257: Ode to Indie Apps

A winding journey from Ted Lasso to Windows, with frequent stops at great Mac apps, UN*X tools, and maybe probably that whole Facebook thing.


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Overtired 257

[00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren. I’m here with Brett Terpstra, Brett, how are you?

[00:00:10] Brett: Um, I’m super swell. Uh, fucking amazing. But are you feeling.

[00:00:16] Christina: I am finally feeling.

[00:00:17] better. Thank you. I, uh, I thank you again, Ashley Esqueda for filling in last week. We even punted like several days. And I was just so sick. Um, I did not have the Rona, but I had like one hell of a sinus infection. And I had to go through like the entire seven day course of antibiotics before I started to feel better.

[00:00:37] Brett: So, so you actually were legit sick. Uh,

[00:00:40] Christina: I was like legit sick.

[00:00:42] Brett: I, I might need to see a doctor’s note.

[00:00:46] Christina: I didn’t even tweet, like people were

[00:00:48] Brett: Oh,

[00:00:48] Christina: People were like reaching out to me. They were like, they were like, are you okay? I was like, no, I am saying.

[00:00:54] Brett: I haven’t seen you tweet for three days. Are you okay?

[00:00:57] Christina: That’s basically what it

[00:00:58] Brett: go check her [00:01:00] apartment.

[00:01:00] Christina: that that’s, that’s almost exactly what it was. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I was just, uh, I, I do have a doctor’s note if I needed to get you one, but, uh, I had to do the Teladoc thing.

[00:01:12] Brett: Oh yeah.

[00:01:12] Christina: I mean, I could, I could’ve gone to the doctor, but the Teladoc thing was easier. I was like, I have a sinus infection.

[00:01:18] Like, what are your symptoms? I was like, well, this is what it is like You have these often. Yeah. This time a year, every single year, I was like, actually, if you want to look through my history this time a year, a year ago, you know, like I think it was like two days apart from like a year previously when I last had a Teladoc appointment with a sinus infection, the exact same time.

[00:01:38] So.

[00:01:39] Brett: You would be amazed at how well, if it were time to do a sponsoree that would lead like right into our first sponsor, but it’s not, we gotta wait till like, we’re like 10, 15 minutes in. So put a pin in that.

[00:01:52] Christina: put a pin in that. And then we’ll, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll save that.

[00:01:54] Mental Health Corner

[00:01:54] Christina: for the, for the sponsor read, um, segue. Um, so, [00:02:00] uh, I guess, uh, I have like lots of Bret mental health corner. Catch-up how are you?

[00:02:04] Brett: Oh, uh, so I had like the expected depression after my last manic episode. That only lasted, like, I think about five days and I I’ve been like great ever since totally stable, like a wonderful loving partner, uh, just able to like function in the world. It’s been splendid.

[00:02:30] Christina: Yay. That’s very exciting. That makes me very happy.

[00:02:34] Brett: How have you been

[00:02:35] Christina: Um, I think, okay.

[00:02:36] Brett: mentally? I mean, we know you weren’t great physically.

[00:02:39] Christina: No, I know that’s and that’s what I mean. I mean, not like the best, but you know, getting there. Um, so we’ll, we’ll see my doctor, like, like I said before, he got me, um, the sleep medicine, but then I got sick. So I haven’t even had any chance to like, see, like, if that’s working or anything.

[00:02:57] Brett: My sleep for the last couple of [00:03:00] nights has been really shitty. Not like manic up all night. Shit. He just like tossing and turning

[00:03:06] Christina: Yeah,

[00:03:06] Brett: I wake up around, uh, three or four and then the rest of the morning, I’m just kind of like up and down and, um, it’s draining me.

[00:03:17] Christina: no, that is draining. Am not having good sleep is, is rough. I, um, and then my whole thing is like, I slept so much. When I was sick that like now, like my body is almost like, okay, you’ve had too much sleep, so we’re not, we don’t want to sleep. So it, it it’s been like a weird thing this week, so I didn’t get much sleep last night, but, um, and I’ve been up since five something, um,

[00:03:44] Oh, Ted

[00:03:44] Brett: Yeah, you were up like watching Ted lasso, like the minute it came out.

[00:03:49] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, well, I mean, I can share this. I’m not going to share who shared it with me, so then can get mad. And also I didn’t spoil anything until after the embargo lifted, but a friend of mine [00:04:00] has, um, screener access to the apple TV stuff, which I think actually with our podcasts and given what we talk about, I think I could probably make the case to get screen or access to be totally honest, but I just haven’t gone through those hoops and

[00:04:13] Brett: I, I would, I would have fun with that.

[00:04:15] Christina: Yeah. Okay. I’ll I’ll, I’ll I’ll work on that, but, um, most of the shows. Even though they come out weekly, they drop all the episodes for the press. Um, and, and other people like all at once. So like I’ve seen all of morning show, season two. Um, there are dates before you can talk about stuff. And I I’m, uh, I’m adhering to that, even though I, you know, didn’t technically sign anything.

[00:04:39] I’m not going to spoil things for anyone, but Ted lasso was interesting and that they would only put it up, I think like a few hours or like a day before. The actual episode dropped. So it was one of those things where I knew that the episode was going to come out, like at 9:00 PM my time. And then I logged on at like 7:00 PM and I hadn’t, I hadn’t logged in the day before, so I don’t know [00:05:00] what day, uh, it became available for, you know, earlier, but, but I, but I do know that they would do like, uh, it would be very close to the actual time to drop the episode before press would get it.

[00:05:10] And so I watched the, um, the season for that. And, uh, I’m not gonna spoil anything, but, um, has some good stuff.

[00:05:18] Brett: Yeah. W I, I’m curious to see where the Nate story goes.

[00:05:22] Christina: Yes, because that was the thing, like the penultimate episode, like left on this, like massive, like, like cliffhanger, like reveal, like all season we’ve seen, like, and I’d been, I said this to grant when we were, we’ve been watching the show together and, um, ironically he downloads it from Usenet and then watches it on the plaques and I’m like, you know, we have an apple TV subscription.

[00:05:43] He’s like, Yeah.

[00:05:44] I don’t care. Um, and I’m like, you know what I mean? Like, and I’m like, I get it, whatever, like, I, I I’m, I’m paying them $30 a month or whatever I pay for apple one. Um, so I, but, but it is one of those funny things. I’m like, we, we [00:06:00] actually have the service, we could use this, whatever. Um, and so we’ve been watching it together and I’ve been commenting basically since like the first episode of the season.

[00:06:09] I’m like, they’re building this Nate thing. He’s, he’s having to build a piece having kind of. You know, he’s going towards explosion, but even that, and even kind of seeing like how he was treating will, you know, the kit guy and some of his other behavior, like you could see that, like there was a darkness coming, but to see like the penultimate episode of like what he did to Ted.

[00:06:32] Wow.

[00:06:33] Brett: Well, and, and what’s her name when he like,

[00:06:36] Christina: Right.

