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The Mental Health Corner Episode
[00:00:00] Jeff: Hi, everybody. I’m home. Uh, this is the Overtired podcast and I am Jeff Severns Guntzel and I’m here with my co hosts, Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra. Um, and I haven’t been here with either of you in a long time. And by here, I mean a virtual room where I can see you, but the listeners can’t. Hi.
[00:00:22] Brett: Hi, welcome back.
[00:00:24] Jeff: Thank you. I didn’t,
[00:00:26] Jeff goes to Kenya!
[00:00:26] Brett: So tell us where you’ve been. Tell us what’s been going on.
[00:00:30] Jeff: Um, Yeah, I just, I’m back. I’m a week now back from a really incredible family vacation. Um, and we went to, uh, we went to Kenya. Um, initially like a, we went to Kenya, um, first of all, to stay with my friend Wanja and her partner, Mel, who have a farm in, um, just outside of Nairobi.
[00:00:51] Jeff: Um, like an amazing farm. Like you walk out of their house and not only are you met by four of the best dogs in the world who it turns out keep the monkeys [00:01:00] away, okay. But also if you walk at just past their two offices made out of shipping containers, which are also amazing, you’re in an area like, uh, like basically a farm that has like banana trees and they grow mangoes and avocado and, um, like everything you can imagine, including in, in her case, she’s trying to bring back a certain type of banana that’s gone, um, like almost missing in Kenya.
[00:01:22] Jeff: Um, and, and so, uh, yeah, so we went to Kenya, um, stayed with my. My two friends who are just amazing people. I met them. I met one doing, um, other work in the past and her partner Mel does this amazing work with this, um, feminist, um, action group in East Africa mostly. Um, and so it was just like, It was just great to be in a completely new place.
[00:01:48] Jeff: I’ve never been to the continent of Africa. Um, and I recognized that I was only in a little piece of it. There’s an understandable sensitivity of people coming and being like, I’m in Africa, [00:02:00] um, when in fact you’re in one little part of Africa. Um, and, and so, yeah, we went, then we went to like a national park, um, where should I just talk about the trip?
[00:02:10] Jeff: Is that okay? I’m not just giving an overview.
[00:02:12] Christina: Yeah, I want to know all about
[00:02:13] Jeff: So we went to a national park. Um, West National Park and, and there was a, like a resort there. Um, and we didn’t really know much about the resort. We especially did not know that like, okay, so you walk in, uh, to the entrance, but the entrance is actually like this, this large, um, massive, like.
[00:02:33] Jeff: Ballroom type entryway. And on the other end of it is just the same size hole looking out over, um, over the national park. And, and like, so we just kind of wander up to the edge of that where there’s like a dining area and stuff and it’s all wide open. There’s no screens or windows or anything. And there’s like a watering hole that is a natural watering hole, but of course, uh, kept, um, alive through all the various seasons for the sake of tourism.
[00:02:58] Jeff: But it’s, it’s, [00:03:00] we, we like, we walk up to it and. It’s like 50 yards away or less, this watering hole, and it’s completely, um, filled with, or surrounded by, let’s see, giraffe, ostriches, warthogs, God bless them, baboons, God bless them, uh, zebras, um, like everything but like hippos, rhinos, and, and lions. And, and they were all so real and huge and graceful, graceful, except for when you ever seen a giraffe try to drink?
[00:03:36] Jeff: It’s very awkward, but
[00:03:38] Brett: actually, it’s actually physical, physically very impressive that they even can
[00:03:43] Jeff: that they even can they get they like spread their legs really awkwardly and the knees look like they’re gonna buckle.
[00:03:48] Brett: that their heads don’t explode when they lower their
[00:03:50] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. It takes a long time for the blood to
[00:03:53] Brett: Evolution at well, evolutionarily giraffes are very impressive. Like it’s very [00:04:00] impressive.
[00:04:00] Jeff: And so like, I, you know, last year we were supposed to go on this Kenya trip, but I got COVID. And so we ended up driving like a total improvised trip out to Yellowstone, which by some grace of God was empty because up until a week before it had been flooded and nobody knew it was open. And we went to the sort of Grand Canyon of Yellowstone.
[00:04:19] Jeff: And I remember I stopped at the edge and I could not believe what I was looking at. Like I, my brain just couldn’t fully take it in. And that’s what happened here. Like, I was like, I was just staring at him like that’s. That’s real. And it’s not like we were in some like fenced in special tourist area.
[00:04:32] Jeff: Like we were in like a gigantic national park, right? Like the size of a couple of states in the US. And, and that knowledge was like, I need David Attenborough to call me to calm me down to give me context to tell me what’s happening here. So we stayed, stayed there for a few days after the farm. And then we went to Mombasa to the ocean.
[00:04:55] Jeff: And, um, and that was, I mean, it was just like, It was a great trip. [00:05:00] And for me, um, it couldn’t have come at a better time. Uh, and it was just a wonderful time to be challenged a little bit, to be in a place that I didn’t know at all. And I didn’t exactly forget how much I loved that, but I had lost touch a little bit with how much I love having to sort of improvise in a place where.
[00:05:19] Jeff: I’m not familiar, but also like being conscious of trying to improvise in a way that isn’t like taking up too much space or just being whatever. When I’m in Europe, I’m very comfortable being an ugly American. I feel like that’s part of my role. I feel like that’s our, you know, we are just, we’re locked in that relationship forever.
[00:05:35] Jeff: I’m totally okay with it. Um, but when I go anywhere else, I’m like, I try to be. boisterous enough to be at least, like, break down some tension with some kind of charm, but not be, uh, a big, giant asshole. Um, but anyway, so that was that trip. It was with my family. I have two teenage boys, one of whom is going into his senior year of high school, so, you know, we won’t have too many more of, like, [00:06:00] these types of trips where, like, we all leave from home, the same house, and come back to home, the same house.
[00:06:07] Jeff: It happens that our family gets along wonderfully. Um, as long as I’m not having a met adjustment, this is another topic, which will did not happen on this trip. Um, sorry, no topic just came up. Um, but it was like my boys by some. Lottery have never fought. Um, they’re two years apart and I can’t remember a single fight except like when, when my youngest was very young, he, he had this amazing fight move, even when they weren’t fighting, where he would go up to my oldest, who’s always been very tall and just grab him by the legs below the shins until he fell like total, like at, at Walker, like battle style.
[00:06:44] Jeff: But anyway, like they get along great. They’re just chit chatting the whole time. So it’s just super nice. And, um. What was a little piece of this that was amazing, and I still can’t believe it was just a little slice, was… On our way there, um, we stopped in Egypt, a [00:07:00] dear, dear friend in Egypt, who I haven’t seen in a few years, but we’ve spent six weeks traveling together in three different countries over time.
[00:07:08] Jeff: Um, and so we, we made it a 25 hour layover in Cairo. We saw the pyramids in the morning and went to his house for an Eid meal in the afternoon. Um, He taught my youngest, my youngest is super interested in how you roll cigarettes. Um, he watches a lot of old Westerns and stuff. And so when my friend Ahmed started rolling his cigarette, I was like, Oh man, Anthony’s definitely interested.
[00:07:34] Jeff: And he’s like, come on over. And so he not only teaches Anthony how to roll a cigarette, but teaches them the fine distinctions between rolling a cigarette and rolling a joint. And I have this amazing picture of the two of them, and it was just such a kick, it was a blast. And seeing the pyramids was insane, it was like, it was awful, because it’s just one of those dynamics where like, there’s a lot of people coming up to you and trying to sell you things or whatever else, and I’m like, not, I’m not down on those people at all, it’s just that [00:08:00] dynamic sucks, and I’m definitely on the good end of it.
[00:08:04] Jeff: But like, standing at the base of the pyramids was pretty wild, like, it is, turns out it’s pretty cool. It’s pretty cool. Um. And so, yeah, it was just like this amazing trip. The piece that I haven’t talked about is my wife is an incredible miles hacker, like credit card miles hacker, like incredible, which meant that all of our flights were free.
[00:08:23] Jeff: We’d have never been able to afford this. Not only were they free, but two nine hour legs were fricking business class.
[00:08:30] Christina: Oh my God.
[00:08:32] Jeff: And which I’ve never flown and, and again, I want to just emphasize the listeners. We could not even have afforded to do this and coach had it not been for this thing. And so have you flown ever business
[00:08:44] Brett: Oh,
[00:08:45] Jeff: Okay. I have not like in the pods and whatnot. Um, so I have
[00:08:49] Christina: I’ve done this. I’ve done the Singapore suites, which was actually first class, uh, international first class, but that was only once. And that was with credit card miles. Sorry.
[00:08:57] Jeff: Awesome. Yeah. This is like the, totally like the lay [00:09:00] flat pods, although it turns out me and my oldest are too tall to actually lay flat. It ends
[00:09:04] Christina: still amazing.
[00:09:06] Jeff: Yeah, it’s still amazing. So um, that was so funny for me because I spent most of that time being like, these motherfuckers have had this all, like this bathroom that I can not only stand in, but walk a circle in and when I sit down, I’m looking out a window dedicated to like pooping and peeing.
[00:09:25] Christina: No, exactly. Exactly. No, once you experience it and you realize that there’s been this whole other like class available, like at this point, I will not go international unless I’m flying business class. Um, I will not do it. And, and I used to always like work always covered it. But, um, They’ve cut budgets significantly.
