202: Fight For Your (TV) Music Rights

Christina dives deep on Dawson’s Creek and Brett has political debates with family. These two topics are not related. At all. But they make it work in a delicious, hand-crafted episode. Because teamwork.

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Brett and Christina

[00:00:00] 02Brett: [00:00:00] welcome to episode 202 of Overtired with Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra how’s it going, Christina?

[00:00:07] 01Christina: [00:00:07] going pretty good. How are you, Brett?

[00:00:09] 02Brett: [00:00:09] I’m I’m good. I’m figuring out this, uh, uh, episode numbering thing. I think it’s kind of standard practice to like season episode, right?

[00:00:18] 01Christina: [00:00:18] yeah, I think so. I think so, but it is weird cause we’re like, Almost officially, we’re not rebooting the show, but we’re rebooting the show. Like it’s still the same show. We’re just going to be consistent again. And so, because really, if we’re being like going by like TV seasons in like American TV, this would be like seasons six or something,

[00:00:39]02Brett: [00:00:39] right.

[00:00:40] 01Christina: [00:00:40] but

[00:00:41] 02Brett: [00:00:41] If it was Netflix TV, we’d be on like season 20.

[00:00:44] 01Christina: [00:00:44] Exactly. But you know what I do kind of feel like we’re like British TV. Cause we’re, we’re kind of like a like Sherlock or whatever. Like we come out, you know, like once a year or once every three years.

[00:00:55]02Brett: [00:00:55] Yeah. A BBC special,

[00:00:58] 01Christina: [00:00:58] Yeah. That’s exactly it. That’s exactly [00:01:00] it

[00:01:00] 02Brett: [00:01:00] BBC mini series.

[00:01:01] 01Christina: [00:01:01] that’s exactly it. Except now. Like I think that we’re going to be consistent again. So that’s really exciting.

[00:01:06] 02Brett: [00:01:06] Yes, this is two weeks in a row.

[00:01:08] 01Christina: [00:01:08] I know,

[00:01:09] 02Brett: [00:01:09] When was the last time we did two weeks in a row. It’s been years. Yeah. This is great news. Um, and I’m sure that the people have been anxiously waiting to hear what I thought of folklore after a second listen.

[00:01:24] 01Christina: [00:01:24] Yes.

[00:01:25] 02Brett: [00:01:25] I feel like that should be the central crux of this episode.

[00:01:28] We’re probably not going to spend as much time as a Taylor podcast should on it, but that said, I went back in with your kind of doctoral thesis in mind. Um, and I gave it a, another more serious listen and I did come to appreciate it. Uh, she does like the, I didn’t pay enough attention or as much attention as I should have to the lyrics on the first listen.

[00:01:55] Cause I was so bored with the music. Like it’s not [00:02:00] my tempo.

[00:02:01] 01Christina: [00:02:01] right.

[00:02:02] 02Brett: [00:02:02] But the, the kind of the biting lines and the, the, um, axed is still there. And, and I can appreciate that.

[00:02:13] 01Christina: [00:02:13] Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, Taylor says fucking out, like it’s kind of amazing and like, it, it, uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. This, this for our Taylor Swift podcast makes me really relieved and. Yeah, I will. I will agree with you if you were somebody who was not into, you know, the, the more kind of low key kind of vibe, if you’d like the bangers, this is not that album as I, I’m not gonna repeat my doctoral thesis as you, as you framed it.

[00:02:41] But I am glad that, that you were still able to find like the core tailors stuff that, that you could appreciate. I will be interested to see if at some point, if people try to do remixes or even if she does some point, because I really do feel like some of these songs could [00:03:00] be turned into like her traditional kind of like pop bangers.

[00:03:04] If it just had a different instrumentation, different production.

[00:03:09] 02Brett: [00:03:09] What she needs is to have cave play. Do a cover of like exile. Did you, did you, I didn’t send you, I promise to send you a list of K Flay tracks too. Like, uh, an intro to K Flay and I didn’t, did you get a chance to find any on your own.

[00:03:29] 01Christina: [00:03:29] I did. I didn’t spend like a lot of time listening to kaflooey, but I’d previously that I think I’d mostly just kind of heard, like I, you know, the song that was on like the, the birds of prey soundtrack. And, uh, but I did listen to some stuff and I like it. I mean, I’m not saying it’s like, it’s not like maybe like my favorite, favorite, but she’s good.

[00:03:49] 02Brett: [00:03:49] She is, um, I would recommend blood in the cut as like the intro track. It’s a newer track of hers and it is, [00:04:00] um, it’s got lines like Mick, uh, it’s doll. Something do it soon. It’s too quiet in this room. I need noise. And it speaks to me in a way that more mature grownup lyrics never do. She has a PhD in and I think psychology, uh, she she’s yeah, very smart person, but she does a wonderful job of, um, writing lyrics that speak to the, uh, deeper anxieties and emotions.

[00:04:34]In a, in a XD sort of way in the way that I appreciate Taylor, Swift’s less mature axed.

[00:04:41] 01Christina: [00:04:41] No. I mean, Taylor Swift is petty as fuck, which I think is both of our favorite parts about her. So yeah, I mean, I think that you can be very smart, but you could also have those like less mature things. Also. I don’t know. I’ve had, I, I. There are all these theories that I’ve read, uh, from like a [00:05:00] psychologists and other people.

[00:05:00] And it just sort of makes sense in some ways that, you know, USIC, that you love when you’re a teenager can remain kind of the, the music that you love your whole life. Right? Because it reminds you of that time in your life. It’s kind of it’s nostalgia, but I think it’s also kind of forms, you know, sort of the things that like your brain goes to, to feel a certain way.

[00:05:19] So it’s more than just installer. I think it like does something to, you know, like. Your your endorphins or, or to, you know, your, your, your synopsis or whatever. And I think there’s truth in that. And I think that’s why even when I discover newer types of music and other stuff, if it reminds me, if it makes me feel like, you know, when I was 16, I I’m going to love it.

[00:05:44] You know? And I, and. In my mind, I still am 16. So, you know, in my mind, I’m, I’m never turning 30. So, uh, that’s, that’s like fine. But I think that for a lot of people like it, because I see this all the time when I go to concerts. Cause now you know that [00:06:00] I’m also becoming an old, you know, everybody around you, you know, at the concerts, you’re like, Holy.

[00:06:06] Shit. We are also old now. And sometimes I’m like significantly younger than the other people there. And you’re like, Oh yeah. Okay. They are here because they loved this when, when they were this age, you know, and they still love that band and they still want that moment. And. I don’t know for me, I try to, I guess, hold onto my youth by trying to continue to discuss our newer types of music and other like newer artists just to like, be like, stay with it.

[00:06:33] Even if it’s, even if it’s core stuff, still just reminded me of being younger.

[00:06:38] 02Brett: [00:06:38] I think that’s almost just a personality type. I think some people are very quick to, I think even by their mid twenties, they’ve already decided what good music was and they’re not interested in new music. I think, I think those are the people that are like new music sucks, everything sounds the same these days and they’re not [00:07:00] open to it.

[00:07:00] And I think some people well into their old age. Are willing. And maybe I think everyone, at some point hits a point where they’re just like, I don’t have the emotional capacity to bother finding new music anymore, but I definitely have not at that point.

[00:07:16] 01Christina: [00:07:16] No, no. I mean, I think that it, yeah, I think that it is actually, it’s weird. I think it’s harder. And like the Spotify era and with Apple music and everything, cause you have the whole, it’s like the whole fallacy of choice thing, right. Or they’re not a policy choice, the paradox of choice thing. Yeah. The paradox of choice thing.

[00:07:30] It’s like you have access to everything it’s overwhelming. And so rather than trying new things, you just go with what, you know, and in to some degree, I think that’s why, so the algorithm. Playlists are bad because on the one hand, like they’re great. Like I love the, my favorites playlist on Apple music every week.

[00:07:50] It’s just, it’s fantastic. It’s always just

[00:07:53] 02Brett: [00:07:53] Cause it’s your favorite?

[00:07:54] 01Christina: [00:07:54] Exactly, but it’s, but it’s like an eclectic, it’s a good, different mix of different songs of different songs each week. [00:08:00] But I’m not discovering new things. Right. And in Spotify, does I have some stuff that it’s recommended to me that I’ve discovered like some bands that I just really love and, and that’s been like a really good, you know, experience or whatever, but, um, I do kind of wish that they would apply those algorithm things to just being like, Hey, here’s brand new shit.

[00:08:21] Right? Like. Based on what you’ve listened to when other stuff, and that would, that would at least make the whole paradox of choice thing. Maybe a little bit easier. Cause otherwise, you know, you just have to go based on whatever, some of our, on some of the top playlist and the curated playlist and that’s fine.

[00:08:37] Right? Like, I mean, that’s basically modern radio and I’m cool with that. It’s just, um, it, depending on what you are into and what moods you have, like those. Those, you know, like rap caviar or whatever, it might not be like your jam.

[00:08:53] 02Brett: [00:08:53] here’s why, here’s why I choose Spotify. Um, it, every day it makes me four playlists [00:09:00] and every one of those platelets usually includes one or two, uh, bands or artists that I either had forgotten about or had never heard of. And it’s a great way. Like it’s a lot of my favorite, most played songs mixed in with related songs, uh, within the same genre that I maybe haven’t heard and their release radar, uh, actually.

[00:09:24] Find artists that are similar to ones that I do follow and plays their newest stuff. And I have found all the new music. Yeah. I have discovered in the last few years is either come from Spotify algorithms or by using dang, um, should while watching TV and movies. Uh, and, um, I love a great soundtrack and I’ll, I’ll just turn on auto Shazam where it just like tags, every song it hears.

[00:09:52] Uh, when I wa like umbrella Academy, did you watch

[00:09:55] 01Christina: [00:09:55] yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:57] 02Brett: [00:09:57] to that was just great. I mean, I knew [00:10:00] most of the song, which is probably why I thought it was a great soundtrack, but there were some cool ones in there.

[00:10:05] 01Christina: [00:10:05] Yeah, no, I agree. I, I, um, I liked that, that soundtrack a lot too. And yeah, I mean, I actually, I I’m with you. I do a similar thing with Shizam and when I watched shows it’s weird. Um, You know, in the last, like it’s been, you know, more than 20 years now since like, you know, TV producers have, or since music, producers have used TV as a way to kind of get new music out to people and as, as a breaking ground for that.

[00:10:29] And in some ways I don’t think that some of the stuff I, like, I don’t feel like new artists and stuff is broken the same way that it was. I almost feel like it’s so competitive that it just has become like another like outlet that. You know, um, and our groups kind of go after. And so it loses some of its resonance.

[00:10:46] Whereas I feel like at peak, like, you know, early two thousands TV where you had these amazing music, uh, you know, uh, producers on the show is just like really going deep and finding [00:11:00] stuff. Uh, also I think, you know, I don’t know, it’s just different, but I still, I, with you, I use Shazam and discover stuff that way all the time.

