205: A Deep Kind of Mauve Color

From bipolar disorder to text editors in three simple steps. In peak Overtired fashion, Brett and Christina cover West Coast Air Quality, mental health, the benefits of VS Code, and all of the random tangents you know and love.


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Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.


01Intro + 2

[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] hold on. You’re ready.

[00:00:09]Christina: [00:00:09] that is nifty. This is over. You’re listening to over-tired. I’m Christina Warren.

[00:00:15] Brett: [00:00:15] She’s delighted. This is Brett TURPs dress. She’s delighted because I just, I, I rigged up this whole soundboard using my stream deck and loop back and, uh, audio hijack. So I can just hit a button. And play soundtrack stuff. And so we can do this live and save me maybe five minutes of editing. I put like an hour into building this soundboard,

[00:00:40] Christina: [00:00:40] Right. So, but I love it actually. And it’s not about saving time because that’s not what any of the things that you build are about. It’s about the fact that you’ve done it. And, um, at some point maybe it will be time-saving, but it’s just really cool. I’m very excited.

[00:00:59] Brett: [00:00:59] me [00:01:00] too. I just, I ordered a bigger stream deck. I ran out of buttons.

[00:01:06] Christina: [00:01:06] I knew that it was going to happen. Cause you got the mini. I was like, man, you probably, you’re probably an Excel person if I’m being

[00:01:11] Brett: [00:01:11] Cause, well, cause you can have folders, right? So like you can have five buttons in a folder, but you always lose one button to the back button and then you can have it switch profiles. So you can get six entirely different buttons depending on what app is in the foreground. But for something like a soundboard, I need it in the foreground.

[00:01:30] Even when I’ll talk about it after it comes out, I wrote, Oh, so w we’ll get to this, we’ll get to why I wrote all next week posts already. Um, but first I’m currently in a text chat with my cousin who I don’t talk to often.

[00:01:47] Haven’t really spoken with her since. Probably the nineties. Um, but we’re catching up and she she’s in California. And so like 20 minutes from her, there are [00:02:00] fires right now and they’ve been locked inside for, with the air quality, the way it is. How’s your end of the West coast.

[00:02:07] Christina: [00:02:07] Real not good, obviously, not as bad as California in terms of, um, you know, the horrors that are happening, like the skies aren’t orange, and we don’t have wildfires breaking out, although Oregon, which is just, you know, below us does, but the air quality right now, I’m trying to pull it up on my phone. The air quality right now is let’s see what the number is.

[00:02:34] Is two 37, which is, is very much in the very unhealthy category. And like, there’s this, this color kind of wheel it’s in the purple. And there’s only one color after that. It’s at the beginning of the purple, but there’s only one color after that. That’s like this, this deep kind of Mav color, which I’m assuming is like, You’re, you’re not allowed to, you know, go anywhere without a really good [00:03:00] filter mask.

[00:03:00] And on the one hand, like I haven’t gone outside cause pandemic. And so like on the one hand, I guess it’s good that everybody is, is forced to wear masks for social distancing reasons. On the other hand, the, the fabric mask don’t do shit for this.

[00:03:17] Brett: [00:03:17] Right.

[00:03:18] Christina: [00:03:18] So. You know, this is one of those situations where you really would want the people P E like, like the, the in 95 masks.

[00:03:25] Brett: [00:03:25] well, what’s actually, uh, I can’t remember what all the letters and numbers mean. It’s pretty, it’s pretty intuitive, but I forget, um, the, the masks that would be best for air quality are not good for viral spread. So like at this point, everyone needs to have at least three different kinds of mask on them at all times.

[00:03:46]If you’re in California, I mean, I don’t need a pollution mask.

[00:03:50] Christina: [00:03:50] Right. I was going to say, yeah, cause I do remember that, for instance, I like the reason that Apple had so many in 95 or in 97 or whatever, the number was mass, that they were able to donate. [00:04:00] Cause they had like over a million of them was not because, cause they’re like, Oh, there’s going to be a pandemic.

[00:04:04] It’s the same thing with Facebook. It was because the wildfire. So, you know, um, but the, regardless, like all those types are hard to get, whether they’re good for, you know, spreading virus detection or not. And you know, uh, Like a clock mask. It’s better than nothing, but it’s, it doesn’t do shit to actually, you know, filter that stuff out.

[00:04:25] Like the few times I have been been pseudo outsider or whatever, like, I mean, you can just smell and taste the smoke and you can see it visibly because you can’t really see anything else. It looks like. Because, you know, we get, we, we get fog in Seattle, but this is not bog. This is smoke. So we this before, not this bad, but a couple of years ago, again, when there were like massive wildfires, we were getting it both from like coming down from Vancouver.

[00:04:52] And then also, you know, some stuff I guess, wafting over from San Francisco. But these I’m assuming we’re all getting from, from Oregon. [00:05:00] So. Yeah, no, the, uh, 2020, certainly if you look at the photos, I mean, like between everything that’s happening to me, it is, it is an apocalyptic year. Like I have to think that some of the religious, uh, like insane people, not to say that all religious people are insane, but like the people who’ve been like predicting the rapture and all that stuff, like are super, super stoked because you know, it does look like all the stuff is happening.

[00:05:28] Brett: [00:05:28] Somehow. I like I grew up in a world where it was constantly, well, this is a sign of the end times, you know, this is leading up to Armageddon. Um, and now all of the sudden these things that clearly are signs of the end, don’t seem to register that way anymore. I haven’t heard one Christian say, obviously this is the end of the world.

[00:05:55]Christina: [00:05:55] That’s really interesting. I wonder, I wonder how much politics plays into that.

[00:06:00] [00:06:00] Brett: [00:06:00] Well, I think it’s entirely politics. I think as long as it’s them causing the end of the world, then it’s a, it’s not Armageddon. It’s just a bad year.

[00:06:09]Christina: [00:06:09] Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of disappointing that that’s.

[00:06:14] Brett: [00:06:14] Right. We should all be cheering on the apocalypse at this point.

[00:06:19] Christina: [00:06:19] I mean, I think so. I’m like, what’s the point of having like, uh, you know, uh, being like apocalyptical and whatnot, if you’re not going to see, like, I mean, honestly, we’re very close to, you know, toads, like raining down, like that’s, that’s where we’re at.

[00:06:35]Brett: [00:06:35] I’ve had two great title ideas so far a deep kind of mob color. And apocalyptical, I’ll decide before the end of the show.

[00:06:43] Christina: [00:06:43] Fantastic. Fantastic. A quick update for you, um, since, um, your air quality is fine. Uh, how, how, how how’s the med situation?

[00:06:51] Brett: [00:06:51] well, okay. So I actually wrote a, a long post on my blog last week. Um, [00:07:00] you know, I go through these regular periods of not sleeping, but I never talk about why very much. Um, and it’s partly because I haven’t fully understood it. Until last couple years, but I’m bipolar. And I get these manic spaces, manic swings, manic episodes, and I’ll go through three to five days.

[00:07:25] Yeah. Of not sleeping, getting a bunch of stuff done. Um, they’re relatively mild in that. Like I know when they’re happening, like a lot of bipolar people that are here from, they don’t know when they’re manic. And they just think they’re being normal and making really good decisions when they are. In fact not, um, I don’t have that problem, but I’ve decided to start talking more about the bipolar stuff.

[00:07:51] It’s super easy to talk about ADHD. Like everyone could smile and nod and it’s well understood. [00:08:00] And you know, it’s something kids have it’s. It’s easy to grasp a bipolar scares people more though. So it has more stigma and I’m one for, uh, alleviating stigma, wherever possible.

[00:08:14]Christina: [00:08:14] Important cause I, I’m not bipolar, but I am informed agreement with trying to reduce the stigma around it. And honestly, that’s one of the reasons why I get, I think frustrated with people like Kanye West, who, well, not just him, but also the people around him when like he’s so clearly unmedicated and in pain and then going on, like, this is why I stopped even like commenting on the stuff that he did because.

[00:08:41] Like four years ago when we didn’t know what the situation was, there was like humor to it. Right. And then I stopped about four years ago because I very much got the, it like the, you know, it occurred to me. I was like, you know what? I think he’s [00:09:00] bipolar based on my own experiences with people who have it and things like that.

[00:09:03] I was like that this is what I think it is. And I don’t feel comfortable anymore, like making this into like a joke. Like I’m just, I’m just not comfortable with that. Okay. So then, you know, he, he becomes public about it, but it has the manic break, you know, kind of live on stage and whatnot. And then rather than. You know, kind of using that as an opportunity to do anything with it. He doesn’t, which is fine. He wants to deny it. He wants to try to pretend like, you know, um, it, it, it’s not a real thing. Okay, fine. That that’s his prerogative, but I become very bothered by the people in his family and his entourage who see the self destructive things that are happening and then refuse to do anything about it and enable him to be, you know, Running for president and, and talking and

[00:09:50] Brett: [00:09:50] Didn’t Kim didn’t Kim come out, um, like Instagram and talk about it.

