209: Failure to Excel

Drugs, keyboards, politics, and Microsoft Excel combined in precise proportions and gently shaken to produce an hour of conversation that will leave you saying, “that was an episode of Overtired.”


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Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.


Brett and Christina-1

[00:00:00]Brett: [00:00:00] Oh, I guess you’re doing the intro this week, Christina.

[00:00:03] Christina: [00:00:03] Yeah, I guess so. So I’m Christina Warren. Welcome to over-tired. How are you, Brett?

[00:00:09] Brett: [00:00:09] I’m a, I am finishing off a oat milk cappuccino. I found an oat milk. You can actually froth and foam. And I’m getting really good at making them so, um, pleasant and warm on a rainy day.

[00:00:25]Christina: [00:00:25] Very nice. That’s very nice. Uh, I am in typical, like this is classic overtired form because I have not slept and I am not only about to have a busy day today, but tomorrow I have. A stupid day where I have to basically do most of my regular work today. I’ll have a couple of hours maybe in the afternoon, and then I have to do for an internal event.

[00:00:52] I have to do one of those overnight hosting things.

[00:00:55] Brett: [00:00:55] Do you drink coffee?

[00:00:56]Christina: [00:00:56] Um, yeah, [00:01:00] but

[00:01:00] Brett: [00:01:00] What, what gets you through a day like today?

[00:01:03]Christina: [00:01:03] Dexadrine.

[00:01:05]Brett: [00:01:05] Pharmaceutical speed. Of course.

[00:01:08] Christina: [00:01:08] Yeah. I mean,

[00:01:10] Brett: [00:01:10] Um, so I, uh, you’re not a coffee person at all. Right.

[00:01:14] Christina: [00:01:14] I mean, I drink it. I just am not like, it’s not like a thing that, like, I don’t have one of the, like, I don’t have to have it. You know what I mean? Like I enjoy it if it’s there, I’ll drink it, but I usually not going to go out of my way and make it or anything. No.

[00:01:26] Brett: [00:01:26] Well for our listeners, I want to tell them about crema.co. Um, it’s this service. I don’t remember how he found it. It was probably an Instagram ad, uh, which I’m a sucker for. I hate that. Um, but it’s this, this site that sends you every day. You set the interval, but I have it every two weeks. They send me a new coffee from a playlist that I pick and they have a whole S whole interface for helping you find the coffees that you most [00:02:00] want.

[00:02:00] And they source from a bunch of different, uh, roasters. And I have found since I started using it three new coffees that are better than anything copies that I’ve ever had before. So I feel like it’s worth sharing. I have an affiliate link. That’ll be in the show notes. And the deal with that is anyone who uses it gets $5 off each of their first four orders.

[00:02:24] And I don’t get any money unless you keep going after four orders. So this isn’t about me. This is about me wanting you to find really good coffee and save yourself some money.

[00:02:36] Christina: [00:02:36] It’s also about you because you want them to really enjoy the coffee. So they keep saying, uh, subscribe so that you can, um, rise up the pyramid and this weird multilevel marketing, uh,

[00:02:48] Brett: [00:02:48] I get, I get, I get $20 one time for anyone that keeps a freaky, keeps going.

[00:02:53]Christina: [00:02:53] awesome. I’m just teasing. I know that this isn’t quite a, um,

[00:02:58] Brett: [00:02:58] It’s not at all. It’s just a [00:03:00] goddamn affiliate link, Christina.

[00:03:02] Christina: [00:03:02] I know, I’m just, I’m, I’m making fun of you. And also the way, the way that they have it structured is very MLM. Like, but I know that this isn’t an MLM. I’m just making fun

[00:03:10] Brett: [00:03:10] The

[00:03:10] Christina: [00:03:10] but no, I mean, this sounds great.

[00:03:12] Brett: [00:03:12] ones that drive me nuts are like, there are affiliate links that I feel dirty using, uh, that are very much, they, they feel too much like marketing and I, I can’t think of any off the top of my head cause I just don’t use those. But there are some that really try to get you to pimp out your social media accounts.

[00:03:38] Just to make a few cents it’s anyway, some, if it’s a company I really support and I really like the product and they offer me an affiliate link. I’ll share it, but I’m always open about it being an affiliate link. Can’t be sneaky about those things.

[00:03:53] Christina: [00:03:53] no agreed. And I mean, and honestly the good programs will like kick you out. If you’re not like Amazon will do audits. They actually did an [00:04:00] audit on me recently and I hadn’t even done anything. And it was just one of those random audit things. And they’re like, send me all of your ELLs, wherever you use stuff.

[00:04:07] And I was like, here’s my Twitter account for the one time a year. I with disclosure. Share affiliate links of sales. I find on black Friday.

[00:04:17] Brett: [00:04:17] My Jekyll blog automat automatically detects Amazon affiliate links in my posts and adds their standard disclaimer to the post.

[00:04:25] Christina: [00:04:25] See, see, that’s good stuff.

[00:04:27] Brett: [00:04:27] always do that on Twitter, just because I use the Amazon shortened URL. And I don’t always think about the fact that it’s an affiliate link. So I’ve made that mistake.

[00:04:40] I just send the shortened URL for the sake of sending a shortened URL.

[00:04:44] Christina: [00:04:44] Right. Although, I mean, I think that it’s one of, yeah, Twitter’s a weird one. Cause it’s like, you don’t have a lot of room to disclose, like the didn’t affiliate link is there because you’re limited to 240 characters. So I don’t

[00:04:55] Brett: [00:04:55] Do you remember 120 characters?

[00:04:59] Christina: [00:04:59] you mean [00:05:00] 140?

[00:05:00] Brett: [00:05:00] when we were kids.

[00:05:02] Christina: [00:05:02] I do.

[00:05:03] Brett: [00:05:03] man. Those were the stone age.

[00:05:06] Christina: [00:05:06] I know. I know. And then, then, and it’s two 80.

[00:05:08] It’s not two 40 is two 80. I know. There’s the stone age when we were well, I mean, I remember when I first was on Twitter that you could actually, you know, tweet from SMS, uh, you know, just sending to four Oh four Oh, um, four or four, zero four, zero, I guess it was. And, uh, Which was always fun for me. Cause my area code on my phone number is four Oh four.

[00:05:32] So, um, but yeah, like I would, I would SMS tweet from time to time and

[00:05:38] Brett: [00:05:38] There were so few people on Twitter back then we used to use Twitter. I was running an ad agency at the time and we would use Twitter just to have like out of office messages. And I had a little screen set up on the door. So you could tell where all the employees were at any given time or where they said they were anyway, I wasn’t tracking anybody, but.

[00:05:58] Christina: [00:05:58] No, right. Well, what was so funny is [00:06:00] that for the first like, you know, year or so, there was like just the, the feed of all the users. There was just like, The live feed of just everyone, you know? And, and, and that was how you would discover people and how you would be discovered. I know that that’s how a lot of people found me, um, was just through and I found people that way.

[00:06:20] And, and that’s so weird to think about that. Something was that small, that there was just this, you know, like, you know, just open feed of everybody on the platform. Um, and, uh, now. I don’t know. I mean, it would be, it would, it would move so quickly that I don’t even know what that would look like, but yeah, exactly.

[00:06:43] I’m assuming that’s why they got rid of that at a certain point. They’re like, this just doesn’t make sense anymore, but it’s, it’s fun to remember.

[00:06:49] Brett: [00:06:49] Well, they added the trending section so they could curate, I mean, basically that’s what trending is. It’s the, uh, the curated version [00:07:00] of the entire feed.

[00:07:01]Christina: [00:07:01] Yeah, the problem with trending is, is that, you know, it takes a while for stuff to show up and then the curated stuff can be out of date by the time you see it. So it’s good. Yeah. But it’s also, especially if it’s like really, you know, time oriented, which a lot of them are sometimes by the time you see it on trending.

[00:07:19] If you’re not watching trending all the time, then you’ve like missed something because you’re like, Oh, well this happened six hours ago, you know?

[00:07:25] Brett: [00:07:25] I follow, I follow a Bach detector account and I can’t remember what it’s called right now, but. When stuff trends, it does, uh, uh, audits to see how many of the tweets come from suspicious accounts. That’s always enlightening. When you find out that like half of the half of the accounts that made a topic trend are actually Russian bots.

[00:07:51] It’s very enlightening.

