275: An Atheist and a Rabbi…

Or Second Life With a Helmet… Jeff Severns Guntzel joins the Overtired crew for a third week to discuss Ukraine, zombies, vampires, and things that go viral in the night.

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Overtired 275

[00:00:00] Brett: Hey listeners, you are tuned into as if it were an FM dial. You are tuned into overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here as always with Christina warrant and for the third week in a row,

[00:00:19] Christina: Part time

[00:00:20] Brett: Jeff sevens Gunzel

[00:00:21] Christina: and this house.

[00:00:23] Brett: and his house purse, which has caused quite the stir amongst the people.

[00:00:29] Christina: We’ll want to know? Tell us more about the house first.

[00:00:32] Jeff: Uh, now right

[00:00:34] Brett: Well, let’s let’s, let’s do a quick mental health. Check-in Jeff, how you doing?

[00:00:39] Jeff: Um, I’m, I’m, I’m doing good in many ways. Um, it’s been a couple, few weeks since I’ve had real sleep and, um, I’m, I’ve returned to something that hasn’t happened to me since the beginning of the pandemic, which is I, I, I started. Basically 1:00 AM. Um, I roll over, I look at the [00:01:00] clock 1:00 AM. I think I fall back asleep for a long time.

[00:01:03] I rolled back over one 15 and I do this and I do this until I get out of bed at five. And, um, and it’s really, it’s just gotten to the point where it’s like, okay, this is, this is a problem, you know, but an hour ago we’re recording kind of early, not as early as for you Christina, an hour ago, I was just like on the couch, barely able to form words.

[00:01:23] And so I’ve really pulled myself together.

[00:01:25] Brett: are you taking ADHD meds right now?

[00:01:28] Jeff: No, I

[00:01:28] Christina and Jeff: am

[00:01:29] Brett: So this is just, this is just natural Geoff sleep patterns. All five.

[00:01:33] Jeff: apparently which again, I mean, one that again, I’ve told you this bread in the past, but like sleep was the one problem I never had. I could lay down literally anywhere and, and,

[00:01:43] Brett: Even in Iraq.

[00:01:45] Jeff: even in anywhere. Yeah. And fall asleep and falling asleep is still not my problem, but staying asleep. Oh

[00:01:50] Christina: boy.

[00:01:51] Brett: Yeah, I get it. I get it. I don’t know if it’s like, I’ve heard people talk about that being an age thing, like just sleeping less as you get [00:02:00] older, but I definitely have that problem started. Mine starts around 2:00 AM. Yeah. Between two and four, especially just every 15 minutes. Thinking, thinking it’s been longer than it has, although I’m cursed with the ability to always know exactly how long I’ve been asleep.

[00:02:16] Like I can wake up from a super deep nap and know with within a 10 minute, like span what time it is.

[00:02:23] Jeff: Actually that’s one thing I’ve lost. I just, you just made me realize that it used to be that I could wake up any point in the night and be like, oh, it’s two 30, roughly. And now I wake up and I think, oh, it’s two 30. I’m like, it’s 1130.

[00:02:38] Brett: Um, so Christina, how are you?

[00:02:40] Christina: So, you know, the role is a dumpster fire, even more than like usual right now. And, uh, obviously like this doesn’t impact me in any real way at all. Uh, but it is still one of those things where like, grant can’t stop watching the news.

[00:02:57] Brett: Hmm.

[00:02:58] Christina: I’m watching the news and then it [00:03:00] does have this weird, like add on effect on my mental health in so far as like, and we’ve talked about this before, but because I spent so many years in Jeff, I think you can probably relate to this.

[00:03:11] Uh, and, and you can still to some extent, but, but maybe, uh, maybe you can relate to what I’m going to say now. Like, because for so many years I was covering. These terrible things as they were happening in real time, I got sense of almost like separation from it in so far as I never really had to like, contemplate what was going on and when I’m not living in like the, the day-to-day like news cycle stuff, even though.

[00:03:37] Uh, you know, war reporter or like a breaking news person, because I lived in that ecosystem and, and had to kind of be around it and would have to write stories if it was related kind of associated with that stuff. Now that I don’t have that kind of, you know, thing that that would prevent me from being able to like internalize all the terrible things that happen in the world.

[00:03:59] It’s [00:04:00] really depressing and, and is it’s sort of difficult sometimes to grapple with. All of the terrible things that are happening to the world.

[00:04:10] Jeff: I definitely relate to that. Definitely relate to that. It’s I you saying, I mean, for me, part of it is that like, I’m constantly having to remind myself you have nothing to do here.

[00:04:20] Right? Like there’s, there’s nothing that you are doing. There’s nothing that you can do at this moment. And so that’s like, think

[00:04:27] Christina: about it.

[00:04:28] Brett: Oh, yeah. I, I could see that being a feeling of helplessness, at least when you’re reporting, you feel like you’re, you’re part of it.

[00:04:35] You’re doing something.

[00:04:37] Christina: Yeah, you’re doing something, but also it’s also in some ways kind of a, just a base distraction thing, right? Like you have time to even internalize what it is because you’ve got to get a story out and you’ve got to kind of feel the attached, like even like from a job perspective, like you’ve got to be like, okay, I have to be detached to be able to be professional.

[00:04:54] And then when you don’t have that, it’s like, Oh, wow. [00:05:00] Okay. I have to actually think about this and, and it’s not my job and I can’t do anything about it. And I don’t have that attachment thing that I used to.

[00:05:08] Brett: So speaking of news I have for a long time. If I get into it with somebody and they’re like either like Fox news or MSNBC Watchers, like I talk about like unbiased news and, and how you need, like, you need more news sources and they’re always asking for recommendations. If, if it’s a good conversation they’re asking for recommendations.

