Brett

[00:00:00]Brett: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Brett Terpstra, and we’re going to get the, uh, the intro in the proper order this week. So here it goes. Welcome to overtired. I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here with Christina Warren. How’s it going, Christina?

[00:00:12] Christina: [00:00:12] pretty good, Brett, pretty good. Uh, w this is like classic overtired style, and that we are doing this at the crack ass of Dawn my time. So we’re both going to be a little bit tired. Um, how are you?

[00:00:26] Brett: [00:00:26] I haven’t slept all week. So yeah, I am fully over right now. I, we had to, we had to do a really sad thing this week. I’m not talking like really sad. I’m talking like tragic.

[00:00:40] Christina: [00:00:40] yeah, no. I saw your Facebook post and like it broke my heart. And so I think we should just skip all the niceties and just go straight into, uh, into Brett’s mental health

[00:00:50] Brett: [00:00:50] Yeah, right. So yeah. Speaking of mental health, uh, I’ll mention our two sponsors this week are, uh, better help, [00:01:00] uh, which is online counseling and, uh, ritual vitamins, which are great for all kinds of health stuff. So. That’s a good lead in, I guess, to the fact that, uh, we had a kitten born on, uh, born on Valentine’s day.

[00:01:18] And, uh, and we got him, uh, after about eight weeks and, uh, we named him Finnegan and he w his nickname was loved pig because he would just crawl up on your shoulder and purse so loud that you couldn’t hear anything. And he just, he was so good. And then he got FIP, which is, uh, it’s caused by a Corona virus and it, uh, causes fluid buildup and, uh, it it’s terminal.

[00:01:51] And we had to put him down last week, uh, at the age of like nine months. And it was the saddest thing I’ve ever [00:02:00] done. I’ve put plenty of animals to sleep over the years. But this was the hardest.

[00:02:07]Christina: [00:02:07] Uh, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. I don’t even like losing pets is the hardest anyway, but yeah, no. And I saw your Facebook posts. I was just like, my heart went out to you and L because. I can’t even imagine, you know, something to who, it seemed like you really connected with this, with this kitten and you know, for it to be so little.

[00:02:27] And, uh, I’m so sorry.

[00:02:29] Brett: [00:02:29] Yeah. And it was the first pet that Ella and I got together. Uh, all, all of our other pets came into the relationship. And, uh, and we’re very attached to one or the other of us and Finnegan was kind of both of ours after he got sick, he became, uh, a momma’s boy. He always wanted to be an L’s lap, which was fine.

[00:02:50] I think I’m better at petting animals than she is, but she’s the, uh, she’s the chill nurturing one. Uh, and I think he, [00:03:00] he just wanted to curl up in her lap while she knit and just his breathing got labored over time. and we didn’t want him to slowly suffocate. So

[00:03:10] Christina: [00:03:10] no. You wanted to do the humane thing. Uh, is there like, is there anything preventative that, like, I know some feline diseases, like they have vaccines and stuff. Is there

[00:03:21] Brett: [00:03:21] I don’t think there is the, like they say 80 to 90% of all cats get exposed to this Corona virus. Uh, and only about one in 5,000 actually develop FIP from it. So, uh, to really your cat’s immune system will determine whether or not this happens. And I’ve talked to him since, cause I posted about this.

[00:03:45] Um, and since posting, I’ve heard from a few people, who’ve had the same thing happen and it’s just kind of a risk you take. Um, and I don’t think it matters where your cat comes from, whether it’s a shelter or a breeder or. [00:04:00] Whatever, however you get your cat, like I’ve adopted cats that I found in gutters and they haven’t had the kind of health problems that we saw.

[00:04:10] So yeah, I’ve been, I lost sleep before, like the thought of having to do it, uh, made me like ill,

[00:04:20] Christina: [00:04:20] yeah.

[00:04:21] Brett: [00:04:21] to my stomach. Uh, so I lost sleep for a couple of nights before we had to put him down. And then the grief like kept me awake. I would think like, all I’d want to do would be to sleep, but I just couldn’t.

[00:04:36] I just had like waking dreams about the whole situation and it was,

[00:04:41] Christina: [00:04:41] Hmm.

[00:04:42]Brett: [00:04:42] there’s a book called tear soup that Mike Rose sent to me, uh, when I lost my dog, Emma, And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this book, but it’s about it. It’s this kind of metaphorical soup that this old woman makes after suffering [00:05:00] a major loss and she fills it with tears and memories.

[00:05:04] And it is the ultimate book for people who are grieving about anything, because it talks about how, like, no one can go through this with you. And a lot of people will. Try to be sympathetic. And then a lot of people won’t know how to deal with someone who is grieving and it kind of covers all of these bases that you’re going to go through. I highly recommend it. I’m going to add it to the show notes because it’s, it was the best thing that, uh, anyone offered me through the whole grieving process.

[00:05:41] Christina: [00:05:41] No, I that’s, that’s really good to know about that. I’m, I’m, I’m one of those people who like, I can be there for people that I can talk to that I can listen, but I, I, you know, I struggle because like my instinct is to want to try to be helpful and there’s nothing helpful you can really do [00:06:00] except maybe do what micros did, which has offered really good books.

[00:06:03] Um, My mom though. It’s like, you know, one of the things that she did for years and years and years was she would run grief groups, you know, for, for kids, you know, and she was a school counselor, a school psychologist. And so, uh, she’s actually like really good at that. Um, and you know, in that case, you know, you’re talking about like elementary school kids, who’ve lost a sibling or a parent, or, you know, maybe, maybe like a close new grandparent or something.

[00:06:31] Um, but. Yeah. It’s it’s you do, you always like struggle with that thing. So I thank you for mentioning that book and I’m, I’m just so sorry this happened. How has L doing? I bet.

[00:06:46] Brett: [00:06:46] She, she, she shows on the outside more, um, the grief. And I’ve learned through this, that the best thing you can say too, and I can’t say this is true for everyone, but the [00:07:00] best thing you could say to either of us is just to say that sucks. Like you can say, you’re sorry, you can offer your own personal stories, but all we really need to hear is that that fucking

[00:07:10] Christina: [00:07:10] this is absolutely no. And it does, it does fucking suck. Like it’s yeah, it’s shitty.

[00:07:17] Brett: [00:07:17] I was in. When I was in middle school, both of my grandfathers died on the exact same day. Uh, and the same week my dog died they stuck me in a grief group that I did not take well to. Like I just, I needed to deal with that on my own. And to be honest, I started drinking around that time

[00:07:38] Christina: [00:07:38] Right.

[00:07:38] Brett: [00:07:38] really deal with it until I was in my twenties.

[00:07:42] And then like, I dealt with that and like my friends who had died during my junkie years and it all kind of crashed in at once, but yeah, I did grief groups. Weren’t great for me.

[00:07:52]Christina: [00:07:52] Yeah, no, I mean, they have to be the right person to like, I think that, that they’re not going to work for everybody. And I mean, it’s kind of the same thing with. [00:08:00] Any sort of therapy or

[00:08:01] Brett: [00:08:01] Oh, for

[00:08:02] Christina: [00:08:02] you need to be, you need to be in the right mindset to do it and be open to it. Not everybody is going to be.

[00:08:07] And then some people are much more tuned to it than others. Like, like my mom, like is really fucking good at that. Um, but, but some people, especially, uh, I don’t mean to be disparaging of our public school systems or a private school systems, to be honest, actually I would, I would argue that our private school systems are probably worse.

[00:08:26] With this regard, but you know, a lot of people who do that sort of counseling stuff at that level, usually aren’t, they’re not always the best. I’m just going to say it there. They’re not always the best, so I can see why, especially at that age for you being in middle school, that that would be like, you’d be like, yeah.

[00:08:45] Brett: [00:08:45] Yeah,

[00:08:46] Christina: [00:08:46] not, I’m not able to deal with this.

[00:08:47] Brett: [00:08:47] like I was, I was the major, uh, ingredient there. Like I just was

[00:08:53] Christina: [00:08:53] Oh, completely.

