258: Nerd Talk, But What’s New?

Brett had a week off of work and has been buried in coding projects, so that’s where the conversation naturally goes. Lots of nerd talk. Plus some hot reviews of 20-year-old TV that you won’t want to miss.

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Overtired 258

[00:00:00] Brett: Hey there, you’re listening to Overtired and I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren. How are you, Christina?

[00:00:11] Christina: I’m good. I’m good. I’m I’m uh, I didn’t get a ton of sleep, but that’s okay. Um, but I’m, I’m not Overtired, we’re recording this at like an actual normal time for me versus the super early time that we’ve been doing it, which I appreciate, I won’t be able to talk about why that is. Um, uh soon-ish but, um, yeah, I’m, I’m, uh, I’m, I’m doing pretty well.

[00:00:34] How are you doing.

[00:00:35] A brief descent into the Mental Health Corner

[00:00:35] Brett: So I, I was super stable for almost two weeks. Like just feeling great, like super normal. And it’s those times when you’re like, oh, this is what everyone feels like all the time. Uh, my relationship was like outstanding, super in love. Just able to like be present. And then what is it? It’s [00:01:00] Friday. It’s Wednesday night.

[00:01:03] Uh, I got a little manic, not super manic, but mannequin enough to not sleep. And, uh, then Thursday I felt calm, but you know, I hadn’t slept for 24 hours. So I was super tired last night. I slept great. Like it seems to have passed, but now I’m in that place where you stay up for a whole night, you pull it all nighter and then you sleep the next night.

[00:01:30] And then that day, that is the definition of Overtired. That feeling when you can barely barely function.

[00:01:40] Christina: Yep. You are correct. So, okay. Um, so, so you’re definitely kind of Overtired now, so I guess, um, and that’s kind of a good update of like, um, uh, Brett’s mental health corner, but you’ve also, you’ve had the week off

[00:01:53] Brett: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:55] Christina: talk about.

[00:01:56] Brett: Well first, that means that [00:02:00] a brief manic episode, I get to spend pouring time into my crazy projects instead of working all night on work stuff. So that’s cool. It was nice to have a week off. It’s it’s weird. I kept checking in all week, um, to kind of cause like Aaron, my coworker is out for the month and Victor just started.

[00:02:25] So me taking a week off meant I left Victor with two weeks of experience to fend. He’s the only person left on the team. It’s a team of three and two of us are gone. So I, I minimally, but I checked in to try to make sure things were okay. Um, it was still relaxing though. Oh, before we go too far, let me

[00:02:51] Christina: I was going to say, I was going to say, I hear dog.

[00:02:53] Brett: So we have house cleaners. Uh, we managed to get the house clean enough for my [00:03:00] girlfriend to feel comfortable bringing in house cleaners. Uh, so we have, uh, a couple upstairs using a bunch of natural cleaning products to do a deep clean on our house for two hours, which is excessive in my opinion. But I also don’t care about how clean the house is.

[00:03:19] So. As a result of that though, I have to have our small little cattle dog rat terrier mix in my office. So she’s not up there bothering the house cleaners and she is not loving it. So you will hear some huffing, roofing and occasional barks. I have my cough button handy. I’ll try to have, I’ve tried to avoid having to do major edits on this.

[00:03:48] And there may just be some barking. And I have both cats in my office cause that’s where they want it to be. So bod is crawling around on piles of cables. My mic could [00:04:00] get disconnected at any time. The dog is pacing and grout in that girling, huffing, and yet he’s sleeping, but that’s, he’s fine. But anyway, this is probably going to go wrong.

[00:04:12] There will be some complicated.

[00:04:14] Christina: Yeah, there, there are always complications and that’s completely okay. Like, I think that’s fine. I think like, yeah. You know, that happens. So,

[00:04:22] Brett: I’m definitely rambly.

[00:04:25] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, you’re definitely rambly. You, you seem, um, I don’t know. You don’t see manic, but like, if It’s like a kind of like the tiredness kind of like yeah.

[00:04:35] You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Overtired. Cause that’s how I get when I’m Overtired.

[00:04:40] I talk a lot and I’m even more than usual and I’m like, yeah. So, um, okay. I’m opening up our document to kind of look at our stuff. Um, so,

[00:04:51] Brett: you’ll note in that document under sponsors, I put your name next to one. So you can, uh, you can help out with the reads this week.

[00:04:59] Christina: [00:05:00] Wonderful. Thank you. I will, I will earn my keep. Um, okay. So, oh, this is actually good. Cause, cause I’m I’m okay. So, okay.

[00:05:07] Fuzzy feelings about command line utilities

[00:05:07] Christina: Actually, this is interesting, cause you were hacking around on a bunch of stuff. What is FCF?

[00:05:12] Brett: Oh, man. Okay. So FCF is this tool that there’s been a bunch of, like menuing tools over the years, that you can feed like a list of items to, and it gives you, uh, a gooey, uh, like a terminal gooey menu. And FCF is by far the coolest one. You like, if you just do like an LS to list all your files and pipe it to FCF, it gives you a fuzzy matching type ahead, sir.

[00:05:47] With arrow key navigation, the Lulu, the option for multiple selections. And when you hit return, it just passes the select, the selection back to [00:06:00] the terminal. So you can pipe other commands through it and then pipe the results to other commands. It’s a perfect inline tool and I’ve been incorporating it into, uh, the majority of the, the command line tools that I have publicly released.

[00:06:17] I am now changing all of the crappy read line based menus into FCF menus. And it’s super cool.

[00:06:26] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I love it. Um, yeah. And I’m kind of looking at, you’ve got some other nerd stuff too that you’ve been doing, as you mentioned. Um, uh, so

[00:06:37] Brett: Doing, I got to tell you about doing that. So I keep doing as this tool I’ve probably talked about before, but it’s a command line tool that I built because I would work for a few hours on a bunch of different things and forget everything that I had done. Then I would leave and I would get back and I would forget what I was working on.

[00:06:59] I’m [00:07:00] ADHD. I need memory aids. So doing, lets me type things on my command line, like doing now, uh, getting ready to podcasts for over on, over. And it adds that to a task paper style file I can type just doing and it’ll show me like the last 10 things that I was doing, and it has time tracking and you can mark things as done, uh, canceled and it’s, it’s powerful.

[00:07:28] Like it has 50 some sub commands. It’s it’s cool. And, and I put in FCF integration into that, into that too. And I just, every time I get into like coding sprees, I end up finding something I wish doing, could do, and then spending an hour adding it to doing, and it’s just grown over the last five years.

[00:07:52] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So has it been. It’s been good. I mean, other than your kind of manic stuff and doing, like, having to [00:08:00] feel like you still had to check in at work, has it been nice to be able to just focus on work stuff or not work stuff on like fun hacking stuff.

[00:08:06] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Like I can do this shit for like days on. And, uh, once I get into coding, I find it very relaxing and very rewarding and it really feeds like the dopamine receptor figuring out something new and like making it work is like ADHD reward, center lights up every time. Yeah. I love it.

[00:08:30] It’s great.

[00:08:31] Titilating talk of static site generators

[00:08:31] Christina: See here that you’ve got, I’m just like, kind of looking through your thing. Um, this is actually, this is interesting to me. You have Jekyll on the future of static blog. This is interesting to me because I’ve been actually, I haven’t launched it yet, but I’ve been actually working on a static site, um, uh, Hugo based, um, the last few days, but I’m, I’m curious, but I’ve also been looking at like various headless CMS options, whether like, you know, headless ghost or WordPress or something else.

