276: The Bee Gees Were a Great Band

Jeff officially joins the Overtired team and immediately launches into a debate on the validity of the Bee Gees as a band. Also, Young Earth Creationism, Satanic Panic, and coming to terms with Sammy Hagar.

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Overtired 276

[00:00:00] Brett: Hey, Hey, Hey there listeners, um, I’m Brett Terpstra. You’re listening to overtired. I’m here with Christina Warren as always, but special announcement. You guys remember Jeff Severns Gunzel from movies such as the last three episodes. We have decided to make Jeff a permanent member of the over-tired crew.

[00:00:28] It is now it is now an overtired throttle, which I mean, it kind of, so like the, the theme song goes tired. So tired over-tired, which is three. Like by the time you get to oversight, it’s it’s three of us. And like, it was always meant to be, this was meant to happen. So welcome, Jeff.

[00:00:47] Jeff: Thank you. I’m honored. I’ve had so much fun talking with you all, and it’s been like a nice, a nice sort of, um, change in the, the rhythm of my, of my weeks.

[00:00:56] Brett: would you, would you say therapeutic because that’s what we’re [00:01:00] going.

[00:01:00] Jeff: No, it has been Therapedic. I mean, the first, the last episode, like I was in a bad space that week and, and that conversation really just kind of jolted me out of it. And the similar thing happened the next time. So I find that it’s I find that

[00:01:14] Brett: when I contacted Jeff to say, Hey, this thing just happened and I lost two and a half hours of our audio. And I basically wasted your weekend. Jap was like, oh, cool, redo. I need a redo. He was excited.

[00:01:31] Christina: me that honestly, I was going to say that was the thing that made me think. I was like, oh, he’s one of us, because I was like, I mean, I, I said, okay, well we’ll, we’ll do it again. But in my mind, I’m like, there’s no way Jeff is going to want to come back after.

[00:01:46] Jeff: No, it wasn’t a waste at all.

[00:01:47] It’s like Kevin, a good dinner party. And then being like, oh man, we forgot to record it. Can we do another one? It’s like,

[00:01:52] Brett: You record your dinner party.

[00:01:54] Jeff: I do have a dinner

[00:01:56] Brett: Remind me not to go to Jeff’s dinner parties. [00:02:00] Oh my God. I haven’t.

[00:02:01] Jeff: consensual.

[00:02:02] Brett: have embarrassed myself so many times at dinner parties. Those never come out with me feeling good about

[00:02:08] Jeff: Oh, I know it was my fear about doing a podcast like this. It’s just like, wait a minute. So that means it’s like a dinner party every week and those don’t always end well for me.

[00:02:19] Brett: So, Christina, how’s your mental health?

[00:02:21] Christina: Um, and that’s too bad. Um, I, um, it’s been an interesting week and, um, I don’t know, my, my, my ADHD is feeling kind of off the charts, but other than that, my mental health is pretty good.

[00:02:35] Jeff: How about you?

[00:02:36] Brett: I, uh, I am clearly depressed even though I’ve actually been functioning at what I consider to be a pretty normal level. I am currently convinced that Victor and Aaron hate me. Like they hate me. And I think even you and Jeff, uh, are making fun of me. And that is

[00:02:56] Jeff: we are well, yeah, but not like on the podcast,

[00:02:59] Brett: [00:03:00] That is a clear, it is a clear sign of depression for me when I feel like the world is out to get me and everybody hates me and, and it gets dark.

[00:03:10] So I’m, I guess I’m, I’m depressed. I’m looking forward to, I’m almost to the point where I can start my Vyvanse again. Uh, get back on my ADHD stimulant. I’ve been treating my ADHD with lion’s mane and saffron, which is not terribly effective. It’s not great. Um, I think that saffron and lion’s mane are great additions to stimulants, but they do not replace stimulants.

[00:03:42] Jeff: Uh,

[00:03:43] Christina: no, because I’m going to be controversial here and you’re going to definitely disagree with me, but a large part of, of like, um, homeopathy or whatever

[00:03:53] Jeff: is bullshit.

[00:03:54] Brett: I, yeah, no, there’s a line though, between homeopathy and like [00:04:00] actual like supplements that have undergone FDA studies, which, which the reason I’m taking saffron is because of a study, not peer reviewed to be clear, not peer reviewed,

[00:04:12] Jeff: Okay. So it’s not a real study.

[00:04:13] Brett: uh, it is no, a study is real. It’s just not reliable until peer reviewed.

[00:04:20] So, and, and there may be more that comes out in the future. And, and basically I’m taking, I’m taking saffron because there was a study that showed promise and what can it hurt to take saffron? Um, but I can absolutely say it is not a replacement for stimulants, for ADHD.

[00:04:42] Jeff: Man.

[00:04:43] Brett: I don’t disagree with you though.

[00:04:44] Homeopathy as, as a pseudoscience,

[00:04:48] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:04:49] Brett: I do not agree with I,

[00:04:51] Jeff: I’m not starting my official first episode going down this

[00:04:55] Brett: as Vic, as Victor, as Victor would say, I give no quarter to [00:05:00] homeopathy. I can’t remember what came up. We were talking about someone who like some corporation that, that indirectly, uh, supported the, don’t say gay legislation that just happened. And, and his response was I give no quarter to those people.

[00:05:22] Jeff: Thus ruining a perfectly fine led Zepplin. Uh,

[00:05:26] Brett: Is that a led Zeppelin song? No

[00:05:28] Jeff: No quarter Yeah.

[00:05:29] Brett: I’m unfamiliar. My, my, my experience with led Zeppelin is so there was a, I can’t remember what band did kill the BGS. Um,

[00:05:42] Jeff: I don’t know. I don’t

[00:05:43] Christina: either, but the beaches were a great band.

[00:05:46] Brett: No they weren’t. Um,

[00:05:48] Jeff: Great

[00:05:49] Brett: no, no, no. The BG disco in general,

[00:05:53] Jeff: back to

[00:05:54] Brett: every, okay. Okay. So back to homeopathy,

[00:05:57] Jeff: kidding. I’m just going to the accident. It looks like the name of the band is [00:06:00] the accident.

[00:06:00] Brett: um, uh, the accident. Yes. I had that seven inch and then I discovered screeching weasels. I hate led Zepplin. And I actually heard that the only led Zepplin I had heard before that was actually a cover band. I think they were called dead Zeplin,

[00:06:19] Jeff: Dread

[00:06:19] Brett: dreads, Zeplin that, and like, that was the extent of my exposure to led Zeppelin was through a cover like parody band of

[00:06:28] Jeff: Got it. That makes sense.

[00:06:30] Brett: So I come from, I come, like I grew up without rock and roll. My first music was my first music was heavy metal, which I had to listen to until my parents would like burn my CDs. And then, and then I got into punk rock and punk rock was very anti, like seventies rock. Like that was a common theme of like anti high seventies rock.

[00:06:56] Jeff: except it turns out that mostly the people making the most influential punk [00:07:00] rock were huge seventies

[00:07:01] Christina: rock fans. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was like, most of them were like, they that’s what they grew up on.