[00:08:54] Brett: [00:08:54] to any of that.

[00:08:55] Christina: [00:08:55] Right, right. I mean, that’s the thing. You could have the perfect person then they would still not, [00:09:00] they would still not be able to do anything because you wouldn’t be open to it, but there can be people who, you know, would maybe recognize and be like, Hey, I see that this isn’t going to be productive if you need somebody I’m here, but otherwise we’re, we’re going to, you know, we’re not going to force you to, to go to this or, or whatever,

[00:09:18]Brett: [00:09:18] I feel like there’s never going to be a better segue into our better help sponsorship than

[00:09:25] Christina: [00:09:25] I agree. I agree. Actually, I was just thinking that.

[00:09:28] Brett: [00:09:28] Um, and normally I would say this for a little further into the episode, but this is extremely, uh, apropos. So. Um, the question you have to ask yourself is what’s getting in the way of your happiness. And for me personally, it’s a combination right now of grief, uh, being bipolar and having ADHD.

[00:09:48] Uh, but I think a lot of people have something that prevents them from achieving their goals. So. There’s better help, better help is professional therapy available remotely. You fill out a [00:10:00] detailed questionnaire and they match you with a professional therapist. That’s right for you licensed in this state where you live, and then you connect in a safe and private online environment, whatever way works for you.

[00:10:11] Whether it’s live calls, video calls, or just text messages. Uh, once you filled out your questionnaire, you can start communicating with your counselor and under 24 hours. And this isn’t self-help. This is professional counseling. Uh, I see a psychiatrist who takes care of my medication prescription needs, but honestly, I don’t, I don’t have access to great therapy where I live a pretty limited selection.

[00:10:37] And that’s why I’m excited about this. I just filled out the questionnaire yesterday and got matched in a couple of hours. So I’ll be starting my first session today. And I’m feeling really good about it. Uh, really looking forward to. Some grief counseling, um, but better help is more affordable than traditional counseling and financial aid is [00:11:00] available in many areas.

[00:11:01] Um, there are counselors who specialize in ADHD and bipolar as well as depression, stress, anger, LGBT specific matters, grief, sleeping trauma. Just about any specific need that you have, um, including grief. Grief that’s uh, yeah, that, that, that, that is that’s our segue, but, uh, anything you share is completely confidential and I want you, our listeners to start living a happier life today.

[00:11:34] So as a listener or you’ll get 10% off your first month by visiting our sponsor@betterhelp.com slash overtired. Join over 1 billion people who have taken charge of their mental health. Again, that’s better help. H E L p.com/over tired. Have you ever done online counseling?

[00:11:56]Christina: [00:11:56] I haven’t, but, uh, I liked that it [00:12:00] exists. Um, although like I’ve never done online. My shrink though is who’s also my psychiatrist. Like I don’t, I haven’t lived in the same state that he’s in, in a decade. So I do it over the phone. So it’s similar.

[00:12:14] Brett: [00:12:14] Yeah, and, and better help offers, uh, phone-based counseling sessions. So yeah, pretty much exactly the same.

[00:12:22] Christina: [00:12:22] Yeah, no. And I have to say, uh, finding somebody is oftentimes the, I think for a lot of people, the most challenging part to even figure out like, if this would be useful to you or not. And so I’m glad that things like this exist to make things more accessible, you

[00:12:37] Brett: [00:12:37] Yeah, which reminds me the read is over, but I will mention that it’s super easy to switch counselors. If you have any problem with the one they match you with, it’s like you can immediately switch to someone else with no hassle at all.

[00:12:51]Christina: [00:12:51] That’s really

[00:12:52] Brett: [00:12:52] Yeah. That is cause, cause finding a therapist that like you see in person and then switching [00:13:00] therapists is a

[00:13:01] Christina: [00:13:01] no it is. And, um, Yeah. So this is one of the, the times where I think it’s more advantageous when you can just kind of do things remotely, so to speak. Um, well, yeah, well, I look forward to seeing how that works for you, but, but also like, I, I want you to be able to talk to someone and talk about your grief, because this is, this is shitty and I’m really

[00:13:25] Brett: [00:13:25] Someone who’s ready to deal with it because truly a lot of people. Myself included. I don’t deal well with other people’s grief. Like I feel for them, I’m not, um, I like I’m, I’m not callous. Like, I, I feel for you, but I don’t know how to relate to you when you’re grieving. And I get that people, people need, I need someone to talk to that isn’t, uh, like my friends who might not know how to deal with me, so

[00:13:57] Christina: [00:13:57] Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, exactly. That’s, that’s sort of trying to say [00:14:00] like about my mom, like my mom is like, I think that’s one of the reasons why she went into doing what she did and she switched careers. Cause she was. So good at that. I’m, I’m not like I think of myself as an empathetic person and I’m usually good at talking to people about a lot of stuff, but there are certain things, grief being one of them where, I mean, sometimes all you can do is hold a person and just tell them you love them.

[00:14:23] And you know that it sucks and, and listen, and maybe that’s what you need to do. But I guess

[00:14:29] Brett: [00:14:29] and that’s like Ella and I like we’re, we’re both going through this together, but you have to grieve on your own.

[00:14:38] Christina: [00:14:38] exactly.

[00:14:38] Brett: [00:14:38] the most we can really do is commiserate and hold each other. But we can’t. Like just because I’m not crying today. Doesn’t mean she can’t and like it, we have to give each other the space to kind of do that on our own.

[00:14:57] Christina: [00:14:57] Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, that’s the thing too. I think that [00:15:00] compounds things is, is when you go through a shared loss, right? Like it, it makes it what, whether it’s a pet or a person or even something, um, like a job, right. Or, uh, you know, any sort of, kind of like, like shared grief moment, like that, that adds another.

[00:15:20] Level of just mess to it. And so I feel for both of you, and I’m glad that you two have each other, but I also like this, this is just really shitty and I wish that I could take the pain away and, you know, wave a magic wand for you.

[00:15:35]Brett: [00:15:35] Yeah, me too. So should we turn this into a tech show?

[00:15:40] Christina: [00:15:40] Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so I guess, I guess that our, our, our, our, our Taylor Swift and, and depression, uh, pod, uh, she’d go into our tech show a real quick segue on the Taylor Swift front. Have you seen the, the folklore documentary live concert?

[00:15:55] Brett: [00:15:55] It’s going to say there’s a double, uh, uh, I can’t remember what [00:16:00] they called it, but there’s a double record album available now for folklore, but no, I

[00:16:05] Christina: [00:16:05] Yeah, yeah,

[00:16:06] Brett: [00:16:06] what’d you say

[00:16:07] Christina: [00:16:07] yeah, yeah. So, so what she did is it’s like a documentary thing, and this is why they’ve got the double album where they went to long pond studios, which I guess is like Aaron Dressner, who’s the he’s from the national. And he was the producer for most of the record. And they went to his, um, like he has like a farm in upstate New York and she and Jack Antonov and, um, uh, who’s one of her long time collaborators and, and Aaron Dresner all got together and they played the entire record.

[00:16:38] And in, in the studio and then, um, talked about each track and for the track that has a bone of air, he was at his studio in, um, Wisconsin. And so, you know, like he came in like remotely, but. Uh, it’s pretty cool. Actually, a you get to hear her thought process about the songs, but the [00:17:00] recordings themselves are actually, it’s really interesting to hear kind of a stripped down like the album is already stripped down, but to then here, uh, and even more stripped down, you know, kind of like live performance, you know, mix of the stuff, uh, as well as seeing how, you know, they play it and, and, you know, do those things actually really highly recommended.

[00:17:21] A-plus.

[00:17:22] Brett: [00:17:22] I, I, I will admit that like a, like a real asshole, I have not even watched that miss Americano or whatever it is, you know?

[00:17:31] Christina: [00:17:31] I know what you need to, you need to watch the miss Americana. No, she, this is my favorite thing about her. She knows how to get paid because she has, she had the Netflix thing. She got, she was on Apple and now she’s on to city. Plus I think she even had an Amazon special at one point. Like they, uh,

[00:17:49] Brett: [00:17:49] where’s the folklore docket.

