269: Cable Cutters Anonymous

From overtired regrets to the death of Google Reader, this New Year’s episode will… I don’t know, keep you warm in the middle of winter? Or something.


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Overtired 269

[00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren here with Brett strep. Brett, how are you?

[00:00:10] Brett: I am. I am well rested, but you know how, like when you sleep too much, you get super tired.

[00:00:15] Christina: Yes,

[00:00:16] Brett: Like I could go back to sleep, like right now I could fall asleep.

[00:00:20] Christina: that’s funny. Yeah, I’ve had, okay, so I’m in Atlanta as we record this. So if I sound weird, this is why. And also if you, your intermittent dog barking in the background, I apologize. There is nothing I can do about the dogs. Um, same with, if you hear a baby, an errant baby cry, although hopefully that won’t be caught on audio anyway.

[00:00:40] Um, yeah, I’m in Atlanta and I have had some good sleep, some not great sleep, but, uh, I do know what you’re talking about in terms of like, when you are sleeping for so long and then you’re like, Yeah. I just want to continue to sleep.

[00:00:55] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. For like the last two nights I’ve slept like I think nine and a half hours. [00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Christina: Wow. That’s good stuff.

[00:01:01] Brett: Like my, like that, like last time we recorded, I’d been up for like two or three days and I was in rough shape and I don’t even, I don’t even know how that episode went. I was scared to listen to it. I did like rough edits and just published it because good Lord.

[00:01:18] W w what do I say when I’m that tired? I don’t

[00:01:20] Christina: Well, we had Brian on, well, we talked about anal sex is what happened.

[00:01:24] Brett: I remembered that because I took a note that the title of the episode would be a real genius guide to anal sex, a literal genius. Got, but I don’t remember why it’s okay

[00:01:37] Christina: the one who brought it up

[00:01:38] Brett: Yeah, that adds up that that totally tracks.

[00:01:42] Christina: really tracks.

[00:01:42] Brett: Yeah. But anyway, um, the, uh, like shortly after that, I kinda like the mania broke and I just, I became stable, but I just wanted to sleep a lot, which is I’m cool.

[00:01:58] I like sleeping it’s work. That’s where I’m [00:02:00] a pirate. Sorry, Ralph wigwam quote, I it’s people just, it, there was a

[00:02:06] Christina: That’s where I’m a Viking.

[00:02:07] Brett: there’s there’s like a, there’s like a, an era in time where it was okay to have a sentence quote for everything. And just like, just be able to like whip out the Simpsons quotes. And then it got to be like, oh, you’re, you’re stale.

[00:02:21] If you do that. And then we hit now where it’s been long enough that

[00:02:26] Christina: I feel like it’s coming back.

[00:02:27] Brett: while young people have no idea, I don’t think

[00:02:31] Christina: No, I don’t think they

[00:02:31] Brett: no young people are going back and watching reruns of the Simpsons. They had their day.

[00:02:37] Christina: Yeah,

[00:02:38] I; mean, I don’t know. They might, they might not. it it’s, it’s interesting to me, I would be curious to talk to people about that. I feel like, I feel like this is one of the disadvantages of us being kind of like this peak TV period where there’s so much television, is that there is better television, in my opinion, that is that I would, I would, in some ways, love to have like young people [00:03:00] discover, like I would love, it’s not on streaming?

[00:03:02] so that’s a whole other thing, but like news radio, which I contend is, is the greatest, you know, like workplace at com other than Mary Tyler Moore, and maybe Larry Sanders, depending on how you ranked that.

[00:03:13] Um, I feel like young people would actually really like it and I feel like it holds up, you know, like it’s, it’s a Reverend and it’s funny. And the Simpsons, I don’t know. Um, it’s been on crackle intermittently. I mean, Sony owns it and it’s not like they, it’s not like it’s a rights issue. I have a feeling.

[00:03:32] You know, it, it never did super well, but that was also because they changed the time slots, like 18 times. So it never had a chance to find an audience. It was critically acclaimed. Um, I mean, it did well enough for them to, to do all the DVDs and, and do some of the best commentary tracks I have to add. Um, like they got one of the, uh, executives who was responsible for moving it to all those various time slots because he didn’t like the show and they got him on one of the commentary tracks and basically got him [00:04:00] to admit, Yeah.

[00:04:00] I just didn’t like her. Which is really funny. Um, but, um, I don’t know that that’s a weird, like omission I’m like that more than likely be cheap for Netflix or somebody to just grab. But I feel like there’s shows like that, that I feel like could you, well, um, again, some of the real classics, like Mary Tyler Moore show and cheers and, and, and even Frazier, you know, I feel like, um, a lot of, a lot of people would discover and the Simpsons it’s still in syndication and it’s still obviously airing, but I feel like, you know, like the first like saw like probably 13, 14 seasons, I mean, really the first eight are great, but you Can you can go well into, you know, the first 14 seasons where you still have good stuff and it’s so quotable, but especially those first seven seasons are just like perfect for seven, eight seasons.

[00:04:53] There’s just like fantastic television. Um, I that, that I, I wish that, that maybe the younger [00:05:00] generation could discover it. I, know that when, before Disney bought, um, Um, when FX, uh, launched their app or whatever, this was God, probably seven years ago. They had like an, every Simpsons ever marathon where they brought it to streaming.

[00:05:17] And you could like, they have like a special place in the app where you could like watch all the Simpsons episodes and then Disney sort of ruined that a little bit. They, they fixed it when, when they, when they made it part of Disney plus, but like for the first year or so, they, they fucked up what Fox had fixed, which was originally like, they reframed everything is like 16 by nine instead of four by three.

[00:05:39] And it’s like, you miss out on jokes and shit. Um, and then, um, and then Disney finally, after a year, like fix that, but they were slow to it. I’m like, come on, like literally the work was done for you. Like the, the other app that had this whole Simpsons rolled aspect, like fixed it. But, but the Simpson’s world aspect, like the Simpsons world app, like even had [00:06:00] some of the extra features and commentaries and things like that, which I don’t think Disney has brought over.

[00:06:05] I don’t know, it’s a shame because the Simpsons is one of these, like, it’s hard. It’s, it’s hard to remember. Like, I was seven when it started, but it’s like hard to remember what it was like before the Simpsons existed, because it’s literally been on TV more than some longer than some of our listeners have been alive.

[00:06:25] So

[00:06:26] Brett: can I can I tell you great. Doesn’t listen to the show, right?

[00:06:29] Christina: he does not

[00:06:30] Brett: Okay. Um, I’m going to tell you this and, and I mean, no offense, cause I don’t know, grant all that well, like I only knew grant as kind of the editor of download squad and we didn’t have a lot of interaction outside of that, but in my mind he was always comic book guy.

[00:06:49] Christina: Oh, totally. Totally. Um, no, no. Um, I mean, although the weird thing is like, he’s not that into the comic book things, [00:07:00] but, but yeah, he can be pedantic like that.

[00:07:04] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s so much about the comic books as the, uh, just the, uh, the, uh, cervic pedantic. Yeah.

[00:07:11] Christina: Nick beard. Nick beard. Yeah, totally.