[00:09:55] Christina: [00:09:55] She did. And I was actually very happy that she did that, but it’s like it, but it literally [00:10:00] took him like talking about his children and his wife and attacking her mother and her mother’s boyfriend. And, you know, claiming that he almost aborted his daughter and all this stuff while running for president.

[00:10:12] This is when this all happened for her to finally be like, okay, He’s not in a good place. This is what this reality is. And I appreciated that she did that, but it was, it bothered me that it’s like, okay, you’re completely fine profiting off of it. When, um, when, when, when he, when he’s, you know, putting, um, you know, I’m bipolar and I love it, or whatever, you know, on the, on the cover of one of his albums and, and he’s doing the other light, just.

[00:10:38] Like the unhinged stuff, which is clearly like, what happens when you’re in like a manic spiral and you’re not being treated like you’re fine profiting off of it. But once, you know, you personally become called out, that’s when you’re finally going to like speak up and say something like, I’m going to be honest.

[00:10:54] I’m not, I try not to judge, you know, other people’s situations with that too much, but that did kind of bother me. [00:11:00] Cause I’m like, I’m glad you said something and that’s really important, but you’ve, you’ve. Enabled this to be totally candid and you’ve profited off of it. And, and that just makes me really sad because he’s such a talented musician.

[00:11:15] And I want your perspective on this. Cause I other people I know who are I’ve wholer, one of the things that has kept them many times from being treated correctly is that they feel like they can’t create. Unless they have, you know, the, those, the, the, the mania, like, they need that to create. And, and, and I, I guess my question for you is age.

[00:11:38] Do you feel that? And B and I can relate to that a little bit. Like I’ve never had, um, mania, but I have had, like, with depression, depression has, has kicked off like really creative. Inspirational parts within myself. And it used to be a thing where I could even kind of tie it to my period because of the hormones I was on with that and whatnot.

[00:11:57] But then it got to the point that my depression was so bad [00:12:00] that I couldn’t even create anymore. And, and I realized, I was like, well, even the good parts are, are, are bullshit. So I’m not going to be able to, I’m not going to be able to create regardless. So I was just curious, like, from your perspective, do you, do you struggle with that and how have you been able to kind of overcome that.

[00:12:17] Brett: [00:12:17] Yeah. So when I’m stable for too long, I really start wishing for mania. Not because it feels great or leads to good things, but because it’s really the only time that I. I feel like I come up with good ideas. Um, I I’ve had, I’ve had some good ideas in my life and almost all of them have come during

[00:12:41] Christina: [00:12:41] Okay.

[00:12:42] Brett: [00:12:42] three-day coding binges, or, you know, whatever happened, whatever I get up to while not sleeping.

[00:12:49] And, um, and I do, I do. And, and when I swing to the other end, which is very predictable, there’s like if I have three days of not sleeping, [00:13:00] Uh, three days of a manic episode, I’m going to have probably three days or four days of depression following it. And once I hit that depression, there’s I just lose interest, all these things that seemed super interesting and seem like great ideas suddenly are colorless.

[00:13:18] Um, nothing. I can’t feel anything about them anymore, and I definitely am not coming up with. Creative ideas or the motivation to make them happen. That happens mostly for me during manic episodes. I can, when I’m stable, which is I’m stable more often than I’m swinging, I’m medicated. I’ve been medicated since my twenties.

[00:13:42] Um, and I’ve gotten really good at it. At recognizing my own symptoms and kind of have my own coping mechanisms for it. But when I’m perfectly stable, I can be a normally productive person. Uh, my whole life people have lauded my productivity. [00:14:00] Uh, you get so much you’re done and yeah, for, you know, three, three days a month, I really, I get an inhuman amount of stuff done, but they don’t generally see the weeks at a time that I.

[00:14:12] Just kind of, I’m just kind of a normal human and I mean, I feel like everyone has productivity issues. It’s combined with ADHD for me, um, which doesn’t help productivity in general, but yeah, in answer to your question. Yeah. Mania is I think a lot of the greatest creations, uh, artistically have come from manic depressives.

[00:14:39]Christina: [00:14:39] Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t disagree with that. I guess I’m just curious, like, from, from your perspective, like how do you reconcile the fact that you can have those, those bouts of brilliance, but also know that at a certain point, like it’s. Like, you know, um, what was the term I’m looking for? Like, it’s diminishing returns, like at a certain point, [00:15:00] it’s not going to continue.

[00:15:01] And if you don’t get back on medication, if you don’t find a way to sleep again, you’re not going to have those creative spurts like that, that doesn’t continue on. That’s what I’m

[00:15:11] Brett: [00:15:11] I think, I think I just accept, like I don’t, I don’t feel like I get a lot of choice in the matter. Um, I accept what comes and. Like I, the medication I take and I, I never go off my meds, like my bipolar episodes or not because I went off my meds. Um, I haven’t gone off my meds since I started them in my twenties.

[00:15:34] I think what you’re saying is that you have to see that there’s there’s bad.

[00:15:39] That comes with the good and you have to kind of, you, you have to acknowledge that there’s going to be, there’s going to be some pain involved, I guess. I don’t know. It’s a tough question. Really. I don’t think I have dealt with that.

[00:15:58] Christina: [00:15:58] Okay. Yeah, no, [00:16:00] I that’s just, that’s like, when I, when I look at people who are very clearly like talented, but are fighting the realities of that, I’m always, I’m always curious about that.

[00:16:10] Brett: [00:16:10] think it’s the, uh, the epitome of the tortured artist.

[00:16:13] Christina: [00:16:13] yeah, probably.

[00:16:16] Brett: [00:16:16] Maybe that’s what that means. Maybe that just means bipolar.

[00:16:20] Christina: [00:16:20] I mean it’s possible. I mean, I, there is something to be said. I think about great art and people who are in, who are depressed or bipolar, or, um, have some other form of mental illness. I think that, uh, the two are linked in some way, not to say that that’s the only way that you can produce great art, but it certainly is.

[00:16:41] I think a common ality, uh,

[00:16:43] Brett: [00:16:43] I mean,

[00:16:44] Christina: [00:16:44] for a lot of art.

[00:16:45] Brett: [00:16:45] are plenty of talented artists that do not rely on chemical imbalances to make their art. I don’t mean to imply that,

[00:16:53] Christina: [00:16:53] No. I know you don’t. I know you don’t. I do, but I, but I do think, I mean, studies have kind of shown, uh, that, that there are correlations, you [00:17:00] know, that it’s, it’s not just something that’s like, Oh, you know, it doesn’t mean every single person, but there are commonalities with, with, with having a chemical imbalance and being able to produce really amazing things.

[00:17:11] Um, which. You know, if you think about it kind of makes sense because everything is kind of going normal. That’s it doesn’t mean that the output isn’t great. It just means the output is going to be more expected. Right.

[00:17:23] Brett: [00:17:23] Yup. Um,

[00:17:25]Christina: [00:17:25] So have you been doing anything on like you’re on these sleepless binges? Has there been anything you’ve been working on.

[00:17:31] Brett: [00:17:31] Oh, well, like I said, I, I, I wrote a blog post for every day next week, and every one of them was about a project I was working on and a lot of it had to do with my app bunch weirdly. Um, I got back into developing that and working on the stream deck. And, uh, writing scripts and, uh, doing a lot of stuff. I go down rabbit holes, uh, aren’t worth sharing, uh, which like [00:18:00] when I go down a rabbit hole, the one thing that justifies it for me is maybe I get a blog post out of it.

[00:18:07] And that helped it built my career is built on like rabbit holes. Um, So like there’s a redeeming factor when I can like turn it into something I can write about something. I can share something I can provide to people. But so many of my rabbit holes when I’m manic are I get obsessed with like the one I wrote about in my blog posts was I was working on the command line interface that I made for the app hook.

[00:18:36] And I have this whole, uh, sub command based interface for it. That is self-documenting. Uh, I, I add a comment before each function and it, it builds itself at the end. It builds our doc documentation, but I wandered it to build markdown documentation. Yeah. Even though get hub is perfectly capable. Yeah. I’m taking an R doc document and making it your read me.