[00:09:43] Christina: So I have to either upgrade myself or, you know, pay or whatnot, or, or just have it. And, but I haven’t gone on an international trip, um, in, in a year at this point, but like I did premium economy, um, to Copenhagen last year. And on the way back, I upgraded myself. I was like, I am not [00:10:00] doing like, it was like a, it was like a 12 hour flight.
[00:10:02] Christina: I was like, ah,
[00:10:04] Jeff: Yeah.
[00:10:05] Christina: it’s full business class or nothing, not doing it.
[00:10:08] Brett: that’s, that’s what terrified me when they were when they were planning to send me to Spain. It’s what like a 1313 16 hour flight. I don’t remember.
[00:10:17] Christina: No, I mean, for you it’d be like, it’d be like, uh, because for me it’s ten, so for you it’d be like eight.
[00:10:24] Brett: No, I don’t think that’s true. I’ll take your word for it. Either way, like I get, I get freaked out in even with even like an exit row and coach. I get freaked out after about two hours. I just I go, I go insane. I can’t handle it. And the cost to upgrade this.
[00:10:46] Christina: but there’s, but, but, but, but that is with one stop.
[00:10:49] Brett: And the cost, the cost to upgrade The, cause they would buy me a coach ticket and to upgrade it would have been like 1500 bucks.
[00:10:56] Brett: And I just wasn’t sure, for one leg, I [00:11:00] just, I, I, I, I decided to bite the bullet. Then they canceled my trip and it was a moot point. But, um, yeah, like flying coach for nine to 12 hours seems insane to
[00:11:13] Jeff: in the, go ahead, Christina.
[00:11:16] Christina: I was going to say, and I’ve done it. I’ve done it. And it is,
[00:11:18] Jeff: Well, and in the middle of this, so our flight, our, our journey home from Mombasa was five flights over 46 hours. Um, and in the middle of that was a nine hour coach flight. And it wasn’t just that all of a sudden I was crunched and I had been to the promised land. Um, it was that, like, the poor, like, entire row of kids next to me were coughing,
[00:11:42] Christina: Oh yeah.
[00:11:43] Jeff: nine hours, and I’m like, oh, that’s it, I’m dead.
[00:11:45] Jeff: But also, the funny thing is how swi how quickly my sort of class allegiances can change. So, like, I I did notice, like, I’m like, my first time in business class, I’m like, oh, this is why nobody looks me in the eye when I’m walking through to coach. And, like, and then when I was [00:12:00] going to coach, I was like, look me in the eye. And, like,
[00:12:03] Christina: one of you.
[00:12:04] Jeff: Yeah, so like the only okay, so two other things about this one, I had an amazing the one thing I didn’t realize about business classes, how many people are doing it for the first time, whenever you’re there, which gives it kind of a fun feel. And so I sat down in my like, pod, and the dude in the pod next to me must have been about like, Yeah, mid seventies.
[00:12:22] Jeff: And he’s drinking a whiskey, um, instead of the champagne that they give you right away. Right? He just went straight for the whiskey. He’s gruff. He’s got a beard and all of the stuff they give you is stacked in his lap. And, and as I’m putting my, my stuff away and kind of trying to figure this out myself, I mean, what the hell is all this?
[00:12:36] Jeff: And he goes, you ever flown first class before? And I was like, no, he’s like, yeah, What do I do with all this shit? And like, as I settled in, I’m like, I don’t know, because by the time I settled in, it looked like how I live at home. It was just shit everywhere. And like, I dropped something behind the seat or whatever, but I want to say one last thing about the business class experience, which is not strictly business class, but mostly I had [00:13:00] never been in an airport lounge and
[00:13:02] Christina: was the best experience.
[00:13:03] Jeff: I what this here’s what pisses me off about it and almost nothing pisses me off about it.
[00:13:08] Jeff: But the one thing that pisses me off about it. It’s like, okay, so when I’m flying in coach, I’m walking around the airport paying shit tons of money for stupid, terrible food. And all along, these people were in here with outlets, showers, and a buffet that included free gummy bears. Like, I was like,
[00:13:27] Christina: Now, now I will say, uh, it is very easy for anybody, regardless of what, um, class you’re flying to get into an airport lounge,
[00:13:35] Jeff: Yes.
[00:13:36] Christina: the airport lounges are now very crowded. So,
[00:13:39] Brett: 70, 70, 70 bucks, I think is what it cost me. When I was flying coach, I got into the Delta lounge.
[00:13:45] Christina: well, yeah, but you can’t buy, because they’re so crowded now because of credit cards, you can’t buy a day pass anymore. Lounge is unless it’s prior to past lounge, however, and this is the thing and this is what all will I will give to listeners out there? There are few credit cards that you can get if you’re a credit [00:14:00] card person that if you travel even a moderate amount are worth it The the big one.
[00:14:05] Christina: Yes, I was going to say is the American Express platinum card that card if you’re a Delta flyer Especially Is an amazing value. All right. I will be honest. The annual fee is either six or 700. However, you get a Delta, um, SkyClub with it, which is more than the cost of the annual fee. If you buy the individual membership, you also get access to all of the American Express Centurion lounges.
[00:14:29] Christina: You also get access to the entire priority pass network and the Delta SkyClub thing also means that you have lounges to all the Air France and KLM and. And other things. So, plus you get free, um, uh, clear plus, which is the clear that also gets you through TSA pre check and you get a TSA pre check, um, global entry things.
[00:14:48] Christina: All that is like comped. So. The annual fee is high, but it’s worth
[00:14:53] Brett: If you’re traveling, it’s
[00:14:55] Christina: if you travel more than I’d say five times a year and you have like a lounge, [00:15:00] especially if you’re Delta flyer. It’s worth it. The alternate card is also high. Annual fee is the chase Sapphire reserve. That also gives you priority pass and it gives you a certain amount of like, uh, you get a couple hundred dollars like actual money, um, airline credit each year and other stuff.
[00:15:15] Christina: So if you travel a lot and you want to do the lounge system, the, the Sapphire reserve is, is second best for lounges. But the. best one is the American Express Platinum.
[00:15:25] Jeff: Go ahead.
[00:15:26] Brett: I will say that the lounges change an airport entirely once you discover the lounge. Like the San Francisco airport, it’s, it’s generally pretty nice, but it’s so boring if you’re there for more than an
[00:15:39] Christina: Yeah. No, I, I,
[00:15:41] Brett: the lounge changes everything.
[00:15:43] Christina: I call it my happy place. Like I still check in, um, on, um, on, on swarm, which used to be four square. And I literally call it the lounge, my happy place because it is one of those things like, and, and it’s also great, especially if you have like TSA pre check or clear and whatnot, like. I’ll have, I’ll, I’ll, I usually get to the airport [00:16:00] late.
[00:16:00] Christina: Um, and, and I’ll, I might have, you know, 45 minutes before my, my, my plane, you know, is boarding or sometimes even half an hour, and I’m just like, no, I’m gonna go to the lounge. I’m going to get a drink and, and, and maybe grab a snack, maybe grab some chips or something. I’m gonna go to the bathroom, you know, if I have longer than that, like if I need to do a meeting, if I need to do something like it’s.
[00:16:19] Christina: It’s now, not all airport lounges are great. It depends on the airport you’re in, depends on other stuff. But like, um, Chicago, uh, uh, has, um, uh, you know, good airports and probably has good lounge situation. Minneapolis where you are, Brett, like that amazing lounge, um, stuff. Delta
[00:16:36] Brett: launch in Minneapolis is awesome.
[00:16:38] Christina: The Delta lounge in Seattle is also great.
[00:16:41] Christina: Uh, because, uh, it’s, um, uh, we’re a hub. So it was Minneapolis. So, um. Yeah,
[00:16:47] Jeff: And, and I will say that on the 46 hour, five flight journey home at about. Our 26th, we were in a really nice lounge, I think we were [00:17:00] in Frankfurt, and I took a shower,
[00:17:02] Christina: that’s the best thing,
[00:17:04] Jeff: and I, I thought, why would I ever want to take a shower, but Laurel, like, my wife did it, and then she sent a picture of it, she’s like, this is amazing, and I was like, okay, I’ll try it, and it was like, uh, the flow from the ceiling,
[00:17:16] Christina: Yeah, and it like changes everything like what you can also do is a great thing to do You did it perfectly because you were like in between legs But what I’ve done is I’ve either gone to the airport and like been about to leave and like taking a shower But my favorite thing to do is either what you did like in between a layover or a shower on arrival Like, if I take a red eye, I’ll go to the lounge, and like, I’m, I’m, and then before I go, like, I’ll go to the lounge before I even get my bags or whatever, um, if I’ve checked a bag, and I’ll take a shower, and then, like, I will have, like, a change of clothes with me, and then I will, like, be able to go to my hotel and just be like, Ah,
[00:17:52] Jeff: Yeah. Awesome. Two. Okay. Two things to close this out. One, putting compression socks back on after a shower is a drag. Um, and I’m old. [00:18:00] Two, the Amex Platinum card, if you live in a snowy region, is an amazing ice scraper, which is how I lost mine. Cause it’s metal.
[00:18:09] Christina: it is metal, it’s great. You can also get it in rose gold, um,
[00:18:12] Jeff: That’s right. That’s right.
[00:18:13] Christina: sorry, that’s the gold one, no, the platinum is just platinum, but, uh, yeah, but they do have, because I both have the platinum and I have the rose gold gold card, but yeah. Platinum heart is, is metal. It’s great.
[00:18:21] Brett: All right.
[00:18:22] Jeff: That was great.
