263: The One With Victor

Victor Agreda Jr. joins Brett and Christina to talk about magic, ADHD, nerd shit, and more. Then too much about Fish shell because Brett is too overtired to have any impulse control.

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Overtired 263

[00:00:00] Christina:

[00:00:04] You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren. I am joined by my cohost as always Mr. Brett Turkstra and a very, very, very special guest. Our friend breaths, uh, colleague, um, both of our former colleagues in another life. Uh, the guy who frankly is responsible for Brett and I like knowing each other to begin with all around great guy, um, uh, comedian, um, magician.

[00:00:29] We’re gonna talk about that. A bunch of other things, Mr. Victor agreed at junior Victor, Brett, how are you?

[00:00:36] Brett: I think we’re good.

[00:00:38] Victor: Yeah,

[00:00:39] Christina: sorry. That was like way more excited than I probably should have been considering. We’re recording this in the morning when I’m tired, but I am very happy, uh, that, that Victor is joining us.

[00:00:50] Brett: We’re on the cost. We’re recording on Saturday, which I actually really liked cause it’s super low stress and I don’t feel like I’m like cheating on work, but we’re at that point where, [00:01:00] for me it’s noon for Victor it’s one. And for you it’s 10:00 AM. And on a Saturday, like we usually do the show at six in the morning.

[00:01:07] So like saying 10:00 AM is too early is weird, but

[00:01:10] Christina: It’s not that it’s too early. It’s just, I, okay. I went to bed at like, I don’t know, like four

[00:01:15] so,

[00:01:16] Brett: shit, that’s your problem right there.

[00:01:18] Mental Health Corner

[00:01:18] Christina: well, that is my problem right there, but it no lots of problems, but, um, anyway, I’m super excited. Victor’s here. Um, how’s everybody’s mental health doing?

[00:01:27] Brett: I gotta, I gotta tell ya. I gotta tell ya. Um, I’m curious about Victor’s mental health, but I feel like I need to explain the stupidest manic episode ever.

[00:01:38] Christina: Yeah.

[00:01:39] Brett: So like I had a couple of weeks of. I thought I was stable, but I began to realize about a week ago that I was actually like low grade depressed. And that’s why, like, I felt like demoralized every day at work, it felt like everything was going wrong and everyone hated me and they didn’t Dawn [00:02:00] on me.

[00:02:00] Cause depression is sneaky. It didn’t Dawn on me that I actually had like, like a, um, a mental health issue, not a horrible job. Um, and then all of the sudden it happened the day after I got vaccinated, I got my flu and booster shot. And the next day I was, I woke up and I was productive and I was like super good at communicating with people.

[00:02:25] And I thought, oh shit, I might be going manic. But I was like, calm. I was just, I was, I felt productive and normal. And then that night I fell asleep. But I woke up early enough that I knew I had to be slightly manic, but it was, I normally, when I’m manic, like it’s no problem to focus on things. It’s no problem to stay awake and uh, just get shit done.

[00:02:55] And I do a lot of stuff. And this one I’m just [00:03:00] super tired. I’m calm, I’m slow, but I’m not sleeping. And so I’m just like going, I have this wall I’m pushing through right now. So I’m really tired. And if I’m an asshole to anybody, I apologize. I have like no filter and very little impulse control right now.

[00:03:18] And I’m crabby because I’m tired. So that’s, that’s my mental health corner. Right.

[00:03:23] Christina: Okay. So stupidest, manic episode ever. Crabby tired. Okay. But you’ve, you’ve also been productive, which we’ll we’ll talk about. Um, Victor how’s, how’s your mental.

[00:03:33] Victor: Uh, I can tell you, I can identify with the, what Brent was talking about. And I don’t know that that’s like super stupid, cause I’ve felt like that as well.

[00:03:43] Let me tell ya. I, uh, years ago back when web mastering used to be a thing, I couldn’t get my computer online for four days because of a misconfigured, uh, wind sock proxy file. And, uh, that was embarrassing. Um, and [00:04:00] so lately I have come to peace with a lot of things. And so it’s actually been really good other than not getting a lot of sleep the other night because the lunar eclipse we’ll blame it on the moon.

[00:04:09] Brett: What did the wind sock proxy you have to do with your mental health? That like that was a disconnect.

[00:04:14] Victor: That’s that’s exactly right. You just encapsulated the entire thing. It was a disconnect and. The biggest thing for me has been, uh, dealing with ADHD. Um, and I’ve been able to manage it. Like, I think I’ve hit a plateau where I’ve been able to manage it lately. So that’s been super, super good, uh, to get in that groove.

[00:04:35] Brett: I, uh,

[00:04:36] Victor: Y’all, y’all seem like old hands at that. So I’m just saying this is a, this is all

[00:04:39] Christina: new shit. And if it doesn’t mean we’re good at it, at least, I mean, I don’t wanna speak for Fred, but I mean, like, I definitely go through periods of time where I’m like, yeah, I am not handling this well, like this is fucked up.

[00:04:50] I am not doing a good job of this.

[00:04:52] Victor: Yeah. And well, and coming to accept, like, seeing that, you know what I mean? That’s, that’s been a big thing for me because otherwise I would’ve just ignored [00:05:00] it and been like, ah, just barrel on forward forward. But now, uh, just that realization, that awareness, which is a big part of like the mindfulness work that I’ve been doing.

[00:05:07] So yeah.

[00:05:09] Brett: here’s the problem. Here’s the problem for me with the ADHD. Like, um, I, I take stimulants. I treat it pretty well, uh, on a good day. Everything’s fine. I feel like a normal person with the medication. Um, I’m not great at like forcing myself to do things I don’t want to do, but I’m pretty relaxed about forgiving myself for that.

[00:05:34] The problem is I also have bipolar disorder and the treatment of ADHD with stimulants, uh, affects the exact same receptors that can trigger manic episodes. And so I’m walking this very. Uh, a thin tight rope between productive and manic all the time. And if I didn’t take the stimulants, I don’t think I would have [00:06:00] nearly as many manic episodes, but I can’t not take the stimulants.

[00:06:04] Like I do not. I do not function as like an employee without the stimulants. So it’s, I’m working with my doctor. We’re going through some med changes right now. I got to get this ship nailed down, but it’s a real tight rope walk.

[00:06:21] Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:21] I don’t, I I’m lucky I don’t have the man except that I had to deal with, but I am in the same thing where like, sometimes like, yeah, like, I, I don’t like to force myself like you into doing stuff. I don’t want to do all those. Sometimes I have to. Um, that period of time when I ghosted my shrink and it was all bad, like I definitely, I need a simulator.

[00:06:42] Like I need them flat out. It’s just one of those things. And, um, the, the, the periods in my life when I’ve like, tried to avoid that, uh, approves that, so. Okay. So, well, um, Victor, uh, what else have you been up to you? How, [00:07:00] how, how things, how are things going in your life otherwise,

[00:07:03] Victor: otherwise, uh, you know, pretty swimmingly actually, it’s, it’s such a pleasure to work with Brett again.

[00:07:08] And, um,

[00:07:09] Brett: even though I’m an asshole all the time,

[00:07:11] Victor: we’ll see. That’s the thing, man.

[00:07:12] I’m

[00:07:12] Brett: I threatened to punch you down and kick you in the Dick the other day.

[00:07:17] Victor: well, first of all, I know you pretty well. And so that, that doesn’t bother me, but, uh, the other thing is that I’m always worried about being an asshole. So we have this great, like. Uh, set of boundaries based on negative reactions, I guess a negative reinforcement field. That’s what

[00:07:36] it

[00:07:37] Brett: I feel like I’m better at being grumpy than you are.

[00:07:40] Victor: Oh my, well, now that’s quite the challenge. Wow. Wow. God led has been thrown.

[00:07:44] Brett: like when you’re in a zoom meeting, uh, with people who might not know you very well, you, you, you let your responses are measured and you usually try to, uh, answer in the [00:08:00] affirmative and like find a way to make things look happier. And I definitely do not have that skill.

[00:08:07] Victor: I very much appreciate that. And let me tell you who I learned that from was Brad hill, who you both know and remember as being that kind of guy who was just like a diplomat, uh, and he and I used to love to watch and talk about star Trek next generation. And so it’s like I’ve channeling trying to channel my Picard at work and be diplomatic and, uh, and yet from right.

[00:08:29] Brett: I’m channeling my malfunctioning data.

[00:08:33] Victor: Well then we’re the perfect pair.

[00:08:36] Vax4All

[00:08:36] Brett: Yeah. Um, um, D D did you get your booster? Uh, Christina,

[00:08:42] Christina: I did. I got it on two.

[00:08:45] Brett: did you also get a flu shot?

[00:08:47] Christina: Um, I got a

[00:08:48] flu shot the week before I did not do the double thing, which I’ve heard is a, I mean, like it’s allowed, but, um, from friends who I’ve talked to, who did it, they were like, yeah, that was not a great idea. [00:09:00] Um, I actually tried to do it at the same time and they were like, yeah, if you want to get them together, you won’t be able to get them until December.

[00:09:05] And I was like, fuck that. So I had to separate, I had to get them at two different places.

[00:09:10] Brett: I got mine wondering he charmed same visit. And honestly, the next day wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

[00:09:18] Christina: Yeah.