[00:08:58] So I’m curious, um, [00:09:00] your, uh, your thoughts on this.

[00:09:02] Brett: Well, okay. So I’m a huge fan of static sites. Um, I don’t know that I will ever intentionally create a CMS based site for myself again ever. Um, I will create WordPress sites for other people because it’s easy for non-tech people to get into and control and, and maintain on their own, but from my own stuff, whether I’m building a documentation site or a blog, or just so.

[00:09:32] I always love static site generators and Jekyll is the one I’ve been using for a decade. And I’m most comfortable with it. It’s built in Ruby and, um, super, uh, competent with creating like plugins and hacking it to do what I want it to do. But it’s technically a dead project.

[00:09:52] Christina: Yes. Yeah. They’ve even like confirmed that. Like they are not, you know, like even get hub pages. I think isn’t even on [00:10:00] like the latest Jekyll version,

[00:10:01] Brett: they’re like a full, like major release behind.

[00:10:06] Christina: Exactly. Like, I think you can, you can use to get hub action to manually do it if you want. But, but Yeah. And I there’s, some guy who’s created a fork of Jekyll.

[00:10:15] Brett: really?

[00:10:16] Christina: Uh, Yeah, Cause he he’s mad that the Jekyll project won’t directly like link to his thing. It’s in my GitHub stars, but I’ve had a bunch of stars in since let me find this, uh, keep, keep talking though about, about what you’d like.

[00:10:31] Brett: well, so like we, we ended up using Jekyll for the, uh, publishing system I built for Oracle. Uh, they needed something fast, something that integrated with GitHub and, uh, and Jekyll was something both myself and the kind of get pro on the team were familiar with. So we went with Jekyll and I think Jekyll’s going to have a long life, despite lack of development.

[00:10:59] Christina: Oh, [00:11:00] totally. Well, I mean, and the reason that doesn’t have development.

[00:11:01] is like they consider it done. Like they don’t really see anything more to do with that. It’s called Bridgetown. Um, it is, is, is this, uh, is this guy’s project? And I don’t know how well it’s going to, uh, take off or, or not. Um, but, uh,

[00:11:22] Brett: A modern Ruby website framework. I will be digging into this. Um, yeah, but like, so all of these other static site generators have come up, some have already gone, but, um, Hugo is, is really big. Hugo’s goes in node, right?

[00:11:41] Christina: Uh, no it’s in go

[00:11:43] Brett: Oh really? I have no idea how to use go.

[00:11:46] Christina: Well, that w that doesn’t matter as much. I mean, a lot of it is,

[00:11:48] Brett: Well, I want to be able to hack on whatever I use though.

[00:11:51] Christina: Okay. Yeah. Well, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll, it’s in go. Um, and, and since hence the, the go name and Hugo.

[00:11:57] Brett: Ah, that makes perfect sense. [00:12:00] What ghost was ghost showed up a long time ago? W where is ghost at these days?

[00:12:06] Christina: It’s good. So, so ghost is node. Ghost is node. And ironically, so I have a funny ghost story. So I knew John Nolan, one of the co-founders co-creators a little bit from the WordPress kind of community stuff. And he had this idea he’d worked on the WordPress project. And then he was like frustrated with aspects of it.

[00:12:28] And he created kind of a mock-up page. And I even wrote, I was like about, I was like, this is a WordPress I would love to use. And he was like, I I want to kind of like what of WordPress was more like medium and, and, and was more modern and it didn’t have a lot of the, you know, legacy stuff that is kind of an encompass.

[00:12:45] And so they created a Kickstarter project for a ghost. And this was, I don’t know, want to say 2014. Um, and I, um, got on the phone with him and was, was going to 2013 actually [00:13:00] in September, 2013. So, wow. We’re, we’re eight, um, we’re seven years, eight years. We’re eight years now that, that this happened and, um, it was a, and they call it just a blogging platform because at that point, you know, WordPress had gone on to be bigger and do a lot of other things.

[00:13:15] And he was like, no, I just want something that’ll be, you know, modern, but, but, um, also, you know, just beautiful to look at and just for blogging. And so I talked to him on the phone for awhile and I was working on the article, but it took me a little bit of time to get it up. And so he wound up, I guess he was worried that it wasn’t going to go up or not.

[00:13:34] And so he like half threatened, half whatnot. He was like, is the article going to go up? It’s going to go up. I’m like, it’s coming, it’s coming. He wound up shipping. Like 30 pounds of marshmallows. And it was, that was funny. And that was, that was kind of enough to, to kinda like kick my ass in gear anyway, that my post was able, I think, I think that they were able to directly attribute from the national post, like $50,000 in funding or something.[00:14:00]

[00:14:00] Um, which, which still to this day makes me feel really good because the project is now, you know, they have the hosted service that they, that they sell. Um, but they also have the open source thing. What they’ve pivoted to a little bit, it’s still kind of blogging and websites. And when I’m up, they pivoted to, which is smart is that they added a newsletter feature a couple years ago.

[00:14:21] And at this point they really. It is kind of a self hosted sub stack if you were to self hosted or if you were to use ghost pro. So that is kind of the way that they’ve kind of pivoted a little bit now is that they see themselves as like, okay, you can have a newsletter platform, but also have a blog associated with it, which I think is actually, um, smart.

[00:14:44] Brett: I actually advised on ghosts when they were first launching back in the days of that Kickstarter. Um, they contacted me as a, uh, uh, a markdown person. They wanted, they, they asked for [00:15:00] w. I would want to see in a markdown blogging platform. And, uh, I don’t remember what I told them. I remember they incorporated at least one of my suggestions.

[00:15:12] Um, but it’s been so long that I don’t, I don’t, but it was an honor just to be nominated, you know?

[00:15:18] Christina: No. Totally, totally. And, um, no, I mean, I think that, um, that, and, and they still, they, they run as kind of like a, you know, like they’re, they’re pretty lean. I’m not sure how many full-time people they have, they’re fully remote. Um, it’s still all OSS, you know, you can self host it yourself or put it on a digital ocean droplet, which is usually the easiest way to do it.

[00:15:40] And, um, uh, you know, I’m, I’m proud of them. You know, I still see people who have a lot of stuff with it. I mean, I think the jam stack is basically kind of sucked a lot of the air out of the room, but for people who were wanting to do. This sort of stuff that they do, um, especially, you know, it comes to like, if you’re wanting to set up your own, [00:16:00] you know, paid newsletter platform and you didn’t want to use sub stack or Twitter’s review or something else, it’s definitely one of the only, it’s one of the easiest things out there that has any sort of, you know, open source component to it.

[00:16:13] So, which is really cool.

[00:16:16] Brett: totally. Um, this, this is this whole section should, yeah, we should just do a static blogging show. There’s so many cool platforms out there. I I’m looking through the plugins for this bridge, Bridgetown, Brit, what was it? Bridger 10, no Bridgetown

[00:16:35] Christina: like

[00:16:35] Brett: or champ. Um, there, there’s an insane amount of really like plugins I want to use.

[00:16:42] And if they’re not backwards compatible with Jekyll, I might consider switching because I think I could make my current plugins forward compatible. This is

[00:16:52] Christina: Yeah.