[00:18:23] Brett: Thank you for sharing Jeff. That sounds like an amazing experience. I’m actually very jealous. I have not traveled for so long now.
[00:18:32] Christina: I love that your kids and your whole family have that experience. Like that to me, what you were saying about like, you know, it’s the last like big family, you know, one of the last big like family trips like this, where you’re all, we coming back to the same house, like they’ll, and what’s great is everybody’s old enough to remember it like this.
[00:18:45] Christina: It’s going to be one of those things that everybody was old enough to remember it and enjoy it and, and be together. And that’s, that’s fantastic.
[00:18:52] Jeff: Totally.
[00:18:53] Brett: very
[00:18:54] Jeff: I’ll submit a photo for show art.
[00:18:56] Brett: Yes, please do. Um, all right. So how do [00:19:00] you guys feel about a little mental health corner?
[00:19:03] Jeff: I’m already in that corner.
[00:19:04] Brett: I have some shit to talk about, but I can go last.
[00:19:10] Jeff: Christina.
[00:19:10] Brett: Yeah. Christina go.
[00:19:12] Mental Health Corner
[00:19:12] Christina: All right. I have some shit to talk about too. All right. So, um, I’m doing pretty well right now. I’ve just started a new antidepressant called Ovelity, A U V E L I T Y, and it is, it’s only been on the market for just under a year. The data that my psychiatrist told me about, because he follows all this stuff, is very similar to S ketamine, which, um, is, um, you know, the, the, the, um, nasal infusions, um, that it’s the only way that, that ketamine is approved.
[00:19:43] Christina: It’s not, it’s some similar like formulation, but it’s not the same thing. Um, but the, it’s like part of it as well, we’ve turned it and there’s some other compound that they’ve combined it with, but the results are very, very good. Um, in, in all, in all the studies, like the, they’re, they’re off the [00:20:00] charts.
[00:20:00] Christina: I’ve only been on it. I think I’m on like day four or day five. Um, and I’ve. Um, I’m already noticing a, a market improvement, which is good because I’d been pretty depressed and I’d been in a pretty depressed state for a while. Um, add to that, um, Um, the last week, uh, plus has been really, really difficult.
[00:20:19] Christina: Um, a friend of mine and a guy that I worked with closely for five years, um, died unexpectedly, um, at, uh, at age 37. And, um, that’s, it’s been incredibly, incredibly difficult to, um, to navigate that. And, um, I’m, um, yeah, so like last week was really, really rough. Um, but, um. We were, we were talking pre show about how sometimes you can take a medication, it can impact you and you don’t even, you’re not even aware of it.
[00:20:56] Christina: Like I, either you have like a bad reaction or you have a good reaction. And [00:21:00] honestly it was one of those things I think like took me like two days because I typically, however my body is wired, I react to, to med changes very fast, like very fast. Like I will usually get a side effect almost immediately or like it’ll kick in or it’ll, it’ll work or it won’t.
[00:21:17] Christina: Um, I will also say that things have a tendency to not work forever. So I’m going to have to like, keep, keep a watch on that. But, um, uh, this was one where honestly, like, and I don’t think it’s placebo because again, I was already depressed and then adding grief on top of that. Um, and, and I’m like feeling like.
[00:21:38] Christina: Immeasurably immeasurably bit better. Like, I’m still obviously, um, working through the, the grief of, of losing my friend. Um, and, and the circumstances and the whole, everything that was kind of involved in that. And I have some guilt that’s involved for, for myself involved in that too. That, that I’m, that I’m not gonna dive into.
[00:21:56] Christina: Um, but, um, I’m [00:22:00] feeling so much better than I was a week ago when I literally couldn’t get out of bed and was just from a combination of just everything. So, so that, that’s it.
[00:22:11] Jeff: helping. And I’m sorry about your friend. And I, without you going into it, like you said, like that, there are so many ways to have guilt when someone dies. It’s like. It’s terrible.
[00:22:24] Brett: Yeah. So it’s a, uh, Ability is a combination of dextromorphophan and, and bupriapine, which is Welbutrin, as you said. Um, but I can’t find the information on its titration period. It sounds like you have really quick titrations, like you adjust to medications faster than average. Um, I know Welbutrin usually has a 30 day titration period.
[00:22:52] Brett: Yeah.
[00:22:52] Christina: I think so. And I remember, and I remember when I took well, we turned and obviously this 20 years ago. I remember that kicking in relatively [00:23:00] quickly,
[00:23:00] Brett: Yeah, I mean, it’s entirely possible. I’m not, I’m not
[00:23:03] Christina: Yeah, no, no, no, totally. Well, no, but I mean, there have been things, I mean, again, like, I will, like, I remember the first time, I don’t remember what it was.
[00:23:09] Christina: It was Prozac or Paxil, one of them. I remember taking it and then like, oh, I don’t remember what it was now, but there was one drug that I took that immediately gave me migraines.
[00:23:17] Jeff: Mm.
[00:23:18] Christina: first migraine I’ve ever, I’d ever had, like, could not open my eyes. Um, migraines. Um, now that’s a side effect, but yeah, for me typically, like, and again, I’m not feeling like a hundred percent, but, um, there’s been like a market improvement and
[00:23:33] Brett: really hopeful.
[00:23:34] Christina: yeah, like, like, like I would like, like my, like my bedroom has just been kind of a complete disaster.
[00:23:39] Christina: And like, I did a lot of work on cleaning it last night with like very little.
[00:23:43] Jeff: Always a good sign.
[00:23:44] Christina: No, it really is because and, and, and, and I went to two movies yesterday and, and I’m, you know, like I, I was worried because I’ve got this big thing that I’m doing today. I’m going to Taylor Swift with a friend of mine who’s had the worst year that anybody could have.
[00:23:59] Christina: And [00:24:00] um, she, um, she lost her husband unexpectedly while they were on a family vacation. And Turks and Caicos, um, with, uh, two kids under five, um, uh, you know, he like dropped out of a heart attack at age 39 and she’s genuinely the nicest, kindest, sweetest person I’ve ever met. And, you know, I was like worried that I was going to have to like, almost like fake it to sort of rally, you know, to be there for her because I’m, I’m, she’s flying in, but like, I, I, I’ve got us a hotel room and, and I, I gave her my, my extra ticket, um, because I wanted to do something for her and, you know, I was really worried that I was like going to have to, Uh, you know, like really have to like fake excitement and, and whatnot.
[00:24:45] Christina: And, and I’m certainly not feeling the same euphoria that I was feeling when I was in New York two months ago, but, um, like, cause my mental health was better then, but I’m definitely like feeling like I can be in a place where I can actually be in that moment and not be like [00:25:00] besotted by the grief of my friend and guilt over that and the depression and all that stuff.
[00:25:04] Christina: Like, I’m actually feeling like I can go in and I can enjoy myself.
[00:25:07] Jeff: Yeah. Oh,
[00:25:08] Brett: I like house cleaning as a measure of wellness.
[00:25:13] Jeff: it’s huge in my life.
[00:25:15] Brett: and, and it’s, it’s, it has this compound effect where like cleaning the house indicates that you are in a better place to begin with, but then having a clean house puts you in an even better place. Um, so it’s kind of, it’s kind of like crawling your way out
[00:25:32] Christina: it really is. It really is. It’s one of those things where it’s it’s like it’s it’s um kind of like how you have to, I think, treat agoraphobia and and things like that, which is that you go, you have to go against the grain, which is like you have to actually get out and do things and do the hard thing and then you feel better the more you do it.
[00:25:52] Christina: Um, but, but I, cause, you know, like, yeah, I think that, that you’re right. It’s a really, really good barometer for [00:26:00] health because like, you feel better when your house is cleaner, but there can be those points when, like Grant and I, we say that like, you can tell like how we’re feeling based on like, kind of like the cloneliness or lack thereof.
[00:26:10] Christina: And like bedroom is just like a disaster. Um, because I was just in a really, really bad place and had been for a really long time. And then having to still fake it, you know, uh, for work as much as I could until that was even breaking down. And so I’m, I’m hopeful, you know, like I’m, I’m not like feeling like this is necessarily going to be a complete win, but, um, the, the hopeful thing, and then, then they’ll shut up.
[00:26:34] Christina: Cause I know that you have a lot to say, uh, Brett and I know you
[00:26:36] Brett: no, please go ahead.
[00:26:38] Christina: but, um, is, um, in addition to going on this new medication, I’m also coming off of a I’ve been on and off of for a really long time effects are, um, I was on the lowest dose, 37 and a half milligrams. The reason I’ve still been on that, even though it’s a very low dose, um, in addition to this other pill that I’ve taken is because, um, frontalics is [00:27:00] because The side effects like the withdrawal is so severe and I’ve gone through that withdrawal before and it’s awful and so I’ve been trying to withdraw from it while I’m the ability.
[00:27:11] Christina: So what I’m doing is I’m literally I’m like taking a capsule I’m I’m opening it up. I’m putting half of it in my hand, you know I have little pellets in my hand taking those and then you know Putting the capsule back together and then taking the the capsule the next day. I could You know, like order my doctor was like, Oh, you could get, you know, capsules off of Amazon or whatever.
[00:27:32] Christina: I’m like, Dr. Wah. I was wonderful for you to think that I will do that. I was like, and, and that might even be a fun project for my husband. He might even enjoy playing pharmacist. I was like, however, I can tell you right now, I’m not going to do that. I’m going to eyeball it and get close enough. You know, I was like,
[00:27:52] Jeff: You’re not gonna borrow your friend’s drug scale?
