to, do you want to get to those.

[00:54:16] Jeff: I put it in the text. I said we could just leave. You were during the last ad read. I was like, let’s just leave those for another show. Cause it feels like we’re headed towards gratitude.

[00:54:25] Brett: All right. All right.

[00:54:27] Jeff: to do on, I’m happy to pick one, but

[00:54:28] Christina: Yeah. I mean, if you’re not feeling it, then we can, we can hold it over. But, but what let’s make sure that we get them at the top

[00:54:35] Brett: Are you, are you not internationally traveling in the next week?

[00:54:38] Jeff: no, no, I’m not. I don’t travel until the end of may.

[00:54:42] Brett: All right, we’ll get this, that.

[00:54:44] Christina: Well, we’ll, we’ll get to that. And, and, um, I haven’t traveled internationally in two years, but I will still share my, my travel tips because.

[00:54:55] Jeff: my big, my big topic is just for anybody who wants to think about it between one week and the [00:55:00] next two out there is those two get hub listeners is, um, is, you know, we always talk about preparing for travel and, and hacks for when we’re traveling. But I, I find the hardest part of travel after years of traveling a ton, the coming back.

[00:55:15] And,

[00:55:15] Brett: Yeah. When your family doesn’t remember you anymore and you have to like reintegrate.

[00:55:20] Jeff: getting back to your family, being home, not being in that kind of free flow of like, yeah, let’s go to dinner. Why not? You know, like

[00:55:28] Christina: Yup. Not being un-conference time. Yeah, totally.

[00:55:31] Jeff: So

[00:55:31] Brett: Alright, are you ready?

[00:55:34] Jeff: for, oh,

[00:55:38] Brett: It’s crap to two time. So where, where, where rig,

[00:55:44] Jeff: drum. If you ever want to do that, live

[00:55:46] Brett: we’re recording this week using a new system called Riverside F M and, and it is the first time we’ve ever like, kept a video on while recording. So we’re seeing each other’s [00:56:00] faces and, and we get to, we get to see each other react and we also have a soundboard built into the system and.

[00:56:11] Jeff: can only, you see it.

[00:56:14] Brett: No, if you go into the sidebar under media,

[00:56:17] Jeff: Jesus Christ, uh, sidebar.

[00:56:21] Brett: which I, you know, like I built a whole soundboard with my stream deck, but, but this is like, now I know it’s working because it’s part of the system and, and I can, I can make a, you know, a joke and then every time, so you guys, if you don’t have access to the soundboard, I’ll make sure you get access to the soundboard.

[00:56:43] GrrrAPPtitude

[00:56:43] Brett: But anyway, that brings us to gratitude, which we have never renamed and we hit the G hard. So, you know, it’s not, you know, crappy attitude. This is, this is

[00:56:58] Christina: girl.[00:57:00]

[00:57:00] Brett: So let’s talk about grips. Um, who wants to go first?

[00:57:07] Jeff: I don’t care. I’ll go if you want

[00:57:08] Christina: Yeah go.

[00:57:09] Jeff: All right. All right. My mine is, um, is the app Zotero, which

[00:57:15] Christina: Oh yeah,

[00:57:16] Jeff: yeah,

[00:57:16] just a wonderful, it’s a free tool for collecting your research in order to be able to cite it, to be able to organize it. And now they have Zotero six has come out and they actually added a PDF reader like onboard, which means that you don’t have to kind of, it used to be a place to organize all your PDFs, but like, you’d go out to some other app to edit them, which isn’t a big deal, but it’s actually extremely nice.

[00:57:40] Just stay in the app and kind of move your research paper in to your view. Um, anyway, I’m not, I’ll do a better job as to can I edit, can I just start this over? Cause that

[00:57:51] Brett: No, this is, this is life. Fuck it. We’re doing it. Live.

[00:57:55] Jeff: Then I’ll just start it over. Do you like PDFs as much as I do? Um, okay. So [00:58:00] I do, as part of my work, I do, um, qualitative research, which is like, simply put, like it’s a lot of interviewing people basically.

[00:58:07] Um, and then analyzing the transcripts of the interviews. But I also, because I’m researching topics, I also like to kind of learn what has been published about those topics. I am not myself an academic, but I, I do a lot of academic reading. And so taro exists for that. So anybody who is in a grad program doing any kind of research is using Zotero.