[00:07:06] Jeff: So once it, once

[00:07:07] Brett: songs, like I hate led Zepplin and kill the BGS right now,

[00:07:12] Jeff: oh, my God. I could never, I could never get, I could never, I could never, uh, this is not a hill. I’ll die on. Like, even when I was into punk rock, like all the little, like, you must hate this, you must hate this. Like, I couldn’t, I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t get in. Couldn’t get involved in the Vetter versus Cobain thing.

[00:07:31] That seemed absurd to me. They’re just two people. And now that I’m old, they were two adolescent just barely out of that adolescents.

[00:07:38] Brett: I’m going to call it right now. This episode title is going to be the BJ’s were a great band. I feel like, I feel like that is the title of

[00:07:46] Christina: I mean, look, well, look, I’m just saying objectively, if you look at the songwriting of Barry Gibbs, if you look at like them as pop songs, like the, the, the Saturday night fever soundtrack is objective, really fucking great.

[00:07:57] Jeff: Oh yeah.

[00:07:59] Brett: Oh my God. I can’t, [00:08:00] I can’t disagree more

[00:08:02] Jeff: Wow.

[00:08:03] Brett: we can agree on, on like the songwriting prowess of Taylor swift, but I cannot agree to disco in any way being good. It just goes against every fiber

[00:08:13] Jeff: zoomed out. You’ve just zoomed out to a whole genre though.

[00:08:16] Christina: Exactly it, because we could, because the thing is, is that I, they, they get the credit of popularizing disco, but if you really listen to the beaches, like, especially the Saturday night fever album, this is a pop album

[00:08:29] Brett: Are you guys going to make me do a deep dive?

[00:08:31] Christina: Yeah. Honestly, you.

[00:08:32] should listen to the fucking music of the GIP brothers. It’s good shit. Like they’re, they’re Australian. They’re great.

[00:08:38] Brett: I hate you.

[00:08:39] Jeff: and pretend, pretend you’ve never heard of anything called disco or the BGS or anything that came before after, and just do the, do the Buddhist beginner’s mind with the

[00:08:49] Christina: BJ’s also,

[00:08:51] Jeff: I mean,

[00:08:51] Brett: hate you. You’re going to change my worldview and I hate you.

[00:08:54] Christina: even if you just listened to other people, covering their songs, Um, like that, that’s how, you.

[00:08:59] know, [00:09:00] similar to Taylor swift.

[00:09:00] That’s how, you know how it’s like a really good song when people can, cover in a completely different style.

[00:09:05] Jeff: Yeah. There’s a good,

[00:09:06] Brett: can agree on this. Like covers covers are. Covers are often better than the original and the fact that someone sees enough value in something to cover it in their own style absolutely gives credence to it. So what are the BGS covers? I should be listening to,

[00:09:24] Jeff: Okay. So Jeff

[00:09:25] Christina: just mentioned the Feist cover. Um,

[00:09:29] Jeff: well, I, well, while you’re, while you’re thinking on that, I want to challenge your premise. Brett. Why, why on earth? Does the fact that someone covered something give credence to,

[00:09:37] it? Like there are whole bands where all they do is play covers, like dread Zeplin doesn’t make me like led Zeppelin.

[00:09:43] You know what I mean? Like.

[00:09:45] Brett: shouldn’t they like

[00:09:47] Jeff: No, it wasn’t. No, it’s like okay. Some dudes, you know, who probably live in a really stinky two bedroom apartment together, uh, came up with a funny idea.

[00:09:57] Brett: going to, share a Spotify playlist in our [00:10:00] show notes of,

[00:10:01] Jeff: love a good cover though. If we can just, if I just want to say that I love a good cover, especially when someone brings themselves to it.

[00:10:09] Brett: I have a playlist called it’s it’s titled perfunctory birthday playlist because I’m constantly adding it to it. And

[00:10:15] Jeff: Is that a funk? Is it a funk playlist?

[00:10:17] Brett: it’s no it’s perfunctory. The, the only time that me and my friends get together every year is for my birthday. And it’s not a selfish thing. I’m just the only person who cares enough.

[00:10:32] About their birthday to try to bring people together. So, uh, we have, we have about six friends and we get together for my birthday and I have a playlist that is on in the background and it is 100% covers of songs that people might not like in the original format, but the covers are better than the songs.

[00:10:55] And it includes Taylor swift. It includes Nirvana. It includes [00:11:00] Mia like everything that has ever been covered where right. Oh my God. Okay. So I w I will link this playlist. There’s a cover of, um, all I want to do is,

[00:11:13] Jeff: oh yeah.

[00:11:15] Brett: um, it’s in there and it is, it is better than the original, and it will get stuck in your head even more than the original. And I love Mia, but these are covers. These are covers that compete with the original version. Including the, the much alive maligned and rightfully so Ryan Adams, like it’s in there because those covers were pretty phenomenal.

[00:11:42] Christina: No, they are fantastic. Uh, and, and I, and it was, we talked about this six years ago, but it was, it was sort of frustrating in one sense that there was a certain contingent, a lot of people who then became big Taylor swift, like supporters and fans when she did folklore and evermore, which to be clear are fantastic albums, but this was [00:12:00] the same sort of people who, as soon as Ryan Adams covered 1989, they were like, oh wow.

[00:12:04] This stuff is really good. And it’s like, okay. Cause I’m with Jeff on this, like, look as like a young. The teenager. I was certainly kind of that pretentious asshole, but where were you? You think you have to hate certain things? Yeah, but, but my purse, but my personal thing has always been, like, I think that I’m probably the epitome of like high, low, like I’m both highbrow and lowbrow.

[00:12:27] Like I like really basic sometimes even gaudy shit stuff, like stuff like the, the BGS, who, again, to be clear, I fucking great band, but I also like some of the really like, like the, the good, like the stuff that everyone agrees to is like intellectual and smart and that, that you should like, but I like the mixture of the two

[00:12:48] Brett: When I heard, when I heard dreads Zeppelin’s version of stairway, I thought that’s a good hook. Like that’s a, that’s a pretty good song. And I don’t remember what their [00:13:00] lyrics to it were. But when I heard the original, I was like, oh, now I see where they were coming from. And it was good. And cashmere like blew my mind.

[00:13:11] When I heard cashmere, I had heard samples of cashmere and other songs.

[00:13:17] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:13:18] Brett: But when I heard the original, like there was a holy shit moment for me. And as much as I had been preconditioned to hate Zeplin, cashmere and stairway are phenomenal songs. And I cannot argue with that,

[00:13:33] Christina: No they are. And, and like that, that music is all like, it’s best like the one, um, I would say that,

[00:13:40] other than like prog rock, like the, the, uh, and, and disco, which is pop, like the, the era that I have, like the biggest hole in my music, like history, catalog, whatever is the seventies. Um,

[00:13:54] Jeff: I

[00:13:54] Brett: weird because the nineties were all about the seventies.

[00:13:57] Christina: they were, but I think what it [00:14:00] is, is yes, as, as we, as we’ve discussed, I think the reason for me that it is, is that that was the.

[00:14:06] Like my parents, um, my mom has much more eclectic and open-minded tastes than my dad. My dad’s tasted music is, is basically stuck in like the early 1960s. Although he does like rod Stewart and stuff like that, my dad has pretty shitty taste in music to be honest. And, um, like they, so, so the sort of music that they were, then my sister was born in, I at the, uh, independence in 76.