[00:07:52] Christina: [00:07:52] Yeah. I mean, well, and the thing is, is that even beyond like, obviously like the, the Russian interference, I mean, I even know. For a long time, you know, got [00:08:00] Mashable. Mashable was back in the day known as, you know, the premier social media first kind of sites and, and was a publication that really got its start by being really early on a lot of the social platforms and building credibility, both in articles that would write, you know, for PE giving people like tips on how to do stuff, but also just being an early adopter itself.

[00:08:21] Like we were really, really good at that stuff. And. We, you know, um, long time there was like a, uh, you know, like a tweet meme button that then became like the official Twitter button that would show how many shares his story had. And within a few seconds of us sharing a story out on our main account, it would have, you know, 40, 50, maybe a hundred, you know, shares or retweets.

[00:08:45] It’s just like almost instantly. And the reason that happens spend was because there were going way back. There were people who would just set up their, you know, certain like, uh, you know, kind of pro bots. They weren’t

[00:08:58] Brett: [00:08:58] networks. Yeah.

[00:09:00] [00:08:59] Christina: [00:08:59] Exactly to, to just go ahead and automatically reshare and retweet anything that we had.

[00:09:04] And like, that was just, this wasn’t anything that like, I don’t, I don’t think it was anything that Pete like, engineering specifically. I don’t think he obviously told people to stop, but I don’t think it was anything that he like purposefully, like wanted people to do, but it was just something that continued and it got to the point that.

[00:09:20] As the site changed and shifted its direction. A number of times while I was there, that was still something that happened. And I would have to kind of explain to people who didn’t have like the background. I didn’t remember. Cause like I remember when mashville started, I didn’t work there, but I remembered when it started and I might have to kind of explain that I was like, no, there’s this whole network of just nonexistent people who will automatically reshare and retweet stuff.

[00:09:47] And that’s how we can get this volume. And. Certainly it helped us, uh, with certain things, like we would be part of the trending hierarchy, so to speak, you know, versus other things, just [00:10:00] because the number of people who would be, you know, giving our stuff, lift versus me, be someone else, then Buzzfeed kicked our ass on every single level.

[00:10:08] Uh, and, uh, you know, um, which. A game, what game? Game respects game, right? I’m not, I’m not gonna, like, I’m not gonna, I’m not mad at it, but, uh, they, they dominated Facebook in a way that we never did. And the nominated, like the, the way that they would do sponsored kind of content in a way that we never did.

[00:10:27] And they, they just saw it and they also just had more money and, and raise money earlier. And they just kicked her ass, frankly, they were just better, but there was like, there was still like a, a. Old vestige. It’s gone now of like, you know, people who would automatically retweet Mashable stuff, like regardless of what it was.

[00:10:48] And you could always tell because they would, they would use like hashtags for some of the various tags and the posts and stuff. I was like, Oh, I see how this has been set

[00:10:55] Brett: [00:10:55] I got,

[00:10:56] Christina: [00:10:56] be one of those

[00:10:56] Brett: [00:10:56] I got ed mentioned in one of those, you know, like [00:11:00] these sites that write stupid word, press articles, and then promote the hell out of them. On social media. I got at mentioned in one of those, like a couple years ago. And I still get flooded with their bot retweets. It’s annoying, by the way I found this, uh, this bought Sentinel is the Twitter account.

[00:11:19] I follow, uh, it’s at bought Sentinel and, uh, it basically just keeps track of all the bots and, and how they affect trending traffic. So if you’re curious, it’s a fun, fun account to follow

[00:11:34] Christina: [00:11:34] Hell yeah.

[00:11:35]Brett: [00:11:35] speaking of bots. Seems like a health corner. God, I’m good at transitions. Segues are kind of a, I would say I don’t want to hero might be a strong word, but, um, right.

[00:11:48]I’m missing yoga to record this this morning. I skipped yoga and do the thing with indoor classes right now is they’re very [00:12:00] space limited. So when I skip it actually means that someone else can go, there’s like a waiting list to get into these classes. And I go for free because I live with the yoga instructor.

[00:12:13] Um, but she uses me as a foil. I sit in the front row right in front of her, meaning any spit and, and her breathing while she’s teaching class, I absorb, which is fine. Cause we, you know, Uh, isolate together. Um, but when I’m gone, that means that somewhat, if someone wants to take my spot, they have to risk that added risk of being in front of someone who is, you know, breathing heavier than usual and, and deeper.

[00:12:46] And anyway, I, I, it’s a mixed, it’s a mixed bag is what I’m saying.

[00:12:53] Christina: [00:12:53] well, I thank you for your sacrifice and, uh, I think your, your partner for her sacrifice and [00:13:00] also, you know, the person who’s getting to go to yoga today, which great for them, but also, uh, guests. They didn’t know what they were getting in for. They’re like, well, the good news is you get to go to yoga. The bad news is you, uh, you’ll be closer than maybe normal to the instructor.

[00:13:19] Brett: [00:13:19] See the thing is though, um, like L works for, um, uh, home and community options and she works with developmentally challenged and, um, by nature of very vulnerable. Crowd. So her daily, she she’s out working, but she wears a mask and a face shield and they avoid contact between the employees. They don’t know, they can’t take breaks at the same time.

[00:13:49] There’s like all these protocols in place. So as far as yoga teachers go, she’s probably one of the safest you could have breathing on you.

[00:13:58]Christina: [00:13:58] well, that’s good.

[00:14:00] [00:14:00] Brett: [00:14:00] Weirdly, they don’t let us bring blocks. We can bring our own mats, but we can’t bring blocks. This is a studio rule that we are, we are protesting. This should be overturned.

[00:14:10] Like what’s the difference. If you bring a block and you’re the only person who touches it and the block leaves with you, how is that increasing the risk of infection? You tell me, tell me this. How is that? It’s just not fair.

[00:14:24] Christina: [00:14:24] No. I mean, honestly, I would think that a mat would be. More susceptible

[00:14:29] Brett: [00:14:29] Totally. Cause your face is going to be on it the whole time.

[00:14:33] Christina: [00:14:33] Well, your face is going to be on a bit also, like you don’t have any like, like if you’re bringing your own math and you don’t know where it’s been before, you don’t know, you know how often it’s been cleaned or disinfected or whatever, you know what I mean?

[00:14:45] Brett: [00:14:45] I do.

[00:14:46] Christina: [00:14:46] in contact with the mat, I mean, you do, but like the other people in the studio don’t yeah,

[00:14:50] Brett: [00:14:50] It’s. Yeah. I mean, it would be the same as a block though. I mean, well, except you’re not, you’re not generally breathing on a block is to me the difference.

[00:15:00] [00:15:00] Christina: [00:15:00] Well, right. No, but this is my point. Like, I’m not understanding like the difference here, because in either case, like, I don’t know. Yeah. I’m with you. I feel like you should do make it consistent. Yeah. If you’re going to block the blocks, then the block, the mass.

[00:15:13] Brett: [00:15:13] So next health corner topic.

[00:15:16] Christina: [00:15:16] Yes.

[00:15:17] Brett: [00:15:17] I, so I stayed out on my like bipolar swings and I’ve actually been stable for longer than, uh, than my stable periods have lasted over the last few months. So fingers crossed doing well there, but that I’ve realized I, I, when I’m stable is when I realized how ADHD I am. Like, you don’t think about it when you’re manic or super depressed.

[00:15:43] But when you hit that stable point and realize you still can’t get work done, it becomes very apparent that you are a, you are, you are also ADHD. Dual diagnoses are fun.

[00:15:55]Christina: [00:15:55] For sure. For sure. Sure. Yeah. No, that’s a similar thing with me, although I don’t obviously don’t have to [00:16:00] like the mania swings, but there are times where I’m like, Oh yeah, the ADHD is really bad right now. Hmm.

[00:16:07] Brett: [00:16:07] ask, should I ask to try Dexedrine? I’ve never taken Dexedrine.

[00:16:12]Christina: [00:16:12] Um, okay. So if you’ve had Vyvanse, it is Vyvanse, but without whatever the module is that they give Vyvanse so that you can’t sort it. So, but it was, here’s the weird thing I’ve tried Vyvanse, I’ve tried it twice and maybe three times and each time I’ve tried it, I’ve had like a bad reaction. It just has not worked for me.

[00:16:34] It’s just been this weird thing, whereas Dexedrine does. Um, but. I don’t know if there is anything. I mean, I think that’s just a weird thing with my body. Um, and it’s, it’s the sort of thing where it’s been the same reaction each time and I’ve done it over the course of years. And it’s one of those things where I think the second time, like I’d even forgotten what, the reason I hadn’t gone on at the first time.