[00:27:54] Christina: no,
[00:27:54] Jeff: I’m not saying your friends have drug scales,
[00:27:57] Christina: I mean, I do have
[00:27:57] Jeff: probably don’t have to reach too far.
[00:27:59] Christina: Oh, [00:28:00] not at all.
[00:28:01] Jeff: You know anybody in the restaurant industry? Boom.
[00:28:04] Christina: all. Or the software industry. You know?
[00:28:06] Jeff: Or the software industry. That’s true.
[00:28:08] Brett: I have a, I have, I, I have a milligram scale. It’s actually very good.
[00:28:13] Christina: Um, And we might even have one. I don’t even know. Grant might have one for… Honestly, Grant probably has one.
[00:28:19] Jeff: but the point is that’s not how you’re doing this.
[00:28:21] Christina: Fuck no. Absolutely not. That, that, that, that’s a level of effort and precision. Um, so anyway, again, like just to finish out, like why this is hopeful is that I’m, you know, trying to, um, get myself off of this thing that I’ve been on for many, many, many, many years while trying a new thing as well.
[00:28:39] Christina: And I was. And this was before the death, I was like, oh shit, this is going to be a really difficult time to have this concert and have this weekend and have all this stuff, um, but um, but I’m doing okay. So that’s, I’m, I’m really hopeful about that.
[00:28:55] Jeff: So as long as Taylor Swift is on this world bending tour, are you just going to be occasionally going?[00:29:00]
[00:29:00] Christina: Yes. I mean, honestly, I would love to go to some of the international shows if I can. Well, if I could reliably get tickets, like the Asia legs, there’s no way in hell I would, I would try that. I wouldn’t do South America, but I would, I would go to Australia. I would go to Europe. And the only reason I wouldn’t go try for the Asian legs, Singapore would be amazing, but I think they are going to be impossible to like buy, um, regularly.
[00:29:22] Christina: And then the other things I’m just like, the, the insanity in those countries around her. I’m just like, I don’t know.
[00:29:33] Jeff: Be something to see.
[00:29:34] Christina: I would, but I’m also like, I like, like, like South, like, I’m just trying to imagine like what it’ll be like when she’s in Brazil because I’ve been to Brazil, um, a few
[00:29:41] Jeff: everything insane when somebody comes
[00:29:43] Christina: Yes. Yes. And, and that’s the thing.
[00:29:45] Christina: And, and I’ve spent like, I feel like I know Brazil because I’ve spent like, Uh, total time of like a month there and, and, and I’ve been in a bunch of different cities and so I don’t really know it. I only know parts of it, but like everything I’ve seen, like, I’m like, I, I’m like, [00:30:00] Oh my God, that is going to be.
[00:30:02] Christina: Absolute insanity because there are people who are like, Oh, the tickets are cheaper. I could just go to Brazil and said, I’m like, Oh, wow. A prepare yourself for one of those flights that, that, that, um, you know, you were on, uh, Jeff, you know, getting there, like it’s not 46 hours, but it’s 27. Um, and, uh, and, and B, um, I just, I feel like, I feel like I’d be worried genuinely about like the size of the crowds and the other stuff like in, and I’m not even being hyperbolic here.
[00:30:31] Christina: I’m like, And I’m not scared by crowds and I’m like, I feel like this would be like a World Cup sort of situation and I’m not really sure if I want to be a part of that, but I would go see her in Paris or in, in England. I would love to see her in Paris.
[00:30:45] Brett: That would be fun.
[00:30:47] Jeff: yeah.
[00:30:47] Christina: I’m done now.
[00:30:49] Brett: I will say on the house cleaning thing, um, my, we, we have house cleaners come about once a month and, um, our, the, it’s [00:31:00] a couple that cleans our house and, uh, the woman in the couple, it’s a heterosexual couple. The woman, um, is big into like energy and astrology and stuff. And she. After Yeti died, she advised me that cleaning the spaces where Yeti was, was important to my grieving process.
[00:31:26] Brett: And one of those spaces was my bedroom, which I always ask them to leave alone. Like, well, like clean the whole house, but my bedroom is kind of my like safe space and it’s, um, it’s a mess. Like, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t want anyone touching it, but this time I like, uh, I, I, I, I put a bunch of shit on the bed, um, just to get it out of the way.
[00:31:50] Brett: But I did clean up the room enough for them to come in and do like a deep clean on the floors and surfaces. And actually she was right. It [00:32:00] actually was really good for. For my mental health and for my grieving process. And yeah, it was, it was, it was nice.
[00:32:09] Christina: That’s great.
[00:32:10] Jeff: That’s great. Yeti.
[00:32:13] Brett: Jeff, how are you doing?
[00:32:16] Jeff: I’m doing good today. Uh, I had a hard time once I was home. It’s weird, like there’s, there was two things happening at once. And, and one is that like something shifted in me about a couple, maybe a month and a half ago, where all of a sudden I was like performing my work at a level that I had wished I always It had been that I knew I could, um, work came easy.
[00:32:40] Jeff: Getting things done came easy. When I raised my hand for something, I didn’t feel like everyone was going, dude, no, Like, you’ve, you’ve raised your hand for everything. And so when I came back home, that feeling continued, but I found myself in my office just feeling like, Really kind of depressed. And I think it was partly probably just that I dove right in after the trip and that [00:33:00] on the trip, I felt so good.
[00:33:01] Jeff: And I don’t know if you have this experience, but when I travel, when I get away from everything, like a lot of what. weighs me down, goes away. And, and I’m a lot lighter and, um, I just feel a lot better internally and, and all that stuff. So I think coming home to my office is like a little rough, even though I love my office.
[00:33:19] Jeff: And speaking of offices getting dirty, there’s actually a point where. I changed my fans and it blew down a painting on my shelf that blew down a little baby lost cause aloe plant that I’ve been trying to like nurse back to life, um, which broke on the floor and I left it there for two days. And finally, my wife came in and she’s like, we have this policy in our house where like, if someone’s like, say you’re like, you’re, you know, you’re trying to make your breakfast and you drop an egg on the floor, like we have a policy, all four of us, the deal is like if that happens, someone, whoever’s closest steps in and cleans it up.
[00:33:52] Jeff: Like it’s not, it’s like not the, the person who’s demoralized, but like someone else steps in cause they’re not mad. They’re not like [00:34:00] frustrated. They’re not like whatever. And so Laurel hadn’t been in my office in a couple of days and she’s like, let me get that for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And actually having her do that and realizing that I had left it there for a couple days, which I’m sure to some people listening is like incomprehensible, um, helped me to just like, okay, I’m actually just going to clean this whole place up.
[00:34:20] Jeff: And, and that was, that was so helpful. So anyway, um, I just, I’m just relating to that thing about cleaning. For me, it’s my office because I have a family of four. And so, and I’m kind of like the homemaker on the main floor. Um, and so I am the one that cleans. And so I feel like if I don’t clean every day, that shit gets crazy because I don’t know what you know about teenage boys, but like, let me just say they make a lot of.
[00:34:44] Jeff: Footprints.
[00:34:45] Christina: gonna, I was gonna say, all I know about them is that, that I feel like they would like, I feel like a lot, a lot of mess, a lot of smells, a lot of, a lot of, uh, stains of unknown origins.
[00:34:56] Jeff: Yeah. And like, honestly, like the crazy [00:35:00] thing is like, this was my wife’s idea, but it worked like four years ago. She’s like, let’s give them both a job at the end of the day. So like after every dinner, one has the job of putting away all the food and the other one does the dishes. And they’ve done that consistently for years, which is insane.
[00:35:14] Jeff: And no, every night it’s the same job for years. But like, even with that. The house gets insane, right? Like, so yes, they are. But, but Christina, to your point about the mess, like they live in the basement. So it’s mostly the basement that feels
[00:35:29] Christina: Oh, that’s, see, oh, and that’s, okay, you guys are so smart, like, you and Laurel are so smart for doing that, like, A, like, lucky to, like, have the basement, and B, like, put, like, the teenage boys, like, or even just, like, like, whatever age they are, like, even, like, preteen, like, like, through, like, young teenage through, like, high school age boys, like, in the basement, that’s perfect.
[00:35:48] Jeff: We wanted them to have that in,
[00:35:49] Christina: No, that’s great for them. I was going to say they have a great, great space for them to grow and kind of enjoy and have their own space. But also like then you don’t have to like walk in on like the [00:36:00] porn watching.
[00:36:00] Jeff: Anything. I don’t know what I’d be. Yeah, I know. I don’t even think about that. Um, yeah, totally. But also, you know, when we finished that basement about two months before COVID. And so otherwise, it was just a nasty raw basement, you know, a little damp, whatever. Anyway, last thing I’ll say is just because we were talking about this before the show.
[00:36:17] Jeff: And Christina, you were talking about med changes. Like, it’s like, I’m at a point where I hate to even admit this, but I haven’t made a it. This isn’t the part I hate to admit, I haven’t made a med change in quite a while, I just did make one and I have been a difficult person for like the three days I’ve been off that medication and it only occurred to like both of us today.
[00:36:38] Jeff: It’s like, wait, hold on. This like kind of terrible three days corresponds with this medication change. And man, I know you both have experiences. I just feel like, how is it possible? That after all this time and all these experiences I’ve had, especially my couple years of trying to land on the right sort of combo after my bipolar diagnosis, like, how is it possible that I wasn’t like, all right, [00:37:00] alert, alert, I’m changing a medication.