[00:06:38] Brett: basically assaults her in the middle of a clothing store?

[00:06:41] Christina: Yeah.

[00:06:41] basically. And, and, and then, you know, she’s very kind about it and he’s looking at himself in the mirror and he spits out himself, you know, like he’s just, he’s, he’s angry. Yeah, I mean, they’re, they’re playing up the in cell thing, like real well, like, and honestly, If he fits the [00:07:00] type, right? Like it, uh, I saw a Twitter thread.

[00:07:02] I’ll, I’ll see if I can find it so we can put it in the show notes, but somebody wrote something last week after the episode came out where they went back and they found, I guess, signs in season one that kind of led to this and kind of showed where like how far back this has been building. And, and there was an interview in the LA times with Nick Muhammad who, who plays, um, Nate.

[00:07:25] That also kind of alluded to the fact that they’d, I guess kind of had the idea for this arc, you know, clearly in the first season, like, like Jason, um and, and Brett Goldstein. Um, who’s also one of the writers on the show, uh, Brett Goldstein is, is, uh, Roy Kent. You know, they both kind of said things to him about like,

[00:07:44] Brett: there. He’s every fucking way

[00:07:46] Christina: exactly.

[00:07:48] Brett: we’re going to name no matter what gender our next cat is, we’re naming our next cat, right cat.

[00:07:52] Christina: I mean, as you should, like, it’s just such a perfect name. Um, but, but it it’s interesting. Cause I think like the [00:08:00] juxtaposition between, uh, Jamie tarts arc, um, this season, um, and, and Nate’s arc, it’s really interesting to see like how those characters, especially from where they were the first season and where they wind up in the second season.

[00:08:15] It’s very interesting.

[00:08:16] Brett: from that first day, when, when Ted asked Nate his name and Nate is floored that anyone cares what his name is. Uh, like I feel like that at the time, very much seemed like we were building Ted lasso his character, but that was absolutely the beginning of. Starting to get this, uh, like it, at first it seemed like he was going to gain like a healthy self

[00:08:43] Christina: Right. Exactly. Exactly. And then,

[00:08:46] Brett: But, that took a turn

[00:08:49] Christina: I took a turn. It took a dark.

[00:08:51] turn and it’s interesting. Cause, and you’ll see it more in the finale. Um, and again, I’m not spoiling anything except to say that they actually said [00:09:00] that, the way that they kind of do this and the way they kind of make this character seem like it’s a realistic sort of scenario where you have people who have maybe been put upon and I’ve been bullied and haven’t been paid attention to, and then they either have a little bit of success go to their head or.

[00:09:17] They have an opportunity to feel like an entitlement, like I’m owed something. Like that’s the thing that sticks out to me is like this, this guy is a piece of shit, Right.

[00:09:25] Like he, whether he’s redeemable or not, I’m not going to, you know, share anything more. And, and, you know, we’ve got at least another season, you know, that there’ll be working that stuff out.

[00:09:34] Um, but there I’ve definitely had in my own life, like the experience of the, of the guy who would think to himself, I’m the nice guy and, and no one, everyone treats me like shit and doesn’t respect me. And I’m so put upon and I’m so, you know, maltreated. Um, but, but, but feel this sense of like, but I’m owed something by the world, like, like someone like Keely should, of course kissed me and, and, [00:10:00] and should be into me.

[00:10:01] And of course I should have the opportunities to be the coach and to be respected to have this and that. And it’s like, no, you’re not right. Like, You’re an a, you’re not a nice guy because many of those guys are not nice guys. And they feel like entitled and, and I’ve, you know, as a woman I’ve dealt with that.

[00:10:21] Way too many times. And, um, and, and sometimes the worst thing that you can do, I hate to say this, but it’s the truth is be nice to one of those. So-called nice guy, sometimes just the absolute worst than you can do, because then if you don’t reciprocate their feelings and if you don’t want to go into that place, they do get angry when you don’t like they get in and it can be scary.

[00:10:44] And it, Yeah, it’s a common thing.

[00:10:48] Brett: It sucks that there are penalties for being nice and that anyone has to be scared of being a decent human being.

[00:10:59] Christina: Yeah, [00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Brett: we were, we were going to start out by talking about Facebook, but this was honestly far more interesting.

[00:11:06] Christina: I agree.

[00:11:07] Sponsor: ZocDoc

[00:11:07] Brett: Um, let’s, uh, let’s jump back to that whole doctor visit thing, uh, because our friend would have been, and he way, our first sponsor today is Zoc doc, uh, which is like four scheduling doctor’s appointments.

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[00:13:06] Christina: Yeah, I, I I’m going to say this. Isn’t part of our Adoree, but I’ve actually used them for years and it’s yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:13] Brett: should have had you do the adoration.

[00:13:14] Christina: Now I have to say like, when I first moved to New York, um, one of the first like advice, I guess, that people gave me, and this was, you know, a decade ago, it was like you seamless grub hub or whatever, And use doc doc.

[00:13:26] And now they have the tele-health stuff too, which is great. But honestly, like one of the most frustrating things is always like, okay, where’s a doctor that takes my insurance. It’s the, you know, it’s like a massive problem. Where’s one near me. And whereas like a, like an immediate medicine or something like that, you know, like where somebody closes.

[00:13:43] Brett: being able to book appointments right from the app. That’s yeah, that’s

[00:13:47] Christina: No, it’s great. And So,

[00:13:48] I’ve used them for years and, and big fan, like legitimately, like that’s not part of our sponsor read, just saying like

[00:13:55] Brett: it is because they would love. Some testimonial, but I [00:14:00] hadn’t actually tried it yet. So you just filled in the testimonial part of the ad read. So that’s Zoc doc.com/ Overtired. Thanks, Christina.

[00:14:10] Christina: Thanks.

[00:14:11] Brett: You just, you made the ad read word.

[00:14:14] Christina: Well it’s good when we have like stuff that, you know what I mean? Like these are the things it’s like, yeah. I’ve been using this for a

[00:14:19] Brett: Well sure. Like we get, like, we get sane box and we get, uh, what was the last one that I was a huge fan of. Oh, hello, fresh. Yeah. We get some stuff that I’m already like a big fan of you long-time user. And those are my, those are my favorite on text expander. Come on.

[00:14:38] Christina: expander, come

[00:14:39] Brett: We get great sponsors.

[00:14:40] Christina: We really do we really do and sponsor us if you, if you have a great product sponsor us. Um,

[00:14:46] Brett: Yeah. W we’ll take your money. We’ll say nice things.

[00:14:50] Christina: definitely.

[00:14:51] Brett: We won’t say nice things about bad stuff though. I feel like I have turned down a fair number of sponsors just because I don’t feel [00:15:00] like they fit us and it’s not something I would actually.

[00:15:04] Christina: No, totally. Like we would not take a Facebook sponsorship.