[00:16:55] And then I was like, okay, Oh, yeah. Now I remember I’m new [00:17:00] vigil is the same way. There’s just like a weird, a thing that it does that Provigil didn’t do. I don’t know. Um, Dexedrine is good and if you can get access to it, it’s great, but it’s not demonstrably different than, uh, Adderall, I don’t think. And it’s, it’s just, you know, Vyvanse that could be theoretically abused.

[00:17:18] I’ve never used

[00:17:19] Brett: [00:17:19] Goal. I’ve just found that, uh, that

[00:17:21] Christina: [00:17:21] Oh, I know.

[00:17:22] Brett: [00:17:22] Vyvanse has always been because, because my paperwork says that I’ve had problems with addiction in the past. It’s easier for me to get drugs that are, uh, abuse resistant. Uh, people are more likely to give them to me, but it’s been 20 years since I was hooked on anything.

[00:17:44] Um, And, and I think they’re, they’re forgiving enough. They let me try, um, conservative for a while.

[00:17:51] Christina: [00:17:51] Yeah, I was going to ask. I was, I I’ve never done consider I think, uh, I think granted, but I’ve never even considered it. I’ve actually, other than my. Four ways with w with [00:18:00] Vyvanse a few times, I’ve just always been on Dexedrine. So, but it’s been for me, it’s just been one of those things. I’m like, well, this works well enough.

[00:18:06] Uh, you know, and, and I have, like, my shrink has told me, I think that we’re going to talk like next time we talk, we might look at some other options, but in general, I’ve, it’s been one of those things where I’ve just kind of been like, well, Don’t rock the boat. You know, like if it works, it works that said there are still times.

[00:18:25] It’s not like it’s perfect. There are still times when I’m like Holy feeling ADHD, even without even taking the medicine. But it obviously is, is significantly better than when I’m not on it. So

[00:18:36] Brett: [00:18:36] Yeah, no, I, I, I can still get, I can still get myself to focus when I have the Vyvanse in a way that I definitely can not without it. So, um, it’s better, better than nothing. Have you tried Nova yet?

[00:18:53] Christina: [00:18:53] I have, I was part of the beta and then I bought it to support, um, uh, panic. Cause I love panic. [00:19:00] Um, I like that. It’s a native editor.

[00:19:04] Brett: [00:19:04] Talk about this. Cause I remember we went off on a, we went off on a V of a visual code tangent.

[00:19:12] Christina: [00:19:12] we did. Yeah. We talked about it a little bit and I, at that point, I don’t know if you would use it

[00:19:17] Brett: [00:19:17] I still haven’t. I’m still curious if it’s worth me trying out.

[00:19:21] Christina: [00:19:21] I mean, I think you should try it.

[00:19:23] It’s pretty, I don’t know my issue with it right now. There are a couple of things. One, the, you know, the extension, um, library is just it’s, it’s

[00:19:33] Brett: [00:19:33] it’s in its infancy.

[00:19:35] Christina: [00:19:35] It’s definitely as an infancy. And the thing is, is that I think that they could do certain things that would potentially like if they would do a thing that would like if they would create like a way to easily convert a vs code extension.

[00:19:51] Into a Nova extension. I’m not saying open vs code extensions. Like that would be ideal, but I don’t think they would want to go to that model. And that would probably help at [00:20:00] least, you know, the process of reporting over some of those things, especially extensions that are, are open sourced and are licensed under the GPL or, or, or, you know, another, um, you know, uh, copyleft license that would allow that sort of thing.

[00:20:13] Um, but you know, I think the issue is, is that it’s just like, You’re so behind and that’s okay. There is a marked two extension that someone broke

[00:20:23] Brett: [00:20:23] Yeah, guy just contacted me last night about that.

[00:20:27]Christina: [00:20:27] Which is cool. And there are some, you know, language things like I have some stuff that’s installed. Um, I have, um, uh, uh, prettier.

[00:20:35] I have, you know, go extension a dot ENB extension. One for Docker files. Uh, one for TypeScript, one for view. Um, you know, a lot of your stuff is there, but some of the other things that you’re going to do just aren’t, I will say one of the things that’s frustrating to me is that the process of getting to like load from your profile is more common Plex than it should be in terms of your [00:21:00] different settings and what not for your terminal stuff.

[00:21:01] Like, I understand why they have that set the way that they do, but it’s, um, I don’t know. It’s, it’s, it’s more complicated than perhaps it should be, um, in terms of getting like your, your, your shell kind of customized. Um, but, um,

[00:21:19] Brett: [00:21:19] I’ll just say, I don’t know, trust pretty text editors. That’s like the one thing I don’t need a protects editor to be as pretty. And also when I first started using textbook, the first time I opened it up, I didn’t know what to do with it because I was used to pretty text editors. And once I got totally into text mate, ever since then, I kind of expect the text mate aesthetic from whatever I’m working in. Which is why sublime texts and I get along so well.

[00:21:50]Christina: [00:21:50] Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and I think that, I mean, that’s one of the interesting things about vs code that was really smart is that they did actually make it easy, at least for themes and for some other stuff, like they actually [00:22:00] had like, um, I S I think it’s a, uh, There might’ve been a note thing, but it was, might’ve been Python.

[00:22:06] I remember what, but there’s like a way a conversion process where you could convert like a text made extension, like a bundle into a vs code, uh, extension. Cause I did that a couple of times with some things early on with my vs code stuff. Yeah. And, and, uh, you know, they accepted, you know, the, the texts make themes, you know, made it, made it easy to convert those over and whatnot and kind of, you know, used a lot of those formats, which I thought was smart because it was like, yeah, go, go with what.

[00:22:30] Exists for the community, you know, because sublime had adopted that as well. So obviously like what the, how code extensions now work is different, but like the process of bringing your old stuff over was pretty good. Um, and, um, a lot of people really liked Adam. Um, I thought Adam was pretty, but it never was really a big fan of it to be honest.

[00:22:53] Whereas, whereas vs code, I do really enjoy. You know, and now that’s just kinda my, my, my default that I use [00:23:00] for everything. And part of that is also because I can do stuff for work. With visual studio code that I wouldn’t be able to do for Nova without a term, this amount of work. And it wouldn’t work the same way.

[00:23:13] It’s the same thing. Even for sublime, you know, stuff that, uh, you know, the Azure plugin and, and the way that some of the remote stuff works and the way that it can just access my various resources and create things awesome. And I wouldn’t be able to do that without a lot more dedicated work.

[00:23:30] Brett: [00:23:30] Code is the first electron style app that I’ve ever, uh, seriously considered.

[00:23:37]Christina: [00:23:37] Yeah, no, I mean, I think that I we’ve talked about this before many, many times over the years, but that team has worked really hard. Like it’s not perfect of course, but I think that they’ve done as much as they can as anything else to make it as native life of an experience as possible. I mean, and, and in, in fairness, you know, um, Sublime isn’t native eater, you [00:24:00] know, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s not a native Mac

[00:24:03] Brett: [00:24:03] It still works with all of my system services and everything though.

[00:24:06] Christina: [00:24:06] Yeah, totally, totally. And I mean, and that’s something that obviously is going to be not something you can, uh, although you can do, you can do, um, services with code, um, yeah.

[00:24:15] Brett: [00:24:15] that, that, that that’s a selling point for me.

[00:24:18] Christina: [00:24:18] Yeah, you can do services there. And they’ve actually recently just updated the settings menu to be even more accessible for stuff.

[00:24:24] What is nice about it? Which you would appreciate is obviously they’ve made it pretty now, but if you want to edit your settings, you can actually just edit a Jason file or you can go through, you know, the, the, the gooey sort of interface, which,

[00:24:39] Brett: [00:24:39] I, I like codes gooey. I like the way that you can edit a Jason file and like you can load up the. A default settings and then just click a little icon and it copies the default setting into your custom files. So there you can, you can edit it then that’s super handy. Um, [00:25:00] anyway, so you’re you, you still haven’t joined the discord.

[00:25:04]Christina: [00:25:04] I’ll do it this week. I promise. I’m

[00:25:07] Brett: [00:25:07] Here’s an, here’s an example of what you’re missing. Um, Harold Dena, Harold, Chris, Harold, posted these, um, fast food, key caps and

[00:25:18] Christina: [00:25:18] I’m looking at this. It’s amazing.

[00:25:19] Brett: [00:25:19] yeah, so there’ll be a link in the show notes for anyone who’s not deigned the discord worthy of their time yet, but it is a key cap set that is a 3d. Food court. Basically the space bar is like a six foot subway sandwich

[00:25:40] Christina: [00:25:40] Yeah,

[00:25:40] Brett: [00:25:40] and there’s like a big Mac and fries and tacos and pizza.