[00:37:02] Brett: so weird. I have a real hard time connecting, uh, cause and effect. Uh, like it, it happens to me all the time with like, so you’re having digestion problems. What did you eat two days ago? Like
[00:37:17] Jeff: Yeah,
[00:37:18] Brett: I don’t make those connections and med changes are especially egregious because they’re so obvious.
[00:37:24] Brett: There’s such intentional things and you know exactly what’s happening and then I am. oblivious to how my life changes, how my reactions change, how my emotional state changes. And I don’t connect cause and effect. And it is, it’s frustrating to everyone in my life. It is usually Al who has to remind me, yeah, you just went through this big change recently, because my brain just does not connect them.
[00:37:53] Brett: And it can be very frustrating.
[00:37:54] Jeff: I think the important thing too, that’s so unique about it is [00:38:00] if you have a behavior change, it’s not that you’re being how you were before the medication, it’s that it’s a whole different thing that might have flavors of how you were before, but it’s, it’s a different thing. And, and this is the hardest part, both in real time and to grapple with afterwards, it feels so real.
[00:38:18] Jeff: So if you’re, if you have a short fuse, the thing that you get upset about feels so. Real. And, and that is, that can be a nightmare. Um, and, and it can also like, for me, it’s a, it’s eroded my, my trust in myself, like my own, like kind of ability to say like, no, this is something I ought to be upset about. Um, so anyway, just to anybody else out there who’s had that experience, like it is a completely unique experience that is somehow new every time.
[00:38:47] Jeff: And it’s just what it is.
[00:38:49] Brett: L L talks about with, with their autistic burnout, uh, that, um, she will like go to her room [00:39:00] to like get away from the situation, but convinced that as soon as they calm down, they’re gonna, they’re gonna understand exactly why it was my fault.
[00:39:09] Jeff: Mm. Oh, yeah,
[00:39:10] Brett: whatever I did, as soon as, as soon as I can calm down, this is going to be his fault and I’ll be able to explain that to him.
[00:39:18] Brett: And, uh, in the process of like calm, calming down and like coming back to earth, uh, you can realize, Oh wait, this was me. This was my problem. Um. And I definitely have that happen, but
[00:39:37] Jeff: Yeah. I feel like it would go in my guidebook for anybody, you know, who’s starting to kind of starting with meds that hadn’t had them before. That would be the guidebook. Like you need a, you need a protocol for when you are changing meds that everyone needs to speak it out loud, right? For the next five days.
[00:39:55] Jeff: I need to not trust certain feelings and understand that [00:40:00] that’s okay. It’s not putting them away or denying myself righteous justice or anything else. Anyway, that’s sort of my
[00:40:08] Brett: I’m looking at the time and realizing we need to fit a sponsor in, uh, can we have a sponsor mid mental health
[00:40:16] Christina: We absolutely can.
[00:40:18] Sponsor: Factor
[00:40:18] Brett: All right. I will, I will take this one. Now that it’s summer, you might be looking for wholesome, convenient s for sunny, active days. Factor, America’s number one ready to eat meal kit can help you fuel up fast with flavorful and nutritious ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door.
[00:40:39] Jeff: one already, that was fast.
[00:40:41] Brett: You’ll save time, eat well, and stay on track reaching your goals. Too busy with summer plans to cook but want to make sure you’re eating well? With Factor, skip the trip to the grocery store and skip the chopping, prepping, and cleaning up to while still getting the flavor and nutritional quality you need.
[00:40:58] Brett: Factors fresh, [00:41:00] never frozen meals are ready in just two minutes. So all you have to do is heat and enjoy, and then get back outside to soak up the warm weather. They offer delicious flavor packed options on the menu each week to fit a variety of lifestyles from keto to calorie smart, vegan plus veggie and protein plus prepared dieticians.
[00:41:22] Brett: Each meal has all the ingredients you need to feel satisfied all day long while meeting your goals. And if you’re looking to mix it up. You can add a protein to select vegan and veggie meals. Choose from 34 plus chef prepared dietitian approved weekly options featuring premium ingredients, such as broccolini, leeks, truffle butter, and asparagus.
[00:41:44] Brett: Plus you can round out your meal and replenish your snack supply with an assortment of 45 plus add ons, including breakfast items like their delicious apple cinnamon pancakes, bacon and cheddar egg bites and potato bacon and egg breakfast skillet. Or [00:42:00] For an easy wellness boost, try refreshing beverage options like cold pressed juices, shakes, and smoothies.
[00:42:08] Brett: And with Factor, you can rest assured that you’re making a sustainable choice. They offer 100% of their delivery emissions to your door, source 100% renewable electricity for their production sites and offices, and feature sustainably sourced seafood in their meals. This July get factor and enjoy eating well without the hassle.
[00:42:30] Brett: Simply choose your meals and enjoy fresh flavor packed meals delivered to your door. Ready in just two minutes. No prep, no mess. Head to Factor meals.com/overtired 50 and use code overtired 50 to get 50% off. That’s code Overtired 50. At factor meals. com slash overtired 50 to get 50% off.
[00:42:56] Jeff: Okay, uh, two things, uh, about that sponsor. [00:43:00] Um, one is, that is, it’s really good food. I think, I wish we, I wish we still got free food, but we don’t really deserve it because they, they decided to, to stay a sponsor even after Brett’s, like, union, uh, rant some time ago. Um, uh, which, and at which point when, when, when Danny Glamour, friend of the show, Hey Danny, just moved to Burbank.
[00:43:20] Jeff: Uh, was listening to the show. He texted me and he goes, whenever it goes, that’s sponsor. Um, and I knew exactly what he was talking about. Um, but they’re still here. The food’s still good. Congrats on apparently getting a number one. I don’t know if that’s evidence based, but thanks for hanging out.
[00:43:34] Christina: Yeah. Thanks for hanging out. Thanks for still sponsoring us. Uh, or at least not listening to the whole content of our episodes and just listening to the ad break, which is fine too, regardless. Uh, good product. Uh, thank you.
[00:43:45] Brett: I, I stand by, I stand by my union
[00:43:49] Christina: Uh, I do too. I mean, all three of us are, are, I mean, like, yeah.
[00:43:54] Mental Health Corner (cont.)
[00:43:54] Brett: Okay. So mental health corner continued. I feel like that’s this episode is
[00:43:59] Christina: what this episode [00:44:00] is called. This episode is called Mental Health Corner.
[00:44:02] Brett: Um, So I, uh, I’ll start with this. I fired my therapist.
[00:44:08] Christina: Okay.
[00:44:09] Jeff: That, which was about a year in now. Not
[00:44:12] Brett: Yeah, yeah, it seems that sounds about right. Um, I, I was talking to him about, um, my self confidence and how it was tied to my weight. And he said the words. Just imagine how much happier you would be if you lost 10 pounds. And, and then like doubled down on this after I explained to him, I need my self worth not to be tied to my waistline.
[00:44:41] Brett: And he’s like, but just imagine losing 10 pounds and how much better you would feel about yourself. And I’m like, that’s not what I need. I
[00:44:52] Christina: needing the opposite actually.
[00:44:53] Brett: have been 185 pounds and I did not feel any better about myself. Like I’ve been there. I’ve done [00:45:00] that. You need to shut the fuck up about losing 10 pounds. And, and he wouldn’t.
[00:45:06] Brett: Instead, he went to a bass fishing analogy,
[00:45:09] Jeff: Oh, what’s up with Nona?
[00:45:11] Brett: Which got real weird, real fast. And he kept telling me to just imagine you just caught a huge bass. You just reeled in a huge bass. And I’m like, I have no connection
[00:45:23] Jeff: I hate
[00:45:24] Brett: to what you’re talking about right now. Yeah. I have no desire to fish. Like none of this makes sense to me.
[00:45:29] Brett: And, and I realized I’m like tweeting with, uh, or I’m texting with Brian, friend of the show, Brian Guffey. Um, I’m texting him in real time. I’m like, I just found out my. My therapist is fat phobic and obsessed with bass fishing and I need to fire this guy. So I start with a new therapist next week, actually, cause I had, I had reached out prior to this and gotten on a waiting list and it timed out such that [00:46:00] I will be with my new therapist the same week I would normally have met with my current therapist after our last session.
[00:46:08] Brett: So I kind of have like no break in therapy. But my new therapist actually has a psychology PhD and multiple, um, master’s degrees in like trauma therapy and things that I think are going to be really good for me, which leads to the second part of this. Um, L discovered, and I don’t remember how they got there, but, um, they sent me an article about complex PTSD
[00:46:39] Jeff: Mm
[00:46:40] Brett: and I’m looking at it and I’m reading the symptoms of complex PTSD.
[00:46:44] Brett: And I’m like, I think I have every single one of these. I think, I think all of this applies to me. And then I get to the causes and it’s mostly like, uh, childhood abuse. Uh, but the last cause is. Defecting from an [00:47:00] authoritarian religion. So I look up authoritarian religion and fundamentalist evangelical Christianity qualifies as authoritarian religion.
[00:47:10] Brett: So everything falls into place. And I ended up looking into, uh, something called religious trauma or. Religious trauma syndrome, RTS, and I realized, and it’s closely tied to complex PTSD, and I realized, oh my God, this is exactly this. And the symptoms of it explain, explain my bipolar. They explain how, how I became bipolar. They explain the emotional dysregulation that is part of bipolar. And it also explains a lot of my attention deficit problems.
