Overtired 278

[00:00:00] Jeff: Welcome to the Overtired podcast. I’m the new guy, Jeff Sevrens Guntzel. And I’m here with Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra. Hi everybody.

[00:00:13] Brett: Hey, Jeff.

[00:00:14] Christina: Hey Jeff. . That was fun.

[00:00:17] Uh, do, do do the Sunday, Sunday, Sunday thing, cuz that was good. Sunday, Sunday,

[00:00:21] Jeff: Sunday.

[00:00:22] Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:00:24] Brett: except we’re recording on a Saturday. We’re publishing on a Friday, but we’ll take It

[00:00:29] Christina: It doesn’t matter. Look who doesn’t love monster truck. As on Thursday, Thursday, Thursday.

[00:00:33] Brett: We’ll sell you the whole seat, but you’ll only need the edge.

[00:00:38] Jeff: Man, you know what? I recently went down, I know, you know, TikTok should be a sponsor. Uh, I, I went down a TikTok monster truck, rabbit hole, and I never went to one of those and I gathered they were fun and cooled. I had no idea how fucking cool those things were. that’s all, that’s the, that’s the end of the topic.[00:01:00]

[00:01:01] Brett: So, uh, let’s have a mental health corner. Jeff, how’s your mental health.

[00:01:05] Jeff: you know, it’s, uh, it’s pretty good. Uh, I’ve got like a nice, I kind of went through a medication balancing crisis

[00:01:12] Brett: Yeah, I know how

[00:01:13] Jeff: and, uh, And I’ve come out of that really. Um, just feeling very even, which is, um, something I don’t feel as much as I would like. And I’m sleeping again after I think two or maybe three weeks of getting around two to three hours of not deep sleep a night.

[00:01:31] And, um, and so I’m, I’m like, I’m like much happier person than I’ve been in quite a while. How about

[00:01:37] Christina: y’all? That’s fantastic. Um, I’m doing okay. I need to, and, and the thing is, is that for various reasons that I’ll be able to talk about more in the future? I, I, I, I can’t kind of do it right now, but I need to, um, get with my shrink and, and potentially actually just go to a sleep doctor and like one of those sleep study things, I had one like 15 years ago, but I need another one [00:02:00] because I feel like I need to get my sleep in check.

[00:02:03] So.

[00:02:05] Jeff: Yeah. So what is the, how would you describe the sleep? Is it just like you’re just wide awake

[00:02:08] Christina: or, yeah, I mean, it’s one of those things and it’s like, I have a hard time getting to sleep and then sometimes once I do, I might sleep really long and sometimes I, you know, won’t, you know, I, I, I started doing this whole nap thing again, which I know probably isn’t good, but I have to better than I, but yeah, but it’s better than like, not doing anything.

[00:02:26] So I think it probably needs consistency in other stuff, but I I’ve always had a hard time, like getting to sleep like insomnia has been a lifelong struggle.

[00:02:36] Jeff: And so you’d done a sleep

[00:02:37] Christina: study. Yeah. But it was, I was in college, so okay. You know, so, and I, so you were drunk. Yeah, exactly. Got it. Um, and so, yeah, so I, I need to do one of those again, cuz my, my shrink gave me some sort of sleeping pill that it’s one of those things where it’s not habit forming, so it’s not like ambient or one of those things where like you have to, you know, like they, you know, give you side eyes at the [00:03:00] pharmacist or whatever.

[00:03:01] And they even done things where like, they, you know, can wake people up after, you know, being asleep for a couple of hours who have taken it and then they can do like a 10 point, you know, driving test type of thing. Um, so, so it’s supposed to be good for that, but it’s just having no impact on me at all.

[00:03:16] So we need to try some other stuff. But, um, and uh, I don’t know if I need to do a sleep study, but I have a feeling that probably would help, you know, for them to have access to stuff just so I could get like a better. Insight, but anyway, I, I, I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m glad that you’ve got your stuff mellowed out.

[00:03:32] I’m glad that you’re getting some sleep. Well, I,

[00:03:34] Jeff: maybe, I, I mean, I’ve gotten in touch with a sleep psychologist and I’ve started with new therapist and I’m not sure I want to also start with a sleep psychologist at the same time.

[00:03:42] Christina: Oh no, that totally, totally. Yeah. A lot of change, lot

[00:03:45] Jeff: of change, but I, I want someone to help me, but maybe I just need a sleep study.

[00:03:49] Maybe I’m just snoring myself awake. Cuz that’s, that’s come on in my life. Especially as I take meds that make me gain weight. Right, right.

[00:03:58] Brett: I’ve been waking up like [00:04:00] way too early since I started the VI events. Like I’ve been falling asleep fine at night, but then I wake up around three or four. And, uh, this week I only got one night of sleep where I actually slept until my alarm went off at five 30. Um, so I’m a, I’m a little hired, but I’ve just been like short an hour or two a night.

[00:04:21] You know how that adds up over time. But, uh, it’s not, I’m not awful. I’m still I’m I’m wearing into the, the VI event though. It’s it’s actually, it’s been a little jittery than I remember it ever being before. Maybe she, I cut my dose down. I think

[00:04:39] Jeff: you gotta cut the dose. I, I was, I ruined a tooth. I think I told you this from like grinding my, my teeth and right. Part of like my very back bottom tooth on the right side, just like cracked off. like, okay, I’m gonna change my dosage.

[00:04:54] Brett: I correct. I correct the front. Did we already talk about my dentist visit? [00:05:00] I like broke. I broke one of my front teeth and I went to the dentist and they gave me Novacane, which was weird because the dentist I’ve been seeing for the last decade does not give me Novacane and she just drills until I, until she sees like a here go down my face and then she does the filling and they gave me Novacane and they drilled as deep as they needed to.

[00:05:22] And they gave me a real filling that won’t fall out. And I’m switching Dennis

[00:05:26] Christina: Nice. Hell. Yeah. Because

[00:05:28] Jeff: you, you see that you had been in an abusive relationship.

[00:05:31] Christina: Yeah. I was gonna say, I, I ghosted my dentist and I didn’t mean to, because I’d finally gotten back in the habit again and she was great. And then I had a ton of travel and I didn’t go for a while. And then by the time I needed to go again, it was the freaking pandemic and they weren’t doing anything.

[00:05:46] And now, you know, and then like two years goes by. And so I had finally gotten myself in a good place with my teeth and I’m way behind. And so I’m gonna have to start all over again, but I, I, hopefully I can, hopefully I can go to the same person cuz she was [00:06:00] really, really nice. Plus they had a, they had Netflix like um, Ooh, in, in the, in the chairs, like they had TVs kind of like were just listening air supply.

[00:06:09] No. Well that was what was so cool. Right? Like you go in and like they had kind of like TVs kind of like mounted, like with Rokus. And so then they would just put in like kind of like a cheap like head phone thing that they would like give you that you could, you know, connect to the Roku mode and like I’d watch Netflix while I was getting my teeth cleaned.

[00:06:24] Brett: That’s brilliant. That’s a great distraction.

[00:06:28] Christina: it

[00:06:28] Jeff: honestly is my dentist in the waiting room of my dentists office. They had this video playing on loop of a chimpanzee, getting its teeth brushed.

[00:06:39] that’s not why I chose them

[00:06:41] Brett: my dentist was playing guns and roses while I was in the chair.

[00:06:46] Christina: like, like, like a whole album or,

[00:06:47] Brett: Uh, no, they were, they had on like some local radio station that has absolutely no consistency. Like they are like the best of, of everything of all times. Like, they’ll go [00:07:00] from like the chandel’s to guns and roses to creed. Like it’s, it’s what the fuck ever at any point.

[00:07:06] And I, so I’m sitting there and welcome to the jungle comes on and I’m like, this is the first time I’ve ever heard. This is the first time I’ve ever heard guns and roses in a. dentist office.

[00:07:16] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:07:17] Brett: It’s not your typical fair.

[00:07:19] Jeff: Hey, oh, before we get out of mental health slash dental health, uh, corner. Yes. Um, because this is called Overtired. I, I had the most like tired experience of my life, which was the last day before I started sleeping. Well, again, when I was, again, like two or three weeks into these, just very Rocky sleep nights, I was, I was up in the morning and I hadn’t had coffee and I went to pee and I grabbed a K N 95 mask and put it on and then went into pee and was like, what the fuck did I just do?