[00:11:08] Um, although it’s interesting because I do find. How repetitive some of the songs have become that. And, and, and

[00:11:17] 02Brett: [00:11:17] In what way?

[00:11:17] 01Christina: [00:11:17] meaning, I will see the same tracks over and over again, across different shows that are even kind of different. I mean, sometimes there’s similar shows, but sometimes they’re, they’re different and it’s just like, even like, A number of years ago, you wouldn’t see that it’d be one of those things.

[00:11:35] It’s like, okay. The phrase has been used on Grey’s anatomy. So that’s not going to be used on another show now it’s, it’s like, it doesn’t matter. Even if the exact same song has become, you know, it was. Kind of broken on one thing. It’s like, okay, another show we’ll we’ll license it. Anyway, which is interesting.

[00:11:54] Um, we’ve talked about this before, but, and this isn’t on our list of stuff to talk about, but I am kind [00:12:00] of, uh, interested in, in your take on this. Cause we both watch a lot of Netflix and we both like, have we talked last week about how we are rewatching shows and the thing that. You know, God, we finally gotten to the point, at least in the DVD era where it felt like this was fixed, but music rights, man, like fucking music rights being different on shows not lasting.

[00:12:26] When you go back to rewatch them is the worst thing in the world. God.

[00:12:32] 02Brett: [00:12:32] What do give me an example. I’m not sure what you’re talking

[00:12:34] 01Christina: [00:12:34] Okay. Alright. Okay. So my, my, my like example of this always is Dawson’s Creek, right? Okay. Yeah. Make fun of me, roast me whatever, but it had some of the best music period, and I did discover some bands that I still love today and just really good shit.

[00:12:48] Like Damien rice is, uh, who I don’t think you’d be into, but he’s one of my favorite artists I heard. Like, I think they played him on Dawson’s Creek years before. It like the album hadn’t even come to the U S [00:13:00] yet. And, and there are other things they changed. So much of the music on the DVD releases because they didn’t want pay for the rights and they didn’t have the contracts written in such a way so that, you know, the, the, the music licenses would extend to the physical media releases.

[00:13:18] So the first season had all the original music, and then in subsequent years they had to cut so much of it. The, I don’t want to wait, like Paula Cole song, like the theme song, like the defining thing of that show. Is not in the DVD releases and it’s also not in the streaming releases and the streaming releases it’s even worse because the first season on DVD at least had all the original music, they replaced it, um, for the streaming stuff, uh, you know, versus what was on the DVD.

[00:13:45] And so I spent, uh, I spent many, many, like, I mean, it was, it was a it was a multiyear process to track that down. But I was, I had to find. Somebody [00:14:00] basically in France, and this was probably six or seven years ago at this point who had amassed collection of every episode of Dawson’s Creek with the original music in like high enough quality that it wasn’t bad.

[00:14:13] So some of it was, you know, um, It was basically usually like, you know, kind of like expedited or, you know, if that had been available, uh, although by the time that show went off the air issue, six, four, really wasn’t a thing. So talking like ABI files, whatever, but usually like internet, you know, downloads or, you know, like high quality captures from, you know, the late nineties, early two thousands.

[00:14:36] Of the show. Um, so these weren’t like, like VHS, uh, you know, transfers. These were usually captured from broadcast and then, and then digitized, um, Like I had to find somebody who had a collection of every episode with the original music and it’s like, you know, 40 or 50 gigabytes and I’ve got it backed up multiple places.

[00:14:57] But yeah, we was a thing. Like I found this guy in France and he [00:15:00] had actually, you’re the one who told him about this thing. Remember that, that, that hard drive that they sold, that you could share it with other people, like it would share some of your bandwidth where it would basically like live online.

[00:15:12] And it was like a hard drive that also was kind of a Dropbox thing. Okay. So he had one of those and he was in

[00:15:21] 02Brett: [00:15:21] was that called?

[00:15:22] 01Christina: [00:15:22] What was that called?

[00:15:23]02Brett: [00:15:23] Well, not the transporter.

[00:15:26] 01Christina: [00:15:26] That’s exactly

[00:15:26] 02Brett: [00:15:26] Was it?

[00:15:27] 01Christina: [00:15:27] Yes, it was the transport. So he had one of those, but he was in France and his internet connection. Wasn’t great. And this is like 50 gigabytes and I’m, you know, in New York. And so that the pings or whatever bad. So I was connected to his Transporter, but it took forever to get that download.

[00:15:43] I think I like ended up pay palling him like a hundred bucks or something, you know, just because I like wanted to help. Yeah. Then I think like we might’ve made a torrent, but yeah, it isn’t widely available. Like it’s one of those things that even. I probably should put it on Usenet or something because I would, I would like more of the public to have [00:16:00] access to, but anyway, it was, it was a, uh, an exhaustive process to find it.

[00:16:04] And also like, um, you know, I, I paid money for this after I’ve already bought the entire series, not just on DVD, but I also bought the blue Ray because it was super cheap or whatever. And, or actually, no, not the Blueray, they rerelease the whole thing that way, but I also have it on, on iTunes or whatever with the shitty, you know, music inserts and, um, Anyway, like it was this, this ridiculous process, but I can’t watch the show with the wrong music and scrubs, which is a show that I’ve started rewatching because I really loved scrubs and it holds up.

[00:16:37] And that’s another one where it has like the best music, the, the show creator, bill Lawrence and his wife, uh, Krista Miller, um, picked a lot of the music, his wife in particular. And she was also, um, uh, an actress on the show. And she’s also on, um, um, Uh, his other show, um, what was the one with, uh, Cougar town?

[00:16:57] Um,

[00:16:58] 02Brett: [00:16:58] I’m watching that

[00:16:59] 01Christina: [00:16:59] Yeah. Yeah, [00:17:00] yeah, yeah. Okay. So, so she’s, she’s like the best friend, um, kind of caustic once. Okay. So she’s great. So she picked a lot of the music, so, so she pitch a lot of the music for scrubs and actually for coop, for Cougar town as well. And like Josh, not Josh, Zach Braff always got a lot of credit for the music.

[00:17:16] And he certainly played a role because he had like similar music sensibilities. And he obviously did like the garden state soundtrack and stuff, but like, it was really like Krista Miller who. Picked a lot of that stuff. And the music is just fantastic and Disney did pay for the rights for DVD. So if you have the DVD release scrubs, um, there are a couple of like missing things.

[00:17:38] Like I think that guided by voices wouldn’t give the right for one song in season one. And there is like maybe one or two other examples. And in that case, like they knew it and they picked really good. Substitutions, like, not as good as hold on hope, but a good substitution and you know, it’s fine. But when [00:18:00] it came time to put it on Netflix or Hulu or whatever, they didn’t pay for it like they did for, I think maybe a certain period of time.

[00:18:07] And then after a certain period of time, they’re like, yeah, we’re not paying for this anymore. So if you watch scrubs on streaming, It loses the original music. Now, if you buy it on iTunes, it has it. But, uh, you know, if you’re watching it on streaming, the music has been changed. And at this point, the way it’s been changed, it hasn’t been done by the producers who, you know, at least when they had to do like the, the couple of minor changes in season one, like when that came out on DVD, like 15 years ago, um, He like shows a replacement that would fit in this case.

[00:18:41] It’s just like people using, you know, whatever sort of generic music they can get. It’s it’s not music. I mean, it has voices in it, but it’s like not bands that you would know or, or anything like that. It’s just like going through, you know, it’s just, it’s just penny pinchers being like, okay, we’re just going to insert these things in the cues.

[00:18:58] And, you know, it takes [00:19:00] you out of it cause you know, the editing, the dubbing on that, isn’t perfect. And so you can sometimes hear the different, you know, outros or whatever in different things. And, um, and I dunno, it just ruins the whole show, like to go back and watch it that way. So it makes me grateful that I have all the DVDs and that, you know, use that and other things for me to get digitized copies of my DVDs faster than it would be for me to manually rip them.

[00:19:22] You

[00:19:23] 02Brett: [00:19:23] Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. But in a case like Dawson’s Creek, how often are you watching Dawson’s Creek? Why can’t this just exist as a, a good memory and not a multiyear process of tracking down in a manner, very akin to people who demand vinyl releases of, of their favorite bands and they won’t accept anything.

[00:19:47] That isn’t the original. They don’t want to hear any remastered tracks. Everything has to be the way it was originally. What, why is that an obsession for you? Tell us more.

[00:19:58] 01Christina: [00:19:58] okay. [00:20:00] Because not that I’m going to rewatch it all the time, of course. But because if I do want to see an episode or if I do want to see something, the minute that the song queue is wrong, because. Dawson’s Creek in particular, uh, all those scrubs too, but like Dawson’s Creek in particular is a show that I watched so many times as a kid, like a teenager, like I would, you know, record every episode and then I watch it and, you know, I know those cues, I know those moments.

[00:20:25] And so the minute. That they don’t have the right musical cue in like a key scene, like, and, and like, uh, or song that like even songs that were on the damn soundtrack, right? Like, I mean, that’s what really got me with the DVD releases. I was like, Sony, you, you paid for this song for the soundtracks that you put out and you.

[00:20:44] Put a replacement on the DVD release. Cause it didn’t sell as well as you wanted or whatever, like the sucks. So for me, it just completely takes me out of the show and I can’t even enjoy if I wanted to rewatch it. Like Dawson’s Creek, I’m obviously gonna watch less than something like scrubs, but scrubs is like a good comedy.

[00:20:59] It’s a good [00:21:00] thing to tune in and see. And even in syndication now, they. Have, you know, changed the music. And so if you just have it on as like background or something, like it sucks. Like I I’m happy that the OC, which has also some of the best music ever and, and the, the, the music supervisor on that is she did Roswell and she did Buffy and she did Grey’s anatomy and she did all the Shonda Rhimes shows and she’s like, I interviewed her when I was in college, she was very kind to me to agree, to talk to me about like her role as a music supervisor and breaking bands and stuff.

[00:21:33] She’s like a master, but like the OC, you know, like broke big indie bands and like was legitimately like, had like actual impact on the, on the top. You know, on billboard and stuff. Um, they at least cause that’s was on Hulu and now it’s on HBO, max. Yeah. They at least did not like lose any of the music. Yeah.

[00:21:53] Warner brothers is paying for it. They had it on, they had it by the time that show was out, DVDs were already a thing. So it was [00:22:00] written into the contracts. But you know, at some point if like the, the people at, at Warner media. Decide, they don’t want to pay, you know, for death cab for cutie anymore or, or whatever, like, you know, or journey, like, you know, you could see that going away and that’s just, I don’t know.

[00:22:16] That’s, it’s shitty. It’s just, I mean, I don’t know, like, did you ever watch w KRP in Cincinnati?

[00:22:23] 02Brett: [00:22:23] No.

[00:22:23] 01Christina: [00:22:23] Okay. So I obviously like it ended, I think before I was born, but you know, it was, it takes place in like a seventies radio station. And so they played a lot of like real, like classic rock music and as a comedy sitcom and in syndication again, because it was a different time in the eighties, nineties, and people didn’t realize how much money they could make off of the licensing shit.