[00:14:31] So the music that they were listening to then became kind of like kid music. Um, and then I’m, I’m born, you know, at 83. And so. I, um, you know, which is a completely kind of different era at that point, like MTB and whatnot. So my whole cultural kind of aspect, like I just, I got into music in, in, in the early nineties.

[00:14:55] Um, but kind of leading up to that, all of my influences were, you know, Michael Jackson and [00:15:00] Cindy lopper and Madonna and, and I never had any of the seventies stuff. And then when I got into more rock music, yes, it was, it was influenced by the seventies, but I didn’t listen to that stuff. So I have a huge hole in my like personal catalog, um, about anything I would say past like 1969. like, I I really like it. It’s, uh, it’s like there, I have little drips and drabs, but honestly that’s something I probably should rectify because

[00:15:28] Jeff: I don’t have it.

[00:15:29] Brett: like, I get that as someone who grew up without any rock music, other than Elvis, Elvis was somehow okay. In hers and this, this is going to lead down a dark path. So we should do a sponsor break before things get dark, because I’m about to talk about my childhood.

[00:15:47] Christina: yeah. And, and, and why you stormed out of breakfast this morning, right.

[00:15:49] Brett: Yes.

[00:15:51] Christina: Okay. But speaking of music, and actually this is a great segue.

[00:15:54] Brett: God. It is it’s perfect.

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[00:15:56] Christina: you know, if you’re looking, um, to, to try to [00:16:00] like list a good way of listening to music, you obviously need some earbuds. And so a lot of people didn’t even make resolutions this year.

[00:16:08] And can you believe that it’s already March and you know what, like we get it, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t still find a way to shake things up, whether it’s by switching up your workout routine or going someplace new, but whatever your challenge, to yourself is this new year. There’s no better way to do it than with a pair of Ray con wireless earbuds in your ears.

[00:16:28] So what we did there, if you need to rediscover 1970s music, because you missed out on that whole. Uh, you need a pair of Ray wireless earbuds in your ears and recon wireless earbuds are the best way to bring audio with you because no matter how much you shake things up, literally no matter how much you shake, you know, shake it off, shake it off. Uh, you know, that they will not fall out of your ears and their everyday your buds look, feel and sound better than ever.

[00:16:53] There’s also an awareness mode for when you need to listen to your surroundings so that you can take your Ray cons with you, [00:17:00] wherever you go. And you use them in all kinds of situations. There are optimized gel tips for the perfect ear fit, and these earbuds are so comfortable and they will not budge.

[00:17:13] Um, I know that, uh, Brett especially has trouble with earbuds falling out. My husband grant, I actually, um, uh, had him, he took the, he stole these from me and he has a really hard time with other ear buds in his ears. And this was the thing that he said, like he loves them because they will not fall out.

[00:17:31] Brett: Yeah, well like, uh, so I, I, I have paid for, and I’m not allowed to talk about competitors names, but anyone who listens to this show knows what earbuds I have paid good money for. And I can not find there is no combination of, uh, tips that will make both earbuds stay in my ears because my ears are different size.

[00:17:57] Cause I’m some kind of weird mutant, but [00:18:00] these re con earbuds at the everyday, your buds have actually stayed in my ear and I can like, hold on, I’m putting them in. You ready? All right.

[00:18:12] Jeff: Shakes? Yes.

[00:18:15] Brett: They don’t fall out. If I had

[00:18:16] Jeff: you put them in, did you put them in

[00:18:18] Brett: I had like bang, pow and like bang power sound effects right now, I would tell you that, like, I can take a punch and these things won’t fall out.

[00:18:26] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:18:26] Christina: no, uh, GRA grant has been like doing a bunch of stuff like working with his, his guitar and like Has been like running all over the house and stuff. And like, he, he even commented, not even knowing that this was part of the ad read. He was like, yeah, they don’t fall out. So,

[00:18:38] Brett: doing the, like the slide across the floor and his socks and his boxers?

[00:18:43] Jeff: oh man, I got pulled out of

[00:18:44] Brett: cause I can tell you that they will survive that.

[00:18:47] Jeff: That’s

[00:18:48] Christina: awesome. That’s awesome. Um, Ray cons oper eight hours of playtime and a 32 hour battery life. And they’re priced just right for you. You get quality audio at half the price of other premium audio brands. [00:19:00] So it’s no wonder that Ray con’s everyday ear buds now have over 48,000 five-star reviews.

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[00:20:44] Fundamental(ist)s

[00:20:44] Brett: Jeff. Did we warn you that this was a Taylor swift podcast?

[00:20:48] Jeff: Yeah. I, know from the title, I got no problem with that. I actually I’d actually go

[00:20:52] Brett: felt a little guilty.

[00:20:54] Jeff: I go so far as to request a multi-disciplinary syllabus.

[00:20:57] Christina: Okay. Okay. Which I can [00:21:00] write for you. I, I can give that to you and, and, uh, and we can give you a whole thesis and syllabus of the show, but Taylor swift is definitely a core component of this.

[00:21:08] So I accept that. You

[00:21:11] Jeff: can have it, you can add attention to the negative.

[00:21:13] Brett: That is also, that is also my approach to this. I accept this.

[00:21:16] Jeff: I, well, I watched a video of her the other day in jury duty. Did you see this.

[00:21:20] Yeah, that was a good bit. Okay. I was like, she seems all right. She’s pretty cool.

[00:21:27] Brett: So speaking of speaking of parents and bad taste that wasn’t too, too long, a walk, was it.

[00:21:35] Jeff: No, no, that’s good.

[00:21:36] Brett: So I have breakfast with my folks every Saturday morning. Uh, we didn’t for, uh, during Omicron, I liked curtailed the breakfast. Uh, our, our community spread was too high and like one in four people in our town were infected and I wasn’t having it.

[00:21:55] Uh, we, we curtail breakfast. We recently resumed them. And then [00:22:00] this morning, so we had this list of like banned topics and we don’t talk about it, but if you bring up like the weather, for example, that will lead down. My parents are very fundamentalist Christians and talking about the weather eventually leads to climate change, which leads to huge arguments.

[00:22:27] And, and today my mom told me that my, my sister-in-law had taken all of our, our nieces to the Ark encounter. And if you’re not familiar with Ken Ham’s arc encounter, it is, it is a apparent, uh, uh, an, a sensibly life-sized replica of Noah’s arc in which they proclaim that dinosaurs were on the Ark because the earth is only 6,000 years old.

[00:22:59] And if [00:23:00] dinosaurs existed, which that’s hard to deny, then they must’ve been on the arc with Noah. And, and like, that is just the beginning of the claims that this makes and I

[00:23:13] Jeff: wait, can I just, can I just make sure I fully understand, so essentially, uh, not denying dinosaurs, just saying that, um, if dinosaurs existed, then they were on the arc air go the arc must’ve been way bigger than we thought. So let’s

[00:23:27] Brett: Here’s the thing.

[00:23:29] Jeff: Kentucky.