[00:19:00] [00:19:00] I wanted it to be a universal format like markdown and I spent. Hours. I spent from like midnight until 10:00 AM. Just writing one class that would output my documentation that’s marked down for. And let me, let me clarify. This is for a version of the CLI that isn’t even public yet. This was just for me, I’ll never, I’ll never be able to, uh, this will never benefit me.

[00:19:30] It was a complete waste of time.

[00:19:32]Christina: [00:19:32] I mean, I think that’s okay. I think that happens.

[00:19:35] Brett: [00:19:35] Sure. I just, I had a freelance gig I should have been working on.

[00:19:40] Christina: [00:19:40] Then that, then that then that’s disappointing. Like if you add actual work, okay. Then that’s, that’s the part that like, that’s, that’s the part that I think that, that should be the focus. Not that you did the thing that won’t benefit you, but that you had this opportunity to work on something that could have actually been beneficial and you didn’t, you know,

[00:19:55] Brett: [00:19:55] In fairness over my, over the succeeding. 48 [00:20:00] hours of sleepless nights, I did finish the freelance gig too.

[00:20:03] Christina: [00:20:03] Okay, well, that’s, that’s good. I mean, that’s, at least you finished that, but yeah. Yeah. Um, to complete non-sequitur work. Cause this is my add my ADHD as,

[00:20:16] Brett: [00:20:16] we’re here for. We’re all

[00:20:17] Christina: [00:20:17] I’m listening, as I’m listening to you and as you’re doing your talk about your projects, I’m now. Playing around with Homebrew for the first time in a while on my system.

[00:20:27] And they’ve updated it and they’ve changed the they’ve changed the commands significantly. And I don’t like it. I’m not a fan.

[00:20:36] Brett: [00:20:36] What are you talking about

[00:20:39] Christina: [00:20:39] So like, like brew, cask upgrade doesn’t work anymore. And I don’t know what the new command is to upgrade all of your outdated casks and brew cleanup doesn’t work anymore. It’s some new thing.

[00:20:52] And yeah, those are just the two changes that I’ve that I’ve

[00:20:56] Brett: [00:20:56] through dr. Runs through clean up now?

[00:20:59] Christina: [00:20:59] I [00:21:00] guess. So, uh,

[00:21:02] Brett: [00:21:02] In fact now, when I install in you formula, it runs cleanup at the end of it. Almost every time.

[00:21:09] Christina: [00:21:09] yeah, that, that, that it told me, but I’m looking through as I was calling brew CASCAP grid is deprecated use brew upgrade dash dash cask instead. Okay. Which, which sucks because it’s like, okay, well now it also brew cask. LISC is deprecated. And so I’m like, okay, well now I have to actually manually upgrade each cask.

[00:21:25] And so I’m like, okay, well tell me to tell me what I can do now to upgrade all of them. Um, and I, I I’m on this podcast with you. So what I’m trying to read the man page, but I’m not happy about this.

[00:21:35] Brett: [00:21:35] There is a script. Um, I’m trying to remember what it’s called, but it’s like an Uber updater and it will update. Not just brew, but it’ll update your makeover, uh, updates. It

[00:21:48] Christina: [00:21:48] yet? Is it Mac update? Updater

[00:21:50] Brett: [00:21:50] No, no, it has. It’s like an update, everything kind of name or something. Um,

[00:21:57] Christina: [00:21:57] yeah.

[00:21:57] Brett: [00:21:57] updates your NPM package. Is it [00:22:00] updates? Uh, I can’t remember what, all right now, everything that you would normally spend time updating all of your, your gems, your Ruby packages.

[00:22:10] Christina: [00:22:10] Okay. I need this because I’ve been using like, there’s a gooey app called mock-up data that I really, really like that actually does check, you know, Bruce stuff. It doesn’t check your Ruby gyms or your MPM packages. So I want to find this OmniUpdate or that you’re talking about. Um, And, but I, I do like, um, the mockup data, but I want to find this other thing, but now I’m, I’m just annoyed because this is one of those things that I like to run to make myself feel productive.

[00:22:37] And now the, the way I do things has changed and I’m not happy about it.

[00:22:42] Brett: [00:22:42] I, uh, I just searched my blog for update everything. Cause I felt like I had blogged about her at some point, but Mac updater was the first result for that. I blogged about back in 2019. I’ll find that script for you.

[00:22:55] Christina: [00:22:55] you’ll find it. Yeah. Uh, maca Bader guy is great. He actually added a it’s still [00:23:00] in development, but he actually added kind of a preliminary CLI tool for it specifically for me, which was pretty great.

[00:23:06] Brett: [00:23:06] Very nice. You’re so , yeah, that’s about to say something in a pro. I was just, you, you carry a lot of weight. People make you stuff.

[00:23:16] Christina: [00:23:16] I don’t think he had any idea who I was. I just like sent a tweet thing and he was like, that’s a pretty good idea. So

[00:23:22] um, so as you’ve been updating bunch, And, uh, also, um, what’s, what’s going on with, uh, with indie ultra.

[00:23:34] Brett: [00:23:34] So Fletcher schedule has been. Very like his personal life has gotten in the way of his development life and the way our code is set up, I’m very reliant on him to actually get things published. Um, but the thing I’m running into is a lot of people that are on the beta beta are MDL like longtime NBL users [00:24:00] and NB ultra is.

[00:24:03] Ostensibly a replacement for NBL. That was always the intention. Obviously that’s where the name came from. Um, and it is a perfect replacement for the way that I use. NBO it basically strips out all the stuff. I don’t use an NBO and improves this stuff I do use, but I’m realizing there are a lot of NVL fans that do things like click their mouse on stuff,

[00:24:31] Christina: [00:24:31] And you’re like, what? And you’re like, what’s a mouse.

[00:24:34] Brett: [00:24:34] I’m like you use the header columns in the list view to sort by why wouldn’t you use the keyboard shortcuts, um, and envy ultra like strips out as even more, uh, interface Chrome than NBL did at down to a point where you really have your, your list of notes with no previews and you have a full featured markdown editor, and there’s nothing else on your screen.

[00:25:00] [00:24:59] Um, which is what I wanted, but now I’m second guessing all of that people are people who expect it to be just like NBL give up on it right away. I’ve heard too many times about people that are like, I got on the beta. I tried it for five minutes. It wasn’t NVL. So I went

[00:25:23] Christina: [00:25:23] So I’m, I’m done. Totally, totally.

[00:25:26] Brett: [00:25:26] I don’t know what to do with those people.

[00:25:28] Christina: [00:25:28] Um, well I think that there are a couple of things you could do. From my perspective as somebody who kind of straddles the line between being those types of users and being your type of user. Uh, and, and also as somebody who I guess like now, like works directly with, you know, um, customers of widely used software, which is a different perspective than I’ve had before.

[00:25:53] Um, I think that. First you would, it would be useful to find out [00:26:00] are there, are there opportunities for them to be able to do what they did before? Like that, that’s my first question for you. Like can’t is there a way that if they played with the net, that where they could configure it and they could use it similar to the way they used some of those things before?

[00:26:12] Yes or no?

[00:26:14] Brett: [00:26:14] There there’s always the possibility. The first, first hurdle is that Fletcher and I have to agree that a feature should be added.

[00:26:24] Christina: [00:26:24] Okay. No, but the Buba going beyond that, meaning, meaning that a feature talking, not talking about like what features would need to be added. I’m saying that like right now, when somebody uses the app, are there certain things that they don’t know about that they could enable that would make it more similar to what it was like before?

[00:26:39] Brett: [00:26:39] Well, in some cases, uh, like. If you wanted to sort by date and you were used to clicking the list header to sort by date. Now it’s a keyboard shortcut because there’s no list header. Uh, when you want to, when you want to search, uh, people keep coming to me and saying, they’re used to clicking in the URL bar [00:27:00] and it, it would highlight, it would select all when you clicked in it.

[00:27:05] And ours doesn’t do that because we never even considered that people are going to use their mouse to get to the URL bar. Like that’s just command L and if people got used to command L they would find it was faster. Anyway. Um, so yeah, no, I basically, we, we removed a lot of the stuff that people seem to be looking for.

[00:27:26] Christina: [00:27:26] Okay, well, then that, that becomes a problem. Um, and I think that you and flusher are gonna have to figure out probably this is what you were talking about before, which is, are there things that you’d be willing to add back in. Um, or at the very least, um, allow an opportunity for people to access in a way similar to what they did before or not.

[00:27:46] And if the answer is no, then I do think that you probably need to be honest with those people and say, look, the way that you did things before is not going to work. And so if what you like before is, is what you want [00:28:00] to stick with, and this isn’t going to be for you. However, what might be useful would be to do with, um, You know, a series of blog posts, videos, or even like in-app sort of tutorials to show people where things have moved and how it works now.