[00:07:13] Brett: I, I I’ve always loved grant. Don’t don’t take that the wrong

[00:07:16] Christina: Oh, I don’t, I don’t know. I mean, trust me. Yeah. You’re not wrong. Um, I’m also glad he doesn’t listen to this because he would probably be offended, but you’re not wrong at all. So

[00:07:25] Brett: Do you think that the Simpsons are doing themselves a disservice by being, by putting out new episodes?

[00:07:32] Christina: at this point,

[00:07:33] Brett: I agree. I, I feel like they’re tarnishing their legacy with every mediocre season that comes out now.

[00:07:39] Christina: I agree. I feel like family guy is the same way.

[00:07:42] Brett: Oh my God. Timely guy

[00:07:44] Christina: I haven’t watched it in years totally. But you know, what’s fucked up. American dad still funny.

[00:07:49] Brett: I, I never got into American dad, but now that you say that maybe like, I still enjoy Bob’s burgers. I consider Bob’s burgers far superior to Simpson’s [00:08:00] or, or family guy at

[00:08:02] Christina: 100%. Oh, it’s it’s it still is. And it’s been on for a long time now. Right. But like Bob’s burgers I think is still good. Um, yeah. Simpsons, you know, they’ve gone through so many, I mean, it’s hard because you’ve got this legacy show. Um, the licensing and stuff is still selling like gangbusters. Like I was, I was shopping a couple of days before Christmas and I was in like the kid’s department and I saw so much Simpson’s shit.

[00:08:29] And I was like, I was like, apparently it’s making kind of a retro comeback. And, and I was like, okay, that’s a thing again, you know? And that’s happened several times in my lifetime. Like I remember. You know, first came out. It was like everywhere and I was six or seven. I think I just turned seven when it started.

[00:08:47] And, um, cause like the, the Christmas episode or whatever. And then it just, you know, uh, fell out of favor and then came back in again. And I think then, you know, had another kind of, uh, you know, resurgence when the movie came out and [00:09:00] now it seems like, at least with the merge, I don’t know about the show itself.

[00:09:03] Cause I don’t know, who’s watching the show, but there, I saw a number of Bart Simpson things and I was like, Huh?

[00:09:11] Okay. So I wonder if that’s part of like why they continue making it. I do know that they’ve had, um, Contract disputes with the voice actors. And there was even a time when, when I, I think it was, I think it was Harry share, but it might’ve been the, um, um, the other, um, Dan castle, Anita, who was like, I’m not going to do the voices anymore.

[00:09:35] And then they were like, okay, bye. But then they did negotiate before, like they started recording again. Um, because you know, th those, those voice actors traditionally are not well-paid people, but the Simpson’s voice cast is obviously, and absolutely, you know, like, uh, uh, Nancy Cartwright, who’s a Bart Simpson.

[00:09:56] I mean, she’s, she makes, I think she still commands like a [00:10:00] ridiculous fee per episode considering, you know, she’s doing recordings. Um, and I mean, she probably makes an episode like that would, would align well with live action stars. Um, assuming they weren’t like Oscar winning celebrity.

[00:10:16] Brett: Sure, sure.

[00:10:16] Christina: But, um, but yeah, I mean, I, you know, they, they keep trying to cut the budget, but I guess the ratings and the licensing it should is still there.

[00:10:23] But I do feel like, like the legacy is becoming tarnished the longer it goes on.

[00:10:29] Brett: Speaking of watching things,

[00:10:31] Christina: Yes.

[00:10:32] Brett: uh, if you’ve ever wanted to make your home feel safer, there’s no better time than now.

[00:10:35] Christina: Hi, perfect.

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[00:11:44] Don’t Look Now

[00:11:44] Brett: And again, speaking of watching things, not a sponsor lead-in um, did you, so I, I, I got like, I’ve logged on to Netflix and the big, like, uh, like hero ad that they showed was for, [00:12:00] uh, something I’d never heard of called don’t look up.

[00:12:03] And I, all of a sudden was hearing about it on Twitter and Facebook people talking about how great it was. And so I watched it, I had, you know, I, the day after Christmas, not technically boxing day, I think in Europe, if Christmas falls on a Saturday boxing day is on Monday. I’m not European. I don’t know.

[00:12:24] But anyway, day after Christmas, nothing to do, I watch don’t look up. Loved it. That was Netflix did a good one. Netflix said a good thing.

[00:12:32] Christina: They did know it was really? good. So that’s Adam McKay, uh, who did the big, um, the big short and, and obviously, and beep and in a prior life, before he moved to doing more serious films, he did all of the will Ferrell comedies that we love, like stepbrothers and Talladega nights. Yeah.

[00:12:50] Brett: that adds up. I love

[00:12:51] Christina: Um, and, uh, yes, they’re brothers

[00:12:53] Brett: just become best friends?

[00:12:55] Christina: Oh my God. Yes, that’s so good. Um, and, uh, [00:13:00] and so he’s actually, and, um, I know, I,

[00:13:02] thought it was really good. I thought it was, it was really, really good. I really enjoyed both the, I enjoyed all the performances. Sorry, go on.

[00:13:09] Brett: well, no, I was just going to say I tweeted that I liked it and someone wrote back. I thought it was a depressing look at our, at the current times. And I was like, yeah, that’s, that’s the fucking point. It’s definitely a commentary on political divides. And the fact that half the population can deny something they can see with their own eyes.

[00:13:31] Christina: No, it totally is. Right. And it’s totally kind of one of those expressing like depressing kind of things. And I’m like, yep. I, I, I was into it. Um,

[00:13:40] Brett: laugh, what can you do?

[00:13:42] Christina: no, I agree. Um, I also encourage people if you haven’t read it already to read the profile in GQ with Adam McKay, um, from earlier this month, or I guess last month when you’re listening to this, because this was early December and it’s, uh, it’s really good.

[00:13:59] Um, [00:14:00] it shares the unfortunate, sad news that he and will Ferrell are no longer friends.

[00:14:04] Brett: how do you not be friends with Wolf Farrell? How does

[00:14:06] Christina: Well, Okay. So they were business partners and, uh, they had like a, you know, a production company together. And then they’d kind of fell out, fell apart a little bit working wise, just because the type of stuff that Adam McKay is making is different.

[00:14:21] Although it’s funny because like Adam McKay took a certain number of properties will took a certain number and then succession is the one they’re sharing, which makes sense. Cause that’s, you know, uh, such a hit. but,

[00:14:33] Brett: Yeah.

[00:14:33] Christina: but, um, what happened is he’s working on this show about the Lakers for HBO and will Farrell wanted to be the, um, like one of the, one of the coaches and Adam McKay thought that someone else would be better in the role.

[00:14:50] And he admits this in the interview. He’s like, rather than. Telling him, he just went ahead and cast his best friend, John C. Riley in his place. [00:15:00] And then John C. Riley was like a good guy who reached out and was like, Hey, I’m going to take this part. Um, and, um, yeah, so the, the business and kind of the personal relationship is, is, is not in a good place at all, which is really sad because they were like really, really close.

[00:15:16] But, um, I’m hopeful. He’s done like a lot of press around this stuff. I, I I’m hopeful that maybe they will, uh, be able to make up because that was a very sad bromance sort of thing to me because Yeah.

[00:15:29] you know, it was like, it’s like the team behind Talladega nights and, and, and, and, you know, stepbrothers and anchorman and.

[00:15:34] Brett: Well, and it’s so like, will Ferrell fascinates me because he seems like the kind of guy, like, if you had no idea, if you had never heard anyone talk about like his personal life and you only knew him from his comedy, it would be easy to assume that he was a total asshole to two people in his personal life.