[00:05:32] And for a long time, I’ve just pointed people towards, towards writers till aids writers.

[00:05:38] Christina: it’s still his way. Did you know who you kind of listened to?

[00:05:41] Brett: Um, because like writers does a pretty good job of just putting out the AP Newswire as is. Um, but you know, I haven’t given her enough credit to?

[00:05:51] and I almost completely forgot about until this week is Al Jazeera and Al-Jazeera does some really good

[00:05:58] Christina: I was just here America. You [00:06:00] mean?

[00:06:00] Brett: sure.

[00:06:01] I mean, obviously like,

[00:06:04] Christina: no, but no, cause that’s an important distinction.

[00:06:06] Brett: Okay. I don’t know anything about other Al-Jazeera is all I know is that the Al Jazeera network that I can pick up on my apple TV with an Al-Jazeera app offers really good, uh, unbiased. Like they bring in a panel of people that don’t necessarily agree. Clearly don’t have like a party line that they’re following and are like spread around the world and offering different perspectives, different points of view, and they’re letting them talk.

[00:06:36] And I’m talking about like, it’s called inside, not inside edition, but uh, it’s it there, they have a, uh, a panel series that they do in addition to the short news clips that they run. It’s it’s good stuff.

[00:06:52] Jeff: I have been completely digesting this war on Tik TOK, which is not, which is pretty incredible, [00:07:00] actually. Like it’s, it’s the amount of. I mean, the algorithm clearly figured out fast that I’m, I’m gonna, you know, spend some time with the, with the, like, just whatever the guy who’s, who’s like taping his buddy, like moving a landmine from one place to another, with a cigarette dangling from his

[00:07:20] Brett: Yeah.

[00:07:20] I saw that one. I saw that I saw that on YouTube,

[00:07:25] Jeff: okay.

[00:07:25] Brett: as, as we know, that is how I consume tick-tock is through YouTube.

[00:07:29] Jeff: And there are a lot of lives that happen at certain times in the day. And it’s not like I’m getting, um, analysis out of that, but I know, or

[00:07:37] Christina: even necessarily like correct information from that, depending on like what

[00:07:42] Jeff: you don’t know, if you’re looking at something that’s real. Although I feel like I’ve, I I’ve had to deal with that long enough that I’m, I’m kinda like blow by the stuff that I’m like, oh, there’s just no way of knowing that this is real, right.

[00:07:51] Like the lives are really helpful. Um, But I just to say that like, um, having been in war [00:08:00] zones, the, the thing that sticks with me the most about that experience is how normal everything feels and how normal you feel in a strange way. And even as everything around you and you recognize this as completely extraordinary, um, the kinds of decisions you have to make are totally unlike decisions you would, you would usually have to make, but it’s you making them, you don’t feel like someone else making them.

[00:08:26] And so when I see just kind of really, um, straightforward plain footage of people walking through their city, talking from their window, whatever it is, um, For reasons that I can’t necessarily say are extendable to people, really trying to understand the situation. It helps me to remember how completely real this has, especially as everybody gets horny for Zelensky and, and, and maybe like, can forget that all of this stuff that’s so inspiring.[00:09:00]

[00:09:00] You know, going out and defending their country in, in a minute that can turn into all those people just ripped apart in debt, on the street. And, and if they’re not that on the street, those who take up guns who have never fought before and then kill, like something happens to them like where we’re with them in the popular culture sense through this moment of like, Yes, this is amazing.

[00:09:21] Go get them. Fuck the Russians, whatever. Fuck Putin, not fuck the Russians. Cause those soldiers are a bunch of bunch of kids. Right? That’s the other thing that seems to be kind of missing, but like the thing that, um, I’m always trying to hang on to is that, you know, if, if I’m imagining myself in that situation, I’m imagining myself feeling the support of the world and the excitement of the world as I get ready, no matter how scared I am to sort of defend my city.

[00:09:44] Um, but I also, I also know. Jeff knows, not as the person in Ukraine that like once you have to start shooting and once you do kill people, um, nobody’s with you anymore. You’re all alone. And, and it’s a lot of [00:10:00] people to be alone with something that. Very little kind of support or understanding of how to support.

[00:10:07] And so like, I am just overwhelmed when I watched the news and watch everybody making Molotov cocktails, like I’m inspired. I’m like so moved, which is probably the better word I’m moved. Um, and at the same time, like I’m always thinking, I’m always thinking the after. And I really, I really know that all of this energy that’s propping, you know, Ukrainians up right now is going to be gone when they need it.

[00:10:29] The most. That’s really sad to

[00:10:31] Christina: me.

[00:10:32] Brett: Yeah, I feel like so the Russian people for the first time in a conflict, I feel like the. The Russian people are being humanized by the news in a way that say Iraqis and Kuwaitis never were, uh, for me, um, it’s, it’s, it’s been very apparent that a good portion of Russia does not support this, this [00:11:00] move by Putin and that the people are affected directly by even things like sanction.

[00:11:07] Affect the Russian people in a way that is unfortunate. And, and, and I feel like that has been made clear to me.

[00:11:16] in a way that, uh, it hasn’t been in previous conflicts in my

[00:11:20] Jeff: Does it there’s a quicker path to the humanity of white people? Unfortunately.

[00:11:27] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I think, I think also the reality is like we have had more exposure potentially to people who live in Eastern Europe than we have to people who have lived in, you know, parts of the middle east. Who’ve actually lived there in that.

[00:11:40] Not just have.

