Overtired 335

[00:00:00] Christina:

[00:00:02] Christina: Welcome back, everyone. It’s me, Christina Warren. You’re listening to Overtired. Yeah, that’s right. I’m back. We’re actually doing an Overtired episode with all three of us, which means I’m here with Brett Terpstra and Jeff Severns Gunsell. Hello, boys. How are you?

[00:00:19] Jeff: Man, one of those people is me.

[00:00:21] Brett: it’s been like a month since people have heard your voice.

[00:00:24] Christina: I know. I know. And it’s been like a month since I’ve heard either of your voices. So, and it feels like even longer, uh, because of the various things that… I’ve been going through this summer, so

[00:00:34] Mental Health Corner, Part I

[00:00:34] Brett: Feels like, feels like we had a summer vacation.

[00:00:37] Christina: It does, it does. And, and uh, maybe we should do like a little bit of a round robin on that.

[00:00:42] Christina: Like, what did you do on your summer vacation

[00:00:44] Jeff: it’s funny, my,

[00:00:45] Christina: health corner?

[00:00:45] Jeff: my kids go back to school on Tuesday, so it feels very

[00:00:48] Christina: because uh, Labor Day,

[00:00:49] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:00:51] Brett: Um, yeah, let’s, let’s do that. Let’s, uh, let’s kick off a mental health corner that includes what did you do this summer? [00:01:00] Which for some of us might be the last two weeks, but, uh, uh, Jeff, do you want to start?

[00:01:06] Jeff: Yeah, actually, mine is directly, it’s not exactly what did I do this summer, but for my oldest son who’s going into senior year, it was the last summer break of, you know, potentially him living in our home. And, uh.

[00:01:20] Christina: Last one is a family unit.

[00:01:21] Jeff: Yeah, and, and that’s, that hits in a new way or in a new context like all the time and it’s really hard for me right now, like, we are a super tight family and like loose family, but like tight, like we joke with each other, we have good shared bits, we, I think I would say that both of our sons have like a real sense of freedom to bring up any kind of topic and not worry about us freaking out and, um, And we have a dynamic between the four of us.

[00:01:50] Jeff: My youngest is, um, is 14. And it’s a balance, right? Like, it’s a balance of these four personalities that have, like, developed even as, you know, we’ve developed [00:02:00] as parents, right? Like, and, and we’re at a point that we love, like, we don’t, neither, we were talking about this this morning, I see people with babies, and even though I’m, like, pre grieving my oldest son leaving, I Do not at all look at people with babies and go like, Oh, if only I could turn the clock back.

[00:02:15] Jeff: Because like, I don’t want to, I loved, I loved being a parent at every single stage, being a father or dad or whatever at every single stage. But there, there’s never been a point when I didn’t love the current stage enough that I didn’t wish for another stage. I wished for when they were more snuggly, for sure.

[00:02:32] Jeff: They might, like, come into our bed or something, that’d be super weird now, so it doesn’t make any sense to wish for it now, um, but uh, but yeah, like, I’m, you know, he’s looking at schools out of state, um, and that, and I get that, man, I get it, I fuckin shot off like a rocket when I almost finished high school and it was over, um, and uh, so I understand, you know, like, that’s just like a part of…

[00:02:57] Jeff: In our culture, at least, like, definitely in American [00:03:00] culture, that’s a part, that’s a ritual of growing up, is you go away, way away, um, and he’s looking at that, he’s also looking at schools closer, but like, um, my actual, like, my mental health corner topic today was exactly this, it’s like, it’s like trying to get out of the trap of pre grieving something that hasn’t happened yet, even though…

[00:03:21] Jeff: It’s not like it’s, there’s that thing of like, don’t, don’t wallow in something that may not happen. Like this is definitely happening. Um, and, and it’s so great for him because it feels like an end for us, but it’s like the beginning of everything for him. And I, I have such a different perspective now on.

[00:03:42] Jeff: For instance, the way that when I was like 22, I went to war zones. Like, I now know that 22, a child who’s 22 is not going to feel like an old child, right? Like, he’ll definitely feel like someone who’s growing into adulthood, whatever. But like, I now don’t understand how my parents… Stood [00:04:00] that. Um, so anyway, like, I was dealing with this in therapy this week.

[00:04:03] Jeff: I was like, I don’t want to spend the next year getting sad every time I think about him leaving, or every time he talks about being excited about going to school in Los Angeles if he gets accepted and stuff like that. Like, I don’t want that to be weighed down or burdened by my own, like, kind of sorrow, because I know that he’ll have some too, and, and it doesn’t help us, like, and it doesn’t…

[00:04:23] Jeff: And it takes me away from really just continuing to enjoy what I know will be this last year with him. And, uh, and then also just the, this isn’t about grieving, but this is my last bit about this, is also just realize that my 14 year old, like, we’ll have three years of him in the house where we’re a three person family, like, practically in the house, right?

[00:04:46] Jeff: Definitely a four person family. Um, And I, I only realized that recently, and I, I’m like, I have no idea what that dynamic’s gonna be like. He’s gonna lose, he, he and his brother are so close, they’ve never, I’ve never [00:05:00] seen them fight, I’ve never heard them fight. And no matter what we do, if they’re with us, they are behind us, walking wherever we’re walking, just like, bullshitting with each other.

[00:05:10] Jeff: And, and so he’s also gonna lose, like, And, and like, yeah, like a role model, for sure. Um, and so I’m just in this space of like, holy shit, I didn’t realize how Destabilizing, this would be inside me, even a year before it happens, and so I’m really trying to work on not wallowing in grieving something that hasn’t happened.

[00:05:32] Jeff: Especially when the grieving exists because I love what we have. So it’s like, just be there, be there!

[00:05:41] Christina: be there, but I think it’s also okay for you to acknowledge that you’re going to be grieving and there’s going to be a loss and to be going through those emotions proactively so that it doesn’t just hit you in May. You know, or, or, or even worse, like next August. Like next August is gonna be really hard, but you don’t want to only start dealing with it then.

[00:05:58] Christina: I think it’s smart for you to be [00:06:00] dealing with it now. I think what’s exciting though for your youngest son, like as close as he is with his brother, and there will be that loss and like that, you know, fear and whatnot. But this is also gonna be an opportunity for him to figure out who he is without his older brother.

[00:06:10] Jeff: exactly. Yeah, I’m excited for that. I think the part, you’re right about kind of preparing and that’s definitely a thing. The part that seems untenable is that I’ve had a couple weeks of like, I just practically start crying whenever I think about it indefinitely if I’m talking about it. And so I’m like, okay, that’s too intense right now.

[00:06:30] Jeff: I need to recognize what that is and like, be like, that’s actually amazing. Um, but then like, like you said, like, figure out a way of kind of holding the reality but not Uh, being sort of just stricken with intense emotion every time I think about it, you know? Because here’s the thing, if he goes to some college somewhere far away, and he calls us after week one, and then also month one and month two, and he’s like, I am so happy here.

[00:06:55] Jeff: I will not feel that sadness. I will just be glad that he’s happy. Now, if [00:07:00] he’s super miserable, that’s its own thing, but I’m definitely not thinking about that. That’s a bridge I’ll cross another time. So anyway, that’s my, that’s my

[00:07:07] Brett: Have you, have you studied, uh, attachment theory at all?

[00:07:11] Jeff: Yeah, I mean, I’ve, insomuch as I have attachment issues,

[00:07:16] Brett: Yeah, same, same. You’re not alone. Um, do you, it sounds like you actually have a pretty secure attachment to him. Um, it doesn’t seem like an anxious attachment.