[00:09:19] I gotta say that the next day, because you were Pfizer. Right? Okay. So yeah, also Pfizer, the recovery was better for me than the, the second dose of like the shot. The second is the shot, like kicked my ass and then this one, I was like, well, my arm hurts a lot and I’m feeling kind of lethargic, but it’s not like, I feel like I was literally hit by a car.

[00:09:39] So, um, Yeah, it was it’s it’s been good. Um, Grant’s had more arm pain has felt like it finally went away, but he had arm pain and stuff that he blamed on the flu shot too. I don’t think that’s the flu. I don’t think either of those are necessarily just the shots. I think some of it is just that he’s getting old and doesn’t take care of himself, but [00:10:00] yeah.

[00:10:00] But no, I, I got, I got my shots and the thing is, is that there were some people who were like, oh, well, how did you, how did you get it? You know, you did, did you fill all the requirements? Whatnot? And I was like, yeah, I’m going to be totally honest. I followed the rules. Last time I even volunteered twice, like to give, like to help with the vaccine, like process in, um, Seattle.

[00:10:21] So I could, you know, like jump the line by what turned out to be like a week or whatever. Um, because I felt guilty even though like grant met the extended requirements and, and I probably technically did if we’d really wanted to be pedantic about it, but I just, I felt like I didn’t want to be that asshole who like took someone’s spot.

[00:10:39] And then, uh, with the, the, um, guy that clinic, like w at the mass backside study, it was like, the name of the game is shots in arms. Don’t care whether people, you know, fit it or not. So if you find an appointment, get it. And that’s kinda how I felt this. And I was like, I’m I’m saying that I fit the requirements and sure enough, like yesterday they [00:11:00] announced that everybody is capable and I’m like, yeah, you know what?

[00:11:02] I’m sorry, but like, fuck this. Like, I I’ve done everything right. At a certain point, no one else is following those rules. And if you got open appointments that no one’s gonna be taking, then I’m going to go ahead and take the appointment. Like, fuck it.

[00:11:15] Victor: It’s a numbers game. And you know, it’s not like filling a, an airplane.

[00:11:19] Right. They should, a lot of people have said that they should’ve just had like full on gates, open everyone gets it, but you know, that would have been madness. But right now, yeah, like I was able to just go online to Walgreens and like schedule a thing. And I got both shots and basically had the same experience, uh, as y’all, it’s like a little fatigued the next day hurt.

[00:11:41] And my arm, I was surprised that the combination of flu and COVID didn’t, uh, didn’t, uh, hurt more. But, and I also got Pfizer as a booster, even though I got J and J back in spring, uh, which is interesting, but.

[00:11:54] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, there was this interesting thing in the wall street journal, um, about like what the efficacy is when you [00:12:00] mix and match.

[00:12:00] And in Pfizer’s obviously boost big time, uh, with any of them. I’m not Pfizer Johnson, Johnson boost epic time with any of them, but it is interesting that you can get like more antibodies depending on how you mix and match. But this is the fucked up thing, even though the CDC is completely approved that, um, other than for Johnson and Johnson, which, you know, you have to give somebody like a Pfizer or Madrona booster, um, they will not mix and match at a lot of the pharmacies like Walgreens as the policy.

[00:12:28] If you, even, if you go, when you click, you’re like, okay, I had Madonna now I want Pfizer. Or I had Pfizer now at Madrona. They’re like, no as policy, we don’t have. Um, and, and I got mine at Bartell’s, which is a local pharmacy chain that I think is now owned by Rite aid, but that’s a recent thing. So it’s, it’s, it’s a bit, it’s, it’s a Puget sound, um, a chain, um, and, um, uh, the pharmacist, she was real nice, but she was like, over and over again, she was like, you’re getting Pfizer.

[00:12:56] Right. And you’re getting Pfizer because I don’t want to mix in, I don’t want to mess things up. And I’m like, [00:13:00] I mean, yes, I’m getting Pfizer, but if you gave him a darn, it’s not the end of the world, because you can mix and match. And she was like, well, I, I’m not, I’m not sure. Like, so it feels like, you know, the, the knowledge about that hasn’t quite gotten out.

[00:13:13] And obviously the point of that is not to, um, for people to like game it, to get the best combination.

[00:13:20] Um,

[00:13:21] Brett: I feel like that, that thing though, I’m sure

[00:13:23] Christina: oh, for sure. Oh,

[00:13:24] Brett: bespoke, bespoke, vaccinations.

[00:13:27] Christina: Oh yeah.

[00:13:28] Brett: when I showed up, they gave me a fill in, like I just showed I’d walked in to the clinic and they handed me a sheet and you had to choose either. This was right before the CDC changed the rules. So I had to choose either I was high risk because of health reasons or high risk because of.

[00:13:46] Uh, workplace exposure. You just had to pick one of those. No questions asked. They didn’t ask how are you high risk or anything. And, and I feel fine. Cause obesity is, is a qualifier. So is ADHD in some states. [00:14:00] But anyway, you could just check the box for the, uh, for the vaccine you wanted to get and they would stick it in your arm.

[00:14:08] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, that’s, that’s probably the way to do it. And yeah, I mean, I think for me, I think the, the w I don’t know if we even had to like, choose the, the difference thing. I think for grant, I chose health reasons. He qualified, and for me, I was like workplace exposure, which hasn’t been asked too recently, but certainly in the past, like year I’ve been in situations where I’ve done like full on production shoots and, and I feel, you know, I’m like, okay.

[00:14:31] Yeah. Like, I feel like I’m potentially much higher risk than I’m certainly not the same way as like somebody who’s working, um, you know, as at a restaurant or, or, you know, a salon or whatever, but you can make steps, say whatever it says. Um, and, and like Victor said, it’s a numbers game, but yeah, they, it seems like it’s, it’s different place to place, but, um, but yeah, I got my, I got my advisor and.

[00:14:53] Um, I’m good. Um, I’m glad you got yours in separate arms. My friend Katherine was dumb and got them in both, got them in the same arm. And I [00:15:00] was like, I was like, Catherine, why did you do that? They told you like one on each thing. She was like, I don’t know. Walgreens just gave it to me one in the same room.

[00:15:07] I was like, all right,

[00:15:09] Brett: That’s weird, like the same nurse stuck it in the same arm twice.

[00:15:13] Christina: probably.

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[00:16:59] Brett: [00:17:00] Magic.

[00:17:01] Magic Is Everywhere or some shit

[00:17:01] Christina: Gotcha.

[00:17:02] Brett: That was actually, that was a secret segue.

[00:17:05] Christina: Yeah. Talk to us about magic,

[00:17:06] a Victor

[00:17:07] Victor: just like magic. Um, yeah. Uh, well, not a lot of people know this because I’ve not done a lot of magic for other people. Um, I’m more like the researching type of magic nerd and collecting magic nerd, but, um, I’m very much a magic nerd got into it when I was a kid, like a lot of magic nerds.

[00:17:26] And, uh, there’s a, there’s a book out that I highly recommend to anybody who is curious at all about magic. And it’s not like the secrets behind stuff, because that’s obviously that kind of ruins it, you know? Um, it’s like if you made a cake and you couldn’t taste sweet, it would, it would not be a great cake.

[00:17:45] Right. It’s purely textual experience, which, uh, I think I did have COVID a while back by the way and lost my sense of taste. And that was a really interesting, so it’s kind of like that. Well, there’s a great book by Joshua J uh, called how [00:18:00] magicians think that I highly recommend, uh, everybody read, honestly, because it’s his love of magic.

[00:18:06] And he talks about why it’s so compelling as an art form. Um, and it’s, you know, it’s one of those things. It’s not like music where you can just kind of chill out and enjoy it. You have to be actively engaged in, Hey, it’s like a lean forward experience as Steve jobs would say, but it is, you know, you have to really engage your mind.

[00:18:24] And yet at the same time, you’re tricking your brain.

[00:18:27] Christina: So you, you engage your mind, but you also have to have a certain amount of a suspension of disbelief and like, watch it, right. Unless, unless you’re. Now when you watch magic shows, are you trying to figure out the trick? Are you enjoying it? Like what, what’s your

[00:18:41] Victor: that’s, that’s the thing, you know, sometimes, uh, I can sit back and enjoy it.

[00:18:46] I, when I went and saw Penn and teller, um, I was absolutely able to enjoy it now, afterwards I was picking it apart and now I read stuff or I see clips and I’m like, oh right, okay. Uh, let it, you know, but in the moment, [00:19:00] um, I’m able to just kind of let go, partly because my memory issues and I’m just like, oh, I’ve I’ve, you know, whatever get lost in won’t, but that’s the really magical thing about magic is like, it transports us back to when we were a little kid and we experienced wonder at everything.

[00:19:16] Right. Everything was new and it’s that childlike mind that. And so that really is fascinating to me. Um, so yeah, if you’re at all curious about magic is a great book and that’s, that’s why I love magic. There’s my little essay on

[00:19:27] Christina: it. Nice.

[00:19:29] Brett: I’ve always wondered, like with comedy, most comedians are they’re broken in some way. They have some trauma, some mental health issue, like, you know, and this is it’s what makes comedy gold, uh, is. Is magic similar. D did you get into magic out of like childhood pain or was it truly just child, like, like curiosity and wonder?

[00:19:58] Victor: you know, that’s, that’s, that’s a really good question [00:20:00] because I’ve, I’ve tread in both realms as they say, and in middle earth. And, uh, uh, I think that the most magicians that I’ve. Are just more positive, like overall they’re more optimistic and, and it’s, I think it’s part of that childlike wonder thing.