[00:11:42] Jeff: Totally. Although I have to say for me, like I find it it’s a quicker path for me as well. Like, and I, and I feel like I, you know, just have known so many people in, in, especially the Arab war and like, and even for me, it’s just like, I see, I see someone like some white Ukrainian dude that like looks a little bit [00:12:00] like me, but maybe as a track suit on and like grabbing a gun and I’m just like, oh, I, I instantly relate to that.

[00:12:06] It’s just, this is so

[00:12:07] Brett: And they’re enlisting people up to the. 60, which includes all of us.

[00:12:13] Christina: Yeah.

[00:12:15] Jeff: I’d be down. I’m not trying to minimize this, but what, the thing that I really liked was when the military in the beginning was telling citizens, Hey, look like, be careful. And what you’re doing here is you’re shooting out tires. You’re setting the forest on fire. If they’re coming through the forest, like I appreciated that the military was giving advice to people that wasn’t just like, get out there and martyr yourself.

[00:12:37] Right? Like, um, and, uh, and I’m super, just anxious for all of those

[00:12:43] Christina: things.

[00:12:44] Brett: I would like to point out that friend of the show, Harold, Chris Harold, uh, says, hold tight. I’m going to report Jeff and Christina for trying to get you to commit self harm by looking at tic-tac in response to our, in response to our last episode. [00:13:00]

[00:13:01] Christina: Well look, just, just, just continue doing your, your compilations, you know, just continue to keep your compilations. You’ll be fine.

[00:13:07] Brett: Um, there’s the science teacher, uh, vowel, uh, man, I forgot his name, but he does take compilations on YouTube where he just like spit science and it’s been fascinating. Like it’s the kind of thing that makes me think tic-tac maybe isn’t all bad.

[00:13:29] Christina: Well it’s,

[00:13:29] Jeff: I don’t understand. I I’m getting a lot of this vibe when I talk about Tik TOK lately, it’s like anything on the internet, right? Like it’s like, you have to use the skills that you’ve developed with which. We all have developed these both as journalists and as people to like, know where to turn and where to take the exit ramp and where to like accelerate.

[00:13:48] Right? Like I think if you do that, Tik TOK for me is a lot like early Twitter where like I’m looking at people working on fishing boats, I’m looking at people talking from their, you know, [00:14:00] living room on Ukraine and putting their phone out the window. Like I’m a total. Like first person nerd. Like I just, I love, I love seeing people do the thing they do in a way that is, is, is as like clean a window into their lives as possible.

[00:14:16] Tech doc has that. It also has a lot

[00:14:18] Christina: of fucked up stuff.

[00:14:19] Brett: my, here’s my question about Tik TOK and the Ukrainian conflict is so writers has a Twitter account called Reuters fact check and they, they fact check and they fact check Twitter in real time. And, um, one of the things that has been prevalent is the number of photos and videos that are being mis-attributed.

[00:14:44] To the present conflict. And there are just so many images and so many videos that have that date back to like 2 20 19 that are not part of what’s happening is tic-tac [00:15:00] more reliable because it’s more alive.

[00:15:02] Christina: no. It’s worse. It’s worse. It’s worse because the a you can upload stuff and people don’t know B the way the video is crunched down and, and, um, and you know, so, so the quality would be harder to ascertain. So it’s not even becomes like a, oh, well, this looks like an older video thing. Cause you’re like, well, I don’t know, you know, like, is, is, is that new or not?

[00:15:21] Uh, see, um, the fact that. By nature people remix and edit stuff in the app. I mean, I think, I think, yeah. So you were going to end up like, I think it’s significantly worse. Oh my God. Yes.

[00:15:33] Jeff: I mean, it’s, it’s completely worse. And by no means, am I saying, Hey, everybody go learn about the war, you know, by looking at Tik TOK, but I absolutely positively have located people that are useful to me in part, I mean, it started with a, an acquaintance of mine, an old colleague of mine.

[00:15:48] Who’s there now reporting for vice news. Um, he himself has just a great as Matthew castle is his name. He has a great account on Tik TOK where he’ll just be kind of walking through Ukraine, talking and showing things, [00:16:00] but. It’s so hard and you have to be so careful, but you can, you know, baby step your way to a list of people that you can do, you can depend on essentially.

[00:16:09] Right. Um, but also, I mean, it’s not just, it’s not just a video from old conflicts, like there’s this military combat simulator, um, that has already been on Tik TOK. Quite a while. And it looks for all the world, like a real conflict happening. It looks like actual shooting down of planes. And the footage from that game has been being presented as footage from Ukraine and the dev, the developer of the game has been like, please don’t do that.

[00:16:37] Right. Like, which is like, well, you can’t put that one back in the bottle, buddy, but still

[00:16:40] Christina: like, no, I was going to say there was also a gap there there’ve been things like that. I’ve seen things where there’ve been like, like a, um, a flight SIM flight attack, SIM things. The same thing you’re talking about.

[00:16:52] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We’re, we’re honestly, I’ve looked at those and if I was, if I were to see that on talk, I would have no way of even knowing that was from a [00:17:00] game. And I feel like I have a good, I feel like I have a better grasp than most I’m being able to tell those things. And I look at that, I’m like, Nope, there’d be absolutely no way that I would have any idea that that was like computer generated.

[00:17:10] And that is to me. What actually makes this war also because of the misinformation element that benefits, uh, Putin, um, and, and also benefits people who are just out for clicks. Uh, and, and for anything else, like it makes this. A different kind of war feels like or different types of, you know, w w w w however, we’re classifying this, this, um, incident.

[00:17:37] I mean, I think what would they’ve done is an act of war, but you know what I mean? Like how we’re classifying this, that this event, this feels different. Other things we’ve seen, not in so far, even that it’s televised 24 7 or that the people are, are broadcasting stuff. Cause that’s all accurate. That’s all happened before.