[00:23:29] Brett: The Bible, the Bible states how big the arc was

[00:23:34] Jeff: That’s

[00:23:35] Brett: measurements are given. So they have to contort all of this reality to fit into this arc, uh, based on biblical dimensions and, and they, they do their best and they’re okay. There are so many problems with, with their version of the earth that are just like inexplicable,

[00:23:59] Jeff: Right. [00:24:00] And

[00:24:00] Christina: also the fact that, you know, this has been a text that has been converted in multiple languages and, um, uh, parts of it haven’t been removed and, and other things, but we won’t even get into that

[00:24:10] Brett: Like we could debate the veracity of, of NOAA’s of the story of Noah for ever. And, and I do, I watch like almost daily, I watch like YouTube videos that, that speak against the stories that I was raised to believe. And I spent a long time getting to atheism. I spent so many years like D programming myself from funding, fundamentalist, Christianity, but then the, so my, my mom tells me that my sister-in-law took all of my nieces, who I love dearly to the Ark encounter.

[00:24:52] And I just buried my head in my hands. I, I just, I didn’t, I knew this was a forbidden topic. [00:25:00] And she, she was like, what’s wrong. I don’t understand what your reaction to this is. And I just, I, all I could manage was like the lies that that exhibit tells are blatant and impossible to prove. And then my dad said the words, you know, what doesn’t have in the evidence evolution at which point I was just, I was so floored.

[00:25:32] Like I couldn’t like the realization that my parents, like, this is not news to me. I grew up with this shit, but the realization again, that my parents were young earth, creationist who believe the earth is 6,000 years old. And that the Bible and all of its aspects are, is literal. The English translation of the Bible is literal.

[00:25:57] Jeff: And are we talking the king James or what are [00:26:00] we talking?

[00:26:00] Brett: Oh, new international is totally fair

[00:26:03] Jeff: new. Internationalists got it.

[00:26:04] Brett: Totally fair game. Um, the, yeah, the NIV is just a furthering of, of God’s word and they are they’re Bible literalists and the earth is 6,000 years old. And I just, like, I tried, I did my best to like to argue, but I was hyperventilating like this realization that my parents were of these, of this ilk that did not recognize evolution as actual science.

[00:26:38] Just, I, I had been there for 45 minutes and I couldn’t, I couldn’t, I just had to leave. It was, I feel a little bit bad that I cut. They made me breakfast and I stormed out, but I just couldn’t.

[00:26:53] Jeff: Um, what, what works when, when it works with your parents, [00:27:00] like you have this list of things that you don’t talk about Um,

[00:27:03] Brett: work.

[00:27:04] Jeff: Uh, huh?

[00:27:05] Brett: We talk about health,

[00:27:07] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:27:08] Brett: my siblings and how they’re doing, and that’s about it.

[00:27:13] Jeff: And, and like, how, how aware, how, how present is the list in the room when you’re together? Is it constantly

[00:27:21] Brett: Oh, very, you know, you can feel people tip toe around it until they don’t until like, my dad knew as soon as, as soon as he, as he said, you know what? Doesn’t have any evidence evolution. And he like made heart icon.

[00:27:37] Christina: He, he was purposely, he, he was making, he was making a point. Yeah. Like I, especially, because I didn’t get to see my parents for, you know, a year and a half. I’ve tried to not talk about politics with them. Um, when I’ve been going home to see the baby and whatnot, my mom and I did get into one fight.

[00:27:53] Um, uh, last time I was there in, in, in the car and, and I, and I said something to her that was actually fairly rude. And I, [00:28:00] and I apologize, although I wasn’t wrong where, um, we, we were talking about some sort of issue and I was like, well, look, if you want to completely, you know, forego all, um, you know, like rational thought and science or whatnot, or, or I don’t remember what I said, but it was something that they completely kind of dismissed her.

[00:28:17] Uh, perspective at all. Cause I, cause whatever she was talking about is just factually incorrect is just wrong. Um, and this doesn’t get into religious stuff per se, but it was getting into something, um, uh, around like geopolitics and it was just actually incorrect. And, and I, I made some kind of, uh, you know, comments kind of snippy thing about that.

[00:28:38] And, and she had to laugh. She was just like, oh my God, that was so dismissive or whatever. And she was right. But, um, I I’ve, I used to always argue vociferously about that. And it’s weird because now that I have like the fear of, you know, only having so much time left with people, [00:29:00] like there’s certain, there’s certain conversations I just

[00:29:03] Jeff: won’t get into.

[00:29:04] Brett: we do, we tip to around these topics because we accept my parents accept that I am a brainwashed atheist, and I accept that they are brainwash fundamentalists and, and we tip to around these topics. And there’s just kind of this silent nod that, yeah, I know, I know how you feel about this. We’re going to just steer away from this topic now.

[00:29:27] Um, but my dad actually told me this morning that not only was I brainwashed the entire scientific community was brainwashed and it is to their detriment that they have blackballed, anyone who disagrees with evolution and like, like, it was some kind of conspiracy at like they had made up this fantasy and they

[00:29:51] Jeff: fucking Kirk, Cameron, Kirk, Cameron

[00:29:57] Christina: match. Do you remember when he got into like the debate or like, [00:30:00] like one of his people, like they tried to have like a debate with an evolutionary scientist to prove that the Bible was real,

[00:30:06] Brett: Well, Kent Ken ham, Ken ham, who created the evolutionary or the, uh, the Ark encounter and the creationist museum had a debate with bill Nye.

[00:30:17] Jeff: That’s what it was.

[00:30:19] Brett: it was like most bill Nye supporters were like, why would you do this? Why would you give this guy a platform? Uh, but he did it. And by all accounts, he won the debate, but it doesn’t matter.

[00:30:32] You can’t debate with these

[00:30:33] Christina: no, you can’t like, these are people.

[00:30:35] who like, there’s not going to be, you know, they are committed to what they’re committed to, what you hope, I guess with that, is that for people who might not be completely all in, um, might have some sort of change in thought because, uh, this is less true, I think for, um, civilians the creationist stuff.

[00:30:56] But this is certainly true with like a conspiracy [00:31:00] theories where people can make a compelling argument and. Younger people who are just getting into something will see it and see, oh, it makes sense. And there’ll be like me when I was, you know, um, in elementary school and, and up, up until I think college, honestly, who I believed a lot of the Kennedy conspiracy theory stuff, because the stuff that I’d seen that lined up and it wasn’t until I saw some sort of documentary on one of the anniversaries where it was showing a direct lineup between where Oswald wasn’t shot and how it would actually like it was a computer.

[00:31:37] Um, Like generated, um, like, like recreation of what the car was like. And they found that people who’d said, oh, there’s no way that it could have gone through both people. They’d miscalculated how the car was set up. And, and there is, there was like a, um, that the front seat was up, um, uh, slightly and, and, and I guess, like offset. Right, Exactly. And so when I saw the [00:32:00] actual like bullet trajectory path, when somebody had recreated, like in they’d recreate this uproot or film in, in a 3d, like, it was, it was incredible. And I went, oh, holy shit. Yeah. There’s no question about it. It was, is a single, you know, uh, uh, shooter. There’s like, if you want to talk about who put them there and whatnot, I personally agree as difficult as it, you know, sometimes is to give the government credence on things.