[00:16:53] Brett: I that, and I wonder if I could make it work with GitHub pages. Um, I wonder if anyone has [00:17:00] created a GitHub action. To publish that because that’s why we’re using GitHub actions with Oracle, because with the GitHub, oh, you already said this, but with the GitHub action, you can use whatever version of Jekyll you want.

[00:17:13] Um, you know, it’s running in a container and you can set up the environment with custom plugins, which is really the, like the big deal for me. Cause I want to be able to, they have, you know, it’s a, you’re working for a corporation. They’re going to have weird off the wall requests. Uh, and you’re going to have to be able to do customization if anything, like an open source project project is going to work.

[00:17:41] So that’s a requirement I’m so rambly, I’m sorry.

[00:17:45] Christina: No, that’s completely okay. That’s completely okay. Yeah, no Bridgetown seems really cool. I mean, this is how they kind of describe it. What PACA, where Ruby powers, static site generator for the modern JAMstack era, which I mean, I think is, is a good thing of doing, because Jekyll look and it’s [00:18:00] fair, right?

[00:18:00] Like they it’s reached kind of the place where it works. And, and I think that it has a long life in front of it. And I don’t know if it, if it’s necessarily one of those things that people need more out of it. Um, but this guy, I guess he built a bunch of sites, you know, using Jekyll and really liked it and wanted to make his own improvements.

[00:18:19] And so he was, um, he was doing that, um, you know, if you go to jamstack.com and you go to generators, like there’s so many generators, like you said, it’s crazy. And jamstack.com. I believe that’s a net. It is, it is owned by Netlify. Um, Netlify obviously has just, you know, like blown up by my, uh, my good friend, Sarah used to be there, um, um, VP of engineering, but, um, she’s at Google now, but, um, you know, like it’s been fascinating watching them over the last three years or so, just blow up because it’s a really good product.

[00:18:52] Um, but B you know, just like the, the static site thing has just taken over to the point that like, if I were [00:19:00] WordPress, I mean, WordPress, it’s going to be okay, don’t get me wrong. And, but, you know, and they, they power so much of their web. Like, they’re, they’re fine, but I, if I were them, like, they actually just acquired automatic anyway, just acquired, um, some, uh, Company that made like a front end, I guess they were like, it was a react based thing, basically doing like, like headless WordPress, but, you know, with, with react front ends and they, and they just said they had their own framework, I guess, or what frontier city or something like that anyway, automatic acquired it.

[00:19:30] So it’s now part of like the, the wordpress.com family. Although to my knowledge, they are not going to be working on that anymore. They’re going to be doing other things at automatic. But if I were people who worked at like, you know, automatic and, or were other people who were hardcore involved in like making my living as an agency off of WordPress, I would probably be looking very strongly into the static space and either figuring out like, is there a headless solution that I can come up with?

[00:19:58] Do I want to look at other [00:20:00] things because. While for end-users the entry, you know, the ease of use and whatnot of a CMS can be good for developers for both bandwidth costs. And for other things, you know, like it’s so much better to have a static site, if you can, and to be able to publish, especially like having like a, you know, a get, you know, uh, you know, workflow is not as fast as, as you were commenting earlier, you had to fix something on your blog and it’s, it’s not as fast depending on, on what your setup is, but it’s also, once you get things done, I think from most people’s sites, if you’re not publishing stuff, literally all the time, you know, where you’re having to do tons of dynamic content, like all the time.

[00:20:43] I don’t know if you need it,

[00:20:44] Brett: Even, even with a database based site, uh, once you get into a good caching and I mean, even a good word press site is still delivering static content.

[00:20:57] Christina: Oh, no, you’re right. You’re right.

[00:20:59] Brett: and, [00:21:00] and it still takes nothing’s instant. Like you still have to clear out caches and, and, and use cash bussers. And it’s just more so with a static site, like if I want to make a correction on my Jekyll blog and my Jekyll blog was built in like 2010.

[00:21:18] And I have kind of patched the code forward, but it’s still is it does it can’t take full advantage of like Jekyll’s, um, uh, incremental rendering and, uh, live reloading stuff. So developing on that site is a bit slower of a process. And then I use all of these plugins that, uh, when I build for deployment, it, it injects, uh, like CDN URLs with cache busters so that the new build won’t load old assets.

[00:21:52] And so everything takes a couple extra minutes. And, uh, if I want to make a spelling correction on a blog [00:22:00] post, all told if I, if I do a hold on, I have to yell. I yelled at a dog, but I was on mute. So you didn’t have to hear it. Um, if I want to make a spelling, correction and I’m going through, and I’m good at tests it before I upload it, which is always a good idea.

[00:22:17] Um, I’m looking at 10 minutes just to change one letter on a blog post. So that’s not the case with WordPress, like with WordPress, I dunno. It takes me like five minutes to load up the goddamn interface. It’s so slow.

[00:22:33] Christina: No, that’s the thing. I mean, actually it’s funny. Cause at one time mashville was the largest WordPress install, uh, for a long time we were and, and our mic.

[00:22:42] Brett: they tried to hire, do you remember that? They wanted to hire me to build a Ruby API on top of WordPress, but I gave them too high, a price and they stopped talking to me.

[00:22:52] Christina: Which is a shame cause you would’ve liked that team. Um, and, and Robin was a good guy. He’s at CNN now. I don’t I don’t even know he was on, he [00:23:00] Robin’s very well off, but, um, uh, he’s worked at a lot, a lot of places, but, uh, yeah, cause I remember. you talking to, because you talked to Robin, right.

[00:23:08] Brett: I,

[00:23:08] don’t remember.

[00:23:09] Christina: Robin Peterson, but anyway, um, but he a great guy.

[00:23:14] Uh, he was our CTO. Um, and uh, we got him from Conde Nast I think. And um, he, um, uh, really nice guy, but he, um, he he’s, uh, he’s now the chief technology officer and SVP at, uh, CNN, um,

[00:23:30] Brett: so anyway, Mashable has the biggest

[00:23:33] Christina: We had the biggest and we had the biggest WordPress install, uh, at like our, our, my SQL database was across three servers. Like it was massive. Like it was ridiculous. And because it was so big and because of the caching and the other issues, they did do a headless thing basically years, a decade close to before that really became like the very defacto concept.

[00:23:57] So the idea would be, we still use very old, [00:24:00] kind of locked down version of WordPress as the CMS for many years. And then they eventually built their own CMS, which is always a mistake, but whatever.

[00:24:07] Brett: It never goes well.

[00:24:08] Christina: It never goes believable. They’d hope to commercialize it and we weren’t going to. Um, but, but then it would, you know, use, uh, either Ruby or Python.

[00:24:16] I’m not, I don’t remember which one now, um, to, you know, um, uh, publish in on the front end. And, um, but we did have that issue where, you know, if you wanted, you could make an update to the post, but because of caching and other stuff, it could take some time to show back up on the site. So we’d have to, like, you’d have to manually, there were, there were characters you could enter into like force or refresh of the, of the page and whatnot.

[00:24:40] And then the F the homepage. It was interesting because it was dynamically, there, there was three columns and one of the columns was like chronological. One of the columns was, I guess, like specifically chosen, you know, to be what was featured. And then the middle column was dynamically determined based on, um, like whether they were calling like hot [00:25:00] or rising.

[00:25:00] And that was based on signals. Like how often is this being shared? How often this it’s being read. So like how many Twitter or Facebook shares, how many people are reading it at one time? Like, what’s the trajectory where people are thinking, oh, this is going to be a hot story. And then it’ll be promoted to the hot column, which, um, at the time when it launched and you know, again, this was close to a decade ago, was.