[00:15:55] Like,

[00:15:55] Christina: I can see that.

[00:15:56] Brett: because so much of his comedy is built around this personality. [00:16:00] That is, that is that that’s an asshole. Um, but then you hear people talk about like what a great guy, what a great friend he is, how nice he is to everybody. Uh, and I find, I find will Farrell fascinating. want to be friends with will Ferrell.

[00:16:18] Christina: Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. And I’m sorry, it wasn’t, uh, it wasn’t GQ. It was vanity fair that the article was, it was in. Um, but I um, I, uh, there was a good interview in GQ as well, but yeah, no, I agree. I want to be friends with will Ferrell.

[00:16:30] So funnily enough, uh, we watched my family. They hadn’t ever seen it, which I don’t know how, um, I guess, because I was maybe out of the house the year that it came out, but, uh, we’d never watched elf

[00:16:41] Brett: Oh my God,

[00:16:41] Christina: out, so we watched alpha and Christmas, which was great.

[00:16:44] Brett: was like the first year. And in a few years we didn’t watch Alfon Christmas, but that is a great Christmas movie.

[00:16:50] Christina: It is a great Christmas movie. I love that movie so much. And now apparently with that one, John Fabro, who went on to, to direct, uh, the first iron man and were the first two Ironman. And, [00:17:00] um, you know, he’s an actor, but he’s gone on to be incredibly successful director.

[00:17:03] Brett: to a Mandalorian.

[00:17:05] Christina: Yes. Um, he, um, directed elf and apparently he, according to James Khan, he and will Ferrell did not get along, which that’s. And that’s why there was never a SQL because will Ferrell, apparently in his contract had like permission for who the director could be. And it was one of those things. He was like, well, I’m not going to work with John Fabro. And you know, they, maybe, they couldn’t go forward with an elf to, without, you know, John Fabro.

[00:17:29] Brett: maybe will is a bit of an asshole.

[00:17:31] Christina: Maybe he is, I don’t know. I mean, most people seem to like him, but you know what? I have a feeling, I feel I’m feeling he’s a good guy, but

[00:17:37] Brett: he has like an NDA. He makes people, he meet sign.

[00:17:40] Christina: maybe, or maybe what it is is like, he’s a good guy, but he’s actually like a pretty shrewd and good businessman. And he’s not going to be like fucked over on stuff.

[00:17:49] Like maybe like, which fair enough. Right. You don’t get to be both feral if you are like not, you know, taking that sort of shit seriously. [00:18:00] And Adam McCabe then admitted in the vanity fair thing that he like probably fucked up by not like being direct with this friend about being like, Hey. I’d rather cast John C.

[00:18:11] Riley in this part, you know, like that does seem like that’s kind of a fucked up kind of like thing. So,

[00:18:18] Brett: Um, yeah, let’s see. I was thinking there was something that came to mind about Wilf. Oh, why do the funnier dye app stop working? Did they just stop caring about funny or die? Did

[00:18:30] Christina: Oh, I think it went out of business. Yeah. I think I’m almost pretty, I’m almost positive. Like they sold it for, for, for magic beans or something. They find there was a, there was a ringer article, I think about the death of funnier die, but yeah, funny your diet was good stuff. Um, and, uh, let me see if I can find the, the ringer article about it.

[00:18:48] Uh, the hilarious live and agonizing death of online comedy. There we go. Um, it is, this article is three and a half years old and I remembered it, [00:19:00] which I don’t know what that says

[00:19:02] Brett: like a bear trap.

[00:19:04] Christina: I was going to say, I don’t know what that says about me that like, I could, I could remember like the exact article, like, like the, the publication rather.

[00:19:11] Um, but yeah,

[00:19:13] Brett: we still tell the same stories over and over on this

[00:19:16] Christina: I was going to say, that’s the thing, like I have like this, this, this selective memory is a really screwed up thing. Uh, so yeah, but funny or die, like they, yeah, they kind of ran out of money and, and steam, I mean, similar thing has happened to kind of the onion and, um,

[00:19:30] Brett: happened to the union?

[00:19:32] Christina: well, you know, they sold it to, to Univision and then Univision, uh, made it part of like the Gawker empire.

[00:19:39] And then that was sold to the, uh, private equity flux who, um, have basically. So much of the resources. Oh, and the most recent thing with the onion nav club is that if you remember a number of God, it was more than a decade ago. Now they had like a big move where they made everybody move to Chicago because that’s where the onion was going to be.

[00:19:58] Well, now, at least for [00:20:00] AB club, and I don’t know about onion, proper, the new editor and chief of AB club is an L is in Los Angeles. So they’ve told everybody, they’re like, oh, if you want to work, if you want to basically continue to have a job, you have to move to LA from Chicago. Um, and they’re like, oh, well, it’s not mandatory.

[00:20:15] But if you want to stay employed, you have to move. And then it gets, it gets worse. Like they, they’re going to give them $5,000 in Phoenix fences,

[00:20:24] Brett: Wow. To go to LA.

[00:20:27] Christina: yeah. From Chicago. And I’m like, um, wow.

[00:20:32] Brett: hope they’re also doubling their salary.

[00:20:34] Christina: Yeah. You know, they’re not, um, so.

[00:20:38] Brett: AOL offered when, when AOL wanted to move us all to San Francisco, uh, it was optional, especially for those of us who had always been remote workers, but they basically offered to double our salary. If we

[00:20:50] Christina: Right, which is w

[00:20:51] Brett: which still wouldn’t have covered cost of living for me.

[00:20:54] Christina: 100%, but that is the correct thing to do. Like when mashville moved me to New York. Okay. [00:21:00] The original offer of how much they were going to pay me and moving, and expenses was laughable and I laughed at it. And then they gave me $10,000, which I, I don’t know if that covered it, but, but it came much closer.

[00:21:11] They did give me a raise. And then I got there and Vadim had been poached by Facebook. And so they were really freaked out. And so then they gave me another raise, literally the day I arrived. So, you know, um, and, and we were small then, like we were super, super small, then we certainly weren’t, you know, owned by private equity flux.

[00:21:31] So, um, but anyway, uh, that was, that was a weird tangent, but, um,

[00:21:38] Brett: Yeah.

[00:21:39] Christina: I’m looking at our notes. Uh, so you, you, we talked about this in the last episode, Hawkeye or two episodes ago with, with Victor. Um, so you caught up on Hawkeye. What did you

[00:21:47] Brett: Yeah. Oh yeah. So I, I had been waiting to start it because we wanted to do like wash party style with my, my girlfriend’s sister. And we finally started and we basically finished it in [00:22:00] a week and I, I enjoyed it. I don’t think I loved it as much as. Some other people did, but it was, it did remind me more of the Netflix Marvel series, which I loved like Jessica Jones and Daredevil Punisher.

[00:22:18] Like that stuff was gold to me, everything except for iron fist. But, um,

[00:22:23] Christina: Yeah. Iron fist was, it was, it was Tara.

[00:22:25] Brett: like Hawk, I got closer to that type of Marvel show and, and I did appreciate it.

[00:22:32] Christina: Yeah, and I liked it. I liked, you know, kind of like the way that it ended. Like it makes it clear that will makes it.