[00:15:07] Brett: Speaking of nicely done. So is anyone shocked by what’s going on with Facebook? I guess I’m shocked by the six hour downtime like

[00:15:20] Oh, Facebook

[00:15:20] Christina: That was shocking. That was shocking. That was apparently like a, like a BGP DNS misconfiguration, uh, which I, which, which I, I understand, right? like that. the timing was obviously assess here’s. What’s interesting to me. And I said this on rocket, but I can talk about this more in depth with you because you and I, we can talk more freely about this.

[00:15:39] I don’t think that it was related to the whistleblower stuff At all. I think that it.

[00:15:43] was a complete coincidence. But, but the fact that even reasonable people would have a thought in the back of their mind, like, well, maybe to me that says everything about how fucked Facebook is in the trust department, right?

[00:15:57] Like when, even something that’s as [00:16:00] like just stupid bananas, asinine, um, of conspiracy theory to think that a publicly traded company would stage a downtime to get rid of internal documents or other stuff.

[00:16:11] Right. Because that would actually be a crime if that were the case. Um, anything that that, um, was like, um, like, so to think that, that, that would actually be a possibility when obviously it’s not the fact that like, Entertained in a half joking way, says everything about like who this company is.

[00:16:33] Brett: well, I mean, what did he lose? Like six, $7 billion during that period. That that’s a hefty price. That page is for some coverup of, uh, of, uh, a lawsuit you would win.

[00:16:47] Christina: Exactly. Well, and, and also, you know, a cover-up port for a thing that you would lose, like if you actually tried to do that and also like, okay, so they went down to, cause I’m looking at their stock price right [00:17:00] now. Like they, they got as low as you know, um, I dunno like it, the stock dropped a little bit, but then it came back.

[00:17:10] So. Like whatever, they’re still up an insane amount year over year. Like, like, like, like, like a year ago they were at $244 a share. Now they’re like $333 a share. So yeah, that would be a dumb thing to, to take that kind of hit. Um, obviously they, they, you know, it was a, um, just a coincidence, but it is interesting.

[00:17:39] I think by like how not spice we are. Although I have to say, I really liked the whistleblower.

[00:17:44] Brett: Oh, for sure.

[00:17:47] Christina: No, no, but like, she’s not somebody who has like an ideological or like a policy. Which I think is actually good because like a good friend of mine works at the eff and she was like, man, I really [00:18:00] hate her positions on policy.

[00:18:01] And the eff is, you know, it doesn’t like the stuff she’s saying and this and that. And I was like, look, that’s a good thing. We don’t want the whistleblower to have an ideological or in my opinion, like policy bent on this stuff, because that, in my opinion, I think that takes. At least for some of the public and for and for Congress, I think that would maybe taint the positioning a little bit, right?

[00:18:22] Like if you have somebody who had like a very strict point of view and like had a very, like, sort of like ideological like thing and is like, this is why it took these documents and this is why I’m doing this. And these are the, you know, uh, policy decisions you should make with this company. I think.

[00:18:36] That for some people would make them go, Okay.

[00:18:38] well you have an agenda and we’re now going to dismiss or not take us seriously. The concerns you brought up, but when you have somebody who’s like, I knowingly took this job at this company in 2019, even after there had been. At reporting, but I want it to be on this, on this, you know, um, misinformation bent and I trusted, um, that they would be doing the [00:19:00] right things.

[00:19:00] And then what I saw and, and the information I found proved differently. And then the team was disbanded and, you know, somebody who’s going out of her way to saying, I don’t think that people they’re acting malevolently, which. Again, I don’t know if a lot of other people agree with that. Like, I don’t agree with that.

[00:19:15] I think that I, I don’t know if it’s maybe necessarily like intentionally malevolent, but I think that there’s a very conscientious, like intentional decision to not care about those things. Um, but that’s, hasn’t been her positioning and I honestly think that makes the whistleblowing and the stuff that she shared that much.

[00:19:33] Brett: What is the effs kind of beef with, uh, with what she’s.

[00:19:39] Christina: They don’t have a beef with her at all. I think that they would just wish it in their mind, like the perfect person would be somebody who’d be like this company should be split up and, and, you know, be more critical. Right. I honestly, I think their, their biggest thing with her is that they don’t think she’s critical F honestly, And, and to me, I feel like that’s actually, I think the [00:20:00] assets to what she’s saying is to have someone who’s not overly critical of the company is the one who’s doing that.

[00:20:07] Brett: So what exactly is what’s going to come out of? This is any, there’s a congressional hearing. Facebook looks bad, uh, combine that with, you know, a major outage and they lose some money they’re already bouncing back. Is, is there any, any change that’s going to happen because of the whistleblower?

[00:20:31] Christina: That’s unclear, although it is interesting that, you know, they’d had planned this whole, like Instagram for younger adults thing. Like they had the whole Instagram kids thing and that’s been been shuttered,

[00:20:43] Brett: Do they call it your Instagram?

[00:20:45] Christina: No, but, but, uh, you know, Facebook, Instagram kids, or whatever, they had that whole plan.

[00:20:51] Cause you know, for them, their whole thing is, and this is like a, an ongoing kind of concern for them is they’re kind of like. How are we going to get more [00:21:00] users? How are we going to get the next generation of people? Cause Tech-Talk has that stuff under lock and Tik TOK doesn’t even have to pretend to care about things like privacy and other stuff, right?

[00:21:09] Like they’re, they’re, they’re a foreign company and, and I, and, and they don’t even protect. Like, that’s not even part of their Mo right? Like, like, like part of Facebook’s I think problem is that they have acted so paternalistically about their stuff and that the, for so long. And I know this from, from people who I know who’ve worked at the company and some who still do who, people who genuinely think that they were working for a good place and the people who are there still think they work at a good place.

[00:21:33] Right? Like they don’t see themselves as the bad guys, which is very interesting. But I think that if you know, but they need this younger audience, they need that for growth. And so if you’re now getting a lot of regulator attention, because the one thing that regulators will kind of go after is anything involving kids.

[00:21:52] Cause that’s one of the few areas where they can have some teeth and if they’re having to make. Changes to product [00:22:00] rollouts and stuff like that. That’s not insignificant. And I have to think that obviously some of the previous congressional inquiries are part of that, but the leaks are part of that too.

[00:22:08] You know, the fact that like she shared like the research that they shows that shows that teenage girls are more depressed and that eating disorders go up and that suicidal tendencies go up and all these negative behaviors go up when they use Instagram. And then the more those negative behaviors go up, the more they use the app and it’s this, you know, Terrible cyclical cycle.

[00:22:27] And they know this then that I think makes it very difficult for you then to come out and say, Hey, we’re going to make this really great app for kids so that people under 13 can be on our plan.

[00:22:41] Brett: Yeah.

[00:22:43] Christina: So, I don’t know, but, but long-term stuff I’m not really sure. I think though, it’s interesting. I got in a fight with a Benedicta Evans. Who’s an asshole. Fuck him. Um, uh, he’s like a VC piece of whatever he was being, um, uh, [00:23:00] I guess defensive about like what their PR strategy is and whatnot, and, and wanting to know like, oh, you know, how are they supposed to, you know, respond, everyone hates them, this and that.