[00:22:46]The original music was there, but when they, it was held up on release for, for home media and for streaming for like, Years and years and years, and years and years. And by the time it finally came out, you know, with the sound like stuff, just [00:23:00] for people who’d remember the show, it was ruined. The wonder years was another one where I think Time-Life did finally do a DVD release of the wonder years.

[00:23:08] Cause you know, they used the Beatles. Like they had like. A big, a much bigger production budget, and then what you would get for like a primetime show today. And they, you know, had rights and use like the biggest, like, you know, essential songs from like the sixties and stuff on that show. And Time-Life got the rights for most of it for their home DVD release, but I don’t even think they were able to get everything.

[00:23:32] And, and certainly when the wonder years has been on various streaming things, you don’t hear the Beatles and. You know, like it, I don’t know, it just takes you out of it. Um, that’s always like more classic shows, but even like, I could imagine, like if I was rewatching. Like the office didn’t really use, uh, popular music and community, I guess didn’t either, but you know, but you’re watching those things and it goes away.

[00:23:53] Like, that’s just, it, it makes me sad, not just for me, if I want to rewatch it. Cause it will take me out of the show, [00:24:00] but it also makes me sad for like anybody who’s discovering it. Cause they don’t, they don’t get the, they don’t get the experience that the producers want it. They don’t get the all Toral intent.

[00:24:09] 02Brett: [00:24:09] And then, and then you get to be like you kids wouldn’t understand. You don’t understand where this came from and what this means. I, we need a name for these rants. You, you go on, we need like a clever, uh, trademark, uh, if anyone’s listening and has a great idea for a catchy name for a Christina deep dive, uh, please, please write in w we’ll make a segment out of it.

[00:24:38]01Christina: [00:24:38] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, I’m, I’m, I’m off my high horse on that, but yeah,

[00:24:44] 02Brett: [00:24:44] Do you keep a clean desk?

[00:24:46]01Christina: [00:24:46] no.

[00:24:47] 02Brett: [00:24:47] Yeah, me either. I just, I just cleaned my desk today and it feels very different, but I can’t say it feels better.

[00:24:55] 01Christina: [00:24:55] yeah. Yeah, no, my desk. Okay. So I’m not going to turn this into a rant but [00:25:00] it is. It is a real problem. It is. No, but no, but this is becoming a legitimate problem. Okay. So I ordered a brand new 5k iMac, and it has arrived. It is vesa. It’s the one that just has the vesa mount. It doesn’t have this. Stand the issue is my vesa.

[00:25:14] Um, a stand that I’m going to have to use an interim has not arrived yet, or actually supposed to come in today. So I will be packing up my, um, old, iMac and then setting up the new one. The issue is the whole reason I got it is because I just ordered a new standing desk so that I hate my current desk.

[00:25:32] I’ve had it for three years. It’s just one of those, like, Ikea ones it’s terrible because I can’t Mount anything to it because of the way that the drawers work. Like it becomes too thick for me to Mount stuff. It’s just, it’s a terrible desk. I’ve hated it the whole time. I’ve had it to be totally honest.

[00:25:47] Um, but my office it’s messy in a way that like, It’s a problem because my perfectionism, and to a smaller extent, I would say [00:26:00] maybe like my OCD, whatever is such a way that like, I become overwhelmed with the, how bad it is that I can’t do anything about it. But now it’s at this place where I’m going to have to spend, I’m going to, I have to like work to get myself into an emotional place where it’s going to take me.

[00:26:16] A couple of days to completely clean out my office. Cause I’m just got boxes and shit everywhere. And you know, like, I’m just going to have to clean it and either get rid of separate or find other things to do, because I need to get this desk out. And I ordered this new standing desk, which is bigger, like significantly bigger.

[00:26:35] And I’ve got, I now have a deadline. Well, I should have today. I ordered a very expensive Herman Miller chair that is not even in my office yet. Cause I can’t get it in my office. And I, um, Order the standing desk and that will ship and should be here, you know, uh, likely in a week, but I paid for somebody to come install it.

[00:26:56] And the reason I’m doing that is because I’m not gonna be able to lift it [00:27:00] myself and grant has, is, um, has a. Some, um, like he has like a herniated disc and, and, uh, he has to take everything easy for like the next, like six to eight weeks. And so I can’t ask him to help me lift, you know, something that’s probably like, it’s like, it’s like a, a, a 72 by 30 desk and it’s.

[00:27:20] You know, probably ways. I don’t know, I’m thinking 150 pounds. Um, and so like, even if I like, even if I could get the weight, I wouldn’t be able to like, just because that’s just too big for me to do. So I ha I paid four, I paid the $200 or whatever for the installation service and how that works is that they’ll track the FedEx thing.

[00:27:38] And then once it arrives and I ensure that nothing’s broken, then the installers will come over and install it. So. My office has to be cleaned by the time that happens. Like it has to not just be clean. It has to be empty. So. No, my desk currently, it’s so terrible. Um, that I wrote like relay FM, asked me to write a desk thing for their, um, member.

[00:28:00] [00:28:00] And I included a photo and the photo I included even show the horror of it. And I just wrote like a very like direct, like, yup. I am a trash person with a messy desk and this is my thing. And it was like, people really liked it. People responded well to it, but it was. Complete like one 80. Cause almost everybody else’s like desk setup, photos are like immaculate and are to me completely.

[00:28:23] Like I don’t actually believe that people work and live that way.

[00:28:26]02Brett: [00:28:26] I do believe that like, when I, when it comes to like minimalist workspaces, I don’t think anyone actually can work that way, but a neat desk. I like, I come from a family. With, like my dad’s an engineer. He’s very, uh, very, uh, tidy engineer. And my mom keeps everything. My mom has the, like a place for everything and everything that’s placed mantra.

[00:28:50] And, um, like I grew up always in trouble because ADHD kids tend to be messy and they don’t do well with cleaning the room. So I was [00:29:00] always in trouble and once I was free to make my own decisions, I decided I like messy. And I’m not a slob. Like I keep my clothes clean. I take regular showers. I just don’t mind clutter.

[00:29:14] And, and I rarely it’s, it’s rare that I can’t find something I’m looking

[00:29:20] 01Christina: [00:29:20] You know where it

[00:29:21] 02Brett: [00:29:21] very, yeah, I’m good at keeping track of stuff, which is not characteristic of ADHD. People week do tend to lose things pretty often, but I’ve developed coping mechanisms over a lifetime of this. I can almost always, I actually used to have an Evernote notebook where I would take pictures of stuff that I frequently lost and then write down where I put it every time using like the iPhone app.

[00:29:45] I would like be like, this is now in the top drawer of the living room, a Curio cabinet or whatever. And, uh, that, that didn’t, I didn’t stick with that for long. Anyway, I, I have no problem, a cluttered desk. I really [00:30:00] don’t. And you’re right. People don’t show this enough. Um, people are very ashamed of their messes.

[00:30:08] And so all you see are these pristine desktops with not even a cup of coffee on them, unless it’s a, an artisan cup of coffee there for effect, but I can, I could do with some more honest, a workspace photos.

[00:30:25] 01Christina: [00:30:25] Yeah. Yeah. I’m going to post in our equip documents. We can put it in our show notes. I’m going to post the photo that I sent into relay. And again, this was the, this was the photo that made it look not as terrible, um, as it actually was.

[00:30:41] 02Brett: [00:30:41] Yeah. That’s, that’s almost exactly what my I’m looking at. It, that’s almost exactly what my desk looks

[00:30:46] 01Christina: [00:30:46] exactly. And, and, but the people were kind of like, Oh my God, or whatever. And I wound up sending some other photos of just like the other half of my office and some other things to people. Cause people were roasting me on Twitter and I was like, that’s fine. But no, what happened was. You know, they gave me a couple of weeks to do this.

[00:31:00] [00:30:59] Like, Hey, can you, you know, do it right up at your desk and you’re set up and whatever I was like, yeah, sure. And in my mind, I was like, Oh, well, this’ll give me encouragement to actually fix and clean my desk and, and, you know, look fake like everyone else. And then of course the time comes. And that does not happen.

[00:31:15] And it’s not a situation. Like I have an actual deadline now with the installers because I’ve paid money and people are coming to my house. And so it’s, it’s a different thing. I’m also like, you know, I’ve just spent $5,000 or $4,000 on, um, a law on a computer that, you know, one of the reasons I got the configuration I got is that I want it mounted, you know, um, on my desk.

[00:31:38] And I want to have my second monitor, um, that I bought during quarantine, like on my desk too. And so, um, but it’s going to actually get taken care of, even if I have to hire someone to come and do stuff that it’s getting taken care of, but I, uh, the way I kind of rationalize it, I was just like, you know what, [00:32:00] like, I’m just going to read like the first paragraph of what I wrote.

[00:32:03] I was like, so my office and by extension, my desk are a dumpster fire. When Steven gave me this assignment a few weeks ago, I’d hoped that it would offer me some sort of incentive to clean things up. It did not rather than scar you all. I’ve taken some photos that hide my office mess as well as I can.

[00:32:18] While also allowing you to laugh. At slash with me, I imagine my office will be cleaned right around the time I’m allowed back into my corporate office. And, and, and that’s kind of true, but yeah, but I, I kind of like, you know, it was just one of those things that I was just like, fuck it. Like, I have a feeling that a lot more people’s desks look like yours and mine then like the ones that are, um, all over, like Instagram or Pinterest or Reddit or whatever.

[00:32:43] 02Brett: [00:32:43] Sure. I will say that I keep all of my mess underneath my camera. So when I have to video chat or zoom, Or, uh, anything that involves my webcam, my office actually looks pretty neat. I have some guitars hanging [00:33:00] on the wall, a tidy little moon pod over in the corner where I nest, uh, and you can see the, like the edge of a keyboard.

[00:33:07] You can see the edge of my, my walking desk treadmill, but if you pan down. It’s a jungle of cables and, and input devices, faces, and adapters and coffee mugs and bottles of medication. Yeah, this is a mess. I’m looking at a mess right now.

[00:33:28] 01Christina: [00:33:28] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, other than seeing some boxes in the background, like that’s what you see, you see some boxes when I have my webcam on, or my actually my. Overpay the Sony that I paid too much money. Yeah. The camera is worth the money. I just didn’t need that type of camera for what’s. I primarily uses webcam, but anyway, um, That, uh, like, you know, the background and stuff mostly just kind of see boxes.

[00:33:52] And so you can kind of say, Oh, it’s whatever, like the worst part. Cause it is pretty terrible is hidden. Um, and for a [00:34:00] while at first, the background was actually pretty clean. And now as this, this, this, you know, quarantine stuff has just gone on longer and longer. I’ve just cared less and less. It’s just kind of been like one of those, like the levels in which I like and try to hide from the world, my own.

[00:34:16] Like problems are, I’m just like, do not care, but, uh, well, it’s so weird though. I was the neatest kid. Yeah. Like. I dunno, it’s a weird thing. I, um, I wasn’t diagnosed with the ADHD really until college. I went on medicine for it in high school, but that was primarily at the time, the way it was kind of described was it was, they gave me the ADHD medicine to counteract some of the sleepy, the side effects that I had from my antidepressants.