[00:22:37] hopeful. I guess there’ll be a second season. Um, and, and also makes it, uh, I, I wanna, I want to know more about, um, uh, uh, Clint’s wife, um, Linda Cardinale, like her character, like the stuff they were alluding to.

[00:22:50] I was like, oh, she’s really interesting. I would like to her to have like her own kind of show or her own kind of thing. Um, I thought that Haley Seinfeld was just really, really [00:23:00] good in it. And, and her chemistry with, um, uh, Florence, um, pew who played, um, um, the Yulaina, um, uh, Blackwood. It was sister, um, new black widow.

[00:23:13] I thought that their chemistry was really good too, but, um, I’ve never liked Jeremy Renner and I never really cared for Hawk item.

[00:23:19] Brett: Yeah.

[00:23:20] Christina: But of The, Marvel shows. Um, my ranking would go like, at least on Disney plus my ranking would go one division, Hawkeye low-key. And then I suppose if we have to have a ranking, then captain America and the winter soldier, um, uh, because that, that shit was is bad.

[00:23:37] Um, and,

[00:23:39] Brett: uh, what was the what’s it. Oh, the guy with the wings. What’s the guy with Mackie? Uh, no, no.

[00:23:48] Christina: Anthony

[00:23:48] Brett: Yeah. Uh, what was that show called? Uh, some ho ho what’s it. What’s that character’s name? I can’t think of the winged characters name. It’s not [00:24:00] Hawkeye. That’s a different guy. Anyway, Anthony, Mackie’s amazing that sh that sh that series was, eh,

[00:24:09] Christina: Yeah, no captain America.

[00:24:13] Brett: um, no, no, it was something and it was something in something and it wasn’t, it wasn’t just captain America. No, no. It was something in the winter soldier. Y

[00:24:28] Christina: Um,

[00:24:30] Brett: Y Siri, I’m not even talking to you. Um, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Uh, we agree it wasn’t the best one division. I think, I think I might actually.

[00:24:43] Yeah, no, Wanda vision was better.

[00:24:45] Christina: Yeah. Oh, here. Here’s what I’ll say. It was the Falcon of the winter

[00:24:48] Brett: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:24:50] Christina: Sorry. Um, okay. So if I’m being completely objective, I feel like Hawkeye was a better paced show. Like I feel like Hawkeye nailed the pacing and [00:25:00] six episodes. I feel like they nailed that stuff and their action sequences, the way they were done were good.

[00:25:04] I feel like the pacing was better, but emotionally won division for me was the best, like to me, like that’s where it like, it, it really just like got me. I felt like also the creative risks they took, but if I be completely objective, I think that objectively I could, I could see someone making the argument that Hawkeye is a better show.

[00:25:24] Uh, I just personally. Have more of an emotional connection and got more out of one division. But I feel like Hawkeye the pacing, especially they nailed like the whole kind of storytelling arc with it. Like they, they had that shit down.

[00:25:39] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I like that. That I don’t, like, I don’t know anything about the comic series. I know that he, he was deaf and, uh, and bringing that into the show was, was kind of a big deal for the comic fans, but I don’t know how the female co lead, [00:26:00] uh, plays like, is she a character in the comics?

[00:26:03] Christina: I think she is And I think her name?

[00:26:06] Is, Kate Bishop. Um,

[00:26:08] Brett: does she have like a lady Hawk name?

[00:26:10] Christina: I think she might, I don’t, I don’t know all those details. Uh, God, I wish that we had my friend demon on because he would know all the answers to

[00:26:16] Brett: where is the man? Why don’t we ever have D man on.

[00:26:20] Christina: We should have demon on, honestly, actually this is kind of fun. So I’ve for the last year or so like, oh, we haven’t done it in a, in a few weeks or in a, in a few months, I guess I should say, but me and a bunch of people who I’m new to their, their group, I know Ben, but I didn’t know anybody else.

[00:26:34] We started doing Twitter spaces when Twitter spaces was first, like in beta or whatever, where we would talk about one division and then we would talk about the other Marvel shows and we’ve, it’s become like a really fun group chat. Um, and, um, and demon used to work at Twitter and, um, and he knows like all the shit about the comics, which is awesome because I don’t know anything about that.

[00:26:57] Um, I really know, but [00:27:00] I really liked, uh, I liked what they did also the, the deaf actress that they cast, um, uh, Who, uh, she’s apparently getting her own spinoff and, um, Yeah, Maya is apparently getting a spinoff and, and she, she was good and I like it, the cast and actually deaf actress and she has a, um, um, a, uh, a fake, um, a foot or leg or whatever.

[00:27:24] So prosthesis.

[00:27:26] there you go. Um, so that was pretty awesome.

[00:27:30] Brett: Cool. Um, what, what this is. Okay. I have to, my brain is, has gone two directions, um, which I believe the word ambivalent, like people use ambivalent to mean they don’t care, but ambivalent actually means of two minds, which is where I’m at right now. Like a, I can totally lead into our second, our second and last sponsor of the day.

[00:27:58] And B [00:28:00] I have this question about app.net. I know it’s a dead service, but if you had to pick which way would you go,

[00:28:06] Christina: I think that you could go from app.net to our second sponsor actually, because it was a subscription. So I think let’s go to, let’s see, let’s go to app.net and then we can, then we can segue into our second.

[00:28:16] Brett: I’m curious to hear your take on, on what it would take for something like app.net to actually succeed, uh, for anyone who doesn’t remember apt.net. I think it’s so there’s Mastodon, right? Which continues to exist as like a federated version of a social media site, uh, where everyone can run their own Massad on servers and, and they can, they can federate, um, app.net really tried to be more of a, uh, an API based competitor to Twitter directly.

[00:28:56] And, and it, they didn’t make it like so many [00:29:00] others before them. They, they failed. I’m curious what it would take to actually succeed. Obviously you’re not going to unseat Twitter, but there’s gotta be a place there’s, there’s gotta be like, you have to be able to get to a critical mass where you could actually, I don’t know.

[00:29:20] What would it take to survive?

[00:29:22] Christina: I don’t know. I mean, it’s really difficult because, and, and, and of course fucking Mashables archive the way they ruin everything. I can’t find my very, very good. Uh, eulogy for app.nec, uh, app.net, which I paid for. Um, and, and, and actually that’s how Brianna and I have met, um, was, was we became like apt.net friends.

[00:29:45] I don’t know. I mean, the thing about app.net is that it was audacious insofar as like you had to pay to be on it and, and, and how much you paid was, was deferred. But, but it was one of those services that asked you to pay to be on it, which is one of those things that many, many [00:30:00] people always claim. Oh, well, if I was asked to pay for this or that, I would, the truth of the matter is they won’t.

[00:30:06] Um, we talked, uh, last episode about a live journal, which did succeed

[00:30:12] Brett: Uh, do you remember that through my head?

[00:30:15] Christina: well, we’ll live journal was interesting in so far as they had, you had to have an invite code once their server capacity issues were so massive. Ridiculous. Like in the early two thousands that T to grow, you know, they had to continue buying service-based.

[00:30:30] This was before you had cloud computing. This was before you had other stuff, like, like Brad was literally going to like internet and like setting the Bracks and stuff and, and, and trying it to get capacity. And so they needed money to go to pay for this. And so how they did that in the early days is that they said, okay, if you pay $15 or $25 or whatever it is, you can buy an invite code and, and get into the platform.