[00:20:17] Like you have to be able to let your guard down. Whereas most comedians are very cynical, uh, and on purpose, like that’s where you get your humor. As you look at things from a completely different angle, magicians look at things from a different angle too, but they’re also trying to evoke a completely different, um, sort of emotion, uh, you know, and ironically though, both use surprises as, as a sort of way to trigger that emotion.

[00:20:46] Christina: Yeah. An illusionist mike.

[00:20:52] And it’s from a Russ development we demand

[00:20:54] Victor: to be taken

[00:20:54] Christina: seriously. In addition, you know, magicians are a thing that, you know, tricks are thing [00:21:00] that, that, that, that, uh, people do for money that, that whores do for money or Mandy.

[00:21:05] Victor: Yeah. The thing is, is that there’s a lot of magic out there. That’s done very poorly and there’s a lot of copycat stuff and the art form has, I mean, it’s, it’s struggled, but at the same time, it’s, it’s just a completely different type of thing.

[00:21:17] Like, it, it, it should always be a very niche sort of thing because it’s, again, it’s not like music where you can just enjoy it in the background, even with movies and TV. Sometimes we use them as comfort. Once you’ve seen a trick, you can’t go back, you know, and you can’t unsee that. And yeah. So watching magic over and over again is not really a thing.

[00:21:36] You crave new experiences.

[00:21:38] Christina: Right, right, right. I mean, I think that’s why, like I love Penn and teller. Um, I’ve never seen them live, but I would love to. Um, and cause I think that they do like.

[00:21:46] Brett: Can I see that? Did I go with you Victor to see

[00:21:49] Victor: did. Yup.

[00:21:51] Brett: Vegas baby.

[00:21:53] Christina: Yeah, I was going to say, I would love to see them, um, see one of their shows. Um, cause I, I find them very interesting in a lot of [00:22:00] levels, but they’re branded like the way they deconstructed the entire magic kind of genre in the fact that they show the reveal.

[00:22:06] But yet it’s still, even as you’re seeing how they’re showing you the trick, you’re still mesmerized and you’re not paying attention because they’re the humor. I think Penn and teller are fucking brilliant.

[00:22:18] Victor: Yeah. Yeah. They really are. Uh, another guy, if you’ve not seen Derek Delgado’s, uh, in and of themselves, uh, in and of itself, sorry on, uh, I think it’s on Hulu.

[00:22:28] Um, check that out as well is incredibly evocative. I mean, it’s the kind of thing that will make you cry and very few magic shows will make you.

[00:22:36] Christina: Oh, I will check that out. I’m not, I’m not, not like a huge like magic nerd or whatever. Um, but as a kid, you know, most of us, I got into magic. Um, although I wasn’t that good at it.

[00:22:46] So for me, it was interesting. It was one of those things. It’s kind of like me in sports where like I’m more interested in kind of like the process and kind of the story behind it and the dramas and whatnot associated with it. Like rather than, you know, maybe like [00:23:00] the, like performing and perfecting the art form itself.

[00:23:04] Um, which I think is why like Penn and teller, it’s why I’ve liked reading about, you know, things that David Blaine has done. And, and, and like, uh, like, like his Ted talk about how he held his breath, you know, for, for 22 minutes or whatever, which was still like one of my favorite Ted talks and, um, and, and others, I mean, honestly it is, it’s like a really, really good Ted talk and, and those things are kind of incredible.

[00:23:25] Um, but I was always obsessed with, um, um, Houdini, um, as a kid. Was for you when you got into magic? Like, was it like, did you, do you read something? Did you see something? Like, what was it that sparked that, that interest in you?

[00:23:40] Victor: Um, yeah, you know, I got a, a, a top hat full of magic that I think my grandparents bought it, like KB toys in Winston-Salem mall back in, I don’t know when, but I was little, uh, and a lot of people get into it with like one of these childhood magic sets, which is why you still see magic sets sold today.

[00:23:57] Uh, but for me, it was also, [00:24:00] I think my first tenure trick where I. Like it was this whole experience, right? Where you, the packaging was a certain way and the directions were a certain way. And the mechanics and the engineering of it really, uh, was a thing. So if you look up 10 year old magic in Japan, uh, they do a lot of stuff with Disney, actually doing puzzles, uh, printing puzzles and whatnot, but they have this sideline where they release a few magic tricks every year.

[00:24:25] And this was the eighties. Uh, and they do like four or five tricks a year. And I just happened to get a couple. Um, and I started finding out more about the company as it was like, it was like the apple of, of, uh, of magic because they had this sort of like standard. They had a very high standard, a lot of magic tricks.

[00:24:44] They come with like these photographs or, um, uh, mimeographed typed up instructions. So there’s like low budget. I mean, it’s kinda hokey and fun, but Tanya had this like much higher standard. In fact, Alan Parsons. Of the Alan Parsons project did the [00:25:00] translations back in the eighties. Oh, wow. I had no idea up until a

[00:25:03] Christina: few years ago. That’s actually kind of awesome, but I’m not going to lie. Like, I didn’t know that. And so, so does he speak japanese? Yeah.

[00:25:12] Victor: Yeah. Fluent Japanese. Yeah.

[00:25:15] Christina: Awesome. And he’s expert and he’s like a good enough like translator to be able to that’s actually hold on out. Okay. Today I learned that’s actually a really fun, fun time.

[00:25:26] Victor: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So that’s, that’s what got me into it. And then I found out about their design process. Uh, when I was a kid, I went to New York Tannen’s magic store, which is still there and bought a book or a magazine. And I had a thing like here’s how they designed the tricks at 10 yo. And I’m telling you to this day, that’s what got me into software documentation.

[00:25:46] Like, everything that I do now was because of that, because I learned that it wasn’t just, some guy was like, oh, how do I do a, you know, an undercut differently or whatever the heck. It was a whole team of engineers and magic nerds who got together and [00:26:00] created these highly designed tricks, uh, designed for kids to like, learn how to do magic.

[00:26:05] It was amazing.

[00:26:06] Christina: I

[00:26:06] love that. How cool is that? That’s awesome. So I’m glad that that was on the list, cause that I wouldn’t have thought to ever even talk to you about magic, but like that’s awesome. And I love that it’s had that kind of impact. Um, and those, those other things that’s really cool.

[00:26:23] Victor: That’s good stuff.

[00:26:24] I’m the nerd about

[00:26:25] Christina: it? No, I mean, well, look, this is a podcast about nerdy shit, so that, um, speaking of nerdy shit, Brett, do you want to tell us about tax

[00:26:34] Guest: expander?

[00:26:34] Brett: Oh, man. I really do. What was that? Yes, I, I, I got, I started writing show notes and I stopped hearing what you guys were talking about.

[00:26:46] Guest: I know,

[00:26:46] Brett: track of the conversation.

[00:26:48] Christina: know. I knew that you

[00:26:49] Brett: And then I realize I’m like, I’m why am I writing show notes? I’m doing a podcast right now. And yeah, so that’s where my brain’s at.

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[00:28:11] Just in case you were wondering textexpander.com/podcast back to you, Christina,

[00:28:17] What Are You ADHD or some shit?

[00:28:17] Christina: All right. Thank you, Brett. So, so that’s um, so I, I, I actually, it’s funny cause I, I picked up on the fact that you weren’t talking to us and I was like, oh, he’s completely tuned out. Um, and uh,

[00:28:29] Brett: it wasn’t a purpose. It had nothing to do with like, I don’t know what you were saying, so I can’t tell you that there was any reason I spaced out.

[00:28:37] Christina: No, no, no, no. I got it. And I looked, and I saw that you had updated the show notes because I, um, I was, um, finding the David Blaine, Ted talk thing. Um, and, um, uh, but cause, cause my, my ADHD food is good in the sense that I can be like doing something like that while I’m talking to someone and carry on the conversation and if I’m actively involved in the conversation, then I can like even be writing something and like [00:29:00] be totally fine.

[00:29:01] But if I’m not talking and I’m doing that, then I am going to completely like zone out on what’s

[00:29:07] Guest: happening around.

[00:29:07] Brett: And it gets way worse when you’re really tired over tired.

[00:29:11] Christina: overtired name, name of the show on the 10, but this actually is a good thing. Cause I’m looking at our shows and there are these how to ADHD

[00:29:18] Guest: stickers.

[00:29:19] Brett: Yeah. I just, I threw this on there because we’ve talked about the, how to ADHD YouTube channel before, and I’ve been a Patrion supporter of them forever and I’m pretty sure I never got my name in a video. So. And, and you get, uh, like higher, like elevated discord access with it, but I never use it. So I’m basically, I’ve just been throwing money at this channel and, and just watching the videos, like everyone who doesn’t pay, but just randomly in the mail last week, I got a letter from how to ADHD and inside were stickers, perfectly sized to cover my laptop [00:30:00] with and no note at all.

[00:30:02] No, thank you. No, nothing. Just a sheet of stickers. And I said, Hey, good enough. We all have ADHD. It’s surprising we get anything done.

[00:30:12] Christina: no, I was going to say, actually that seems like, kind of like the perfect, like, uh, like ADHD way of sitting. Something’s like, here you go. No contacts, no information, but here’s your shit. We’re sorry.