[00:25:47] It is completely unusable.

[00:25:50] Christina: [00:25:50] completely. There’s like an Altoids tin of her for one of the modifier keys. I mean, it is, it is fantastic. There’s one. I don’t even know what it is, but it looks like it’s like an [00:26:00] open styrofoam box of some sort. Yeah, this is completely unusable, but it is

[00:26:04] Brett: [00:26:04] Well, there is a video underneath it, of it. Here’s a typing test of the food keyboard and you can see the person who made it to, um,

[00:26:15] Christina: [00:26:15] she’s awesome. Uh, good for her like this, this person that this is a tiny kid cap maker person who I’m now going to follow on Twitter. Cause this is just, I’m just a big fan of this. Um, Yeah, I love that she had, I love that she had to add this as like a caveat, a couple things. It’s an art project, not a board to type on regularly.

[00:26:36] I mean, you can, but it’s hard. You know, highest I hit was around 50 words per minute, which that’s way faster than I ever would have anticipated on this. And she was like, this took me almost an entire year. You know, suggestions came from tick tock comments. And lastly, you know, she puts in some for other things, but the fact that should have put that caveat there.

[00:26:55] All the, I just can’t I, this girl who take talk, she [00:27:00] must have had so much people like being really excited. And then on Twitter, you know, you know, that it was like the well actually nerds, like, and they’re all men, they’re always men who we’re like mansplaining to her, how this was bad and how this things shouldn’t be a thing.

[00:27:16] And it’s like, Bitch. This is an art project. She knows. Shut up. You can’t build this, you can’t do this shut up. Like you don’t need to tell her this. Like, um, yeah, I got in and the person meant well, but I was, I made some sort of, kind of like joke about something, um, last week and. I was I, yeah, I was making a joke about something and I, I was referring to SQL colloquially the way that one should.

[00:27:48] And they were like, well, actually, you know, SQL is the language. And what you’re referring to is like a RD. Um, you know, uh, um, a BS, like seriously, I’m aware, don’t like, explain [00:28:00] this to me. This is a joke. And like somebody jumping into my DMS to explain like shit to me that I’m like, Oh my God, do you, do you really need to do this?

[00:28:09] Do you really need to.

[00:28:10] Brett: [00:28:10] as a female developer and I’m forgetting the Twitter account now, but at one point she posted the, a joke that most of her tweets are like developer jokes, but she posted this one. It was an image of a very long if then L statement, uh, for determining if a number was even or odd. So it would be like, if number equals two I’ll, if number equals three, I’ll save now.

[00:28:37] And she posted it and clearly a joke, but it was probably a year ago she posted it and just last week, she’s like, I still get people sliding into my DMS to explain like mod module operators and whatnot to me, modulars.

[00:28:54] Christina: [00:28:54] and you’re like, eh, she’s like, right. Like, that was why it was funny. That this, this was why [00:29:00] I did this because it was funny. Um,

[00:29:02] Brett: [00:29:02] you feel like you’re being helpful. You’re also being obtuse.

[00:29:07] Christina: [00:29:07] well, that’s exactly it. It’s like the thing is, is like I know the person, like who, you know, slid into my DMS and, and was, you know, explaining something to me that did not need explaining. I was like, I, I aware that this is. Someone who is trying to be nice and I’m not going to come down to part on this. I know that the intent is good, but at the same time, it was the most eye-rolling thing that said there have been a couple of times where someone, someone has like slid in and they’ve been like, so you use this word incorrectly. I’m actually completely fine with that because if I did use it incorrectly and if, I didn’t know, especially if it’s one of those like weird grammar thing, cause I’m usually really good with the grammar and the vocab. But if I’m. Wrong on it. Like, I want to know, like, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not upset to be corrected if I’m wrong or, and I’m actually right.

[00:29:51] Very happy to have people like teach me new things. What bothers me is when something is clearly a joke and then someone’s like, can’t [00:30:00] grasp the concept of humor. Or it sounds like not to the extent that, that, um, this, this girl did, but I had definitely had, um, you know, senses where people take great links to explain my own jokes to me. And I’m like, I’m yeah, I know it was really clever. Wasn’t it? You’ve spent all this time deconstructing this, but, um, that’s, that’s why I wrote what I wrote anyway. It’s just, yeah.

[00:30:29] Brett: [00:30:29] yeah. Um, Oh, I had a thought and then I lost it. Oh, well, yeah, those are the kinds of things that I don’t even need to say out loud. I could just move on to the next thing. We have a, we have a list for this.

[00:30:42] Christina: [00:30:42] We do have a whole list. Yeah. Casey night things keep, um, a keyboard.

[00:30:48] Brett: [00:30:48] also from the discord,

[00:30:49] Christina: [00:30:49] discord I was going to say, no, this is awesome.

[00:30:52] Brett: [00:30:52] this looks entirely usable and I didn’t it’s this it’s an ergonomic keyboard.

[00:30:57] I’m not sure exactly what the layout [00:31:00] is, but, uh, it, other than being , um, it has these knobs on it and I had never seen these knobs

[00:31:08] Christina: [00:31:08] same that this, this is what I’m, this is what I’m curious

[00:31:11] Brett: [00:31:11] So if you go to the next link on the list, uh, which is kind of an introduction to QM, MK, which is the kind of O S that runs something like the ergo docs keyboard, and you scroll down about halfway, you’ll see a section called rotary and coders, and it’s a knob that you can both twist and push.

[00:31:35] So it can function as like a key press. Or you can use it to do things like navigate your cursor through text or scroll your screen or whatever you need.

[00:31:45] Christina: [00:31:45] Oh, okay. This is awesome. And actually, this is hilarious because okay, this, this, this asshole, this just utter, like idiot wrote a really, really, really bad tweet. Uh, I think it was last week that everybody kind of like railed him for where he was like [00:32:00] real developers, don’t use a mouse. And, and, and if you do, you’re never going to be a senior.

[00:32:07] And it was one of those things where everybody just, just dragged him to eternity. And I was like, uh, you know, real developers don’t use QWERTY. I was like, you know, like, um, um, you know, uh, coders, Devor, Acker, or whatever, or get the fuck out. Like people were just dragging him, but looking at something like this and like, Oh yeah, see, This, this was, this would be what real developers would, would use your rotary and coder, because you could use the wheel to scroll through your menu options so that you could, um, you could, you could use just the keyboard and not the mouse, but still be lead enough to, to actually one day become a senior.

[00:32:44] Brett: [00:32:44] Well, so people, people who are, anti-Muslim almost always VIM people and then people don’t accept pretty much anything other than VIM. Like nothing is valid,

[00:32:57] Christina: [00:32:57] Well, and, and, well, that’s the funny [00:33:00] thing about this guy is he’s a JavaScript developer, so he’s not, it he’s not event. Like he, he brags about like being like top whatever percent on like stack overflow. It’s like, okay. Um, you know, weird flex, but okay. Um, in just, you, you can tell from his other things, like not of them person, like not, not even like, probably couldn’t even tell you the origins.

[00:33:19] Of of, of, you know, VI, right? Like wouldn’t, wouldn’t even know where to start. Like doesn’t even know which is, you know, being elitist and, um, like, you know, just like what’s a gatekeeping for no purpose. And yeah, I like, there are plenty of people who I’m sure, like detests having a mouse of any sort or menus, and that is fine.

[00:33:40] And, but I think that like, most them people that I know anyway, there’s some of them who are really. Outspoken about this is the only true way to operate, but I, most people I know like that are never going to tell other people, if you don’t do things the way I do it, you’re not a real anything,

[00:33:56] Brett: [00:33:56] have a certain amount of shame.

[00:33:58]Christina: [00:33:58] yeah.

[00:33:59] I [00:34:00] mean, now, now, now, now, now Emacs people are different, right? Like Emacs people are, this is where people are

[00:34:05] Brett: [00:34:05] Erica Sadoon, shout out to Erica Sadoon.

[00:34:08] Christina: [00:34:08] Shallow. And she’s awesome. She’s like the one nice Emacs person. I know. Um, because, because most people, like if they use org mode, like they will never shut the fuck up about the fact that you use work mode.

[00:34:19] And I look I’ve, I’ve tried to kind of get into that. I’ve watched so many videos and like, there are interesting things about that to me. And then I just, this is where my ADHD breaks in and I’m just like, you know what? I have better. Things to do. Also, I enjoy a good gooey, also the mouse predates tech senators.