[00:32:23] Like I do believe, you know, the Warren commission’s report. And, but, but seeing that at least absolve me of any question of, oh,

[00:32:31] Brett: basically the story of my life. Like I grew up in elementary school, these stories of Noah’s Ark and these stories, like all of the Bible in general. Made sense. Like they seemed reasonable and it wasn’t until high school. When I started to be presented with evidence to the contrary that I began to question things and then college, [00:33:00] you know, uh, you know, college, um, that like, it became very clear that these things were errand.

[00:33:09] And, and, and I, I began my path towards being an atheist. And if I had been raised much, my girlfriend was raised in a, uh, uh, like very, almost Unitarian kind of home where

[00:33:26] Jeff: Our, our reading today is from Steinbeck.

[00:33:32] Brett: And, and so she doesn’t have, like, she has this fear of fundamentalists, but she doesn’t have this strong aversion to fund, like to Christianity, to, to religious people that I do. And if I had been raised like that, I would probably still be a, whatever you would consider spiritual, although. Okay. So I did, I went to temple again [00:34:00] last week

[00:34:01] Jeff: Okay.

[00:34:02] Brett: and I, so I, after this snafu with my parents this morning, I texted my rabbi and I was like, all right, I need to know if you believe in evolution.

[00:34:17] And then I was like, maybe I don’t want her to know. Maybe, maybe.

[00:34:21] Jeff: a rabbi. Of course he does.

[00:34:22] Brett: Maybe if, if you don’t believe in evolution, maybe I don’t want to know about it, but he’s like, fucking of course, I believe in evolution, there’s no reform Jew in the United States who doesn’t believe in evolution. And although Siri translated it as there’s no reformed you who doesn’t believe evolution, Israel,

[00:34:50] Jeff: Whoa, Siri’s all like I got a rabbi here. That’d be switch.

[00:34:55] Brett: Israel, Baraka, TA out. And I, [00:35:00] um, and so like, he’s like, of course I believe in evolution, like there’s, it’s, it’s inconceivable that anyone wouldn’t believe in evolution. And I was like, this is why I go to temple. This is why like, I, I am an atheist, I’m a sauna atheist. I’m not looking for God, but I appreciate the community.

[00:35:20] Christina: Well, I was going to say, you’re not looking for the real, your bro. You’re looking, we talked about this last episode and you’re looking for the community.

[00:35:25] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate in this last temple I went to, they were celebrating, uh, a couple that had been with the community for 49 years and were moving on. They were moving to be closer to their, their family and they were leaving the community and they let the, the, the, the man get up and talk about like what, what that community had meant to him.

[00:35:57] And it was very touching. Like [00:36:00] I was, I was like, this is, I understand why people are religious. If this is, if this is what they get out of it, having grown up with fire and brimstone and young earth creationism, it made sense to me.

[00:36:17] Jeff: Um, there’s a book, uh, the philosopher Alain de Baton. I dunno how you say his name actually, because I think it’s French and it probably just sounds like Elaine at all. Um, and it’s called religion for atheists and not only is this person, just one of my favorite, very accessible, um, writers, but he does a beautiful job of the whole book is essentially just like, okay. Yeah. I’m an atheist. Let’s, you know, that’s the thing. Um, but do I just write off everything that it, you know, is filed under religion? Or do I kind of try to understand that being an atheist, what might be missing in my life? Like in, in my, in my attempts, at meaning making in my attempts at [00:37:00] understanding how

[00:37:00] Brett: is the actual important part of religion? That’s

[00:37:03] Jeff: Yeah, and he just, it’s a beautiful book. It’s a really quick read. I just really recommend it. It’s a beautiful book and it gets that community of course, and ritual and all of that, but it’s really nice.

[00:37:13] Brett: it called again

[00:37:14] Jeff: It’s called religion. It’s called religion for atheists.

[00:37:19] Brett: All right.

[00:37:22] Jeff: That’s a great book. I like, I like being able to T so I’m not, I’m not, I’m not religious. I was raised Catholic.

[00:37:29] Um, I’m, I’m pretty sure.

[00:37:31] Brett: not religious. I was raised Catholic.

[00:37:33] Jeff: I’m pretty sure that I’m pretty sure that I don’t believe in God, at least in the way I’ve understood it. Yada, yada, yada. Um, but um, I have to say that I, I get nothing out of having conversations about religion that, um, That like, you know, the first step is like, okay, let’s dig two trenches.

[00:37:52] Those are where the idiots are, and this is where we are. Right. Like, I can’t, I just can’t do that. Um, because I’ve, I’ve been [00:38:00] around enough people in my life who are religious to understand that, like, this is, this is how you do meaning-making at its best. Right. It can be really dysfunctional and terrible at its worst.

[00:38:08] Um, and I think you’re describing some of that, Brett. Um, but, but at its at its best, it’s, it’s a way people find meaning and, and, and that’s like, that’s the thing, right? We walk through this, they’re trying to understand what does it all mean and how should I live? And I don’t fault anybody for, for, you know, finding a home inside of some, you know, construct that for me is kind of unfathomable What what I struggle with, which it sounds like is happening with your parents.

[00:38:35] And I’ve certainly had people in my family down that road is like, it’s like, is religion when religion is just a jumble of counterfactual. And not something that predominantly helps you answer the question of how do I live then I just don’t understand it at all. I can’t, I can’t relate at all. And it sounds like you’re kind of stuck in that where it’s [00:39:00] like this counterfactual, uh, relationship to religion

[00:39:03] Brett: drives me insane is this concept of morality. And in the church I grew up in morality can’t exist without God. Like, if you don’t believe in God, you are by default, uh, we’ll say homosexual murderer, because those are like the two worst things that a church can imagine. Right.

[00:39:28] Jeff: Uh huh.

[00:39:28] Brett: And so if you don’t have God, there is no morality.

[00:39:34] You have no sense of right and wrong without God. And that is what has always driven me nuts because I have always felt I have a perfectly functioning, moral compass. Like I understand what makes life better for me and for those around me and I care about it. And, and I am perfectly capable of deciding right and wrong for myself [00:40:00] without religion.

[00:40:02] And most religions that I’ve run into understand that morality is a scale. And most of them accept that humans by default understand right and wrong. And, and everyone’s everyone’s right. And wrong may be different. Like that’s. That’s a variable scale, just like it is between religions. But the idea that if you don’t have a God, you have no idea.

[00:40:34] What’s right. And wrong has always baffled me.

[00:40:39] Christina: Yeah, no, it’s I don’t know. I mean, we, we, it’s so interesting too, because at least like the church that I was brought up in and, and look, I, I consider myself maybe spiritual it. We’ve talked about this before. I have a hard time completely divesting myself. I’ve called myself an atheist before, but I’m really not I’m I’m agnostic.

[00:40:58] Um, but, um, [00:41:00] Like the way that I was brought up, which like, I think that even though I went to church every Sunday and, and as a child really cared a lot about, about God and whatnot, I think your parents would consider me moral it because I certainly was never brought up to think, oh, well, people who believe something different than me are going to hell.

[00:41:21] Like that was never even

[00:41:22] Jeff: a question. Yeah.