[00:23:09] And then he made some sort of comment, like a separate related point when journalists built Twitter profiles around their opinions and have hundreds of thousands of followers cheering, their dunks, who’s punching up and who’s punching down, uh, kind of responding to the, the, the idea of, uh, um, you know, um, People who are critical of Facebook.

[00:23:31] Um, and, and, and talking about how, like, how, what their comms response should be. And my response to that, I was like, Yeah.

[00:23:37] the trillion dollar company, if you’re a journalist or just a normal person, if you’re dunking on the trillion dollar company, you’re not punching, you’re not punching down. I’m

[00:23:46] Brett: No, there’s no way that’s

[00:23:49] Christina: There’s no way that happens fuck off. Uh, and then he got into a whole thing with me about it. He was like, you know, if I’d actually said, journalists shouldn’t criticize Facebook, then that would be wrong. But actually, I didn’t say [00:24:00] that at all. And you didn’t make any attempt to understand. You just went for the dunk and the insult, which rather proves my point.

[00:24:05] Fuck off. Do you go, go search for your like weird fetish porn again, that’s a see, that would have been done. That would have been punching. Which I won’t do on Twitter, but I will do on the podcast, he was exposed a number of years ago. It was very funny where he shares some sort of auto-complete thing.

[00:24:19] And it showed like that he had been clearly looking up some like Asian porn star and, um, people had, uh, at a nice dunk on him about that. And like, look like what you like, I don’t care. But that would be, that would be punching down.

[00:24:34] even though his following is much larger than mine. And he has much more money than me, but that would be punching down.

[00:24:39] That would be like a cheap. People critic pro critiquing Facebook and, and, and using their Twitter platforms, even to rail against Facebook is not punching down in any vicinity. I don’t care if you have a hundred million followers, you’re not Facebook, like fuck off with that shit.

[00:24:57] Brett: I agree.

[00:24:58] Christina: Anyway, I’m sorry. That’s my rant.

[00:24:59] I’m not [00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Brett: even mark Zuckerberg as a person

[00:25:02] Christina: right.

[00:25:03] Brett: that that’s not punching down.

[00:25:05] Christina: No, it’s not, it’s not, I I’ll never forget through the social network. Uh, you know, came out 11 years ago, fucking great movie. And when it came out, And I sat at the time, I was like, this is the best thing that ever happened to Facebook. And the company was so upset about that movie. Like they wouldn’t let Sony advertise the movie on Facebook, which was very funny that the Facebook movie couldn’t be advertised on Facebook.

[00:25:25] They tried to claim this because they’d use some or font or this or that, but really they were just butt hurt. And, you know, mark was very hurt by how he was portrayed in the film and this and that I’m like, are you kidding me? Like, that’s the best thing that could’ve ever happened, because even though the portrayal was not kind, it was at least iconic, you know what I mean?

[00:25:45] Like, and it kind of created this mystique thing it’s like, and I, I still stand by it. Like that movie was the best thing that ever happened to that company. And, and, and that wasn’t punching down.

[00:25:54] you know what I mean? And that was something where like, they were very upset by their portrayal and were very upset.

[00:25:58] Oh, we’ve been misunderstood. Like [00:26:00] that’s always kind of been their thing is like, you know, we’re we really want to change the world and we have good intentions and a lot of the people who work. I do, but they’ve built this and have optimized for really disturbing behavior, which we continue to see over and over and over again.

[00:26:16] And it’s just like, fuck man.

[00:26:18] Brett: Speaking of surveillance. Oh, that was, I’m going to give that a B.

[00:26:24] Christina: Yeah. That’s a B,

[00:26:25] Brett: That’s a B, but there’s big news in home security. Have you heard

[00:26:31] Christina: I have not.

[00:26:33] Brett: that’s weird. Cause we just talked about it like two weeks ago, Christina,

[00:26:37] Christina: Well, tell me again, tell me

[00:26:38] Brett: I didn’t give you any heads up. I’m sorry.

[00:26:41] Christina: you didn’t, you didn’t.

[00:26:43] Sponsor: SimpliSafe

[00:26:43] Brett: Well, simply safe. Just launched their new wireless outdoor security camera.

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[00:28:23] Oh, Amazon

[00:28:23] Brett: That would have been a weird sponsor to have last week when Ashley and I talked about the, what we coined the wing doorbell, uh, Amazon’s new surveillance system.

[00:28:35] Christina: Oh, yeah.

[00:28:37] Brett: Okay.

[00:28:38] W you got you, you, I I’m pretty sure you didn’t listen to the episode you were sick, but, uh, Ashley, I can’t remember. I think Ashley came up with it, but basically we realized that their new flying, uh, camera was basically a ring doorbell with wings and Facebook totally dropped the ball and [00:29:00] didn’t call it.

[00:29:00] Or Amazon totally dropped the ball and didn’t call it the wing door.

[00:29:04] Christina: They tell the valley that also they totally dropped the ball on not like licensing, like X wing, right? Like, like, like they had call it like the X wing doorbell and had like a, like a star wars. Tie-in like, they might’ve convinced more people to be like, oh, this isn’t that creepy. Even though, you know, it’s like the creepiest thing.

[00:29:23] Brett: I have these stickers that, so my favorite get app, they should sponsor us, but tower, have you ever used tower?

[00:29:30] Christina: I love tower.

[00:29:31] Brett: amazing. They, they send me stickers every time I get a new machine, I’m like, Hey, can you guys send me more stickers? And they make amazing stickers, but they have these ones that are like, uh, uh, get history, you know, like when you do a good history and you get the, uh, branch, uh, graph, um, Uh, they have one that is a sword and it says, may the fork be with you?

[00:29:58] And I love that one. [00:30:00]

[00:30:00] Christina: I love that. That’s so good. You made it for

[00:30:02] Brett: And then they have the one that’s this huge network of, of, of good history. And it says, get push coffee. Me. And those are my two favorite stickers on my laptop.

[00:30:13] Oh, Indie Mac Software

[00:30:13] Christina: I love it. Um, this, when you talking about tower, this just reminded me, do you remember the app?

[00:30:18] Brett: Oh, I was, oh my God. I was just going to bring it up. Did you get Virgin?

[00:30:22] Christina: yeah.

[00:30:23] Brett: my God. And it’s it’s, uh, uh, Florian and, uh, Catlin and like all the people behind it now are awesome. Like it got picked up by, by three indie developers and, uh, it was their first acquisition and tell people what kaleidoscope is before I get over excited.

[00:30:43] Christina: So it’s a visual diffing tool, but what’s cool about it. I mean, so there are a lot of different tools out there to basically show you the changes between your files. And so, you know, highlight, you know, changes in text or, or whatnot, And it’s really useful in documents and code commits and.