[00:25:23] You know, hot shit. Like that was, that was a cool thing. And that was one of those things where they couldn’t do that with just normal WordPress. Right.

[00:25:30] Like to be able to take in those signals. And, um, remember, uh, I had like a, kind of a, it was a good talk conversation, but I had, it was slightly contentious.

[00:25:40] He’s very nice guy, but I had like a, uh, kind of a, debate in person with Matt Mullenweg about that. He was like, oh no, they could have done this and this and this. And I was kind of talking to him about it. I was like, yeah, it would have required significantly more engineering efforts and overhead to try to replicate that experience versus just building something against their own API [00:26:00] APIs.

[00:26:00] And then just using this, you know, the term we know uses headless and he had to begrudgingly agree that that WordPress and in 2012 was not capable of doing that. But anyway, that’s me right.

[00:26:11] Brett: there’s a Jason API plugin for WordPress that I used it for a lot of, uh, hacking that actually makes WordPress usable. Um, I can’t even remember what I did with it. I wrote a lot of plugins for WordPress, but I’m so tired of PHP.

[00:26:30] Christina: Yeah. Although at this point, most of WordPress, a lot of the direction is, is JavaScript, which is freaking out a lot of that community, from what I understand, because you have like the older stalwarts who were still at PHP people and, and, and, um, you know, and aren’t ready to go into the JavaScript world, which is clearly where the future of it is kind of going to be.

[00:26:52] Um, but they released the rest API. I don’t even remember how long ago and people still don’t really use that except for some of the higher end, you [00:27:00] know, like agency places and whatnot. But

[00:27:02] So you want to learn a language?

[00:27:02] Brett: I think I used to, if people asked me they wanted to get into coding and they wanted to know what language to learn, I used to just tell everyone Python, because. Eh, just like, I’m not good at Python, but when I talk to people who, who got into coding and got good at it, most of them started with Python. So I have just assumed with the number of libraries available in everything that, that Python was a good place to start, but honestly, JavaScript, like if you learn JavaScript and cause you can go server side or front end with it now, and you can do JavaScript for automation and it’s a very versatile and very powerful and potentially messy language.

[00:27:49] But it seems like, I don’t know. I think that’s where I’m going to start telling people, if you want to learn something, start with Java script. Plus it’s super easy to, to learn in a [00:28:00] browser.

[00:28:01] Christina: Yeah, we, you can see your results very easily. I mean, and, and it’s, it’s not that it it’s, it, there’s still a lot to it and, and there’s still, you know, like picking like, again, if you’re wanting to do server side or, or, or, you know, like browser side, like there’s, you know, various things that you have to think about, but yeah.

[00:28:17] Um, Python was my go-to for a long time as well. And depending on what people are doing, I still think it’s a good language to learn because it makes a lot of sense and it doesn’t have as many like

[00:28:29] Brett: Anything that that’s that anal about? Indentation is always gonna throw me. I, I don’t, I’m I’m opinionated about indentation and I, I don’t always agree with other people’s indentation.

[00:28:42] Christina: No. I agree. I’m just more thinking like JavaScript can be this sort of thing, like depending on what you’re doing with it, like, if you, you know, are you going to be into node? Are you going to be, you know, like, like what, what, what’s your focus area? Like, what’s, what’s kind of your, your, your toolkit that becomes a very, becomes kind of its own thing.

[00:28:59] [00:29:00] But I do agree with you, I think that for a lot of people, like,

[00:29:02] Brett: you’ve got to learn vanilla first

[00:29:05] Christina: I agree with that, but the problem is, is a lot of people, especially when they’re looking for tutorials and stuff, they

[00:29:11] Brett: jump right into react, and don’t actually learn how JavaScript works.

[00:29:15] Christina: precisely. And, and so, um, I feel like at least in terms of some of the. Educational content that’s out there.

[00:29:23] I feel like that’s the one regard where I feel like maybe at least right now, Python still has a slight step up. But I do agree with you that if I were like, and ironically, it’s funny you say this, cause I’m going to be doing a live thing on Tuesday next week, talking about how people should like learn to code and where they should start.

[00:29:44] And more than likely what I’m going to be saying is exactly what we’re saying, which is like JavaScript. Like if I were to advise like a teenager right now, like somebody who’s interested in stuff, I would be like, get into JavaScript because it’s going to be the, [00:30:00] as you said, the easiest to see in a browser kind of what it does, you know, and, and like that’s an important

[00:30:06] Brett: and there’s zero chance it’s going away. Like it runs so much of the web and so much of the computing world in general. It’s it’s there, it has a guaranteed. Well, you learn JavaScript now 50 years from now, your skills will still be of some use. Well, if we still, I don’t know. How can you use JavaScript script on quantum computers?

[00:30:32] Christina: probably. I mean, somebody will probably, I mean, at this point we don’t know. I mean, at this point, like the, they will probably come up with some sort of JavaScript variant for, you know, as an interaction thing. I mean, like, I don’t know. Um, I mean, Python is not a bad thing to go with either. Like I would certainly, but I would suggest that over, you know, like, like Java, right?

[00:30:52] Like Java is still very in very high use in, in the enterprise and other things, but like, you know, that’s What they still teach in a [00:31:00] lot of computer science programs and

[00:31:02] Brett: was the static blog that was Python based? Whether had you sit around at Pelican? Yeah. Are there, I, you just don’t see a lot of Python in that, in that arena.

[00:31:15] Christina: No, no. I mean, it’s, I mean, you see a lot of JavaScript, um, Hugo is goal-based, but it also has a lot of JavaScript in it.

[00:31:22] Brett: Yeah, you can write plugins for Hugo and JavaScript. Kenya.

[00:31:24] Christina: exactly, exactly. So, which is, which is kind of its thing, you know, I’m obviously Jekyll is Ruby. Um, Yeah.

[00:31:32] I mean, I feel like, well, cause I feel like the big thing with, with Python. I mean, there was Pelican, but I feel like the big thing there was Django, right?

[00:31:39] Brett: Yeah. Right. I forgot about GENCO. Um, yeah, we have to do an ad read.

[00:31:45] Christina: Yes. Let’s Do

[00:31:46] Brett: you want to do yours or should I do mine?

[00:31:49] Christina: I will do mine?

[00:31:51] Brett: Um,

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[00:32:22] Brett: That is, that is true. I, I paid off a huge credit card debt this year with an upstart loan and steadily paying down on fixed monthly payments now and great credit score again, like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it’s definitely thanks to upstart.

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[00:33:15] Brett: Awesome. I’m looking forward to doing my read too. I’m actually, I’m excited about both of our sponsors today.

[00:33:21] Christina: Yeah. I feel like they, they, they fit us well, so thank you, upstart. Um, all right, so maybe enough, like CMS

[00:33:28] Brett: Yeah. I feel like we’ve worn that out.

[00:33:30] Christina: I feel like we have, um, so I think we talked about I term a little bit last week. I did see this. We could talk about that if you want to. Um, but I also see, like, this has been on here for awhile.

[00:33:43] Brett can’t really justify a new Synology and should just save his money

[00:33:43] Christina: You want a new Synology but you don’t know if you can justify it.