[00:41:24] Brett: My girlfriend has never been married. And when I brought up the topic of premarital sex, she’s like, holy shit, that’s the only kind of sex I’ve ever had.

[00:41:35] Jeff: Right.

[00:41:35] Christina: Right. Well, and look, and that was definitely something that like, was, was talked about as being like, like bad and this and that. And I had to kind of get over my own hangups for that, you know? And, and, uh, it, obviously I did. Um, but, but it was one of those things where like, it was kind of drilled into us.

[00:41:51] Like you, you should, you should wait until you’re married and whatnot. And then I think. I think I was still like going to church and I was, I told my mom and I was like, yeah, I don’t think I’m going to do [00:42:00] that. And she got really upset and I was like, look, and, and, and my, my rationale was, was actually, especially for being as young as I was, was really, I think smart because what I said was, I don’t want to set This this thing up for myself that I can’t live up to, and then feel like I failed in some way.

[00:42:17] And, and, and I, I don’t want to take on that kind of emotional thing of like, you, you were not good enough and you’re not a good person, and you’re a failure because I didn’t live up to this frankly, bullshit ideal of a

[00:42:29] Brett: based on property.

[00:42:31] Jeff: Right. Right. Well, and come to find out, right? Like especially our generation, like come to find out that, that, that there’s this voice in all of us that tells us we’re not good enough.

[00:42:41] We’re not this enough. We’re not that enough. And you start to wonder if, if, if religion, you know, it just kind of took the space of that voice and that voice took the shape of religion for people. I mean, I don’t know, like I’m, I have kind of an arrogant take on it a little bit, which is like, like in the case of what you’re talking about, [00:43:00] bright with your parents, but also like my son just finished a documentary project for history day on the satanic panic around Dungeons and dragons and the aides.

[00:43:08] And like, it’s, it’s all just such a case of it all feels to me. And I’m not saying that this is what it is. This is why I say it’s kind of arrogant. It feels like a case to me of the symbol is not the thing symbolized. Right. So like. When Patricia Pauling’s son killed himself believing he was under the influence of a spell cast on him in a game.

[00:43:28] And I’m willing to just accept that at face value, right. That he was not well. And he believed that, that this spell had impacted him in real life. He committed to a side. She started this organization called, called, um, what was it? It’s the acronym is bad, bad. D it’s um, something against Dungeons and dragons.

[00:43:46] Anyway, she. No, no, no, she, but she’s up there, you know, on all the television news shows and she’s, she’s, you know, talking about, um, suicide rates in Dungeons dragons, using statistics that don’t make any sense. [00:44:00] And, and my son who’s seventh grade was sort of. Not really like mocking her, but whenever he did have to talk about her or think about her, it felt like, um, he, you know, he was kind of looking down on her and I just, I said, and I said, like I said this to his teacher too, cause I wasn’t sure like just even developmentally how to approach it so that it’s like, look, this woman did a lot of harm in the name of her grief, which is something that humans do all the time.

[00:44:26] And hers took the form of this thing that actually caused a lot of harm for a lot of. Kids who are, who are finding a way to have community in a way to express themselves and all of that, right? Like D and D was such a positive force for so many people, but it was a positive force for so many people at the same time that the popular culture, and sometimes their parents were telling them that they were evil because they were doing it.

[00:44:47] Right. The thing about the symbol is not the thing symbolized as like, clearly this wasn’t about D and D for Patricia pulling in a lot of ways. Like this was a mother who lost her son and was trying to understand

[00:44:58] Christina: it. That’s [00:45:00] What it was. It was, it was a mother who it was easier. And it would be, I think, for anyone to say not my son was, was severely mentally ill and, and was in pain and made a decision because of his psychosis or whatever the case may be.

[00:45:15] But to say, if not for this game, he would still be alive. Right. because, you know, I can’t even conceive of, I’m not a parent, so I can’t even begin to conceive what it’d be like to lose a child, but I know what it’s like to lose other people. And I know what grief is like, and, and I, I, you know, grief does fuck up things to you all.

[00:45:34] So I love that you gave your son that perspective. Cause I think that’s so important, especially at his age. Cause I know when I was his age, I totally would have been the same thing. I would have been locking itself. You know what I mean? But like I would have been, I wouldn’t have even entered my mind though to even have that perspective of like, oh, I’m so self satisfied, look how smart I am.

[00:45:50] Look how good I am. And, and we see that all the time on Twitter. Like I see people who are my friends who still take that perspective and it’s like, no, these people did [00:46:00] bad. Things are wrong, but where did it come from? You know?

[00:46:03] Jeff: Right, right. And like, and that just the humility of saying, of recognizing that we all make bad decisions and hurt people.

[00:46:10] And it’s not always on the same scale, but like it comes from the same internal operating

[00:46:15] Christina: system. Right.

[00:46:17] Jeff: I also

[00:46:17] Brett: be possibly have said for like what,

[00:46:21] Jeff: Uh, hold on. I may, I should know this cause I’ve, he’s been working on this so much. Um,

[00:46:26] Brett: Like brethren against like B I can’t think of any B words that aren’t about boys. And this is a mother we’re

[00:46:34] Jeff: not snappy. It’s bothered about origins and dragons bothered. that’s

[00:46:40] Brett: I’m sorry for laughing. Cause this is a very serious topic.

[00:46:43] Jeff: It’s a doable. Yeah.

[00:46:46] Christina: You know, you know, mad worked because mad was both a good acronym and worked, you know what I

[00:46:50] Jeff: mean?

[00:46:50] Brett: Mad was brilliant.

[00:46:52] Jeff: yeah. Where this fails is that what they’re trying to convince the world is that this is Satan’s foothold into your children’s lives.

[00:46:58] So to say that you’re bothered [00:47:00] about it is a little out of scale

[00:47:01] Brett: is state 10

[00:47:02] Christina: and it is No, and it was a real thing and, and it’s. we, saw it, you know, uh, with Columbine, you see with a lot of things where people, they can’t conceive of any other sort of boogeyman. Like they need the boogeyman there because they can’t conceive that something terrible could happen just because it happens.

[00:47:21] Jeff: Um, or because it was somehow mental health related, like in those, in those days, Jesus, like no one had a language

[00:47:26] Christina: for that. No. And even now, um, in some ways I almost feel like it’s sometimes has gone too far in the other direction where now we immediately give almost a pass to anybody who does anything like, oh, well they’re mentally unwell.

[00:47:42] And not to say that that isn’t the reason, but, but then, but then somehow like that absolve some of their actions and that’s not true, right? Like. Yeah. People who are, who are, who are mentally ill, can still do terrible things and are still responsible for their actions. It just means we need to have an understanding about it, but, but it comes into this thing where people like [00:48:00] flatten it to the point where they’re like, oh no, no, we can’t say anything negative about someone who has like a mental health problem.

[00:48:07] Okay. Fuck that.

[00:48:08] Brett: need to understand when we talk about how we could have prevented something, we need to understand the roots of mental illness,

[00:48:17] Jeff: exactly.

[00:48:18] Brett: not excuse mental illness, but understand that we didn’t do anything about it.