[00:30:56] I see what’s happening there, there are a lot of plugins for things, you know, [00:31:00] um, you use with get clients. What I love about kaleidoscope is that is also one that’s like works with images and works with other file types, which is unique. Um, maybe not completely unique, but, but certainly when the app came out like a decade ago, way more uncommon, um, than, uh, than it would be now.

[00:31:18] And so it’s a really. Attractive applications, easy to use. And then I like it because again, like you can, use it with images, you can use it with other types of file types, you know, and compare things. And it works really well.

[00:31:30] Brett: it can integrate with the X code debugger, like directly with LLDB and you can any, any object you can print in LLDB you can diff the output of two different objects and like, just like straight from the command. And they have a command line tool. K S diff that you can use instead of a regular dif output.

[00:31:53] Yeah, it’s so good.

[00:31:54] Christina: It’s really good.

[00:31:55] Brett: And, and merge, uh, conflict resolution, like [00:32:00] it’s super, like all keyboard bass you can flip through and, and merge, uh, get conflicts as it’s my it’s my merge 12, I just say merged tool. I can solve any conflict.

[00:32:11] Christina: No totally. It’s one of those things. Like it’s not inexpensive. It’s, it’s a, and they did raise the price a little bit, but there’s no subscription. And it’s been a really long time since it’s been updated, it’s gone through a jillion different ownerships. It was originally made by sofa who also made, uh, the, the, the, um, SPN client versions.

[00:32:28] Um, and then that company was bought by Facebook actually. Uh, Yeah.

[00:32:33] so they were bought by Facebook and they were part of the Facebook paper team and, uh, which is not to be confused, but Twitter paper or Dropbox paper, this was a Facebook team that, that wound up, uh, they had kind of a prototype for something that didn’t really work.

[00:32:48] Um, and I don’t know If Founders are still there, but, but they left. And so then they sold the apps. I believe it then went to black pixel might have been, but there might’ve been somebody else before that, but I [00:33:00] think that then went to black pixel black

[00:33:02] Brett: was anyone before black pixel, then it just languished. Cause I don’t remember any version updates between

[00:33:07] Christina: Right. And, and then black pixels took over and believes like a version two and then black pixel, um, had some, uh, some challenges and, and kind of changed their business.

[00:33:15] I think they’ve been since. By someone and then it went to another company and then, uh, Florian and, um, um, other guys, uh,

[00:33:26] Brett: Atlin,

[00:33:27] Christina: you Atlin, uh,

[00:33:29] Brett: and monkey, uh, I forget its actual name.

[00:33:34] Christina: Exactly. So, so then, so then, uh, Christopher and Florianne and, and, uh, monkey, and these other guys like picked it up and that’s been the most recent thing. And so they bought it, I guess it finalized at the end of last year. Um, and apparently it took a really long time for them to do that. And they’ve spent the better part of the year, like updating the app completely because the app had basically been abandoned.

[00:33:54] And I’ve even somebody how I was alerted that It came out, um, was, that somebody responded to [00:34:00] a tweet thread that I sent in 2019, asking if there were any good diffing tools for, for Macko Wes, not kaleidoscope. I was like, I don’t want to, you know, cause I couldn’t find my license for that. And I was like, I don’t want to buy this sand because it’s abandoned where, and it was at that point,

[00:34:16] Brett: It was,

[00:34:17] Christina: was.

[00:34:18] And, and so I wasn’t going to be willing to like put money into that

[00:34:21] Brett: never stopped using it. Just praying that it would keep working.

[00:34:24] Christina: Right. And that was the thing. I couldn’t find my license. And so I was in a thing where I was like, well, I’m not going to say.

[00:34:30] Brett: sure. I get

[00:34:30] Christina: A hundred dollars on this. I’m not because it’s abandoned where, and, and there’s no guarantee that it’ll go anyway. Now, in this case, it wasn’t, and I would have been okay. But in most cases with that, that’s not how that.

[00:34:42] works

[00:34:42] Brett: Sure, sure.

[00:34:43] Christina: So, um, you know, I was having to use kind of other plugins, get Len some other things and, and, um, some other tools and there’s just nothing. There’s nothing that’s as good as that. It’s just a really well-crafted app. And, uh, the new team they’re people who have. A long experience. Like they worked on points and, [00:35:00] and worked on like some other stuff.

[00:35:01] Like they have like long Mac app experience and like they’re into it. And so I’m,

[00:35:05] Brett: serious, serious indie credit behind it

[00:35:07] Christina: serious indie cred. And I mean, it is the thing, as you mentioned, all the integrations that it can do, I think makes it more than just like a, uh, a diff tool. Because if you say diff tool $150, like that’s, that’s a hard thing for a lot

[00:35:20] Brett: cause there are free ones.

[00:35:22] Christina: there are free ones that are very good. And there are ones.

[00:35:24] that, you know, like, like sublime has, you know, one and, and there are, you know, other

[00:35:28] Brett: I’m sure there are multiples for D vs code. That seems like the kind of thing vs code would Excel at.

[00:35:34] Christina: Yeah. get lenses is a really popular one and, and nothing against any of those things. And they can be really good to have it in your IDE, but sometimes like you need the separate thing, like you said, or you want to use it as your merge client.

[00:35:46] Right. Which sometimes can just be the best thing. And, um, and for me, the imaging stuff has always been like one of the big standouts, um,

[00:35:54] Brett: Yeah. It’s very cool.

[00:35:55] Christina: Uh, cause that was something I used to use a lot, but Yeah. I mean, it’s a, I’m [00:36:00] really happy for them and I’m happy to support them. So yay. For like a good Mac app, like coming back from the dead, like hell yeah.

[00:36:08] Brett: I think the price to buy it new now is around 150. Right.

[00:36:12] Christina: Yep. It’s 150,

[00:36:13] Brett: And then an upgrade is 70. I

[00:36:15] Christina: 70.

[00:36:17] Brett: Yeah, totally worth it. Like I am, I was so thrilled. Uh, Jean McDonald actually contacted me. She’s doing PR for them.

[00:36:24] Christina: Oh, that’s awesome

[00:36:26] Brett: if anyone doesn’t remember Jean McDonald, she got her start with, uh, with smile,

[00:36:31] Christina: with smiles. Sure.

[00:36:32] Brett: text expander and PDF pen.

[00:36:35] Uh, and now she’s with micro blog, uh, and she’s, uh, on the side, she’s doing PR for, uh, indie indie devs that she loves.

[00:36:44] Christina: Yeah. She also does app camp for

[00:36:46] Brett: Yeah. Oh,

[00:36:47] Christina: uh, uh, Gene’s amazing. yeah.

[00:36:49] So that’s awesome. I didn’t know. I’m even getting like the best PR

[00:36:53] Brett: Right, right.

[00:36:55] Christina: like the total indie crowd, right? Like, cause if you’re going to be doing like Indy creds stuff, like she could be [00:37:00] one of the first people I would think of.