[00:47:47] Brett: Um, like my ADHD could be tied to religious trauma syndrome in my case. And like the more, cause like, it’s all about, you grow up as a. As a [00:48:00] young child convinced that any mistake is going to send you to hell for eternity. And I can remember as a young child, having it explained to me that in hell, your flesh painfully burns off your body and then regrows so it can burn again.
[00:48:17] Brett: over and over forever. And like, this is a terrifying thought. And this isn’t in the Bible. This is shit. They made up whole cloth to scare kids. But I spent my childhood in this constant state of fight or flight and never developed like secure attachments with my family. And then like in my high school years, realizing I was queer.
[00:48:41] Brett: Realizing I was pansexual and spending nights trying to pray the gay away and like just constantly sure that I was going to hell and my friends were all going to hell and it was my job to save them. Like I remember being sent to be to like proselytize to my friends [00:49:00] and if they wouldn’t join my church, I needed to not be friends with them like this shit piled up.
[00:49:06] Brett: And I could tell you story after story about how scared I was as a kid, but I think that illustrates it pretty well. And all of my emotional dysregulation as an adult, all of my inability to develop like secure attachments with partners and with other people, like it all makes sense now. So I’m going to my.
[00:49:28] Brett: new therapist with like all of this under my belt looking for like an actual diagnosis, of course. Um, but like, I don’t see any way this couldn’t be an official diagnosis. RTS isn’t in the DSM, um, but complex PTSD is. So I could get that official diagnosis and it, it, it just explains so much. It, it, it, like my whole life makes sense now.
[00:49:56] Jeff: My, uh, my, yeah. Especially when you think about, [00:50:00] um, the relationship between p PTSD and hypervigilance. And I know you’re talking about complex ptsd, um, which I also have experience with like, um, I’m yeah, I was hearing you talk and I’m just like, man, because when you’re a kid that is real, like that’s real, real, real, real.
[00:50:17] Jeff: It’s not like, I mean, yeah, that’s, that’s incredible. I’m so glad you’re, um, able to sort of name that because even as you said the thing about burning flesh and regrowing, it’s like imagining hearing that as a kid and, and I remember things like that, that I believe to be true and then that felt real.
[00:50:36] Brett: Well, and I’m in this state right now of like, like certain recent events like sent me into a trauma reaction and like just this four days on end this panic elevated heart rate nervous system freaking out, just constant state of hyper vigilance and, and fear and, and [00:51:00] like, Thank you. Uh, having this name to put to it, didn’t necessarily stop that from happening.
[00:51:06] Brett: Uh, but there’s a certain comfort to knowing what’s going on.
[00:51:11] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:51:13] Brett: One of the ways that I decided to deal with this, like I was going to quit drinking for 30 days. Um, and, and that seemed, that seemed wise, but once I realized. How much trauma I was actually dealing with taking away my one crutch I had before seeing a therapist seemed ill advised.
[00:51:34] Brett: So, so I have, I have continued drinking in moderation, uh, for the time being, but I got out my treadmill at my desk and I have been walking three to five miles a day on my treadmill. And like working up a sweat and it has been very healthy side story. Um, bod, my remaining cat. Um, when I’m sitting at my desk, she [00:52:00] likes to come.
[00:52:00] Brett: She gets in front of me on my desk, puts her paws on my chest, and then I’ll like scoop her up and, and let her like lay on my belly while I work. And, um, when I’m on my treadmill, she does not understand that I don’t have a lap anymore. And she. She will come up to the edge of my desk and put her paws, both paws, on my chest as I’m walking.
[00:52:23] Brett: So she’s kind of unstable to begin with, but she’ll just sit there. So I started scooping her up and like holding her in my arm across my chest and like petting her while walking on the treadmill. Which she is cool with, surprisingly cool with, despite the constant motion. But when I eventually she’ll get a little bit uncomfortable, like she’ll push against me, I’ll set her back down on the desk.
[00:52:47] Brett: She has learned my treadmill has a control panel that’s on top of the desk and it has a safety key, like a magnetic safety key that you’re supposed to like clip to you. So if you fall off the treadmill, it stops it. [00:53:00] Um, but it just, it’s just stuck in there. She figured out. Very quickly that taking that key out, stop the treadmill and got her lots of attention at the same time.
[00:53:12] Brett: So now every time I set her down, I have to like protect the key in the treadmill because it’s the first thing she’ll do once she gets set down is try to stop the treadmill by removing the key. It’s been very, it’s been very entertaining. It, it makes my heart full to see her so smart and understand like how to get attention.
[00:53:33] Jeff: That’s amazing.
[00:53:35] Christina: I love it.
[00:53:36] Jeff: Hehehehe. Oh, wow, that’s a lot of big stuff, Brett. My, my, my, uh, wife went to seminary and, um, not to be a minister. And actually doesn’t identify as a Christian, but as a progressive. Seminary, Union Theological Seminary in New York. And what she came out of that being most sort of concerned about and interested in was the idea of religious trauma.
[00:53:57] Jeff: And so when she became a therapist, like that’s [00:54:00] always something that she, she stands ready to address. And oftentimes therapists are not, they don’t have the background or the interest or the template. So
[00:54:11] Brett: Yeah. I’m really hoping my, I’m really, my new therapist was to do trauma informed therapy. I don’t know specifically that she has a religious trauma syndrome experience, but I have high
[00:54:24] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, mean, even if it’s not like under like that exact like, um, like name, um, because as you said, that’s not in the DSM four, um, I think that, uh, religion, um, uh, it’s, it’s, I have to think probably one of the more common like trauma causes for people who are not in like a war or abuse situation because it is,
[00:54:44] Brett: given the extent of evangelical Christianity in the U.
[00:54:48] Christina: well, I was going to say in.
[00:54:48] Brett: be a pretty
[00:54:49] Christina: Well, I was just going to say, but you know, not even that, I mean, like, because, because you could honestly apply it to like many, many religions, um, are do these things, right? Like, uh, it’s [00:55:00] not just evangelical Christianity can be parts of, uh, you know, uh, Catholicism. There are sects of Judaism, um, uh, parts of Islam, you know, things that every religion have very, very, um, uh, like, uh, yes, I mean that, that, that’s the whole thing, like the line between like where we as a society draw the line between a cult.
[00:55:19] Christina: And religion is so faint and it really, and it’s usually time is the differentiator, right? Um, time and for some reason, like influence and money, because like, it’s interesting to me. I’m, I’m not going to say what I’m thinking. Um, I, I don’t want to potentially offend people. Um, but anyway, um,
[00:55:42] Brett: I, I hung out with, like, I met this, this guy, uh, an older gay man. Uh, in La Crosse, Wisconsin, which is about 30 minutes from me and, uh, I took him out for drinks and like, I had just discovered this religious trauma syndrome thing. So like [00:56:00] we sit down for drinks and the first thing I have to say is like, I, so here’s what happened to me this morning.
[00:56:06] Brett: I just found out about this religious trauma syndrome and I barely know the guy, but he’s immediately like, yeah, I grew up Mormon.
[00:56:14] Christina: Yes. Yeah, I,
[00:56:15] Brett: I know how you feel right
[00:56:17] Christina: I, I was, I was going to make a comment about, about, about, um, the, the Latter day Saints and I’m an analogy to another group. I’m not going to, I’m just not going to
[00:56:26] Brett: but you’re, you’re, you’re defining that line between cult and religion for
[00:56:30] Christina: It’s very faint and, and it’s, um, You know, and so, and especially, uh, I mean, and again, I think this is a global thing.
[00:56:38] Christina: Like I think you have people all over the place, but since, you know, we are, uh, uh, Western and like, we are, especially in the United States, like we are a country that literally was like founded by puritanical, like religious, like people, like, like, like, like religious liberty is one of the foundations. of our country, um, either the ability to have religion or not, to be clear, most of our, our [00:57:00] founding fathers were not devout anything, they were theists if, if anything, but they were not, uh, you know, like most of them were not like overly religious.
[00:57:08] Christina: Um, uh, and. I think as a result of that, like that’s been such a common part of, um, our culture. And then if you look like just globally, like religion is such a common part of community. I think that it’d be impossible to not have that be a huge contributor to trauma in many regards. So, uh, which was a very, very long way of saying, even if she doesn’t know this specific thing, um, she probably, I’m sure has experienced dealing with people who have gone through very traumatic experiences because of.
[00:57:40] Christina: You know, their, their religious upbringing.
[00:57:42] Brett: you would think so.
[00:57:44] Jeff: Yeah.
[00:57:44] Brett: Should we try to fit in a Graptitude?
[00:57:47] Jeff: to dude.
[00:57:49] Brett: Do you guys have,
[00:57:50] Christina: I, I have one. Um, if, do you, do you have one, um, Jeff or Brett?
[00:57:55] Brett: Yeah, I can kick it off. Mine is not a specific app and I [00:58:00] can’t actually speak to. So. Set app recently released a beta with an AI search engine so you can use basically chat chat GPT to discover new apps, which I think is a brilliant move as part of the marketing for this, they highlighted apps on set up that use AI and there are three that have them.
[00:58:31] Brett: Been interesting to me, there’s Eliphas, E L E P H A S, uh, which is like an AI writing assistant. Um, there’s one called Plus, which is working with text using AI. And TypingMind, which is use the new chat UI to chat with AI. And I’ve tried Eliphas, it’s, it’s cool. It’s, there are a lot of like, chat GBT. Apps out there that will assist you with like finish you write a [00:59:00] paragraph and then let it like continue your paragraph into a whole piece or, uh, you give it an email and say, respond positively or negatively to this email.