[00:07:28] Jeff: and vice versa, I think not to speak for him, but I really think that’s the case. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s good. That’s a nice, that’s a nice element to bring in. It’s like, my therapist kind of got to that too. It’s like, you guys have a great relationship. That’s Yeah. Thanks. That’s a lot more than you may realize right

[00:07:44] Brett: yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:07:47] Jeff: Yeah. Anyway, the other thing is though, he, both of our boys, somehow we got them like a few years ago to each have a post dinner responsibility. One, one cleans up and puts away all the food and wipes the counters down. The other [00:08:00] one loads the dishwasher, although the other one is 17 and does that at one in the morning.

[00:08:04] Jeff: Um,

[00:08:04] Christina: Hey, but he still gets it done.

[00:08:05] Jeff: but yeah, my wife and I were just like, we’re going to

[00:08:08] Christina: We’re gonna have to, we’re gonna have to clean up. Ha!

[00:08:13] Brett: You’re losing your free labor.

[00:08:15] Jeff: the more selfish, less emotional, uh, uh, like, pre regret. So anyway, that’s me.

[00:08:20] Brett: That’s just an adjustment. That’s not an emotional, an emotional loss. Um, Christina, do you want a Rochambeau for who goes next?

[00:08:30] Jeff: Ooh, Rochambeau.

[00:08:30] Christina: Uh, yeah.

[00:08:33] Brett: All right, you ready? One, two, on three. One, two,

[00:08:37] Christina: two, three.

[00:08:38] Brett: god damn it. I, we both drew, we both had scissors. All right, try again. One, two, three. You go, you go,

[00:08:51] Christina: Alright, I’ll go. Alright.

[00:08:53] Jeff: We

[00:08:53] Christina: Okay, so, um, what, how have I been, my mental health corner update slash what I’ve done on my summer vacation. They’re [00:09:00] kind of the same thing. Um, so as I was talking last time, um, trying a new, um, antidepressants, that is actually why I was not on the last pod and I was very sorry to, to miss our friend Jay, but, um, I, um, woke up and I was like having withdrawal and other issues.

[00:09:17] Christina: I was just like, I can’t do it. I’m out. Um, things seem to be going better. This week has been a lot better than past weeks. Um, so I think that I’m now through all of the… Withdrawal hoops, and I think even some of the side effect hoops, we will see. But so far, it is, this was the first week, like I would say basically from like Tuesday on, where I’ve felt better.

[00:09:40] Christina: There was a period of time where I was not, like, the depression was better, but I was definitely not. feeling like myself and I was like, I’m going to have to go off of this stuff. This is not going to work. But now I’m kind of hopeful that that’s not the case. So, um, I’ve got another, I have an appointment with my doctor, I think on like [00:10:00] the, the 11th or the 12th.

[00:10:01] Christina: Um, let me check. I think it’s Apple Day. Um. No, it is the 13th. It is the 13th. Um, also, uh, side brief tangent, this is gonna get us cancelled, or not us, this is gonna get me cancelled, but, um,

[00:10:17] Jeff: take me with you!

[00:10:18] Christina: it’s, it’s been in the last four or five years or so, but like 9 11 is finally funny, and, and, and I, I keep like wanting to know, like, and it, and look, as like the generation who like, it was my friends who like went off to war and died, like, I feel like I can, I feel like, Older millennials and New Yorkers are the people who are most impacted, and so I feel like all of us know that it’s, it’s sort of funny now, like, obviously the event is not, but like, we can like poke fun at various aspects of it, like the memes.

[00:10:46] Christina: I finally feel like it’s great to use the memes, but I keep wondering, like, when is it going to be safe for Apple to schedule an event on 9 11? Like, like when is that gonna be a thing where it won’t be just like [00:11:00] this taboo thing? Cause like if you, if you, if, cause like if you had, if you had been on D Day, like nobody would give a shit, right?

[00:11:06] Christina: Like people wouldn’t be like, whatever, right? But like, so when is it gonna be okay for someone to have like a big press event on 9 11?

[00:11:12] Brett: I feel like you’re right, like, the statute of limitations is kind of up on that, um, like, you could schedule it and some, like, right wing news source would be outraged, and maybe take a few people with them, but most people would be like, yeah, September 11th, that’s fine.

[00:11:31] Christina: exactly, right? So, anyway, going, that, that was just a slight pivot and, and apologies for that. But like, um, so I’ve got an appointment with my shrink in, in two weeks, or a week and a half I guess to assess and see. Where things are and if I’m going to continue on this medication, things seem to be going a lot better.

[00:11:47] Christina: Um, but my summer, to be honest, you guys, like has been me coming to terms with the fact that I had been depressed for years, um, And I knew that, but I hadn’t really wanted to focus on it, and then it [00:12:00] got to the point that the depression was so bad that it started impacting my work. And that was when, as I always do, like, you know, the first time I ever had one of the debilitating issues and I couldn’t get out of bed, it was when I was in high school.

[00:12:13] Christina: And then I was in college, and now, you know, I’m, I’m an adult. And so, it’s been a difficult summer insofar as having to… Face the reality that, yeah, you’ve been depressed for years, and now it is finally at the point that it is impacting, you can’t cover it up anymore, it’s not just a thing that’s impacting your personal life and your at home life, like, it’s actually impacting your work, and if you don’t get this under control, you’re going to have to, um, take a leave of absence, and, and that was honestly my biggest fear, I was like, I don’t want you to have to Take a leave of absence and have to, you know, try to figure things out or God, I don’t even know if going into like a treatment facility would help, right?

[00:12:50] Christina: Like, I have no fucking clue. I don’t think it would, but I don’t know, right? Like, you know, but I definitely didn’t want to have to take like medical leave. And so this was sort of my wake up moment [00:13:00] when I had to, that was end of June when I had to kind of face that. And then, you know, the last, you know, two months have really been all about, um, Trying to try out new drugs and, and get out of it and do a lot of self assessment and thinking and talking to friends and talk to my mom and talk to my shrink and, you know, get out of my own head.

[00:13:23] Christina: And so I feel like it’s been good. I feel like the light is coming out of the tunnel. Um, but it’s felt like it’s just, it’s really been a summer of rebuilding and, uh,

[00:13:34] Jeff: Yeah. Wow. And that, I mean, just hearing you say that when you start asking yourself that question, like, is there maybe an inpatient solution here? Um, I’ve been to that point once, and it’s really intense. Even though my friends who have done it, it’s like, I’m so happy for you. Right. Like, but wow. Uh, so just, just

[00:13:53] Brett: Or even, even

[00:13:54] Jeff: to that?

[00:13:54] Brett: Even intensive outpatient treatment. It sounds, it sounds like, [00:14:00] um, I’m I’ll, I’ll talk about it in my, in my little segment of this segment, but, uh, it has been suggested to me that I might benefit from inpatient treatment and it sounds like so much. Work? Like, to, to take time off work and spend time, if I’m going to take time off work, I want to enjoy myself.

[00:14:25] Christina: No, that’s kind of where I’m at. And so that’s been the thing that’s been a struggle like balancing and I felt kind of like an asshole because I, I mean, look, it’s been a slow period at work, which I’ve been lucky about. It’s about to get really busy. And so that’s okay too, that I’ve been able to sort of, you know, Not be super on it this summer, um, but I’ve had to even be more candid with people than I normally am.

[00:14:47] Christina: I’m like, yeah, I’m going through medication change issues, which I’ve never had to do as an adult with, like, a corporate, you know, high paying job before. Um, I mean, I’ve had to do it when I was going through, like, awful medication [00:15:00] withdrawals. But that’s different than, than trying out new drugs and getting the side effects and dealing with that.

[00:15:05] Christina: Like, withdrawal is one thing. The side effect fuck up shit is completely different and not knowing if it’s gonna work or not. And that’s why I put off admitting to myself how depressed I was for so long. Because if I’m being completely candid, I was at the point when I probably should have started doing this probably two years ago, right?