[00:37:01] Right. Like if I were, if I were like trying to promote my, my, my app and I were hiring somebody, like she’d be at the top of my list. Very happy for them. Um, I was really excited to see that yesterday. I was like, yes, because you know, like we’ve lost so many good backups over the years and it’s nice to see one come back.

[00:37:22] Brett: Yeah, one, one come back, not as a catalyst or electron app.

[00:37:26] Christina: No, that’s the thing. Right. And, and cause, cause part of, I mean, and I’m not having anything against like a

[00:37:31] Brett: I know.

[00:37:32] Christina: some stuff against, but like, no, but you know what I mean? Like you do do what you need to do, but I mean like, like, uh, get tower, which is an app.

[00:37:37] we love is, is, is electron I believe.

[00:37:40] But, um, you know, It’s nice when it’s native, especially something like, like a different tool, um, that, that can be important depending on how big the file sizes and whatnot, but even even the native stuff aside, I’m just happy to see an app that had been abandoned and had gone through a bunch of different ownership changes.

[00:37:58] I’m happy to see it, you know.

[00:37:59] like [00:38:00] Have a, a real team behind it and really be like serious about not just. you know, making sure that it runs on the latest version of Mac iOS, but like, no, we’re going to do a whole, you know, over like haul of this and we’re going to like bring this into like the modern workflow.

[00:38:16] Like, I love that.

[00:38:17] Brett: Have you ever used command Z and get.

[00:38:20] Christina: Um, probably.

[00:38:22] Brett: They, they went, they jug deep into like ref log management. So any, any action you can perform, any commit, any merge, any, uh, push, well pushes a little more complex, but you can hit command Z just like you wouldn’t any Mac app and undo. Uh, get action. Uh, and it’s like, kind of, it’s like across the board, it just, it just works the way you would expect it to in any Mac app, you can hit command Z and undo your tangled, get history.

[00:38:56] It’s it’s, that’s another app that [00:39:00] I would love it. If they sponsored us, they’ve, they’ve sponsored my blog and I talked to tower, uh, about sponsorship and there, once they get through, you know, cause this basically three guys, uh, and, and they’re. They’re getting through all the web development and all the app development that’s necessary for this launch.

[00:39:19] And then maybe those certain thinking about sponsorships.

[00:39:22] Christina: That’d be great. And, and what I love about what I love about tower is like it’s, cross-platform, which not that.

[00:39:29] I like, I usually don’t use get on windows, but it’s nice for people who might, you know what I mean? Like that they have Like, a, it’s a nice cross-platform like tool.

[00:39:38] Brett: Like, I’m trying to our at work. Our, um, our new blogging platform is all based on GitHub and Jekyll. And, uh, that’s great for me because that’s what I do anyway. But, you know, I’m getting Victor on board. I’m getting Aaron on board and [00:40:00] when it comes to, uh, working with, get, and, and working with pull requests and everything, get hub desktop.

[00:40:08] A lot, but, um, I’m trying to get the company to buy everyone copies of tower because it’s, it’s so slick and so easy.

[00:40:18] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, I, and I think that’s fair. It does do a lot in a can I kind of make the process of at least seen some of your changes and,

[00:40:24] Brett: Well, especially with pull requests, it doesn’t

[00:40:26] Christina: Yeah. For Puerto

[00:40:27] Brett: Well, no, it doesn’t though, because you hit command R to make a new poll request. It just dumps you to the website.

[00:40:33] Christina: Yeah.

[00:40:34] I was going to say, um, I mean, I would say the pull request thing, I would probably just use the website rather than the desktop app, to be honest because the new pull request, um, stuff, all the changes they’ve made to that are really good, but I, but I It’s really it’s like, but like I, I would use, in most cases I would be using the, um, the website rather than.

[00:40:51] The desktop app, but the desktop app is for people who like need kind of a babies versus like very basic, I think kind of, you know, access to things. I [00:41:00] think it’s, it’s not a bad, um, tool, but if you want to get more granular with it, I think you, you need, uh, either to handle it completely in your coder or even more preferably like having a separate, like dedicated client, if you’re not going to be very comfortable using the command line.

[00:41:16] Oh, esoteric text editors

[00:41:16] Brett: Speaking of amazing, easy to use Mac apps, you know what isn’t

[00:41:22] Christina: What’s that

[00:41:23] Brett: them. So,

[00:41:26] Christina: this segue and know that you’re you’re so right. Like,

[00:41:28] Brett: you know, what’s the opposite of all of that,

[00:41:31] Christina: of that like quickly, quickly Google, how do I exit them? Right. Like, that’s like one of the most, like one of

[00:41:37] Brett: that one. Autocompletes how do I, X

[00:41:40] Christina: yeah, it’s like one of the top like stack overflow, like questions.

[00:41:44] Brett: I’ve gotten back into it though. Um, I, uh, I, so during the, my last manic episode, I got to a point where I was tired enough that I couldn’t really, uh, [00:42:00] do anything new and creative, which, which is honestly, that’s the best part of mania is the creativity that I get from it.

[00:42:07] Christina: I can see.

[00:42:08] Brett: I hit a point where I just went.

[00:42:11] The ideas were coming, but I didn’t have the energy to follow through on anything. And the thing that I found that was relaxing and felt like obsessive, but, but meditative was getting back into learning them and like I’m passable at VIM. Like I know how to get around. I know how to edit and save and common outlines and move around.

[00:42:40] But not, not, not fluid at VIM. I’m not fluent in VIM. So I started just like doing like daily practices. Like I would pick like, okay, here’s what I want to do. And I want to do it fast and I want to be able to do it with. [00:43:00] Thinking through the letter sequence in my head, and I would just practice it to gain the muscle memory.

[00:43:06] And I would repeat the yank inside word, like escape, insert, and, and. I got pretty good at it to the extent that I actually did some coding and some writing, I got a, a markdown set up in VIM. Uh, there are, there’s like a glio, uh, gives you like a full-screen word, wrapped text editor for markdown combined with like a VIM markdown from plastic boy and my own custom theme that I poured it over to them.

[00:43:43] And I. It makes a pretty damn good, a markdown editing application.

[00:43:50] Christina: I mean, I I’m, I’m going to point out the irony here that you are working on a markdown editing application. I’m just, I’m just having to point that out there.

[00:43:59] Brett: I [00:44:00] know. Well, and now, now I go back to like sublime in vs code. And I find myself installing all of the VIM plugins because once you get good at them motion, like moving, moving around in them, it it’ll mess you up for like working in a regular tech center.

[00:44:18] Christina: this is what I’ve heard, and this is why the very few times, and I’ve never gotten into them because every time I’ve tried, like I’ve almost kind of gotten there and I I’ve gotten, I’ve gotten like never gotten as into it, as you had. I’ve never been willing to give it a long enough of a chance because every time I start to kind of maybe inch that way, cause I can see the appeal, then it does become that thing where I’m like, Okay.