[00:17:56] But the fact that there’s now this disinformation element for various [00:18:00] reasons, and that that is happening in a way that it is not easy to ascertain in real time. Like what is real and what is.

[00:18:07] Jeff: Totally. And actually, as you talk, I’m realizing, let me just be clear about the guy moving the landmine with a cigarette.

[00:18:14] I have no idea if that’s from Ukraine, but that type of footage is sort of what I was like conjuring up. Um, and that’s also just an amazing, uh, little clip of footage.

[00:18:24] Brett: Wouldn’t it be crazy if I could segue from this into a sponsor.

[00:18:29] Christina: I think you can. I think you can,

[00:18:31] Brett: Aye. Aye. I’m not comfortable with it. We’re gonna, we’re gonna wait a little bit.

[00:18:35] Christina: Okay. Cause I was just going to say, we could just shut out everything going on in the world. Just like you want to shut out your

[00:18:40] Jeff: blinds. Yeah, for

[00:18:42] Brett: Oh man.

[00:18:44] Christina: see. I did it

[00:18:45] Brett: You did. You did do it.

[00:18:47] Christina: so well.

[00:18:48] Brett: now I feel like now I feel obligated. Do you want to shut out the horrors of the world who doesn’t live, [00:19:00] who doesn’t love to live? well.

[00:19:02] Oh my God, this feels wrong. Okay.

[00:19:06] Christina: Oh,

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[00:20:58] That’s probably going to require a make good

[00:20:58] Brett: Okay. [00:21:00] Okay. That, that did feel we.

[00:21:02] Christina: Yeah. I

[00:21:04] Jeff: like how you spent most of the reads, still trying to convince yourself that this could somehow fit.

[00:21:10] Brett: They’re going to, we’re going to have to do a, make good on that read. I’m sure of it. Um,

[00:21:18] Jeff: Look at it. Like here’s something for that read. Like the read was sincere, the read was earnest and these times are insane. And, and we absolutely had to figure out how to get from something totally extreme and insane and terrifying into something that is just a part of the drum beat of everyday life.

[00:21:36] Right. Like that’s it. You got to do it.

[00:21:40] Brett: Is it.

[00:21:40] ever weird to you that Matthew has two teeth.

[00:21:44] Christina: Yeah,

[00:21:44] Jeff: always.

[00:21:45] Brett: Shouldn’t that be pronounced Matt Matthew, Matthew.

[00:21:48] Christina: Possibly. Yeah.

[00:21:50] Brett: Anyway, so my rabbi, uh, ping me on Saturday, I think and said for [00:22:00] the like 50 a times, like you should get an acute. He wants to play games with me and with an Oculus. And I finally, I broke down, so I just went to temple last week and I felt I was feeling, uh, vulnerable to the charms of a rabbi.

[00:22:17] And.

[00:22:17] Christina: Yeah.

[00:22:18] Brett: And so he’s like, you should order an Oculus. And he sent me like his like affiliate link. If, if I order through him, we both get like $30 in free games or whatever. And I was like, fucking fine. Let’s let’s do this. So I have ordered an Oculus. It will be delivered today. I have no idea what I’m getting into. It’s my rabbi’s fall.

[00:22:44] Christina: I mean, I do kind of love that, uh, for you, honestly, I feel like that’s, that’s going to be fun. Um, so I’m excited for you for that.

[00:22:52] Brett: I gotta say, like, I go, I go, I go to temple where. Where the rabbi, they, they, [00:23:00] 100% accept atheist like,

[00:23:02] that is there are members of their congregation that are atheist, and it is an accepted thing that an atheist might find fellowship and community in a Jewish temple. And, and I appreciate that. And every once in a while, I just show up for temple and I find it.

[00:23:24] I love the music. I love how they sing everything and semi atonal. I love it. I do

[00:23:34] Jeff: Ritual

[00:23:34] Christina: man. Yeah. Well, and I mean, and there is, I mean, there’s also like I personally, and this is, I think this is great. It seems like you found a place and you have like a rabbi, you have this with, but like community has been historically a really big part. Uh, you know, fellowship, you know, that that’s the whole, the whole thing.

[00:23:52] And so, I mean, that, that is one of the reasons that, that I think that organized religion has been as popular and

[00:23:59] Brett: this [00:24:00] it’s just like alcoholics anonymous. Like you go there for the fellowship. That’s that’s what works for people.

[00:24:08] Jeff: I’m just adding something to the show notes here, Oculus colon, a rabbi, and a programmer walk into the

[00:24:17] Christina: metaverse. Oh, that’s so much better. That’s so much better.

[00:24:21] Brett: Rabbi Eric Linder. And I started a podcast a long time ago called a rabbi and an atheist. And I CA I was like discuss apple. And we were, it was a technology podcast with, with a good dose of theology and, and antitheism all built into it. And we recorded like three episodes. I still have them.

[00:24:45] It was never published. But, but it did. It always sounded like the beginning of a good joke.

[00:24:52] Jeff: Can you tactically, like I know with Oculus, like there are people who COVID. Uh, in sort of a [00:25:00] metaverse like situation using their Oculus calculi. Um, is that something like, is that, is it down the road? Is it going to be people recording podcasts? Like you could throw your Oculus on and you’re all in there.

[00:25:13] Yeah, it’s pretty, it’s a pretty basic

[00:25:15] Brett: like

[00:25:15] Jeff: question. I know.

[00:25:16] Brett: vision of the future. I’m sorry. Metta,

[00:25:19] Christina: metas. It is definitely met as vision of the future is they’re like, yeah, we’ll all have our, I mean, it’s second life, but like you have a helmet.