[00:30:22] Guest: It’s late.

[00:30:22] Brett: I remembered this stamp and I put the thing in the envelope. What more do you want from me?

[00:30:26] Christina: I exactly, you’ve got your damn stickers. Be happy that it got done. Um, also we spent an, uh, we probably spent an incredible attention to detail to make sure the stickers were as we wanted them to be. Um, and, and, and hyper-focused on those details. So yeah, no, I’m looking at their, um, at their, they have like t-shirts or something, I guess, uh, on their website right now that you link to.

[00:30:52] Um, and some of those other schools they’re based in Seattle, uh, at least their PO boxes. So I’m assuming they are. Um, but,

[00:30:59] Guest: uh,

[00:30:59] Brett: [00:31:00] There’s like a whole team now. I think they’re like a bunch of remote help with it. Uh, like

[00:31:05] Christina: Probably probably all I know is their PO box is not far from where I

[00:31:08] Guest: live.

[00:31:10] Brett: maybe you should see if you can meet Jessica. She, she, she seems very nice.

[00:31:14] Guest: No, I was

[00:31:15] Christina: actually kinda thinking, I was like, Hey,

[00:31:17] Guest: that would be cool.

[00:31:18] Brett: man, what if we could get her on the podcast?

[00:31:20] Christina: see that’s what I’m saying.

[00:31:22] Guest: See

[00:31:23] Brett: Oh, man.

[00:31:24] Guest: baby. They give her

[00:31:25] Brett: This would just be an ADHD pocket. We should only have people with ADHD on,

[00:31:31] Guest: I mean

[00:31:32] Brett: and we couldn’t have Aaron back though.

[00:31:34] Christina: yeah, so that’s what I’m saying. We like Erin and that feels elitist. I don’t know. Like I think that the Mo most people have, I don’t know. I feel like everybody’s a little bit neuro-diverse but um,

[00:31:45] Brett: neurodivergent

[00:31:47] Guest: yeah, there you go.

[00:31:48] Brett: I got corrected on that the other day.

[00:31:50] Guest: oh really?

[00:31:51] Brett: Like people can be neurodiverse, but a person is neurodivergent who versus whom

[00:31:59] Christina: Oh, right. Yeah. [00:32:00] Yeah. Yeah. I’m usually better with that grammar shit, but fuck it. It’s, you know, we’re tired. Um, okay. But, but, uh, but I’m seeing that that’s so funny that you just like, got like this like envelope of stickers. You’re like,

[00:32:09] Guest: okay,


[00:32:10] Brett: Very, very random. All right. Especially since I’ve been like a Patrion subscriber for over a year and never. Yeah. It’s about time, I guess.

[00:32:21] Christina: Yeah. So I I’m, I’m a, I’m an accomplice for a defector are either of you familiar with defector.

[00:32:27] Brett: No.

[00:32:28] Christina: So do you remember Deadspin

[00:32:30] Brett: Yes.

[00:32:31] Christina: okay. So Deadspin imploded in spectacular fashion two years ago because they were given a mandate by the, um, like corporate older overlord, like piece of shit vulture, like, um, uh, what are they?

[00:32:44] Um, uh, not venture capitalists, but the, um, Um, hedge fund, like a Fox who, who bought it, um, uh, who bought geo media or bought. So they bought, uh, like, uh, all the, the Gizmodo media [00:33:00] group sites, which were all the Gawker sites, except for Gawker. Um, plus, um, all the, um, the fusion media group sites, which, uh, was, um, uh, splinter, which is now gone, uh, the root, the onion and, uh, AB club.

[00:33:14] Um, and, um, they, they bought, um, that, um, In 20 18, 20, 19, I wanna say. And, um, they, uh, proceeded to then like ruin it the way that most of those things ruined things. And they issued an edict to the Deadspin team that basically said, stick to sports, and you’re not allowed to write about politics. You’re not allowed to write like pop culture, not allowed to write about like anything else, just, you have to write about sports and anybody who’s been following who followed Deadspin knows that like that was never dead spins thing.

[00:33:45] And in fact, it was kind of a meme where Deadspin sold merch that said stick to sports, because that was like a frequent critique from some of the asshole commenters. And that was never their thing. And in fact, a lot of like the most, like the best Deadspin stories were only tangentially related to sports, [00:34:00] if at all.

[00:34:00] So, um, uh, predictably. Did not agree to that. And then they had like a whole week where they did nothing but not post sports content, like specifically they were writing sports stuff, but they were specifically like telling management, you know, to go fuck themselves. And then Barry, who was their acting editor in chief because the editor in chief had left after she’d gotten into a huge fight with management and had been, um, and then there was an internal, the internal investigations group wrote an incredible in-depth story about all the fucked up stuff happening, um, at their company, which then there was an edict that they’re like, oh, we can’t do self reporting on ourselves, which is a whole other thing.

[00:34:38] Anyway, um, Barry wrote another blog about that. Wasn’t about sports. He was called in by the CEO, this, this, this, um, herb named, uh, Jim Spann feller, uh, who then, um, fired him, told him to get the fuck out. And this was like right before Halloween or right on November 1st was maybe it was Halloween and everybody else on the site.

[00:34:59] Quit. [00:35:00] So the entire staff wound up quitting and walked out. It was like major news. So you’re, so later they came back with defector. Most of the people who’d been involved with Deadspin came back and formed their own, um, website called, um, defector, which is basically what Desmond was. Deadspin still exists, but now it’s it’s they don’t even have comments on, oh, they had to turn comments off because the fans were so upset by what they did to Deadspin.

[00:35:25] They literally disabled comments on only Deadspin. Um, and, and that means all the past blocks too, which is a shame, but, um, uh, anyway,

[00:35:35] Guest: defect.

[00:35:36] Brett: I like their tagline, all of our bullshit, none of theirs.

[00:35:39] Christina: Yes. And so defectors an awesome, awesome site, but it’s one of these things you need to, like, they have a paywall, um, some of their stuff will have available for free, but it’s one of those things where it is, it is like, you know, user supported and, and they, you pay a certain amount of money. I think it’s usually like $5 a month or something, but there are some people who are accomplices and that means you give them a thousand dollars a year.

[00:35:59] And [00:36:00] I did that the first year, um, because I was like, I want to support what they’re doing. And I did renew and now they’ve done it. I really appreciate about this, about them. They just start sending me merge cause they have like a merch store. And so they just send me like random, like, like pieces of art.

[00:36:14] I just get a few pieces a quarter

[00:36:16] Guest: and they just like mail it to me.

[00:36:18] Brett: A thousand dollars a year.

[00:36:20] Christina: I know, but I know that they’re my friends,

[00:36:22] Brett: Like I could see like one time, like lifetime donation of a thousand dollars for something you really support, put a sign on for, uh, that’s that’s that’s too much. I I’m, I’m a fan of subscriptions these days. I support the subscription model, but that’s

[00:36:38] Christina: no, no, no, you’re not wrong. And I, and look, there are very few sites that I would like to do that for. And, and they are one of them. And I don’t, I can’t say definitively that I will continue to like be, um, an accomplice forever. Like I’m not going to like, make that commitment. Cause that is a lot of money.

[00:36:53] Like I gave, um, the, the, the people who could see when splinter was shut down, they did a similar thing where they, they created discourse and I gave them a thousand dollars. [00:37:00] Um, their first year to, I did not give them a thousand dollars for their second year, but I, I mean, I’ve given you, dude, you’ve gotten more

[00:37:08] Brett: I make a lot of shit.

[00:37:10] Christina: get, well, you’ve got more than a thousand dollars off of me from being on your podcast,

[00:37:14] Guest: cohost.

[00:37:15] Brett: Yeah. Okay.

[00:37:16] Christina: I mean, I’m just like those be real. So, um,

[00:37:20] Brett: Um, speaking of subscriptions though,

[00:37:22] Guest: yeah.

[00:37:23] Brett: Victor, what is Twitter?

[00:37:28] Victor: Uh, Twitter blue is the thing that I have not decided to subscribe to yet. I did subscribe to YouTube premium it, but I have, I don’t know, Christina, you use for Twitter blue,

[00:37:36] Christina: don’t you? Yeah, I mean, I, I, I pay for it. I don’t, I don’t know. Uh, I would not necessarily recommend everybody buy it for me. It was more of a thing.

[00:37:46] I feel like I owe so much of my life and career to Twitter that I was like, yes, I will give you $39 a year.

[00:37:51] Guest: Um,

[00:37:52] Brett: get for $39 a year?

[00:37:54] Christina: so you get a couple of things. One, um, you can upload longer videos, which [00:38:00] for some people is a big deal. So you can upload videos up to 10 minutes long, because I think now they’re like two minutes and 20 seconds or something.

[00:38:06] Um, which is, um, uh, or, or two minutes and 40 seconds. I can’t remember what it is. Um, but, uh, but you can upload, um, uh, longer videos. Um,

[00:38:18] Guest: um,

[00:38:19] Brett: can you get a blue check mark for $39 a year?

[00:38:22] Christina: You do not. You do not. You also get, so you also, they have like, so they also have some other lab features their testing. Do you did either of you ever use Nuzzel?