[00:30:52] But then you can also pay, or existing members could have a certain number of invites that they could give to other people who could start, um, a journal for [00:31:00] free. So it was one of those things, like you either had to know somebody who had a code or you had to buy one to get on the service. Um, for a couple of years, I think, I think that’s how the process worked.

[00:31:08] And that was the way they had to kind of, you know, in a pre-Facebook kind of world where he wasn’t taking venture capital, like you had to, to scale that way. And I think that that would be. If you were wanting to do it, I mean, look, obviously you can’t create a new social network because Tik TOK has proof of that.

[00:31:33] Um, uh, Tik TOK was born out of, uh, musically, which was a singing app that, uh, wasn’t that successful in the U S and, and some of that was bought. And then the, the, the Chinese turned it into, I think the most recent reports of showing that it’s like the most popular website in the U S or something like that, um, for like the last couple of months or whatever, and, uh, you know, superseding traffic from all the other [00:32:00] social networks and other big sites.

[00:32:02] Um, so, so Tik TOK is I think, proof that you can build another network. Um, Tik TOK is interesting in so far as it’s. I think it’s one of the first kind of modern social networks that is not directly tied to an identity graph, meaning I’m following interests. And I have people who might look me up in my contacts and follow me.

[00:32:23] I’m not posting anything, but it’s not like most people I follow on Tik TOK on my friends. I’m mostly following other people and other sorts of interests. So it’s a very different experience than, you know, something like Facebook or even Twitter. Um, which I think at this point, a lot of people follow people, they know, and you, you find other people through stuff, but for what APTA net could have done in terms of like a federated open, kind of paid for thing.

[00:32:48] I don’t know. I mean, I feel like obviously the thing that made it cool and special and in saved it from, you know, becoming kind of like a, an also ran was the fact that you had to pay, but that was [00:33:00] also the limiting factor in it too. So

[00:33:03] Brett: if they’d gone more for the white supremacists,

[00:33:06] Christina: maybe, no, I

[00:33:09] Brett: gone for like a gab feel.

[00:33:11] Christina: Yep. Totally, totally. Although, you know, gab is you used Mastodon or something and then mass on had to, had to ban a lot of the different mass on instances had to ban, you know, gab or this or that. I don’t know. I mean, I feel like honestly, the cool thing, the cool idea behind app.net was that it was an API sort of thing.

[00:33:27] And the whole concept that Dalton had was that you could create, not just Twitter, Twitter was one example, but you wanted to use it as something where you could do a number of other things. And like he had, I think it was called pick plays. I can’t remember what it was, but he had an Instagram competitor that was out at the same time as Instagram and Instagram one.

[00:33:45] Um, and then, you know, he, he did app.net and obviously that failed. Um, he has really good ideas though. You know, he, he’s a smart guy. I wonder though, if they’d been able to show like other use cases, like if, if people have [00:34:00] been able to build other types of apps, you know, on top of it,

[00:34:03] Brett: did try that.

[00:34:05] Christina: they did but it was, but it was limited.

[00:34:07] I feel like, I feel like if somebody, okay, I’ll put it this way. I think that. if somebody had been able to, this was, you know, seven, eight years ago, if somebody had been able to build something like discord on top of app.net, I feel I got.net would have worked because I feel like I think that. that’s the way it could have worked.

[00:34:27] Brett: Yeah. That makes sense, man. The I’ve never been on Tik TOK. The only tick-tock I’ve ever watched is like Tik TOK compilations on YouTube because I’m old. I’m almost 50. I mean, if 43, if you round up by 10, um, I’m almost 50 and I feel like I’m too old for I’m too old for tic-tac feel like it’s passed me by

[00:34:52] Christina: I mean maybe, I mean, that’s the interesting thing. Tik TOK has so many different, it’s kind of like Twitter in so far as like you have all these sub genres of tech talk. So there’s like [00:35:00] old people.

[00:35:01] Brett: is there really,

[00:35:02] Christina: There is, is it

[00:35:03] Brett: is it as racist as old people to it?

[00:35:07] Christina: I think it?

[00:35:07] depends on what part of old people tick-tock, you’re in on.

[00:35:12] And I Did find my, uh, I did find my, uh, thing lacking all of the paragraphs and, and links, but I had a Requiem for a social platform, app.net unrealized potential. Christina Warren May 8th, 2014.

[00:35:27] Brett: throw it in the show notes.

[00:35:28] Christina: I will throw it in the show notes.

[00:35:32] Brett: So speaking of subscriptions

[00:35:35] Christina: Yes.

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[00:36:16] And your true bill concierge is there when you need to cancel unwanted subscriptions. So you don’t have. No talking to humans, no difficult conversations. I’ve been using true bill for a while now. And, uh, in addition to seeing all of my subscriptions and getting notified when they change even a penny, uh, I also love how it categorizes my income and my spending automatically to budget without me ever having to do any traditional bookkeeping because I suck at paperwork and true bill makes it all automatic.

[00:36:46] It tells me like, keeps me heads up when my, uh, my paychecks are coming up, tells me how much I have left to spend, uh, before my next paycheck helps me keep track of my savings. It it’s it’s. [00:37:00] Great for managing subscriptions, but honestly, it’s so much more than that. Uh, so start canceling your unused subscriptions@truebill.com slash over tired.

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[00:37:19] Cable Cutters

[00:37:19] Brett: Speaking of overtired, wait. No, that’s what we were already doing.

[00:37:23] Christina: That’s what we were already doing. No, but, um, I, I appreciate that, uh, that last Saturday, because, you know, I canceled cable. I needed something like true bill in my life to, to get me to probably realize how much I was spending

[00:37:36] Brett: Oh, my God cable cable killed me. Cause like, I, I, I cut the cord. I cut the cord before, like Netflix was that read even a streaming service. Like you still had to get DVDs from Netflix when I, when I cut cable. But then after a couple of years, I was like, you know, maybe, maybe I miss cable. Maybe I’ll, I’ll get it again.

[00:37:56] And I try it for a month. And like, it was a hundred bucks [00:38:00] a month and I found like two shows I wanted to watch. And it just, even, even before the glut of streaming services we have now, it just was not worth it to me.

[00:38:13] Christina: Well, so a friend of mine has me.

[00:38:15] on his YouTube TV family plan for now. So I can test and see if, if I like that there is a good chance that I will wind up subscribing to YouTube TV, which just for local channels, which is still way too much to pay. And then for some other stuff, because sometimes I do like to watch linear stuff, but even if I were to do that, I would be saving like $150 a month if I paid for like the most expensive YouTube TV plan, like including HBO, max.

[00:38:43] And, and so I would $150 a month, like. Uh, when I was, when I, when I did the math and I was like, I realized, cause they’d raised my bill a couple of times and I guess I hadn’t realized it cause I’m dumb. And I, I, you know, did the chat thing to canceled with Comcast and, and then they [00:39:00] like offered me the deal.

[00:39:01] He offered me, it was like not anywhere close. And I was like, Yeah.

[00:39:04] this is still more than double what I would be paying, um, uh, YouTube TV. I can’t do it. They were like, we understand. So, uh,

[00:39:14] Brett: these days.

[00:39:15] Christina: Yeah, I’m sure. Well, well what’s funny is I’m potentially even looking for my parents. Like maybe getting them YouTube TV.