[00:17:51]Christina: [00:17:51] Uh, I assume that what they’re doing and as they should is that they’re, that her people are like basically, you know, [00:18:00] doing a bidding for, and using the fact that all these services will pay big money for Taylor Swift. But, uh, but what I do appreciate at least is that even though the, the documentary is on, uh, and the live thing is, is on Disney plus the, um, Album like that the recordings themselves are on YouTube and Spotify and Apple music and all that stuff.

[00:18:20] So you can like listen to the music anywhere, but if you want to watch the performances and stuff, that’s on Disney plus.

[00:18:28] Brett: [00:18:28] Cool. Hey, we got Taylor Swift in for like the first time in probably three weeks.

[00:18:34] Christina: [00:18:34] I know, I know I was, I was feeling bad that we hadn’t touched on her in a while, but, uh, yeah. Um,

[00:18:42] Brett: [00:18:42] my friend, Frank Frank Petri sent me a link to the double album set. It was, it was good through and through, and I hadn’t followed up on it yet, but hi,

[00:18:54] Christina: [00:18:54] Nice. Hi Frank. Yeah, appreciate that. I, uh, it was actually funny [00:19:00] because somebody on Twitter last week asked me, they were like, I started listening to the album. I really like it. Do you have any other recommendations for songs? You know, like. You know of hers or whatever that are in this vein. And so I wound up, uh, taking an hour out of my Workday, uh, and making a folklore mood mix, which, you know, um, was like all on the same aesthetic of the album.

[00:19:22] Some of it was her tracks, but some of it was like from other artists and stuff. And I have to say really, really good fall winter kind of gloomy, like playlist. Like I haven’t made like. A good playlist in a while. I’ll, uh, if people want, I’ll have the links in the show notes for, uh, Apple music and for Spotify.

[00:19:41] But, uh, I was actually really pleased with it. I was like, actually, I kind of nailed this. This is good.

[00:19:46] Brett: [00:19:46] Manually make it first Spotify and Apple music.

[00:19:50] Christina: [00:19:50] I did.

[00:19:51] Brett: [00:19:51] Okay. Cause there are services. That’ll

[00:19:53] Christina: [00:19:53] There are

[00:19:54] Brett: [00:19:54] but they keep breaking like every time a good one comes out, it eventually breaks.

[00:19:59] Christina: [00:19:59] exactly. And [00:20:00] Spotify, they re they, they. Ended up reversing course on this, but they actually banned some of the apps that were doing those things from use theory, API, and then they came out.

[00:20:11]Because playlisting is now, I guess what they see as their secret sauce. And so I do understand the point where they’re like, Hey, we don’t want people to take RapCaviar and convert that into something they can listen to on another like service, even though it’s a commodity. Right. And even though it’s XML files, right?

[00:20:29] Like we all know what this is, but, um, I don’t know the, the backlash they reneged, but, um, It was easier for me to be totally honest, to just recreate it. I just had like my iPad, cause also the, the, the reality was it was like, uh, it was like the day before Thanksgiving and I didn’t want to grab my laptop and bother.

[00:20:51] So I just had like my iPhone in one hand and like my iPad on the other. And I just like, you know, manually did it. It was like 40 [00:21:00] songs. So, you know,

[00:21:01] Brett: [00:21:01] It’s a long playlist.

[00:21:03] Christina: [00:21:03] I know, I know, but I kept like finding it’s a good playlist. Uh, it’s very much in the mood. It’s, we’ll, we’ll have links to that, but, um,

[00:21:10] Brett: [00:21:10] it out too.

[00:21:11] Christina: [00:21:11] okay. So we’ve got Taylor Swift covered.

[00:21:13] Now we are also, you know, a Mac fandom, uh, podcast. Uh, let’s talk about some, uh, some Mac news, uh, AWS, uh, has a, you see two instances running back on now?

[00:21:26] Brett: [00:21:26] Yeah, which, uh, uh, personally I think that’s great. Like, especially if I can, uh, load up any, uh, version of the S and allow for, for anyone who doesn’t know what this means, it basically means you can spin up a cloud computer, uh, on a Mac. So, uh, this has always been problematic because of the way Apple hardware is tied so closely to Apple software.

[00:21:52] If you wanted to develop for a Mac, you kind of had to have a Mac. So you could, you could use ECE two for everything, [00:22:00] except for developing a Mac. So now they’ve added some Intel max that they, they say they’re going to update to soon. Um, but yeah, if I can say test on three different versions of the operating system, that would be way better than, than having multiple test machines with multiple partitions.

[00:22:22] And, uh, yeah, I would dig it.

[00:22:26] Christina: [00:22:26] yeah. Yeah. The, there are some caveats and there are some things that, that make me kind of laugh and they do make me question, I think, how useful this will be. I think that for your build testing stuff, stuff like, uh, Azure pipelines, um, there is some other CIC services. Um, app center is when I know that we also do at Microsoft get hub.

[00:22:45] Has. They’re they’re build things. There’s some other, um, uh, like, uh, services that have, uh, Macko S runners, which basically they’re all doing the same thing where they’re running, you know, the bills, um, stuff on, you know, Mac minis. Um, the, the [00:23:00] issue with it is that because of how Apple licenses, this stuff, uh, the minimum amount of time that you have for like, um, Compute, you have to reserve as 24 hours.

[00:23:12] So you have to pay for at least 24 hours. The issue is, is that it’s like a dollar an hour. And, and so if you do the math on that, that $750 a month, if you’re running 30 days, all, all uptime, uh,

[00:23:28] Brett: [00:23:28] buy, you could buy your own Mac mini.

[00:23:30] Christina: [00:23:30] You absolutely. Could you absolutely could. Um, if you pay three years in advance, uh, Corey Quinn, um, who’s a friend of mine and, and he, um, is, uh, uh, like an AWS, uh, billing expert.

[00:23:44] He like went through all the math on this. If you pay three years in advance, they will give you a discount and it’s only $450 a month. I’m still rolling on month. I’m still kind of like, like, you know, choking, uh, I think in that case, like, If you were [00:24:00] a big enterprise and you’re somebody who’s doing tons of build minutes all the time, because the build minutes, this is where your other services who do that do add up and get pretty expensive.

[00:24:09] And if you don’t want to manage, um, you know, a bunch of Macs, which a lot of people don’t want to do. Completely, if you don’t want to manage that. And also if you need certain security things, you know, uh, that Amazon is, is certified for, I think that that’s who this is targeted as unfortunately, at least right now and into this could change for people like you and I.

[00:24:31] Ironically, what this has done is, is just made MacStadium, who I know you’ve used for years and years. It really just kind of makes their point for them. Um, although it doesn’t, it doesn’t like, it really does make their point for them, for people like you. And I, because it just says, Hey, um, either co-locating or, you know, straight up paying, um, you know, $50 a month, you know, or $150 a month for a Mac mini from them is the way to go.

[00:24:57] That said they have their Kubernetes. [00:25:00] Uh, uh, like, uh, you know, kind of cloud private cloud thing called Orca that starts at 1500 a month. So, um, but again, when we’re talking about people who are not uni, like I, this is, I think that when I look at this offering, I’m excited that it exists, but I also look at it.

[00:25:18] I’m like at first I was really excited and then I looked at the details. I was like, Oh shit, this is for Netflix. Right? Like genuinely,

[00:25:25] Brett: [00:25:25] you’ve just made this a

[00:25:26] Christina: [00:25:26] is for Netflix. I’m sorry, I didn’t, I didn’t mean to, but like I was, I was glad we were going to talk about this. No good. But this, this launched last night yesterday and I was super excited and I started looking into it and then I started doing the numbers and talking to Corey and, and, um, uh, my friend, Brad Fitzpatrick, uh, you know, played it out and I was just like, God damn it.

[00:25:46] Like, this is not what I wanted, but. The upside is, uh, a, the reason it’s not what we want is completely 100% Apple’s fault. So that’s good for us to know. We can be mad at them cause they’re the ones who set the terms with their [00:26:00] licensed and how that stuff works. But, um, if there’s demand for this stuff, and I think this is where it gets interesting with the M one stuff.