[00:38:31] Brett: Yeah, I loved,

[00:38:31] Christina: Yeah. Okay. So, so, so nuzzle is basically back in Twitter, blue, um, where you can read from your network. You can see the, um, the most, um,

[00:38:41] Brett: I would

[00:38:41] Christina: top articles. Yeah. Um, I think it’s, it’s not in all the apps right now, but it’s definitely on the website. So they have a top articles things. So you can see the most shared articles and your network in the last 24 hours, which is really nice.

[00:38:53] And then you can see what people tweeted it. You can read the article. They also have, um, they also have ad-free, [00:39:00] um, reading on a number of websites, which was part of their acquisition of scroll. Now it does not get you around the paywall if those sites had a paywall,

[00:39:07] Brett: they acquired scroll. I feel like I’m still paying for scroll. Scroll. Still billing me then.

[00:39:13] Christina: Uh, you need to check on that because you should have been, you should have, you should have, like, they should’ve stopped and, and you should have, um, probably been, they would probably encourage you to migrate to Twitter blue. Um, cause that’s what it basically is now. Um, and then there are a couple of other things too, like you can customize your theme a little bit there, they have this ability, this was like a big thing that a lot of people were excited about where like you can delete tweets, but that’s not really what it is.

[00:39:39] Um, it’s they call it an undo tweet thing, but how it works is it’s just like, you know, the Gmail’s

[00:39:44] Brett: 32nd delay.

[00:39:46] Christina: Exactly. But you can set the, the delay can be 5, 10, 20, 30, or

[00:39:50] Guest: 60 seconds.

[00:39:51] Brett: Just so you know, you can do that for free just by waiting.

[00:39:56] Christina: Yeah. But, but if you see the type of that’s, the big thing

[00:39:59] Guest: is, is that

[00:39:59] Brett: [00:40:00] Yeah. So pretend to send the tweet, take a breath, go back and read the tweet and then send the tweet,

[00:40:06] Guest: I

[00:40:06] Christina: know.

[00:40:06] Brett: yourself.

[00:40:07] Christina: You can I get, I mean, I, I I’ve, I’ve made the mistake cause I haven’t it on five seconds and it it’s gotten annoying enough that I might even like disable it, which is frustrating. Cause you, but there’s a button that says send anyway, which I think they should rename the fuck it button because that’s basically like my approach.

[00:40:22] I’m like, fuck it. But sometimes I’ll like hit the fucking button and I’ll be like, oh shit, there, there was a typo or whatever. Cause you know, even look our brains work to like fill in stuff that’s

[00:40:35] Brett: Oh, yeah, no, I just never catch that stuff within 30 seconds of sending it. Like, I can’t remember the last time I immediately regretted sending a tweet. It usually takes me five to 10 minutes or, or a day when someone else pointed out to me.

[00:40:48] Christina: Yeah, well, for me, and it’s always, it might be like that 31 seconds or right after, like, whatever period of had expired, I’m like, God damn it. I see that I said the wrong thing. Um, and then iOS, auto-correct fucks you [00:41:00] over, um, all the time. Goddamn. I mean, autocorrect is, is just the fucking worst and, and, you know, people will become so reliant.

[00:41:07] Like I hate Grammarly. I’m not, I don’t want to go on a whole rant about that, but I think Grammarly fucking sucks and it’s made us dumber as a society because they will then, because they’re like AI driven, people’s bad fucking grammar then goes into their suggestions and I’m like, no. Um, also they fucking spy on you and like capture everything you’ve ever written.

[00:41:26] Grammarly is

[00:41:27] Brett: like I want, so at work, a lot of our job is to edit other people’s content and we’re getting stuff, especially from non-native English speakers with just obvious not only grammar, but spelling errors. And I wish there was a service, like yeah, use your fucking autocorrect. But I wish there was a service that could do some of the, just real bread and butter editing for us, uh, because we’re spending hours doing stuff that I feel like if that were our job, [00:42:00] if our job were just to be gatekeepers of content, it would be a full-time job, but they also expect more from us.

[00:42:06] I w you want to hear my best auto correct story? From the, my best one from the last month, I can’t remember what I was tweeting about, but I typed it’s a pain in the ass. And I didn’t notice until an hour later that what I had actually sent, said, it’s a passion in the ass,

[00:42:27] Guest: Uh, that’s a good one. That’s a good one.

[00:42:31] Brett: which is a lot, like some of the non-native English, uh, posts that we get.

[00:42:36] Christina: Yes. Yes. Oh my God. No, that’s so difficult. And then like, I feel, well, I don’t know, I’m of two minds, like on the one hand, I obviously am like you were writing in English far better than I could ever write in your language. So proud of you on the other, on the other hand, you know, I’m like, okay, but I have to make some serious edits and corrections to this because this is not readable right now, you know?

[00:42:56] Um, do the people that you work with, are they understanding because I get a mix [00:43:00] in terms

[00:43:00] Guest: of feedback?

[00:43:01] Brett: Uh, uh, of the edits.

[00:43:04] Guest: Yes.

[00:43:04] Brett: Nobody has complained about being edited yet. Um, like some of our, most of our team is, is non native English speakers. So even stuff coming from inside our team always requires a fair bit of editing and the ones that are native English speakers are certainly not writers. So, uh, we do a lot of edits and nobody has come back to say, I can’t believe you made me say that

[00:43:30] Guest: No. That’s

[00:43:31] Christina: good. Yeah, no, I guess maybe. Um, and I, that’s probably mostly my experience. There’ve been some times when I’ve like edit community stuff where people, if I’ve had to rephrase things or whatnot, and I’ve kind of gone with them, they’re like, well, you changed all this stuff and, and almost get offended.

[00:43:45] And I’m like, I’m, I’m just trying to make this more readable. Um,

[00:43:49] Victor: I think a lot of the people, uh, that all of us work with, um, are the first to tell you like, oh, I’m not a writer, you know? So whatever you do to make it more legible to [00:44:00] any human being is fine

[00:44:00] Guest: by me.

[00:44:01] Brett: Tim, Tim always says, my grammar is horrible and I’m not a writer, but his stuff is the best contributions we get. He’s actually a really good writer and he just doesn’t realize it. Um, uh, the biggest, so we do a lot of tech content, uh, which has a lot of like command line tutorials and stuff, which is where, uh, Victor is having a rough act acclamation.

[00:44:29] I shouldn’t, I,

[00:44:31] Victor: Re acclamation. I mean, it’s just been, it’s just been over a decade since I’ve really used the command line. Like with any regularity.

[00:44:38] Brett: it’s Aaron too. Like it comes down to me like they do their best to make sense of like code samples that are like terminal commands, but they don’t have the prompt defined and you can’t tell what’s the command and what’s the output and you try to format it. So it’ll syntax highlight and be readable on screen.

[00:44:57] But if you’re not like someone who’s in the [00:45:00] terminal every day, you have no idea where to put that dollar sign to indicate the command prompt. For example, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a rough, it’s a rough job for non a non terminal people. I think.

[00:45:14] Guest: I mean,

[00:45:14] Christina: I think even for terminal people, I think that it’s the writing aspect. Right. Cause that’s another, I mean, you just mentioned that, you know, some people aren’t writers. Um, so, but which obviously isn’t the case with Victor and Aaron, but you know, for other people who might even have the experience that they don’t have, like that writer sense, like writing a tutorial, writing a guide is, is difficult.

[00:45:33] Like there’s a lot that goes into it. Um, uh, and, and people don’t think about that. Cause I don’t, I don’t work specifically on documentation, but I obviously help with them at certain things. And, um, I was actually thinking of, of, um, you the other day, uh, Trying to teach someone mark down. And, um, I, and this is a person who, I don’t know if they would classify themselves as ADHD.

[00:45:57] They clearly kind of are. Cause they go in like off [00:46:00] on a million tangents and it’s impossible to keep them focused on stuff. And, and for this particular thing, I really, it was, it was kind of a struggle. I was just kinda like, okay, I don’t even know, like, what’s the point of me even trying to, trying to do this because they would open up the, the markdown file.

[00:46:16] It would render itself as, as you know, um, um, RTF. And they would think that that was the markdown. Like, no, no, no, no, no. Like you need to actually open this in

[00:46:25] Brett: Oh, so it was like, it was, you were trying to get way back to basics.

[00:46:30] Guest: totally,

[00:46:31] Christina: totally.

[00:46:31] Brett: is plain text?

[00:46:32] Christina: Exactly and mean, and this is a situation where I’m like where the, the system that they’re actually giving something to is in markdown. So I was like, if you, if we can get these concepts across, this will actually make it easier for this stuff to get updated. But,

[00:46:47] Brett: I had this fun experience of, of screensharing with Victor while we were reviewing some, uh, some mark down advanced concepts, and he was using a vs [00:47:00] code with a markdown plugin, which like, I love like sublime and vs code markdown. Plugins are amazing. If, you know, if you know what to expect, if you, if you don’t understand how like, uh, character doubling and backspacing and indentation, all those shortcuts are going to work.

[00:47:21] You end up fighting against it and it takes you twice as long to type anything. It was fun to watch. It was actually very frustrating to watch. I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t sugar coat that it was, it was, it was hard. It was really hard.

[00:47:34] Victor: Sorry to be in the driver’s seat of that too. Let me tell ya.

[00:47:37] Brett: Has it gotten better for you? Have

[00:47:38] Victor: Oh God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, you know, all of this stuff and I think you all know this, and I think a lot of your listeners realize this too, is that these are just like, if you are a great fighter pilot, you’re going to train on whatever fighter pilot or fighter you, you need to fly.