[00:28:16] Um, so, so I think that that would, that would help a lot just to say, Hey, this is how it used to be done. This is what you do now, the other thing, and you know, I know that the name has already been kind of a contentious thing,

[00:28:33] Brett: [00:28:33] No. I know exactly what you’re going to say. And I agree.

[00:28:36] Christina: [00:28:36] Yeah, because the issue is, is that if you’re calling this envy, ultra and people are going to be making assumptions, that it’s going to be like the continuation of envy alt and it’s really not.

[00:28:45] It’s kind of a rebirth and kind of a reinvention. I don’t know if you, if you having the envy in the name.

[00:28:51] Brett: [00:28:51] I, I, I agree. Uh, it was, uh, We’ve talked about this. I know, but it was a, a point [00:29:00] of just giving up after going through huge mind maps, full of name ideas, and never being able to agree on anything. Uh, it just came down to envy. Ultra was a clever play on what was clearly going to be our LA our, our largest part of our initial customer base.

[00:29:20] Um, they would like, they would recognize it. They would find it. Hopefully clever, but yeah, you’re right. If I, if I don’t want people to make comparisons to envy all, then it was really stupid to call it MB, ultra.

[00:29:34]Christina: [00:29:34] Yeah. I mean, and look, you’re not unique in this. A lot of applications go through this and naming is hard, but a lot of applications go through this thing where they change things that you didn’t realize until you’ve gotten through the beta process, that people are really of faith. They use things the way that, you know, you use things, um, and, uh, they don’t use rather, they use things in a different way than how you use things and [00:30:00] that, that impacts your development.

[00:30:01] And so. It is worth looking at, especially now that you have feedback from you users, it is worth considering, is this just like a vocal minority of users or is this the vast majority of people who are using our product? And that will require a much harder conversations about what direction you want to take things in, because it’s very possible for you to be able to say, you know what, we’re willing to give up.

[00:30:24] Some of the older users maybe have a different name and we’re going to be going after a different user base because this is how we do things, but it also was worth considering. Okay. The people who we thought our users were and who they actually are, are different. And if we want to actually be able to sell this and market this and make this into something that is sustainable, then we need to make adjustments.

[00:30:45] Brett: [00:30:45] I think it’s going to be a combination of those two.

[00:30:48] Christina: [00:30:48] Yeah. I mean, I think so, too. Um, it’s interesting. Panic is, is sort of going through something similar with, um, uh, Nova, I mean, and, and they say this, [00:31:00] I haven’t heard them. Uh, uh, say that, but I’m in their beta. And I can just imagine that, you know, Nova is very, very different from Coda. And so I actually do think that them selling the name was smart to be totally honest, um, or, you know, selling the name to Coda.

[00:31:19] The web app was, was actually pretty smart. So I, um, But I imagine they’re going to get a lot of that too, from people once that hits general release next week, that a lot of people are going to be like, wait a minute. This is not the app that I thought it was, you know? Um, I don’t know. They, they have other challenges too.

[00:31:39] I will buy it. Um, I I’m, I’m proud of them for releasing it and I want to support them. I’m going to be totally honest. I don’t know if I’m actually going to use it. I’ve become such a visual studio

[00:31:49] Brett: [00:31:49] I was going to say, like, it’s, it’s hard to beat vs code for the kind of stuff you want to do.

[00:31:54] Christina: [00:31:54] It really is. It really is. And

[00:31:55] Brett: [00:31:55] can make it as shiny and pretty as you want to, but it’s gotta be that functional [00:32:00] to take over.

[00:32:01] Christina: [00:32:01] Well, that’s the issue. And, and especially, you know, when you’re, and, and that’s, that’s completely even separate from like the cost issue. Cause for me, I want to support my friends. I want to support ND software. I’m going to buy it whether I use it or not. Like that is not an issue for me. For some people it will be.

[00:32:18] I think the bigger thing though, is it’s like, if I’m going to make, if I’m going to switch my text editor, It needs to be significantly better. Like that’s why I was stuck with texts mate for so long. Is that there? It took me, frankly, until we as code and a couple of years of IES code for me to be like, okay, finally, this, this is better.

[00:32:37] And that was completely like, I never went to sublime. Like you went to sublime way, way, way back. And I was just, I was like, I never liked sublime. So I was just not going to bother, but

[00:32:49] Brett: [00:32:49] I’m still stuck on sublime. Like I, every time I use vs code, there’s something about it that delights me. Like there’s so many cool things about it, but I keep over configuring it [00:33:00] and then having to like erase my configuration and start from scratch. And then I. I tend to lose interest and go back to what I have very much working and sublime text.

[00:33:12] Um, it’s the S code is amazing. I’m not, I’m not, I can’t there’s I have no major complaints about it at all. Other than maybe it’s too configurable.

[00:33:22]Christina: [00:33:22] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do think it would be interesting, like, and this is well, what’s interesting. They come up with like various extension packs that kind of can turn it into various versions, you know, like there’s the Java, um, you know, extension pack. There’s one for

[00:33:34] Brett: [00:33:34] there’s a, there’s a sublime pack that like basically sets up your, uh, your key bindings and everything. So that it’s an easy transition.

[00:33:42] Christina: [00:33:42] That’s awesome. There there’s a Python like extension, which adds a lot of really good Python functionality they have now finally like enabled as part of the, the main version it’s still in preview, but they have finally enabled like a, a built in native setting sync. Which I think is really cool. And the extension that [00:34:00] would upload to adjust just before is awesome.

[00:34:02] But having it natively built in is, is cool, but what I’ve suggested to them and, and it’s, it’s, they’re, they’re looking at it. I don’t know if it’s going to go in this direction or not, but I would really love to be able to have distinct profiles that aren’t just about like work home, but also maybe different workspace type so that I could have different extensions, different set ups, maybe for different.

[00:34:23] Scenarios that I want, which I know kind of complaints with how their workspace thing works out. But sometimes you just want to, you know, have it synced across everything and, and have a different kind of way that it works. I don’t know. Um,

[00:34:38] Brett: [00:34:38] do that.

[00:34:40] Christina: [00:34:40] you can, but I would like to have it like tied in with, with the, the synchronized settings, um, rather than having to be like project based. Like, I would like to be able to basically open it up in a certain mode, if that makes sense. Like, I would like to be able to just launch, okay, I want this to be in, you know, markdown writing [00:35:00] mode, or I want this to be in like JavaScript mode, or I want this to be in some other sort of thing with certain number of configurations, uh, like extensions, you know, uh, theme, configurations, fonts, whatever.

[00:35:10] Um, That would be tied to something more than just like saying, okay, this is my work persona. This is my, you know, home machine, um, that kind of thing. So, um, but yeah, but it does kind of cross into some of the stuff that they already do. And the problem with that is it kind of, which is exactly what you said is that it does become then this whole issue of like, okay, this is too configurable.

[00:35:32] Right. Which is sort of a thing I’m trying to get around. I’m like, no, just give me like, like nicely preselected defaults, but.

[00:35:38] Brett: [00:35:38] Well, the thing I run into is eventually I have no idea what keystroke is causing what to happen. Like I have too many plugins enabled and I don’t know what’s conflicting with what and. No, why suddenly certain texts is being inserted when I typed certain characters. And, um, I think it’s cause I do too much too [00:36:00] fast.

[00:36:00] Christina: [00:36:00] Yeah, the, I run into that issue

[00:36:01] Brett: [00:36:01] plugin a day and got used to that plugin and fully understood that plugin before I installed another one, I probably be in better shape.

[00:36:10] Christina: [00:36:10] You would, and I run into the same exact problem that you do, where I do the same thing. Like I get super excited and then I’m like, what is even causing this issue? And then I’d have to disable them all and go through it again. And then I go through my own rabbit hole of spending all times time configuring my text editor and not actually doing the stuff that I needed to get done.

[00:36:28] So, yeah.

[00:36:29] Brett: [00:36:29] We got from bipolar disorder to text editors in three steps. That is, that is peak overtired right there.

[00:36:39] Christina: [00:36:39] Honestly, it really is. I was going to say, because our podcast is about three things. It’s about Taylor Swift, obviously it’s about the mental health and it’s about text editors,

[00:36:48] Brett: [00:36:48] Yeah. I mean, you could generalize that and say it’s about tech, but it really,

[00:36:53] Christina: [00:36:53] really tech

[00:36:54] Brett: [00:36:54] it does come down to text editors.

[00:36:57] Christina: [00:36:57] Honestly, every, every, I mean, look, everything is, is, [00:37:00] is, is VIM versus Emacs at the end of the day. And

[00:37:03] Brett: [00:37:03] Damn.