[00:26:08] If there was demand for this stuff, I see both. Amazon, you know, or other clouds potentially, you know, being willing to lower the price and doing stuff like that. Or, and, and potentially if Apple related see a market for this, there’s no reason why they wouldn’t offer something like this for developers themselves.

[00:26:29] In fact, it’s, it’s always seemed kind of weird to me that they haven’t offered. This, like, since they’re not the services company, this would be a really easy kind of value add for them to say on top of their, you know, your developer account. If you pay, you know, a certain amount of money, you get a certain number of build minutes or whatever, and you can access this number of configurations and do these, you know, builds and tests like.

[00:26:53] It makes sense. So I don’t know. I, at the very least, I’m glad that they’re doing it. And the whole reason they were able to do this is because [00:27:00] Apple finally, finally, finally with, with big Sur, like set out rules and, and set out like guidelines for how people can. Use and kind of resell like max in the data center.

[00:27:11] And because before that has been sort of a gray area where you’ve had the Mac stadiums of the world doing it, but they’ve kind of been operating in a place where we’re like, they’re like, well, we don’t exactly know like what we are and aren’t allowed to do accept that the one rule Apple’s had, which is frustrating is that they’re like, Under no circumstances.

[00:27:30] Can you slice these things up and sell them and smaller instances it’s, it’s a all or nothing play, but I do hope that at some point they are willing to, um, come down on the, the residency requirement and or tenancy requirement. Sorry. Uh, and it’d be like, Hey, your tenant doesn’t need to be 24 hours long because that’s what kills it.

[00:27:52] Cause I think for a lot of people, if you could pay by the hour, that would, that would be like a game

[00:27:57] Brett: [00:27:57] Yeah. That’s the thing I think of [00:28:00] AWS as pretty dirt, cheap computing. Uh, so this kind of requirement, definitely, uh, nix is any cost savings you would have, like, honestly, like it just sounds like I’d be better off buying extra Mac minis.

[00:28:18] Christina: [00:28:18] Yeah. You would, you would, um, if you have the wherewithal to be able to manage it and do that stuff yourself, you absolutely would,

[00:28:24] Brett: [00:28:24] I have two on my shelf right now, 2012 Mac minis, but they still work.

[00:28:29] Christina: [00:28:29] Hey, as long as they still work. Right. But, um,

[00:28:32] Brett: [00:28:32] of Ram in each one. They do. All right.

[00:28:35] Christina: [00:28:35] Yeah, no. I mean, honestly though, those are, those are good machines. Um, it was funny, uh, uh, Andy and Arco last night on Twitter, like he was posting a picture. He was like, yes, I too, him, uh, you know, one of those power users you see in your threads of grading, his 2012 Mac mini with 16 gigs of Ram, I was like, I was like, yes, yes.

[00:28:55] I love this Andy. So.

[00:28:57] Brett: [00:28:57] to do that. Now you can buy the, [00:29:00] the, the new, the Ram modules for like 30 bucks. So.

[00:29:04]Christina: [00:29:04] Yeah, this was just good. Yeah. So, sorry to be a bummer on the, on the AWS Mac front, but I know, but I do actually think that it’s good that we see it, and I’m hoping that, um, like we, that. This will maybe open up some other opportunities. I don’t know. We’ll see. I’m just excited to see them do. And I have to give, even though like, and we don’t really see disclosures on this podcast because people know, but I clearly work for a direct competitor of AWS.

[00:29:35] Uh, but I have absolutely no problem, like game respects game. And, and I I’m excited like as a user and a person who, um, Knows and cares way more about cloud computing than I ever thought I would. Uh, like didn’t ever think that would be my life. I’m like, actually I’m pretty, I’m pretty excited to see that this is something that, um, is at least an option.

[00:29:58] Cause I think that it’s really [00:30:00] good. Um, on that segue, let’s talk about some, like some big syrups that you love.

[00:30:06] Brett: [00:30:06] um, yeah, so. Anyone who any Mac power user, whether self-proclaimed, or otherwise has probably heard of bartender. Um, if you run enough utility apps on your Mac, your menu bar gets like completely overcrowded and bartender helps like, um, hide.

[00:30:29] Christina: [00:30:29] make it hide up, make it

[00:30:31] Brett: [00:30:31] Yeah. So you have, you get like two, two menu bars, basically one for your, the stuff you actually need in your menu bar, and one for overflow.

[00:30:41] And it can do cool things like, uh, in the CA like Dropbox, anytime an icon updates, uh, with like a Badger or whatever, you can have it display temporarily and then disappear again. Um, but for a while there on, on Catalina, And maybe even back [00:31:00] to what was before Catalina, Mojave. I think it started with Mojave.

[00:31:05] Um, uh, it got really slow, like switching between the menu bars took like three, four seconds and it was, it was annoying. Um, if not more, but then bartender four came out and I’ve only used it on big Sur. I don’t know how it runs on Catalina, but. It is super fast. Uh, it can do, it can be the thing where it replaces what’s in the menu bar or expands in the menu bar, or it can have the separate, like floating bar underneath it with the overflow stuff.

[00:31:38] And it is super fast and super easy to configure. And I am, um, I’m blown away that an app that I was so in love with, to begin with has gotten so much better.

[00:31:50]Christina: [00:31:50] I love that. I love that. And I haven’t used big Sur yet because I am afraid. But, um, this is the sort of [00:32:00] stuff that I hear about that like would make me want to make the upgrade. So, because I love bartender, like you I’ve been using it for. God, I don’t even know how many years. Um, but, uh, I love it.

[00:32:11] Actually. It’s funny, you mentioned a bartender because it reminds me in some ways, did you hear the news about growl? So they have officially retired. The growl project growl is

[00:32:21] Brett: [00:32:21] notifications completely replaced it.

[00:32:24] Christina: [00:32:24] come completely did. Right. But, um, 17 years, hell of a run. Um, and, and they’ve encouraged people, you know, like it’ll continue to run, but like for they’re, they’re not updating it for big stir.

[00:32:35] And, and honestly, it hasn’t even, I haven’t even been able to get it to reliably install and a couple of years, to be honest, I used to use it for everything. I used to script custom stuff with it. Um, but most apps have, have dropped support for it. And I’ve just used notification center, which makes sense.

[00:32:51] But it reminds me of bartender in the sense that like, No bartender is also one of those like really nice Mac utilities [00:33:00] that just gets out of your way and makes the experience better. And, um, just shout out to the, to the bar, to the ground, team, us, to the bartender dev for sure, but also shout out to the grounds team, because that was one of those apps that when I became, you know, like a full-time Mac user was one of those things that made me fall in love with the Mac.

[00:33:19] Like it was. That that, and ironically is some of the same members all worked on like, you know, ADM and, and, um, uh, Parian and growl. And I think back about that kind of time in the max, like life cycle, and I’m like, yeah, This was like peak good. Like part of it might be nostalgic, but I also think that it’s also like, genuinely like those like, like peak Mack era of, you know, maca West stuff.

[00:33:49] Uh, Baca was 10 anyway, um, of, of development. So,

[00:33:53] Brett: [00:33:53] I’ll admit

[00:33:54] Christina: [00:33:54] but yeah,

[00:33:55] Brett: [00:33:55] use ADM.

[00:33:56]Christina: [00:33:56] I would, if I had any contacts

[00:33:59] Brett: [00:33:59] Yeah, I [00:34:00] use it.

[00:34:00] Christina: [00:34:00] XMPP,

[00:34:01] Brett: [00:34:01] I use it for IRC. Um, I haven’t run colloquy or colloquy colloquy

[00:34:07] Christina: [00:34:07] Yeah, yeah. I, for years, yeah, I have, I haven’t either. I’ve used textile, uh, best the one I’ve used for many

[00:34:15] Brett: [00:34:15] Yeah. Never got into the text-based IRC clients and I don’t know why, because it makes perfect sense.