[00:47:55] Right. That’s just a matter of learning buttons and sequences and those kinds, that’s the [00:48:00] lowest level training you can imagine. Um, it’s our companies pay us for our higher level brain functions, um, and making judgment calls. And so this kind of stuff, it’s like training, but it is frustrating when you do it, just like my misconfigured wind sock proxy, um, which, uh,

[00:48:18] Brett: going to say this fighter pilot analogy feels as disconnected as the wind sock. And then you compared the fighter pilot pilot analogy to the wind sock analogy, which I guess is full-circle

[00:48:33] Guest: It’s kind of

[00:48:33] Victor: a callback. It’s a callback. It

[00:48:35] Christina: is that that’s true. It’s a callback.

[00:48:37] Brett: me.

[00:48:38] Sponsor: SimpliSafe

[00:48:38] Christina: you’re talking about the command line. You had fish in there. I want to talk about that, but first I want to talk about simply safe. Uh,

[00:48:44] Brett: simply save.

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[00:49:55] Brett: That was, that was. And to the point, I appreciate your sponsor reads. [00:50:00] Um, yeah.

[00:50:02] At Least We’re Not Talking About Phish

[00:50:02] Christina: let’s talk about, let’s about fish talking about the command line. Let’s talk about fish.

[00:50:05] Brett: Yeah. So I’ve gotten really good at fish over the last couple of years. Um, for anyone who isn’t familiar with fish, you got, you got your bash, you got your Z shell, and then you got your fish shell. You gotta get your sea in your shell and all, but the fish is like the cool kid on the block. It has like all these like fun features that make it

[00:50:25] Guest: It’s like

[00:50:26] Christina: an apple designed to shell. It’s like, it’s really nice. It’s really great. But it

[00:50:31] Brett: But it’s not installed by default on any system that you like SSH into. So if you’ve gotten really good at fish and, and you know what to expect on the command line, you know, all the shortcuts and you know, all the language differences and it’s useless, or like you have, if you want to use it, like on my Synology, if I SSH into my Synology, I have to recall [00:51:00] how to use bash.

[00:51:02] Christina: Why don’t you just install

[00:51:04] Brett: I did. I

[00:51:05] Christina: package

[00:51:05] Brett: I did. That’s the thing though. It’s this extra step for everything and their assistant diocese agent too, that I don’t have

[00:51:12] Guest: You don’t have access to absolutely.

[00:51:14] Brett: And so, like, I’ve kind of, I w I’ve coded myself into a box where I only want to use fish, but it’s just, and now I don’t know Z shell at all. I’ll, um, I’ll be the first to admit I skipped over Z shell and I was already using fish when apple switched their

[00:51:32] Guest: they

[00:51:32] Christina: switched it.

[00:51:33] Brett: to Z show.

[00:51:35] Christina: Yeah. So I kind of, I almost went the fish route and then I stopped myself for exactly the reasons you’re talking about because the little light used, I was like, oh, I really like this. And then I was like, shit, you are going to run into so many problems when you use other machines, which you do a lot.

[00:51:50] And also the fact that, um, like, um, the, the Azure CLI, um, is in bash. Um, and, uh, like in terms of like removing, like [00:52:00] retrieving the cloud instance is in bash. Um, but, uh,

[00:52:04] Brett: Here’s the

[00:52:05] Christina: not any way to install fish on it.

[00:52:07] Brett: I, my, like I used bash for 20 years and I had so many shortcuts and aliases and functions and key bindings and bash that even if bash was available, half of my muscle memory wouldn’t work on a remote system.

[00:52:26] Guest: Well,

[00:52:26] Christina: right. I mean, which is, which is why you

[00:52:28] Guest: have by.

[00:52:28] Brett: Yeah. And I, you know, it’s not like I’m helpless 20 years of bash. You don’t just forget how to use bash.

[00:52:36] It’s it? I just, I missed the good stuff like fishes, so good.

[00:52:41] Christina: Yeah. So the challenge for me, and I mean, I would be into it. Um, but, but as you said, like the cross-platform step would that, that would be the issue because there would be times when, because it’s difficult enough, like we’ve been able to do things in terms of like the, um, uh, Azure cloud shell stuff, where that you can attach your dot files, [00:53:00] which is really nice, um, to be able to have your different bindings, but like that’s bash, that’s not D shell buzzy shell will is backward compatible 99% with, with bash.

[00:53:09] Mostly like there are a few instances, but it mostly is there. That’s where my biggest thing with, with fish is that I have some scripts and granted they’re not written the right way. I realized they should be like better, but I have some old stuff. And even some things that you’ll find online where they don’t, you know, dictate the shell.

[00:53:26] So if I’m trying to invoke that and fish, it’s not going to work.

[00:53:30] Brett: I do. I had to update a lot of hash bangs.

[00:53:33] Christina: Yeah. And so then you’re going to w and then that makes it a problem going forward. Like, if you’re finding stuff, like, I don’t know. I really liked the look at it. It just feels like more of a pain in the ass than I can get into. So I went down

[00:53:45] Brett: like, there’s like a two week there’s a two week. Uh, if you dedicate yourself to it, there’s like two weeks of updating scripts and learning new, uh, like G export commands. Don’t work like basic things that you have to find new ways [00:54:00] to do. Once you get over that two weeks though. It’s it’s, it’s heavenly.

[00:54:04] It’s so nice. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna make this an episode about defending fish, but you know what I did this morning.

[00:54:11] Guest: What did you do?

[00:54:12] Brett: So, you know what FCF is. I think we’ve talked about FCF.

[00:54:16] Guest: Yeah, we

[00:54:17] Brett: Like command line type ahead, fuzzy search menuing system. Uh, the guy who makes FCF, uh, has these key bindings for bash and Z shell that let you w so like I can type get show, and then I want to insert a commit hash, right?

[00:54:37] So I just type command G or control G control H and it pops up FCF with the list of all of my recent commits, showing their hashes. And on the right side, I can scroll down it and I can see the diff for each of those ashes. When I pick one, I hit enter, ended in search that hash in my command line. Um, I had to hack the Z shell scripts [00:55:00] to work with fish this morning, but I got it working and it’s fucking amazing.

[00:55:05] Guest: Hell. Yeah.

[00:55:06] Christina: Um, oh Victor, I have a book on M Z shelf. I’m going to send you, I don’t know if it’ll be helpful to you or not, but I’m going to send you one.

[00:55:13] Brett: I, I wrote a script for doing that generates a shell completion for doing it turns every command and every flag of every sub command, which is over 30 different sub commands. It generates the completion file that gives you tab completion and Z shells. So I learned a lot of Zetia last weekend.

[00:55:35] Guest: Wow.

[00:55:36] Brett: Stupid. I get stupid.

[00:55:38] I get obsessed.

[00:55:41] Victor: Uh, well, I kind of do for a little bit, but this is, this is interesting stuff to me. And then, you know, it’s like an old muscle that I’m rebuilding basically. So I kind of love it.

[00:55:50] Brett: I really, I should buckled down and learned some seashell.

[00:55:54] Christina: Um, yeah, I mean, it’s the thing with Zetia. Like if you get into , [00:56:00] which is like a whole package it’s, it can be, but it can really slow down your terminal. So you’ve gotta be really careful.

[00:56:04] Brett: That is why uninstalled it, because the few times I needed to use the shell, like I was loading it as like a login shell from another shell. And there’d be this like ten second pause. Well, oh my, oh, my updated itself. And then ran all the bits in it, scripts and everything.

[00:56:22] Christina: Yeah, no, cause at this point like, oh my gosh has become like, basically like its own like operating system. And like, like people have turned it into fucking Emacs. I’m not even like, you know, cause it’s got a whole package manager system and theming engine and all this stuff and it’s awesome, but it will slow the fuck down of your terminal, which is not what you want.

[00:56:41] Um, there are some alternatives that? Try to pare things down a little bit more, but you gotta be careful, but I need to get more into it, but it actually was funnily enough, I was like doing some of that this week. Um, I was like getting more into, um, like I was re reminding myself and like relearning and like going deeper into, into Z shell.

[00:56:59] [00:57:00] So it’s funny that you had this thing listed because every time I get really deep into. More command line food because I’m not I’m I’m, I’m in between YouTube, right? Like I’m, I’ve I remember more and know more than, than Victor, but I’m not fret. So, um,

[00:57:16] Brett: So few people are.

[00:57:18] Christina: but I love to put on these rabbit holes of like getting more into this shit.

[00:57:21] And, and then my problem is I just wind up for getting a lot of it. But, um, but I I’ll get really into it for like a period of time, but I always am so tempted by like the fish waters. I’m always so tempted. And then

[00:57:34] Guest: there are,

[00:57:35] Brett: I swear to you it’s worth it. Of course. I would say the same thing about VIM right now, but I’ve have a really hard time selling it. I have a, I have a eight page long cheat sheet for him right now.

[00:57:47] Christina: yourself on that. Like, I would rather use them than Emacs, but only barely, you know? Um, although I told you, you would like work mode. You would, you, you would kill you to get there, but you just, the videos I’ve watched like that [00:58:00] is so completely your shit,

[00:58:01] Guest: but.