[00:15:24] Christina: And… Um, I just let it, you know, fester and fester and fester and then it got to the point that I couldn’t anymore. So, I’m, I’m glad that I’m taking care of it. I’m glad that I’m at least able to recognize where I’m at and I’m glad that I didn’t get to the point where I would have to, yeah, like, go on medical leave and, you know, and the reason I think that I would maybe potentially do an inpatient thing, because, because part of me is like, is like, would that be any better than doing what you’re doing now?

[00:15:54] Christina: And I’m like, well, yeah, maybe you’d be forced to do it.

[00:15:56] Jeff: yeah, yeah, it

[00:15:59] Christina: that would force you to [00:16:00] actually focus on it.

[00:16:01] Jeff: I’ve always wondered about that, like, so I know, when I think about that, it feels like such a fracture in my entire story, right? But that’s not what it’s been for the people I care about who have done it, right? It’s been like… Yeah, I needed that. And also, I just want to acknowledge, we put a false frame around this, given what you’re talking about, of summer. And you’re describing something that’s two years, more than two years in the making, and that you’re, sounds like you’re very much in the middle of.

[00:16:30] Christina: Yeah, but

[00:16:30] Jeff: that, is that true?

[00:16:32] Christina: It’s true, but it feels like I’m coming out of, right? So it feels like the nice thing has been summer and, and the break or the things that that represents. And it’s weird, you know, again, this is such an American thing and this is not the case for all industries at all. But at least, you know, in my world of tech, like I’m fortunate that, that Microsoft as a company is basically off in August.

[00:16:52] Christina: And as a result, GitHub as a company, even though we have slightly different cadences and do different things, we are not going to [00:17:00] be as active either. And, um, that was a complete kind of shock to my system because the news never stops. You have slower periods, but the news doesn’t stop. But I was incredibly grateful for the fact that August is essentially A no one is around month, and you can, historically what I’ve done is I’ve used it to actually get shit, shit done and like, kind of, you know, uh, get myself prepared for, for, for the future.

[00:17:26] Christina: This time I was able to just kind of like, okay, get yourself into a place that once it starts getting busy, you know, because September through, you know, early December is gonna be. Bam, you know, a ton of shit, um, you know, step up. So I’m feeling like I’m in a good place though, but that’s, that’s my long, what I did on my summer vacation slash mental health update, which to me kind of feel like the same thing.

[00:17:54] Christina: Oh, there was also, there were also three Taylor Swift concerts in the middle, which, uh, which honestly was, was [00:18:00] good, was good therapy and was good, good stuff. And she’s going to be bringing that experience to movie theaters this October.

[00:18:07] Jeff: Oh, nice.

[00:18:08] Christina: everyone can

[00:18:09] Jeff: was there? So, okay, I have a question about the Taylor Swift concerts. I, I’ve only seen so many, uh, I’ve only seen a few aspects of the stage design and, and performance. And the one that obviously you see the most is when she dives into the stage. Um, That must, now that I’m thinking of it in the context of how you’re feeling, I’m curious, is there one aspect of that show that you saw three times that felt like, I imagine that feeling like a relief?

[00:18:36] Christina: That…

[00:18:37] Jeff: yeah.

[00:18:38] Christina: And then, so, I mean, the thing is, it’s such a weird experience because it’s like three and a half hours, but the whole day, like, you’re there for like six hours, right, if you, you know, by the time you get there and you’re just with all these people dressed up and everybody’s singing at the top of their lungs and screaming and excited and it’s unlike any concert or music or any experience I’ve ever actually been around.

[00:18:57] Christina: before because I’ve never been around that many [00:19:00] people that much, you know, like everybody comes to it with their own perspectives and their own stories and their own affections, but I’ve never been around that many people who all love the same thing that you love. Um, that’s kind of fucking powerful. Um, but when she does the all too well 10 minute version on her guitar, that’s and everybody is, is singing every word of that 10 minute version of like my favorite song.

[00:19:29] Christina: And it’s been my favorite song of hers before it was the fan favorite. Like the minute, like Red leaked on the internet before it came out on like, it’s supposed to be out on Friday and it came out on like a Wednesday night and I got like a pirated copy of like the deluxe edition or whatever. And I remember listening to it, you know, back to front, front to back, whatever.

[00:19:46] Christina: And I remember coming back to that track five after I listened to the whole thing again, listened to it again and again. I remember, I think I remember even saying to Grant, I was like, This fucking song is really good and he just, he was dismissive but like, I remember like that it was [00:20:00] enough and I knew he’d be dismissive and that’s fine but I knew, I was like, I loved that song and then when she, you know, wrote the 10 minute version which I do not at all believe were the lyrics that she wrote originally in 2012.

[00:20:13] Christina: I do not believe that for a second. Uh,

[00:20:15] Jeff: So part of it is it’s expanding on this thing that already meant so much to you.

[00:20:20] Christina: Yeah, and then she made the short film about it, right? But then doing that live, because I’ve seen her do the song, um, live before, actually before this tour I’d never seen, yeah, I had it on the Red Tour, yeah, I’d seen her do it live before and I’d watched millions of videos, but seeing that song would be enough within the 10 minute version, because it’s 10 minutes long, and it’s like, everybody in the crowd is just like, it’s this very emotional song and everybody just kind of, you know, screaming all the lyrics out is just, I don’t know, it’s kind of, uh, it’s kind of, like, exhilarating.

[00:20:48] Jeff: Yeah. Sounds

[00:20:49] Christina: So that, that, that, that, that’s, that’s the moment. But I love the, the stage jump moment, too. That’s, that’s so cool. That transition’s my favorite transition of all of them. Because then it looks like she swims underneath and then comes out the other side. It’s

[00:20:59] Jeff: [00:21:00] since I have an opportunity to actually ask, what is the context of the stage, and to describe, right? I’m sure everyone’s seen it. She jumps into what looks like water, it’s a hole in

[00:21:08] Christina: It looks like water.

[00:21:09] Jeff: on some slide underground, and

[00:21:11] Christina: Yep. So, so, so basically, I think that the setup for that particular one, I’m trying to think what she’s getting ready for, it’s switching one of the setups between like two of the eras, and I can’t think of what era to what era it’s doing. But basically, that’s how they’re transitioning.

[00:21:27] Christina: I think, oh, I think when she comes up, that’s when I think that the, um, um, Uh, Folklore Cabin comes up, and she starts, um, doing, um, songs off of Folklore, um, I think, uh, when, when, uh, when she comes up, because they, uh, there’s, uh, a number of different set pieces, but one of the big ones is that the cabin for Folklore, which was featured in the music videos, but she also used it in her Grammy performance.

[00:21:52] Christina: That’s on the main stage, which is not where she spends the majority of her time. She spends the majority of her time like on the catwalk or at the diamond in the center or at like a [00:22:00] front stage, but there is like a back like main stage area where this cabin comes up like from under the ground and it looks like it’s all moss covered and tree covered and it looks like it’s coming out of the earth and the trees are coming in.

[00:22:12] Christina: And you know, it’s like this whole other world is taking you by. It’s actually pretty cool. The, the cool thing about this is, because they, so she announced this week that she’s bringing the experience to movie theaters, which is unreal. Um, and it’s going to be, I’m sure, you know, they’ve shot incredibly well.

[00:22:29] Christina: So people will be able to see. What this was, and I’m sure it’ll then come to streaming, but it’s, it’s, it’s unheard of for something like this to go to theaters this way, um, And, uh, uh, Brett, some details about the financials behind it. She’s fucking smart. Her, and her, her parents are fucking smart. And, it’s, I, I now think that she’s trying to take on like, she’s trying to do Barbie sized dollars at the box office is what she’s trying to do.

[00:22:54] Christina: And I think she will. Anyway, I’m done. That’s, that’s my whole, sorry,

[00:22:57] Jeff: just to, now Brett, we gotta get to [00:23:00] you, I just wanna say my favorite phenomenon from this whole Taylor Swift thing, and a couple friends did this, is people getting registered as security guards. And, and, and working. So I have a friend who did that and he’s right, his back’s right to the stage, but then of course she’s walking around.