[00:07:55] That’s literally the most ti, like, I often joke that you need coffee to make [00:08:00] coffee. Right? Like sometimes I just do stupid things when I’m trying to make coffee, cuz I need coffee so bad. Uh, but that one was, was a brand new kind of, maybe I’m just completely losing my mind.

[00:08:11] Brett: Yeah,

[00:08:12] Jeff: But nobody got sick in that

[00:08:13] Christina: bathroom.

[00:08:14] Yeah. I was gonna say, I was gonna say like, how fucked is it though? That like, even our subconscious, like, even like you’re tired of state is like, need to put the mask on. Oh, I know, man. It’s crazy.

[00:08:23] Brett: I, I went to target without a mask yesterday. Uh, like

[00:08:28] our com our community spread is down. I’m fully vaccinated. And I thought like our target, it, it, wasn’t a busy time of day. Like social distancing is easy. And I thought, you know, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna fucking just go somewhere without a mask for once.

[00:08:42] And I really enjoyed it. It very nice. I felt like I made a responsible decision. There were plenty of people still in masks, and that made me feel like they were probably look, they probably thought I was a

[00:08:51] Christina: They probably were,

[00:08:52] Brett: but,

[00:08:53] Christina: but, but, well, you know, and that fears you, but at the same time, like Washington state was the last state to drop the mask mandate [00:09:00] and uh, like it wasn’t until last Friday that they finally dropped it. Um, and, um, So, and, and we’d been one of the better states in terms of both the vaccination thing and in terms of, of cases and stuff for quite a while.

[00:09:16] So at a certain point, it I’m gonna be honest. It just, it feels performative. And especially since with you, the masks only help so much anyway. So like, yeah, like I I’ve kind of had that same feeling like, oh, people are gonna think I’m a Republican and I’m like, you know what? Like we’re allowed not to wear them now, fuck off.

[00:09:37] Brett: And I don’t know

[00:09:38] Christina: You know, if you, if you that’s what I’m saying and like, and if you wanna wear it, like, awesome. That is fantastic. I’m, I’m happy for you to do that. I don’t, I I’m actually very happy to not have like mask me anymore. I had to go to a fucking dermatologist and get on, um, antibiotics for my rosacea that I’m still taking because, because of, of, of the mask me.

[00:09:59] So, you know, [00:10:00] like, yeah,

[00:10:01] Brett: Nobody likes wearing a mask. We did it because it, it was the kind thing to do for our fellow travelers. But yeah.

[00:10:09] I’m not, if I don’t have to, I’m not gonna, I don’t, I don’t need to it’s you’re Right.

[00:10:16] Performative. I don’t need to perform that.

[00:10:20] Christina: Yeah.

[00:10:20] Jeff: And, and yet I went into the grocery store the other day with that one, just cause I had forgotten it and, and nobody was not wearing it. And I’m like, oh God damn it. And then now I’ve got friends. There are people in my circle getting COVID again. , it’s just like, what the fuck? And, but I’ve doubled down.

[00:10:35] Like I not only will sometimes not wear a mask, but I bought a Ford F150 for a thousand bucks and I’ve taken to wearing camo pants.

[00:10:42] Brett: Are you, are you being serious? Is this serious?

[00:10:44] Jeff: yes, I’m serious. And the F-150 has an NRA described,

[00:10:48] Brett: Wow,

[00:10:49] Jeff: I’m gonna get off, which I’m gonna get off. But, um,

[00:10:51] Brett: no, that feels performative.

[00:10:53] Jeff: I am like deep cover, except that I always wear.

[00:10:55] If I’m wearing camel pants, I always wear a shirt. There are all these great Threadless shirts with [00:11:00] like flowers on them that I like. So I always wear the flower shirt just to keep things real, you know, but if I walk out, I get out of a fucking F-150 with an NRA sticker, wearing camel pants and no mask.

[00:11:13] And it’s just like, I might as well be in Winona, Brett

[00:11:16] Brett: is, what is that supposed to mean?

[00:11:18] Jeff: dude. Come on.

[00:11:20] Brett: It’s a very blue city. No, it’s not very blue. We

[00:11:24] have,

[00:11:24] Jeff: anywhere out, anywhere, outstate, anywhere. Outstate, you got more camel pants. You got more, uh, you got more, uh, F one 50 S uh

[00:11:32] Brett: we did have a dude with Confederate flag Confederate flag, um, mud flaps driving around last summer. Tim’s seen him since though.

[00:11:40] Christina: man.

[00:11:41] Back to the Bee Gees

[00:11:41] Brett: Um, okay. So can we revisit thes.

[00:11:45] Jeff: yes, please. Oh, that’s an awesome

[00:11:47] Brett: I, I tried, I, I tried, as I mentioned at the end of the last show, like I watched Saturday, the night fever, I like looked up best of the BJ’s playlist.

[00:11:56] I went through all the covers. I could find of BJ songs [00:12:00] and I, I still, it makes me feel yucky to hear that music I do. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna use, I’m not gonna say I hate it. And I’m not gonna say, there’s anything wrong with the music. And it’s fine. It’s fine with me. If other people like it, I like it doesn’t make me think any less of them.

[00:12:20] But when I hear the BGS, I feel gross inside. Of course, watching Saturday, Saturday night fever also made me feel gross

[00:12:28] Christina: I was gonna say, I was gonna say you poured it on. Yeah, I was gonna say you did. I mean, I don’t know that that film is such a vibe though. It’s such like a, a film from that era, like it made am such a huge star. Like it’s, it’s really interesting. I will say that the follow. Oh, it totally is, but it’s also, I don’t know.

[00:12:48] It, it, it, I can’t hate that film. Um, uh, just, just for like where it fits in kind of like the, the seventies cannon, um, I will say the, the follow [00:13:00] staying alive, the sequel, which was panned and data horribly, the box office is like, if you, you ever just like really wanna watch, like, just like a, a terrible follow up to a film,

[00:13:11] Jeff: there was

[00:13:12] Brett: a

[00:13:12] film. I already didn’t

[00:13:13] Christina: Baloo yeah, yeah.

[00:13:15] It, it was called, it was called staying alive. And it was basically like the depressing, like version of like, okay. His career is kind of like over and like, like what what’s he gonna do now? Like, it’s, it’s, um, really, really, uh, it’s worth watching for wanna see like somebody taking. Doing the complete wrong approach for sequel on every possible level.

[00:13:36] Like the reason that the film worked was because of the dancing and the music and whatnot, it clearly could only work in 1977. And, and then the, the, um, the, the film in, in 1983, um, was, was like just,

[00:13:50] Jeff: yeah. Did they, did they at least use, did they at least use the die hard naming convention? Like staying alive some

[00:13:57] Christina: more?

[00:13:58] No, no. And it was [00:14:00] just called staying alive. Wow.

[00:14:03] Brett: Um, so here, so I examined myself. This led to a long period of self-examination like, what’s wrong with me that I can’t like this, you know, happy melancholy, even like, feel good music. And I realized that I have this strong, uh, a true action to dark angsty music, and it can be sad, dark. It can be angry, dark.

[00:14:30] Like I just, I need a certain amount of darkness. It’s why I like Cale more than I like Taylor swift. I like a certain amount of pain in my music. And if it isn’t there,

[00:14:41] Christina: I mean, she has so much pain. She has so much pain, but, but go on.

[00:14:45] Brett: Like I’m not looking up the backstory of like every, every artist I listen to, like, I just need the music to feel authentically bad, like authentically sad or angry.

[00:14:57] Um, and that’s just, that’s just [00:15:00] what I like. And I don’t know where it comes from. I don’t know why that is, but that’s what I figured out about myself silent.

[00:15:07] Christina: that makes sense. No, that makes sense. And I feel like it definitely the BGS, although there is some like 10 sadness, I think in some of their songs, cuz they’re great. Pop songs, writers you’re completely right. Like the whole flow of that music. And even like the construction of those songs they’re pops.