[00:58:02] Brett: the, a, B we have one more sponsor. We got to get to, I don’t know how much time you guys have, but I was going to say. Yeah, by way of talking about doing, I will just mention that the latest post on my website on Brett terpstra.com doing 2.0, I wrote that entire post ended all the linking and all the spellchecking and everything in VIM as kind of a personal challenge.

[00:58:27] Um, but it, it, it works and it’s a goddamn long post. I should like, I, I, I should have made a series and I should have like taken each of these sections and really dug into all the things that went into doing 2.0, which I just released like today. Um, but I just don’t know how many people actually use D doing.

[00:58:51] And like, it’s a very personal project and I don’t know how much to inflict on other people.

[00:58:58] Guest: I

[00:58:58] Christina: mean, it has 851

[00:58:59] Guest: [00:59:00] star.

[00:59:01] Brett: 851, it got a new one. I just checked that yesterday and it was 850.

[00:59:07] Christina: Um, I’d already followed it, so it wasn’t me. Um, uh, or I’d already started, so it wasn’t me. So, but I mean, so it’s, it’s got like, and you’ve got like your, your launch bar, like Alfred stuff. Um, like, I don’t know. I mean, you’re like, yeah. I mean, obviously

[00:59:23] Brett: 79 forks, which,

[00:59:25] Guest: was going to

[00:59:26] Brett: so here’s the thing with 2.0, is I refactored the hell out of it doing one used to literally be like one file. It was a huge one huge class. All in one file. Just spaghetti code.

[00:59:42] Christina: and go back a second. Just give people context, explain, doing, give, give you your five second

[00:59:46] Brett: Oh, okay. So doing is my command line tool that lets me track what I’m working on. Uh, so I can just type doing now, uh, getting ready to record over tired. And then when I’m done, I can just say doing finish [01:00:00] and it marks it finished, adds a time to it, and then I can easily see what I’ve been doing, which is great with manic episodes because I go down rabbit holes.

[01:00:10] And as long as I’m typing what I’m doing, I can easily have a breadcrumb back to sanity. So that’s kind of where it came from.

[01:00:18] Guest: this is

[01:00:18] Christina: also, I have to say that I probably really useful for anybody who has to account for like, like we do like weekly, like check-ins or whatnot. So anybody who is having to do either stuff, you know, uh, within your, like your, your scrum on your sprint, or if, if like we are now in our, like, semi-annual like, like review period, or we have.

[01:00:38] Self like list and, and, and assess ourselves, our managers assess us and we have to like, list all our accomplishments at the last, however many months. If I’d had something like this, it would be really helpful because I could just output and be like, oh, this is all the big

[01:00:53] Brett: I can just type doing show at Oracle and it will show me everything that I worked on for [01:01:00] Oracle and I created, uh, import for timing app. So all of my zoom meetings and stuff, that timing records automatically, those get imported into my doing files. So doing show at Oracle shows me literally every minute of my Oracle work.

[01:01:17] Every time I make a commit from like an Oracle directory, it automatically adds a tagged note to my doing file with an Oracle tag. It, yeah, like I’ve got it automated to the hilt, but.

[01:01:29] Guest: Dude. You’re so

[01:01:30] Christina: fricking, like, I love you, your, your automation sh like you just, you blow my mind, right? Like, like the mind not blown all the time, Victor, like you’re so fucking

[01:01:39] Guest: talented, so talented.

[01:01:42] Brett: That’s very sweet, but we do have four sponsors today. That’s crazy. We have a crazy amount of sponsors. Yes, we’re we’re filthy rich. Thank you. Thank you for asking.

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[01:03:57] The death of Jim Brockmire

[01:03:57] Brett: Victor, do you watch Brockmire[01:04:00]

[01:04:00] Victor: Uh, I’m sad to say I don’t, but I looked it up and, um, Hank has areas in it. So I’m already, yeah,

[01:04:06] Christina: I, I don’t either. And I was like, oh, Hey, cause

[01:04:08] Brett: so for, for the first three seasons, it is amazing. It gets better and better. Season three is a triumph. Uh, like, so the whole, the whole thing is that Brockmeyer is a drunken drug addict. Who has like very public meltdowns about like his wife’s infidelity and stuff, and becomes like an internet meme. He’s a sports announcer who it’s crazy.

[01:04:33] Like it’s just insanity. And then season three, he gets sober. Like he goes to rehab and gets sober. And at the beginning of the season, you’re like, wait, what is this show? If Meyer isn’t drunk and they pull off the greatest like rehabilitation story you could imagine. And then season four starts, season four, starts 30 years in the future, a dystopian future.

[01:04:58] And, and [01:05:00] Brockmeyer suddenly has a child. Who’s now a 20 something and it goes off the rails and I can not get into it. And I’m going to finish it because I have this undying, love that in gendered by three amazing seasons. I will finish this four season, but it is a slog. I am. I’m very sad.

[01:05:20] Victor: That’s bizarre.

[01:05:22] Guest: Yeah. That’s

[01:05:24] Brett: highly recommend getting through season three, though.

[01:05:27] Christina: okay. And then

[01:05:28] Guest: just pretending like,

[01:05:29] Brett: You totally can. Yeah.

[01:05:32] Victor: But Christina, your you’re a TV officio and auto like myself. And I don’t recall an there’s very, very few shows that do that kind of a hard right. Turn like American dad has done episodes where they’ve done this like futuristic thing, but that, that particular trope. Yeah. Yeah. But that it gets usually couched in like a dream or it’s a, you know, side-pocket universe, but like, that is amazing.[01:06:00]

[01:06:00] Just the chutzpah to do

[01:06:01] Guest: that.

[01:06:02] Brett: I so it, it w it came out in 2020 and it like the first release state was prior to the beginning of the pandemic lockdown. So I know they were done recording before the pandemic started. If that weren’t the case, I would have thought they were just trying to avoid like current, uh, world events by jumping into their own version of the future.

[01:06:29] But that’s not the case. They were just, they were four years into Donald Trump when they were recording and they just decided to go dystopian future for no.

[01:06:40] Christina: For no reason. Yeah, no, I mean, I’ve seen shows like, like, uh, like, like one tree hill, which is not a good show, but it was a show that I watched, like, like they like went like five years in the future. Um, so they could avoid some of the college bullshit because like, that’s not as fun or whatever for like what was a high school show.

[01:06:57] And I’ve seen other shows that like do that, but [01:07:00] yeah, you know, um, like, uh, like parks and rec did like a, a soft fast forward. Um,

[01:07:07] Brett: like that totally resolved existing plots and everything in it was like a resolution.

[01:07:13] Guest: No

[01:07:14] Christina: exactly. To just be like, all right, we’re just, we’re going to this civic future thing. And we’re just pretending like this other stuff didn’t happen. Like not even Dallas was that reason. And Dallas is pretty fucking reason. Like, like Dallas had an entire season that they made a dream because they were able to get, um, what’s his face, his, um, uh, uh, Bobby’s contract, um, uh, fixed renewed, Patrick, Deb Duffy came back.

[01:07:38] Yeah, because, so, so I mean, that’s one of the most famous ones where we’re Victoria principal wakes up and she’s like, she comes out of the tower. He’s like, good morning. And she’s like, oh, everything that happened. And all those people, it was all a dream. And those

[01:07:50] Guest: poor actors,

[01:07:51] Brett: do you guys know alcoholics in recovery?

[01:07:54] Guest: no.

[01:07:55] Brett: You, you don’t know, like no one in your life is a

[01:07:58] Guest: Oh, oh,

[01:07:58] Christina: I thought you were talking like, [01:08:00] oh yeah, obviously. Yeah. Sorry. I thought you meant that it was like a name of something.

[01:08:03] Guest: And I was like,

[01:08:04] Brett: you know how over the years they grow and they mature, like when an alcoholic first gets sober. If they’ve been drinking since they were 12, they basically have the emotional maturity of a 12 year old, then they get sober and they start like working. The steps are however they go about their rehabilitation, the recovery.

[01:08:22] 10 years later, they’re actually a pretty well-rounded person. What bugs me about season four is that apparently Brockmeyer has continued to be sober for 30 years and has not really grown out of his, like, uh, controlling, overbearing loud mouth, uh, 12 year old self. I would have expected more emotional development over the course of 30 years.

[01:08:50] Victor: Yeah. That’s a huge opportunity laws too, because you can totally shit. I will say Ted lasso is a great example of that adults acting like mature, [01:09:00] responsible, aware adults. Oh my God. What a

[01:09:03] Christina: concept. Right. And also like showing like the flaws and showing that like,

[01:09:07] Brett: Oh wait.

[01:09:08] Christina: the, like the turn

[01:09:09] Victor: with,

[01:09:11] Brett: Okay. I got to clarify in my head, it was 30 years and it’s actually 2030. So it’s only a tenure jump, but still, still.

[01:09:19] Christina: but still that’s a ten-year jump also. I don’t know, like going 10 years, he is ballsy, but right now, given everything that’s happening, like I

[01:09:29] Brett: well, like they’re playing up the global warming, uh, like the country is falling apart. There are entire states that are not disputed zones.

[01:09:37] Guest: Oh, I

[01:09:38] Christina: mean, right, right. Which is hilarious. I guess, if you’re going to play it like for a, for a comedy and like being like ridiculous, but I’m just saying like, like five years, you can kind of see because it’s not going to be more than likely that much is going to have changed. And, um, and, and you can kind of pretend things 10 years you get that, that impulse, I think, to make like these bigger [01:10:00] changes.