[00:34:39] So shut the fuck up. Um, you know, like, like honestly, like Douglas Englebright like called and like told you to go to hell, but I’m completely fine for people who want to just use the keyboard for everything like that spine. And actually I think this rotary and coder thing is pretty awesome because it could allow you to just have through stuff.

[00:34:58] I’m just looking through this, you know, [00:35:00] scroll through windows selected results.

[00:35:02] Brett: [00:35:02] What’d they call the little red button on a think book that J J button or whatever.

[00:35:07] Christina: [00:35:07] yeah, the, the nipple. Yeah,

[00:35:09] Brett: [00:35:09] Yeah. That’s that would be the, uh, the colloquial term for it. Um, yeah, like that, that always made sense to me, like a little track pointer. Well, and so on my ultimate hacking keyboard for years now, they have promised these thumb modules.

[00:35:24] There are little, um, Pin attachments next to the, the thumb keys on the split keyboard that will eventually be for, uh, things like thumb, track pads and, uh, track wheels and, uh, extra key clusters. And I am looking forward to this cause honestly, once I’m on my keyboard in a text editor, I do generally avoid taking my hands off to go to the mouse.

[00:35:53] So I kind of get where this guy was coming from. I’m not pretentious about it, though. For me, it’s a constant [00:36:00] challenge.

[00:36:00] Christina: [00:36:00] Well, right. And the thing is, is that most people are going to be like that I’m the, I’m the same way. Like once I’m kind of in like my mode, like I would prefer to just stay on the keyboard, which is why keyboard shortcuts exists for almost every program. But to try to kind of imply, like, if you ever use a mouse, you’re not really whatever it’s like, dude, seriously, like go fuck

[00:36:21] Brett: [00:36:21] I’ve always wondered what the difference between a senior and a junior developer really was turns out it’s your mouse.

[00:36:28] Christina: [00:36:28] Yeah, it’s, it’s your mouse and, uh, and, uh, it’s uh, yeah. Um, it is the fact that like, I don’t know if you have to, if you have to like tell people like these are the things we’ll do, or you’ll never be a senior chances are, you’re not a senior yourself just saying like, um, But, yeah, I mean, fuck that guy, but, uh, this, this, uh, divorce keyword, which God, you know, scares me.

[00:36:54] I, but I like the placement of these, um, rotary, um, in

[00:36:59] Brett: [00:36:59] Yeah, [00:37:00] I was trying to figure out if I would like, I would have instinctively put them closer to my thumbs.

[00:37:06] Christina: [00:37:06] same, but I kind of like where they are when I’m kind of thinking about it.

[00:37:10]Brett: [00:37:10] I’ll take, I’ll take that. If you, if you agree with it. I’m just trying to figure out. So it’s a pinky,

[00:37:18] Christina: [00:37:18] I mean,

[00:37:18] Brett: [00:37:18] key really? Right? Like you’re going to

[00:37:20] Christina: [00:37:20] He wrote, well, I mean, honestly, I haven’t typed on divorce back in so many years cause I just, I can’t do it. Um, I mean I could, but here’s the problem again, the ADHD, but also it’s like, all right, the time that it would take for me to have to like retrain

[00:37:36] Brett: [00:37:36] learning curves.

[00:37:37] Christina: [00:37:37] Right. And, and it’s just like, okay, how much are you going to lose from productivity and other stuff? And then it’s just, if you use anybody else’s machine, which in old days, I do like, it’d be a nightmare. I think it was bad enough when I was doing stuff. Um, for, um, uh, uh, Microsoft ignite the tour, we would go to other, we would go to certain countries and we ran into this a couple of times where I would be using a foreign keyboard.

[00:37:59] Right. [00:38:00] But it wouldn’t be set, you know, to the English, you know, default to be using whatever its thing was. And then I’m trying to from like, cause I’m a touch typist, you know, navigate NBS code with this keyboard, you know, I’m on a Mac and all of a sudden, like my, my keys are not in the right places. And, and certain things like, like certain, like, like, like where the, where the Tilda is and where even like certain letters are, would be like slightly off.

[00:38:27] And I’m like, Um, well then, yeah, this is a problem. Like we would figure it out in rehearsals and after we figured it out, because it wasn’t just me, other people had issues with it too. Like we had to like make it a thing where like we had to travel with a U S keyboard because you couldn’t always buy them in, um, Uh, the, those places we can always source them and then that, but that like actually gave me a lot of it for people who are from, you know, certain countries in Europe who come over who the U S and by seven they’re like, why the hell is my keyboard not correct?

[00:38:55] And I’m like, yeah, good, good call. Right. And that’s, and that’s when it’s just a couple of keys. [00:39:00] So to have to take it to the next level of being like, fundamentally different, um, I don’t know. So looking at this, I’m with you, I think that I would want them where my thumbs would be, but. I could also see this being something where maybe for this person’s use cases, maybe it works.

[00:39:18] I would probably they’ll put it like where the arrow keys are on, on this, um, kind of set up, um, like, uh, uh, like the February or the, you know, inter Keizer or whatever, the cases like the inter you know, the, the, uh, exactly where your thumbs would be. That’s where I would do it on the lower

[00:39:35] Brett: [00:39:35] We’ll uh, we’ll ask Casey night Fang to defend the decisions in discord after this episode comes out.

[00:39:41] Christina: [00:39:41] we will. Yeah. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll ask last for their defense. Um, I will say that, that I, I definitely prefer them to be on the bottom road then on the, the guide, they had them at the top. That’s weird to me. Like,

[00:39:54]Brett: [00:39:54] Yeah.

[00:39:54] Christina: [00:39:54] mean, I can see why you would have it there if you were going to have it like as a volume knob or something else.

[00:39:58] But to me, like, [00:40:00] If I’m going to have to take my hands off or do a certain motion where I’d have to use more than my thumb and actually use my fingers to twist. Then at that point I might as well use like a mouse.

[00:40:11] Brett: [00:40:11] you know what I get it like I’m I’m I have my hands on my keyboard right now and I’m imagining like, I Mike there on this keyboard, anyone who has you’ll have to go look at the picture, but there’s a, the thumb cluster is complex enough that adding another key to that would be a non ergonomic. And I’m on my keyboard.

[00:40:38] If I move my pinkies down, I totally have the dexterity there to scroll. That’s it’s actually a perfect placement. I’m sorry I ever done a graded this, this placement.

[00:40:49] Christina: [00:40:49] Yeah. No, honestly, that does make sense. Now that I’m thinking about the same way. Um, cause I don’t have a split keyboard, but I’m thinking about like when I have you. Yeah. Um, [00:41:00] yeah, that’s a good

[00:41:00] Brett: [00:41:00] I hadn’t. I had this humiliating experience once, um, I had traveled for AOL. I had traveled to San Francisco and I was with a new team and they were kind of, we were feeling each other out as far as like, are they any good at this? And they asked me it wasn’t a test. It was just one of those things where I needed to make a change to a module.

[00:41:28] And. They were watching and I felt like they were, they were kind of testing, testing me out. And I was sitting down at a keyboard that wasn’t customized the way mine is customized. Um, I’m using them completely not set up the way that I had mine all tweaked to set up. So I’m hitting, first of all, like I use caps lock as escape.

[00:41:51] So. Everything I do. I’m hitting the wrong key. And then all of my leader shortcuts were wrong. And I was, [00:42:00] I just felt like a buffoon and I kept explaining I’m just not used to these keyboards. And I felt like I was making excuses and ultimately it led to me quitting my job there. No, that’s not why, but.

[00:42:12] Christina: [00:42:12] No, that would be a dumb reason to quit. Cause I think we’ve all run into that. Um, cause actually, cause I’ve run into that too, where I have used somebody else’s machine actually ran into an instance. Once I would have a bunch of customized shortcuts, a bunch of a bunch of. No macros and stuff built in for demos and just things to speed things up.

[00:42:28] And I had a laptop break on me before a session and before a talk. And so I had to use another machine and all of my shortcuts aren’t there, all my macros aren’t there. You know, all of my customizations are gone. Like my dot files. Aren’t aren’t there. Like I don’t have, you know, my PA you know what I mean?

[00:42:47] Like everything was off. And it was one of those things where again, like I’m now doing this live in front of like, 4,000 people. Oh my God, dammit. They are going to think I’m the biggest idiot. And I don’t know how to, how to type or, or use my [00:43:00] tools. And it’s like, no, I know what I’m doing. The problem is everything that I’ve ever had customized is gone.