[00:37:05] Christina: [00:37:05] absolutely. I mean, Emacs is a disease. I’m sorry. I don’t, I mean, I see

[00:37:11] Brett: [00:37:11] third title option.

[00:37:13] Christina: [00:37:13] Ooh, that is a good one. I mean like, look, I’m impressed. Sometimes when I see videos of people using org mode and then I’m like, God, no,

[00:37:23] Brett: [00:37:23] Yup. I just, I think I never gave Emacs that much of a chance. VIM sunk in for me a lot faster. And I just was happy to leave. What little I knew about Emacs behind. I can’t, I can’t make a, a valid point for point comparison between the two.

[00:37:43] Christina: [00:37:43] No, and I don’t actually care because I don’t use either. But, um, I do like to troll

[00:37:49] Brett: [00:37:49] I see, I use, I use them all the time when I’m SSH into a remote machine I don’t want to download a file and edit it [00:38:00] and push it back. I just want to edit it right there on the server. So I’ve gotten really good at VIM for quick edits and. Even like w my blog is published via Jekyll and it, it, it builds and deploys on a machine in my basement.

[00:38:18] And, uh, if I want to make a quick edit to a post and then, and build it to go live again, it’s way faster for me to just SSH and make the edit. Make the get commit and build. Um, so I’m actually, yeah, I’ve gotten good with them pretty much because of SSH.

[00:38:39] Christina: [00:38:39] Yeah, see, that’s interesting. And then for me, like our mate was, has been, is, you know, I’ve used that since that’s been a thing. Um, so that’s like closing in a

[00:38:49] Brett: [00:38:49] actually forgot about army. Yeah.

[00:38:52] Christina: [00:38:52] And, and so that was just the, I used to always just install that on all servers, but now visual studio codes, remote [00:39:00] option. Okay. Is, ah, mazing like it’s so good.

[00:39:04] Yeah, it is so good. And it actually it’s, it’s even. It’s amazing on windows even. So in windows, one of my favorite things is, is WSL two, which is the windows subsystem for Linux, which basically gives you all of your Linux user land stuff. Um, uh, but, um, you still have access to all the gooey things of windows.

[00:39:24] And the first version was sort of slow from an IO perspective because there was. Some emulation going on and like some translating between calls. And so if you’re running, like get commands or you’re building stuff and, and Python, like it could be really slow now though, it’s running in, uh, like a, a virtual machine, but it’s a really small virtual machine and it’s super fast.

[00:39:48] So basically what’s happened is that even windows 10 home is basically using, if you, if you enable WSL to. Uh, both the host, OOS and [00:40:00] WSL too. We’ll both run in their own hypervisor VMs. Um, and, and so that’s like running that, like the, uh, you know, like the, um, like, you know, hardware level. Um, and, and so, um, the VM is super quick to, to, to boot up it’s super fast.

[00:40:18] And what this means is that you have basically near native access. To the underlying hardware, but also to do any of this stuff that you need to do in WSL too. And they’re working on GPU pass through right now to make that better. So you could do, you know, gooey stuff, but one of the things you can do with a remote extension for visual studio code is basically have that configure to use your WSL to backend.

[00:40:42] So if you’re in windows, you are accessing all of the, you know, uh, good new tools. From WSL to when you’re piling your code or doing anything else with it, you’re not using any of the versions of Python or PHP or Ruby or anything else that’s installed on [00:41:00] windows. You’re using the Linux versions. You’re using Linux commands and the terminal.

[00:41:05] And your files are being accessed, you know, in, in native kind of real time. And then you’re able to push them up to, uh, wherever you want to. And that’s, if you’re accessing local files, but if you’re doing this on a remote server, basically when you configure it, it’s, it’s the same sort of thing where it’s like I’m in my home editor.

[00:41:22] I’m seeing all the files that I would see from my server that I would ask cessation to you. I can SSH into it directly from the S code. I can make my edits and push it up and it will go it’ll handle all the key stuff. It’ll, it’ll do everything in real time. Exactly what I want it to. It’s amazing. The way that the tunneling works is super easy to set up.

[00:41:41] It’s fantastic. Like it’s. Unreal and WSL too keeps getting better. Like they just added in a preview version this week that they support accessing, um, Linux format of discs and things like within windows, Explorer and WSL [00:42:00] too. So you can Mount external desks. That you can then have access to both from windows explore or with NWSL too, even if it is on like, it’s a completely different disk, it doesn’t work with partitions yet.

[00:42:13] It’s just, it works with full desk, but you can Mount those now, which is pretty awesome.

[00:42:16] Brett: [00:42:16] Wow. I, uh, like have you ever played with net cat?

[00:42:22] Christina: [00:42:22] Yeah.

[00:42:23] Brett: [00:42:23] Like I, I spent time trying to recreate our mate using Netcat and, uh, SSH listeners, um, and just being able to. I edit locally and, and have it affect remotely. And it’s a mess. I, I I’m impressed by what you’re describing. Um,

[00:42:44] Christina: [00:42:44] no, I’m putting the link in our, um, uh, document to the remote overview because it is awesome. So for anybody who wants to do anything also, the way it works with containers is amazing. If you ever do anything with containers, you want to use the remote extension [00:43:00] because it really makes it easy to do.

[00:43:01] You can either connect by SSH, uh, using a VM. You can also work with like a sandbox. Like container-based like tool chain, if you want to Mount directly into a container. Um, and, and you can do that off of basically any container including kind of a remote machine and, and you can do it, you know, um, from, from WSL to it’s.

[00:43:20] It’s really good. Um, there’s also a new thing it’s in preview right now. Uh, it’s in private beta, but it’s going to be opening up more broadly called visual studio. Uh, excuse me. Uh, get hub code spaces, visual studio code spaces is being deprecated and being rolled into get hub code spaces. And what this is, is it’s visual studio code in the browser.

[00:43:38] But in this case, it is something that you can kick off directly from a GitHub repo. And it’ll basically spin up an instance in the cloud of visual studio code that you can access in the browser, or if you want to, to in, in the native app. Yeah. But the cool thing is, is that it, it uses containers. So if you wanted, for instance to say, okay, It will basically create, you know, like [00:44:00] it’s your VM or like, or instance of your project, it’ll basically say, okay, I’m going to spin up these containers in these situations and this infrastructure.

[00:44:08] That I have access to, I don’t have to download everything on my own. I don’t have to worry about configuring my own system to match what my server is. I can just have this instance that’s running identically and I can access it either in my web browser. And this also means on the iPad, or if I want to use the remote extension, I can access that cloud instance in my like full fledged, um, you know, application.

[00:44:34] But. Everything I’m accessing is, is going through like that, that cloud instance. And I’m just like, I’m. I was just like, if it were my own machine.

[00:44:44] Brett: [00:44:44] That’s some crazy shit, Christina.

[00:44:46] Christina: [00:44:46] Yeah. It’s pretty awesome. Sorry to, to nerd out about that, but this is, this is the stuff that I’m, but I get to see that we work on, but is like some of the most exciting stuff.

[00:44:54] Brett: [00:44:54] You are in the right job for you.

[00:44:56]Christina: [00:44:56] Totally.

[00:44:57] Brett: [00:44:57] Um, since we’re, since we’re getting super [00:45:00] nerdy, what’s your cable situation? Like my two I’m I’m looking for cable management tips.

[00:45:09] Christina: [00:45:09] Uh, I wish I could help you.

[00:45:12] Brett: [00:45:12] I have a tip. Um, I can’t remember what they’re called now. Uh, they’re one ties or something like that. They’re the, it’s this role you get of little Velcro cable wraps and it comes in a great big, like, uh, it’s like a roll of tape and you just peel off. Quick, I w whatever they’re called, there’ll be in the show notes.

[00:45:36] If you need what I’m about to describe, uh, check the show notes, but you can, with one hand you can peel off, uh, uh, like I think about eight inches of, uh, thin Velcro that you can wrap real quick around whatever. And it’s easy enough to tear them. If you only need like four inches to get around a smaller cable bundle, uh, you can just grab it with your [00:46:00] teeth and.

[00:46:00] Tara, you don’t need scissors or anything. Um, they’re really cool, but I still, yeah, no. I just basically have a bunch of neatly tied cables in a pile. I want, like, I want, I’ve seen these systems with like channel systems where. All the cables are routed through neat, tidy little tubes. And I just don’t understand how that works because all of my devices are in different places on my desk.

[00:46:28] So the cables come from different directions. How do people do this?