[00:15:21] Right. And, and they, they’re not going like they, they did some ballet, but not really the, the tear jerker weepy shit. So yeah, I can, I can see that. I, I can, that makes sense to me. I will, I will say, I feel like. And when the rerelease happens, we’ll definitely talk about it more, but I feel like you’ll enjoy the speak now.

[00:15:40] Taylor swift album a lot, because like, dear John is the greatest. Fuck you song ever written.

[00:15:46] Brett: Yeah. Well, and, and as you’ve noticed, the songs that I, say, I like by Taylor swift are her angsty songs like that. It, it, it.

[00:15:54] holds true, even in my listening to Taylor swift, uh, the stuff that is just [00:16:00] kind of poppy, or even just like kind of melancholy, it’s the stuff that’s a little. Angry. I think that, that I, I, I get into

[00:16:08] Christina: Yeah,

[00:16:09] Brett: something’s wrong with me.

[00:16:10] That’s okay though.

[00:16:11] Jeff: I was listening to ABA and the F150 the other

[00:16:13] Christina: day

[00:16:13] Brett: See, I like Abba. That’s here’s the thing about sugar? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can explain this. It’s all about, it’s all about context. If I have the context for something, I can make it enjoyable, which is why I thought if I watched Saturday, Saturday night fever, that I would maybe have context for the BGS.

[00:16:34] And like, it would make sense to me, but Abbo, it comes from a part of my life that was full of drugs and sex. And like, when I hear Abba, I just have nothing but warm feelings and it doesn’t matter what the, the tone of the music is because I have this like emotional context around it. Same with seventies rock, like, uh, I didn’t, I didn’t like any of it until I [00:17:00] had.

[00:17:01] Context for it. Um, context is That’s the key. If it’s not sad and angry, I just need context.

[00:17:08] Christina: That’s fair. I’m gonna link. And again, like your opinion is never gonna change on the BGS, but it would be interesting just, uh, for listeners who might want more backstory a if you can ever find the behind the music about them on any sites or anything. That was great. But B I just found, um, cuz I, one of the, one of the brothers who wasn’t in the BGS, but he was the, the youngest brother actually died of an overdose, but they, they like to, to, to party.

[00:17:32] And there’s this article from rolling stone called, uh, like the, the, the last, um, Barry Gibb, the last brother. And there’s this, um, uh, highlighted thing that I found the Gibbs have always been fond of substances. Barry smoked grass, Robin liked pills and were drank.

[00:17:48] Brett: Yeah.

[00:17:49] Christina: That’s just like Maurice, Maurice. It’s like for the most part, they stayed away from the harder stuff I did a week of cocaine in 1980.

[00:17:56] Something says, give, but the trouble with cocaine, he laughs is cocaine. [00:18:00] You’ve gotta do it every half hour. It’s too much work amphetamine last four to six hours. And in those days he says with a grin, there was some great amphetamines,

[00:18:09] Brett: What was that?

[00:18:09] Jeff: There’s cocaine in the room, turn around. This is not gonna be a fun party.

[00:18:13] Yeah.

[00:18:14] Brett: Okay. That was thanks for revisit that with me. That was nice. Uh,

[00:18:19] Christina: You got it.

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[00:20:16] Christina: Let’s do it.

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[00:21:38] Let’s Get Nerdy

[00:21:38] Brett: I think I think this show’s about to get nerdy. Am am I right?

[00:21:43] Christina: Dirty. Yes. 100% dirty.

[00:21:46] Brett: Can I kick it off by telling you what I wrote this morning?

[00:21:49] Christina: Yes, please do

[00:21:50] Brett: So, so I have this app that a little command line tool called doing that you, that keeps a, a log of everything you’re doing, and it has all these [00:22:00] different ways of displaying your log, your, your data. Um, and you can like filter it by dates and time of day and tags.

[00:22:08] And it get there’s like a there’s every single display command has like at least eight different flags you can use to further filter data. So, uh, what I ended up doing this morning is I added a save flag. So any display command, when you get it to display exactly what you want, you can add minus my is saved to the command and it will save all of those options into a view.

[00:22:36] And create a custom command out of it. So the next time you, you, you, you give it.

[00:22:41] a name and you type save, and then a, a name, and then next time you can just type doing in that name and it’ll show you that preconfigured view.

[00:22:51] Jeff: yes. And.

[00:22:52] Brett: Yeah. I’m super, like, I, I dropped about it last night and then I woke up And.

[00:22:56] I, it in like an hour and it’s the best thing [00:23:00] I’ve added all year.

[00:23:01] Christina: That’s

[00:23:01] Jeff: awesome. I, I just started using doing again last week.

[00:23:05] Brett: Neat.

[00:23:05] Jeff: I love it. I love it. I love it because I, I love to use it when I’m having a productive week, because I can look back and be like, look at everything I did. If I’m, if I’m in shit week, I’m not touching it.

[00:23:18] Brett: I added, uh, I used the tide prompt for Phish, which is, uh, uh, what do you call it? Like, it, it, it refreshes in the background, so there’s no delay. When you like when, when a prompt comes up and I have a, I added a tied item, uh, for doing so if there’s a current doing task, it shows it in my prompt between the left and right prompts, like right.

[00:23:43] in the middle.

[00:23:44] So I always know there’s a task running that I can remember to finish. Yeah. It’s cool.

[00:23:49] Christina: Christina, are you a, are you a Phish person? Um, so, okay. So I, I tried it finally after like Brett talked a lot about it and I really do like it, my issue is [00:24:00] I’m afraid that because it would be something that I realistically won’t be able to have installed on remote machines that I spend a lot of time on.

[00:24:09] I about like mentally having to switch back and forth between like Z shell and fish. Yeah. Um, and I might be able to like, get to that point. I just don’t know if I can. Right. Like I, so it becomes one of those things where like, cuz I’ve only recently gotten finally used to Z shell over bash. And even though they’re, they’re very, very similar obviously.

[00:24:29] And so it becomes one those things I’m like, do I wanna like add in yet another like terminal that I need to know? Mm-hmm , that’s different. And then like muscle memory, if I mess aging into something and it doesn’t have fish installed, like then like I’m gonna have to like, oh right. I do it this way here.

[00:24:47] Brett: That’s just, that’s never been a problem for me. Like as long as I know what shell I’m, I’m in, you know, echo shell, uh, my brain just reconfigures for now. I’m in bash now. I’m in Z shell. Now [00:25:00] I’m in Phish. Now I’m in

[00:25:01] Christina: And maybe it’ll work that way. I mean, maybe it’ll work that way. No, one’s in seashell. Uh, um, I mean, and maybe like, that will be the case. I’m not sure I’ve been playing with it. I like it, but I haven’t, I haven’t gone far down the rabbit hole. I will say I discovered this thing this morning. Fig have either of you used

[00:25:18] Jeff: fig yeah.

[00:25:18] Talk about what

[00:25:19] Brett: tried it out after you tweeted it.

[00:25:22] Christina: Okay. So basic is, um, like. Uh, a, a terminal hider, uh, like, like, um, helper, um, it works with any shell that you want and it runs in the background on your Mac. So it, it is one of those things where like, you have to have like an app running in your, you know, can be hidden, you know, in your menu bar or whatever, but it’s, it’s, uh, kind of like a Damon, I guess, although I guess, like they’re not technically Damons anymore, um, running in the back round, um, that supports a bunch of CLI tools and brings in a lot of really easy completion stuff.

[00:25:54] So rather than necessarily having to configure like a ton of things for. Whatever shell you’re [00:26:00] using and add a bunch of plugins that slow stuff down. Uh, and this is kind of what I wanna play around with and see if there would be something like, if this would be better than having a bunch of plugins or, or not.

[00:26:10] Um, I think in theory, the idea is that it would be, is that it’ll do things like offer like, um, various, you know, like, like completions for, for, um, you know, doing stuff like for files and folders or for doing stuff with NPM or it’s got stuff. Or get, and, and it’s got stuff built in for Kubernetes and Docker and, uh, SSH stuff.

[00:26:30] Like it’s got a ton of different, um, stuff already there brew AWS. Like they’ve got a ton of different like definitions and auto complete things there. Uh, the, uh, the GitHub repo has like 13,000 stars, so there’s a ton of stuff there. Um, and, uh, it’s, uh, it’s crowdsource because people are, are building and, and adding their owns with it, which is kind of cool.