[00:39:23] Cause it’s funny. Cause they get their internet through Comcast. I do not, if I did, I probably could have gotten an even better deal, but I have fiber, but like Comcast at this point they have this thing called like, like, uh, like Xfinity flex and basically they will send like their internet subscribers, like a free set top box, kind of like a Roku type of thing where you can, you know, watch like, you know, your, your apple TV and your, um, Hulu and your Disney plus and all that shit.

[00:39:51] They now even give you the option of like watching YouTube TV on it. So you could subscribe to YouTube TV through it. And I’m like, at a certain [00:40:00] point, I doubt that con if Comcast, I wonder how much they care if they’re like, okay, well, as long as you’re using one of our boxes and, and paying for stuff through us, We don’t really care.

[00:40:11] You know, who’s, I mean, I’m sure they prefer people to pay for their overpriced, um, uh, cable, but at a certain point too, I feel like they are at least being smart enough to be like, Yeah.

[00:40:23] we are, we are in fact just a dumb pipe. And so we, we better make it easy to do that. Um, but, Uh, I see, um, But that, that was a long segue.

[00:40:37] The cable thing, this happened literally right before I left town. And so I, um, it’ll be interesting to see like what impact that has on things, but, but thank you, Jeremiah, for letting me be in your YouTube family. Uh, one weird thing about that. So if you are in someone else’s YouTube TV, family, and you don’t live in the same area, it’s a problem when you [00:41:00] first want to log in because they’re like, oh, this account hasn’t been in the home viewing area, which in his case is Charlotte.

[00:41:06] So to get around it, I had to, um, use, uh, dev tools in, um, uh, edge to spoof my, uh, lat and long coordinates, um, on my desktop, uh, to make it seem like I was in Charlotte. And then I was able to, to log into my account that.

[00:41:25] Brett: shocked if there’s not already an extension for that.

[00:41:28] Christina: I mean, there probably is, but in this case, like some of those extensions, like they want to use your wifi, your IP stuff, and that was not what I wanted. So it was actually easier for me to just do it in depth tools and, and then that, and so I switched my location in that regard, um, in the browser session, uh, made it look like I was in, um, Charlotte, then I was able to watch things.

[00:41:47] Then I was able to go into an app on another thing in, in log, in like locally and see my local channels. So, um, if anybody runs into that same problem, that’s what you have to do. Uh, and then apparently like every three or four months, you have to [00:42:00] like log in from your home viewing area of whoever that might be.

[00:42:03] So I, I pointed this out just for anyone who might want to share with like less tech savvy family members. You might want to rethink that. Um, or like, You know, um, be in a position where you could like remote screen control their, uh, their laptop so that, that you could, you know, get them logged in or worst case you have access to like their Google login so that.

[00:42:28] you could log in remotely for them.

[00:42:30] And, uh, you know, then they could watch.

[00:42:33] Brett: Speaking of hacks and webpages. I was getting all this spam from my S okay. So I have always preferred to have a contact form to actually like putting my email address onto my web

[00:42:48] Christina: Right, right.

[00:42:50] Brett: and, uh, for years I just had a basic contact form with very limited filtering and I never had that much trouble with [00:43:00] spam, but for the last few weeks I’ve been getting just like three or four a day, but just total like Russian bot spam messages.

[00:43:10] Uh, so I. I sat down one night and I made my own capture and it just, it puts, uh, uh, basic. Uh, like a number two numbers between zero and five and asks you to add them together. And it puts the question into a canvas. So the text isn’t actually on the page, it generates a random, uh, an array of 10. Possible numbers and then randomly selects the indexes of two of those numbers.

[00:43:51] And when it submits the form, it sends a hash, a key that tells it which two indexes to check the answer against. [00:44:00] And then it does all of the verification on the server side. So you can’t repeatedly submit the form and every time you fail it, it changes the question that I believe it’s like, it’s pretty basic.

[00:44:15] It’s, it’s the simplest kind of capture, but it has eliminated spam mail and I’m hoping it hasn’t eliminated too much legitimate mail in the process. I’m proud of it though. It actually,

[00:44:28] Christina: no, I I’m proud of you for doing that too. And it seems like a lot of work, but.

[00:44:33] Brett: well, I mean, it was fun here. I’ve put the link to the contact page in the show notes, you can see it’s not a perfect font match, but. At the bottom of the form, it says what’s four plus four. And then you just answer the question

[00:44:53] Christina: That’s cool.

[00:44:54] Brett: and if you don’t put in an integer at all, it won’t let you submit the form to begin with.

[00:44:59] But if [00:45:00] you

[00:45:00] Christina: Oh, nice. That’s nice. Okay. I see this. Yeah, I know the font is really close.

[00:45:05] Brett: yeah, yeah. Um, I’m, I’m pretty proud of myself.

[00:45:09] Christina: I’m proud of you too. Like that seems like I only reason I say there’s a lot of work. Like I’m just like, this is like a really like cool solution that I do, like wonder I’m like, huh? Like it seems to be working so far. Like it

[00:45:21] Brett: I have not gotten any spam, but I also have gotten relatively few actual contact messages. So, but I’ve tested it. Like it, it totally works. And if you, if you answer the question and you can totally send an email, so, um, I don’t know. I, I don’t like I never get more than one person a day contacting me my site, even when I’m not writing regularly, I get about 20,000 visits a week.

[00:45:50] But the actual, like the bounce rate is pretty high. And the number of people who actually contact me through the website remains more like seven a week.[00:46:00]

[00:46:02] I, I went and checked by RSS that’s for the first time in like a year, this week. And, uh, I’ve been writing significantly less since I took the job at Oracle, but my subscriber stats have gone from like 15,000 subscribers to 30,000. And it, it always makes me wonder what’s wrong with the reporting. Why would I have 30,000 our assess subscriptions when I’m writing, like at best once a week.

[00:46:35] Christina: Yeah. I don’t know. Um, that does make me think of, it’s double that there is something wrong with the reporting. Um, like there’s a part of me that I want to be like, oh no, I think that that would be like, no, you’re, you’re doing great. But for it to double, especially since RSS is not.

[00:46:52] Brett: Common

[00:46:53] Christina: On the rise. Right?

[00:46:55] Right. Like, like, like, like, you know? Yeah. Like, like I still pay for feed but, and stuff, [00:47:00] but I don’t

[00:47:00] Brett: the Simpsons.

[00:47:01] Christina: Yes. Maybe it is making it come back. Maybe It’s becoming sex again, except I except like seriously doubt it. So I wonder if there’s like a, either, are there bots out there that are just subscribing to

[00:47:13] Brett: so I use our use, um, what’s the name of the service I use? Uh, feed, press feed, press. Um, and they do a pretty good job of filtering bots and stuff, but they also they’re like, it’ll be, if you look at the reporting, like you’ll have like a, uh, like 5,000 subscribers spike for one day and then it’ll go away.

[00:47:37] And they never explained like where that came from or why. So I don’t know. I do like feed press though. I pay, I pay, I pay money for feed press. They do, uh, analytics and podcasts hosting. It’s it’s it’s a good service. I’ll add it to the show notes. If

[00:47:54] Christina: yeah. That’s

[00:47:55] Brett: feed, press service,

[00:47:56] Christina: yeah. Add that to the shadows. That’s cool. Um, [00:48:00] I, um, I remember hearing about them cause what was always going to, what was, what was the name of the Google one? Was it feed Wrangler? What was it?