[00:23:12] Jeff: So you’re still, you have like a front row seat. And, and I don’t think you have to do that much work as a security guard at a Taylor Swift

[00:23:19] Christina: no, nobody’s, no, no, that’s the thing. Everybody knows they’re like, oh, there are snipers. There’s nobody’s getting close to that stage. Like, everybody, it’s, it’s like very

[00:23:26] Jeff: Wait, are there literally snipers? Okay,

[00:23:29] Christina: no, I mean, I don’t know.

[00:23:31] Jeff: I get it, I get it.

[00:23:33] Christina: I, I don’t think so, but at the same time, I probably think so. Like, if I’m being honest with you,

[00:23:37] Brett: like, you don’t know, and that’s what keeps you from, that’s what

[00:23:40] Jeff: Yeah, that’s the point.

[00:23:41] Brett: You can’t be 100%

[00:23:43] Jeff: be snipers. Alright. Heh heh.

[00:23:47] Christina: In South America, I guarantee you there will be snipers.

[00:23:52] Brett: Alright, so I have a question for both of you, um, leading into my, my mental health corner. Uh, you’ve [00:24:00] both talked about, uh, certain destabilizing. Hey, there it is! We’ll get, we’ll get to, we’ll get to that in a second, we’ll, we’ll try to figure out why that happened, but, um, uh, so you’ve both talked about certain destabilizing events, uh, that have brought forward mental health issues that you hadn’t been forced to deal with before.

[00:24:24] Brett: And I have also had the same experience recently. Um, I am currently completely destabilized and flailing, but at the same time, I find myself really grateful that, um, that I’m being forced to deal with things that had always existed,

[00:24:44] Christina: Mm hmm.

[00:24:45] Brett: but that I had never… Uh, been bothered to deal with before. Do you guys have a certain feeling of like gratitude for this destabilization?

[00:24:59] Christina: [00:25:00] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there’s frustration sometimes with myself for waiting as long as I waited. Right. But no, but, but, but no, definitely I think there, when there are things that, you know, have been there that you’ve been able to avoid and that you’ve like put off, and then no. There is a certain sense of, of gratitude to be forced into dealing with it.

[00:25:17] Christina: I think so. For Absolutely. Because you know you need to deal with it,

[00:25:22] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Like the stuff that I’m going to therapy for right now is stuff that I know I’ve felt before it’s stuff that has come to the surface before, and I’ve always found ways to circumvent it. Um, but instead I’m being forced to actually confront it. And that’s been. That’s been good. So, okay, what I did this summer was work and exist and then last weekend I went to Minneapolis. Our couples therapist [00:26:00] recommended that I give Elle some time Because I work from home, and she works out of the house, so I get hours every day where I have the house to myself.

[00:26:11] Brett: Uh, but if she’s home, I’m home. And I don’t go out much, and she doesn’t get much of a break. She never gets the house to herself, so I’ve started trying to schedule more, like, Instead of doing lunch with friends, I’ve been doing dinner with friends, um, drinks with friends. And I decided to give Elle a whole weekend and I would just take off and go to Minneapolis.

[00:26:36] Brett: I got to see Jeff. I got to eat a bunch of great food. I got to meet Jeff’s kids, which was awesome.

[00:26:41] Jeff: I just assumed your therapist said you needed a weekend where you got to see me and meet my kids.

[00:26:46] Brett: sure.

[00:26:48] Jeff: Heh heh heh heh heh.

[00:26:48] Brett: Like, it doesn’t hurt to, um, increase my social FaceTime with other people. Like, that was also recommended by a therapist. So, it was a kill two [00:27:00] birds with one stone. Um, by the way, the, uh, the asteroid… Hitting the earth that killed the dinosaurs. Greatest, greatest historical ratio of killing birds to one stone.

[00:27:16] Brett: Um, so,

[00:27:18] Brett: it was a great trip. Um, I had a great time. Uh, honestly, I don’t think it was enough time for Elle to feel truly like refreshed and like ready to have missed me. Um. I think she needs more like 10 days before she’s actually like, Oh my God, I can’t wait for you to get home. Um, three days was… It was enough for her to get some sleep, I guess, but, um, but yeah, it was, it was good.

[00:27:48] Brett: Uh, and then the other thing that I’ve been doing in the last month is walking on my treadmill desk. Like, I have a treadmill desk, and I’ve always [00:28:00] had the option to be walking while working. Um, but I, for a long time, have rarely taken advantage of it. Uh, since… Since the beginning of July, I have walked between 3 and 10 miles a day, every day.

[00:28:16] Brett: And I really thought that would help me lose more weight than it did. Um, it turns out my body just has a set weight that it wants to be at. But I’ve built up a lot of strength and a lot of endurance and, and I am no longer like winded. Going on, going on 30 minute walks with the dog because I’m walking hours a day anyway.

[00:28:42] Brett: Um, so that’s been good. I’ve also been lifting. Um, so some of my failure to lose weight could also be attributed to gain in muscle. Um,

[00:28:53] Jeff: well done.

[00:28:54] Brett: un unknown. I guess I don’t have a… A

[00:28:57] Jeff: why I, when I’m trying to lose weight, I [00:29:00] never lift weights, and in fact, I never lift weights at all.

[00:29:05] Brett: Yeah,

[00:29:06] Jeff: I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna fuck up the data.

[00:29:08] Brett: but I’ve been stable as far as bipolar goes. I’ve been stable for six months or more.

[00:29:14] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say, it’s been so long. I’m so proud of you.

[00:29:18] Brett: Yeah. Well, yeah, like there’s a certain in historically that’s been a kind of shitty thing for me because, because without mania I don’t get anything done. But I have found, I have found that new stable that I was looking for, where I am actually like energetic and productive without tipping over.

[00:29:41] Christina: I was going to say, that’s the thing, if you can find that point where you don’t have to use, because I, I don’t want to speak for you, but having been on this pod with you for so many years and talking to you, it does feel like sometimes maybe you’ve used those periods of mania as a crutch. Knowing that you could, you know, get things done and do other things and almost like, you know, [00:30:00] you, you kind of like, you know, use it as this thing and not to say that there can’t be good, it, it, not that it’s not amazing that you could do great things with it, right, but I think it’s even better if you are able to get things done without it.

[00:30:11] Brett: agreed,

[00:30:12] Jeff: In the past, you’d be like, Ooh, organic cocaine. Um, excellent. Uh, I also wanted to say, Brett, about that six months. I almost, it makes me wonder, this is a question to you. Um, I wonder, has it allowed you to get, I wonder if there was just an amount of time in which you are going to be bound to be asking yourself, what am I without X, right?

[00:30:35] Jeff: But then after six months, you have to have answered that.

[00:30:39] Brett: Yeah, so between the, uh, extracurricular meds I’m taking, um, and, and just a general shift in my overall, uh, like mental stability, like the new, the new [00:31:00] stable kind of just came about without Um, after, after a few months, I just found like a way to be productive, a way to keep coding, a way to keep creating, uh, without the mania.

[00:31:16] Brett: And honestly, like the point I’m at right now, I could comfortably exist in for the rest of my life. Um. Like, I, I no longer feel a need to like, try to trigger mania, just to, just to get that spark of creativity, just to get that, um, uh, burst of productivity, like, I finally have like, a stable, and it’s every day, right, like, instead

[00:31:47] Jeff: kind of count on it, you’re not flinching, maybe, or are you still flinching sometimes? Like, oh boy, is this it?

[00:31:51] Brett: Oh, no, there have been a couple times when I’ve gotten, like, a bad night’s sleep, and I think, Oh, God, now I’m going manic. Um, that happened on my last [00:32:00] night in Minneapolis. Uh, I switched to a different hotel, and the bed was uncomfortable, and the AC was too loud, and it was just a shitty hotel. Um, and… I didn’t sleep at all that night and I drove home, I drove the two and a half hour drive back to Winona on about two hours of fitful sleep and I thought for sure that was gonna be the trigger that made me manic and it, it didn’t happen.