[00:25:27] Jeff: Yep. Second live with a helmet. Exactly.

[00:25:31] Christina: Episode title a

[00:25:35] Jeff: second.

[00:25:35] Christina: Like.

[00:25:36] Brett: Timmy. Um, so yeah. Um, have you guys watch raising Dion?

[00:25:47] Christina: No.

[00:25:47] Brett: Oh my God. So. Th a new season of raising Dion just came out and I was very excited about it, but I also felt like it was something my girlfriend could [00:26:00] get into. Uh, so we watch the entire first season. Again, we finish it. We’re halfway through the second. season.

[00:26:06] Now it’s a story of a kid who gets super powers from his. His deceased father, uh, like before, before he sees deceased, he got super powers, but they were Like.

[00:26:21] passed onto him. And like, it’s the story of raising this kid with super powers and No.

[00:26:27] one knows exactly what he can do. And, and he’s like discovering them as he goes.

[00:26:33] And they, I feel like keep him out of school because who knows who he can hurt with the super powers and. It. Okay.

[00:26:40] And here’s the thing I just realized in the last week is the cast is primarily black. Like the show

[00:26:50] Christina: I’m looking this up and I’m seeing this. I was like, yeah, this is like a black show.

[00:26:53] Brett: The show.

[00:26:54] is presented in such a way that I never realized it never dawned [00:27:00] on me that it was an entirely minority cast where white people were.

[00:27:06] The minority and like, you don’t, you don’t even, like, it’s not a forefront thing. It’s, it’s kind of amazing. It’s really good.

[00:27:19] Jeff: That’s a good cast. I’m just

[00:27:20] Christina: looking through it. I was saying I was like looking at it too. Um,

[00:27:24] Brett: very hot people in their show, not like vampire

[00:27:29] Jeff: wait, so it’s been going on for a while or

[00:27:31] Christina: what it

[00:27:32] Brett: It, it came out a couple years ago and then I thought Netflix had kind of like.

[00:27:38] unofficially canceled it. There just were no new episodes. And then a new season came out all of a sudden. So, and they jumped, they age everyone two years.

[00:27:50] Uh, well, at least according to the storyline two years and, and everyone is just that much older. They, they let it, they let there be a [00:28:00] jump in time. It was good. Yeah, it

[00:28:03] Christina: Well, yeah, I, it looks like they were renewed in 2020, and then obviously they couldn’t do anything in 2020, so

[00:28:10] Brett: they do not address. I do not address the pandemic in the plot line.

[00:28:16] Christina: you know, and I, and I appreciate that.

[00:28:18] Brett: Yeah, there’s a place for Like, escape as a

[00:28:21] Christina: Yeah, exactly. I was also gonna say like that, cause at that point too, like if, if you’re, if you’re going to go along with a concert that like a kid can have super powers that were passed onto him by his now deceased father, if you’re going to like go along with that conceit, then you have to like ask questions.

[00:28:35] Like, okay, well, if you. We have these super superpowers. Why weren’t you doing anything during the pandemic? Right. Like you have to, you know what I mean? Like, so, so, so to me, so that takes you out of the reality that you’ve agreed with. So I appreciate not acknowledging the

[00:28:52] Brett: her to know? Who

[00:28:52] Christina: have at the time jump.

[00:28:53] Brett: do you want to know who the real star of the show is? It’s this character named Esperanza and [00:29:00] she is wheelchair bound. I looked up the actress. She, this is her first foray into acting she was born with. I can’t remember the medical name for it, but it’s like the brittle bone disease.

[00:29:13] And she was born with like 19 fractures and. They pieced her back together and she spends her life in a wheelchair, but she kills it as this spunky wheelchair bound girl who decides upfront she’s going to be Deon’s best friend. And like, she introduces herself as your best friend. You just don’t know it yet.

[00:29:41] And her role in this show is pivotal. And she is an amazing young actor. And I recommend watching the show just to get to know Esperanza.

[00:29:55] Christina: Awesome. Okay. All right. I, I. Or would have ever [00:30:00] watched a show like this, just cause like, it seems like a family sort of show, but I’m I’m into it and you’re making it sound good. So also it takes place in Atlanta and it’s not just filmed in Atlanta, which pisses me off because everything’s filmed in Atlanta now.

[00:30:12] And yet they, people, they have, like, they don’t acknowledge it and I’m like, okay, I’m looking this up. I’m like, thank

[00:30:19] Jeff: you. Half of the Ukraine footage I’m looking at is from Atlanta.

[00:30:22] Christina: Honestly, it is. And I can tell that’s the only thing I can tell. Cause like, oh look, look, look at this bully. I’m like, that’s the fucking Coke building.

[00:30:29] Shut up.

[00:30:30] Brett: Here’s the thing is it is a family show and I was happy to recommend it to my parents as well, but I. So our TV watching lately has been very vampire centric. I am currently watching the originals, uh, discovery of witches and the vampire diaries. All at the same time,

[00:30:57] Christina: Okay. All right. So the vampire diaries is going to [00:31:00] get real bad. At a certain point and you’re not going to want to finish it. I’m just going to tell you that right now.

[00:31:04] Brett: I am already on the fence with the vampire died. However, I’m very into the originals. I can do the originals and, and, and discovery, which is the only thing I don’t like about discovery of witches is that they whisper the whole fucking time. And I have to turn on subtitles to figure out what’s happening.

[00:31:26] Christina: So, so the only thing you haven’t added to this, and I’m just going to mention it just because it had kind of a resurgence in pop culture last year, like. Why are you not watching the Mormon vampires? Why did you not watch the Twilight saga? Why have you not watched that? Huh?