[00:44:38] No, this is going to alter my workflow everywhere because this is going to fuck up everything I do every other place. And I just don’t have the, I just don’t have the inclination for that. I’m going to start

[00:44:48] Brett: you said, like exit VIM, like, so you get this, uh, escape colon w to save your file and escape, colon WQ to save and quit. You get that in your head. You get [00:45:00] that in your muscle memory. And next time you’re in like, say BS code or, or your email and you hit escape. Colon w. Puts in escape, uh, it beeps and then puts a colon w into your editor.

[00:45:15] Christina: And you’re like, no, I mean, yeah, exactly. Well, and this is what I’m saying. Like, I knew that this would happen. So it’s like, okay. And I’m not willing to go like full like Linux and are not willing to do like the full like embodiment thing. Although like you can install in a lot of apps, you know, like, like, uh, you know, key commands and like, you know, um, key bindings and stuff like vs code has been mowed and whatnot, which is great.

[00:45:37] But yeah, I’m just not willing to do that. I am going to bring up something, I guess, controversial because why. So I get why like, and I, I would agree with you. I think that if I had to choose like a side of the editor wars, I mean, frankly, I would choose Pico slash nano just because that’s the easiest, but.

[00:45:55] Brett: No, no.

[00:45:56] Christina: I do too, but it’s on everything and I can at least very quickly [00:46:00] edit a file. Usually what I do is I just like have like a remote editing tool honestly, is what I do. But, um, I, um, just cause I can never remember what I’m doing and in getting the, the, the lion Surratt the right way, even if I know how to quit, like I just, I don’t want to do deal with it, but here, here, here’s my thing.

[00:46:18] My question for you. So I think ideologically, I would be more on the VIM side. Having said that I think about you. And I think that the stuff you’re into, I also think about the shit that I’m into. Have you ever looked into org mode with, with Emacs?

[00:46:32] Brett: haven’t like, so I’ve heard about the, like the whole time that I’ve been into like TaskPaper and, and mark down. And all of that org mode always comes up, but I don’t actually know anything about it.

[00:46:46] Christina: Yeah. So cause like every time I like, think about like really going full nerd, like really going out there I’m like, man work mode is actually interesting. Like I’ve watched videos on it and whatnot. And like, I [00:47:00] don’t think I could live that life, but.

[00:47:03] Brett: org mode life.

[00:47:04] Christina: But it’s interesting, right? Cause yeah, cause people like it, they make it, their Wiki, they make it their task paper.

[00:47:08] They make it like their editor. They make it like everything. And like you can just kind of work things into different workspaces in different org. Like it’s kind of bad-ass, I’m not gonna lie. Um, and I’ve always kind of thought. The market for this would be non-existent, but there would be like a way that if you could kind of have a semi gooey, you know, easier gooey kind of wrapper around org mode, like that would be kind of slick, Right.

[00:47:29] Like if you could do like, like, like a, like a, you know, a Mac them thing for four, but like, that would be kind of cool. It’s interesting. Cause I’ve, I’ve read up cause I love open source drama. So sometimes I read the, the Emacs mailing list and, and it’s interesting to see kind of like the push and pull of the people who are like begging pleading the other maintainers and other contributors.

[00:47:52] Maybe movie max to the, the 20th century level on the 21st century and the people who are like, no, it’s, it’s [00:48:00] perfect as it is. And we’re making no changes. And, and, and, and you have people who are like, no, but even these people who are Purists.

[00:48:05] they’re like, no, I get it. I’m not saying to, to alter what makes it great, but there are new paradigms and new ways that things have happened.

[00:48:13] Them, I think for his credit, like you have, you know, like, like the, the tool that you’re talking about, like you have people who’ve created different interfaces and themes and stuff to just be like, okay, you still have the weird ass, like key bindings on the shit that like, you can only use in BEM. And like you, this is how we work thing, but you can have your custom

[00:48:32] Brett: there are so many good plugins

[00:48:34] Christina: we’ll have something, you have these plugins, you have this other stuff. And like, and you can have like package managers and, and visual interface, things like, like Mack them and stuff that don’t require people to like live completely in their, you know, good new terminal, um, in the Emacs people, some of them really want to do that.

[00:48:53] And then the other people are just like, quite you. So it’s funny to, it’s kind of [00:49:00] see them, them struggle with that. Cause I, cause there’s a part of me that’s like, Man. I think that there could be potentially, like, I think about Houston homes. when I look into org, what I’m like, man, this would be stuff that that would be completely Bret shit. I, think maybe.

[00:49:15] Brett: So when I when I got into, yes, I don’t mean to change the subject too abruptly. I absolutely, I spent some time recreating NV alt in the ultra, in them using a combination of, uh, like a nerd tree style directory listing with, uh, uh, ACC as to grep through all of the notes. But anyway, When I started my most recent exploration, I set up the Nord VIM color palette.

[00:49:48] Have you do you know, Nord?

[00:49:50] Christina: Yes,

[00:49:51] Brett: Uh, they, they have, they have like a VIM mode for Nord. It’s beautiful. And I got into it, but I really, I work with [00:50:00] a light theme in my ID. I know I’m a weirdo, but I like light themes. And I have this one that I made called lucky charm. That it looks like a bowl of lucky charms at like the, when you get to the bottom and the milk is all stained, a little bit yellow, and you’ve got just like random marshmallows floating in the, in the milk.

[00:50:24] That was the inspiration for lucky charms. The, the theme that I have it for. Uh, text mate and vs code and sublime. And now I have published a VIM version of it that if anyone thinks, oh, you know what, I like light themes, and I might want to try something new have at it. If, if you have additions comments, et cetera, go ahead.

[00:50:54] If your comment is light theme stuck, you, you can, you can dev [00:51:00] null that that’s fine,

[00:51:02] Christina: It is your theme as the sun, you’re getting.

[00:51:04] Brett: Yes, it is on my GitHub. Uh, I will link it. Uh, there are screenshots. If you’re on my GitHub right now, you can see what I’m talking about, but, uh, you know, what else I got into at the same time

[00:51:18] Christina: What is that?

[00:51:19] Brett: sucks. Like I have struggled to care about Teamworks for a long time.

[00:51:26] Uh, but it is as if, cause I was doing a lot of SSH between multiple machines. once you get like T set up with resurrection and, and uh, session restore, It’s kind of amazing that you can like SS I actually have it. So when I SSH into my Mac book pro from my Mac mini, it automatically triggers a T muck session that gives me basically I can terminate my SSH session at any time.

[00:51:58] Nothing dies. [00:52:00] None of the processes I have running die. And the next time I SSH N it just resumed the session and that alone. Pretty freaking cool. I got into all of the tech selection and everything stuff, but

[00:52:14] Christina: now, now, do you use I term with this or do you use to actually,

[00:52:17] Brett: what? No. Okay. So yes, I use, I turn, but I don’t use, I terms T monks mode.

[00:52:24] Christina: what I, was going to ask.

[00:52:25] Brett: I I don’t get why I would want, I terms team mux mode. Like I actually love. T mux. Uh, I term like make, I term has a Teamworks mode that makes T invisible. So it’s, it’s creating teamwork sessions and Teamworks pains, but representing them as windows and tabs.