[00:34:21]Christina: [00:34:21] Well, the one that I it’s called textual, sorry. Yeah, no, sorry. The one I was talking about, it’s called textual and it’s a really good gooey and it’s it’s. Uh, it’s actually really pretty. It’s been in the Mac app store for forever. And that’s the one that I’ve used is it it’s called textual. And that.

[00:34:37] Brett: [00:34:37] was a text-based one.

[00:34:39] Christina: [00:34:39] Um, no, I mean, it is text-based in the sense that like it’s, you know, right, right, exactly.

[00:34:44] But no, but a bit, it’s got a really nice looking gooey and, um, and they continue to, you know, to update it. It has dark mode support and you know, all that kind of stuff. It’s, it’s, it’s actually really nice. I have to, I give them credit for that, um, uh, that they, they, they are [00:35:00] continuing to, um, develop it and updated and stuff, which is really nice.

[00:35:05] Um, But, yeah. I’m if I used IRC more, I could see myself still using ADM. I don’t know. I miss ADM sometimes though, like it was just, I loved the themes. I loved having that back when chat was all open standards, instead of being federated into all these different things, which. Is the shitty part. If I can be totally honest about the modern world we live in is that we literally did have interoperable chat standards.

[00:35:32] Cause nothing is new or unique about the way we chat now. Nothing like it, like, like we’ve added nothing to the ability of this, except that you can add files more easily. Right. And that you can maybe that’s basically it. Right? Cause there’s nothing like. Demonstrably different or new about teams or Slack or, you know, uh, matter most or, or, or discord or whatever.

[00:35:56] Um, then our other solutions like discord, at [00:36:00] least ads, voice chat, but like everything else is the same. All that we’ve done is we’ve replaced our instant messaging stuff, you know, uh, or campfire. Right. Which we, we still up, all we’ve done is we’ve replaced. We’ve replaced, you know, that’s who we used to have interoperable standards with.

[00:36:15] So you can at least have. You know, an Omni client with just a bunch of electron apps where you have to run like four instances of, of, of, of a web browser so that you can, uh, access all your different shaft things. But I digress and I’m not salty about it or anything, uh, that, that we’ve, that we’ve as a society could completely regressed, but, uh, yeah.

[00:36:41] Brett: [00:36:41] Yeah, I don’t have a segue for this, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna fit our other sponsor in here. Um, and then I do actually have a segue to the next topic, but it’s gonna, it’s not gonna work now because we’re going to talk about ritual.

[00:36:56]Christina: [00:36:56] yeah, we’re going to talk about ritual.

[00:36:58] Brett: [00:36:58] This episode

[00:36:59] Christina: [00:36:59] about some [00:37:00] vitamins.

[00:37:00] Brett: [00:37:00] what.

[00:37:01]Christina: [00:37:01] I was like, so soft spots and vitamins.

[00:37:03] Brett: [00:37:03] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this episode is brought to you by ritual.

[00:37:07] If you’re looking for a multivitamin that will fill the gaps in your diet, ritual is perfect. It’s vegan, non-GMO gluten and allergen-free and provides, excuse me, nutrients that cover all the bases. I don’t know about you, but the holiday season tends to be a bit stressful for me and I need all the nutrition I can get.

[00:37:26] Um, rituals, multivitamins have no sugars, synthetic fillers or artificial colorant. All of its ingredients are transparently sourced all the way through and all of the nutrients come in. Bioavailable forms that your body can actually utilize. Ritual is scientifically developed to help support different life stages.

[00:37:45] I’m taking the formula for men, but there are also formulations for teens prenatal and one just for women, which I know Christina has been taking. How’s that going?

[00:37:55] Christina: [00:37:55] it’s good. Well, I mean, I, I haven’t taken a multivitamin, which, you know, [00:38:00] my doctors and my mom, mostly my mom has been like on me to take for a really long time. And, um, it’s been really nice actually, you know, taking a multivitamin every day. Um,

[00:38:11] Brett: [00:38:11] do you love the mint smell?

[00:38:14] Christina: [00:38:14] I do like the mint smell.

[00:38:15] It’s nice.

[00:38:15] Brett: [00:38:15] put a, like a mint bar into every bottle and I, I, I I’m addicted to the smell of it.

[00:38:23]Christina: [00:38:23] Yeah, no, it’s nice. It’s nice. And, uh, I, it doesn’t taste bad. Like it doesn’t have a weird, like aftertaste thing, like some, you know, like multivitamins do, which is one of the reasons why, like, you know, you still always Mike cause my mom growing up, I used to always take them and I’d be like, Oh, these are like horse pills.

[00:38:38] And it’s not like that experience, which I really

[00:38:41] Brett: [00:38:41] Yeah, they’re, they’re nice small pills and they’re cool looking too with like liquid and stuff floating in them. It’s part of the whole bioavailable nutrients thing. Um, my formula, the men formula has 10 nutrients in it, including the vitamin E and the D that my psychiatrist recommends. Uh, and I’ve gone from [00:39:00] taking four different supplements every morning to just taking two ritual vitamins, along with my meds, uh, and their delayed release formula.

[00:39:08] It means I can take them without a meal, which is great while I’m here doing intermittent fasting. Uh, and you deserve to know what’s in your multivitamin. That’s why ritual is offering our listeners 10% off during your first three months. Visit ritual.com/overtired to start your ritual today.

[00:39:28]Christina: [00:39:28] Woo.

[00:39:29] Brett: [00:39:29] Um, I, I’m not good at conversational ad reads. Like if I’m reading, it’s gonna sound like I’m like Trump in that way, you can tell when I’m reading. And even if I write it out so that it’s supposed to sound conversational, it still sounds like I’m reading. So I, I, these might be more effective if I were more conversational. So let’s, let’s pretend I’m being conversational because we love sponsors and, and, and ritual [00:40:00] is great.

[00:40:01]Christina: [00:40:01] We appreciate them. Yeah, no, you’re no similar to Roche for you’re getting better. I think it comes with practice. Uh, Simone, who I do rocket with is like hands down the best person at ad reads ever. She’s just hilarious. And we’ll come up with the most like bizarre, but funny like ways of doing the reads and, uh, On our 300th episode of rocket, um, uh, we actually learned that there was a sponsor we had at one point where they like loved the reeds, but, but, uh, um, I th I think it was my curly who told us, like, yeah, we did hear back from a sponsor one time that they’re like, we love, we love the ad read, but maybe in the future, could you not?

[00:40:39] It was for a mattress. They were like, could you not like, talk about jumping out the window? Onto the mattress. Like don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t don’t encourage that sort of thing. And he was telling us this and like, none of us remembered it, but we were like, yeah, that sounds like when a Simone’s, uh, awesome.

[00:40:56]Brett: [00:40:56] Uh, back when systematic was on five by [00:41:00] five, uh, were overtired used to be as well. Um, uh, we’d get our reads from Dan and they would, uh, I, as far as I knew at the time, uh, we were supposed to read them verbatim and I, it always felt weird to me to do a commercial. Uh, that wasn’t supposed to sound like a commercial, so I would actually record them in post.

[00:41:24] Uh, do I, uh, for a couple of them, I, I did a, a Barry white thing where I pitched, shifted my voice down and added like music behind it, like bound, Chica bound music.

[00:41:36] Christina: [00:41:36] Oh, that’s fantastic.

[00:41:38] Brett: [00:41:38] told those were actually fairly effective. Um,

[00:41:41] Christina: [00:41:41] I bet

[00:41:42] Brett: [00:41:42] I’m not

[00:41:42] Christina: [00:41:42] that’d be people like

[00:41:43] Brett: [00:41:43] do that to this,

[00:41:44] Christina: [00:41:44] No, no. I mean, I think also people know you expect one of two types of batteries in your podcast. Now you either expect it to be dynamically inserted. Um, which is awesome if that happens. Or like if, if, if your podcast is doing well enough [00:42:00] that you can get the dynamically inserted as well.