[00:34:46] And also because, um, we found that it helped with my anxiety. But I was actually formally diagnosed in college. They’re like, no, you’re ADHD. You’re just like high functioning. But as a kid, not [00:35:00] only was I neat, I was like obsessive compulsive. Neat. Like if, you know, if a shoelace was. You know, visible outside of the drawer, if everything wasn’t put back, like exactly in its box.

[00:35:13] And although I am still that way, right. Like electronics, other things. Like I keep the boxes of shit, you know, I usually put it back where that is. And like, you know, but like, you know, every toy, like even when I play with my friends, like I was the annoying kid who like, we weren’t allowed to take out another toy until we put the other one away and, you know, and, and everything was like had its place and everything was perfect.

[00:35:33] And then when. It’s like, it was really when I hit puberty and I hit puberty. I’m like, like the, like the physical puberty or whatever, like late, you know, when I was like 15, she and 16. And when that happened, yeah, it’s in a lot of ways. It’s like something changed in my, in my brain and I became messy. Like, I just became messy and it did, I do for the most part.

[00:35:55] Yeah. Know where everything is. And there are parts of my mess that can be organized. [00:36:00] Like if I have cans, they’re usually stacked up in like a very intricate way. And like, I usually know exactly where something is, but yeah, I just, um, like I became like the very typical, like ADHD person who was just like, Messy as fuck.

[00:36:17] And it’s a problem because I do actually work a lot better in, in neatness and with structure. Yeah.

[00:36:23] 02Brett: [00:36:23] I see. I don’t think I do, but do you get angry? If someone messes with your mess?

[00:36:28] 01Christina: [00:36:28] Yes.

[00:36:29] 02Brett: [00:36:29] I can. Nobody is allowed to help me clean. Like if I’m going to clean fine out, I’ll buckle down, grit my teeth and I’ll clean. Or now tidy everything up and I’ll put everything in that fabled place for everything.

[00:36:44] And that’s fine. But if anyone, while I’m gone thinks, Oh, I’m going to tidy up for him. He’ll appreciate that wrong. I will not appreciate that. I will be angry with you and I will not be able to control my rage. It’s not a [00:37:00] rational thing. Um, I’m not like actually, like, I don’t hate you as a person for doing that.

[00:37:07] Um, I’m not gonna retaliate by like messing up something of yours. I just, I have this very deep seated reaction to any knowing that anyone touched my, my precious mess.

[00:37:21] 01Christina: [00:37:21] Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know what it is, it’s because you have the freaking Evernote thing of where everything goes and you know, like what it is, and I’m the same way. It’s like, I know. Where all of my terrible, like, things are like, I at least know where to find it. Like if I can get it, like at this point, Ashley would take help with my office because it’s so cluttered with boxes and it’s not like I want to, like, I want to like be clear, like, it’s not like.

[00:37:44] I know there isn’t food or anything like that, that it’s, it’s mostly, it’s just like boxes of shit that I’ve ordered. And it’s just, you know, and it’s just like physical taken up so much space, but it, uh, so I would probably accept help in this, in this regard, but yeah, I’ve had this where, you know, we’ve hired people to come in [00:38:00] and clean and whatnot.

[00:38:00] I’ve been very appreciative of what they’ve done, pay them a lot of money. And then I’m like, I have no idea where any of this stuff is. I have no idea where stuff is and I’ve lost stuff. And then I spend. So much time searching for it that I get, like create a mess again. So yeah, I’m the same way. I’m like, I need to be the one to do it.

[00:38:14] It also feels like it’s probably a little bit of a control thing. I don’t know. It’s irrational. Like you said, where like, people think they’re doing you a favor and they don’t, but, um, yeah, we, um, We, we, we had a housekeeper in, in New York and she was great and we’ve tried a number of different people in Seattle, and it’s just, it’s been hard for us to find somebody that can be kind of reliable and consistent.

[00:38:38] And also isn’t frankly like an outsized amount of money for. You know, what would be like? Cause once you have kind of a consistent regime, like, it shouldn’t be that much, you know, just coming in with clean the kitchen and maybe, you know, help with the laundry or whatever, um, you know, uh, clean the bathrooms or whatever.

[00:38:55] But, um, so we’ve, we’ve struggled in Seattle to like find [00:39:00] somebody for that. And also there was a, you know, grant was unemployed for a long time. And so, you know, it, wasn’t also like an economical thing, but we were going to have to get back. On that, because I do function better with, um, with things neat, but it’s hard for me.

[00:39:15] Like usually once I get it to a place where it’s good. I can keep it that way for a while. It doesn’t mean that it’ll all be perfect, but I can keep it relatively like in place. But the problem is, is that now at least for me, with my office, it has gone to the place where it’s not messy. It’s like untenable, like, you know, like I, like I said, I spent $1,500 on a chair that I, I’m not sitting in because I can’t get it in my office.

[00:39:38] That’s a problem.

[00:39:40] 02Brett: [00:39:40] Yeah, that’s problematic. I CA I’m not that bad.

[00:39:44] 01Christina: [00:39:44] Yeah.

[00:39:46] 02Brett: [00:39:46] Alright. You have my sympathy though.

[00:39:47] 01Christina: [00:39:47] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, and yeah, I mean, I think we can all kind of, you’ve probably been a place where you can like get to that point. And I, my, my thing is, is that just, I should have stepped in earlier and stopped it, but where, you know, [00:40:00] again, like the whole, I know where it is. And also frankly, like the anxiety around, like, if it’s like to be perfect or I don’t have the time to do this, or this is frankly overwhelming to me and whatever just keeps putting it off and putting it off.

[00:40:10] And now it’s at the point where I’m just like, okay, I’m going to have to. Like spin however much time it takes and fix this.

[00:40:17]02Brett: [00:40:17] And the thing. Aye. Aye. I can’t do house cleaners because I feel the need to clean before the house cleaner comes and it just feels like such a waste of money. The only thing it does is encourage it, like forces me to clean myself and then I should just pay someone to threaten me, to threaten, to come clean my

[00:40:39] 01Christina: [00:40:39] Oh, yeah, that’s a good idea. That’s a good idea. Yeah. You know what? I used to be that way with house cleaners. And again, I think it’s kind of like me with both the, you know, my camera when I’m on video calls and like letting people see the boxes and also like showing like, uh, you know, part of my desk or whatever, in the really newsletter at a certain point, I was just like, yup.

[00:40:59] Don’t [00:41:00] care. I don’t know it was, it was a weird, like mental thing for me. I think that when we finally got, got something in New York, it’s like, when you’ve had people come in and they like, see that your house is messy and that it’s problematic. And you’re like, all right, you know, I am paying you like at a certain point.

[00:41:17] Maybe this was group. Maybe it’s a good, bad thing. I don’t know. Cause I grew up like, my mom is insanely neat. Like my, my, my parents house is immaculate. It is showroom quality. My mom will be the plaque person where like, she’ll say it’s such a mess when it’s perfect, you know, but she, you know, has like, will vacuum all the time.

[00:41:32] And like when

[00:41:33] 02Brett: [00:41:33] Sorry about the mess. Excuse the

[00:41:35] 01Christina: [00:41:35] exactly,

[00:41:36] 02Brett: [00:41:36] my pristine home.

[00:41:38] 01Christina: [00:41:38] And she’s not seeing it as a flex. Like I think she really does see that, like there are imperfections and everybody else is like, what the hell are you talking about? And, um, you know, but like, you know, when the, the hardwood floors we had in the house that I grew up in.

[00:41:52] My childhood home. Um, like she would, she would have like the wool kind of like buffers and like the wax she’d be like wax the hardwood floors and like all that [00:42:00] stuff. And the, the, the one that and their, their new house, um, you know, have like sealants or whatever if they don’t do that. But it’s, yeah, like the house is, is Steen.

[00:42:08] And so, but she, we, we did have a maid when I was, when I was really little for a bit. And it was the same thing. My mom like would always clean for the maid and then she would get mad because the, the maid wouldn’t do. Things the way that she wanted, you know, so it was really one of those things, like, why are you paying for this?

[00:42:24] This is not helping you in any way, but I’ve like gone to a thing. I think, cause I was raised that way. It was like, Oh, you know, it’ll be embarrassing to people. See your house like this, and now I’m like, I’m paying you. And I don’t like I got I’m at the point where I’m kind of like, I’m sure you were judging me and thinking all kinds of things about me.

[00:42:42] And I’m kind of at the point where I’m like, I kind of don’t care, you know? Like, I don’t need to be friends with you. I don’t need to have anything else, like kind of don’t care. Like this is, you know, especially if you’re paying somebody like $50 an hour or whatever, I’m, I’m kind of okay with just being like, I’m kind of like fine.

[00:42:58] 02Brett: [00:42:58] My girlfriend [00:43:00] definitely carries a lot more shame about the tidiness of the house than I do, because like the amount of effort it takes to prepare the house for company back when we used to have company, um,

[00:43:14] 01Christina: [00:43:14] those days,

[00:43:15] 02Brett: [00:43:15] It was super stressful to the point where I, I don’t even like inviting people over because that meant, that meant like four hours of house cleaning.

[00:43:24] And I’m like, they’re my friends. They know me, they know me better than to think I live in a clean house. Um, so I, I don’t, I don’t, I do like, it was the, the shame of it was ingrained in me as a kid, but I have let go of a lot of that. Um, I can’t say it doesn’t exist at all.

[00:43:46] But, um, speaking of things we weren’t talking about, uh, we have, uh, we have a sponsor this week. We actually, I could have transitioned to this at multiple points previously in our conversation.

[00:43:59] 01Christina: [00:43:59] it [00:44:00] would have naturally been a really good segue, but this, it still works.

[00:44:04] 02Brett: [00:44:04] So our sponsor this week is express VPN, uh, which. Like all VPNs, lets you choose where you are. Um, appearing to come from, which has the major benefit and express VPN is perfect for this, uh, of allowing you to tell services like Netflix and Hulu and. I BBC that you’re coming from a country that you’re not actually in allowing you to view thousands of streaming movies and TV shows that you wouldn’t be able to otherwise, uh, express VPN works for this, especially well, because it’s blazing fast, uh, you can stream and without with no buffering of anything.

[00:44:49] Assuming you have a decent internet connection to start with, but it’s super simple to use you just fire up the express VPN app. You change your location and hit connect, and then you refresh [00:45:00] the page and the show or the movie you want to watch just magically appears. Um, we, we talked about BBC. Um, I, I have this weird relationship with British comedy where I find it hilarious, but also uncomfortable.

[00:45:15] 01Christina: [00:45:15] yes.

[00:45:17] 02Brett: [00:45:17] And. Every once in a while though, I’m in the perfect mood for that. And Netflix does not have copies of one of my favorite high school shows a black adder. So with express VPN, I can actually tell Netflix I’m in the UK where they do have black adder and I get to watch it. And I’ve heard, I’ve heard tell Christina that you actually use it for almost the, the reverse purpose.