[00:26:53] Um, and it’s completely local, which is nice. Uh, you can even kind of like, you know, build your own thing if you want to use [00:27:00] this type script, which I think is an interesting way of, I guess, kind of building those definitions. I haven’t spent a ton of time it, but I, the way I kind of envision it is that it’s like, okay, you have a lot of these nice things that you would typically have to.

[00:27:14] At this point, basically you need like an entire like shell manager to manage all of your Z shell or, or Phish or whatever plugins. And I think that you could probably accomplish a lot of it with, with fig and then with their long term goal is that they have an API where they’re wanting people to build like apps that you could access within the terminal using fig, which is, is kind of a cool concept.

[00:27:40] Hmm. Yeah, it looks

[00:27:41] Brett: I would have to give it more of a shot. Uh, in initially it did not do a better job than Phish of completion. And it had the downside of popping up, uh, a window while I’m typing that it, it bugged me a little and like, uh, Phish is [00:28:00] completion. Like if I type get, or if I type get add, and I only have one onstage file in the current directory, when I hit tab, it just fills in the one file.

[00:28:10] It knows I need to add, uh, and I, I don’t see fig being able to do that kind of completion.

[00:28:16] Christina: Yeah, no, that’s probably, that’s probably true. Uh, I think that for someone like you, who has things like as performant and as like customized as you are, I would be like, I don’t know. Like, I, I, I feel like this might not be the right tool for you, unless you could build things or really customize it to your liking.

[00:28:31] And in which case, I don’t know if it would be any better than anything you have, but what is nice about it is that you can get completions for stuff because there’s a whole community of, of stuff that you might not be able to have completions for for Phish, like realistically. Right. Like, I, I, I don’t know if anybody is gonna be spending the time to try to do something or even if it would be like possible in, in, in a way to have like an AWS type of, you know, autocomplete setup.

[00:28:55] Brett: Did you know that Phish can scan man pages and create completions [00:29:00] automatically for any CLI you have installed?

[00:29:02] Christina: I did not know that, but that is cool.

[00:29:04] Brett: It is cool.

[00:29:04] Jeff: Did you know that the term man pages is just creepy for me?

[00:29:08] Brett: Yeah. Would, would you alias it to

[00:29:10] Jeff: I just like show,

[00:29:12] Brett: show,

[00:29:12] Jeff: you know,

[00:29:14] Brett: Hey,

[00:29:14] Jeff: but I mean, I might change it to like sparkle or something, you know, just make it a little funer

[00:29:18] Brett: I poured the help command to Phish. So if

[00:29:22] Christina: yeah, yeah.

[00:29:22] Brett: Phish

[00:29:24] Christina: yeah, no, you said that

[00:29:25] Brett: except

[00:29:26] Christina: now works with it.

[00:29:27] Brett: I hooked it up to dash, uh, cuz it internally, if you use help in Phish, it.

[00:29:33] opens a web browser, which I hate, uh,

[00:29:36] Christina: Mm-hmm

[00:29:37] Brett: if you use man on the same command, it’ll load the page as a man page or a show page for Jeff. Um,

[00:29:45] Jeff: Hey, you guys wanna go out and make some man pages?

[00:29:48] Brett: but I overloaded it.

[00:29:49] So now it opens a Phish doc set in dash, which is better to me than a browser tab. So anyway, help now with Phish, [00:30:00]

[00:30:00] Christina: Very cool.

[00:30:00] Brett: did I, we talked about that, right? I don’t have to explain to everyone what help is.

[00:30:05] Christina: No, we talked about help.

[00:30:05] Brett: Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. All right. Have you guys seen, have you seen tail scale?

[00:30:11] Christina: no. Yes. Oh, so cool. Tell, so tell me about, I told you about

[00:30:14] Brett: yeah, I was gonna say, I think, I think that Christine actually told me about it.

[00:30:18] Jeff: Christina, have you seen this thing you

[00:30:20] Jeff and Christina: told

[00:30:20] Christina: me about?

[00:30:21] Brett: I hadn’t, I hadn’t done anything with them until I was going through available packages for my Sonology and I saw tail scale. I’m like, oh yeah, I remember that. Uh, let’s try it out. And so I loaded it up on my Sonology and then loaded it up on my Mac mini and my MacBook pro and my iPhone and my iPad.

[00:30:40] And what it does is basically with one sign on, in my case, I sign on with GitHub, all of those machines. Now, no matter where they are in the world are on a VPN together. And I can, I can SSH and, and load each. I can load my home [00:31:00] Mac minis hard drive in the iOS files app on my phone from anywhere in the world.

[00:31:07] And it is pretty slick. And it’s free to, if you have like a single user account, it’s free to set up. It takes like two minutes. There’s No, configuration. it’s amazing.

[00:31:18] Christina: No, it’s fantastic. And I mean, the reason I suggested it to you before is cuz you were doing something more complicated and less, um, like good, um, with, with your own system so that you could kind of avoid your, your, your VPN thing. And that’s why I suggested it, but no, what’s cool about it too is it’s got a free user plan.

[00:31:35] I did actually mostly cuz I wanted to support them. I’m paying for or the, um, uh, the personal pro plan. They basically only introduced because they wanted to give people who like wanted to give them money, uh, who are enterprises a chance to, but what’s cool is you can add people. Two, like you can share, um, networks and computers with people by just, you know, inviting them kind of to your thing by just, you know, giving them an email address, uh, like by, [00:32:00] by, just by you, you know, uh, doing an email thing, there’s also a way where like, if you have like a GitHub, um, organization, even if it’s like, you know, like between your family, they have a free plan for that to, so, yeah.

[00:32:12] I, I love it. Um, it’s, it’s the best way I’ve seen, like hands down of being able to make it so that you can remotely access all of your different machines. Like you said, your Sonology your Mac, your phone, whatnot. Cause it sets up wire guard and it sets up, you know, the tunneling stuff and, and the other things and it, it does it really, really well.

[00:32:33] Um, I’m a, I’m a big fan, even your, even

[00:32:36] Jeff: your raspberry pie. This

[00:32:37] Christina: is awesome. Yeah. Yeah, it’s fantastic. Um, my friend, Brad, um, works there, Brad, uh, uh, was, uh, at Google for a really long time. And, uh, nineties kids might remember him as the creator of live journal. And, um, he, uh, and he, he went and, and Mim Cassidy, which is honestly, probably, uh, for important.

[00:32:55] Um, and he was on the go team for a long time and, and he he’s working there. And, um, [00:33:00] that was when I first checked it out, cuz I was like, well, any place that Brad goes is gonna be cool. Uh, but I had like no idea, but they’re really great. They actually wrote a post this week that I like that I’ll put in the show notes.

[00:33:11] It’s funny you brought this up about how our, our free plan stays free, which talks a little bit about the philosophy with their free plan, which I really appreciated, like also from a startup perspective, um, They’re not profitable yet, but they’ve taken outside funding. So that’s not really the goal right now.

[00:33:27] Right? Like the goal is to grow and expand and to use the money that people give you not to immediately like, figure out, okay, well, we have to be profitable by this time. Um, but, uh, I don’t know. I like how their there’s stuff and their price scene works like for, for normal, like non enterprise users.

[00:33:46] Because I think that they’re like the perfect example. And this is what they say, say in their blog post of like, if people like what we’re, what they’re using, they will then get their companies to pay for it.

[00:33:58] Brett: Right.

[00:33:59] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:34:00] Which is, which is a real thing. I mean, like, that’s kind of like what, I don’t think Docker executed as well on that, but if Docker had maybe better business plans earlier on, they would’ve done that.

[00:34:08] Mm. Certainly GitHub has done that. Like there are a lot of things out there where yeah. It does kind of come from, starts with, you know, the, the devs who are like, okay, I’m I really like this shit on my own. I, I want like work to have this.

[00:34:22] Brett: We’re not supposed to use Docker and tutorials at Oracle anymore.

[00:34:28] Christina: but oh, because,

[00:34:28] Brett: use virtual box.

[00:34:31] Christina: oh, course what I’m thinking. Oh God, of course. . Oh God. Okay. But virtual box doesn’t even, doesn’t even work on M one max.