[00:46:33] Christina: [00:46:33] So I just got one of those uplift desks and, um, it did come with a lot of cable management stuff and I’m still not completely optimized, but it did come with one of those tubes that is really long that you can kind of, you know, migrate things through. And then it has like a, um, like a wire management tray that, um, you can store a lot of your cables in, but also your power adapters to kind of get things out of the way.

[00:46:58] Uh, and then [00:47:00] the way that the desk works is that underneath it, you can either connect either with Velcro or with, you know, other types of things. Like there are ways that you can like cable manage and connect things up through kind of the bottom to hide. So the, um, that’s what I’m, I’m kind of, kind of trying to look at it as like how I can do it the best on my desk, but I’m also kind of going to the place where I’m like, all right, a lot of this is just going to be about hiding it and probably not actually. You know,

[00:47:29] Brett: [00:47:29] I’m okay. I’d be okay. I’d be okay with hiding it. Except I do run into that thing where I need to unplug one thing and it takes me five minutes just to trace its cable back to like the, the power or the, uh, surge protector. And then I have to untangle it from a thousand other cables.

[00:47:48] Christina: [00:47:48] Yeah. And this is why I’m what I’m thinking about doing. Cause the, the. Fuel management kit that I bought with the desk or whatever came with a surge protector. And it’s fine. It’s just basic. But what I’m actually thinking of doing is getting one, [00:48:00] either from uplift or from another company, and then mounting it under the bottom of the desk so that, um, I can kind of plug things in quickly and unplug things in and like focus on that.

[00:48:13] Being the stuff that I would frequently plug and unplug. And then like, let the other stuff just kind of be in that wire, you know, because I’m like, all right, I know I’m not going to unplug this, you know, but if it’s, but if it’s like, right, but if it’s like a hard drive or, you know, like, uh, um, A microphone or something that gets moved around a light, you know, like that’s the first like, okay.

[00:48:35] That might need to be unplugged re plugged in, but there’s some things I’m like, this is never moving. Um, and so that, that at least like my desk, I know at my office, our IP, uh, uh, on campus, who knows if we’ll ever see that again. Um, I sure hope so that, um, Desk did have like a really nice mounted search protector underneath the desk, which was bad-ass [00:49:00] because that, let me plug in like my doc and you know, other stuff.

[00:49:04] And it’s like, okay, I might, there might be cables from my doc that get unplugged, but the doc itself has never going to get unplugged. Like that’s always going to be plugged in. And like, my monitors are going to be plugged in and there was like enough space between them that it wouldn’t be hard to find stuff.

[00:49:18] So.

[00:49:19] Brett: [00:49:19] think I need, if I’m going to actually get this cable situation under control, I need more space. I feel like the secret to not having all of your cables in a big pile is to have room to spread them out.

[00:49:31] Christina: [00:49:31] no, I think so. I think this is, this is why I got the desk that takes up my entire office

[00:49:35] Brett: [00:49:35] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:37] Christina: [00:49:37] and I did it. It’s a 72 by 30. So it’s,

[00:49:41] Brett: [00:49:41] mine has a treadmill, which also takes up a lot of space.

[00:49:44] Christina: [00:49:44] See, this is the problem, right? Yeah. Is it, you’ve got the treadmill thing, which is important, but,

[00:49:49] Brett: [00:49:49] Is it though?

[00:49:50] Christina: [00:49:50] I mean, I would say no, but then I don’t care about things like exercise.

[00:49:55] Oh, have I told you about my chair drama?

[00:49:58] Brett: [00:49:58] No. Well, [00:50:00] maybe tell me, tell me, and I’ll tell you if you already told me or

[00:50:04] Christina: [00:50:04] Okay. So I ordered a $1,500 chair and, um, I, uh, Okay. Okay. They are at least taking care of this, but I ordered a $1,500 chair and it arrived broken

[00:50:16] Brett: [00:50:16] Oh, is this that gaming one from, uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. You brought this chair up before. I don’t remember hearing it was broken.

[00:50:24] Christina: [00:50:24] Yeah. No, I don’t think you knew. So it is, it is, uh, they are dealing with the, with the return. Um, they said that, um, uh, basically, uh, that they will be. Be getting back to me. Um, so they will be working on that to make sure that, that I will get some sort of replacement, but I haven’t heard anything other than I will be receiving something about when I will get a replacement, but it had arrived, broken.

[00:50:51] And, uh, I was on the phone with, I was on hold and never actually got in touch with the human being. But I was on hold for about three hours one day to try to [00:51:00] get in touch with someone could not. Um, I’ve had two different emails, indications, one email was more responsive than the other. And then the one that was more responsive, they were like, Oh, we just realized there was another thing already emotion, please refer to that email.

[00:51:12] I’m like, but you were so much nicer or something faster helped me. So I’m trying to figure that out. And of course I’ve already gotten rid of the box, so I’m going to have to wait for them to replace the box. This chair is massive, but yeah, pretty disappointing to get a chair where the lack of it is, is there’s like supposed to be a thing where it’s attached and like, it was.

[00:51:31] Just clear as days snapped off. And this is apparently a pretty common problem that they have. Um, and you know, they’ll be able to fix it. Um, so many new ones they’ll be able to fix it and resell it, whatever, but pretty disappointing when you wait awhile, get your chair and then it’s broken

[00:51:48] Brett: [00:51:48] you were excited about that.

[00:51:49] Christina: [00:51:49] I was, and then you

[00:51:50] Brett: [00:51:50] you texted me as you were ordering it.

[00:51:53] Christina: [00:51:53] I did, I was so excited. And then, and then, and then, you know, you get it and then you’re like, okay, it’s broken. [00:52:00] And don’t know when you’re going to get your work placement. And I mean, I know they’ll take care of me and it’s, it’s usable until then, but it’s still frustrating.

[00:52:08] Brett: [00:52:08] yeah, yeah. That sucks. I’m sorry.

[00:52:11] Christina: [00:52:11] That’s okay. It’s fine. It’s it’s all this computer stuff in general. Uh, there’s an issue with the iMac as well with all the IMAX that use my video card, where there is a weird graphical glitch. There’s like a 50 page thread on Mac rumors about it, and Apple’s aware. Who knows when it will be taken care of my personal feeling on it is that I don’t see it cause I have an extra monitor hooked up, so I’m fine.

[00:52:34] Um, but it is frustrating when you spend close to $5,000 on a computer and then it’s not perfect. But, um, an Apple is like been in contact with people and getting their, their logs and stuff. It seems pretty likely that this is some sort of driver glitch with the AMD 5,700 XT and a Catalina. Cause it doesn’t happen in windows.

[00:52:55] It doesn’t happen when you have an external monitor connected. It’s this weird thing, but [00:53:00] people are understandably really, really pissed. And, but I’m kind of in this weird place where I’m like, look, if they won’t fix it, then I have no problem taking one for the team and going Karen on like everybody’s ass and like getting this taken care of.

[00:53:14] But. Like, I don’t know what people want them to do. Like you can’t order a replacement. It seems pretty clear that this is not a hardware thing as a software thing, because every single computer has this. If it does turn out to be a hardware thing, okay. We’ll hold them accountable and have some sort of replacement plan that, you know, well, before it’s on them, but it’s like, I would have no problem telling somebody, okay.

[00:53:36] If this is going to bother you do not order this computer with this graphics card. Like I have no problem saying hold off. Right. But if you already have one, this, this weird thing where I feel like I’m in this, this bizarre situation where like me, who’s the most uptight and like, I want to speak to your manager, if things aren’t perfect person, like I’m remarkably blahzay about it because I’m kind of [00:54:00] like, well, it’s either going to get fixed or it’s not, I have AppleCare and maybe this trust is unfounded, but I do trust them that they’re going to take care of me one way or another.

[00:54:10] Like, and if they’re not American express sure is so, Oh shit. Oh shit. I didn’t pay with American express. I paid with Apple card. Okay. Well, all right. Well, Well, Goldman Sachs, you know what I mean? Like there, there will be, there will be something that will be, you know, taken care of. But I do understand, you know, I find myself going, I, I mentioned this on Twitter that I find myself becoming more and more like John Siracusa all the time.

[00:54:39] And, um, this is the sort of thing that would drive John Siracusa insane. But since I don’t see it. And even if though I’m aware of it, I don’t love it. I’m kind of like, all right, I’m just going to like, let this go. As, as far as, you know, I can, until it, if, if, if they, if they try to kind of seem like we’re not going to fix this [00:55:00] and we’re going to kind of let you suffer, that’s when you have hell to pay.

[00:55:03] But until then, I’m like, they can’t do this overnight. Like this isn’t going to be fixed, you know, immediately I’m I’m okay with just like waiting, which maybe that’s growth.