[00:48:06] Brett: uh, Google reader.

[00:48:08] Christina: No, no, no, no. Google’s, um, uh, feed, uh, hosting service.

[00:48:13] Brett: Oh, fi fo um, I forgotten. It’s not feed Wrangler. That was a competitor.

[00:48:21] Christina: was a competitor.

[00:48:22] Brett: hidden. Didn’t have fire in the name somewhere,

[00:48:24] Christina: I think it did. Um, it was like, like firehose for fire,

[00:48:28] Brett: Wow. I’ve totally forgotten. I know exactly what you’re talking about, but since reader died. Yeah, I do like feed Wrangler, feed Wrangler, and what’s the one, is it? Which one has the hamburger icon

[00:48:45] Christina: um, uh, feed Ben.

[00:48:46] Brett: feed feedback. That’s the one I actually use and I have the same password for both feed Wrangler and feed bin, but feed bin.

[00:48:55] It’s the one I paid for and I use it with reader and

[00:48:59] Christina: [00:49:00] Yeah, same. Yeah. and net news

[00:49:03] Brett: I just even, I don’t use RSS that much anymore.

[00:49:06] Christina: Same. I was going to say, like, I pay for feedback and I have for seven, eight years and I, for a long time, I paid for feed Wrangler as well. Um, but at a certain point I was like, um, I think like five years into it, I was like, I can only pay for one service I don’t

[00:49:20] Brett: Yeah, exactly. You don’t, you don’t need to RSS services.

[00:49:24] Christina: right. You really don’t, especially if you’re only if you’re not even using one really. Um, but so at this point, part of me is like, I liked the idea of being able to pay to support it. And then I, I just, yeah. Do you remember, uh, what was it? Fever.

[00:49:36] Brett: Yeah. I used to, I used to run my own fever.

[00:49:39] Christina: So did I, I ran my own fever.

[00:49:41] and since me and Sean and man-made good

[00:49:43] Brett: Right. And mint

[00:49:44] Christina: mint was so good.

[00:49:46] Brett: was great.

[00:49:47] Christina: Mint was fantastic. He had his own URL shortener too, which was really good. Um, and his own, um, uh, remember kicks, um, the, the bookmarklet

[00:49:57] Brett: No. Oh, quicks. Quicks. [00:50:00]

[00:50:00] Christina: Quicks. Yeah.

[00:50:01] Brett: Yeah. What’s that? Sean and men too.

[00:50:03] Christina: No, it wasn’t, but, um, it was sort of based on shortwave, I think was what

[00:50:08] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[00:50:09] Christina: So it was a similar syntax, but yeah, quicks, quicks, I loved, I’m

[00:50:14] Brett: who doesn’t remember a quicks, it was like, basically a bookmarklet like JavaScript bookmarklet you could write Quicksilver type of, uh, commands, and then you have like, just basically a text file and perform all these shortcuts on web pages using a bookmarklet. It was, it was sweet. I loved

[00:50:36] Christina: it.

[00:50:36] was like, I, I still miss it to this day because there are times when, like, I want to pull up an archive version of something and I’m like, dammit, I wish quicks was still running or, or, or, or, or that used to open source the backend because I would, I would like have it running locally, even, you know what I mean?

[00:50:51] Um, because there are times when I’m like, you know, and I, and I can do that obviously with Alfred and some other stuff, but like, it was honestly very convenient to have [00:51:00] it just in the browser and, and just be able to be like, okay, I wanna go to the archive version of this, or I want to, you know, go to the cash version.

[00:51:09] You know What, I mean? Like there were just certain things that I had. Um, I had, like, I had like, like, like Twitter kind of shortcut things and be like, okay, I can automatically send this to tweet Baader or whatever. Like it was, that was, that was slick.

[00:51:20] Brett: What, uh, whatever happened to Sean Inman?

[00:51:23] Christina: He made games for a while. And I don’t know,

[00:51:30] Brett: Yeah. I just Googled and either on spelling the name wrong.

[00:51:34] Christina: it was S H a U N I N M a

[00:51:37] Brett: Yeah. That’s what I thought. And like did compendium. Okay. He’s still out there. And his copyright on his, on his blog reads 2001 to 2021. So either it’s, um, using a server to just put the current year in, or it’s actually updating [00:52:00] retro game crunch, the last rocket.

[00:52:04] Christina: So I just checked on his Twitter. So he’s apparently, um, currently at panic and play date. Cool.

[00:52:11] Brett: Oh, played which one was play date.

[00:52:13] Christina: Playdate is, is the little

[00:52:14] Brett: Yeah. That’s what I thought. Yeah. What are, is that still a thing?

[00:52:19] Christina: It’s been delayed. It hasn’t come out yet.

[00:52:21] Brett: Okay. Yeah, actually that was like the first quote unquote console that I was actually interested in buying for a long time.

[00:52:28] Christina: Yeah. I, um, I have one pre-ordered, um, I’m in like the first wave of people getting them, but, um, they, uh, they had some sort of battery issue or something and so it’ll be out early next year. I got to play one God, uh, two years ago at, uh, at, um, the last, um, XO, XO, uh, that, that, um, they had before the pandemic or whatever.

[00:52:51] And I got to play a prototype and it was really, really fun.

[00:52:55] Brett: Nice. His blog does not list ment or fever [00:53:00] under his web applications.

[00:53:02] Christina: Yeah. He retired them both. Yeah. He retired them both because at one point, like I Was like looking for kind of like a Minch replacement and, um, 'cause he doesn’t sell it.

[00:53:13] anymore. I was like looking. I was like, okay, well, could I maybe even get this running and still use this? Because it did some of the stuff I needed it to do.

[00:53:20] Turn out the version of my SQL. It was using was just a little bit too old for certain things. And I was able to comment out like the serial thing or whatever and the file and it still works just fine, which, which was nice. But, um, Yeah.

[00:53:35] that those services stopped, stopped working, unfortunately, because, um, mint was just like with solid.

[00:53:41] Like, I use that for my analytics for years and years, I think, uh, I mean, it’s been a few years now, but I think it was only relatively recently that, um, uh, teachy moved Mac stories to something else.

[00:53:51] Brett: Yeah. I mean, Google analytics is, there’s a reason. It’s the standard.

[00:53:58] Christina: Yeah, it is.

[00:53:59] Brett: just, there’s [00:54:00] so much there that I don’t need that. It’s definitely not worth the trade-off of my users, uh, privacy to be running Google analytics and most

[00:54:09] Christina: Not only that, not only that, but if you use, um, you know, like, uh, you block origin or anything like that, like in most cases it blocks. Uh so-so so you, as like a webmaster, aren’t even getting the analytics and like, I don’t want to know any information about people, but I would like to know if I had a visitor or if it had a link click.

[00:54:25] So what I’ve been, what I’ve been using on some side project things is plausible analytics.

[00:54:31] Brett: W we had a, we had an episode where we talked about like all of our alternatives. Yeah. Plausible sounded good. Um, uh, fathom is the one I’m still using and they’ve added a lot of features in the last year that have made it

[00:54:47] Christina: cool. yeah. there were some features of fathom and I was looking at it that I couldn’t do, like, like I liked the, there was like a, um, a feature in, in mint. Um, like one of the, the, um, what do they call [00:55:00] them? The, what were the Peppers.