[00:45:45] 01Christina: [00:45:45] Yeah. Yes. So, um, I’ve been a express, a pain, uh, express VPN user for over a year. And in olden times, when I used to travel all the time, it would be the way that I would be able to connect to [00:46:00] us streaming services. In foreign countries. So like I was in India and I was able to watch the game of Thrones finale and I didn’t want to miss it, even though it wasn’t that good.

[00:46:11] And the way that it worked, uh, at the HBO, in the hotel in India, didn’t carry it. And I tried to find like Indian streaming services that had it and I would have paid, but you needed an Indian bank account. I’m like, that was going to be a whole thing where I couldn’t do it. And so, yeah, I use, I use express VPN and I was able to log in to HBO, uh, whatever they called it then and, and watch it.

[00:46:35] And it was also, it was actually interesting. I was in Paris when Disney plus launched and, um, it didn’t launch in Europe. It launched in the U S and, and I, but I was in Paris when it launched and I wanted to watch some stuff and sure enough express VPN. Work perfectly from Paris also had a, we’ve also had instances where like we were in, um, I was trying to get access to a show for a friend of mine when [00:47:00] we were in Iceland.

[00:47:00] She wanted to watch something like, kind of for, for comfort and not Iceland, Finland w Washington for comfort. And yeah, once again, like express VPN, like I was able to connect to Hulu so that she could watch it. So, yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it is really good if you want to find stuff that, you know, cause every.

[00:47:18] Service has different streaming agreements in different countries. And, and there’s some stuff like, especially if you can find like stuff that’s available in Canada, that’s where you’re going to have like built this, the slowest amount of latency, um, you know, depending on where you live in, in your connection.

[00:47:31] And we especially be in works perfectly. Uh, but yeah, also, you know, the UK, you do it in other things. Um, it’s, it’s great. I’ve, I’ve been a big fan and, and happy pain user, like I said, for over a year and a highly recommended.

[00:47:47] 02Brett: [00:47:47] Almost a hundred different countries that you can choose from. Um, and if you use our link right now at express vpn.com/overtired, you can get an extra three months of express DPN [00:48:00] for free. So check out Xpress, vpn.com/overtired, um, and thanks to express VPN for supporting this delight of a show.

[00:48:11] 01Christina: [00:48:11] thank you.

[00:48:13]02Brett: [00:48:13] all right, so we have a weird list of stuff.

[00:48:17] I, I, my let’s let’s do a health

[00:48:21] 01Christina: [00:48:21] Yeah, look, look, look, let’s do it. Christina and Brett, a health corner update. How are you doing with the, with stuff, Brett?

[00:48:28] 02Brett: [00:48:28] I so about, I dunno, it’s been like four months now, five months, maybe. I, I quit nicotine. I’d been, I had quit vaping years ago now and had been using patches and lozenges for quite some time. And I quit and I didn’t no for sure that it was related, but you may recall that several years ago I lost 70 pounds.

[00:49:00] [00:48:59] When I quit nicotine almost immediately within the course of 30 days with no diet changes, no exercise changes. I gained almost 30 pounds

[00:49:09] 01Christina: [00:49:09] my God.

[00:49:10] 02Brett: [00:49:10] and it was frightening. And I went to the doctor and there

[00:49:15] 01Christina: [00:49:15] W was that the only, like you didn’t have any medication changes,

[00:49:18] 02Brett: [00:49:18] no, no medication changes. The only thing that changed was trying to quit nicotine. So obviously I went back on nicotine. So now I have two problems I’m overweight and addicted to nicotine. Um,

[00:49:30] 01Christina: [00:49:30] say?

[00:49:31] 02Brett: [00:49:31] the doctor said that my metabolism had just shifted and, uh, like I’ve tried in the, in the succeeding months too.

[00:49:41] Uh, to diet, to exercise more and nothing will change my weight. Even a pound. Like my weight is just stuck at two 20 and it does not fluctuate, no matter how good or how bad I am based on like someone’s idea of like proper diet and everything. [00:50:00] Cause I eat healthy to begin with. So for me, like calorie restriction is it there’s not much left to eat.

[00:50:07] If I, if I restrict calories

[00:50:09] 01Christina: [00:50:09] Yeah. Well, and in some ways I think that, I mean, and I don’t know, it depends on how much you’re eating or whatever, but like, in some ways it can have the negative impact. Like if you restrict too much, then your body goes into starvation mode and starts to like, you know, it doesn’t burn anything. So it has the, the inverse.

[00:50:24] 02Brett: [00:50:24] nutrition is fun. So then I read about intermittent fasting and what I decided to try it partly to see if it could affect my weight and partly to see. Uh, how it affected my energy levels and I’ve been doing it now for a couple of weeks. I eat all of my meals between 1:00 PM and 9:00 PM, and then do not eat coffee, but no food, uh, for the rest of the day.

[00:50:57] Uh, which really, for me just means [00:51:00] skipping breakfast, which, uh, I like breakfast food, but I have no need to eat it at a certain time of day. Um, so it’s been pretty easy. I have actually lost a couple, a couple of pounds, like not any like significant sudden improvement, but I’ve lost two pounds and it’s stayed off.

[00:51:21] So the scales, no, two 18, um, which is still, I was two 65 years back. So two 18 is still, I’m not like back where I was or

[00:51:34] 01Christina: [00:51:34] No, no, no, no, but it’s still to go to like, to gain 30 pounds almost overnight. I mean, not, it’s not, that’s not a small yeah, totally. And that has to be, I mean, cause you worked so hard. I mean, you changed your whole lifestyle. Like you, you started doing yoga, like your health improved in every level, like, and

[00:51:51] 02Brett: [00:51:51] a divorced actually. I think those might’ve been related, but, um, But it has the intermittent fasting has helped my energy level. [00:52:00] Um, my focus in the mornings is it’s really good. Uh, there’s occasionally between noon and one, I’ll start thinking about lunch and then all I can think about is lunch.

[00:52:13] And that gets that that is not productive. I can’t focus on other things then, but that is maybe one out of every seven days that happens. And for the most part, actually, I’m really liking the mental, the awareness and the energy level. I have. Um, you do get this thing where when you do eat at one, you get like a food fog out of it. But, this seems to be, uh, a reasonable lifestyle change that doesn’t require, like you don’t have to do all the Quito, paleo WeightWatchers stuff. You can eat just regular, healthy food that you enjoy. And it’s just a matter of when [00:53:00] you eat it. It’s a, it’s a, a diet timing instead of a diet. So I’m kind of liking it.

[00:53:06] 01Christina: [00:53:06] Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. Um, it’s interesting. Like, I, I honestly, I haven’t ever explicitly done intermittent fasting and at this point my weight is the, the lowest it’s been probably, um, probably in a decade. Um,

[00:53:24] 02Brett: [00:53:24] Since your double zero days.

[00:53:26] 01Christina: [00:53:26] I mean, I’m back to my double zero days. So, uh, like that that’s, that’s completely back, like to the point where like, my, my problem actually now, especially with like the pandemic stuff is like, I have to like remind myself to eat.

[00:53:38] And so I I’ve naturally kind of gone to that place where I might have like one big meal a day. I don’t do intermittent fasting, but I’ve done that. But even like, when I was younger, like my older sister always had this thing, she was always like no carbs after two. And. Uh, and other types of, you know, things that are frankly like, okay, no one listened to me or my sisters, like.

[00:53:59] Uh, [00:54:00] advice on, on body, your body image, because it’s completely fucked and warped and messed up in every single way. So like no one take any of my advice around anything for dieting or anything else because my, my body image is, is fucked and, and my older sister’s most certainly is. Yeah. But you know, like there have been things that you would know, like when I was in college and, and I think I gained like 10 pounds.

[00:54:20] It was not lot a lot. And, and you have to understand that I was like, 87 pounds when I entered college. So like, it really was nothing, but I was still freaked out by it and I was going to the gym and I was doing, you know, like other stuff, like, it was really what it was puberty thing. It wasn’t like, it was like a hormone thing.

[00:54:36] It wasn’t anything else, but it was one of those things. It was like, okay, well, you know, if I, I don’t eat certain foods after certain times, or if you know, you do certain things around this, then. Things will balance out and it certainly works and lots and lots of people do intermittent fasting and people say that it can work really well.

[00:54:53] I am curious with, like, with your ADHD meds, does that help with your metabolism or with like [00:55:00] your hunger or through kind of those, um, like the hard times with like that 12 to one. Does that have any impact at all? Or.

[00:55:08] 02Brett: [00:55:08] You know, I’m not sure. I haven’t, I haven’t tried doing it without meds. Um, that would be interesting. I do know. I think that, like, this would be way easier if I had cocaine.

[00:55:21] 01Christina: [00:55:21] Yeah,

[00:55:22] 02Brett: [00:55:22] Um, great appetite suppressant. If you want to take anyone’s diet advice, I recommend,

[00:55:28] 01Christina: [00:55:28] Absolutely.

[00:55:29] 02Brett: [00:55:29] just a good, a good Coke habit.

[00:55:31] 01Christina: [00:55:31] The, the, the cocaine diet is, is, um, it’s, it’s usually, it’s one of those, the doc,

[00:55:36] 02Brett: [00:55:36] and effective.

[00:55:37] 01Christina: [00:55:37] is proven ineffective doctors. Usually don’t like to recommend it, but it is proven and effective for sure.

[00:55:43] 02Brett: [00:55:43] Not out loud anyway,

[00:55:45] 01Christina: [00:55:45] Yeah, exactly. They’re they’re

[00:55:46] 02Brett: [00:55:46] a wink, wink, and a nudge. No, don’t nobody do cocaine. It’s insidious. Don’t listen to me. Um, I’m bad. Um, but yeah, I’m not sure how I, I think, I think that [00:56:00] if I didn’t have my meds, I probably would think a lot more about food if that’s what you’re asking. And I, I think that’s probably the case.

[00:56:09] Yes.

[00:56:09]01Christina: [00:56:09] Um, you, you, you, or do you still, do you still, um, drink Soylent?

[00:56:14] 02Brett: [00:56:14] Hmm. I have a 12 pack of the, the bottled stuff and I drink it when I’m too lazy to chew anything. There are times I get so into a project that the act of chewing seems too distracting. It’s like that hyper-focus that I get. And that’s when I’ll drink Soylent, which I think really is what it was designed for, for programmers who don’t want to make a meal.

[00:56:44] Um, and, and so, yes, I do, but it’s not a regular part of my diet. No.

[00:56:51] 01Christina: [00:56:51] yeah, cause grant has, um, you know, his weight has fluctuated. He’d lost a ton of weight and he’d gained some back, which is understandable to everything that’s happened. But one of the things that really [00:57:00] helped him was like, he’s basically just gone on like, Shakes, like as being his kind of like primary, you know, food source and then, and then going more keto with other things because he, um, he binge eats it.