[00:33:47] Brett: So like, I have a lot of fun with my Synology and I

[00:33:50] Christina: Yeah. I love my

[00:33:51] Brett: slowly, I had a couple terabytes to it here and there, but I’ve got plenty of space and I use it for a lot of, you know, NAS stuff, [00:34:00] but I also love running all of the various applications and web server stuff it can do.

[00:34:07] Christina: It’s your home.

[00:34:08] Brett: Yeah. But I ran into this limitation of mine where it can’t run Docker.

[00:34:16] Christina: Really?

[00:34:17] Brett: yeah, and to, to be able to run Docker, I would have to upgrade to, like, I think it’s the nine 20 plus. And I really, I, I want to, I don’t even know offhand what I would do if I had Docker on my Synology and the stupid thing is I have, uh, an older Mac mini that is running Docker and is connected to the network.

[00:34:40] And I really should just be happy with that until I actually have something I want to do with Docker that I can’t do on the mini, but it’s still one of those things where you’re like, there’s a slight justification for this new piece of hardware. Maybe I, maybe I should do it.

[00:34:56] Christina: Yeah. I mean, how long has it.

[00:34:59] been since you [00:35:00] got your Synology?

[00:35:01] Brett: Um, three years, I think.

[00:35:03] Christina: Okay. So I feel like. I feel like, you know, you’re you, you’ve got the job now. Things are more stable. I mean, I say treat yourself.

[00:35:15] Brett: Yeah. I’m of two minds one. Yes. It would be a fun decadent expense that I can’t fully justify, but I could, I could have, I could find a different way to spend that money. That would be just as decadent and maybe, you know, there are new Mac books come in.

[00:35:35] Christina: Yeah. But you just, but you said you’re happy with your Mac mini

[00:35:38] Brett: am. I’m happy with my Mac mini and I still have this 2019 MacBook pro that’s in great shape. I, I don’t, I don’t need a new computer either. I can’t justify any of these things. I should, I can justify saving money though. I have, I have a savings account. I can, I could cover a major [00:36:00] home expense or a LA a huge vacation.

[00:36:04] Like I, I have money. I padding for the first time in how long, when did I last work for AOL? That was like 2012. Maybe. Yeah. It’s been a long time since I had a savings account. So part of like, I like to spend money. I like to buy new toys, but I also like having padding, like that’s also with thrill.

[00:36:28] Christina: This is true. This is true. So, all right. I will say this, the, the nine 20 with, um, four gigs of Ram is $550 without drives.

[00:36:44] Brett: and I already have all the drives.

[00:36:46] Christina: right. The 1520 with eight gigs of Ram is, um,

[00:36:52] Brett: Oh. But I want the two SSDs to.

[00:36:54] Christina: okay. Um, is, is a. And it’s five A’s is, um, [00:37:00] six is 700, so it’s 150 more. Um, but you could just upgrade the Ram yourself. There’s also a seven 20 plus I’m looking at this. That’s actually smaller. Um, so I don’t know. I feel like, I guess you could think about

[00:37:18] Brett: I want the nine 20 plus with the two SSD cache drives and the eight gigabytes of Ram. That is the other, that is my Synology is pretty slow. This like 5, 5, 20, whatever, five nine. I don’t know which one I have a it’s a 19, but anyway, it is, it gets a little groggy sometimes. And I use it as my get, uh, for all of my private repos.

[00:37:45] I just keep them on my Synology and put doing a get push from my Mac mini to my Synology on the same network. Can there’s like a five second lag before anything connects [00:38:00] and that’s a little annoying and I feel like it’s, it has to do with the speed of this analogy.

[00:38:06] Christina: Yeah. That’s probably a part of it. Yeah.

[00:38:09] Brett: would fix it.

[00:38:10] Christina: Yeah. The, the caching would help a lot. Yeah. I have, um, I have like one of the, the 18 series, like the, but it’s old, it’s like old, old, old. And so

[00:38:19] Brett: It’s from 18. That’s what the numbers on them,

[00:38:21] Christina: No, no, no, no. Then at the top it’s like a DSS 18.

[00:38:24] Brett: Oh, no. Okay.

[00:38:26] Christina: Right. So, so it, but it’s an eight bay, but that that’s like their highest.

[00:38:31] And like, I guess like consumer, you know, thing or whatever, or one of their highest end ones and it’s great. Or it was great. But at this point we literally just use it as like network storage. Then we have servers that are older, that we use for other stuff, because you know, like it’s, it’s, it’s as old as it is, but we still love it.

[00:38:49] But So I’ve been, I’ve been kind of going through a similar thing that you have where I’ve been like, trying to like figure out like, okay, what, um, like what Synology [00:39:00] do I want to get and how much am I going to spend on it?

[00:39:03] Brett: here’s one thing that I’ve come to realize is with a five bay NAZ, you can put in like 10, 10 terabyte drives. But if one of those drives fails, you have to buy a whole nother 10 terabyte drive in they’re not cheap. And, uh, and, and plus it takes forever to rebuild when it’s one fifth of your storage, uh, it takes forever to rebuild the raid.

[00:39:29] So I see buying, uh, like a nine bay, uh, NAZ makes a lot of sense because you could have smaller, more affordable drives that are easier to replace and take less time to rebuild.

[00:39:48] Christina: Right. Well, that was kind of what we did. Like when I got mine and a disclosure Synology sent me my. Eight years ago or whenever it was, and it came with drives in it, and most of those drives have died, [00:40:00] but it was one of those things where they didn’t all die at once and we were able to replace them. But we’ve done that where we buy, like when we can get good deals on drives, we’ll find the drives and we’ll replace them.

[00:40:10] But yeah, you’re right. When you have eight bays, what’s nice about that is like you said, you know, you, you don’t have to like max everything out with, uh, you know, like, you know, like eight or 10 terabyte

[00:40:21] Brett: terabyte drives and you be good.

[00:40:23] Christina: Exactly. And so, so that’s one of the things that we do. So in that way, when one dies, which they do from time to time, you know, you can like find a replacement

[00:40:33] Brett: let’s be clear. They will die.

[00:40:36] Christina: yes,

[00:40:36] Brett: these are drives in an always on machine. And the, I would say you have a guaranteed life of a year. You can get three years out of a drive, but you should absolutely plan to replace your drives. Uh, within five years of EV every drives life. And when you PI these 10 terabyte drives by them, knowing [00:41:00] you’re going to be buying another one and another one, it like, it’s scary to get those huge capacity drives.

[00:41:08] Christina: Yeah, totally. Um, so, um, yeah. Um, but yeah, that, that’s the thing is that it does make it easier when you have more phase to like, you know, like, I guess, price out what you’re going to do. And then hopefully over time, what happens. I mean, this is what happened With us is that like drive prices went down, you know?

[00:41:26] So, uh, that hasn’t, that’s not going to be the case as much probably for the next year or so because of the ship shortage and everything that’s happening with that. But in general, you know, drive prices go down, meaning that, you know, if you, even, if you start out with like four terabyte things, like, hopefully by the time that was die, you could replace, you know, two of

[00:41:45] Brett: the same price. Yeah,

[00:41:47] Christina: exactly.

[00:41:47] Brett: that’s what I’ve been doing slowly, slowly replacing my four terabyte drives with six terabyte drives and they are the same price that I paid for the four terabyte drives.

[00:41:57] Christina: Yeah.

[00:41:57] Brett: I’m going to do a sponsor read. And then I [00:42:00] want to tell you about our upcoming gov.