[00:31:40] Jeff: Huh? Hi answer. Don’t just stay in there.

[00:31:44] I

[00:31:44] Christina: love that.

[00:31:45] Brett: Okay. So I have never been attracted to vampire fiction. Like it just holds no, uh, gravitation for me. So I’m, I’m watching all of this at, at [00:32:00] my girlfriend’s behest.

[00:32:02] Christina: Right. So my point is, why are you not watching the Twilight films?

[00:32:06] Brett: I don’t know. I will admit, I do find Chris and Stewart attractive.

[00:32:12] Christina: Well, and, and, and, and, and he is super hot and, and he’s super hot

[00:32:17] Brett: you say he do you mean.

[00:32:19] Christina: Yes. I mean, I mean our paths, I mean, that end. Yes.

[00:32:25] Brett: Okay. Like, I, I can get into attractive people. That’s fine. I

[00:32:29] Christina: I mean.

[00:32:30] Brett: this built up this buildup of version. It’s the same reason. I’ve never seen legends of the fall as hot as I consider Brad Pitt, that movie made so many people swollen that I just instinctively avoided.

[00:32:47] Christina: Well, I mean, look, and I want to be very clear. The Twilight films are not good, but there is something that’s culturally like, but, but, but the vampire diaries is not good. Um, I, and, and like, you know what I mean? But there’s something [00:33:00] about them I think is about. that enough time has passed, that we can kind of appreciate them in like a, it almost ironic sense.

[00:33:08] Like during pandemic, a lot of, like, I had like a number of like my married, like adult friends who were like, we’re watching the Twilight movies and I was like, yeah. Okay. I can, I can actually kind of see that at this point. Um, I, uh, the, the first time I ever went to Comicon was the first year that Twilight was there and holy shit.

[00:33:28] Brett: Which Comicon.

[00:33:30] Christina: Uh, 2009 and it was, um, San Diego, Comic-Con sorry. Uh, th th th th the Comic-Con and, and holy sh. Yeah.

[00:33:40] Brett: rest of you. You Chicago people are fucking,

[00:33:43] Christina: uh, no, nothing else compares, honestly, it’s like, not even the same universe and, and holy shit, like, like Holly H, which is like the biggest hall where, you know, all, all the fanboys, everybody gathered.

[00:33:57] Teenage girls started getting there like four [00:34:00] days early, like as early as you could possibly get there. And, and, and it was, I’ve never seen more people in my life. It was honestly kind of scary. Like I w I w I would have been scared by where the actors, like, genuinely, like, I would have actually been like, worried, like if they could have had production or not, like, it was the most insane thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

[00:34:16] And to this day, like people kind of part point that as like the marker, like of when like Comicon became. Absolutely batshit insane and like went super mainstream and it’s because the teen girls showed up, which honestly love that for them. Right. I love that.

[00:34:30] Brett: like that’s the Taylor swift story.

[00:34:33] Christina: 100%, but like they completely, but yeah, they like completely invaded like this very anti female space. Like, let’s be very real and, and completely like, took it over, like in a level that like how fanboyed all of like the dudes, which is also like the, the, the Taylor swift story. Um, and, uh, but yeah, uh, I, that was like, For a long time.

[00:34:57] I had a hard time kind of even [00:35:00] ever watching any of that stuff. Just be, Hey, cause it’s not that good. And B um, I just had like PTSD, like flashbacks of being, because the interesting thing with the San Diego Comic-Con press does not get any special access. Um, unless you were moderating a panel. You are having to do the same shit that everybody else does.

[00:35:22] And that means that if you want to be at those panels and do that stuff, you have to fight. And, you know, like, like sand tall with like the same freaking fans who will be willed out and stretchers and girls were because they like, because of, of, uh, you know, standing up too long and he exhausted and all that.

[00:35:42] Jeff: Oh man. Hey, so, okay. I, something I want to say about a found papers did either of you see the Jim Jarmusch movie only lovers left alive, which is a, um, vampire movie.

[00:35:54] Brett: No.

[00:35:55] Jeff: I didn’t, but, um,

[00:35:56] Brett: Didn’t He also do the one more recently with, [00:36:00] uh,

[00:36:00] Jeff: He did a zombie movie and Iggy pop as a zombie and he, and he hates the zombies. Then I just wanted to read this quote because I just played the zombie movie.

[00:36:08] Um, the dead don’t die for my youngest son who loved it. And I was looking up, I was like, I didn’t read any interviews that Jim Jeremy’s around this and he has this great line about vampires versus some, he says, I’m not a zombie fan. I’m more of a vampire guy. They’re complicated. They’re sexual, they’re smart.

[00:36:25] They have difficult things they need to do to survive. They’re shape-shifters now there are bad. Now they’re a Wolf. They’re fucking cool. What’s cool. About a zombie they’re lifeless forms. They’re soulless human aides. Humanoids. They’re an excuse.

[00:36:38] Brett: Oh, my God, You have.

[00:36:40] set up the segue from vampire fiction to the walking dead beautifully. We should throw in a sponsor here while we’re on an upswing.

[00:36:51] Christina: Yeah, I was going to say actually that I was, I was thinking of that same thing. I was like, okay, now we have to talk about the walking dead. But before we do that, [00:37:00]

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[00:37:35] Brett: Yes, now that I have switched. So like, I don’t make new year’s resolutions. That, that to me, that that’s some bullshit. I did want to save money this year because I finally make enough money in my day job that I can actually save some things. So I’m kind of obsessed with saving more and going from my [00:38:00] hundred plus dollar a month, bill to 15 bucks a month has felt like exactly.