[01:10:01] Guest: I don’t

[01:10:01] Brett: They have a, they have a personal assistant called Lamone that can hook you up. Like it runs it’s everything from a, it cooks you breakfast. It will find you a life partner. It will order you a blimp. Like it just, and it, it learns everything and the AI is crazy and they don’t get into like, what that means for privacy at all.

[01:10:24] They just, they imagine

[01:10:26] Christina: they, they imagine that, that of course, like it’s going to be good. I mean, look, Janet on the good place was amazing. And I would, I would love to have my, my Rosie, the robot from the Jetsons, but it would be Amazon. Well, actually it’d be Metta, which I refuse to call it Facebook made-up, but whatever, it may be Amazon.

[01:10:46] Well, I was doing that as a joke. Um,

[01:10:48] Brett: It was ironic.

[01:10:50] Christina: I mean, it was, um, but it would be like, you know, it would be Amazon who would be the ones who would like bring this thing

[01:10:56] Brett: Oh yeah.

[01:10:56] Christina: and in like, no, [01:11:00] she, I mean that breakfast better be damn good. Right? Like, like you better be able to manage my life incredibly well, if I’m going to give up all sense of, you know what I mean?

[01:11:11] Guest: I don’t know.

[01:11:12] Brett: So the other show that I can’t believe, no one told me about before is doing patrol. Have you seen doom patrol?

[01:11:20] Guest: No. Yes.

[01:11:22] Brett: did you like our Victor?

[01:11:24] Victor: I did I did I have not, I’ve actually not finished. Uh, I don’t, I’m not caught up.

[01:11:29] Brett: I’m only on episode six, but

[01:11:33] Guest: okay. I definitely want to check this out.

[01:11:34] Brett: so into it. I binged the first five hour long episodes in one weekend because it just, I got hooked on it. I can’t believe I never heard about it before.

[01:11:45] Christina: Oh, you know why you didn’t hear about it before? Because it was on the DC universe streaming service. No one subscribed

[01:11:50] Guest: to or

[01:11:51] Brett: are some very self-aware jokes in the title credits that are like, who is this for? the voiceovers, like, yeah. It’s for the, for the [01:12:00] nerds on the DC streaming service and a few people who didn’t know what they were getting into

[01:12:05] Christina: Right. So, so it then came out on HBO max, um, in 2020. Um, and I, 2020 is a whole blur to me. So, um, I did not. Watch it, but I will cause I like the people who were in it. I like, um, Diana Guerrero,

[01:12:25] Brett: Brendan Fraser who still alive

[01:12:28] Guest: Yeah. Well, yeah.

[01:12:29] Brett: and Matt bomber.

[01:12:31] Christina: yeah,

[01:12:31] Guest: Matt bomber

[01:12:31] Brett: Who spends the entire time wrapped up like a mummy. And you do, it’s amazing. Both Brandon Fraser and Matt Bomer bomber who have like zero, almost zero, like actual FaceTime, but they are in costume the whole time.

[01:12:46] Christina: That’s really interesting. And I’m glad Brendan Frazier is working because what happened to him was not right. And,

[01:12:52] Brett: to him?

[01:12:53] Christina: um, he was groped by a dude, um, by like a guy who was like very high up at the Hollywood foreign press [01:13:00] association, uh, which is like the people who do the golden Globes and he complained and, um, he was blacklisted essentially.

[01:13:06] Brett: Wow. I didn’t

[01:13:07] Christina: And then later, like sued for like, um, like, uh, you know, sexual harassment and other things. I, I don’t know if he’s sued, but he later like, went public with it, but like they bad mouth them. Like they literally, like, he’d been one of the most bankable action stars and they, they killed his career because he spoke out because someone like assaulted

[01:13:26] Guest: him.

[01:13:28] Brett: Huh? Hey.

[01:13:31] Guest: Yeah,

[01:13:31] Brett: Well, he, he got, he got heavy and now he’s working

[01:13:34] Christina: did. Yeah, he did. He got heavy, like his lost hair. Um, but uh, you have to think like that he probably wouldn’t have like, probably would have been in a better situation if that’s the patent happened. I’ll blink to a GQ story from three years ago

[01:13:50] Guest: in the show notes.

[01:13:51] Brett: Um, Mr. Nobody, what’s the, he was the pilot of the Firefly shipping Firefly. Um,

[01:13:58] Victor: Uh, Allen [01:14:00] today.

[01:14:00] Brett: yeah. Yeah. He plays the, the like overarching bad guy, at least in season one. And he’s awesome. I love that guy. He, he plays such a good, crazy guy dollhouse.

[01:14:11] Guest: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

[01:14:13] Brett: Yeah. Alan towed it to Dick to Dick.

[01:14:18] Christina: yeah. But I liked the girl. I liked the girl Diana Giro, who, uh, she was on, um, um, uh, orange is the new black, um, her life story. Uh,

[01:14:27] Guest: Jane.

[01:14:29] Brett: Oh. Oh, was she?

[01:14:31] Christina: Yeah, she was, uh, she was, um, uh, one of the, uh, she was like one of the hot, like Hispanic girls. Um, and, um, she was like recurring on that.

[01:14:39] Brett: yeah, no, I totally remember. She was a main character on orange. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:14:44] Christina: And, um, and her life story was actually the kind of like beat that representative a little bit. Um, she was born in the United States, but her parents and her brother were not. And she came home one day and her family had been basically taken [01:15:00] by ice and were deported when she was like 14.

[01:15:04] Guest: Which is fucking,

[01:15:05] Brett: way to wake up.

[01:15:06] Christina: which is terrible.

[01:15:07] So like hurt her. She wrote a book about her. Her story is really interesting, but she’s a

[01:15:10] Guest: really good actress.

[01:15:12] Brett: Awesome. Are we tired yet?

[01:15:15] Guest: We’re definitely tired.

[01:15:17] Brett: I

[01:15:18] Christina: Well, I’m like waking up like clearly, like my meds have kicked in, so I’m going through,

[01:15:22] Brett: I’m minor wearing off. Apparently.

[01:15:24] Christina: I’m going through like my typical Christina shit, but, um,

[01:15:28] Guest: yeah,

[01:15:29] Brett: Um, even putting our show notes in order, I’m going to be able to knock this episode out, get it live like in the next hour. If all goes well, I do have to edit three different tracks together. This is going to be fun. Why you don’t want to know how the soft sausage is made listeners? I’m sorry.

[01:15:48] Christina: it was going to say, I don’t think the listeners give a shit, actually. They just want to be like, thank you for this randomized episode, but honestly, Victor, thank you for I’m sorry we talked over

[01:15:56] Guest: you. No, no.

[01:15:58] Brett: we’ll bring them. We’ll bring them back. [01:16:00] W w we’ll take another shot at giving him time to talk.

[01:16:04] Victor: Uh, I’ll try to rehearse a magic trick for next time.

[01:16:06] Brett: Oh, that would be awesome.

[01:16:08] Christina: That would be

[01:16:08] Guest: awesome. Um,

[01:16:10] Brett: Oh, just like it’s like that, like the pornography for blind people where it just explains what’s happening.

[01:16:17] Guest: no, I was actually thinking about

[01:16:18] Brett: magic.

[01:16:19] Christina: Although there was this guy, I can’t remember his name, but like there was this guy who would do like iPad, like magic

[01:16:24] Victor: tricks. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Paul Gardner has done some, but uh, no, there there’s a, Josh J actually did a whole set for blind folks. Oh, wow. Yep. Yep.

[01:16:34] Brett: right. Well, that’s your challenge for the next time you’re on, we expect audio only magic

[01:16:40] Guest: You

[01:16:40] Christina: got it. That was actually kind of awesome. Okay. That’s a rabbit hole. I’m going to go down. Like, after we get rid of this, that’s like my next Wiki K holes. How do you do magic for blind people? Because that’s fucking fascinating.

[01:16:51] Victor: There you go. It’s pretty cool.

[01:16:53] Brett: export

[01:16:54] Victor: Thank you for having

[01:16:54] Guest: me by the way.

[01:16:55] Christina: Thank you for being on.

[01:16:57] Guest: So good talking to you.[01:17:00]

[01:17:00] Brett: Y so, okay. More sausage here. Um, wha why, when equip exports marked down these days, it, it puts the, if it’s a link hyperlink text, it puts the text and then a space. And then in parentheses that URL instead of a markdown link, how is that a markdown next?

[01:17:19] Guest: That’s not a markdown export.

[01:17:20] Brett: Uh, people, I love Quip. They should sponsor us. Um, anyway.

[01:17:25] Guest: Yeah. Seriously. Salesforce give us some money.

[01:17:27] Brett: I think I actually lost my voice. Um, thanks Victor. Thanks for coming by. Thanks Christina. Thanks for showing up.

[01:17:36] Christina: Thanks for, uh, thanks for having me back.

[01:17:41] Brett: Um, so I don’t know if Victor ever heard the show before, but we have a, we have a standard quote. It’s a colon response. I say, get some sleep, Christina and Christina says, get some sleep, Brett. And then I say, get some sleep, Victor, and you [01:18:00] say, get some sleep, Brett. And then if you want, we can do a three-way where we can do it again with Christina.

[01:18:05] I’m just kidding. Get some sleep guys.

[01:18:07] Guest: Get some sleep, get some sleep. Read.