[00:58:27] If you go on LinkedIn, you’ll find if you search as material, you don’t even really necessarily get the people that were good Zotero. You just get everyone who lists Zotero as a skill. which is super interesting. Um, and, and it’s just a fantastic free tool that, so for me, like, because I didn’t even finish high school and didn’t go to college, but I, I work, I I’m a member owner of.

[00:58:52] Research and evaluation collaborative. And, and we do evaluation and research at [00:59:00] kind of high levels. And a lot of the people that I work with are PhDs and I am a, not even a GED. And, uh, and so I have a, a special kind of appreciation for tools that make academic work accessible. Um, and especially in the world of academia, not only is there the problem of textbooks being so incredibly expensive, turns out it doesn’t matter if they’re paper or on your Kindle or whatever, right?

[00:59:25] Like it’s always just super prohibited of prohibited, edited additive. Um, But also these software, like the software I use to do qualitative analysis, which is called max. QDA just fantastic software, super expensive. So I want to just throw out my appreciation to the developers behind Zotero, because this is the tool that’s made me feel like I can do meaningful academic ish work without having to go through this.

[00:59:53] Insult of being like, oh right. I don’t even know what half this stuff means that they’re talking about, or I can’t spend $500 to use [01:00:00] this thing. And they have allowed me to be like a much sharper researcher. Um, so anyway, and they just released, uh, Sotero six, which as I said at the very thrilling beginning, um, has, uh, has an unimportant PDF reader, which unless you’re a user of Zotero, it doesn’t necessarily sound that special.

[01:00:19] Um, I will put into the show notes, the credits, uh, on their website, showing the developers. I will say that looking over this, it is, um, it very much appears as if this is a, if this is a man heavy, um, team of people making this and I don’t ever want to recommend software without also. Just noting, who’s making it.

[01:00:42] And in this case, I’m not to take away from any of these people’s work because they’ve done a fantastic job. It doesn’t appear looking at this. Like they’re bringing a lot of diversity and in terms of like gender now, I don’t know people’s gender identity don’t know any of that stuff, but I’m just saying it doesn’t appear if I’m wrong.

[01:00:58] It’s not a sponsor read. [01:01:00] I’m wrong, I will correct myself thoroughly next week. Um, but having scanned some of these people’s LinkedIn pages and stuff anyway, all the same. Thank you to all of you. And, uh, and I love this tool, that’s it? That’s my gratitude.

[01:01:16] Brett: I wrote an integration for Zotero and Evernote back when they were both new things.

[01:01:25] Jeff: wow.

[01:01:26] Brett: I don’t even remember what year that was, but it was back in an era where diversity was not a concern,

[01:01:35] Jeff: Not a concern

[01:01:36] Brett: the middle ages.

[01:01:37] Jeff: you experienced things, right?

[01:01:39] Brett: age. Maybe been a while.

[01:01:42] Jeff: Well, they also, I should say that, I mean, one thing when we’re talking about apps, I feel like, I think about this a lot as we’re, as I’m thinking about, I cracked a tooth stuff, it’s like, what am I thinking? Who am I thinking? And Zotero is also another one of those asks that just has a huge user community creates all sorts of plugins.

[01:01:59] And so [01:02:00] also just huge props to, to that community. I really love it when there’s the combination of an app that seems basically responsive. Uh, and, and it is caring about the app and then a huge user community, as opposed to an app. That’s like, oh, well, it seems like everyone’s writing plugins out there.

[01:02:15] So we can just kind of sit over here and barely do anything anyway. Sorry. That’s me.

[01:02:22] Brett: All right, Christina, what’s your, what’s your gratitude for the apps this week?

[01:02:27] Christina: Okay. So I was having to do just some kind of image editing stuff, and I was actually having to deal with, with some vector graphics. And, and usually, you know, this is when, um, like my, my fallback has just use illustrator because I know that pretty well, but illustrator was, they were doing some sort of update.

[01:02:42] I don’t know if things were being slow. I wasn’t super thrilled with it. And so I remembered that I have the affinity tools, affinity designer, and affinity photo. And I just wanted to give my shout out to the stairlift team, uh, from, from, you know, who, who make, uh, the afinity tools, because those [01:03:00] are just some fantastic apps that I kind of feel a little bit guilty that I’ve paid as little as I paid for them.