[00:34:38] Brett: No,

[00:34:39] Jeff: Uh, does that not work either on M one max? I actually, I would’ve bumped into that soon enough.

[00:34:44] Brett: know, what does though? Docker?

[00:34:46] Christina: What’s that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Soccer does.

[00:34:50] Brett: I did not stop using Docker.

[00:34:55] Jeff: Um, you know, when you said earlier about tail scale, uh, Brett, you said, um, [00:35:00] you can use it, you can, you know, SSH in or get access from anywhere in the world. I realized how meaningless the term from anywhere in the world has become. Right. it’s like, well, I don’t know. I mean, the, like I might be in my garage

[00:35:12] Brett: I’m excited cuz I’m going to Spain. And if I can SSH into my home, many from Spain, I will turn around and give money to tail scale. Of course. I’ll also be curious to see if my, my dynamic DNS setup works. Uh, there’s no reason it shouldn’t, but we’ll see. I have many things to experiment with. I just want to do it from across the ocean.

[00:35:35] Just, just to prove I can.

[00:35:37] Christina: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Um, I mean, I, I can’t speak for your setup, but it’s certainly been those things. Cause I’ve been using tail scale for a while and it’s only improved. And I was actually using it two years ago when I was traveling frequently. And it was one of those things where it was nice. Like if I had a computer, like I had my IAC or whatever at home, um, I didn’t have everything up running then like have the Sonology package then or whatever, but it was one of those things.

[00:35:58] It was like, yep. [00:36:00] I can, I can access this from across the ocean without having to do the other crazy stuff that I used to do. That’s nice.

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[00:36:17] Christina: I would love to tell

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[00:37:13] Brett: Do Tell

[00:37:15] Jeff: I have a many years old snippet cause I’ve been using text expander since like the Clinton administration, right?

[00:37:20] Um, that, uh, that helps me to send records requests when I’m requesting public data. Um, and I do it a lot in one spec, Pacific state, Nebraska for a project I’ve been working on for years and there are three different kinds of records requests I might make. And so I have R R one R R two and R R three, which expand into one of those types and give me all of the sort of blanks I need.

[00:37:47] Like one is just for data. And so I would, you know, fill the part that says what the database name is or whatever, and it makes record requests so easy and wonderful. So anyway,

[00:37:59] Brett: a [00:38:00] huge time saver. Um,

[00:38:01] Christina: it is.

[00:38:02] Brett: You have a real NPR voice when you read, uh, when you read

[00:38:07] sponsor reads. Yeah. No,

[00:38:09] Christina: can, I was gonna say it comes through. That’s awesome.

[00:38:14] Brett: fresh air. Um,

[00:38:16] Jeff: yeah,

[00:38:17] Requirements.txt, But For Relationships

[00:38:17] Brett: okay, so you sent your first tweet in almost a year.

[00:38:21] Christina: No. Yeah.

[00:38:22] Jeff: Well, what, what did I say? 332 day silence. Now that doesn’t include retweets of which there have been not a bazillion, but there have been many more and it doesn’t, it doesn’t include responses, which there aren’t that many, but there was a point around, man. When was it? It was in the midst of, of the aftermath of, of what happened to George Floyd.

[00:38:49] And I mean, him being murdered and the protests here and all of the, um, all of the voices that just like bubbled up. I just kind of, I realized like, oh, I don’t really, [00:39:00] I don’t need to be a voice in this, but I do want to like have a record of this time. And so I’ll retweet things that I want to be my record of this time, basically.

[00:39:11] Um, and, and once I got into that habit, It was like, especially because I was retweeting stuff of such consequence, it became much harder to make a tweet, like I made last night, which is just requirements dot text, but for all new relationships after age 35. Um, and I realized after I wrote that, I’m like, I don’t think I’ve actually just texted something or just tweeted something in like a very long time.

[00:39:38] And I checked and it’s been

[00:39:39] Christina: 332 days. Okay. So I wanna know more about this because this is interesting. Um, and the reason I wanna ask about this is like I’m addicted to Twitter and, and the only way I go off of it is when I, uh, piss off the psycho, ask a DSA who, um, try to docs me fuckers. Um, [00:40:00] yeah, yeah, fuck.

[00:40:01] And I’m a, and I’m, I’m a fucking member, so again, fuck them. Um, yeah. Uh, so the only way I do that is like, if I’m getting like extreme harassment and I’m like, right, I need to just not be online right now. Because, uh, there’s a good friend of mine who she cannot stay off, uh, line when stuff goes down and she’s been the central, uh, she’s been the center of, of several really big like media, Twitter, shit storms in the last couple of weeks.

[00:40:24] And, and I keep like telling her, like, you need to log off, but anyway, I can’t log off unless like, people are, are, are coming at me. So were you ever a big Twitter user? Like, was it ever something you used

[00:40:37] Jeff: frequently? Yeah, I mean, I, I I’ve had my Twitter account since 2007 as a journalist. I used it all the time.

[00:40:43] I usually, if I was working at a news organization or for a project that didn’t have its own Twitter account, I’d always make one and manage it. Um, I’ve always, I mean, I remember I had this memory the other day. I don’t know. Do you remember, like, maybe you can still do this, but in the early days [00:41:00] you could get tweets in, uh, as, as SMS

[00:41:03] Christina: messages?

[00:41:04] Yes, I do. Cause it’s 4 0 4. Oh, that’s right. Yeah. And,

[00:41:07] Brett: like Twitter was built around SMS to start with.

[00:41:10] Christina: It was, it was, I was covering the

[00:41:11] Jeff: Republican convention here. And, um, and that was like the first time I really was using Twitter in a, like, I actually really need to know what’s happening kind of way. Um, and I got, I got such a huge phone bill because of all the texts I got because of all the tweets I was getting on my God flip or whatever.

[00:41:30] Um, anyway, so I, so I’ve never been someone who tweets like multiple times a day. Um, I have my relationship with Twitter has been as a, as a watcher. And as a curator, I love using Twitter. There are obviously so many reasons to hate it. I’m also not a woman and I’m a white man and like a CIS white man. And so like my, the experiences I hear from friends who are not CIS white men, it’s just like Twitter [00:42:00] is an entirely different fucking experience.

[00:42:02] Right. And so for me, I, I do like it as a sort of curation thing as a way of, I like to make lists. I have a lot of private Twitter lists that just make sure that I’m, I’m like kind of curating a set of voices that I wanna be sure I’m hearing and

[00:42:18] Christina: I’m not. Do you, do you use tweet deck? Yeah, I do use tweet deck.

[00:42:21] Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say that’s the way that you can, I was gonna say that’s the only way that lists can work at all with Twitter is if you’re using tweet deck. Yeah,

[00:42:29] Jeff: totally. And so for me, the reason I, I stopped altogether was partly just what was happening in my desire to just not be, um, a voice in that, but to just kind of really look for voices that, that felt really meaningful to me in that time.

[00:42:45] Sure. Um, I wouldn’t say amplify them cuz I’ve only got 1500 followers. Right. But like, but you know, that was the idea. Um, I. I have, I , I had a problem for a long time with Twitter. Facebook was like [00:43:00] this a little bit, but Twitter was like this more where when I tweeted, I felt like I sent a little piece of myself out in the world that having lost that little puzzle piece made me feel a little off all day, uh, in this same way that I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this, but I, for most of my life, if I leave like a dinner party or something, I spend the rest of the night, um, replaying all of the ways in which I’m sure I made an ass of myself.

[00:43:26] Um, or I’m sure I took up too much space or I’m sure I didn’t consider this when I said this thing, like that’s something I struggled with for a really long time. And with Twitter, a similar thing, like once I put, would put a tweet out there, I’d immediately think of all the ways in which. Maybe this isn’t the thing I should have said right now, or whatever, like really kind of obsess over it.

[00:43:46] And it would just steal all of my energy. And so I wanted to become just a strictly a listener, but I’ve done a lot of therapy since then. And last night I just decided maybe I’ll try putting some tweets into the world and not really worry about what it means as long [00:44:00] as I’m not being mean.

[00:44:02] Christina: I like it. I like it.