[00:57:12] He has some of the other stuff and it just becomes like a habit of, of other things. So, um, you know, he doesn’t do Soylent, but he does, you know, like whatever, some of those, you know, like meal replacement shakes or things are whatever. So I know that that can be helpful, but yeah, no, that’s, that’s interesting.

[00:57:28]I’m glad that the intermittent fasting at least so far seems to be, you know, helping some, and I don’t know, maybe it’ll help kickstart things. When I, when I had that thing, when I went off my meds and, and I gained 40 pounds, you know, that was, that was hard. And I’m like,

[00:57:49] 02Brett: [00:57:49] Like emotionally hard.

[00:57:50] 01Christina: [00:57:50] Oh, yeah. Emotionally, it was, it was, it took me months to even realize what had actually happened.

[00:57:56] And, and then

[00:57:56] 02Brett: [00:57:56] was so proud to have lost the weight that it felt [00:58:00] like a real, it felt degrading to have gained any of it

[00:58:04] 01Christina: [00:58:04] yeah. I was

[00:58:05] 02Brett: [00:58:05] it was so much a part of who I had become, like, I’m a guy who lost all this

[00:58:10] 01Christina: [00:58:10] right, right, right, right, right. Like, well, I was kind of in a, in a. I mean that I think I can relate to that. Cause I think that that’s how I would feel like I, you know, that happened and it, you know, I think that some of it was, you know, getting older and like being in my thirties and like, you know, metabolism changing and whatever.

[00:58:27] And then some of it was, you know, to the fact that I was. When I looked at the amount of calories I was consuming, especially with the amount of regular soda I was drinking, it was truly important and stupid. Um, and then I think a lot of it too was, it was just like, okay, you know, you had been on this medication, uh, you know, dextrin for like really long time.

[00:58:45] You went off of it. You ghosted your shrink, which is dumb. No one do that. You also went off of your antidepressants. Like, you know, I just, I made really bad decisions. And, but what I was able to do is before I went back on my meds, I did lose the weight. [00:59:00] Uh, but it, it took, you know, cutting out, cutting out sugar was the big thing and it wasn’t intermittent fasting, but it was a thing what I noticed cause, and I kind of fell into this is that I would tend to eat meals really late at night.

[00:59:15] So I would get home from work late. And then I would order, cause you know, in New York city, like you can, there is delivery all times of the night and you can get, you know, diner, food or whatever. And so I would get stuff delivered. Yeah. And it would, I would be eating, you know, Um, high caloric, you know, high-fat whatever stuff like late at night, and then you could go and that’s not good.

[00:59:33] So, uh, you know, I made a conscious decision to do that and unfortunately I lost the weight, but yo, I can’t imagine, like now it is like, Probably my, my greatest fear and I’ve never been a heavy person. And frankly, even when I gained the 40 pounds, like no one would say that I was always overweight. Like that, wasn’t the case.

[00:59:50] It’s just my body. Wasn’t built to support that. Like my body is in my frame and whatnot is built a certain way and I need to weigh more than I weigh [01:00:00] now. But, um, certainly you know, where, where that was at. Like it wasn’t good. And I have like this, you know, total, like. Fear, you know what I mean of like that ever happening again.

[01:00:13] So I can only imagine, like, you’ve worked so hard and you changed so many things, you lost all that weight. And then to see it come back when you haven’t gone into the bad behaviors that, you know, maybe led to it the first time, like that’s gotta be the worst part, right.

[01:00:25] 02Brett: [01:00:25] I made like total lifestyle changes and kept them going for years and, and maintained 190 pounds per years. Anyway, speaking of food delivery, uh, during our first episode of this season, I talked about how living in a small town and it’s okay because we get all their deliveries, just like everybody else.

[01:00:47] The day that came out. I got an email from hello, fresh saying that my food delivery for the week had been entirely canceled.

[01:00:55] 01Christina: [01:00:55] Oh my God.

[01:00:56] 02Brett: [01:00:56] Uh, they, they couldn’t get it to me in time, so it wouldn’t be [01:01:00] fresh. And now I wasn’t going to get it at all. So I’ve been living on like, well, no, I went grocery

[01:01:06] 01Christina: [01:01:06] I was going to say you have a car, right? I was going to say, you can just go to the grocery store, right.

[01:01:10] 02Brett: [01:01:10] what am I supposed to do? Grocery shop? Um, it was just ironic that,

[01:01:16] 01Christina: [01:01:16] That day. That like, literally

[01:01:18] 02Brett: [01:01:18] And, and honestly, I, it was probably a FedEx problem, but I’m going to blame Trump for it, just because you know, this whole male thing’s happening. And, uh, I had, I had breakfast with my parents as I do almost every Saturday morning.

[01:01:33] We live in the same town and, um, they are, I don’t know if you know this about me, but I’m. I’m like beyond liberal, I’m a, I’m a radical, a radical leftist.

[01:01:47] 01Christina: [01:01:47] what

[01:01:47] 02Brett: [01:01:47] Um, yeah, I know. I try to break it to people slowly, but, uh, my parents are the exact opposite. They are radical. [01:02:00] Rightists uh, also known as fundamentalist Christian conservatives.

[01:02:04] And we are really good at doing this ballet around certain topics or 90% of topics where we can kind of, yeah, we can kind of toe into it, but then everyone kind of just backs back up and says, uh huh. Okay. Um, I don’t remember what happened this morning. Um, we were talking about the pandemic and the government response to the pandemic.

[01:02:31] That’s where it started. And a statement was made that Trump deserves credit for Pfizer’s vaccine. And I was a guest. Well, how could you say that? A company which stands to make billions of dollars off of the research that they’re funding, subsidized research they’re funding. Wouldn’t have come up with a vaccine no matter who was president or [01:03:00] what was done as long as there was a free market.

[01:03:02] It seems to me that the credit goes to the drug companies and all of those of us who put the money in their pockets. And that led to, um, uh, chain of events that predictably ended up arguing about abortion rights. And that’s how breakfast went.

[01:03:19]01Christina: [01:03:19] I’m. I’m really sorry.

[01:03:21] 02Brett: [01:03:21] It is it’s frustrating to me because I, I watch enough, uh, left-wing analysis of right wing media.

[01:03:31] Like, I’m not gonna say, like I watch Fox news to get their perspective on things like what I see the clips and I, when they lay out their arguments, I know exactly where they got them from. And I know the flawed information that they’re working with and. It’s hard to argue with people who just believes something.

[01:03:55] They heard Tucker Carlson say like [01:04:00] there’s no, you can lay down all the facts in the world and they will be glossed over. And you get into those arguments where if you present a factual argument that can’t be denied, they just switched tax. Yeah, but what about this? And what about this? And that’s how you get from, uh, uh, Pfizer to abortion in a relatively short span of time.

[01:04:27] We, the common ground we found was Joe Biden. Like both of us dislike Joe Biden, just for complete opposite reasons. Like they think he’s going to lead to socialism. And I think he’s not going to lead nearly far enough for socialism. Um, but we agree that he’s a bad candidate. Uh, we, we agree. We, we agreed that Trump is a bad person, but they’re going to vote for Trump and I’m going to vote for Biden.

[01:04:59] Even though we [01:05:00] have our reservations. So that’s almost a common ground. That’s as close as we got to common ground. Anyway. Um, yeah, that, I just had to get that out, uh, I guess, because I can come home and I can rent to my girlfriend about, about that, but.

[01:05:16] 01Christina: [01:05:16] no, I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m in a similar thing. I mean, and I’m in a weird thing where I, like, I can’t see my parents because it’s not safe and they live in Georgia and they’re both in their seventies. And even though they’re both very healthy, like I don’t want to potentially expose them to anything. And so I don’t know when I’m going to be able to see them again.

[01:05:33] And that really scares me. And my dad’s, you know, just had this thing where he had like, hit like a stroke in his eye. And so he lost vision in most of his left eye. And it is, it’s really scary because he like, like, you know, everything was fine. And then he woke up one day and like he had like a weird

[01:05:55]02Brett: [01:05:55] I just edited in a sound that [01:06:00] signifies that while we were talking, there was a horrible, um, rebooting disastrous rebooting of my computer. Um, so you were talking about, uh, your dad’s eye.

[01:06:13] 01Christina: [01:06:13] Yeah. Yeah. So my dad had this, this random, just weird like thing. I think they call it like a stroke in his eyes or whatever, and he’s lost a significant amount of vision in one of his eyes and, you know, dealing with bath stuff and, you know, and, and that has everybody concerned. Cause you don’t like. Yeah, the eyes are kind of connected.

[01:06:30] You know, I don’t want, you know, is that gonna affect the vision? It is good. I liked is he gonna have to wear a patch? I don’t know. And I can’t go out and see them because it’s not safe. And so I’m not under the position to argue, or I don’t feel like I’m in a position to argue, like I did when I was younger or even like I did in 2016 when at least then even if I didn’t see them that frequently, I was like, I can, you know, so I totally understand where you’re coming from and I’ve had so many of those same arguments.

[01:07:00] [01:07:00] I just I’m at this point now with the current stuff that I just I’m having to not be the bigger person, but I’m just like prioritizing. I’m just like, I’m just staff of Facebook. I’m just not having the conversations about it. I’m just doing everything I can to like, not engage with it because I, I, I, I just.

[01:07:21] Am worried that because I don’t, I don’t have that. She needed to see them. I don’t want like the times that we do talk or whatever, to be getting into arguments about like the most terrible person

[01:07:33] 02Brett: [01:07:33] and that’s the thing is I really, I do. I love my parents. I, I appreciate that. They have always loved me, even though we differ very drastically, especially on politics. But on life in general, like they, their, their life is very much centered around their religion. And mine is very much centered around my atheism.

[01:07:58] And, [01:08:00] uh, whether those two things are directly related as far as bioperine goes, uh, pretty obvious lines to be drunk. But yeah. Anyway, like I don’t, we yeah. Avoid those topics because we do have other things to talk about and. And we can be family without having to constantly be at each other’s throats and something went wrong this morning.

[01:08:21] And I think partly because I decided I was gonna cheat and actually for the last few weeks, since I started this intermittent fasting, I’ve been just watching them eat breakfast, which has been awkward for all of us. Um, and this morning I was like, you know, I’m gonna, I’ll just, I’ll reduce calories for the rest of the day.

[01:08:41] I’ll just out have some pancakes with them this morning. And I think I was feeling a little shitty about that decision. So I was already in a bit of a ornery place. And then I couldn’t, I just,

[01:08:55] 01Christina: [01:08:55] well, and you’re human dude. You’re human. Like there’s only so [01:09:00] much.

[01:09:00] 02Brett: [01:09:00] When people say things that I strongly disagree with I’m I am not a person who does a good job of biting my tongue. And I don’t hate that about myself. I actually, I consider that to be a sign of conviction,

[01:09:15]01Christina: [01:09:15] I

[01:09:16] 02Brett: [01:09:16] but, but there, there are times when it is far smarter in my life to, to just not say anything because I’m not going to change their minds. aye. Aye. Aye. Never, no matter how many facts I’ve come with, no matter how many studies and, and resources and well sourced material I’ve come at them with. I have never, they have never budged on anything and yeah, best we’ll find one point we already agree on and then leave it at that. And so it’s, there’s no reason I have to open my mouth.