[01:03:07] Like over the years.

[01:03:08] Brett: a piece. Yeah.

[01:03:10] Christina: Yeah, and that I’ve been getting updates for years. And, um, I have the, I have them on iOS. I have them on Mac and I have actually, um, I, I think even like the iOS and the Mac west things, I think it might’ve even been like a shared purchase. I’m not sure if it wasn’t, I got a good enough deal on it, that it wasn’t a big deal.

[01:03:27] But, um, I also bought the windows versions at one point because they

[01:03:31] Brett: Have windows versions. I didn’t know

[01:03:33] Christina: They do, they do, which is nice because at that point when, when I, um, and, and this will be less in the future, but when I have had to use windows for various work-related reasons, it’s been frustrating. If my only options were to install the whole Adobe suite or to use, uh, paint.net, paint.net as another app, actually, even though it’s a windows app that I would like to give a shout out to because the, the, um, uh, Rick, the creator, um, is a great guy.

[01:03:59] Um, [01:04:00] and, um, it is, I think it’s a free open source, um, uh, painting, um, tool for, for windows. great. Anyway,

[01:04:10] Brett: Ms. Paint.

[01:04:11] Christina: uh, but this is more powerful. This is like

[01:04:13] Brett: I should

[01:04:14] Christina: they’re like, yeah, no, no, no. The, the cooling of this it’s written in.net, which is hence the name, but, but it’s actually, it’s much more similar to acorn, um, uh, for, for, for Mac

[01:04:24] Brett: Another great app.

[01:04:25] Christina: another great app.

[01:04:26] So, so yeah, so I’m just going to go all in on kind of imaging tools, paint.net, uh, the Saraf apps and acorn, um, uh, let’s throw a pixel Mader in there too, honestly. Let’s just, let’s just get all of the Adobe competitors,

[01:04:39] Brett: not, you’re not saving anything for next week. We’re just

[01:04:42] Christina: No. I mean, we’ll, we, we, to, we, we, we can talk, we can talk more about them individually, but no, but I wanted to just get the Saraf apps, uh, just to shout out because I’ve, I’ve spent so little amount of money respectively and gotten so much value out of them.

[01:04:55] And again, like they’re more performance than the Adobe apps. Um, the Adobe apps [01:05:00] can do more things and you have different plugins and stuff. And, and, and I, I totally see the value, but I think that for like 95% of people for the stuff that they would typically use, uh, if you know, like a pirated copy of Photoshop or like a Photoshop elements or something with, um, I feel like affinity designer and affinity photo are, are great.

[01:05:23] I haven’t used the publishing tool, affinity publisher, cause I’ll be honest. I don’t design anything in print, so there’s

[01:05:28] Brett: I have, I can say it’s just as good as, as photo and designer.

[01:05:35] Christina: Awesome.

[01:05:37] Jeff: Can I jump in before you go, uh, right before you do yours. Um, first of all, just shout out to Microsoft paint. I want, I want to say that I really want to do, uh, an, an episode Of gratitude where we answer as if it were like 1997.

[01:05:55] Christina: that’s a great idea. I love that.

[01:05:57] Jeff: want to say, do you know, do you know which [01:06:00] famous musician sells art that he created almost exclusively for a period, at least in Microsoft paint.

[01:06:08] Brett: It’s gotta be Keith roasters.

[01:06:10] Jeff: It’s Ringo Starr. Uh, if you go and look at It I put a link in there. other thing

[01:06:17] Brett: so much sense.

[01:06:18] Jeff: another shout

[01:06:19] Christina: It really does. Oh my God.

[01:06:22] Jeff: another shout out to mix up fake. Cause

[01:06:24] Christina: Huge shatters Microsoft.

[01:06:25] Jeff: Yeah, it

[01:06:26] Christina: Some of this is really good too.

[01:06:27] Jeff: when We first got, uh, Microsoft paint in my house, I had, I never did drugs as a kid, or even as a, in my ever actually, except a little bit of like gummies in the last couple of years, but we won’t get into that.

[01:06:40] Um, but

[01:06:41] Brett: get into that.