[00:42:01] Christina: Yeah.

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[00:44:41] A peek at the exciting future of Overtired

[00:44:41] Brett: Yeah. Um, so we have, we have a guest coming next week that, that you and I have talked about having on for awhile. Um, they actually it’ll be our first nonbinary guest.

[00:44:55] Um, they, the a while back, you, you and I had a [00:45:00] little, uh, Tete, a Tete regarding self-diagnosis and, and, uh, and especially ASD related stuff. And, uh, Brian Guffey, he took issue with that and, uh, made some very salient points on Twitter. You guys have talked

[00:45:18] Christina: Yeah, they made some really good points and, um, and, and kind of agreed to disagree on some things, but I really appreciated their perspective. So, and I’m always, I’m always happy for someone who I like, and I, I will put this out to any of our other listeners. I’m happy for people to disagree with me and, I’m happy to like, hear that doesn’t mean I’m going to change my mind, but like, I’m like remarkably happy to have like a conversation.

[00:45:38] I know I come across as like very opinionated and very like stuck in things, but that’s actually not true. Like, I very much enjoy a back and forth and our discussion because I, my, my opinions can change and my understanding can change, you know,

[00:45:51] Brett: This definitely won’t be confrontational. Uh, they’re they’re really looking forward to it. And in, in the discord, [00:46:00] Brian said this to me and I begged him them to, I pegged them to make it an iTunes review because it was so good. Uh, they said, this is the iTunes version. I look forward to Overtired every week because listening to Brett and Christina makes my ADHD brain feel it’s at peace because the podcast sounds like my brain.

[00:46:22] It is absolutely the most comfortable. I feel each week.

[00:46:26] Christina: Oh, that’s so nice. That’s like the nicest thing.

[00:46:30] Brett: someone’s comfy place. That’s awesome.

[00:46:32] Christina: Uh, plus they are someone who we can like relate to in a lot of things. Uh, they and I are going to really, really nerd out over, over a acapella. So be prepared, Brett. I’m just, I’m just, I’m just warning you now. Um, but yeah, this I’m very excited about that.

[00:46:50] Brett: I also am begging my friend, uh, uh, Jeff Severns gun soul, who has been on Systematic a couple of times. And I’ve been working [00:47:00] really closely with him on some freelance stuff over the last year or two. And, uh, he is, he’s a lot like me. The last couple of guests we’ve had on have been more like you than

[00:47:12] Christina: I agree. I agree. So I want to get somebody more like you that’s that’s fair. I’m excited about this. I’m excited to have like two Brett’s gang up on Christina. This is going to be

[00:47:21] Brett: It will be a change of pace, but Jeff is, he’s so fun. Uh, like he, he said it sounded awesome, but he couldn’t take the one I wanted to schedule him on. So we’ll see, uh, how scheduling goes. But definitely

[00:47:37] Christina: we’ll we’ll we’ll make it work. We’ll make it

[00:47:39] Brett: I think it would be great. I think I could see him being a regular guest actually. Um, he’s also ADHD.

[00:47:47] I feel like we’re going to have a lot of good mental health episodes coming up.

[00:47:51] Christina: I agree. I agree. Um,

[00:47:54] Let’s talk about really old TV and how it makes us feel comfortable in an uncertain world

[00:47:54] Brett: Speaking of comfy places though, you know, you know, so Chuck for a long time, until I [00:48:00] finished it, uh, was, was my comfort show. And I hadn’t found a real replacement for it yet. I’m actually going through a modern family again right now, which

[00:48:11] Christina: I like modern

[00:48:11] Brett: it’s an outstanding show. Some of the best writing on

[00:48:14] Christina: It really is. And, and you know what good for fucking ed O’Neill for making, just like, fuck tons of money between like, um, married with children and modern family, like good for him, right? Like,

[00:48:28] Brett: what is married with children have to do with modern family other

[00:48:31] Christina: well, we’ll add O’Neil as it’s just a mint, like, like the actor

[00:48:35] Brett: I didn’t know. That was his name. Okay. That now I put it together. Okay. Yeah. I thought there was like a third. It was the same producer or

[00:48:41] Christina: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Um, but, uh, yeah,

[00:48:46] Brett: that would be a stretch. But anyway, the show that I found that replaced Chuck that has like the same feel for me is castle.

[00:48:55] Christina: okay. I can see that. I can see that,

[00:48:57] Brett: Like, um, and we were just, we were watching [00:49:00] Firefly before it started. And so there’s these little Fireflight Easter eggs in castle. Uh, Nathan Fillion like shows up for a Halloween costume with, uh, as a space cowboy with his red duster on and it’s, it’s, it’s fun. And it’s the perfect role for Nate, Nate, Nathan Fillion,

[00:49:19] Christina: Oh, it really

[00:49:20] Brett: I haven’t seen him that like it’s, it’s it’s him.

[00:49:24] It’s his role. That’s what he will always be now.

[00:49:27] Christina: No. I agree with you on that. And like, that was a really good bowl for him and it ran a long time. Um, I just, I just Googled it. It was 173 episodes, so that’s good. Cause you have a lot of episodes to go through, which is good for comfort show. So I, and I don’t know how far I’m going to get into this because I’d never liked it that much when it aired originally, but I’m revisiting it 21 years later and I, I kind of have a slightly different experience, So okay.

[00:49:54] I’ve always been, you know, like TV shows, like at least this used to be the [00:50:00] case where like, you know, you kind of have like a brand, like this is the network I watch for these types of shows. I was always an NBC person, you know, I liked the NBC drama. Um, sometimes I liked some of the stuff, you know, with these drama wise on, on ABC.

[00:50:12] I loved the WB because I am always going to be a teen. Um, but, um, you know, and Fox had some comedies that I enjoyed CBS had a few things, but it was never, I’ve never been like a huge CBS person, at least in my lifetime now, like historically like in the seventies and stuff, like in the sixties, like CBS was the shit, but like I’ve never really been a huge CBS television person, but the other day I started rewatching CSI.

[00:50:41] And like from the beginning and kind of like, you kind of have like, just something on, on the background. I I’m not hating it. It’s funny to see like how much the tech has changed and, you know,

[00:50:55] Brett: walk, walk me back is the first one was Las Vegas. Right. [00:51:00] And it had that super hot light-skinned black guy.

[00:51:04] Christina: Yeah.

[00:51:04] Brett: Yeah. Okay. And the, and the former dancer.

[00:51:08] Christina: Yes, mark. Mark Helgenberger. Yeah. And, uh, um,

[00:51:12] Brett: one.

[00:51:13] Christina: yeah, totally. And that’s the one I’m watching and, and, and then the, the, the girl from ER, and, uh, the west wing Georgia Fox and the hot guy from Savannah, which was a soap that, uh, an Aaron spelling soap that aired on the WB in 1996. Um, I would know That and it’s it’s yeah.

[00:51:31] Uh, he, he played a guy who was murdered and his twin brother. And I remember this, I didn’t even have to Google this. I just, I remember this cause that’s my broken brain. Nope. So I’m like half I’m like almost done with the first season now. And I don’t know how far I’m going to get into it, but it’s one.

[00:51:47] of those things that, cause when it. I was in high school. And, um, I think it originally then did go on, on, on Thursday nights. I don’t think it ever went up against ER, cause that would have been dumb on [00:52:00] CBS as part, but, um, You know, like I, I just didn’t watch, I just didn’t watch it, you know like I was aware of it, but I just didn’t really watch it.