[00:43:06] And I’m now having to recreate wait this in a way that I, I haven’t, and, and, you know, there are certain demos. If you do them enough times. You get them down Pat, to a point and you have at time to a certain way. And it was after that incident, actually that, uh, what I started doing was recording a customized and because this is how extra I am.

[00:43:26] Okay. We would encourage people to like, just have a, a recorded copy of, of the demo. So if there was an internet connection, so then you could talk through it. My thing though, was that if I did that, people would notice that the time was offered. The date was offered that the other things were wrong. So I would do a separate one for each and every city I was in to be customed to that specific market and area so that it would not be a weird thing because I didn’t want it to

[00:43:53] Brett: [00:43:53] what you want to do is use like a macro recorder. Something that can record your mouse, clicks in your [00:44:00] keystrokes and then just have it run live and pretend to type while you’re doing it.

[00:44:06] Christina: [00:44:06] see, that would be perfect. Yeah, no, that, that would be great.

[00:44:09] Brett: [00:44:09] you imagine getting good at Casey night? Thanks keyboard. And then having to sit down at someone else’s regular QWERTY keyboard.

[00:44:16] Christina: [00:44:16] see that that is actually my idea of hell. It would be too. This is why I could never have Casey knifings keyboard because Casey and I thing I would love to hear from you. We will talk about this in the discord. You don’t need to defend yourself because we’ve both agreed that the way that you

[00:44:31] Brett: [00:44:31] We’ve come around.

[00:44:32] Christina: [00:44:32] not we are, we are in full support of this.

[00:44:34] But what I would love to hear from you is. Are you able to use any other keyboard whatsoever at all? Like, because that would be my biggest fear would be like, I honestly think this is the reason why I haven’t. I mean, I I’ve done like the hacking thing where like I built a keyboard, but like, is the standard Cordy kind of style, like as this is the standard, like Mac, you know, layout, um, cause it’s, it’s problematic enough for me when I switched to [00:45:00] a windows machine and I have.

[00:45:03] There’s a program called auto hot key that I have set up to remap. We’re certain keys are so that I don’t have to, uh, My muscle memory is good enough for control that I usually am like instinctive based on what operating system I’m in. I can like if I’m in Linux or windows, then like I know where control is versus, you know, on, um, uh, you know, uh, command on Mac.

[00:45:25] Like, so I’m usually like my muscle memory is usually contextually good enough that way, but there are other things that are different enough that it’s like, I do have, uh, uh, auto hot key scripts to remap things. So that. They’re consistent. And again, this is one of those things where if I use someone else’s machine I’m like completely lost and that’s for something minor.

[00:45:46] So I I’d be very curious to know, uh, you know, case I think can use anyone else’s like keyboard whatsoever, or if it’s just like, do you, I don’t know. I would probably just, I would probably just travel with it [00:46:00] or, I mean, it’s so beautiful. I don’t know if I’d travel with that exact one, but I would travel with some sort of.

[00:46:05] You know, divorce. Fuck like customized thing.

[00:46:08] Brett: [00:46:08] So dear listeners, if you would like to, uh, to weigh in on this debate and tell us about your crazy keyboard, come join us in discord. In the show notes, I’m going to make a hard pivot and this is going to be awesome because I’m going to hit politics and Taylor Swift at the same time.

[00:46:26] Christina: [00:46:26] I love this so much. Yep.

[00:46:28] Brett: [00:46:28] So, uh, Taylor Swift for her first ever political endorsement has endorsed Joe Biden received personal thank yous from both Camila and Joe Biden.

[00:46:40] And, uh, she baked cookies.

[00:46:43]Christina: [00:46:43] She did and they look great. They look great. And this is her first presidential endorsement. She did actually. No, no, no, no. Cause laugh. Cause it was a big deal. When she came out against, uh, the, the person who was running against, uh, Marsha Blackburn.

[00:46:56] Brett: [00:46:56] Um, yeah. I vaguely recall this.

[00:46:59] Christina: [00:46:59] Oh, [00:47:00] um, seen her documentary yet, so, but you still need to watch. So this was actually a really important and pivotal part of her documentary, where she got in like a fight with her father and like one of her business managers who were basically telling her not to be political and to like, not talk about her things.

[00:47:14] And she’s like, basically in tears talking about all the horrible things that Marsha Blackburn does. And she was like, I can’t not say anything and yeah. And I’ve, I’ve, you know, haven’t said things before and you know, like, I, I can’t not say anything and that didn’t work. Um, uh, Marshall black room was still reelected.

[00:47:31] Although there was something like a record number of people registered to vote after she tweeted something. This was two years ago, but this is the first time she’s, um, Uh, you know, come out like for, uh, for presidential candidates and, uh, yeah, she baked cookies and, and Kamel and Joe both thanked her, whoever runs the Biden, Twitter account, uh, one of his, you know, campaign people is clearly a Swifty because they were, they were saying they were like quoting song lyrics in a very fun way, which, which [00:48:00] I appreciated.

[00:48:01] So

[00:48:02]Brett: [00:48:02] that’s a, that’s a, that’s a fun heartwarming story. I mean, if, if, if you like Biden, it’s a heartwarming story. Otherwise you might be really angry. Taylor Swift now.

[00:48:12]Christina: [00:48:12] Actually, that was the funny thing, is that when, when Trump was like, kind of asked about it, he was like, well, I like her about 20% less now or whatnot. But actually the best part was is that she, like, when she posted this thing on Instagram, she was very, very nervous. Like her, her publicist is like talking her through.

[00:48:25] She’s like, okay, well, here are all the things that can happen. And he was like, you know, Trump could go after you. And she just instantly is like, Fuck that I don’t care and, and, and says, fuck, which you know, now we’ve heard her say on her album, but what we hadn’t like, this was what was great about the documentary.

[00:48:40] It’s like Taylor Swift curses, which is great, but just like the instinctiveness and what she was like, I don’t give a shit, like I was. Was very, um, cause I love her so much. And that was like, see, see, I’ve had to put up with so much over the years, you know, including this podcast where we’re, we’re my, we, we, we are kind of mockingly a [00:49:00] Taylor’s with podcast.

[00:49:00] Um, and uh, and I’m like, see, I feel good about, about the decisions that the people that I choose to worship, um, you know, as if they were demigods, so

[00:49:10] Brett: [00:49:10] Speaking of Trump. Boom, perfect segue.

[00:49:13] Christina: [00:49:13] perfect

[00:49:14] Brett: [00:49:14] Perfect segue. Um, the times reported that Trump had asked at one point to. Have a Superman t-shirt on underneath his dress shirt so that when he came out, he could pretend to be frail and then suddenly rip open his shirt and be Superman. And honestly, honestly, if he had done this, I might have respected him just a little bit more.

[00:49:39] Christina: [00:49:39] Yeah. He wanted to do like a Willy Wonka thing where, where he seemed frail and then just was like, you know, the TETA, um,

[00:49:46] Brett: [00:49:46] Cause it would have been the Superman logo. Would have made it, uh, he would have been poking a certain amount of fun at himself and that humanizes him just a little bit to me. Maybe I [00:50:00] would have seen it as just a brazen self-aggrandizing gesture, but it’s also a pretty funny, I would have

[00:50:10] Christina: [00:50:10] be really, I mean, I would have laughed. Here’s the thing. I’m still not sure having read that. If he actually. Was poking fun at himself, or if he thought that that would be something that he could really pull off, you know, all that said I do have, although I’m okay. I hate to give him any credit for this.

[00:50:28] I do think that he probably has more of a sense of humor about himself than, um, I mean, there are certain things he cannot laugh at himself about like, he’s just absolutely cannot go there, but there are certain things where he can kind of make fun of himself about a little bit. And unfortunately that’s probably why so many people were.

[00:50:46] Initially attracted to him because there is something humanized in about that. Like, uh, it was very upsetting to see him talk, talk to his favorite people in the world, the seniors, and tell them not to be afraid of COVID and it’s like, no, be afraid, but there was the [00:51:00] moment he was like, I don’t know if you know this I’m technically a senior.

[00:51:02] Don’t tell anyone or whatever. And I was like, okay, that’s

[00:51:06] Brett: [00:51:06] Well, and he came out those videos. He shot from the lawn after he got out of the hospital and he starts out with, Hey, it’s me your favorite president? I feel like he knew, I feel like he was speaking to the haters at that point.