[00:44:03] And, and, and also, okay. Do you have any suggestions, like what would be in, in, in your, uh, in, in your like requirements dot textile?

[00:44:15] Jeff: you know, what’s funny is that I, I wanted to just give that a lot of deep thought, but I didn’t, and I’m real really wanna ask you guys first, because Brett said you couldn’t have a contributors dot text file until after the third date. Mm-hmm . And for me, I’m not just talking, dating, I’m talking even like friendships, you know?

[00:44:34] Um, because for me, where it came from is like, I’ve had a bunch of new friendships since 35, even since 40, which I didn’t see coming. And I was really excited about it, but I realized just how much work you have to do to go, oh no, you have to understand. I’ve always been like that, you know, like, because you know, you meet in some context, but then you have to kind of explain stuff that you felt like you were done having [00:45:00] to explain to anybody.

[00:45:01] Right?

[00:45:01] Brett: line, one of my requirements text file would be, you have to be okay with not hearing from me for a month and be able to pick back up right where we left off.

[00:45:12] Christina: Hmm. Yeah. I like that. I, and that is a good one. Like, that’s, that’s a good thing for people to know and to be aware of. I think, I feel like that’s both something that I feel like what’s nice about. Like, I like this idea, the requirements dot text is that it’s both letting, preparing people like, okay, this is why I’m gonna need from you.

[00:45:29] But also it’s kind of like, uh, in, in some ways you could, um, You know, set it up for people like this is what you’re gonna get from me too. Right? Like, yeah. Yeah. Like a relationship. Everyone’s exactly like, everyone’s kind of clear about what’s going on here. I like that. Yeah.

[00:45:43] Jeff: I mean, I do. I think it’s a, there’s, it’s a thing to figure out like, cuz I, I didn’t actually think I’d be making new friends after 40.

[00:45:52] I just thought it all, all be pretty locked in. Right. And it’s not been like a Rocky experience at all, but it has been this kind of thing [00:46:00] where it’s like, you can get two years into that friendship and realize, oh, there’s this thing that I took for granted, you already knew about me from like, you know, many, many years ago because everyone knows this about me, but you don’t know it.

[00:46:12] Right. So let’s figure this out. Like, so not like deep secrets.

[00:46:17] Christina: Right. But just like, no, no, totally. But just like things knowing about like, like for me, I’m like, I’m gonna talk a lot. Um, I listen to you, but you can tell me to shut the fuck up and that’s fine, but I I’m gonna talk a lot. Like that’s one of those things that you just kind of need to know that um, no, I think that’s interesting.

[00:46:30] I will say though, And I, and I hope that, that this has not been the case for either of you. And, and I hope that like, especially like you and I, like, we we’re becoming, like, we’re becoming friends, you know, like we’re obviously doing this podcast together, but I really like you. And I really like getting to know you, but I think it’s kind of sad to think that people wouldn’t be making friends after 40.

[00:46:48] Like, I, I hope that that’s not how. Life evolves, you know? Right,

[00:46:53] Jeff: right, right. I don’t know. I was told that that’s what, that would be the case and it just hasn’t been true. So

[00:46:58] Christina: I, [00:47:00] I think that I, I, I will say this. I know for me it is difficult cuz I don’t have kids and I’m not going to have kids mm-hmm and there is a difference, like when your friends all start having kids, they have less time to be able to do things and you do have to work around different sorts of schedules and different sorts of other things.

[00:47:15] And I totally understand that. Um, it is more difficult to make friends, I think, as you’re older, but I feel like having that human connection and being able to meet new people is in some ways more important because you are kind of stuck with that, you know, just the, the same people you’re around, you know?

[00:47:33] Jeff: Totally. Um, yeah. Well, oh,

[00:47:35] Christina: go ahead, Brett.

[00:47:36] Brett: I was gonna say, if, if left to my own devices, I would never meet people cuz I’m not, I don’t go outta my way to like introduce myself to people. But the like the amount of free software and everything that I share leads to some very interesting people reaching out and like thanking me or, or showing me what they’ve been working on.

[00:47:59] And [00:48:00] I feel like I meet new people every week and some of them become like lasting friendships. I have, I have people I’ve known for like seven years now because. They sent me an email one day to thank me for something I wrote and we just became friends. That’s how I met my rabbi. Yeah, Like I, I don’t have to work at it, which is good.

[00:48:18] Cuz if I did, I wouldn’t have any friends.

[00:48:20] Christina: I had this,

[00:48:21] Jeff: the, the thing about being a parent that was, um, really frustrating for me. And if anybody is listening, who is a friend I made through being a parent, if we’re still friends, this doesn’t apply to you. Um, is that there, you know, like Laurel and I used to have a potluck every week at our house, like Thursday nights.

[00:48:40] Like there’s like a core group of people, but anybody can invite anybody. And, and when we first started doing that probably for the first, like six months, there really wasn’t anybody with kids. I mean, we had a kid. But it, we weren’t the type of people that like only talked about kids when we had a kid kind of thing.

[00:48:57] Right. And, and there were people that were single, [00:49:00] there were people that were recently divorced or like in a new relationship or whatever, at a certain point, our potluck became mostly people with kids and those kids were there. And the whole thing came about this environment that was, you know, filled with kids, lovely, wonderful kids.

[00:49:18] And all of a sudden it wasn’t about just being grownups in a room together. And for, and we ended up kind of stopping the pot cuz it just didn’t feel good. And so like my, I had a sort of, I had to add a package to my requirements back meant. Right. Which is just like, Hey, if we met because we’re parents I’m down with talking about, what’s hard about being a parent or what’s wonderful about it, but like we are not gonna meet just to sort of.

[00:49:44] Share around the fact that we both have a kid, like I need adult conversation interaction

[00:49:52] Christina: anyway. Yeah, no, no. I, I think you’re right. And, and I hear that from my friends who have kids too, that they’re like, I need this, I need more of those things. I think it’s [00:50:00] important. It’s interesting. There have been some attempts.

[00:50:02] I think it’s some of the, the dating apps have done like friendship type finder things. I wonder how well that works because I wouldn’t be, I would be open to using that sort of thing. I think it’d be especially good for people who go to new cities. My fear with it would be to be completely candid. I almost wonder if it needs to be a completely separate brand would be that people would just, you would still have people who are like using it, thinking they’re gonna they’re they’re gonna fuck.

[00:50:23] Right. Right. Like it, you know, like, like you, you don’t know that, but I do feel like.

[00:50:29] Jeff: What would that package be called? What would the package, the we’re not necessarily gonna fuck package be called. Hmm. I’ll think of

[00:50:36] Christina: it.

[00:50:37] Torah Portion

[00:50:37] Christina: yeah. Yeah. Think about it. Um, I, you, when you mentioned your, your rabbi, uh, Brett and this’ll actually, I think be a really good, um, segue into us talking about the apps that we’re thankful for.

[00:50:46] The best thing that I read online this week was this article in, um, input, uh, called, um, his software saying the words of God, then it went silent and it is, um, By, um, um, [00:51:00] SI Rosenbaum and it is about a piece of software called trope trainer, which, um, uh, people would use when they were training, like for their bar or their bot mitzvah.

[00:51:10] And, and so it would, you know, kind of teach the Torah and, and Hebrew and things like that. And it was beloved by the people who used it. And it had a single developer who, um, was kind of an interesting, uh, guy he had, uh, kind of, uh, joined Orthodox Judaism, um, after being in a more, um, uh, I guess like, you know, like, um, uh, what’s

[00:51:33] Brett: Reform.

[00:51:33] Christina: having reform.

[00:51:34] Yeah. He he’d been more reform and, and he, uh, you know, uh, became more Orthodox, but he was a gay man and had previously, I think, kind of dabbled in some other kind of like, uh, more esoteric, you know, religions and things like that. He was a really interesting guy that was a software developer and he died.

[00:51:51] And when he died, uh, because he was the sole developer of the software. The software basically went under because no one had a copy of the source code or, or, [00:52:00] or anything. Um, and at this point, the 32 bit versions only exist. And so like the, the windows version only works on windows seven. Um, although I’m actually in touch with some people right now, trying to see if there are some, uh, modifications that some of the windows people can make to it work better on windows 10 and windows 11.