[00:55:15] Brett: [00:55:15] my rabbi has a new iMac. That, uh, is having USB issues like weird undiagnosable USB issues where like power clicks on and clicks off or hard drives, operate, but frequently get like, if he is backing up to time machine it’ll frequent errors that seem like they can be traced back to USB glitches and. It doesn’t seem to be a specific port and it just, all this weirdness going on that all centers around USB and he seems reticent to contact support.

[00:55:57] So he keeps contacting me, [00:56:00] um, as a, as a good Jew, I do my best to help my rabbi. He’s not really my, he he’s a rabbi that I really like. So I guess that makes him mind. Right?

[00:56:15] Christina: [00:56:15] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know if you can call yourself a good

[00:56:18] Brett: [00:56:18] I cannot, although he tells me that in his, in his, uh, reform Judaism congregation, they have atheists.

[00:56:27] Christina: [00:56:27] Oh, that’s actually pretty

[00:56:28] Brett: [00:56:28] It is pretty awesome. Like it is not. The reform Judaism is about, uh, I don’t want to put words in his mouth. There’s a, his interview with me for systematic is coming out. Uh, by the time this goes live, it’ll be out tomorrow.

[00:56:46] So if you want to hear from rabbi Eric lender, check out systematic tomorrow. Um, systematic pod.com. What do you want to promote?

[00:56:55] Christina: [00:56:55] Uh, I want to promote rockets. On a relay FM, um, [00:57:00] relay.fm/or really fm.com/rocket. Um, we are getting close on 300 episodes, which is amazing. And we’re going to have, uh, a big thing with that, which will encompass us mostly me eating really terrible flavored candy corn, um, out of punishment because I didn’t clean my office. Uh, although I might be able to like lose some, um, some candy corns that I have to eat, but yeah. Um, I’m, I’m, uh, rock, rock, rock, rock. And I can’t believe we’ve been doing it as long as we’ve been doing it. Um, and you and I we’ve actually been doing over tired longer than I’ve been doing rocket, but rocket has been consistent. so, you know, that’s, that’s how that works, but no, but.

[00:57:46] Brett: [00:57:46] I’ve been doing systematics since like 2012, maybe. Yeah. It’s been like eight years. I only have 230 some episodes though.

[00:57:58] Christina: [00:57:58] Yeah, no, we’ve been, [00:58:00] this rocket is, is been like kind of my most consistent podcast ever in the sense that it’s like, yeah. You know what I’ve been, we’ve been doing it every week. I think we’ve had a couple of weeks off, but very few, we started in January of 2015. And, um, yeah, so I’m excited about that, but I’m excited to listen to the systematic with, with your rabbi.

[00:58:23] He should just call Apple though. How long ago did he buy the iMac? Cause it sounds like there’s something maybe hardware going on.

[00:58:28] Brett: [00:58:28] I don’t remember. We’ll have to ask him. I can text him right now. We, we text all the time.

[00:58:36] Christina: [00:58:36] Yeah. Cause I mean,

[00:58:37] Brett: [00:58:37] I have a

[00:58:38] Christina: [00:58:38] Yeah, I love that you have a rabbi, but I mean, I’m just saying like, I mean, you know, uh, I do understand, I think you and I are both in those situations where we become a factor of tech support and also does this happen to you because I’m defacto tech support everyone else. I really do hate contacting actual tech support.

[00:58:57] Brett: [00:58:57] Um, I, yeah, no, I never [00:59:00] contact tech support. I, I, I don’t know if it’s because of. Being everyone else’s tech support. I just, I don’t like doing it. I also don’t like it. When people contact me, I feel like you probably more often have the answers for people than I do. Uh, plus you can answer both windows and Mac questions and I haven’t used windows since the early two thousands and would be

[00:59:24] Christina: [00:59:24] Oh, I can’t answer a window’s questions, please. All I can do is tweet about, about it and usually get somebody who knows an answer. I can’t answer windows questions please. Um,

[00:59:35] Brett: [00:59:35] you have, you have, uh, you have the Twitter, the Twitter Hivemind at your disposal.

[00:59:41] Christina: [00:59:41] This is actually very true, which is very helpful. The only problem with, I will say this, and this is actually okay. This is a weird thing. This is very interesting. I hadn’t thought about this until now. So the Twitter hive mind when I ask a window’s question is much less mansplaining than the Mac. Then if I ask them that question.

[00:59:59] Brett: [00:59:59] Really [01:00:00] that’s that’s seems counterintuitive to me.

[01:00:03] Christina: [01:00:03] Uh, same actually complete same.

[01:00:06] Brett: [01:00:06] I definitely think of the Mac as the female in the windows, Mac, uh, pairing

[01:00:13] Christina: [01:00:13] I would, I would agree with you on that, but yet if I ask a question for about iOS or Mac OS and I’m coming at this from a place of being, like, the only reason I’m asking is because this is weird. I get. All of the mansplaining reset, your P Ram reset your, you know, this and that. And I’m like, you’re in V Ram.

[01:00:31] I’m like, and I’m like, you know, I’m like, seriously, shut up. This is a weird thing. Like this is, this is not a unique thing that I’m trying to tell you. Obviously I know all these basic steps. I’m saying, if this has happened in a weird way, what’s going on and all I will get is like the most mansplaining answers.

[01:00:47] And if it’s a windows thing, even if it’s something like really weird with SharePoint or something, Which, you know, God, they talk with people who do like the, the really like unloved work people who are [01:01:00] SharePoint admins, because that software is an abomination yet it is responsible for so much of so much enterprise stuff.

[01:01:06] And man, I have nothing but respect for those people. We don’t, we don’t like love them enough, but, but if I ask questions about that, I get really good. Answers that aren’t making assumptions, that I’m an idiot. Like it’s a really weird thing where the assumption is not your moron and you don’t know anything and you haven’t tried stuff.

[01:01:25] It’s like, huh, that’s interesting. Have you looked at this or this? You know what I mean? Like it’s not.

[01:01:31] Brett: [01:01:31] I think that might be part of the reason I don’t call tech support is because I always have to start the conversation at that point where they assume I’m an idiot. The, at the, have you tried rebooting and I like asking questions in places where people know. They give me the respect that if I haven’t figured this out yet, it means I’ve tried all of the obvious stuff and there’s a foundation that they can start with.

[01:01:58] And yeah, it drives me nuts [01:02:00] when I feel like I have to explain to people that I do know what I’m doing.

[01:02:05] Christina: [01:02:05] Yes. You’re you’re, you’re exactly correct. And it’s so funny. Um, I actually ran into that recently. Not that recently, I guess, a couple of months ago with, um, an Apple, um, uh, care thing, because I needed to get my iPad replaced because the battery was not lasting. It was hot. It had actually been an issue since got the iPad to be totally honest.

[01:02:24] I noticed it basically the week I got the iPad pro and it’s a 2018. I noticed basically the week I got it, that it was. Probably not performing the way that it should have been. It was getting really hot and the battery would, would drain really quickly. And, um, I just kind of let it go cause it wasn’t that big of a deal.

[01:02:41] And then finally it was getting to the point, especially as I’m using my iPad pro more and more than I’m like, right. I need to just get this replaced. I have Apple care for a reason. Just get those replaced. And, um, and it was getting really, really hot all the time. Um, even when nothing was running and like you, you know, you could just see the battery just draining.

[01:02:59] So I [01:03:00] call Apple care because I can’t go into the stores and, um, They’re nice enough, but she tries to kind of walk me through some troubleshooting processes and she tries to walk me through troubleshooting process where she’s like, well, can you enable the low battery mode? And I’m like, but this is an iPad.

[01:03:17] And she’s like, right. And like, there’s not a low battery. There’s not a low battery mode on, on, on iPad iOS. And like, she didn’t know that. And, and I’m like, okay, you know, I finally, I

[01:03:29] Brett: [01:03:29] in my binder.

[01:03:31] Christina: [01:03:31] Exactly. And I’m like, Oh my God, like, yeah, no, this is, this is not a thing. And an iPad OSTP. And, and I, you know, had to kind of talk a little more and I was like, look, I’m telling you, I can tell what this is like, this the seems I think finally, I think she just got frustrated cause she was like, well, we’ll just send you replacement.

[01:03:46] I was like, thank you. That’s all I wanted. So I mailed off, you know, the, the replacement and um, they sent me the new one. I sent off the old one. Fine. Um, but yeah, that’s like kind of reminded me where I’m like, yeah, I’m calling these [01:04:00] places. And like you like w there was a time when I used to have to call tech support more frequently, where I would almost immediately always ask for like a level two tech.