[00:52:08] Um, like I, if I was going to do a crime show thing, I would do a law and order if I was going to do more medical thing, I was going to do, uh, an ER and then, um, NBC did their own kind of variation on CSI called crossing Jordan, which I actually really liked. Um, and, but I did watch it and syndication some And then I remembered, uh, the Miami one was the one with Caruso, uh, his, uh, his return to television after.

[00:52:32] Brett: who.

[00:52:33] Christina: Yeah, well, yeah, well they, they always use the who.

[00:52:35] in their theme songs. Um, but David Crusoe was in, uh, Horatio he’s in Miami along with, um, the, uh, the hot Republican chick from, um, um, Western.

[00:52:48] Brett: I never saw westbound. I can’t, I, I can’t help.

[00:52:53] Christina: okay. You would like the west wing. Okay. Ansley from the west wing. Um, uh, Emily Procter as her name. She has a really great voice. That’s why [00:53:00] things stands out, but like, that’s really all. I remember. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her together once, but now I’m like rewatching and CSI and it’s funny. Cause I’m kinda like, yeah, this isn’t, I, I I’m understanding like why it was like a really big hit I’m very bothered constantly by the complete and utter like, lack of even pretending to care about like civil liberties or like rights or anything like that with, with the accused.

[00:53:25] Like it is. It is like appalling to watch it from that perspective. But, um, it’s interesting cause they shot it in on 35 millimeter. So it looks like it could be shot now. Right? Like it’s real. And it was an expensive show. So like, it looks really well done. But then the thing that will, other than that, the clothing and the other stuff, the thing that ages, it is like the tech that they’re using, which, you know, like the, the, the computers that, that you see and like the pagers like that, and that’s, that’s kind of a mind trip to do, but, uh, anyway, that’s [00:54:00] so you are, you’re watching castle, I’m watching CSI and I don’t know how far I’m going to get into it, but, um, yeah, I, I, what happened?

[00:54:10] I kind of burned out on normal, like true. 'cause at this point, like, I feel like I know all the cases. Um, great. And I were talking about this, how, like, it’s a problem if you’re watching cold case and you realize, you know, the case they’re talking about, but you haven’t seen that episode of cold case before you’ve seen another crime show, that’s talked about the same case and you’re like, oh yeah, I know this case.

[00:54:31] And so I’m like, all right, maybe it’s time for fictional, you know, murders instead.

[00:54:36] Brett: Fictional, uh, self-contained episodes or a problem is solved in one week.

[00:54:42] Christina: Yeah.

[00:54:43] Brett: Yeah. I don’t think they ever did story arcs on CSI, but I don’t

[00:54:47] Christina: Well, they kind of did, but it wasn’t like, like they had, they had some like, uh, but it was, you know, some of the interpersonal things would carry on, but it wasn’t like, it was a strongly interpersonal show. Like you, you, it was designed [00:55:00] so you could come in and come out. But like two of the characters, like Grissom and, and, uh, Sarah, uh, like we’re in a relationship.

[00:55:08] I remember, I remember.

[00:55:09] the internet, like going crazy when, cause they’d only hinted at it. And then they’d like ended one of the episodes, like six seasons in and they’re like in bed together. And it’s like, oh Yeah.

[00:55:17] they’ve been together for a while. Now we just didn’t say anything about it. And it’s just been happening off screen and like the audience lost their minds.

[00:55:23] Um, which is funny because Yeah. I mean that, that’s an approach. And apparently now the, the reason I got into this and I haven’t watched the new one is apparently they have not even apparently this is fact they’ve rebooted it and announced CSI Vegas. And they brought back William Peterson and Georgia Fox, uh, who were the.

[00:55:43] Pair that was in a relationship and as well as some, um, some new people to do like a 10 episode reboot with the potential for more episodes. So Bruckheimer can, can make even more money.

[00:55:57] Brett: I’ll be cure. Keep me posted as you go through [00:56:00] CSI. This there’s this thing that was like super common with nineties shows or early two thousands for that matter where for the first season and most of the second season, they would very much be single episode doses. Like there’s a problem set up in the cold open, and it’s solved with a tight, tell you a little boat by the end of the half hour or one hour, depending on the show.

[00:56:28] And they, they have the formula. You come to love the formula, you know, what to expect, and it feels comfortable. And then they start doing multi-episode plots. And then by season five, there’s a story arc that takes the whole season. Like they set something up in episode one and you keep tuning back. To follow the same story and it’s a different kind of serial storytelling.

[00:56:55] And it seems to be the pattern like I’m, I’m, [00:57:00] I’m going through old shows now. And these are things I never noticed before, but it seems to happen to just about every show from that era, which like shows now there aren’t most shows that are worth watching are longer plot arcs.

[00:57:17] Christina: Yeah, no, most of them are serialized, Right?

[00:57:19] Like most of them are going to be, are going to have that in large part because at this point, many people now binge-watch, so we’ve started to, to build it in like, it’s weird because some of them are still designed to be watched one episode a week or whatnot.

[00:57:33] But there is this understanding that people are going to watch many at a time. So it

[00:57:39] Brett: do it Netflix style and dump them all at once and

[00:57:42] Christina: Right. Exactly. So, so you, so you need to have like a continuing story thing where you get to know stuff. And so they can, you know, start with, with, you know, one arc and then go through, you know, the end and you’re right.

[00:57:53] It did change in the two thousands. Um, there were some shows that would you kind of a mix of things, ER, was like a good [00:58:00] example where they had like things that could last, you know, whole seasons. Um, but they had other things happening too

[00:58:08] Brett: Well, like subplots that, that go on across a season, but then each episode still has kind of a formulaic, beginning and end.

[00:58:19] Christina: exactly. And like, like, ER, I think like did a good job with that. Then you had things like the wire where it was very determined from the beginning of each season, had a theme and was unraveling like a certain, you know, thing. Right. Um, so

[00:58:34] Brett: I also, I’ve never seen the wire, the wire and the west wing. I feel like I need to watch eventually.

[00:58:39] Christina: Oh yeah.

[00:58:40] Brett: tried madman. Like I always, people always talked about Madmen and it won a bunch of awards and I always, I love John ham and I thought someday I’ll sit down and watch madman. So I recently tried and I could not get into it.

[00:58:55] It’s so fucking slow. And it [00:59:00] hurts me. Like I can’t, I can’t I’m on like four episodes in and I just can’t do it anymore.

[00:59:06] Christina: Yeah. Um, I love mad men, so I don’t want to tell you there, but I

[00:59:11] Brett: Al like maybe it’s just me

[00:59:15] Christina: yeah, cause I, I slow is not something that I would think about with that. Show me. Maybe it’s not fast moving, but I just feel like it’s a good character study. I don’t know. It’s just, it’s a really good show. Um,

[00:59:24] Brett: episodes in and really nothing had happened. It was all character development.

[00:59:30] Christina: It’s a very character strong show. I mean, honestly, because it’s about an ad agency, it’s not going to have a ton of, there are some plot lines and some things that expose themselves, but it is really a character drama. It’s, it’s not, you know, like,

[00:59:41] Brett: I need a conflict to get me interested.

[00:59:44] Christina: so you would enjoy the, you would enjoy the wire in that regard.