[00:38:06] And I am. I’m a happy mint, mobile customer. Uh, I will continue to be a met mobile customer, all the coverage of T-Mobile, uh, 5g and yes, I’m loving it.

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[00:39:15] Speaking of data you never use

[00:39:15] Brett: Speaking of data you never use,

[00:39:18] Christina: Yeah.

[00:39:18] Brett: you know, so the weird, the weird difference between, okay, not weird. The obvious difference between vampires and zombies. His agency

[00:39:31] Christina: Ooh. Yeah. No. Well, okay. Well agency and so far as I guess,

[00:39:38] Brett: are very in control

[00:39:40] Christina: well, they are.

[00:39:41] Brett: immortality.

[00:39:43] Christina: Well, yes and no, right? Like they are, but at the same time, like you don’t choose to, well, unless you’re like Bella in, in the Twilight novels, like you don’t choose to become

[00:39:52] Brett: No, there are all these cases of someone asking to be turned.

[00:39:56] Christina: Okay. Sure. But, okay. Fair enough.

[00:39:59] Brett: the [00:40:00] mythology. That’s what I’ve learned is every vampire show has a different like

[00:40:05] Christina: I everyday Meyer’s show has like a different girl that wants to flock and is like, go ahead and turn me by my neck. Yeah.

[00:40:12] Brett: but then you’ve got zombies who are just turned by, you know, a virus or whatever, based on that mythology.

[00:40:20] Christina: Right. And, and then they don’t have the same agency. I think it is. Does it feel to you like, to me it feels like, okay, if you get turned in your vampire, like you still have your brain, but like, if you’re a zombie, like you basically like,

[00:40:32] Brett: you’re a mindless

[00:40:33] Christina: yeah, exactly.

[00:40:34] Brett: zombie, if you will. Okay.

[00:40:37] Christina: I see what you did there.

[00:40:38] Jeff: Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Well done. Well done. You are, you are just like walking dead.

[00:40:45] Brett: So, yeah,

[00:40:45] Jeff: what you’re trying to say?

[00:40:46] Brett: the epitome of zombie fiction became the walking dead. And I know that Jeff, it was actually a pretty recent thing for you. Wasn’t it? That you started watching the

[00:40:58] Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:59] Jeff: And [00:41:00] when it comes to TV, always late to the party, when it comes to actual parties, always early to leave.

[00:41:09] Um, yeah, I came to it late. I, you know, it was about maybe six months ago. It’s like, ah, I’ll try it. I was going through this whole thing where for the longest time, like I tend to not pursue shows where like a kid is killed in the first episode. Not, it just became weirder for me when I had kids. And I also just feel like from a storytelling perspective, it’s like, You got to work a little harder to get me in.

[00:41:31] Right. It’s like, I also now just like will not watch a show where like there’s a rape scene in the first episode. I mean, like, you can do it in the second episode and I’ll still turn it off. But like, if it’s written by a man directed by a man and there’s like some rape or rapey scene in the first episode, I’m just like, fuck off, fuck off like that.

[00:41:47] Like I’m not your monkey. Um,

[00:41:50] Brett: are especially.

[00:41:51] Jeff: Yeah, and yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And that’s, that’s really chilled out. I think the last show I can think of that did that was the Americans, but anyway, [00:42:00] um, yeah, Thrones. Oh yeah. Game of Thrones

[00:42:02] Christina: in the first. Yeah. The first couple of seasons was just like

[00:42:05] Jeff: first couple of seasons for sure.

[00:42:07] What about the first episode?

[00:42:09] Christina: Oh, yeah. So game of

[00:42:11] Jeff: Thrones was killing a bunch of kids in the first episode,

[00:42:13] Christina: probably wasn’t Americans. Yeah. But the thing is I’ll always

[00:42:16] Jeff: overcome. I’ll always overcome killing children. That’s the weird thing about me. Um, and so I finally overcame it and I started watching the walking dead and I really loved it for a few seasons and I did not.

[00:42:27] I made a point of. Looking at anything about the show online? Cause I didn’t want spoilers cause I still was under the impression from a couple of friends that it’s pretty good throughout. So I’m like, alright cool. I just got to stay away from this, which isn’t too hard because this is like a bazillion years old and everyone’s over it.

[00:42:44] Um, and then it started to suck and, and unfortunately the difference between binge watching something and watching something over years as a fan is that like I am more. Likely to hate watch, um, rather than just put it down. [00:43:00] And

[00:43:00] Brett: is so, easy with the

[00:43:01] Jeff: so, so I am somebody, I am somebody who has an eye. I’m not proud of this.

[00:43:06] Uh, I am somebody who has watched the walking dead from season one. Well, I can’t get through the last two episodes, but I’m trying, uh, all in a row with like a one month break. And that’s probably why I’m so fucking tired of it, but it really highlights the way in which it’s just like, when did you stop giving a shit about telling a story?

[00:43:27] It’s like so incredible. Like, I don’t even know what these new episodes do. You know, what’s taking you four sittings to watch each episode of the, of the latest season. And

[00:43:36] Brett: I don’t think I ever

[00:43:37] Jeff: off.

[00:43:38] Brett: it.

[00:43:39] Christina: Oh, yeah, no, I stopped years ago. And then, and then when I was doing in lieu of that for years, and it’s been at least six years now, as I was reading , um, IO nine, um, reviews, uh, because he hate washes it and has been hate covering it for.

[00:43:54] Forever. And, and, and I used to work together. And so I, I like read his stuff cause I just [00:44:00] like, you know, given up on, on the other stuff, I was then into return of the walking dead for a while. Yep. Um,

[00:44:07] Jeff: oh you mean the wait, are you talking about

[00:44:08] Christina: fear of the wall if you’re walking into the radio? Sorry, sorry.