[00:48:23] Jeff: Right. And also in some

[00:48:24] Christina: cases like the case with this woman’s son, there might be circumstances. And this is really sad because this happens in all the cases where you might, even if you did everything right, it wouldn’t have stopped it. And I think that’s, I think that’s the most difficult thing for people to say, even if we saw all the science, even if we acted on things.

[00:48:40] Cause you see that happen all the time, where people do act on things where people do have treatment, where people buy because of that as part of also the nature of, of, you know, mental health is that we’re deceitful about it because we don’t want to, um, accepted a lot of cases, um, or, or, you know, something just like, you know, stuff just happens.

[00:48:59] Like, [00:49:00] and, and I think that that’s the hardest thing for people to kind of grapple with terrible things happen, which is that even if I did everything right, I might not have been able to prevent this, so I need to have somebody to blame. So in, in, so in, in, in that woman’s case, it is okay. I can’t conceive of anything else other than the fact that if this game did not exist, he would still be alive.

[00:49:20] Yeah,

[00:49:21] Jeff: yeah. Completely. Yeah. And like I’m for him, like, I didn’t expect him to come to that. It was more like, what was nice was the fact that he was doing a piece of journalism, gave me a reason to be like, Hey, just so you know, when you tell this, you kinda gotta tell, you gotta tell it in a way that if she was watching it she’d feel like, okay, you don’t agree with me, but you definitely described my primary concern, which is a great

[00:49:42] Christina: lesson.

[00:49:42] And because, cause again, like, even if he’s not gonna always like come, uh, uh, come about like have that level of empathy and, and whatnot at his age, I think just even having a dad, who’s saying, Hey, you might need to look at it.

[00:49:54] this way because he’s already doing this sort of journalism. He’s already inquisitive.

[00:49:57] So that’s opening up his mind to then [00:50:00] look at those things from this perspective,

[00:50:02] Jeff: Definitely. Yeah. definitely. I don’t know, man. I just feel like we’re, we’re, we’re in constant as a culture. We just feel like perpetually in denial of our capacity to do harm. And, and, and we forget that we all are born with that capacity and, and live and walk with that capacity.

[00:50:18] And I feel like if we had some, like some level of like, not necessarily comfort, but just acceptance of that so much could

[00:50:25] Christina and Jeff: be

[00:50:25] Christina: different. No. And the thing is, is we all do harm, right? And we all do harm. And I think the thing too is I think about this a lot as a comfort in the acceptance of the fact that make it better.

[00:50:37] But B I think there’s also a realization that, and this I think has happened to where I do get frustrated with, with people on my own side, Who, no one wants to assume good faith. And no one wants to assume that just that the people who are doing harm didn’t intend to some people do intend to do harm.

[00:50:53] Absolutely. But many people don’t. And that doesn’t change the fact that they’re not harming

[00:50:59] Jeff: someone right.

[00:50:59] Brett: [00:51:00] who are these people that intend to do harm? Like I’ve seen it. I seen it, but in my mind, the average everyday person, anywhere in the world does not intend to do harm.

[00:51:15] Jeff: Does it wake up them, you know, in the morning, what is the people always say this when they’re talking about various crimes, that person did not wake up this morning wanting to do X, but they did X.

[00:51:25] So, about Sammy Hagar

[00:51:25] Brett: Yeah. Can you believe we’ve made it to 50 minutes in without talking about Sammy Hagar?

[00:51:33] Jeff: Uh, I can do it. It’s actually, uh, we could, we could save it for next week or I could do it now. Uh,

[00:51:40] Brett: I feel like it’s happening. This

[00:51:41] Jeff: yeah, we’re, they’re actually, I mean, This is a perfect transition and then, um, I’ll have to go cause I have to tend to the, to the world outside my door. Um, so. Okay. So Sammy Hagar now, just to give some background, uh, Sammy Hagar was a relief, [00:52:00] just super ridiculous, hard rock singer in the eighties.

[00:52:04] His big hit that put him on my radar was the song I can’t drive 55.

[00:52:11] which to me like if you’re gonna plant your fucking flag in the ground, like, is that really it? And as a side note, the Minutemen, the wonderful punk rock, uh, group from California had a double album called double nickels on the dime and double nickels is 55.

[00:52:31] And there’s the whole idea of that album was we absolutely will drive 55 if Sammy Hagar will not.

[00:52:37] um, But anyhow, he was, he was a cornball, I mean, in a, in a, in a total like genre of cornballs. Right. But he was just such an assertive corn ball. And, and I was at that time, like so many kids, my age, I was in probably fourth or fifth grade when I heard of San Diego, I was a huge van Halen fan.

[00:52:58] In fact, this would have been around when [00:53:00] the album, 1984 came out, which has all the big hits, like hopper teacher and, you know, uh, jump and all that stuff. Everything gets played at the roller rink. I don’t know if that’s still true. Um, but at any rate, Then healing for me was incredible. Even then. I mean, like I can speak better about what I love about that era of van Halen now.

[00:53:22] And I can say it very simply, you have this over-sexualized seemingly like a CIS hetero male rock group, but the singer pulled dances and videos in a sailor suit. And so it’s like, it’s like, what is this wonderful multi-layered universe that’s called van Halen. Um, and I’m talking about David Lee Roth, who was just a completely, is a completely bizarre superstar who like, again, would pull dance, uh, in a sailor suit in a video.

[00:53:54] But also like when I moved to New York city in 2000 SU [00:54:00] 2005, he was working as a goddamn EMT in the Bronx. Like he is the most fascinating character.

[00:54:07] Brett: diamond,

[00:54:07] Jeff: Lee Roth, diamond Dave was working at Yeah.

[00:54:10] seriously. Yeah. And you know, I can prove it with a quote from him, uh, which doesn’t really prove it, which is like, I remember reading an interview and he had some code about how his dream is that he’ll just come upon some Swiss female hiker who’s broken her leg leg or whatever.

[00:54:23] You know what I mean? Like it’s a very David Lee rut, but anyway, so David Lee Roth, you know, he, in, in 1985, he’s out of the band. We don’t have to get into the drama, but he’s out of the band. Right.

[00:54:34] Christina: That’s the great behind the music

[00:54:36] Jeff: on it, but Yeah, Oh, good. Okay. Good to know. And, and, and who gets hired for the job, Mr.

[00:54:41] Fucking, I can’t drive 55, who definitely is not pulled dancing in a sailor suit. Right. So that’s the first disappointment, the first very specific disappointment, but then he comes in and he’s such a cornball and his, his songs are just, his lyrics are just so fucking dumb. They’re dumb. I mean, Dave, [00:55:00] Dave rots lyrics were dumb.

[00:55:01] If you listened to them hot for

[00:55:03] Brett: the thing is I never gave a shit. I never gave a shit about this argument because they were both dumb.

[00:55:09] Jeff: they were well, okay. So, but here’s the thing, David Lee Roth brought it with this sort of vaudeville kind of presentation, which to this day is super attractive to me. I just love watching him do his crazy ass vaudeville hair metal thing.

[00:55:23] There was nobody else like him. And there were plenty of Sammy Hagar, RS. And so Sammy Hagar joins the band. They make a band, they make an album called 51 50, which is like, I think the legal code for insane or whatever, which like Sammy Hagar is totally not insane. He’s like the most not insane boring person ever.