[00:32:31] Christina: awesome. I

[00:32:32] Brett: Yeah, and that night that I, it was like Southside Minneapolis and I was pretty far from, uh, the kind of centers of good restaurants, like the, the clusters of good restaurants. But there was this place right across the street from my hotel called, uh, I want to say the Clay Pot, and it was an Indian restaurant.

[00:32:59] Brett: And [00:33:00] they had little symbols on their menu for gluten free, dairy free, and vegetarian, vegan. And, um, 90% of their menu was gluten free and dairy free. And then, like, 70% of that was also vegan, which is, like, that’s my sweet spot, right? Gluten free, dairy free, vegetarian. And I could order anything. And I… I had such a good time there.

[00:33:29] Brett: And they asked me, do you want spice level one through seven? So I was like six, I can do six and it was mild. And I wish I’d done seven. And then I wish I’d asked, do you have like a white people versus like Indian people scale that I can like get in on? Cause I,

[00:33:50] Jeff: example of, of totally useless, um, data definition.

[00:33:55] Brett: right. Um, I’ve been really into hot

[00:33:58] Jeff: six? Are you kidding me? [00:34:00] Like, you go up to six and six is not hot? That’s just a one, two, three

[00:34:03] Spicy, Policitcal Digression

[00:34:03] Brett: yeah, yeah. Um, I’ve been really into watching Hot Ones lately.

[00:34:08] Christina: the Hot Ones.

[00:34:08] Brett: It’s, it’s so great. If you love celebrities and you want to see them sweat, it’s

[00:34:13] Jeff: And if you love good interviews!

[00:34:15] Christina: I was gonna say, he’s a remarkably good interviewer. Like, you know?

[00:34:18] Brett: Yeah, um, I introduced my, we’ll call her my sister in law, I’m not married, but my, my girlfriend’s sister, um, I introduced her to it just last night and, and we had a blast watching, um, Anna Kendrick and LL Cool J.

[00:34:35] Brett: Um,

[00:34:36] Christina: You should, um, you should watch the SNL parody of Beyonce on

[00:34:39] Brett: seen it, I’ve seen it.

[00:34:40] Christina: really good. It’s so good.

[00:34:42] Brett: um, but I watched so much of it that I was like, I wanna order these hot sauces and do this along with them. Um, so

[00:34:50] Jeff: that a thing? Is that a thing, or is that your invention?

[00:34:52] Brett: yeah, no, you can do that. Um, so I’ve been like, doing the wing challenge along with people and getting that [00:35:00] fuckin body buzz you get from Excessive heat.

[00:35:04] Brett: Like I have the, I have the Last Stab XXX, which is like three versions of the X Pepper, which is the hot, hotter than ghost peppers. It’s, and I love it. Like I can eat, I can, I can drink that right out of the bottle. My spice tolerance is insane right now.

[00:35:22] Jeff: Awesome. Christina, you just went into sports broadcaster mode, with that microphone all of a

[00:35:26] Christina: I did.

[00:35:27] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:35:28] Christina: I know, I know. Well, I’m sitting on the floor to record this. And so I, um, so I’m just, yeah, wanting to make sure that it’s near my mouth. That’s all.

[00:35:36] Jeff: I just learned, I don’t know if any of you listen to the Political Gapfest podcast, it’s one of the few

[00:35:40] Christina: Yes, I have for years. I go on and off, but it’s probably my longest lasting podcast. Because it’s been on for almost 20 years. And I’ve

[00:35:46] Jeff: I haven’t, I haven’t, oh yeah. I haven’t missed an episode in, I think, 10 years and, and it’s not even like I totally relate to everyone’s politics all the time. But anyway, for people that don’t know, it’s John Dickerson, who is just a very kind of like, [00:36:00] he may be sort of center, but he’s got such a heart and, and he’s got such an amazing way of talking about political conflict.

[00:36:06] Jeff: And also he’s amazing at analogies and metaphors. And then you got David Plotz, who’s just like, kind of like, I mean, he’s the animal, the wild animal of the bunch of them. Like he’ll, he’s the most willing to say something that everyone else is like, what the fuck? And then you got Emily Bazlon, the, the New York times reporter.

[00:36:22] Jeff: And, and she works at Yale law school. She’s yeah. So anyway, I just learned that Emily Bazlon in one of the podcasts, not only I knew she recorded in her closet every episode, but she records on her knees. In every episode. And apparently has in the entire, like 20 years, they’ve been a podcast. I was like, man, if I was on my knees, I couldn’t get up.

[00:36:42] Christina: That’s nuts, because I used to always think, because it originally started, they were, they all worked for Slate. Now I don’t think any of

[00:36:47] Jeff: none of them work for Slate.

[00:36:48] Christina: But it is still Slate produced and Slate distributed. Um, but I thought they all worked out of, like, probably the Slate DC office is what I

[00:36:55] Jeff: they used to. Yeah, they used to. Yeah. Yeah, they used to. Now they’re all over the place. I mean, I [00:37:00] think John

[00:37:00] Christina: Oh yeah, no, I know, I know they all have a

[00:37:01] Jeff: studio,

[00:37:02] Christina: Exactly. John Dickerson’s in the CBS studios. David Plotz has his own empire of various things that he’s bought. And, and Emily with her, you know, uh, you know, distinguished Yale professor and, and New York Times Magazine, you

[00:37:14] Jeff: they still act like they’re in a tiny sweaty studio together. I mean, I

[00:37:17] Christina: They do.

[00:37:18] Jeff: love that podcast

[00:37:19] Christina: love that pod so much. And I love, again, like I love the, um, their cultural gab fest is one that they’ve had. That one’s had like a rotating thing of crews, but, but Dana Stevens has been with that, um, for a long time. But yeah, like I love that they are still all with it and they do it. There’s something comforting to me.

[00:37:36] Christina: About the Political Gap Fest. Like, I just, I love it.

[00:37:40] Jeff: It’s

[00:37:41] Brett: Is it at all like Pod Save America?

[00:37:43] Jeff: They’re such bros. And, and these three are, they are so different and none of them for me, I mean, they’re all just such wonderful personalities. And I’m never like, Oh, fuck, now he’s talking or she’s talking, you know, and with Pod Save America, I’m just like, I don’t want to listen to this guy [00:38:00] again.

[00:38:00] Brett: All right.

[00:38:00] Jeff: And I loved it. I mean, leading up to the Trump, like the

[00:38:04] Christina: I used to like it and then I just got,

[00:38:05] Jeff: I was obsessed. I was obsessed. Do you like it, Brad? I mean, we sat here shitting on

[00:38:09] Brett: I have enjoyed it in the past. Um, I feel like their YouTube episodes are way too long for my attention span. Um,

[00:38:19] Mental Health Corner, Part II

[00:38:19] Brett: but anyway, last thing I’ll mention before.

[00:38:21] Jeff: Yeah, sorry, .

[00:38:22] Brett: Um, I have been a I’ve been officially diagnosed with PTSD, um, as a result of religious trauma, although that’s not part of the official diagnosis, and, and, like, technically it’s complex PTSD, which is PTSD that results from repeated, um, trauma, and not from a single role.

[00:38:46] Brett: instance of trauma. Um, and, uh, I, it has been suggested that I do inpatient treatment for this PTSD because it kind of rules my life right [00:39:00] now. And, and I didn’t realize this until things were destabilized. Um, but like I said, inpatient treatment, there, I have some stigma around the idea. And also it just sounds like such a.