[00:42:02] Uh, ads, um, uh, and listeners, if you hear those on your podcast, I understand being annoyed, but also if it’s a smaller podcast, especially be happy for them, because that means that like they’re doing really well, if that’s what they’re getting to do. So you hear like the, the dynamically inserted, like prerecorded things, or you have, you know, what we’ve do, which is our, our live reads.

[00:42:22] Um, and, uh, and sometimes you do have people who will, you know, record and then insert, you know, their own reads and whatnot. But, um, It’s interesting how podcast advertising has evolved, but that’s a, that’s a whole other topic for another time that I don’t think our listeners care that much about

[00:42:40] Brett: [00:42:40] So let’s pretend we’re talking about, uh, like text-based chat and things like that. And let’s pretend that I just came up with a brilliant segue to the idea posted by one Christina Warren. four stories and windows terminal.

[00:42:59] Christina: [00:42:59] Yes,

[00:43:00] [00:43:00] Brett: [00:43:00] to read this. Just read it out loud. Should I

[00:43:04] Christina: [00:43:04] I think he

[00:43:05] Brett: [00:43:05] let me load it back up here? This is it’s worth hearing. It’s. This is, this was posted w w you want to say like two in the morning?

[00:43:13]Christina: [00:43:13] warning. I, I posted this as an official feature requests on the windows terminal, uh, get hub repository, uh, like this was an official feature request that I formed that I filled out.

[00:43:25] Brett: [00:43:25] All right. So imagine you’re, you’re reading, you’re reading through the feature requests. Most of which are are serious and you come up with one titled, add a stories, feature to windows terminal. Stories are the new hotness, Snapchat invented stories, but the paradigm of ephemeral updates has since been adopted by Instagram, WhatsApp, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and most recently, Spotify there’s even a vs code extension that adds this feature, which was surprising to me.

[00:43:53] Um, why should LinkedIn get all the fun windows? Terminal might be a singular experience, but with user [00:44:00] profiles, is it really? But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t create an a from a femoral social layer into it. Windows terminal stories could be in just form, get hub or scripts in your favorite shell language, PW or bash or Z shell Zishe into club.

[00:44:17] We all fam into club. We all fam this is, this is like a kids speak that I don’t understand, but

[00:44:25] Christina: [00:44:25] That was a, that was a broad city reference. Sorry, go

[00:44:27] Brett: [00:44:27] okay. That could also be print screens of your favorite current terminal session. Because who does, who doesn’t want to show off their latest Neo fetch, wind fish, ASCII art as a long-term goal, there could even be a way to share a just slash link in your config file to share your specific terminal preferences and font color information.

[00:44:48] That actually seems like all the Git requests,

[00:44:51] Christina: [00:44:51] I, I actually, actually I agree. And ironically, that was the one thing that they kind of took from this they’re like, yeah, that’s actually a good idea.

[00:44:58] Brett: [00:44:58] It goes on with [00:45:00] proposed technical implementation details, just to really sell the idea that straight face that it was an actual, uh, feature request. So how did this go?

[00:45:12]Christina: [00:45:12] Well, um, the initial response was incredibly positive. Everybody was completely on board and absolutely agrees with me that we should absolutely add stories to windows terminal, because you totally want to have a web server layer and a social layer in your terminal. Like that’s exactly what everybody needs.

[00:45:31] We need to social and game-ify everything like

[00:45:34] Brett: [00:45:34] and everyone’s being straight faced.

[00:45:36] Christina: [00:45:36] Everybody. Yeah, everybody’s straight face. Everybody was like, I want this. I mean, it was like, it was, it was immediately uploaded, got tons and tons of likes, tons of plus ones. It was, it went over really, really well. Uh, and then, um, you know, a few hours later, uh, the team comes in and wakes up to this and they were like, Okay.

[00:45:56] Uh, we’ve all had a good laugh. These are some [00:46:00] problems I see with this. Ironically, the one feature that both you and I thought they were like, that’s actually a good idea about being able to share your, your session and whatnot. They’re like, okay, this is actually good. And we’ve talked about. A way to do this before, but this actually is a good idea.

[00:46:14] Uh, but, but this, this maybe doesn’t seem like a good feature, but then they assigned it to, um, uh, the PM who it’s her fault that all this happened, because she dared me to do it on Twitter and didn’t think that I would actually do this. Um, and, and then, um, and, and, and she ended up, you know, like declining me, like.

[00:46:32]You know, I love the idea, great issue. I don’t think this is a place for this. The conversation continued and then somewhere around the 18 hour Mark, um, people started to not understand that this was a joke and started.

[00:46:47] Brett: [00:46:47] to me, but

[00:46:49] Christina: [00:46:49] I agree. No, I, 100% agree. I mean, like I thought that I was pretty, like, I wrote it straight face, but I thought that like, if you read it, like you, you understand that I’m not actually being serious.

[00:47:00] [00:47:00] Uh, and you know what I mean? Like I, you know, I obviously wrote it like in a, you know, completely. You know, like the, the whole concert was to make it seem realistic, but, but obviously it’s not, but people clearly did not seem to get that this was not a real thing. And in fact, I even had people on Twitter who were like coming at me and were like getting really angry.

[00:47:21] And I was like, it’s a joke. Uh, and then it got, you know, and then, then people seem to think it was funny again. And then it shifted and went real, like. Where people just got like a mad, like, angry, and we’re like, this is why, you know, Microsoft has so many problems and how did she get her job? And, uh, I was actually a little bit upset that the, the, uh, whole thing was, was locked because I want us to respond to that guy and be like, I got my job cause I’m really fucking good at my job.

[00:47:52] Actually, I got my job because of shit like this, to be totally honest, I work in developer relations and this is why like, I’m good at what I do [00:48:00] because of

[00:48:00] Brett: [00:48:00] of humor to do this

[00:48:01] Christina: [00:48:01] Exactly. You have to have a sense of humor and it’s funny and like developers enjoyed it. And I got something out of it. Like, you know what I mean?

[00:48:07] Like this is called engagement. And also I’m like, I’m, I’m really good at what I do actually. Like it’s funny. Cause, um, especially when I first switched careers, there was a time when I had like definite inferiority complex and like imposter syndrome. And I still do to some extent, but I’m way more confident and comfortable and I’m like, no, I deserve to be here every bit, as much as you know, Anybody else on my team.

[00:48:30] And I’m, I’m really good at what I do. Uh, but, um, I have to give the windows terminal team credit. Cause at that point, once it started getting nasty, which, you know, fuck that guy, but also lull. Um, one of the, the, the, the, the engineer who had originally responded to the issue, he was like, all right, I’m going to lock this.

[00:48:47] And he defended me. And he was like, actually, you know, I thought we could all enjoy, you know, a nice humorous thread, but I guess not. And, and, uh, you know, w w you know, stood up for me as like a colleague and was like, you [00:49:00] know, maybe some people like their colleagues have a sense of humor, um, which clearly some of you lack, but, um, yeah, that was, that was a fun and, uh, sort of disappointing into the 24 hour experiment.

[00:49:11] But, um, I, as I told him, uh, in a teams, I was like, I gotta be honest. It, it. Like lasted longer than I thought that way before it blew up to be totally honest.

[00:49:23] Brett: [00:49:23] like they just locked it two hours ago.

[00:49:25] Christina: [00:49:25] Yeah, exactly. They just locked it like this morning and it took a while. So it actually like took longer than I thought that it would for it to go to hell because you know, the internet.

[00:49:34] But, uh, yeah. Um, I had, I was thinking about us in our show cause I was like, you know, I trolled, um, you know, the, the, um, the gimp people last week. And I was like, now I’m trolling the windows, terminal people, but I do have

[00:49:47] Brett: [00:49:47] to have a shit posting corner of the show now.

[00:49:50] Christina: [00:49:50] really are. We are going to have a shit posting corner of the show, but the thing is, is that like, I love the windows terminal so much.

[00:49:55] It’s actually one of my very favorite projects. Like I love it, love it, love it. And, [00:50:00] um, and I appreciate that they had like such a good sense of humor about the whole thing. Um, also I do actually think that that sharing of config thing is a good idea.