[00:51:20]Christina: [00:51:20] completely. And I have to say, see, here’s the thing. If he weren’t such a piece of shit. And if he weren’t so mega maniacal and

[00:51:30] Brett: [00:51:30] Narcissistic. Yeah.

[00:51:33] Christina: [00:51:33] like if he weren’t such a narcissist, those are the things that, honestly, it’s pretty funny. And. W I would never vote for the guy, but you could understand like, why, like, he, he probably like have a lot more support in a certain sense.

[00:51:49] You know what I mean? Like, uh,

[00:51:52] Brett: [00:51:52] well, like Obama had a sense of humor. Obama had a self deprecating sense of humor. He understood, uh, how, [00:52:00] how people saw him across the spectrum. Uh, and he would play to

[00:52:04] Christina: [00:52:04] did too. Bill

[00:52:05] Brett: [00:52:05] Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[00:52:07] Christina: [00:52:07] bill Clinton, bill Cullen made fun of himself with the cheeseburgers and really played up his silliness, frankly, because it’s like the guys from Arkansas, but like he, you know, went to really prestigious universities, graduated at the top of his class smart mother fucker.

[00:52:19] Right. But like would definitely play up the whole hillbilly aspect. Um, Hillary, obviously no sense of humor.

[00:52:26] Brett: [00:52:26] Well, she wasn’t allowed to, like, she would make, she would make jabs. She would say witty things, but they would be taken because she was a woman. They would be taking it as way more vitriolic than they should have been.

[00:52:40] Christina: [00:52:40] agreed. Well, because she’s a woman in Austin. So just because of her own kind of Hilary ness, right. Like I, like, I look, I supported her actually like, like both times, like I, um, I mean, I voted for Obama and I was happy to, but what I initially in that era, like I actually supported, um, Hillary more.

[00:52:55] Um, and not because I didn’t like Obama because like my fear was, I was like, [00:53:00] um, he’s going to get railroaded and she’ll actually like, Go to war with people, uh, and, and, and drive stuff home. But. The, the, the thing is, is that it’s like, she does have moments of humor and, and you can see her wit on Twitter.

[00:53:15] She’s very witty, but she’s not funny and she’s not self-deprecating and, and that’s okay. Like, that’s completely okay. But like, she doesn’t have that part of her, which is completely fine, but like Obama did, uh, you know, uh, Clinton did, um, Biden does to a, to a certain extent. Um, the fear with him is that a piece to self deprecating and that re rails of against the whole like senile

[00:53:39] Brett: [00:53:39] Yeah, for sure.

[00:53:40] Christina: [00:53:40] So like,

[00:53:40] Brett: [00:53:40] Yeah. He, he doesn’t have that leeway. No.

[00:53:44] Christina: [00:53:44] no, he’ll be here. Right. Like he used to, but now he doesn’t. Um, and, and, uh, you know, and so, but yeah, but, but shrimp, I had to kind of, I even kind of thought I was like, this is, this is sort of funny. Um, I mean, you know, it was nightmarish, but also, I dunno, we’re at [00:54:00] this place, there’ve been so many terrible things that have happened this year.

[00:54:03] That there’s almost like at a certain point, like. I just feel like I’m kind of outside my body, watching everything that’s happening. And I just have to kind of take, like, I have to just laugh. McConnelly at everything that’s happening because I’m like, this is really fucked up this, this entire year. Like everything that’s happening globally is just so terrible that there’s a certain amount of humor in it.

[00:54:25] Like there just is because

[00:54:27] Brett: [00:54:27] Yeah, except we’re at a terrifying precipice with a nation on the verge of violence and a stolen election and things are really scary. So.

[00:54:37] Christina: [00:54:37] Yeah. Agreed. Which is

[00:54:39] Brett: [00:54:39] either have to laugh or you have to go out and organize, I guess, fight

[00:54:45] Christina: [00:54:45] I mean, it completely, I mean, and, and like, you know, uh, I, and I’m, and, but yeah, at a certain point, like there are things like, just for my own sanity, it’s like, I have to like, find like the dark, that gallows humor and at all, because it’s like, you know, it’s kind of like [00:55:00] a, you know, um, Doctors have really six senses of humor, certain lawyers do too.

[00:55:05] And it’s just because they see like really terrible things all the time. And you know, like cops for that matter as well, like people who see really terrible traumatic things all the time, civically deal with it by having really, really, um, like six senses of humor. But you get it right. Cause at a certain point, like that’s all you can do.

[00:55:26] Brett: [00:55:26] There’s the cutest little mouse in my office and he’s looking right at me and

[00:55:30] Christina: [00:55:30] Oh,

[00:55:31] Brett: [00:55:31] Oh my God, I can’t. Oh shit. They’re so cute. I hate, I wish I was better at catching them.

[00:55:38] Christina: [00:55:38] Yeah. I mean, like, I, I like that

[00:55:40] Brett: [00:55:40] my cat is sleeping like six feet away.

[00:55:44]Christina: [00:55:44] you’re like, come on, come on, cat. You know, uh, do you, what does your cat like kill the mice or

[00:55:51] Brett: [00:55:51] my cat is 17 years old. Now he rarely deigns to, uh, to chase a mouse anymore. He’ll Meow loudly at them. [00:56:00]

[00:56:00]Christina: [00:56:00] I just didn’t know like, like even historically,

[00:56:03] Brett: [00:56:03] Oh, yeah. He used to be quite the killer. He would bring me mice all the time.

[00:56:07] Christina: [00:56:07] yeah, we had, um, our, our, our Doberman shadow, she would be so proud. She’d be like catch like a squirrel or something, you know, like in, in the backyard and she would be so proud and we were like, Shadow. What are, you don’t, don’t, you know, but like, what are you going to do? Like the dog is like, is like, I’ve done my job and,

[00:56:28] Brett: [00:56:28] My, uh, my pit bull used to, she would go nuts for this is when she was alive, of course. But, uh, she would go nuts for this, a chipmunk that was always in. Yeah. And she would, she would go outside and she would see this chipmunk every time and she would chase it. And I always worried what would happen if she caught it.

[00:56:47] And then one day she cornered it. Threw a play bow, like she wanted to play with the chipmunk. It was adorable.

[00:56:57] Christina: [00:56:57] That see. Okay. See, that’s [00:57:00] awesome. I love that. That’s actually my favorite thing, like is that she spends all this time into the K what a play and the chipmunk is just like looking at like, what the hell. see, this is where, like, if it were a Disney movie or some other thing, they like, they would become friends.

[00:57:14]You know what I mean? Like it would totally be. I love that. I love that.

[00:57:19] Brett: [00:57:19] All right. So there’s one topic left where we’re at an hour, but I feel like I want to hear us a summer summary version of what you have to say about the UK, uh, reporting of Corona virus and their use of Excel.

[00:57:38] Christina: [00:57:38] Yeah. Okay. So first of all, my, my general thesis, and I wish I could spend more time on this, um, is that the only true application is Excel? Um, I realized there were spreadsheets before Excel, although I can’t actually find much precedence for a gooey spreadsheet

[00:57:56] before

[00:57:57] Brett: [00:57:57] my, my, my only one before [00:58:00] Excel was like the word star era dos.

[00:58:04] Christina: [00:58:04] right. Exactly. And we’ll well, okay, so Excel. Okay. First there was MultiPlan for Mac and that was like Microsoft’s first gooey thing for Mac and like 84 or something. And then in 85 Excel for came out and it was a Mac at first, it came to windows like two years later. Yeah. And, um, I don’t know. I mean, I, I, I just about this, but the, you can do anything in Excel.

[00:58:25] You should, there are things you should absolutely not do in Excel, but you can do anything in it. And so I think it was like, you know, the one true app, uh, what with this UK situation happened, basically not only were they using Excel as a database and not even Excel, they were like, had. You know, really big CSV files and rather than using, you know, um, uh, SQL Lite or even just some sort of other like way to tablet really like view the data, you know, they were loading it into an Excel spreadsheet, uh, presumably, so they could print stuff out or whatever, but the version of Excel that they were using, I was [00:59:00] like from 2003, Meaning that there was like a 65,000 something like role limit.

[00:59:06] And the current role limit is it’s a million, but you can, you can use pivot tables and other stuff to actually load, you know, more data and or whatever. But, um, so because of that, like they didn’t have the, the, the proper numbers, real problem. Um, deer NHS, like please upgrade.

[00:59:24] Brett: [00:59:24] All right.

[00:59:25] Christina: [00:59:25] Suzanne, please upgrade your version of Excel.