[00:55:41] Right. They become a huge thing. And me instantly, right. It’s like, do you, who do you side with, are you with van Hagar? Are you with van Halen

[00:55:50] Brett: Who did, who did for unlawful carnal knowledge?

[00:55:53] Jeff: That’s them, which stands for fuck. I mean, it’s just so stupid. And they had an album called, they had an album called Ooh, [00:56:00] 8 1 2, which is just the letter O the letter U you know, the number eight, the number one, the number you just such a stupid anyway.

[00:56:08] So I, you know, we all decided we all had to take a side in those days and, and that was one of those things, kind of like what we were talking about earlier, where you decide who you hate and you hold onto it forever inexplicably. Right? So like I now know that I was so dramatically against Sammy Hagar in 1985, that a friend of mine who I hadn’t talked to since that year, a couple of years ago, We kind of reunited and he’s like, dude, anytime van Hagar comes out on an a bar.

[00:56:37] Like I fucking, I, I raised the flag I’m for David Lee Roth. And you know, what’s fucked up about that. I don’t even listen to van Halen. I just remember that for you, because you were so intense about it in 1985

[00:56:49] Brett: are really we’re we’re we’re really appealing to our millennial audience here.

[00:56:56] Jeff: So anyway, uh, here’s, here’s the, here’s the deal? So [00:57:00] I, my dad who my dad gave, uh, gave my son a CD. Uh, my son started listening to old, like classic rock and he had a cassette player and a CD player, and my dad would get him stuff from the thrift store. He brought a copy of and I said, son, do you know what we do with this?

[00:57:14] And he said, he said, what? I said, we’d go out to the garage and we hit it with a hammer,

[00:57:20] Brett: That

[00:57:20] Jeff: which is why,

[00:57:21] Brett: way my parents treated all my Aerosmith. CDs.

[00:57:24] Jeff: Exactly. And so anyway, okay. So this has gone on for, let’s be honest, like way too long. Like I should not hate him. I tell a story often about defender Barnhart, bear bar. Now you remember this guy, Devin, the vendor Ben on our database.

[00:57:36] Brett: What are you talking

[00:57:37] Jeff: it like member freak folk in like the low early two thousands,

[00:57:43] Brett: are you?

[00:57:44] Jeff: 47?

[00:57:45] Brett: Oh my God. Okay. So.

[00:57:47] Jeff: Anyway, this is like you just picture like the dirtiest hippie with a guitar in like, uh, with a gig at a sushi restaurant. It’s somewhere in Los Angeles, right. And [00:58:00] Sammy Hagar is there eating sushi and he hates this guy’s songs.

[00:58:04] Right. And so he goes up and confronts him and this guy punches him in the face. And I have loved telling that story for So.

[00:58:11] long. And I finally just wondered, why do I love this? Why do I care? And so the other day, this is we’re getting to it. Now, the other day, I’m driving in my car and I have a tendency to listen to the classic rock station.

[00:58:22] So long as the morning, show’s not on. Um, cause I’m just like, I don’t really get off on like misogyny and xenophobia. Oh, and, and, and on comes a van Hagar song it’s uh, uh, come on, baby. Finish what you started. Uh, it’s it’s very snappy. Um, it’s got lovely guitar playing, uh, Sammy Hagar. His voice I admit is very kind of, can be kind of rich and pleasant.

[00:58:48] Right. But it’s also stupid. But I said to myself, as soon as I heard the riff, I said, I think it’s time. I think it’s time to allow this in. Normally I would just change the station. Right. But I allow [00:59:00] this in. I’m not going to just leave the party because this guy walked in. Right. Like I’m going to stay here and I’m going to hold my ground and just be me and let him be him.

[00:59:07] And yeah, that’s what it is. So I listened to the song. I let my foot tap a little bit, you know, I, to let out a couple of noises that sounded roughly like the chorus and, uh, and it was all over. And I thought, I feel like something has changed for me. And then about 20 minutes later, I was on phone call with a friend who is telling me.

[00:59:27] that they’re in this stage relationship wise, where they don’t want to commit what they want is someone that can be very loving, but also a friend.

[00:59:38] And I said, quoting that song that I had just listened to 20 minutes ago. You want to love her? You want a friend, honey? I can be both. And that wasn’t me offering. I’m saying I was like, you’re, you’re what you’re talking about is what Sammy was talking about. Right. And then I just decided, and I decided right there, it was over.

[00:59:58] And now I watch, I watch [01:00:00] him doing interviews with people. I just try it. I just, I’m just letting them in. I’m letting them in because you know what, why the fuck am I carrying this much anger about a man that completely insignificant to my life,

[01:00:10] Christina: so for, for, for, for like 37 years, you’ve been, you’ve been

[01:00:15] Jeff: harboring this resentment people that haven’t seen me since I was a child Harbor it for me, like they’ve been standard bearers for my cause.

[01:00:24] Brett: I’ve been trying not to laugh directly microphone, but this is great.

[01:00:29] Jeff: This is fantastic.

[01:00:32] Christina: I also have to say, cause I put it in the show notes whenever I hear Sammy Hagar. The only thing I think of as the Nerf herder song, which is like, it’s called van Halen. And it’s like, is this what you wanted? Sammy Hagar? And like the whole thing, the whole course is like never again, never again, like about how, like, basically it’s like, it’s all about like how van Halen’s been ruined and, and, uh, that’s all I can think about whenever I, I hear

[01:00:56] Jeff: Sammy Hagar.

[01:00:57] Brett: I was always fascinated by how, [01:01:00] how, how much people committed to this controversy or diamond day

[01:01:07] Jeff: it has.

[01:01:07] Brett: SIM Hager.

[01:01:08] Jeff: And that is exact. And that, that commitment is commensurate to what a unique fucking force of nature. David Lee Roth was.

[01:01:18] Brett: Okay. So to, to bring this back around previous episodes, I feel like there’s the same kind of, no, it’s not though Tommy Lee, I’m talking about Tammy

[01:01:29] Jeff: Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah,

[01:01:31] Brett: It is not the same kind. Cause he was never replaced.

[01:01:35] Jeff: no. And he was just charming as all. And in the end of the day, that’s actually not that special

[01:01:40] Christina: Again, this was, this is another music area where I, like, I just don’t have any, and I mentioned this before, maybe it was in that last episode, but I have like no cultural reference of hair bands.

[01:01:51] Jeff: Hmm, you guys. I wrote, I wrote four city pages, the weekly here. I wrote a history of hair metal in the twin cities. Nice. [01:02:00] I’ll have to share it with you. That you’ll love it,

[01:02:01] Brett: This has been a fun episode. You got.

[01:02:03] Jeff: yeah. Sorry. I feel like when I w that rant, you must be wondering, did, we basically bring a boomer onto this podcast?

[01:02:12] Brett: but it’s to extent we’re extending our reach.

[01:02:18] Christina: The millennial is the one who contends that the BGS were a good band,

[01:02:21] Jeff: so, yeah, right. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.

[01:02:25] Brett: Hey, you guys get some sleep.

[01:02:28] Jeff: oh God. I can only dream of sleeping, get some sleep. All right. Y’all talk to you.