[01:04:08] I would almost immediately just be like, look. You need to, I just need to speak to a supervisor. I just need to go to a level two level three person when I would call for, I learned that trick ironically from Comcast, because I remember, I remember I was having cable modem issues and they were again, like treating me, like I was an idiot and it was actually turned out to be a much more significant like technical problem with the lines itself.

[01:04:29] And it was, um, the tech who was finally like, cause I was getting the run around. I was really frustrated and I was like 19 or 20. And. And he was like, okay, so in the future, you know, because this is this, he was like, you’re right. This is the sort of thing you need to come to me for. He was like, just ask for a level two or a level three tech.

[01:04:47] And that’s how you can, you can bypass all of the, have you, have you plugged in your cable modem? You know, have you reset your router? Have you done that? And I’m like, and I’m like, no, this is a line issue. This is not like a me issue. [01:05:00] Like I have other things on my network that are running. This is, this is not the problem.

[01:05:05] Um, so. Sometimes that’ll work, sometimes it won’t, but yeah, that is always the most frustrating thing. When you have to prove your worth. Now, fortunately being a woman on the internet breasts, uh, I have a lifetime of history in having to assert myself. I had to say, no, no, I’m not a moron actually. Um, when I,

[01:05:28] Brett: [01:05:28] I’ve watched this phenomenon. I constantly am thankful. I’m not a woman on the internet. Uh, and also I feel awful for so many of the women that I see having daily shit, they have to go through. That wouldn’t happen if they just changed their avatar to a guy and changed their name to a guy name,

[01:05:49] Christina: [01:05:49] I know if I went by Chris instead of Christina, my life be so much easier. No, it’s um, When I was a journalist as like my full time career, when I would talk [01:06:00] to technical people, I got into this habit that I, you know, try to kind of bet towards the last few years I tried to kind of back off on because I felt really defensive about it.

[01:06:11] But early on, one of the things I felt like I had to do almost immediately was if I was interviewing somebody to get about some sort of technical thing was, was assert my. Technical skill level within my first or second question, just so they would treat me as like, not just a dumb reporter. Um, and, and I can understand honestly, why they would, I don’t even know how much of that was a gender thing.

[01:06:38] I think there’s a subconscious gender part of that, but I, that I don’t even completely blame people who are doing that on, because it’s like you talk to a lot of people who are not going to be at that level. But for me, it was always really important to kind of like, I would need to almost like make the assertion and be like, no, I, I’m not an idiot.

[01:06:57] I know what we’re talking about.

[01:07:00] [01:06:59] Brett: [01:06:59] Yeah, I feel like I have to do that in some situations. And I can imagine what it would be like to pretty much always have to do that to never, to never have the, uh, starting assumption that you know, what you’re doing.

[01:07:15] Christina: [01:07:15] yeah, no,

[01:07:15] Brett: [01:07:15] like I get, I feel like people assume way too often that I know what I’m doing.

[01:07:19]Christina: [01:07:19] Yeah, no, I think you’re, you, you, you perfectly summed it up at the starting this. You never had the starting assumption that you know what you’re doing ever.

[01:07:27] Brett: [01:07:27] So check this out. Um, I have wrap it up music. This is the, uh, this is the, you don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here. Music.

[01:07:38] Christina: [01:07:38] Let’s hear this.

[01:07:39] Brett: [01:07:39] It’s playing right now. It’s soft so that we can keep talking over it.

[01:07:43] Christina: [01:07:43] I love it. I love it. This is, this is, this is a good beat. I’m a fan of this.

[01:07:47] Brett: [01:07:47] a, it’s got a little Congo action. Yeah. Um, so this is like, this is what we play as we, as we wrap up and we say what we’re going to have for homework. Cause we didn’t do any homework [01:08:00] this week. We’re supposed to talk about reality bites, which I feel at the moment has passed on. Um,

[01:08:06] Christina: [01:08:06] Yeah. I feel like the moment has passed on that. Although, did you get invited to the Plex that I told James to invite you

[01:08:11] Brett: [01:08:11] I stopped looking for invites. I will, I will check tonight. Um, but I didn’t get any notification of an invite.

[01:08:19] Christina: [01:08:19] Oh, real quick, because the, this, this all did that. Um, he created this after we recorded our episode, but, uh, um, Christina Warren, um, what’s the website. Uh, he basically created a, a

[01:08:36] Brett: [01:08:36] is a bad influence or something like

[01:08:38] Christina: [01:08:38] Yes. As a bad influence.com. Um, yes, Christina Warren is a bad influence.com. If you go there and we will have this in the show notes, it is, it is a queen moose, uh, chemo.

[01:08:49] However, however, the hell you stay at session of a Hannah Montana Linux that anybody can play for an access in the browser. [01:09:00] So, James, thank you very, very much for that. Uh, both the URL and the website are amazing, and that is, uh, Maybe one of my favorite things that anybody has ever created to troll me ever.

[01:09:12] Brett: [01:09:12] I can’t believe it took you this long into the show to give that shout out.

[01:09:17] Christina: [01:09:17] I can’t either. I think I blame it on the fact that I was very tired when we recorded this episode and I’d already delayed it by three hours. So that’s what I’m putting that on in classic overtired fashion.

[01:09:28] Brett: [01:09:28] All right. Well, um, I, I would say that I would like next week, I think I would like to talk about the new Hulu show woke.

[01:09:39] Christina: [01:09:39] Okay. I will start watching

[01:09:40] Brett: [01:09:40] Give it a couple episodes. The first one. Like, it’s hard to tell where it’s going with just the first episode. So you need two episodes to get an understanding of the premise itself. So watch two, and then if you feel like watching more, feel free, but I need to watch some more [01:10:00] myself before.

[01:10:00] I’m absolutely sure that it’s worth talking about. Uh, but right now I’m super intrigued by it.

[01:10:05] Christina: [01:10:05] Okay. I will check that out. And, um, we, we didn’t talk about the, the beanie Feldstein, um, movie that I rented, um, that you recommended to me, but that did remind me of, have you seen Booksmart? Okay. You need to watch book-smart, which, uh, was one of my favorite movies

[01:10:24] Brett: [01:10:24] could not convince my girlfriend to watch it with me, so I have to watch it. Yeah,

[01:10:29] Christina: [01:10:29] She might are actually, I think she’d really like it

[01:10:32] Brett: [01:10:32] I will. I will tell her, you said so.

[01:10:35] Christina: [01:10:35] it’s really, really, really good. And Olivia Wilde directed it and Olivia Wilde is a hell of a director. She actually has just been announced that she’s going to be directing the next Spiderman film. Um, which is pretty awesome. And, um, yeah, but, uh, but no, but Booksmart is really good, but it made me think of that since, um, uh, beanie Feldstein is in the other movie that you recommended, um, that, [01:11:00] uh, that I watch.

[01:11:02] Brett: [01:11:02] Yeah. W w we need them. Okay. Next time we’re having a movie section for

[01:11:06] Christina: [01:11:06] All right. We’re having, we’re having a movie section for sure. All right. So I will watch woke

[01:11:10] Brett: [01:11:10] is this music making you tense?

[01:11:13] Christina: [01:11:13] a little

[01:11:13] Brett: [01:11:13] Yeah, me too. I think that was the whole point though, is supposed to like, convince us to wrap up.

[01:11:19] Christina: [01:11:19] Yeah. I mean, I think we keep it, but I don’t know when you just turned it off, but yeah. Um, okay, so, so next episode, we will have like a whole section on movies. I will watch woke. You will watch books smart and, uh, yeah. Okay.

[01:11:34] Brett: [01:11:34] Yeah. Book-smart alright. I got it. I got my homework. I’m good. All right.

[01:11:40] Christina: [01:11:40] All right, Brett. All right, well, take care of yourself. Um, you know, hope that everything can kind of come back more to normal

[01:11:46] Brett: [01:11:46] Yeah, I’m about to I’m. Uh, I just slept last night. Uh, so the, the manic episode is over, but I’m about to very likely head into depression for a few days here. So

[01:11:58] Christina: [01:11:58] Whew. [01:12:00] All right. I’m wishing you luck, but at least you got your meds, right? For your, your ADHD stuff. All right. That’s good. At least. Cause there’d be nothing worse than having the depression and no meds.

[01:12:08] Brett: [01:12:08] Yes, that that those, those days are awful. Those are not get out of bed days.

[01:12:12] Christina: [01:12:12] Yeah. Agreed to have been there. Not recommended, so. All right. Well, Brett, get some sleep. Take care of yourself.

[01:12:21] Brett: [01:12:21] Get some sleep, Christina.

[01:12:24] Christina: [01:12:24] Yeah.