[01:09:55] There’s no reason. Like if I thought I could make a [01:10:00] difference, I would feel morally obligated to say, here’s why I think you’re wrong, but I’m not going to make a difference. So is there a point.

[01:10:07]01Christina: [01:10:07] Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I think that it’s probably not a point in arguing with them, but there is something to be said, and I think this is where. I, this is why I’ve spoken up. And I’ve had like, the argument sometimes is it’s like, if you, if you hear somebody saying something that is like factually or morally wrong, like, I don’t know.

[01:10:24] There’s a part of me that does feel like a moral imperative to be like, no, this is not okay. And what’s happening here is not okay. And maybe we won’t agree. Maybe I won’t change your mind, but I’m not going to just sit back and like, listen to you. Like say something that’s like, Wrong. At least that’s how I’ve, I’ve traditionally been.

[01:10:42] And now I’m in this position where I’m like not going on Facebook. We’re purposely not bringing any of that stuff up and I’m not engaging because I don’t want to get into it. Uh, I do think, I think for me, where I kind of draw the line, like grant gets into fights with his mom and stuff all the time and will argue with people.

[01:10:59] I [01:11:00] try to go out of my way, not to argue with people on Facebook. Like even when I do go on, on,

[01:11:04] 02Brett: [01:11:04] that’s never been productive in the history of Facebook.

[01:11:07] 01Christina: [01:11:07] Right. And, and for me, I’m just also, it’s just one of those things. Like, I don’t appreciate people coming to like my posts and trying to like, argue with me and try to like, you know, like yell at me about stuff.

[01:11:16] So why would I do that with them? Like, I’m just not going to do it, but I feel like it’s different. Like if we’re having an active conversation, That’s when it’s much harder for me to, to disagree gauge. Now there are obviously times when you have to be like the bigger person and you just have to like, recognize like, okay, this is, you know, your, your grandmother, grandfather, or this is your spouse’s parent.

[01:11:41] And you’re not in a position where you, you should keep it, your mouth shut, right? Like that’s the plight and the correct thing to do do, or, you know, you’re in a social setting where it’s just not appropriate and you need to just like, Let it go. Um, and, and some people probably argue that there are never positions where you should let, you know, uh, incorrect and, and, [01:12:00] and terrible things be said without stepping in and encouraging them.

[01:12:03] And yeah, maybe they’re right. But I just feel like there are, there are social situations where it’s just like, This is not the appropriate time to have this, this sort of outlay. And it’s like, you observe whatever they’ve said, you don’t agree with it. Um, and, and if you’re asked directly you push back, but you don’t need to get into a back and forth, but, you know, I, it is hard for me if I’m having a conversation, like I imagine, you know, you’re at breakfast and, you know, you hear that, that comes up and like, Yeah, it’s going to be really hard for you as somebody who is well read and well researched on it, even though you know that you’re not changing their minds.

[01:12:36] It’s, there’s like a part of it. That’s like you, can’t not say something like, I don’t know. It’s hard.

[01:12:43] 02Brett: [01:12:43] Have you ever seen the YouTube channel? Some more news.

[01:12:47]01Christina: [01:12:47] No, I don’t think I have.

[01:12:48] 02Brett: [01:12:48] You got to see this guy? I think, I think it’s Cody Johnson is his

[01:12:52] 01Christina: [01:12:52] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. I didn’t know. I didn’t know. That was the name of it, but yeah, I’ve

[01:12:55] 02Brett: [01:12:55] there’s a, there’s a whole team of writers

[01:12:58] 01Christina: [01:12:58] Yeah. Yeah,

[01:12:58] 02Brett: [01:12:58] the, but the he’s this, [01:13:00] his, his shtick is a disheveled looking newscaster. With like a five o’clock shadow slash full beard and a undone tie. And anyway, like his it’s, it’s the kind of, it’s the kind of liberal that I am like. It, it will acknowledge that there were a lot of problems with Obama and there were a lot of problems with bill Clinton and maybe even more problems with.

[01:13:30] The interims, but, uh, like it’s something that is so, uh, left wing that I could never use it as a source in a conversation with my parents, but I will put it out there for anyone who thinks that the, uh, the democratic party has lost their way and, uh, are far too moderate. Here’s some, here’s a great YouTube channel for you.

[01:13:55] It’s called some more news. And also even more news. It’s the podcast.

[01:14:00] [01:14:00] 01Christina: [01:14:00] Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, I ha I’ve um, I don’t like watch him regularly, but I’ve seen his stuff before, but good. A good shout out, um, to that. So, We your computer like had a weird crashing thing and I, okay. I had the weirdest audio problem that I’ve discovered this week that I just wanted to share with you because I wanted to know if you’d ever heard of anything like this.

[01:14:23] It’s absolutely insane. And I think it has to do with where I live. So I was recording something and in the silence bits or whatnot, there was this very faint, like radio-frequency. In the background of all of my recordings and I’m using like a very expensive mic and I’m using like a preamp and, um, you know, kind of an amp and like, you know, like digital, like recording, you know, device, like the setup is, is significantly better than what I usually use.

[01:14:55] And it was one of those things that if you like, listen to it at, at, you know, kind of [01:15:00] not super high volume and you weren’t listening to, you know, the stuff like you wouldn’t hear it, but then it, like, if you, you know, you raised the game, you’re like, Oh, what the hell is this? So have you ever had that.

[01:15:12] 02Brett: [01:15:12] I’m not personally, but I published a blog post about my, my current podcasting setup for these, uh, for these podcasts reboots. And one of the commenters mentioned that with his XLR. Mike going through a whatever interface and a couple of mixers. He had a lot of problems with cell phone interference, like having a cell phone too close to the setup.

[01:15:42] And I I’ve experienced cell phone interference on recordings before.

[01:15:46] 01Christina: [01:15:46] I have to.

[01:15:47] 02Brett: [01:15:47] that’s happened. So I’m wondering if there’s something that’s not shielded properly or.

[01:15:53] 01Christina: [01:15:53] Well, and, and that was kind of my initial thought. And when I was troubleshooting with the people, I was like recording with, like, we were [01:16:00] playing with that and they were like, are you, are you grounded? And I was like, yeah, I was in a direct, like a three-pronged ground. And she was into, you know, an extension into a three-prong like, You know, outlet, but I liked indirectly, directly plugged in, you know, I changed stuff around, well, what it turns out.

[01:16:14] And, and, but then when I was talking to grant about this, we kind of realized actually it’s funny. One of the people I was working with, he mentioned that he used to live in Seattle. And when he lived in Capitol Hill, where I live, he had like a turntable and he had, I guess, like a, kind of a shitty pair of like amplified speakers or whatever.

[01:16:31] And he would hear radio noises coming through. Those amplified speakers. And when he said that it hit me, I was like, grant has a car that doesn’t have an antenna, but can pick up NPR. And KEXP was just like the indie rock station. And the, we also had situations where we have like really shitty amplified speakers.

[01:16:54] Like we had them in our kitchen and they were like, just really tiny, like computer speaker things. And I could [01:17:00] hear very faintly, like radio signals. So. What it is, is that I think it’s because I basically live on, on top of like two radio transmitters. And it is something that like is in the way walls and the ground and whatever, what we wound up being able to kind of fix it.

[01:17:18] It was a most bizarre thing. I was connecting the, you know, recording device, um, over USBC to my Mac and passing through that way. And. They said, okay, we’ll unplug the USB cable and see if that, you know, maybe fixes the issue. And in my mind, I’m like, okay, but the USB cable it’s ones and zeros, like, there’s no way that this is going to have any impact on anything.

[01:17:41] And, and I still feel like technically that makes complete sense. Like there’s no reason that the USB would have any impact, but for whatever reason, when I unplugged that and then just recorded directly on that device and didn’t have that pass through. Going through the computer, which was then going through, you know, like, you know, Skype or whatever.

[01:17:59][01:18:00] It’s like the, the, the situation fixed itself. So now I wonder, like if maybe there was an issue with how my man book is grounded and that is, you know, the issue, I don’t know, but it’s the most bizarre thing, cause I’ve never heard anything like it. And it’s one of those things. Like, you wouldn’t hear it at like kind of, you know, normal volumes, but like with things way raised and like something recorded, especially on like a very, very high quality, like Mike that picks up kind of like everything that you hear.

[01:18:26] This it’s radio, it’s a radio frequency. It’s the most bizarre thing. It’s like, I have like spooked stuff. So like between that and, um, you know, my SD card breaking and half in my hand. And you having like, reboots, like, I’m just, I’m just feeling like there’s some sort of audio curse on me this week.

[01:18:44]02Brett: [01:18:44] It’s just 2020. That’s just how bad this year is. Everything’s just breaking.

[01:18:49] 01Christina: [01:18:49] Hurricane fires, dude.

[01:18:51]02Brett: [01:18:51] What the fuck? Right.

[01:18:52] 01Christina: [01:18:52] Like what the fuck? I don’t know.

[01:18:55]02Brett: [01:18:55] Oh, no. What?

[01:18:56] 01Christina: [01:18:56] I mean, I just, I don’t know. I was just like, you know, just [01:19:00] all of it, just all of it. Not, not, not anything specific to, uh, to, to us or anything, but yeah,

[01:19:05] 02Brett: [01:19:05] yeah, no hell of a year. Hell of a night. Hi, Ted. Nothing like a late nineties, Madonna four rooms references.

[01:19:14] 01Christina: [01:19:14] for real, for real I talk about people. Like I do give her a pass, cause she’s like 61, but like even I’m at this point and I’m like heart, you know, we’ve, I’ve defended Madonna many times on this podcast and I’ve been, I’m like, okay, Madonna, like just, yeah.

[01:19:31]02Brett: [01:19:31] Tishi really need money.

[01:19:34] 01Christina: [01:19:34] Right, right. I mean, I think, I think what it, for her, what it probably is like, she still looks great and like, her body’s still really like, other than like, when she had like her hurt, but she fell and had the knee problem or whatever. Like she still like looks really fit. And I think she’s probably, I don’t know.

[01:19:46] I’m kind of like, cause I have this massive fear of aging and I have a feeling like hers has to be like three times that thing, she just doesn’t want to like admit that like, you know, she doesn’t. Like, I don’t know, like go, not go [01:20:00] away, but like, you don’t have to, you don’t have to continue to be doing all the stuff that you do.

[01:20:06] I know she’s 62 actually. Shit. She just turned 60, 62. Yeah. I mean, she looks amazing,

[01:20:12] 02Brett: [01:20:12] She does. She does. and I, I, I get it. I get it. And I, Madonna is probably always going to be hot.

[01:20:21] 01Christina: [01:20:21] Yeah, totally, totally. Um, But yeah, no, I mean, there’s, there’s just things where it’s just at this point with Madonna will always be hot and Madonna will always be Madonna, but there are just certain things. I’m just, you see her on social media and doing stuff and we’re just like, dude, it it’s going cringe in ways that shouldn’t stop.