[01:06:42] Jeff: who would take LSD and then ask me to make all sorts of shapes and Microsoft paint. And so I, just had to sit at my desk with my mouse being like, look, I can make this circle go like this, you know? Uh, so anyway, Microsoft paint, tons of gratitude, uh, Ringo Starr, uh, way to way to [01:07:00] make bank off of Microsoft paint.

[01:07:01] I mean, no one else figured that out. That’s

[01:07:03] Brett: I will say that as someone who for years used Photoshop and illustrator, professionally and InDesign professionally, um, the affinity apps are absolutely replacement for those Adobe apps. And I’m sure, I’m sure you can find like cracks in the facade where, you know, I don’t know what creative studio costs for subscription these days, but I used to pay $600 a year to upgrade Photoshop and,

[01:07:37] Christina: It’s like 50, it’s like 50 bucks a month, 50, 55 a month.

[01:07:40] Brett: Affinity photo does everything I need it to do. Even as someone with experience with the $600 version of Photoshop and for 50 bucks, it is, it is a steal and it is extremely powerful. And I [01:08:00] love affinity. I love Sarah ifs apps so much. My pick for this week is I thought X, uh, which I don’t believe unlike the Macco S uh, nomenclature.

[01:08:15] It is, I thought X not. I thought 10. Um, it’s also available for iPad as I thought, but anyway, I’m a mind mapper. I don’t deal well with outlines. I don’t deal well with large blocks of tax, but I think in what, what Tony Booz-Allen referred to as radiant thinking, where you have like a central idea and then nodes that come off a bit and mind maps just work the exact same way my brain does.

[01:08:45] And from the second night to stop it discovered them. 20 years ago. That’s, that’s been the way that I brainstorm has been the way that I organize. It’s been the way that I take notes. It’s been everything to me. And I [01:09:00] originally got really into mind jet my manager, uh, which is a very expensive, large commercial corporation app.

[01:09:10] Uh, and when that got cost-prohibitive, I moved on to smaller Macintosh Mac, Mac apps, and, uh, uh, I thought ax is the one that really hit all the buttons for me. Like I love my node. I love E there was one called it was one from literature and latte. That was more of like, like a concept mapping tool, grap, grapple, or I forget, but.

[01:09:41] Jeff: Then that kind of work with their like bulletin board

[01:09:43] Brett: Kinda. Yeah. Yeah. And, but I thought X really, it has like all kinds of keyword filtering and attachments to nodes and I have it hooked up so I can use it along with mark my own application [01:10:00] to write entire long posts and long documents using a mind map and like add mark down inside the notes for each node.

[01:10:11] And I can just shuffle the nodes around in a mind map and modify the output document. And that is absolutely the way I prefer to work. Um, I will, as a side note mentioned, MindMeister, uh, when I, when I want to collaborate with someone else and I want to do it in the form of a minor. Mine. My sir is like the ultimate way to have a collaborative mind map that you can actually see other people’s like, uh, position and, and nodes they add and notes they add, and you can see it happen in real time.

[01:10:50] And I’ve actually worked with Jeff in a mind Meiser mind map, uh, recently actually. And it is [01:11:00] it’s worked really well. So shout out to MindMeister as well.

[01:11:04] Jeff: Yeah, it’s fun. Uh, one quick, uh, follow up, which is kaleidoscope, which Christina, you had mentioned a bit ago. I did the trial. I will admit I have not paid for it yet, cause I’m not sure that it makes sense for me to, but man, I love it. I had so much fun playing around with it. It’s so elegant. It’s so beautiful.

[01:11:25] It’s so intuitive. I was so thank you for pointing me in that direction.

[01:11:30] Christina: Yay.

[01:11:32] Brett: User testimonial. All right. Well, all right. That brings us right, right up to Jeff’s hard out time. So, uh, thanks. Thanks you guys. That was, that was, I’m going to call that a good episode. That was nice.

[01:11:46] Christina: I think so.

[01:11:47] Jeff: fun.

[01:11:48] Brett: and if all goes, well, Riverside will provide me with three different files now that I can easily turn into an episode.

[01:11:54] So if you’re listening to this, it means it worked and, and [01:12:00] we will contact Riverside and ask them to sponsor us. All right. Thanks. You guys. You get some sleep.

[01:12:06] Jeff: You get some sleep.

[01:12:07] Christina: You get some sleep.