[00:39:15] Brett: Dedication? That I’m not at a point yet where I’m eager to do that. Um,

[00:39:23] Christina: I see, I understand both of those things. I mean, the stigma, I think, no matter what we all talk about, I mean, look, we are all open and honest about our issues, but there is always a stigma around those things, because, at least for me, I always hold up, I’m like, okay, well, there are, you know, people like me, and then there’s, like, legitimately fucking crazy people, and I don’t want to be one of those, like, legitimately fucking crazy people.

[00:39:47] Christina: Um, and,

[00:39:49] Brett: hour holds and, and suicide watches, and yeah.

[00:39:53] Christina: and, and, you know, uh, acting deranged and, you know, seeing, um, hallucinations and, and doing all kinds of [00:40:00] shit, right? So, um, people who are, like, in a frequent state of psychiatric breaks. So I, I understand that aspect, that there’s a stigma involved. But I think the… I mean, I think the thing there is because you’ve, you’ve, you’ve done rehab, right? Right. So like, you understand that sometimes it’s not about anything with you. It’s like, okay, this is what I need to be able to take the time to focus on this. But I under, also understand from your point of view being like, okay, this seems like this would be so much work. And even though it’s work you need to do, it might not be a work that you are wanting to, like,

[00:40:35] Brett: Like, I’m going, I’m going to two different therapists right now. I have a couple therapists, and I have a, a private therapist. And that seems like enough work to me. Like, I am… And I’m actually, I’m actually seeing my personal therapist twice a week right now.

[00:40:52] Christina: Yeah. I mean, you’re doing a ton. I mean, I would ask two things. I would ask one, would this actually be that much more work? Because it, [00:41:00] I, I kind of feel like it wouldn’t

[00:41:01] Jeff: that’s an interesting, that’s a great question. I would

[00:41:03] Christina: I mean, I, I think one would be that, like, would it actually be that much more work, like emotionally and whatnot? Because I, I, now that you’ve talked about all the stuff you do, I kind of feel like it wouldn’t be.

[00:41:11] Christina: But I think then the second question is, Is this something that right now, at this moment in your life, you think is important enough for you to be able to take a pause on everything else? That you have to go do this thing for however many weeks?

[00:41:23] Brett: cause that’s the thing is like, this destabilization has brought up issues that I’m kind of desperate to deal with. Like, I kind of want these over, I kind of want these solved, I kind of want a way forward. So, the answer to that question is yes, I do think it’s worth… Taking a pause. And I think I would be more likely to consider an outpatient program, like an intensive outpatient program, um, where I had some time in between sessions, uh, to just live my life and maybe take the [00:42:00] time off of work, but, but be like actively daily working on some of these issues.

[00:42:07] Christina: That might be, that might be like a good counter, like, like, middle ground because I know like for me when I was kind of, and I wasn’t at the point where a doctor was suggesting anything to me, I was just doing my usual thinking 10 steps ahead of every potential outcome thing, which is what I do, I was, Like, my, my big, like, I guess, fear, like, you know, concern about inpatient things is like, okay, I know that you need to focus on this, like, outpatient might be better, because I was like, look, I, I can understand that this needs to be focused on, but I also don’t want to be in a scenario where it feels like I’m in jail, like, I don’t ever want to go to any place where they’re like, oh, you can’t be on the internet, you can’t do whatever, like, fuck you, like, like, I, I, I’m not, you know, like, if I’m paying money for this, and I’m choosing to do this to better myself, if I’m not being held by the state, if I’m not being ordered By by, you know, the government, if it is not part of, like, my way to get out of jail, I’ll be goddamned if you tell me what I [00:43:00] can and can’t do,

[00:43:00] Brett: As someone, as someone who has done that and has been in locked ward treatment programs, um, there is a certain, uh, relaxation that comes a couple days in when you realize you just no longer have the option to be on your phone, to be on the internet, to be involved in any way in your day to day circumstances, and you have been given the freedom to Just focus on the issue at hand.

[00:43:30] Brett: Um, there’s a, there’s a relaxation that comes

[00:43:33] Christina: Oh, I, I, I don’t doubt that. I think I would just want it to be my choice, right? Like, I would want it to be my choice to be, to say, I’m choosing not to talk about anything work wise, I’m choosing not to engage with anyone in my life, but if I want to relax and read An article on the internet or whatever, or watch videos on YouTube.

[00:43:53] Christina: I can do that. I don’t wanna be, you know, deprived of, of those things. Or if I wanna talk to a [00:44:00] friend, you know, I don’t wanna be like deprived of that, which to me, that would be the things that I would have to look into personally. Like, I’m not speaking for you, but like, if I were ever to go in an inpatient thing, it’d be like, yeah, okay, so what are the restrictions?

[00:44:10] Christina: Because if, if it’s gonna be like jail or like drug rehab, When I’m not a drug addict, and I’m not here by, you know, force of someone. No.

[00:44:20] Brett: of my longer stints in rehab were entirely voluntary, um, which does make a difference because I’ve been in like 48 hour recovery centers that weren’t my choice, um, and that is That’s a total freakout, kind of like, yeah, uh, agency is paramount in that kind of break.

[00:44:47] macOS Sonoma Celebrates Your Pain

[00:44:47] Brett: But anyway, so, okay, next topic, and it doesn’t have to take long, but, uh, you guys were matching the balloons that were coming up in my avatar.

[00:44:56] Brett: And this has been a thing because I do telehealth for [00:45:00] therapy, and I’m running Sonoma, and

[00:45:03] Jeff: is what, I don’t even know what that

[00:45:04] Brett: the latest macOS.

[00:45:06] Jeff: Oh, duh. Oh man. I am out of touch. I used to watch all the events.

[00:45:10] Brett: And, and like, it has this thing called reactions that apply to anywhere your video camera is used. So I would be in like a private portal for a therapy session, and I would be talking about trauma, and balloons would come up over the screen.

[00:45:28] Jeff: some good AI. That’s some great AI, man.

[00:45:30] Brett: and I still haven’t figured out what triggers it. Like, you guys saw it, but I wasn’t doing, I wasn’t making

[00:45:35] Jeff: Let me just say that there were three points at which balloons came up and it was a super fucked up contrast.

[00:45:41] Brett: Exactly. And, and you can imagine how thrown my therapists were as I’m talking about intense trauma.

[00:45:50] Christina: what’s fucked up to me, like, I understand in FaceTime, why this would be active. Why are they putting this for any app that uses the fucking video API? Like, [00:46:00] that’s fucking

[00:46:00] Brett: a very good question. And you can disable it, but you have to disable it one at a time for every app that uses your camera. So it can surprise you if you’re using like Teams for the first time, all of a sudden you have to go in and disable reactions there. Um. And there’s a bunch of reactions that are supposed to, like, you’re supposed to be able to make a thumbs up, and it shows a thumbs up on the screen, like a little emoji

[00:46:27] Christina: Right.

[00:46:28] Brett: of the thumbs up, and, like, I can’t actually trigger these on purpose.

[00:46:34] Brett: And, and I, and it’s always accidental, and it’s always a surprise.

[00:46:39] Jeff: I’m thinking about checking myself in for treatment, balloons.

[00:46:44] Christina: Yeah, it’s like,

[00:46:46] Jeff: Balloons.

[00:46:47] Christina: my cat died, balloons, like,

[00:46:50] Brett: Yeah. It’s very,

[00:46:51] Jeff: 9 11 is funny now, balloons!

[00:46:55] Christina: I mean, that would

[00:46:55] Jeff: I have, I have, I want to pick up on that topic before we’re done, but, uh, I have some, uh, [00:47:00] it is actually funny, but it’s a different kind of funny. Okay.

[00:47:03] Brett: Okay, that was all I had to say, is I think it’s a, it’s a weird future, feature that needs some smoothing out. Um,

[00:47:12] Jeff: It’s just, that was generous!

[00:47:14] Christina: it needs to not be enabled by default, and it needs to not be enabled on third party apps at all, like,

[00:47:20] Brett: I agree.