[00:52:18] Um, and the 32 version, um, on Macs obviously will only work on, you know, um, uh, versions prior to, uh, uh, I guess Catalina and, um, uh, below, um, and, and obviously won’t work on, on our max. And so, but a lot of people, it, there used to be an, the iOS app and that, that is no longer on the store. And, and it’s just kind of is this really sad and kind of interesting story about how much this app is meant to people and people’s attempts at trying to kind of salvage it and, and, and keep it and whatnot, and kind of the search for who this person was, but it’s, it’s an incredibly powerful story.

[00:52:55] And I, I thought about it. Um, I, I would’ve, I think I would’ve mentioned it [00:53:00] regardless because it’s just a fantastic read, but it really got me thinking, especially since we’re talking about like our software gratitude, stuff like that, there are these things. And also, I think it makes sense to when we’re talking about like relationships, like there are these, these people and these things is in your life that sometimes you don’t know how important they are to you until they’re not available anymore.

[00:53:20] Brett: Yeah. That’s

[00:53:21] Jeff: it makes me wonder, it makes me wonder if either of you, you know, in GitHub you can designate somebody who would essentially, um, Uh, would get control of your, your repos and your GitHub account if you

[00:53:33] Christina: died. I think they do have that feature. I don’t know if it’s like for individual stuff, but I think on for per project, things I think is actually a feature where, where for orgs or whatever, where you can designate like a, a next of, you know, like in, in, in case of death thing, cuz that’s happened before.

[00:53:47] We’re really important projects, a main maintainer has died and it’s been like literally like a hit by a bus thing. Yeah. And you know, what, what do you do? So I think there is like a governance thing there, but it’s a, I think that’s an [00:54:00] important reminder. What’s so sad about this particular case is that, um, his, uh, his husband, um, I think had maybe sold the computer doesn’t know where it was, but hadn’t really talk contact with people.

[00:54:11] So it doesn’t seem like it’s likely that anyone will be able to track down. The computer, he had to even get his, his source code, which, which is really, really unfortunate. Um, so the best thing I think that chance we have is probably working at, okay, what can we do from an archival standpoint? Or what can maybe, you know, people working internally at Microsoft do to, to make the, the software at flags to make it work better, um, on, on newer operating systems, macOS, it’s, it’s a lost cause.

[00:54:41] But, um, I was, I was, well, it, you know, cuz they don’t care about that sort of thing. Yeah. Um, but I was turned onto this because of a person I, I follow on Twitter had mentioned to me. A few minutes back that they were still running VMs, like for, for 32 bit apps. And cuz I, I had asked the question, I was like at this point, you know, [00:55:00] I, I, I, I could only think like that the most, you know, like ridiculous edge cases of why you would still have like a VM running to run a 32 bit Mac app.

[00:55:08] Like I could see that there might be a reason, but I would only see like the edge cases. And someone mentioned that there he was running one solely for, um, a specific app and he told me, um, after the story came out of, this was the app that he still has a VM to run. Whoa. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, anyway, it it’s kind of a sad thing, but it also is.

[00:55:30] I think there’s, it’s kind of affirming to, in a sense, just to see how many people cared about this piece of software. So totally. I highly recommend people read it. It’s it’s a long read. Um, I, uh, I’ll be honest. My, a very good friend of mine works at input as their reviews editor, but I, I didn’t expect this type of story, um, from them, like this is it’s, it’s exceptional.

[00:55:50] It would’ve been good at any outlet on and kudos to input for, um, you know, taking the pitch. Um, and, um, because it’s, uh, it’s one of those things where [00:56:00] it is far away, the best thing I read all week. That’s awesome.

[00:56:04] Brett: I was slightly distracted cuz I started reading it and you’re right. It’s very it’s it’s gripping.

[00:56:10] The Grapptitude List

[00:56:10] Brett: Um, so, uh, we, we brought up the idea last week of, uh, like a gratitude list for absent indie developers. And uh, I, I made a, I made a long list. I know you guys put some stuff together and I was thinking it would be kind of a fun, uh, we have mental health corn at the beginning and we have, uh, whatever we want to call a, a, a aptitude list, um, at the end. Um, and just like, w we could just do one, maybe two, but like one each I think uh,

[00:56:44] Christina: oneish, I love

[00:56:45] Brett: and we can make it a weekly thing and highlight some of our favorite apps and developers.

[00:56:50] Jeff: Here’s my question. Can it be a single developer or a single app? Because I have an, I have two [00:57:00] developers in mind and one of them, it’s just, it’s kind of a Brett turf just situation where it’s like check out these five crazy ass things,

[00:57:07] Christina: you know?

[00:57:07] Brett: developer or it.

[00:57:08] can be one app or who fucking cares. Cuz there are no rules.

[00:57:13] Christina: Yeah.

[00:57:14] Brett: whatever, whatever, whatever you think fits you’re right.

[00:57:19] Christina: I love it. I love

[00:57:20] Brett: Do you wanna go first, Jeff?

[00:57:21] Christina: Yeah,

[00:57:22] Jeff: I’ll go first. Um, so the first developer I wanted to express gratitude to is, um, his name is Anish atalier. I think atalier is how. Anisha’s last name is pronounced and I hope I got it right. It’s a grad student at MIT who has written a number of, kind of amazing tools. I mean, actually there’s only about five tools of all of his tools or apps or utilities that I actually even understand.

[00:57:50] Um, but he’s, he created something called.bot, which we’ve talked about before, which is basically a way of like bootstrapping your dot files. Yep. [00:58:00] Um, I actually just recently used.bot when switching over everything to my, um, new M one laptop and it was amazing how beautifully it worked. Um, but he also has, he has this app called lumen.

[00:58:14] That’s amazing that basically like. It’s a, so it’s a menu bar application for Macs that, that sets the screen brightness based on your screen contents. And so on the one hand it’s doing this like pretty basic understandable stuff of like, if you’re in a, a black terminal, then it’s gonna, you know, like it’s gonna adjust its that way.

[00:58:33] Or if you have a full screen white screen, it’s gonna bring down, but it can also learn what you do when you get to a certain type of app. If you go and you, you know, say make it less bright or make it more bright. Um, and it’s, it’s something you can brew install. You can just brew, install lumen. Um, and it’s so fricking cool.

[00:58:51] And then, so there’s dot bot. There’s lumen. He has something called Periscope that I’m only just starting to play with, but it’s been you in my queue [00:59:00] forever. He, the way he says it is, it gives you duplicate vision to help you organize and de duplicate your files without losing data. It’s just a really smart way of finding and dealing with duplicates.

[00:59:12] And I have this problem. Massively. And so I’ve been waiting for a while until I had kind of the presence of mind to try to apply this to my, uh, dumpster fire situation. Um, and so there’s that piece. And then the last thing I wanted to say that he does this thing called seashells, which like lets you pipe output from command line programs to the web in real time.

[00:59:36] Oh, that’s cool. And it’s so fun to play with. Uh, and so anyway, that’s, that’s what Anish does. Um, the, the second developer is just, uh, not just is a, a fellow named Christopher Gross. Who’s a, he’s a journalist he’s worked for news organizations forever. He currently works for I 38. Um, he’s a developer, I’ve used one [01:00:00] of his tools for more than a decade.

[01:00:03] It’s called CSV kit. And it’s just a way of, of interacting with either Excel spreadsheets or CSV files and doing all kinds of just. Awesome analysis and audits of that file without ever having to crack it. And for me, when I discovered this, I was doing a lot of data journalism with, with government files, which just meant a lot of just totally bananas, Excel files.

[01:00:28] Yep. Um, and, and Christopher, because he was working at the time for the Chicago Tribune and. Team. He, he just like, he knew all of the ways in which you could encounter craziness in an Excel file. And he accounted for that by stitching together a whole bunch of tools. It’s a Python based utility and, uh, and, and making this thing CSV kit, and it continues to be awesome and super useful to me, I’ve script it.

[01:00:53] I’ve used it in scripts. It’s just lovely. And the other thing he did that I really, really recommend is he was [01:01:00] working at courts and he made the courts guide to bad data. Nice. And it is, he’s got like, he’s got Brett, you’re such a great writer of documentation and kind of describing things, gross cough has that similar thing.