[01:20:39] 02Brett: [01:20:39] She could just, she could pick up like young guys and live a very private life and get all the affirmation. I think that a 62 year old pop star could need a, without having to put herself out there and ways that are potentially embarrassing.

[01:20:57] 01Christina: [01:20:57] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it’s not [01:21:00] just embarrassing for her, but if like, you know, I, I feel bad for like, for Lordis. Like I, I, you know, and, and the other kids and like, yeah. Cause, you know that they’re like looking at this and they’re like, mom, just stop. You know that, they’re just like, they’re like, mom, seriously, like you’re making this difficult for all of us, but yeah, I think just, just like,

[01:21:19] 02Brett: [01:21:19] we’ve talked about this mom.

[01:21:21] 01Christina: [01:21:21] keep it off Instagram, that’s all I’m saying, like still do your thing.

[01:21:24] Still do all of your stuff and actually still tour or whatever, but like just keep it off Instagram. Like you don’t need to just keep it off Instagram.

[01:21:32] 02Brett: [01:21:32] If I, if I had any level of success in my twenties and thirties, I would definitely want to not be touring in my sixties. I would like to say. Um, I can live off residuals and royalties for the rest of my life and not touring is not easy.

[01:21:56] 01Christina: [01:21:56] no, no,

[01:21:57] 02Brett: [01:21:57] on a show is not easy. It’s a young, [01:22:00] it’s a young person’s game.

[01:22:02] 01Christina: [01:22:02] yeah, I have to wonder, I don’t know. I mean, in, and I don’t want this to go or episodes already super long, but I do have to wonder, like, if this is one of those things where if it’s not, it’s not about the fact that you have the money or the success. I think for some of these people, like, I think that for her, I think that for maybe people like the stones, people like Paul McCartney, like this is something where it’s a huge part of your identity.

[01:22:24] Like if you aren’t. A musician, if you aren’t playing publicly, like, cause here’s the thing, like obviously there are some people who can say, Oh, I just do this for the art, but there are, there’s another component to it, which is you do it because you do like that. People listen to it. You like the affirmation, you like the public part.

[01:22:40] Like there’s nothing wrong with that. Like I’m, I’m. I mean, you and I were doing this podcast and I do stuff because I like the public affirmation of it. And I like to share myself and whatnot. Right. Like I’m I, um, I enjoy that. And so I wonder if for some of those artists, like, if it’s, because them it’s on a much, much bigger level, right?

[01:22:57] Like if it’s one of those things where it’s like, [01:23:00] for some of them, not all of them, but for some of them, their personalities are just such that like, they, can’t not, not only not create or whatever, but they, can’t not like be. Sharing that and be public because that’s a core part of their identity.

[01:23:13] 02Brett: [01:23:13] Well, and it’s a huge, ah, if, if you’ve come to rely on public affirmation for your self worth. If that becomes a big part of how you see yourself, I can see that being hard to retire from. Um, but I think that any healthy person can retire and can find new interests and new fulfillment in things that maybe aren’t what they did when they were 20 years old.

[01:23:47] But that’s just me. I hope to retire and be a very lonely curmudgeon someday.

[01:23:54] 01Christina: [01:23:54] Yeah. Yeah, no. And I think that for most people, that’s probably true. I don’t know though, with your [01:24:00] Madonna, like.

[01:24:02] 02Brett: [01:24:02] I’m not, if

[01:24:03] 01Christina: [01:24:03] I know you’re not, but, but you know what I mean? I think that like, if you are somebody who is Madonna, who like. It is a core part of everything that you’ve done. It has to be really difficult.

[01:24:14] I w I would imagine like, kind of reconciling the fact that not only are you changing an aging and that the world is changing around you, but you’re, you’re not, you know, even 40 anymore. Right. That it’s like, it it’s different. I don’t know. I, I, I have, I don’t know how I would deal with that. And, and I it’s, it’s interesting to see, um, have you watched the Taylor Swift documentary, miss Americana?

[01:24:40] 02Brett: [01:24:40] It’s on my list, but no.

[01:24:42] 01Christina: [01:24:42] All right. So I want you to watch that I will listen to some and you will send me some other things to like watch and listen. But my homework for you is to watch miss Americana, because I would love to have a discussion with you about it. I’m on a future show because it’s a really interesting documentary.

[01:24:57] And she’s, she’s one of [01:25:00] those that I do. I’m curious how she will, she’s obviously like made a conscious decision to be less in the spotlight. Like it’s. Very conscientious. What, at the same time, like, especially if you watch the documentary, you do see that most of her self worth and self identity has been based on like public affirmation.

[01:25:20] And it’ll be interesting to see like, I’m very interested to see like what Taylor Swift will be like in 30 years. You know what I mean? Like if she’s like a Carol King or like a Joni Mitchell and kind of, you know, like a, you know, either kind of in, um, like nobody knows where you are or, you know, just comes out occasionally for, you know, worst memories and whatnot, or if she’s, you know, like a, like a Tina Turner, um, who kind of hires gracefully, or if she’s like a Madonna, who’s still, you know, doing it.

[01:25:50] 02Brett: [01:25:50] Doing it

[01:25:51] 01Christina: [01:25:51] Is still doing it. Yeah. Uh, but anyway, but also, but that just made me think

[01:25:55] 02Brett: [01:25:55] cute. Do you want to know my prediction?

[01:25:57] 01Christina: [01:25:57] that?

[01:25:58] 02Brett: [01:25:58] I think Taylor Swift [01:26:00] will continue to evolve as a musician and she will play age appropriate music. If she’s still still putting out albums at the age of 60, she will put out an album that makes sense to the people who have been lifetime fans of hers in a way that expresses.

[01:26:17] A growth and an understanding that one is not a teenage pop star forever much. Like she already has, like, this is I, this, I, I make this prediction because we’re already seeing it happen. Um, I don’t think she’d go away entirely, but I think she would disappear for five, six years at a time and then make a, make a splash on the scene by doing something, um, age appropriate.

[01:26:44] That’s that’s my prediction for the classy Taylor Swift.

[01:26:47] 01Christina: [01:26:47] Yeah. I think you’re probably right. I think, and you’re right. We’re already kind of seeing that, but I think you’re probably right. Although it is interesting to think about like, Because we haven’t ever seen, we haven’t seen this yet with like the, with female, um, like pop stars, like especially young [01:27:00] ones, like Madonna, um, when she plays, like she does still play stuff from like some of her earlier stuff, but like, she never wrote like a confessional, like teenage music, you know, she was in her twenties when she started.

[01:27:11] So it’s different. Like, you know, uh, it would be interesting to see like what happens when. Like would Brittany Spears assuming she ever reforms again? Like, would she still be doing like the bubble gum pop stuff in her forties and

[01:27:24] 02Brett: [01:27:24] would anyone take her seriously if she wasn’t though,

[01:27:27] 01Christina: [01:27:27] Well, right. I mean, but nobody’s takes her seriously anyway, but like you go to Brittany Spears cause you want to see baby one more time.

[01:27:32] You want to see toxic. You want to, you know what I mean? Like she’s,

[01:27:34] 02Brett: [01:27:34] And a 60 year old woman and a school girl skirt singing baby. One more time is not going to fly.

[01:27:41] 01Christina: [01:27:41] Yeah. I mean, although here’s the interesting thing, a six year old woman, you’re exactly right. It wouldn’t, but what’s weird is that like the boy band still get so many people going to their shows and their concerts and their residencies. Yeah. Like it’s nuts. I mean, they’re all older, obviously, right? Like nobody, you know, [01:28:00] I mean clearly like young people are not going to go see the Backstreet boys, but the Backstreet boys do incredibly well with, and it’s been good for them.

[01:28:08] Cause their fan base is now like in their thirties and, and, uh, Has money and like, you know, can, can spend money on stupid stuff. Like seeing, you know, some guys who were like edging on 50, like still singing bubblegum pop songs from like 25 years ago. And you’re like, dude, so it’s weird. Like that, that’s a weird, that’s what we were gendered thing.

[01:28:30] 02Brett: [01:28:30] that is a weird double standard dish kind of, um, I bet Brittany Spears hates that about them.

[01:28:37] 01Christina: [01:28:37] Yeah. I mean, I. I would too, but also, I mean, you know, I don’t want to get into the whole, like things that are going on with Brittany. Cause it, all of it bothers me. But, um, I think that I don’t, I don’t know how much she cares. I think she just is like happy to be with her super hot young boyfriend and to dance around and you know, just live in whatever weird bubble she lives in which [01:29:00] like good for you, Brittany.

[01:29:00] Like. I really do hope that she does, you know, decides that she wants to return to performing again. Cause I wasn’t able to see her in her Vegas residency and it really upset me that I didn’t have that opportunity. And I’ve seen her live before and she’s not a good live performer. Like she, like, she doesn’t sing.

[01:29:16] She lip syncs, which is good for everyone cause she can’t sing. And you know, the dancing is, you know, I saw her like at peak Brittany and it was okay, but I will be honest. I saw Madonna the same year and Madonna was better like legitimately the Madonna show that year was. Madonna was a better dancer, a better performer, a better singer, like better production.

[01:29:34] Like the whole thing was better. Madonna, you know, it’s, you know, um, more than 20 years older than her. So, um, that like is, uh, interesting, but, um, I still like wanted to see like the Brittany comeback, you know, kind of tour thing. So I would still like to have that experience, but I will say also it will be weirder.

[01:29:56] You know what I mean? Like, I can’t imagine seeing a 50 year old Brittany Spears, like. [01:30:00] Like you said like six or six year old, like in the, in the, you know, um, you know, school uniform, like dancing around, like, that’s just, I don’t know. Although at that time I’ll be like, you know, 60 year olds, six years old too.

[01:30:14] So I don’t know.

[01:30:16]02Brett: [01:30:16] Alright. That was a fun episode. Even with a reboot in the middle of it.

[01:30:22] 01Christina: [01:30:22] I know, I know, uh, it was good stuff. All right. So your, your homework is missing Marikana in addition to K Flay, what homework do I have?

[01:30:29]02Brett: [01:30:29] Watch some more news.

[01:30:31] 01Christina: [01:30:31] Okay. I will watch some more news. Alright, excellent.

[01:30:33] 02Brett: [01:30:33] The problem that he has some that are like clip shows that are, uh, 10 to 20 minutes long, long, but his really good stuff is 28 and, and an hour and eight minutes. Um, so it, it takes some time investment, but you can get a feel and, and you can catch up with his latest stuff, uh, by catching some of the clip shows.

[01:30:55] 01Christina: [01:30:55] Okay. That’s

[01:30:56] 02Brett: [01:30:56] I’ll, I’ll, I’ll link a

[01:30:57] 01Christina: [01:30:57] Okay. Link a couple. And um, [01:31:00] and also I will, I will listen to some more, uh, Kay. Flay and, uh, excellent. Alright, Brett,

[01:31:06] 02Brett: [01:31:06] Yeah, get some sleep, Christina.

[01:31:08] 01Christina: [01:31:08] some sleep, Brett.