[00:59:47] Um, uh, I would also recommend if you haven’t seen it, it’s not on stream, but you can get it on Plex. Um, I’ve said this before, but I will once again recommend, um, homicide life on the street, because that is in [01:00:00] many ways, like the precursor for all of that. And that was based on David Simon’s book and he wound up writing for it for a little bit.

[01:00:07] And that is the best cop show ever, ever, ever, ever. Um, like it was, and they were doing fast cuts. Like now you would watch it and you would feel like it was slow moving, but like when they, and when it came out in like 93, like they were doing jump cut stuff. Was discerning like disconcerting to people to the point that like reviewers would comment on it, you know?

[01:00:29] And they were like, oh, we don’t know if audiences will be able to, you know, like kind of keep up with the, the edit style and whatnot. And, um, um, it was, uh, canceled several times by NBC and then saved several times. Um, but Yeah.

[01:00:46] uh, homicide is like, uh, Andre Brower, um, before he was on Brooklyn, Hein Hein was a detective, a Frank Pembleton and

[01:00:53] Brett: Andre.

[01:00:55] Christina: he’s the black guy.

[01:00:55] He’s the captain.

[01:00:56] Brett: Oh, cool. Okay.

[01:00:58] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. So [01:01:00] he won Emmys for that role and on homicide. I mean, it’s a drama. Uh, it’s also, uh, where, uh, Richard Belzer, um, is detective munch character who has gone on to beyond like dozens of other shows, like had, uh, he like had a whole, like 10 season arc on, on law and order SVU. Uh, the character was created for homicide and he was a character in homicide.

[01:01:19] Brett: Nice. All right.

[01:01:20] Christina: Uh, so yeah, that, that, that, that’s a good one.

[01:01:23] Brett: I will check it out after castle. Maybe.

[01:01:27] Christina: Yeah.

[01:01:28] Brett: No, I always watched three or four shows at once.

[01:01:30] Christina: What? We’ll get, give it a shot. I will say like, It’s going to be, because you’ll only be able to find it on, on SD. Um, and DVD reps, give it a shot. It’s a 90 show is going to be, even though they make the quick cuts, it it’s going to be kind of a slower pace. And some of the stuff is when I, but it’s, it’s a really good show.

[01:01:48] Like it’s.

[01:01:49] Brett: Speaking of rips. My Plex stopped. I can’t load it on my apple TV anymore. Like I can still get to it through the web [01:02:00] interface. I can still get to it from my iPad, but on the apple TV, my server just shows up with the little yellow triangle and says it’s not online. And I can’t figure out, I can’t figure out how to remove it and reset it.

[01:02:12] I can’t figure out why it wouldn’t be work. It’s driving me nuts. Cause I have, I got Northern exposure on there and that was kinda my other comfort show. And now I can’t watch it on my apple TV and that’s where I may not.

[01:02:28] Christina: Nice.

[01:02:29] Brett: is the other thing I do with my Synology is run my own Plex server.

[01:02:33] Let’s talk about even OLDER TV, shall we?

[01:02:33] Christina: Yeah, we do that too. Um, Northern exposure. Do you have it with the original music?

[01:02:38] Brett: Uh, I do not know. Um, but I also have news radio, which is holds up very well.

[01:02:46] Christina: my God. I was going to say Newsradio is my favorite sitcom of the nineties, hands down

[01:02:49] Brett: Yeah, it

[01:02:50] Christina: my, in my opinion. And that’s one of my comfort shows. That’s one of the shows I can watch forever. And in my opinion, like news radio was the best comedy of the nineties and it’s, it was [01:03:00] the DVDs are great because they have tons of audio commentaries, and they of this is amazing.

[01:03:07] They got the guy who ran, uh, programming and like the schedule for NBC who hated. They got him on one of the commentaries, like with the creator and some of the actors, and basically got him to admit that like, yeah, he was just kind of being a Dick and didn’t care what the rating said. He was going to move them around to a million different times to no one could find it cause he just didn’t get the show or like the show.

[01:03:26] Um, it was a very interesting commentary. They also got, um, um, Warren Littlefield who was the president of NBC and also was kind of nice to show and then was kind of not nice the show. They got him on the commentary tracks too. And he had to kind of have a Mia culpa kind of awkward conversations, but also brilliant.

[01:03:42] And, uh, it makes me miss DVD commentaries because, um, that’s the sort of shit that, uh, there are very few shows that would do like, but it makes sense like, but those writers and those producers that they’d be like, yeah, we’re going to bring on people who were really shitty to us and ask them questions that we know that the fans would want to know. [01:04:00]

[01:04:00] Brett: Do you think we would have Joe Rogan? If it wasn’t for news radio, there’s a downside. Um, anyway.

[01:04:09] Christina: actually, I’m not sure. Um, probably not, but there’s still an alternate universe where, because of a standup comedy, he could have gotten fear factor and fear factor is, was what then led him to doing, you know, he still did standup and comedy and stuff like that. And that led to the podcast. I’m not really sure.

[01:04:26] Honestly, it probably, uh, it would be different, but I don’t know.

[01:04:30] Brett: Yeah, I’m sure there’d be like a whole butterfly effect. If we removed Joe Joe Rogan from the equation. I’m sure.

[01:04:37] Christina: Well, he was originally, he was originally not supposed to be, it.

[01:04:39] was supposed to be Ray Romano and Raimondo got fired.

[01:04:42] Brett: Oh, well that sucks.

[01:04:45] Christina: he, well, Ray was apparently very bad and, um, and uh, he owned it and apparently like, he, like, he was just not good. And so they fired him like the first day or first week or whatever. Some, he didn’t even make it to like the pilot filming and, [01:05:00] um, um, but Ray was fine. Cause then

[01:05:02] Brett: Wait, so you’re saying he would have been the, he would have been the maintenance guy on news radio.

[01:05:08] Christina: I think so.

[01:05:09] Brett: Oh, that would be, that would be pretty funny.

[01:05:11] Christina: 'cause, I’m pretty sure Joe, Rogan’s not in the pilot. I’m pretty sure that they had had, they had to have somebody else in his place because again, like they’d fired Ray Romano. Um, but, uh, Yeah. but then a year later within a year, rare mano gets his own fucking sit-com. So

[01:05:27] Brett: He, he did. All right.

[01:05:28] Christina: he did fine.

[01:05:29] Brett: Yeah. And

[01:05:30] Christina: And, And Joe Rogan for all of his problems was great on news radio.

[01:05:34] Brett: was, he was very lovable when you didn’t know about the rest of him.

[01:05:38] Christina: Well, I mean, when you, when you didn’t realize that, like he was essentially playing himself, right.

[01:05:43] Brett: Yeah.

[01:05:44] Christina: you know, conspiracy theory, like kind of machismo guy. I mean, I don’t know. He, he, he was, uh, everybody on that show was great.

[01:05:52] You should totally get some sleep.

[01:05:52] Brett: All right. Lulu is at a breaking point. The only reason she’s not barking right into the microphone is cause I’m scratching her head right now. But if I stop she’ll [01:06:00] bark, so we should wrap up.

[01:06:02] Christina: We should totally wrap up.

[01:06:03] Brett: This has been fun. I’m looking forward to next week with Brian.

[01:06:07] Christina: me too.

[01:06:08] And, uh, thanks everyone for listening. Uh, I think there’s still a listener survey.

[01:06:13] Brett: That’ll be in our show notes that I’d love it. If you filled it out and, uh, Hey Christina, get some sleep.

[01:06:22] Christina: get some sleep.