[00:47:22] Jeff: That’s definitely an opt in situation.

[00:47:25] Brett: for sure.

[00:47:26] Jeff: Opt in to balloons. I mean, the chaos monkey in me loves it.

[00:47:31] Brett: because

[00:47:31] Christina: Oh, me too.

[00:47:32] Brett: when I, when it started

[00:47:34] Christina: Oh my god, can you imagine the Jeffrey Toobin Zoom scenario with this?

[00:47:37] Jeff: Yes!

[00:47:38] Christina: Holy shit. They come in and not only do they see them whacking off, but they also see balloons everywhere.

[00:47:44] Brett: the, uh, the, when it started happening, I did not know why. All I knew was in all of these conversations I was having video with people, uh, just randomly balloons were coming up. [00:48:00] No matter what app I was using, balloons were coming up. And it’s the only one I’ve ever actually triggered. It’s the balloons,

[00:48:07] Jeff: what are some of the other options? I guess I should look

[00:48:09] Brett: There’s like thumbs up, there’s smiley face, there’s like, I don’t know, you have video, you’re seeing people’s faces and their hands, like why do you need to emphasize that in any way? But when it’s

[00:48:24] Christina: you have a

[00:48:25] Jeff: have a theory, I have a theory.

[00:48:26] Brett: When it started happening, though, I had no idea why, and it took me a while and some, some Mastodon posts to come down to, like, Oh, you can go up to the camera icon in the menu bar and disable reactions for each app.

[00:48:41] Jeff: So, this could be the fault of Big Hot Air Balloon because when I search Sonoma Balloon, I get a lot of Sonoma County Hot Air Balloon

[00:48:50] Christina: Ha ha ha.

[00:48:52] Jeff: Those people got their fingers in this. Dirty little hot air balloon fingers. Oops. Ooh, episode title. [00:49:00] Uh.

[00:49:01] Brett: uh, should we take a quick sponsor

[00:49:02] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:49:04] Sponsor: Lackadaisical Attitudes

[00:49:04] Brett: All right, this episode is brought to you by Lackadaisical Attitudes. Lackadaisical Attitudes is your podcast getting fewer sponsors than normal. Is your work giving you a smaller bonus than you’d hoped for? Try a Lackadaisical Attitude and just do your best to be interesting.

[00:49:20] Brett: The sponsors will come back. The market will improve. In the meantime, a lackadaisical attitude can help you get better sleep, have more energy for the things you care about, and spend more time with your family or pets even if you don’t have enough money for them. Lackadaisical may also be sold under the brand names lazy, half hearted, laid back, or passive.

[00:49:41] Brett: Side effects may include dizziness, explosive diarrhea, unexpected hair growth on the brain, and in rare cases, imaginary discharge. Thanks lackadaisical attitudes.

[00:49:53] Jeff: Did you make this up?

[00:49:54] Brett: Yeah, I just

[00:49:55] Jeff: Oh, every once in a while you write a comedy sponsor

[00:49:58] Christina: No, I love, I love, I [00:50:00] love that. Now I understand why you asked me something before the pod started. That’s a great sponsor. And also, you can take Lackadaisical Attitudes with GiveZeroFucks. And it’s a great combo.

[00:50:11] Jeff: good.

[00:50:12] Brett: Yep, that should have been in the read.

[00:50:14] Jeff: Um. I wanna just…

[00:50:16] Christina: known what you were doing, I would’ve like, helped you, like, punch it up. I would’ve like, helped you on this. Cause I’m, cause I also,

[00:50:20] Brett: we should have workshopped this

[00:50:22] Christina: we should’ve worked on it, I was gonna say, cause I have, I, I’m having a, I’ve had a big seeping heem, um, you know, spoonfuls of, of uh, lackadaisical attitudes as of late.

[00:50:30] Christina: Fuckin love it. We

[00:50:31] Dark humor out of collective trauma

[00:50:31] Jeff: Um, I want to pick up on 9 11 and then probably we should just do Graftitude, huh? Um, so I, I had a bad habit for a long time. Anytime someone said, you know, uh, Oh, that will be like, if you’re setting an appointment together, how about 9 11?

[00:50:49] Jeff: I would have to, I would either say or have to hold back, never forget. Um, and I recognize that that wasn’t. Really funny, but I also just want to say in terms of, of anything like that, [00:51:00] any mass trauma event being funny, it’s an exhale, right? It’s like a, because it wasn’t just that event. Like, so for me, two days later, there were so many flags up everywhere.

[00:51:09] Jeff: And I was biking home from my job at the Newberry Library in Chicago, and a car came by me with a flag haphazardly Tape to the antenna. And that flag almost blinded me. It almost went straight into my eye. And I just remember thinking like, this is both funny, not funny right now. But like this, if, if it continues like this, we get to own some of this and say, this is absurd, right?

[00:51:31] Jeff: So the tragedy of it, it’s not funny, but the like historical moment in which Clear Channel, my son just researched this. I didn’t even know the extent of this when Clear Channel sent out a list of songs that radio stations. They owned Could Not Play. That list of songs is bananas.

[00:51:46] Jeff: My baby, she sent me a letter that was banned, um, because it had an airplane in it, right? Like.

[00:51:53] Christina: Eat World had to rename their album Bleed American to Jimmy Eat World because Bleed American was like not, and it [00:52:00] happened to come out like on 9 11, so it was a whole thing, and they had to like rename the fucking album so that it could be released in stores.

[00:52:07] Jeff: Yes. You know, if I’m, if I’m not mistaken, the hip hop group, The Coup, yeah, I’m confirming that now, had a record that was supposed to come out maybe on

[00:52:16] Brett: Oh, that’s

[00:52:17] Jeff: and, and it showed exploding World Trade Center. Um, And anyway, so it was an insane time and I think anyone who lived through it, um, has every right to exhale, to like blow off, like, I remember once, um, I was, I did a, I spent three days with a forensic anthropologist who’s basically developed the field of unearthing and examining bodies in mass graves, right?

[00:52:41] Jeff: And, and I, he was showing me a picture from Guatemala where he was working and there was the families of the people that were being dug up or that they hoped would be in there were sitting in lawn chairs, eating ice cream at the edge of the grave. And one child had an ice cream cone and was kind of laughing.

[00:52:54] Jeff: And I said, talk to me about this, this context. And he’s like, you know what? When you’re in a [00:53:00] situation like that, you actually have access to every human emotion, because you have so much of the hard stuff that people never experience, but you’re also human, and so there’s going to be boring moments, there’s going to be humorous moments.

[00:53:11] Jeff: And, uh, and I think there’s something in that for this, but I just wanted to share a couple of stories about this. So… Uh, just like, but as part of my work, um, uh, organizing against the Iraq war in 2003, cause I’d been traveling back and forth and stuff, I was doing a, a tour, like I was traveling around the Southwest with my friend Raheem El Hajj, who’s a incredible oud player.

[00:53:33] Jeff: He was actually jailed. In Saddam Hussein’s Iraq for writing protest music without lyrics, um, and was tortured the whole thing. Right. And so we were driving around the Southwest together, but at one point we got to go to Taos, New Mexico for a film festival that we were going to speak at. So basically what happened is like, I’d tell stories from Iraq.

[00:53:51] Jeff: He we’d like go back and forth. He’d tell stories and then play a song. I’d tell stories. He tells stories. But it was awesome. And so, um, he, we [00:54:00] were at an airport to take a small like prop plane to, um, Taos up, but we were, we actually flew along the Rio Grande.

[00:54:06] Jeff: It was amazing. And, uh, he had his oud case, which is a very, it’s a, it’s an unusual looking instrument if you’re from here. Um, and, and, and it has an unusual case, no matter where you are, it’s cause you can’t see it’s an instrument. And the security guys, we were checking in, it was a little airport thing, right?