[00:50:11]Brett: [00:50:11] I would love to maybe next episode, you can tell me why you love windows terminal. Cause I haven’t used it. Like, I’m a huge fan of terminal apps in general. I would love to hear what’s special about windows terminal.

[00:50:23] Christina: [00:50:23] Yeah, no, no, we’ll we’ll, we’ll talk about it. Next episode. The, the sh the TLDR, they’ll just say what your appetite they’ll say is that when they created it, Their goal was to be, I term too, but for windows like that is their watermark. That’s their watermark. Exactly. I knew you would. And that’s the thing like that.

[00:50:43] And, you know, um, it might not be there they’re completely, but like that’s what the team’s like personal benchmark

[00:50:50] Brett: [00:50:50] Even if it was I term too, from like three years ago

[00:50:55] Christina: [00:50:55] right,

[00:50:56] Brett: [00:50:56] before they went crazy with new features and I term,

[00:51:00] [00:51:00] Christina: [00:51:00] right.

[00:51:00] Brett: [00:51:00] it have a team of X mode?

[00:51:03] Christina: [00:51:03] It

[00:51:03] Brett: [00:51:03] Oh, that’s amazing.

[00:51:04]Christina: [00:51:04] Uh, and, and it, it can, it works with multiple shells and, and, um, it’s really good. We’ll talk about it, um, next episode, but, but, um, cause cause if you have to, if you ever have to use windows, like you would actually really enjoy it and um, it’s open source, you know, they’re, they’re developing it in the open with the community and um, I really respect like the work that the team has done on that.

[00:51:28] And. They’re they’re really nice people. So I, uh, I appreciated them, you know, like letting me, letting me troll them, uh, and, and having a good humor about it. The, the, some of, some of the CUNY people, maybe not as much, but no, they had like really, really good humor about it, which was nice. Um, and, uh, but I have to also say like, especially for 2:00 AM, I was like, this is pretty funny.

[00:51:51] This is a pretty good, pretty good issue.

[00:51:53]Brett: [00:51:53] So the last topic on our list that I want to hit before we run out of time, because it [00:52:00] won’t be relevant. Next week. Hopefully it won’t be relevant next week is this press conference that Rudy

[00:52:08] Christina: [00:52:08] Oh my God.

[00:52:09] Brett: [00:52:09] where he, he brought in a quote unquote witness or like a whistleblower to talk about how dominion voting systems which were used in sub several of the battleground States were actually, uh, an invention of Hugo Chavez.

[00:52:27] And, uh, like their claim was that dominion was owned by smart MADEC, which was created, uh, in, in Spain, uh, in like 2012 or whatever. And, uh, which is, you know, like Chavez has been dead since 2013, so it’s almost irrelevant. But anyway, like the point of me bringing this up is the entire premise is faulty [00:53:00] because smart MADEC and dominion are competitors and have never shared hardware or software.

[00:53:05] Christina: [00:53:05] Right, right. I’m actually of the opinion that I have a lot of problems actually with, um, you know, electronic voting systems in general. And I don’t like how the black boxes exist. And, and I think that there is not in this case at all, because I think that the election was completely fair and that all the auditing proves that.

[00:53:22] But I think you can have a conversation about how the system works systems work and ended that is. A conversation that is worth having. And in fact, the, the head of, you know, um, you know, cyber security or whatever, the guy that, that Trump fired and that then one of his cronies says should be drawn and quartered and

[00:53:42] Brett: [00:53:42] it right.

[00:53:43] Christina: [00:53:43] Like that guy even said that like paper balances, you know, the key to, you know, fair elections and he’s, I think completely right. But the, the fact that. You know, the way that that Rudy would go about this is to conflate these two [00:54:00] competitors who don’t share anything and like are actively going after the same, you know, contracts is just, I mean, it’s just so good.

[00:54:10] It’s it’s

[00:54:11] Brett: [00:54:11] it’s infuriating. Yeah.

[00:54:13] Christina: [00:54:13] It is it’s it’s hilarious. Yeah, no, I mean also, uh, did you see, and I don’t even know how many weeks ago this was, but the one press conference he had where like the hair dye or whatever he had was dripping down his face,

[00:54:25]Brett: [00:54:25] We brought on that, that lawyer that they since distanced themselves from, that originated this conspiracy theory.

[00:54:33] Christina: [00:54:33] Yes. Well, this is the thing, right? Like they, they, they distance themselves from her because she went to off the deep end. They’re like, okay, this is actually hurting us, but yet they’re still repeating all of her stuff. And then, and then yesterday, um, uh, Monday as we’re recording this, there was some sort of bat shit hearing in Arizona.

[00:54:54] Like one of their state assemblies or whatever, where one of their guys, [00:55:00] you know, again, presented bat shit, insane things. And Rudy Giuliani was asking questions and you have these elected officials in Maricopa County and places like that who were just straight up shills, who are like, you know, it it’s under the guise of it being some sort of official business, but it’s, it’s clearly not.

[00:55:18] And I was just, I was watching part of the. The quote-unquote hearing, cause it’s not a real hearing. And, and I was just like, is how was this not a farce? Like how, how is, how is this actual real life? I mean,

[00:55:33] Brett: [00:55:33] there should be a perjury charges. If you’re going to have a public hearing and what they do it like a Hyatt.

[00:55:40]Christina: [00:55:40] yeah,

[00:55:41] Brett: [00:55:41] should be some kind of accountability because they take these same charges into courtrooms and they just get laughed out yet. They have these conference, these like basically they’re news conferences where they try to make this seem official and legal.

[00:55:56] And it’s, it’s not at all. They have [00:56:00] zero evidence to back. These claims up

[00:56:02] Christina: [00:56:02] Zero zero.

[00:56:03] Brett: [00:56:03] some accountability for that.

[00:56:06] Christina: [00:56:06] I agree. And I mean, I have appreciated that the media for the most part has completely ignored. You know, this they’re not broadcasting these things except maybe showing like the, the meme highlights, um, except for, you know, like you’re completely unhinged media, like Newsmax and OAN and, and places like that, that I, you know, don’t count.

[00:56:26] But the, the problematic thing to me, more than. Like cause okay. Fox news, you know, this is my favorite thing of the conservatives are all now mad at Fox news. Uh, which is hilarious. Uh, cause they’re like, Oh, you’re, you’re, you’re you’re not backing up these insane theories. And it’s like, no, they’re, they’re not exactly unless you’re you’re right.

[00:56:47] Unless you’re Maria Bartiromo who fuck her. But like, uh, I mean, I never liked her seriously. I look. I’m just going to go on a rant here. I never liked her ever. Um, she was on CNBC [00:57:00] forever. She was like kind of the face of that. And I never liked her and Erin Burnett, who I always really liked and looked up to came on the scene and was like the younger, better, more competent version of Maria Bartiromo and Maria like could not stand Erin Burnett and you know, really like.

[00:57:18] Actively like made, like, it was not like it was, there was like intense rivalry. And, um, when Aaron left and got her CNN show, like clearly she won. Right. Cause she has a prime time CNN show and, and, and, and, and Maria wound up having to leave to go to. Fricking Fox business. And I say this, I should add as someone who has appeared on the Fox business network probably a hundred times.

[00:57:45] Uh, and I’m not like that’s not a flax is all I’m saying like that, that that’s like, nobody should be like, like, Oh, I’m on Fox business. Who cares?

[00:57:54] Brett: [00:57:54] wives comments from, uh, from the Fox business dressing room.

[00:58:00] [00:58:00] Christina: [00:58:00] Oh completely. Yeah. No, no joke. Yeah. Well, I got, I really liked the, um, The makeup and the hair people, but that was it. Uh, also like that’s the only place that you’d ever see people of color on Fox. Uh, it was, was, you know, makeup and hair people, but I really liked them, but the rest of the people, but, uh, yeah, but other than, um, like, but Berta, Roma was always been terrible and now people are finally coming around to they’re like, Oh, but she used to be so good.