[01:01:14] Like he’s just very he’s. He is someone I have called the Brett Terpstra of, of news nerds to you, Brett. Um, but anyway, those are the two I wanted to highlight today. Just do wonderful work that, um, get me excited and, and make me wanna play computers.

[01:01:30] Brett: Will you throw some links in the show notes for us?

[01:01:32] Christina: I did they’re at the bottom.

[01:01:34] Brett: Oh, that makes sense. Cuz that’s where the whole gratitude list is.

[01:01:37] Jeff: You know, it put the gratitude at the bottom. That’s what they always say. That’s what all the Notah books told

[01:01:43] Christina: me.

[01:01:43] Brett: All right, Christina, what app slash developers are you?

[01:01:47] Christina: I I’m, I’m I’m gonna do one. Um, because I, uh, I, I did, I, I didn’t think enough for, for two. Um, I mean, I could talk about more, but the one I wanna focus on is, uh, kaleidoscope, which, um, we’ve talked about [01:02:00] before. Uh, but they just released a new version this week, um, and, uh, co kaleidoscope, uh, for people who aren’t familiar is a diff tool for Mac that has had a really complicated, like backstory in terms of who owned it.

[01:02:12] It was originally, um, created by, uh, sofa or designed by sofa who, uh, also made versions, which at the time was like the prettiest, like SVN client back when people still used SVN. And, um, and I think they, they might have done something else too. And, uh, Facebook acquired them and then they sold their apps.

[01:02:31] Uh, like I, they actually, then I think that team went on to design Facebook paper, if anyone remembers that, um, then, um, they, they sold it to, uh, I think it was, uh, it was black, uh,

[01:02:41] Brett: My pixel.

[01:02:42] Christina: black pixel, um, which is no longer around and black pixel kept it going for, for a while. Um, but, but didn’t, and, and updated it, like, I think like they gave it like one big kind of update and, and that was kind of it, like, they, they did some bug fixes, but that was kind of it.

[01:02:56] Then it sold to someone else briefly who didn’t really [01:03:00] do anything with it. And then finally, um, It’s a long time Mac developers, uh, acquired it last at the end of last year and released a really big, uh, 3.0, um, update. And, um, I’ve been really impressed with it. I, I bought it. I will admit, you know, I never expected to spend that much on a dif tool.

[01:03:20] And I, and I don’t know if yeah, that’s 150 bucks. Yeah. And I do don’t know if it’s one of those things that most people could justify buying to be completely honest with you, because I feel like most dip tools, uh, for what most people use them for, uh, get lens or, or, or things that are built into other

[01:03:34] Brett: merge. Yeah.

[01:03:35] Christina: file merge beyond compare.

[01:03:37] Like there, there are, uh, uh, other other tools out there that I think that, um, can, can get a lot of, of what’s done done for, for less money. However, I wanted to support the devs. They’ve continued to update it. One of the things I always liked about the zap was the fact that you could compare not just.

[01:03:57] Text files or other sorts of, of data files, but even [01:04:00] images and other stuff. And, and it makes it really easy to, to do that. And, um, they just released, um, their, their newest version has, um, a, a safari, um, extension within developer tools, as well as the vs code extension, which is nice. And, and they’ve been making solid updates and, and adding solid features.

[01:04:16] And so I want this to work out for them, you know, like again, they’re also not doing a subscription thing, which would be probably the smarter thing to do when you launch, um, essentially a net new app in this way. Um, and, and it’s hard to take an app that has had three different owners and who has a loyal user base, but also.

[01:04:37] you know, you, you wanna, you wanna revive it, but you, you know, like how much do you change? How do you not? Like, I feel like they balanced it really well. And so I wanna give them, um, a gratitude because even if you’re not in a position to spend $150 on a dip tool, which I totally understand, I’m glad that somebody is making apps like this still for the Mac, because it’s rare that we see people who are still putting this much effort and, and [01:05:00] frankly like taking like on the risk of, of making this sort of investment in, in the platform.

[01:05:05] So

[01:05:06] Brett: So

[01:05:06] here’s the coolest thing about that new safari extension they added you can, it, it adds, uh, a chaos diff I think is the command that it adds to the debugger. And then you can add break points and attach it as an event so that every time it loops through, uh, it can open up another, uh, tab in the diff window and you can choose which, and you can compare any, any, you can compare any iteration of an object of any JavaScript object.

[01:05:36] In yourif tool. It’s really slick.

[01:05:39] Christina: That’s so cool.

[01:05:40] Jeff: It, it looks amazing. Poor, poor, little orphan, happy like Jesus, how many different parents has this thing had. That is very sad and it’s wonderful to see it in such great care

[01:05:52] Brett: It’s great to see a foster kid succeed.

[01:05:55] Jeff: and I’m actually downloading the free trial right now. [01:06:00] I am really hoping I have been wanting to do some D work on different translations of, of Toto novels.

[01:06:08] Oh, cool. done it before, but, uh, I wasn’t satisfied with the results. So I’ll try this one on here.

[01:06:15] Brett: that is quite the undertaking.

[01:06:17] Jeff: lovely. Some Toto.

[01:06:19] Brett: All right. Um, I will, I guess, gotta go with better touch tool since for, for our inaugural, our inaugural aptitude list. Um, better touch tool is the thing that I use every day, all day. And I, after text expander, it’s the first app. I notice if it’s missing, like, I, I, I have so many shortcuts and if I hold down control and option and whatever, whatever window is under my mouse moves, I don’t have to like go up and grab the toolbar or anything.

[01:06:54] I just hold control, option and move. And, and I move the window and little things like that becomes so [01:07:00] ingrained for me that I immediately, I immediately fumble if it’s not running.

[01:07:06] Christina: Hmm. Yeah.

[01:07:08] Brett: Plus he’s, he’s, he’s he’s a man after my own heart. The developer,

[01:07:14] Christina: Yes.

[01:07:14] Brett: Andreas. Yeah. He, he just, he adds like right now, he is, got a whole bunch of stuff for the notch.

[01:07:20] Uh, he did a bunch of stuff for the touch bar. He even has like, uh, screen, uh, well, what’s the stream deck stuff coming

[01:07:29] Christina: Oh,

[01:07:29] Brett: like

[01:07:29] Christina: he? That’s exciting

[01:07:30] Brett: Yeah. Anything that you can hack, he, he hacks into it and it’s, it’s like a, it’s a love child. and, and I love it.

[01:07:39] Jeff: love

[01:07:39] Brett: And it’s on, it’s on, uh

[01:07:42] Christina: thumbs up.

[01:07:43] Brett: Yeah, it’s on setup.

[01:07:44] Jeff: Awesome. Yeah, it is. So I have just been amazed at how that that tool just sticks around and sticks around and keeps adding things. And it’s like the quiet little power monster in the corner.

[01:07:56] Brett: Yeah.

[01:07:57] Christina: 100%. That was fun.

[01:07:59] Brett: Yeah. I [01:08:00] I think we should make a habit of this. We have so many apps to talk about.

[01:08:05] Christina: We do. And I love it. And, and I love in great name. Um, uh, Brett.

[01:08:09] Brett: I think it’s actually a horrible name, but it’s just horrible enough that it might work.

[01:08:13] Jeff: Aptitude. No, I think you gotta really hit the G.

[01:08:17] Brett: Yeah, exactly. You don’t want to it’s otherwise it’s crap and you don’t want that.

[01:08:21] Christina: Yeah. Aptitude. Yeah. I love it. That’s awesome.

[01:08:26] Brett: All right. Hey, that was a, I’m gonna call it an O K episode. I feel like I was really off.

[01:08:33] Christina: You feel like you were off?

[01:08:35] Brett: Yeah.

[01:08:35] This in here. This is our, this is our post mortem live on the air. I feel like I was kind of edgy and, and talking over people cuz I wasn’t patient. I feel like I need some sleep.

[01:08:47] Jeff: Well, that’s sleep is, you know, that’s, someone’s about to tell you to get some,

[01:08:53] Brett: Do you wanna.

[01:08:53] Christina: sleep boys. see,

[01:08:56] Jeff: get some sleep.

[01:08:57] Brett: Kids.[01:09:00]