[00:55:02] Brett: Oh, Yeah.

[00:55:02] Christina: where we’re like, you could see how many people click on a certain link, like outbound clicks and that fatten didn’t have that, um, plausible added that and added a way of like, being able to track that.

[00:55:14] And so I appreciated that about them, but, but that it might have at, at this

[00:55:18] Brett: I just can’t remember the last time I cared. Like I understand what situation I would care about it in, but on my sites,

[00:55:25] Christina: for on your

[00:55:26] Brett: just don’t have a need to track outbound traffic at all.

[00:55:29] Christina: Right. And, and in my case it was, I was, it was for a, for a site for someone I was doing at work. And I did actually need that information, um,

[00:55:36] Brett: cases where.

[00:55:37] Christina: for my own reporting, just so I could be like, okay, this is how many people are clicking on these things. Mostly they’d be like, okay, these are the stories that resonate, or these are in or whatnot, you know, like, because for certain links you can put tracking things on and you can track the inbound stuff on that link itself.

[00:55:50] But if you’re using, you know, certain stuff, but, um, I understand for a lot of people like that, wouldn’t be, uh, necessary. Uh, I had like a very specific use case,

[00:55:58] Brett: I

[00:55:59] Christina: why I needed

[00:55:59] Brett: [00:56:00] I need, uh, to set up one of the myriad sparkle app cast trackers, um, like every Mac app, you know, this I’m explaining for the listeners, every Mac app, uh, in the world. Okay. Not everyone, but most Mac apps use a library called sparkle. And when you see that update is available, uh, this is for non Mac apps or apps.

[00:56:22] But when you see that update available, you click update, it downloads it and you click install, update that’s it’s called sparkle and it runs off of an RSS feed, uh, called an app cast. And. It like, it doesn’t automatically send any of your information to the developer, but the fact that it is hitting a web URL and it has the option to submit anonymous usage information, I could be getting all kinds of analytics on my apps that I’m currently not like, I don’t even know how many [00:57:00] NVL users there are.

[00:57:01] As I get ready to release NBA ultra, it would be really useful to know like I can, I can estimate and it’s, it’s a Sprite, the huge number. Um, but I don’t have any actual data to work with. And I really should have set that up years ago,

[00:57:19] Christina: Um, so fun fact, the sparkle project, like the library, the 2.0, uh, dot O was just released 20 hours. ago.

[00:57:27] Brett: 20 hours. I’ve been using two dots. No, I’ve using 1.6. Oh shit. Okay. So I might need to do some update.

[00:57:36] Christina: Yeah. I’m not sure if the sparkle to add support for application sandboxing, customer custom user interfaces, updating external bundles and more modern architecture, which, which includes faster and more reliable installs pre-releases can be available this thing, but yeah, it’s already two tube has just released,

[00:57:52] Brett: sandbox, the sandbox thing was a big deal used to up until now. You’ve had to use a fork of the sparkle [00:58:00] project. If you wanted to add automatic updates to a sandbox, that app like it’s been possible, but it hasn’t been easy.

[00:58:08] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, totally. Which a lot of people have used other things and, um, no, that’s cool. Cause yeah, cause most, most Mac apps use sparkle or, or a fork of it. Um, or, you know, uh,

[00:58:22] Brett: It’s what makes it possible for an app like Mack updater to keep track of all of

[00:58:27] Christina: I was going to say, I would say

[00:58:28] Brett: check the sparkle feed.

[00:58:30] Christina: exactly Mack updater. I also can check. I think, you know, it has stuff that it like integrates with Homebrew as well, but right. It needs some sort of feed.

[00:58:37] of some sort of thing to be able to search it.

[00:58:39] Brett: I don’t know how it checks like, uh, like DaVinci, uh, resolve, which doesn’t do internal updates at all. Uh, they must’ve just figured out

[00:58:50] Christina: they, they might’ve manually, they might’ve found a way to manually ping that and compare it Like, I have a feeling like I have a feeling like, uh, like I feel like what was, what was Mac [00:59:00] update? Uh, I use backup dater, uh, but, but, but you know, the old Mac update, like they had their own database. Yeah.

[00:59:07] Like their own database of which I, I don’t even think it’s updated anymore, ironically. Um, but they had like their own database, you know, of apps, you know, they’re listed, uh, some of that I’m sure is through RSS and sparkle. And some of it was, you know, through developers, submitting separate, whatever the case may be.

[00:59:22] Brett: I, I still get so like most of my apps historically have been listed on Mac update and whenever I put out a sparkle update, I get it. I get an email from Mac update that says your app has your app listing has been updated. So they are tracking sparkle feeds.

[00:59:39] Christina: Yeah,

[00:59:39] no, I figured, but I’m just saying, I think that they have another thing too. Like I think if you weren’t using sparkle, you like, I, I feel like they have some other mechanism there. Um, what was the, what was the other McAfee update competitor? They sold it to macros or somebody, what was it called?

[00:59:52] Versions.

[00:59:53] Brett: I don’t remember. Uh, but like there were a bunch of like real spam ones, like soft pedia.[01:00:00]

[01:00:00] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, but this was one, it kind of became a spam. I think they sold it to CNET, but it was, it was version tracker. That’s what it

[01:00:05] Brett: Oh, yeah. I remember version tracker.

[01:00:07] Christina: Yeah. Version tracker was cool, man. We’re just

[01:00:10] Brett: Mac Mac update used to be cool. I used to love Mac update.

[01:00:14] Christina: too. I used to love it. I used to love it and um, yeah.

[01:00:19] Brett: Yeah.

[01:00:20] Christina: It, I don’t know what’s happened with it, but

[01:00:22] Brett: were heady times the Mac

[01:00:24] Christina: they were heading

[01:00:24] Brett: tracker days.

[01:00:26] Christina: honestly, well, I just, I don’t know. Ryan’s me just like the, the like glory days of, of Macko S you know, like back when, like everybody was building like native and cool desktop apps and doing like cool shit.

[01:00:40] Brett: Yeah.

[01:00:41] Good times.

[01:00:42] Christina: Good times.

[01:00:43] Brett: All right. Well, Hey everybody happy new year.

[01:00:45] Christina: happy new year.

[01:00:46] Yes. Yes. This has been a little weird over tired, but I’m, I’m glad to catch up with you and, uh, happy new year, everybody. Um, take care of yourselves. Hope that here’s to 20, 22 being Nothing like 20, 21.

[01:00:59] Brett: [01:01:00] Yes. Nothing like 2020, or like basically let’s go for here’s to 20, 22 being like 2015.

[01:01:10] Christina: Yes, yes.

[01:01:12] Brett: Let’s let’s jump back. Let’s jump back before 2016. All right.

[01:01:18] Christina: I’m with you.

[01:01:18] Brett: We’re going to, we’re going to call this episode under tired. I think we’re both too well rested to make an overtired episode today.

[01:01:26] Christina: I think so. But I mean, I think we, we had some good conversations. We had some good reminiscing about Mac stuff. I always love that.

[01:01:31] Brett: Yeah. W it was still, it was still classic over tired from a different perspective.

[01:01:37] Christina: There we go.

[01:01:37] Brett: All right, Christina, get some sleep.

[01:01:40] Christina: Get some sleep, Brett.