[00:59:10] Brett: And it is it. It is included with set app. So it’s free to set up users. Um, and does a great job with that. I haven’t tried plus or typing mind yet. Uh, they also highlight craft Canary mail, Luminar Neo. Photos revived task heat and structured as all incorporating, uh, AI to some extent. So, um, I was just going to say my, my pick for the week is AI on set app.
[00:59:38] Brett: There are a lot of apps that are worth exploring, especially if you already have a set up subscription and if you don’t,
[00:59:46] Jeff: Which you
[00:59:47] Brett: maybe it’s worth it.
[00:59:48] Christina: Yeah, yeah, I’d mentioned, uh, TypingMind, which is one of the, the apps they have, like, that was one of my picks of the week a few weeks ago,
[00:59:55] Brett: Yeah. Okay.
[00:59:56] Christina: and that’s, that’s like a, basically like a chat GBT front end, what I like about it, [01:00:00] or, or Anthropic, what I like about it is that you can actually bring your own um, Um, open a I, uh, I think they give you a certain number of, of things for free from set up to, to use it.
[01:00:10] Christina: But if you have a, an open AI API, uh, key, you can use that too. And, and I do, I also, I’ve been paying for chat GPT plus, but I might actually cancel that subscription and just keep. Paying as you go for the open AI stuff. Um, uh, I’ve been looking, I haven’t seen anything yet. Llama 2, uh, meta announced that this week and that is their new, um, large language model, um, that they’ve basically made, um, um, uh, freely available.
[01:00:39] Christina: Uh, it’s not, it’s technically not open source, but, uh, as long as you have under 700 million global, um, uh, or monthly average users, um, you can use it for free for commercial or research purposes and you can host it locally. Or you can like, like Azure, uh, is going to have like a hosted, um, or already has like a hosted version and there’s, [01:01:00] um, AWS or whatever hugging face.
[01:01:02] Christina: But, um, I, I haven’t looked super closely yet to see if people are, have, cause it’s, it’s a whole, it’s, it’s, it’s like GPT 3. 5 is, is, um, what a lot of people are comparing it to. And so I’m. Um, you know, uh, like hugging, um, face has created a chat bot and there’ve been some other things, but I haven’t, I haven’t seen like a good Mac front end yet for some of the tools people have done, but I’m keeping my eye, my eye out for that.
[01:01:29] Christina: And I think that that’s going to become the big thing that we see a lot of people, uh, implementing because it is free, um, or freely available, you know? So a lot of people I think are going to be using that as kind of their, their backend for, um, A lot of these projects, uh, moving forward, I expect that we’ll see a big explosion
[01:01:48] Brett: So if you get, if you get more than what, what is that arbitrary 700 million,
[01:01:54] Christina: I mean, cause it was, it was
[01:01:55] Brett: they, will they price you out at that point?
[01:01:58] Christina: you have to have a special license from [01:02:00] them is what they say.
[01:02:00] Brett: Sure. But you would think like once you have 700 million users, you would be able to charge a reasonable amount to pay a reasonable fee to use
[01:02:08] Christina: it’s very clearly designed to target two companies specifically, uh, the first being Snapchat and the second being TikTok, because those have over 700 million users.
[01:02:18] Brett: Dude, I just figured out what Snapchat is for. It took me this long to realize it’s all about sexting. Like, I never, I never understood this. I didn’t know this. I, I just, I set up my, I know, right? Like, it seems so obvious when you realize it, but like, everyone kept asking me, Are you on Snapchat?
[01:02:39] Brett: Are you on Snapchat? And I’m like, no. So I finally, I set up an account, and like, this doesn’t make any sense. All my shit disappears, like, as soon as I send it. And then some… Some guy sends me a dick pic and I’m like,
[01:02:50] Jeff: want this?
[01:02:50] Brett: I’m like, wait, no. Now I understand what this is for,
[01:02:54] Christina: god damn, okay, this is, I’m, welcome, welcome to 2012, Brett.[01:03:00]
[01:03:00] Brett: right?
[01:03:01] Jeff: Yeah, you’re going to love it. You’re going to love
[01:03:04] Brett: guys, you guys missed my birthday. I just turned 45. I have
[01:03:08] Jeff: didn’t say happy birthday.
[01:03:09] Brett: I
[01:03:09] Christina: know, I know. We had Happy birthday. Happy birthday. We love you.
[01:03:12] Brett: I have a lot to learn. Uh, Snapchat is very new to me. Um, I’ve made, I’ve made some surprisingly good friends there.
[01:03:22] Christina: Oh yeah,
[01:03:22] Brett: I’ll, I’ll leave it at that.
[01:03:25] Jeff: Christine and I both wished you happy birthday the day
[01:03:27] Christina: we did.
[01:03:28] Brett: You did.
[01:03:28] Christina: then we forgot the day
[01:03:30] Brett: So, so, so many people can’t, I don’t know how it got into everyone’s calendar as being on
[01:03:36] Jeff: No, it’s because you put up your fundraiser ahead of time.
[01:03:40] Brett: yeah, that fundraiser went well. I, I got all the funding I was hoping for, for the Warehouse Alliance.
[01:03:48] Jeff: Awesome.
[01:03:48] Brett: Uh, and then some, so, thanks to everyone who contributed.
[01:03:53] Christina: I did not see anything on Facebook, so I apologize. I did not contribute. If I had known, I would have, but I don’t, I don’t use Facebook because,
[01:03:59] Brett: it’s [01:04:00] surprisingly,
[01:04:00] Christina: I know what Snapchat is for
[01:04:02] Brett: the largest, so, so,
[01:04:04] Christina: so I’m, so, I’m a, I’m, I’m not the right Facebook age. Sorry. Go on.
[01:04:08] Brett: The largest contributions to my fundraiser came from people who have no connection. So the warehouse is, uh, in La Crosse, Wisconsin. It’s, uh, it’s an all ages nightclub. Um, I’ve had the owner, uh, proprietor of the warehouse on Systematic before. And basically his mission for over 30 years now has just been to give kids a safe place.
[01:04:31] Brett: It’s a drug and alcohol free music venue, uh, that keeps kid off the streets. Uh, he’s, he’s launched like dozens of bands that have gone on to great fame that grew up as warehouse kids. And I grew up as a warehouse kid and he, a while back became a nonprofit and, uh, called the warehouse Alliance. And the goal is just to keep the place running [01:05:00] and to keep kids off the street and give, uh, Angsty, queer, like kids who don’t fit in anywhere else a place to go.
[01:05:08] Brett: And that’s always been important to me. So that’s what I picked for the last few years as my fundraiser. And the people who have donated the most are people who have no connection to lacrosse or to the warehouse. And like, they read the mission statement and they’re like, yeah, this makes sense. So it’s been heartening to, to see the donations come in.
[01:05:29] Christina: That’s
[01:05:29] Jeff: That’s great. That’s great.
[01:05:32] Brett: All right, Jeff, what you got?
[01:05:33] Jeff: Uh, okay. So in the past, I’ve talked about an app called who to spot. We all, I think we all have at some point, um, which is just this amazing app for, for locating files, especially if you have a, you know, 20 year digital mess like I do. Um, and I, I also have used forever, but have just been using it again, uh, an app that’s a, that called Tembo, which is the Swahili word from L for elephant, which I now know drives.
[01:05:59] Jeff: [01:06:00] Um, And, and Tembo is amazing. It feels more like a finder window, but you, you type in what you’re looking for and it groups everything
[01:06:07] Brett: Also from Huda, right?
[01:06:09] Jeff: from Huda. Sorry. That’s, so that’s also their app and it’s very cheap. It’s like 15 bucks. Um, and, and what I will say is like, what’s amazing about it is I had.
[01:06:17] Jeff: I had gotten so used to using who to spot that I’d forgotten how, like, if you’re just looking for, if it’s not like a really intense file search, like that’s a lot of, uh, it’s just, there’s a lot going on to just find a file that like you could find pretty quickly, maybe even in finder, but I need, but you need something like slightly more powerful.
[01:06:35] Jeff: And so just like a couple of things that I really love about Tembo is first of all, you can like. It’s similar to finder. You can like, you can actually say how you want your results grouped. Like, you know, you want to see contacts, you want to see images, you want to see messages, whatever it is. Right. They, they also work with Apple mail really nicely.
[01:06:51] Jeff: Um, but then they’re like keyboard shortcuts. So like, if I search something like, uh, you know, I work with a client, if I search that client’s, uh, name, [01:07:00] um, I will, I will see everything, but then there’s keyboard shortcuts to be like, just show me today, just show me the last week, just show me yesterday, whatever.
[01:07:07] Jeff: Right. So you can just drill down into stuff really quickly. And the feature I love the most is that like so many of these, um, apps or services, you can, you can exclude files, right? But it has a group at the very bottom that is your search results from your excluded files or, or your excuse excluded areas.
[01:07:26] Jeff: And, and I think that’s brilliant. Like, I know I don’t want to see these things, I think, but I can always like scroll all the way down and be like, Oh, there is something in my excluded files. Um, so anyway, Tembo is amazing. It’s super like a lightweight, but super powerful app. And even if you use who to spot, like this is a great, like a great reminder that like you only need sometimes like one, one hundredth of what who to spot can do, um, and that’s still a lot.
[01:07:52] Brett: Yeah.
[01:07:53] Jeff: So anyway, Tembo is my, my pick from the good people at who does software.