[00:59:27] Like I, I’m not even saying you need to go to the latest version at all, but like, could we go to 2010? Like, could we be a decade behind, right. Like, cause, cause it’s actually really painful to think about like, you are nearly two decades behind on like one of your most important applications, but also for the love of God, you can do anything.

[00:59:45] Excel, including building, like people have built like full on audio editors. Like, like people have recreated garage band and shit, like with Excel and it works where you can even import audio, like playback stuff, like create instruments. It’s insane. Like [01:00:00] what people can do with it. And also like the amount of, you know, free time that thank God for the internet and YouTube man, because I find people who are way more productive with their, uh, you know, um, ADHD than I am.

[01:00:12] But, um, for the love of God, like

[01:00:15]Brett: [01:00:15] Well, I saw, I saw a tweet that implied that they even had. A more recent version of Excel, but they were using a file format that was outdated.

[01:00:27] Christina: [01:00:27] Maybe that was the case because they were using the XLS format instead of XLS X. And so, so yeah, w which again, it’s like the XLS X file format has been around since 2007. Like it’s at this point, you know, you can still save in the old things for compatibility reasons, but I don’t know, maybe this is a.

[01:00:47] Maybe maybe, maybe it should be deprecated. Like maybe you should have to install like a plugin. If you’re going to actually save the old version to prevent shit like this from happening, but also for the love of God, you, this is what sequalitis for. Like use a damn [01:01:00] database. Like don’t use Excel for this.

[01:01:01] You can do everything with Excel. That doesn’t mean you should. I love Excel more than anything. Um, even though I can’t use it all that well, but I just am so impressed with it, but my God like use a freaking database, like. For fuck sake.

[01:01:17] Brett: [01:01:17] saw a tweet that had an error message and I’m not sure if it was windows 3.1. Or 95, cause it was such a weird looking dialogue to me, but the, the error message on it was could not copy files because no.

[01:01:33]Christina: [01:01:33] I love that. I love it. Actually. Actually, one of my favorite things with this was that people were, um, I love the Microsoft Excel Twitter account. It is whatever intern or young person runs that account. Like, honestly, it’s one of the best Twitter accounts. Cause it’s very funny, but somebody who was like making fun of it, they’re like, Oh, well, you know, if we used.

[01:01:53] Except for this or that, you know, it would change all of, all of the dates or, you know, it would, it would turn every, everything would have, and then it just was trying to, yeah, [01:02:00] we got you in like, show, like it’s completely in on the joke. Like this is why I love the Twitter account because the Twitter account is 100% in on the joke of all the reasons people like, you know, everyone loves Excel, but also everyone hates Excel.

[01:02:10] Uh, and, and the Twitter account has 100% in on it. And Twitter account did not get involved in this particular brouhaha, understandably, but. This happened, like right as Xcel is celebrating his 35th birthday and people were kind of trying to drag it in certain ways. And just the response from the official account.

[01:02:29] I’ve always very impressed when I’m, when I see stuff like that. Cause I have no idea who runs that, but it’s, it’s. We outsource, I think a lot of our kind of social media too, uh, you know, like except, Oh, completely. And, but whoever, whoever runs the Excel account, they don’t even follow me, which is really bothersome because I love it so much.

[01:02:49] Uh, but, but the, the account’s really funny and, and I kind of pretended like, this is the only like good like brand Twitter account, because it’s actually funny and it’s in on the [01:03:00] joke a lot, but

[01:03:01] Brett: [01:03:01] saw, I saw one where it was quote unquote, intelligently auto completing, and it was the months and it was January, February, March, February.

[01:03:11] Christina: [01:03:11] Yes.

[01:03:12]Brett: [01:03:12] Like I don’t use Excel. I don’t know how realistic this is, but it had decided to suffix you “uary” on every month.

[01:03:20] Christina: [01:03:20] Yeah, that’s what I was referring to yet. And they they’d like, responded like that. Somebody said, there’s the gallery. Gosh, you like can be like, Oh yeah, because it’s going to turn everything into a month. And they’re like, yeah, we got you. And like showed like the auto-complete as like, yeah. Um, Also the fact that like, they’ll, they’ll like think, Oh, they’ll make money.

[01:03:36] Yes. And we turned everything into, Oh, you know, all of us into, into currencies or whatever, you know, like, just so some of the, some of the frequent things that go wrong, which I just very much appreciate, uh, cause, um, I dunno, like it’s, it’s one of those, those, those apps that, uh, Yeah. Um, you can do anything with it, but it’s also, it’s really fucking hard.

[01:04:00] [01:03:59] Um, that’s why, when I watch people who are really good at it, it’s like watching people who are really good at Photoshop or illustrator or anything, I’m just like, yeah, I, I, hell yeah.

[01:04:09] Brett: [01:04:09] I’m just a dabbler.

[01:04:12] Christina: [01:04:12] the same. I’m just a dabbler, but, but I, but I respect the skill and that’s all I want to say. I respect the skill, but also NHS, please, please, please.

[01:04:21] Don’t. Don’t use Excel for a CSV file. Also like use newer formats and just like even use access. Use, use Airtable use file maker. You use a database, like, come on it’s I promise you what you’re doing in Excel. The queries, there are not any harder than running a SQL Curry. I promise you. I promise you. And then these things wouldn’t happen

[01:04:45] Brett: [01:04:45] Yeah. Alright, well, shout out to the NHS, keep up the good work. Um, all right, well that was a rapid fire episode. We are, we do well [01:05:00] in the morning. We’re like one of those crazy morning shows like Harry and Andy in the morning, kind of things with funnier names. That was a, that was a bad example.

[01:05:10] Christina: [01:05:10] No. I know, I know what you’re saying, actually, you know what? You’re not, you’re not wrong. I feel like going forward. We should, regardless of what day we do this, we should just try to do these in the morning because I have a feeling this is just a better time for us, for whatever

[01:05:24] Brett: [01:05:24] We’ll have to try to hit Tuesday, Thursday or the weekend. So I don’t have to miss any more yoga for you.

[01:05:30] Christina: [01:05:30] Oh, that’s completely fine. That’s completely fine. So yeah, we’ll work on that. Uh, but yeah, I feel like this morning schedule works also. It’s good for me because then I’m like awake and I’ve, my voice has worked before I have to go into my next things. So.

[01:05:44] Brett: [01:05:44] not having sleep slept. Do you, you, you do seem surprisingly awake.

[01:05:48]Christina: [01:05:48] Well, this is what happens. This is, this is the curse of the insomnia. I’ll be fine for a while. And then I’m going to drag ass for a bit, but, um,

[01:05:57] Brett: [01:05:57] If you lived here, you would have gotten two espressos [01:06:00] by now already.

[01:06:01]Christina: [01:06:01] fair enough. Fair

[01:06:03] Brett: [01:06:03] My, my girlfriend had stopped drinking coffee while she was going through Lyme treatment. And then once she started drinking coffee again, now she might drink more than I do.

[01:06:16]Christina: [01:06:16] We’ll

[01:06:17] Brett: [01:06:17] She hasn’t learned how to use my espresso maker very well yet.

[01:06:21] So I ended up making a lot of coffee in the mornings.

[01:06:24] Christina: [01:06:24] Fair enough. Yes. See, this is always my whole thing with coffee is that, and we’re going to have to go because I have another thing, um, in like 10 minutes, but, um, I think this is the reason why I’m not like a regular coffee drinker, unless it’s just available for me. Is that. The steps that one has to go through to grind and prepare and do the whole thing is a lot.

[01:06:46] And I know you do. And, but, but for me, this is one of those things where I just like, I don’t get into that part of it because then it’s like a whole mess to clean up and a whole thing. So like, One day [01:07:00] when I am independently wealthy and I can have my own Starbucks or, you know, whatever cafe, you know, um, like local, you know, uh, artismal thing in my house, then that will be one thing.

[01:07:14] But, uh, Until then, you know, like, cause like, and I’ve like done like the pods and whatnot. I’ve done the Nespresso things and I’ve had like the, what is the curric and whatnot. That’s fine. But it’s also kind of like, I know that that’s kind of like shit coffee. So, so I’m kind of like I’m of this mind. I’m like, if I’m not going to do it right.

[01:07:32] Just because I have so many friends who are like hardcore coffee snobs, I’m like, well, if I’m not going to do it right then should I bother doing it at all?

[01:07:39] Brett: [01:07:39] Fair enough, get some sleep, Christina.

[01:07:42] Christina: [01:07:42] Thank you. Get some sleep, Brett.

[01:07:44]Brett: [01:07:44] All right.