[00:44:11] Sorry.

[00:44:11] Jeff: I did that for four or five seasons and then got

[00:44:13] Christina: mad. Yep, exactly. And I’m like, I’m like. Very good acting actually. And, and,

[00:44:21] Brett: well, I mean, to be.

[00:44:22] Christina: and, the actress who plays Alecia’s super, super hot,

[00:44:24] Brett: The walking, the walking dead was one of the most compelling shows on TV for, I would say four or five seasons. I was entirely invested, but

[00:44:38] it got to the point where it was so stressful to make it through a season that I, I just couldn’t any.

[00:44:44] Christina: Didn’t you cut out at Meagan?

[00:44:46] Brett: Uh, I cut out the season after like, Okay.

[00:44:49] So when I left the walking dead Nagin was in prison in it, like it was being kept in like a seller [00:45:00] prison cell and he escaped at some point. And that’s the last thing I remember.

[00:45:05] Jeff: Got it. Got it. Yeah. What about you Christina? Like how did what’s your watching history? You, so you’ve watched a little of fear, the walking dead. How much of walking

[00:45:15] Christina: dead did you watch? I don’t know. I probably stopped like five years ago. Um, and then I just read the recap and I don’t remember what happened.

[00:45:21] Like. I would have to go back in and see, and then it’s hard for me to, because I’ve read stuff. And so I don’t know. It’s hard to remember, like when I stopped, but I watched intensely for like the first, you know, like for, for a good while. And then it was just like too much of a slog. And then also when you’re not binging it, and you have to, you know, kind of make the commitment.

[00:45:44] That was when, like a lot of really good TV started coming out. So at which at one point the walking dead was part of. Right. But then I was just like, I have other things I can watch. I don’t have to watch this. So yeah.

[00:45:56] Jeff: As we’re talking, I realized that the real problem I’m having with [00:46:00] wanting to talk about the walking dead is that I have all of these.

[00:46:03] Things, I want to say that are wrong with it. That nobody gives a shit about because nobody’s been watching it for like years and years. And they’re like, dude, how long have you been asleep? Like, but can I just say my number one, the number one thing that pisses me off so much about that show is that having watched it all in a row there utter failure to create a sense of.

[00:46:25] The landscape for me, like this place is this far from this place, this place is north and west of this place. Like this is where they are right now when they’re walking down the like million dirt road with woods. And by the way, the second they do this one shot, then the zombie is going to be here. Like it’s like, I feel like such a missed opportunity because landscape is so.

[00:46:49] Um, so much a part of how they experienced their life in those days. Like I was like, I, and I actually don’t, I don’t in my mind have a good example. This turns into a more interesting [00:47:00] question than it is a critique. I don’t have a good example that comes to mind about. About a show, especially, or even a movie creating a really clear sense, um, of, of where you are.

[00:47:12] Except maybe as I talk, I see those incredible overhead shots in the first season of true detective, um, where I feel like they did a lot of showing you right where you are.

[00:47:23] Brett: season of shooting

[00:47:24] Christina: Yeah.

[00:47:25] Jeff: The third one was good too. The second one was

[00:47:27] Brett: I think I gave up after the second one.

[00:47:30] Jeff: Oh, you rightly so. But the third is fantastic for me. At least I thought it was fantastic.

[00:47:34] Brett: All right.

[00:47:35] Jeff: The second one is shit. And that guy is, is a piece of shit. The guy who wrote it

[00:47:39] Brett: We got to talk about the center sometime.

[00:47:42] Christina: Yeah, we do. The center was really good. Um, also I, I have to run in like three minutes. Okay.

[00:47:48] Jeff: And you folks have been so nice because not only have you had me on three times for you even entertained my walking dead topic, which I realized halfway through, I had no right.

[00:47:56] Bringing to any.

[00:47:57] Christina: No, I don’t think no, but [00:48:00] honestly we’ve all been there. Like, look, Brett has Brett is discovering the brand fire diaries and, uh, you know, like, look, it, it is like, it is like 2012, um, in both of your lives, which I’m a big fan of, uh, the great year for me. So I, I, uh, you know, it’s so yeah.

[00:48:19] Brett: Can I just,

[00:48:20] Christina: for that.

[00:48:20] Brett: can I just point out that in our show notes, I am able to type bang, like exclamation point IMD. Raising Dion highlight it, hit a shortcut key and get a markdown link to the IMD B link for raising Dion and search link is honestly the most useful tool I’ve ever

[00:48:44] Christina: Oh, man. Have you ever

[00:48:45] Jeff: heard of Brett

[00:48:46] Christina: Terpstra? Yeah, I was going to say he loves shit.

[00:48:49] Jeff: That’s a total Brent turf.

[00:48:51] Christina: I was going to say, I mean, you basically built that IMDP thing. I think originally for me, um, I,

[00:48:59] Brett: It is, it [00:49:00] is based on my early texts, a text mate bundles that I built.

[00:49:05] Christina: Yeah. One of them would, the IMDP thing was built for me. So I very much appreciate that.

[00:49:12] Brett: All right. Well, Hey guys. Thanks for joining us,

[00:49:17] Jeff: Thank you for having me. I’m literally going to get some sleep down.

[00:49:20] Brett: Thanks. Thanks for showing up at six in the middle.

[00:49:22] Christina: Yeah.

[00:49:23] Jeff: So my God

[00:49:24] Christina: amazing. Yes. Now I’m off to my next podcast. I wish I was joking.

[00:49:29] Jeff: Good luck.

[00:49:29] Christina: Good luck.

[00:49:31] Brett: Hey guys, Get some sleep.

[00:49:33] Christina: Get some sleep. Get some sleep.