[01:07:57] Christina: Nice, nice. All right. [01:08:00] Well, my pick is Orbstack, which is at a Orbstack, O R B S T A C K dot dev. And, uh, this is, it uses Kalima under the hood, which is a like container, um, Linux, like a runtime thing for, um, um. Mac OS, which basically is like a kind of, kind of a replacement stack for, um, doing something like docker desktop and, um, what I like about orb stack is that it’s, it’s a really, really good looking kind of like interface.
[01:08:33] Christina: It’s kind of like a nice, like docker desktop alternative and kind of an all in one app that basically, um, they don’t have Cooper 90 support yet, but it’s coming really good way to like manage, you know, like, like, um, you know, containers or, or, or VMs. Um, And, um, I discovered this recently and I really, really like it.
[01:08:52] Christina: It’s, it’s a nicely native app. The, uh, it’s, it’s in public beta right now. It’s free. They’re going to have some sort of pricing plan. I’m not sure what [01:09:00] it’s going to be, but it’s going to be reasonable. It might even be free for most people. I think the main developer on this is like a teenager, but he’s incredibly talented, incredibly good.
[01:09:09] Christina: I actually love that. Like that, that
[01:09:11] Jeff: Yeah, that’s great.
[01:09:12] Christina: part of it makes me feel old, but part of it also is like, it gets me excited because I’m like, the, the, the teens are still doing it. Right. Like they’re, they’re still building and doing really good stuff. And so, um, uh, Orbstack, if you’ve been looking for a replacement to Docker desktop, cause Docker desktop at this point is kind of a shit show.
[01:09:28] Christina: And Docker as a company has made a lot of, of issues. This runs on both Apple Silicon and on Intel, which is great. And, um, I, uh, I really like it. So Orbstack
[01:09:39] Brett: and it works with docker images,
[01:09:41] Christina: Yeah, it does. Yeah, exactly. It’s just, it’s kind of an alternative front end, but it runs it. It’s like, it’s runs it like it’s native.
[01:09:46] Christina: Like the memory footprint is so much better. Like it’s really, really good.
[01:09:51] Brett: I’m looking at the stats. These benchmarks are crazy. Oh my god. Thank you for sharing this. I Am a hundred percent switching to this [01:10:00] Docker just stopped running on Synology’s
[01:10:04] Christina: Yeah. I saw
[01:10:05] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:10:07] Brett: like the whole reason I bought the 15, 20, whatever I bought, uh, was to run Docker images on my Synology and they just all suddenly stopped working.
[01:10:20] Jeff: Ugh. Yeah, people run a lot of docker
[01:10:23] Christina: I was going to say, yeah, I have, I have a bunch of Docker containers running our technology. So is this just like a thing that just like, like that, that happened? Like, do you need to update the software or what?
[01:10:32] Brett: last DSM update for Synology stopped Docker from working for me.
[01:10:39] Christina: Oh damn, that sucks.
[01:10:41] Brett: Yeah, I like I do. I don’t understand
[01:10:44] Christina: you should, you should either go to the Sonology subreddit or you should, like, report them a thing. But I bet if you put it in the subreddit I bet people will help you figure it out.
[01:10:51] Brett: Yeah, I’ll look into it. But this is awesome for like, because I run Docker on a Mac [01:11:00] mini 2012 Mac mini in my basement. And, um, and like, I mostly use it to run like my VPN workarounds and everything. But this would be Way easier on my system, um, on a, on a 2012 Mac mini with like 16 gigabytes of RAM. Um, it could use this, um, by the way, um, Mac mini colo, which became Mac stadium, uh, which is a co location service where you can like basically rent a Mac
[01:11:34] Christina: Or it was, they don’t let they, they don’t let you co-locate anymore. I, I noticed Yes. The other
[01:11:38] Brett: really.
[01:11:39] Christina: Yeah.
[01:11:40] Brett: But anyway, they have this surplus of Mac minis, uh, like 2012, 2016 Mac minis, um, that you can go to a place called orchard resales and, uh, and you can pick up like a 2012 Mac mini maxed out, which is like a terabyte [01:12:00] of storage and 16 gigabytes of Ram, and you can pick it up for a hundred bucks.
[01:12:05] Christina: Huh?
[01:12:06] Brett: And so if you’re looking for a really good like little server, like media server or whatever for your home, uh, orchard resales, and I’ll put it in the
[01:12:16] Jeff: I’m searching Orchard Resales and I’m
[01:12:18] Christina: I wasn’t either, but I found out it, it, it is orchard resales.com.
[01:12:22] Jeff: Uh, okay,
[01:12:23] Christina: I have, I have the same problem. Yeah. You can get, you can get like a, uh, a, a 2014. Mac mini with like a dual core, like, um, 2. 8, I five for like a hundred bucks with, with, with, um,
[01:12:38] Jeff: That’s awesome.
[01:12:38] Christina: 105 if you get it with an SSD. Yeah.
[01:12:41] Brett: and I can tell you these machines, once you put an SSD in them are excellent little home servers. And it is an insanely good price for, for gently used Mac minis. Um, he’s actually sponsoring my blog next week.
[01:12:59] Christina: That’s awesome.
[01:12:59] Brett: [01:13:00] Um, it’s not officially related to, uh, Mac Manicolo or Mac Stadium, just to be clear. Um, but he, he is, he is selling off.
[01:13:11] Brett: I don’t even know how many he has in stock, but enough to make it worth sponsoring my blog,
[01:13:16] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s awesome.
[01:13:18] Brett: yeah,
[01:13:19] Christina: That’s great. Yeah, because, because honestly, at this point, like, I’m not sure what the latest version of Mac OS you can run on those
[01:13:25] Brett: I think it’s Big Sur,
[01:13:26] Christina: Yeah, but like, honestly, put Linux on it. Like, like, like, honestly, like, for what most people are going to use it for, like, that’s probably what I would buy it and use it for.
[01:13:39] Christina: Like, I love Mac OS. But if I was going to be running Docker and things on it, like, I’m not gonna, you know what I mean? Like, I would I would be like, hey, this is,
[01:13:46] Brett: Docker, Docker and Plex and whatever. What’s the QNAP? Is that the alternative
[01:13:53] Christina: jellies, the alternative plex.
[01:13:55] Brett: to, no, to, to
[01:13:56] Christina: Testonology, yes, it’s QNAP, yeah.
[01:13:58] Brett: QNAP. Yeah. [01:14:00] Like you could probably run a lot of the QNAP.
[01:14:02] Christina: Packages.
[01:14:03] Brett: yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, great little, great little machines for a hundred bucks.
[01:14:09] Christina: that’s awesome. Yeah. I’m like looking at this now. I’m like tempted. I’m like, do I need to do this? Cause I’ve been, I’ve,
[01:14:14] Brett: Do I need another Mac mini
[01:14:15] Christina: well, I was going to say, cause we’ve got a lot and we have old servers. Cause what I’ve been looking at wanting to do is I’m just going to quick tangent, um, uh, before we end the episode, um, I’ve been looking at, so there’s this, uh, there’s this website and this YouTube channel called, um, what is it called?
[01:14:30] Christina: I think it’s called serve the home. Um, and, um, and, uh, yeah. Yeah, serve the home. And, and I really liked the, the guy’s YouTube channel. Um, I like his website too, but he’s been doing like this whole series for a couple of years on like what he calls like, um, Mac, like, like, like, like mini micro, um, like ultra or something basically looks at like one liter size PCs.
[01:14:57] Christina: And, um, so there are a lot of [01:15:00] workstation computers that you can get used for really good prices that are really, really like basically like. You know, like even like, like 12th gen Intel’s, you know, really powerful, uh, machines that you could get for like 500 bucks that you could basically turn into like, almost like legit, you know, like servers.
[01:15:16] Christina: Um, and, and they, they fit in like, you know, but they’re super tiny, tiny mini micro, that’s what his project is called. And it’s basically.
[01:15:23] Brett: micro.
[01:15:23] Jeff: mini
[01:15:24] Christina: And it’s like basically like his, his, his project of trying to like turn like a one liter PC into a server. And so he covers, you know, a lot of the different software and things you can do, how you can find good deals on these things because enterprises buy these and then cycle through them really quickly.
[01:15:39] Christina: And if you, you can put a lot of RAM in them and connect them to like, you know, either a NAS or something else that you can do a lot. So I’ve been, I’ve been toying with the idea of getting one of those to use as a server thing. But the Mac mini is also tempting.
[01:15:52] Brett: Yeah. All right. Well, honestly, we didn’t cover hardly [01:16:00] any pop culture.
[01:16:01] Christina: next episode we can talk about Barbenheimer if I, especially if I, if
[01:16:05] Jeff: Oh, I’ll try to get there by
[01:16:07] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, cause I did Barbenheimer this weekend and I have thoughts, but I would love to talk about either or both films with, uh, with, with you guys, uh,
[01:16:15] Brett: Yeah. I would love that. Um, I feel like our focus on mental health, this episode is definitely going to have a title related to mental
[01:16:23] Christina: I mean, honestly, I think it’s just Jeopardy called Mental Health Corner.
[01:16:26] Brett: I, I tend to agree. I think, I think by the time anyone listens to this, they’ll already know that that’s the case.
[01:16:33] Christina: ha ha.
[01:16:33] Brett: All right, you guys, thanks. Thanks. Welcome back,
[01:16:37] Christina: Welcome back,
[01:16:38] Jeff: you. Get some sleep.
[01:16:39] Brett: Get some sleep. [01:17:00]