[00:52:47] And I just. I don’t know. I don’t get the benefit of that versus, uh, well, I guess, because I, I like to run everything on remote [00:53:00] servers. Teamworks is most useful to me when I’m on another machine via SSH.

[00:53:06] Christina: Right, right. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. No, I was just, I was just curious. Yeah. I was good to have.

[00:53:12] Brett: on.

[00:53:13] Oh, Windows

[00:53:13] Christina: Well, no, cause that was on.

[00:53:14] our list, you know, I love I term. Um, and I’m on like, um, I’m really close with the windows terminal team. And like that was one of their inspirations for windows terminal,

[00:53:22] Brett: I should hope so.

[00:53:23] Christina: well, I mean, but I mean, I think that’s like awesome that it was, cause that was like a pretty skunkworks project.

[00:53:28] That’s now built into windows, like proper, like it’s it’s now with windows 11, like it’s built in

[00:53:33] Brett: Oh, is it really?

[00:53:34] Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:34] Brett: That’s cool.

[00:53:35] Christina: Um, and, um, uh, uh, so it was the, when it was packaged manager, um, which is basically Homebrew, um, for, uh, for windows, um, and.

[00:53:47] Brett: know that, man, maybe I got to give windows another shot.

[00:53:51] Christina: I mean, I’m not saying like, there are things that would annoy you, but I think that there are a lot of things, especially with, with, with WSL too. And, and, uh, when it was terminal [00:54:00] and when get, which is the windows package manager, also, you would love power toys, which is open source. It’s run by Microsoft, but like community contributes to it, but it’s like they, uh, created, they recreated, uh, uh, basically, um, like a alpha.

[00:54:12] Um, so that like you can do, um, like when key space, um, or, or, uh, Yeah.

[00:54:18] exactly. To search stuff. That was actually, I helped with that a little bit, at least with the guy who’s the PM on that I like gave him some feedback. There were some other like, um, like tiling manager, extras and stuff. So this is like a, uh, open source project.

[00:54:32] That’s like adding power user features to windows and it’s all developed in the open. It’s pretty, bad-ass, there’s a lot of like stuff that they’re doing with. I think you would like, and I, I would, I would like you to play with, at some point, I don’t like, like you, like, you’re never like me. You’re never gonna like, be like somebody who’s gonna be swayed, like full time away.

[00:54:50] But I have to say like, it’s fun to see.

[00:54:52] Brett: I could be intrigued by,

[00:54:54] Christina: But it’s, it’s nice to see what’s happening other places. And it certainly makes, it makes me using windows like a lot [00:55:00] better. And since gaming on windows is so much better and like, I dunno, I just like playing with other operating systems. I like playing with Lennox, sisters too.

[00:55:07] It’s just fun. But, um, it’s just, it’s funny because in some ways I feel like windows is going in the direction of trying to be more like what Mac west used to. Whereas maca west is going in the direction, you know, like iOS, which for people like you and I isn’t always the best thing.

[00:55:25] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, I’ll give it a shot. I it’s, I haven’t, I haven’t touched last time I loaded up windows was, I guess I loaded windows 10.

[00:55:38] Christina: Yeah. But there were a number of different iterations with windows 10.

[00:55:40] like when it was 11, just came out and it’s, It’s good. But some of the stuff that’s like built in, like I said, Straight out of the box, WSL, um, is, uh, makes it easier to enable windows terminal out of the box. Like the windows package manager out of the

[00:55:52] Brett: I could, I have parallels. I could load up. I could load it up in parallel.

[00:55:56] Christina: yeah. You can load them of parallels. If you, if you want to register it, then you need to pay for a [00:56:00] license, but you, but you might have a friend who can get you a discount.

[00:56:04] Brett: I wonder where I would find a friend like

[00:56:06] Christina: I’m just saying, you know, might be able to get, might be able to get you a license for $40. All I’m saying. Um, uh, and if you have a windows 10 license or when it was seven or eight licensed, that.

[00:56:16] can actually be used with windows 11, but,

[00:56:18] Brett: I haven’t had a legit windows license since windows 95 and then 90. What was

[00:56:23] Christina: probably, yeah, probably 98 I was going to say I was going to say we all yet, although we did all share that one XP?

[00:56:29] um, uh, key that

[00:56:31] Brett: The one, the one key.

[00:56:34] Christina: Well, no, it was, it was like, it was like a pre-release version. I’ll never forget because I was a freshman year in college and, um, Everybody’s computers came pre-loaded with windows, Emmy on it.

[00:56:44] And then like right after college started was when like the XP gold master dropped. And so people would get the free upgrade, but it would take like months and like Disney was fucking terrible. So I had a copy that somebody had downloaded with that, like QI pro. Part of the reason, part of how I [00:57:00] made friends, like freshman years I’d go around with the dorms and a, I would install people’s network cards because people didn’t realize they needed like a nit card, you know, for their, uh, computer.

[00:57:09] And they have like a modem and I’m like, no, you need a network card. And they’re like, how do I open This Hi, I’m, I’m, I’m new in the dorms. Like I’m, I’m, you know, your neighbor. Um, and then I also install like windows XP on people’s computers. So I made friends like with everybody, like in that building, uh, August of 2001.

[00:57:33] Um, so yeah, but everybody shared

[00:57:36] Brett: was a journey.

[00:57:38] Christina: was a journey.

[00:57:39] Brett: Man let’s recap. We got, we got the Ted lasso, we got the Facebook, we got a couple of sponsors in

[00:57:47] Christina: We got some great sponsors and we talked about some great Mac apps,

[00:57:50] Brett: indie Mac apps. Uh, and then like w w w esoteric like Unix editors. And then we got, we got all the way to [00:58:00] windows.

[00:58:01] Christina: I know shit,

[00:58:02] Brett: you and me got to window.

[00:58:04] Christina: we got to windows honestly, and like kind of good conversation about it. Like honestly, we’re like, this is some good shit, man. Like This is, a very classic, very good Overtired.

[00:58:13] Brett: This is, this is the epitome. Like you can’t plan a show like this.

[00:58:19] Christina: No, which, which is funny. Cause we had like our list, but like this is like such like a classic show of us, you know?

[00:58:25] Brett: Um, Oh, I should mention, I think, I think the, uh, listener survey is still, I still, you can still add entries to it with comments and criticisms and, uh, demographic information that will help us bring you. Better sponsors and make the show better. So check the show notes, follow the link, take a, take five minutes and let us know, uh, who you are and it can be anonymous, but let us know, uh, who you are in a demographic sense and what you like about the [00:59:00] show, what you don’t like.

[00:59:01] And, uh, and w we will take your feedback very seriously. And, uh, and, and we love you all.

[00:59:08] Christina: We love you.

[00:59:10] Brett: All right. Well, Christina,

[00:59:13] Christina: get some sleep bread.