[00:58:24] I was like, no, during the financial crisis, no, she wasn’t like during the financial crisis, this was when she really like, this is when Arab Annette really kicked her ass. Cause Erin Burnett was an actual, like. Analysts and had worked at Goldman Sachs and actually knew what she was talking about. And wasn’t like a shill for the banks.

[00:58:41] And, you know, wasn’t married to a billionaire hedge fund guy and, uh, was, was good at her job. Whereas Burr Romo, like the economy is literally collapsing and she’s just like defending and carrying water for all the banks and shit. And I’m like, you fucking like. Fuck you do like you’re, you’re, you’re awful.

[00:59:00] [00:58:59] Uh, and, uh, so, so seeing, seeing her come up and so it’s been fun, but the it’s just insane to me that, that like, um, so here’s what I was gonna say. I’m, I’m happy the mainstream media isn’t covering this, but I am slightly concerned because I go to YouTube and they’ll do these live streams of stuff. Like, I’ll see people who are carrying those streams and there will be like, Tens of thousands of people tuning into these, like right-wing super, super, super like off the rails channels.

[00:59:32] And, uh, we all focus on Newsmax and Oceana is like, yeah, that’s not where the eyeballs are. Like, it’s actually. Steven Crowder. And some of these other things where you have a lot more people who it’s like a much bigger audience and they’re not even on the damn radar. And they’re like, that’s, that’s the concerning thing to me.

[00:59:50] Like as the future of our democracy, but fingers crossed this won’t matter, as you said, because they’re going to certify all this shit and, uh, they have new [01:00:00] case. And, um, the only disappointing thing is that we’re going to have to listen to this, you know, Like giant baby with its tiny desk bleed on about how the election was rigged until the end of time.

[01:00:15] And the only thing I can hope is that the mainstream media will ignore him because I feel like if they do, if they just don’t report on him, like after he’s out of office, they just straight up don’t report on him. He, he won’t ever completely go away, but he will lose his power because,

[01:00:33] Brett: [01:00:33] He’ll be relegated to parlor instead of Twitter.

[01:00:36] Christina: [01:00:36] Exactly.

[01:00:37] That’s what I’m saying. Right. And the thing is, is that as, as much as I do worry, that like alternative forms of media are gaining bigger and bigger influence for someone

[01:00:45] Brett: [01:00:45] when is OEN and Newsmax lumped in with legitimate news organizations? That’s,

[01:00:50] Christina: [01:00:50] I know, I agree with you. I agree with you. The only thing though, is that. Partly one reason that they’re lumped in with it is because mainstream media, like [01:01:00] give them that credence. And if, if when Trump has gone, like here’s the thing, um, he needs and thrives on mainstream media stuff. So if the foxes and the CNNs and the MSNBC’s and whoever else is of the world, don’t cover him.

[01:01:18] Again, he won’t ever completely go away, but he will be relegated to these smaller pockets and it won’t make it, it won’t make a big splash and like he needs, he needs that like mainstream, you know, New York times

[01:01:31] Brett: [01:01:31] it’s very optimistic to think that he’s ever going away.

[01:01:36] Christina: [01:01:36] Oh, he’s.

[01:01:36] Brett: [01:01:36] Trumpism, isn’t.

[01:01:38] Christina: [01:01:38] Oh, I agree with that. I know. Oh, I agree with that. And he’s not ever going away. I’m just saying like, I hope I’m and I, I’m not saying I think this will happen cause I don’t think it will. But what I would hope is that these networks would realize we no longer have. Uh, ethical obligation to cover this because he’s the president of the United States.

[01:01:59] Cause [01:02:00] that was always the argument before. It’s like, even though he’s unhinged, even though this is lies, even though whatnot, like he is the president of the United States and it is by its very existence news when he does these things. But when he’s just a private citizen and like an unhinged, you know, former guy, like you don’t actually need to have.

[01:02:17] A new story for every single one of his tweets. Like you don’t actually have to do that. And so I’m hoping, uh, you know, I’m not super like confident in this happening, but I’m hopeful that maybe some of those organizations and networks especially will be like, you know what, we don’t, we don’t need to do this.

[01:02:36] Cause if that, if, if, if that isn’t happening, I do feel like Trumpism isn’t going away, but maybe the, the fuel will be dissipated.

[01:02:46] Brett: [01:02:46] those two weeks after the election, when he just kind of CELT and didn’t have any public appearances, there was this, uh, visceral breadth of a relief. And it was like, the networks were [01:03:00] just super happy to, I’m sure it affected their ratings, but they were super happy to just not have to say anything or repeat anything that he said, or at least I felt a breath of relief.

[01:03:13] Christina: [01:03:13] No I did too. I did too. And I, and I, and it actually, that’s a really good example cause it did it at that point. All of the crazy shit really did go to the fringes. And to me it’s like, okay, if that’s what you want to do fine. Um, I don’t know if you’ve read any of the interviews that the Newsmax CEO has been giving lately.

[01:03:30] This guy’s a trip, so he’s a billionaire. Uh, he’s obviously like a terrible person, but he also is. Pretty honest, like when asked directly, he’s like, yeah, he has no shot in hell at winning, but he’s my friend, but, you know, whatever. But like he, he straight out says, yeah, my audience is full of morons, but I really want to make money off of them. And, and, and there’s a part of me that kind of respects that. Um, I don’t, cause I think it’s dangerous, you know, for a lot of reasons, but there’s a [01:04:00] part of me that I’m kind of like, okay. I mean, at least you’re like,

[01:04:04] Brett: [01:04:04] could say the same thing. He just doesn’t say it out loud.

[01:04:07] Christina: [01:04:07] Well, right. But that’s what I’m saying. This guy does actually say it out loud. He’s actually like very self-aware about the fact that he’s like, yeah, I, these people are idiots, but I’m really happy to take their money. And I’m really happy to build a business off of this. I’m like, okay. Wow. You know, I mean, like, I, I thanks for your honesty, but yeah.

[01:04:28] Brett: [01:04:28] Trump, Trump selection, defense fund made millions of dollars. Most of which will go to cover his own debts.

[01:04:35] Christina: [01:04:35] Yeah,

[01:04:36] Brett: [01:04:36] All right. Um,

[01:04:37] Christina: [01:04:37] yeah.

[01:04:38] Brett: [01:04:38] will dropping in show notes, um, because we’ll probably never talk about this again, hopefully, but, uh, there was a great article in wired prior to the election on. Uh, kind of the future of voting systems. And there was a really, uh, really well thought through system that came out of a hackathon that was like [01:05:00] a blockchain based, accountable voting system that was basically unhackable, a full paper trail, full audit trail for every vote. And, and like you said, honestly, like the dominion machines, they print out paper, there’s a full paper audit available for every vote.

[01:05:21] It’s, it’s a secure enough system, but this blockchain voting system actually sounded really cool. And you could go home and you could verify that your vote was cast and counted and yeah, I’ll find that article. It’ll be in the show

[01:05:36] Christina: [01:05:36] Yeah. Find that. Yeah, no, that’s interesting. Cause we are going to have to, not in this context, but we are going to have to think about, you know, elect like this, this issue is not going to go away. This Pandora’s box has now been opened and I don’t think it’s actually wrong that we talk about it. And we’re obviously not the only country that’s dealing with this too.

[01:05:54] And. I mean, Hey, we finally found a good use for the blockchain, Brett, like

[01:05:59][01:06:00] Brett: [01:05:59] Legitimate. I mean, it’s a cool tech. It’s just been, uh, poorly.

[01:06:04] Christina: [01:06:04] just, well, right. It’s just been in, in almost every other instance. It’s like, why would you not just use a database? Yes,

[01:06:11] Brett: [01:06:11] Yeah. All right. Well, that was, uh, I really enjoyed this episode.

[01:06:17] Christina: [01:06:17] me too. Me too. Um, uh, good, good, good

[01:06:20] Brett: [01:06:20] We, we hit, we hit tech, we hit Taylor Swift. We hit depression and mental health. What an episode? This is, this is perfect. Overtired.

[01:06:30] Christina: [01:06:30] Perfect overtired. All right, Brett, get some sleep, Brett.