[00:54:21] Jeff: It was like, yeah. Okay, what is this? And he’s Iraqi, right at a time when Iraq is considered our enemy, you know, like whatever. And, uh, he’s like, what is this? And he’s like, well, it’s an oud. And he goes, don’t worry. I know how to fly a plane, but I don’t know how to land.

[00:54:40] Christina: ha ha ha ha.

[00:54:42] Jeff: I was like, holy shit, too soon, but amazing.

[00:54:46] Jeff: And it wasn’t too soon because he His entire family and country was about to be destroyed because of a lie about September 11th. He gets to make whatever fucking jokes he

[00:54:55] Brett: I feel like, I feel like having a sense of humor takes, [00:55:00] um, some bite out of trauma. Um, I mean, I feel like the entire comedy industry is full of people full of trauma who have learned to laugh at their own…

[00:55:11] Christina: Totally. Well, cops. You know, gallows humor. You know, you will never find people who make, like, more, like, fucked up, but, like, pretty fucking funny jokes than, like, police officers. Because they’ve seen some shit. And,

[00:55:21] Jeff: I mean, and I want to just I want to asterisk for all the shit about police. But yes, they see every shitty thing every day. No, no, I know. And that’s fine. I just had to explicit it. Not because you were doing anything I felt like was wrong.

[00:55:34] Brett: We had to explicit

[00:55:35] Jeff: Okay, but let me just here’s another one. And this is more about Coloring in, um, the story of 9 11 and, and some of its victims, and I don’t speak for anybody except this, except to describe this one amazing person.

[00:55:48] Jeff: So I was working for like a, you know, peace organization or whatever, right? After 9 11. And we helped to organize, um, a delegation of people who had lost loved ones. in the World Trainsetter Attacks, [00:56:00] who wanted to go to Afghanistan, um, and, and make the point that this is not what we wanted, right? Like, um, and one of them was this woman, I’m not even going to say her name because, but she was like in her, um, early seventies and her, I don’t know if you remember this story, but there was a guy who, um, died because he was trying to help someone in a wheelchair get down.

[00:56:19] Jeff: And, and this was her brother. And, um, And so she’s, you know, this isn’t, this is, by the way, is only, it’s not even a year after 9 11, right? And, and so she wants to take that grief, but also say, fuck you, you can’t have it, um, to, to kind of destroy Afghanistan. And, uh, so she goes to Afghanistan and she, when she comes back, she comes to our apartment where we also ran our organization out of.

[00:56:43] Jeff: And she’s sitting and having coffee with us. And I was like, so tell me like what, tell me something about the trip. She’s like, I got to fire an RPG. And I was like, wait,

[00:56:52] Christina: yeah.

[00:56:53] Jeff: She’s like, yeah, it was somebody, one of these guys had an RPG and there was like an old, like a destroyed car. And he’s like, do you want to shoot the car? [00:57:00] I was like, fuck yeah, I want to shoot the car. And so like here, this is what I love about humans. It’s like, they were on an honest to God, like peace activist mission, but she’s like, yeah, which is what I would like. Fuck yeah. If, if I had, if I was actually offered to shoot an RPG, hell yes.

[00:57:17] Christina: Agreed, I’ve never shot a gun, I’ve never wanted to fire a gun, but if somebody offered me, like, the chance to, like, blow up a tank or something, like, fuck yeah!

[00:57:24] Jeff: So just

[00:57:24] Christina: if I know no one’s, I know no one’s gonna get hurt, I know, like, what, like, absolutely.

[00:57:28] Jeff: yes,

[00:57:29] Christina: why not?

[00:57:29] Jeff: There had to be, yeah, there had to be moments of levity like that because it was such a, it was first a national trauma and then it was a national absurdity, um, while, while people were

[00:57:39] Christina: While still being a

[00:57:40] Jeff: trauma. Yeah. Like clearly,

[00:57:41] Christina: an absurdity while it was a trauma, and then it became, like, uh, yeah, it became used for these other things. Lies told by the people, you know, um, uh, propagated by the press, you know, to, to sell these things that didn’t happen. Uh, this is funny. Judy fucking Miller is an idiot. And this is how I know that she’s an actual fuckin moron. [00:58:00] I was in the green room with her, uh, not the green room, I was in the makeup room with her at

[00:58:03] Jeff: we’ll say something lying ass New York Times reporter that basically assisted in a way in making the case to

[00:58:09] Christina: The only good thing about her was that she did go to jail, rather than giving out the sources. I will give Judy credit for that. Well done. But, she fucking sucks. But, I was, I was, we were both in the makeup room at Fox. I was going on one channel, she was going on the other. Bitch didn’t know how to do copy paste on her iPhone.

[00:58:27] Jeff: Oh. Nice.

[00:58:28] Christina: had to, I had to show her how to copy and paste something on her iPhone, and, and I did, mostly so I could tell the story that I had to show Judy Miller in like 2013, 20, no, like 2014, 2014, I had to show Judy Miller how to copy paste on her iPhone.

[00:58:42] Brett: a writer, all

[00:58:43] Jeff: the New York Times reporter at the

[00:58:44] Christina: she’s one of the most famous journalists, like, yeah, she like went to jail rather than giving up a Scooter Libby.

[00:58:50] Brett: okay,

[00:58:51] Jeff: I mean, you don’t go to jail rather than giving up someone named Scooter.

[00:58:55] Brett: right.

[00:58:55] Jeff: You just don’t. And I had a big brother type named Scooter, but, and I [00:59:00] would go to jail for him. But, um, that’s amazing. Wow. Yeah, what a time. I mean, and just to like, be clear that if anybody’s doubting we understand the gravity, I was, um, I lost nobody.

[00:59:12] Jeff: I was in, um, I was on the Lower East Side a week after the, uh, a week after September 11th, and I will never forget, there was nobody, and the walls were covered, and everything was, every surface was covered in missing person, um, flyers, and I, and that haunts me. Haunts me. That was a week after though.

[00:59:32] Jeff: That was when driving from Chicago to New York. It was incredible because it was this like parade of construction workers heading to help, right? Like, despite health risks, despite everything, that was a moment to be

[00:59:44] Christina: Everybody, everybody, everybody came together. 100%. And then it turned into this, and then it, it turned into this, you know, like, uh, jingoism, you know, like, other thing against the wrong fucking people. But I digress. Um, not, not that like Saddam didn’t have [01:00:00] plenty of reasons to be against him, but like not under these reasons, like it was such, so, yeah.

[01:00:04] Christina: Uh,

[01:00:05] Brett: I just thought of the perfect episode title that I absolutely will not use. 9

[01:00:09] Christina: Okay, tell us.

[01:00:10] Brett: 11 is a joke in your town.

[01:00:13] Jeff: Oh my god! Wow! Yeah, I was just gonna say, how’s that not happen, but exactly the reason you’re not gonna name it is why that

[01:00:21] Christina: love it. I love it. But no, it can’t happen, unfortunately. That’s some always, that’s some always sunny shit. And uh, and even they might be like, eh, I don’t know. And they’ll do anything.

[01:00:32] Jeff: And also, just to end this, I just, a little paradigm shift, um, it wasn’t the three thousand who died on 9 11, it’s the hundreds of thousands who died alongside those three thousand in the response, and I don’t think, I don’t think anybody who can’t accept that is, is, is truly in touch with their brain and heart.

[01:00:52] Jeff: Anyway, uh,

[01:00:53] Christina: But also, but also, but also the George Bush, like, reaction memes where you’re saying like, you know, [01:01:00] Ariana Grande is dating Spongebob, like, and it’s, you know, somebody whispering into his ear,

[01:01:05] Jeff: Yeah, that’s right.

[01:01:05] Christina: My Pet Goat. That’s fucking funny. That’s fucking funny.

[01:01:09] Jeff: That was something.

[01:01:10] Brett: this would be an awesome time to lead into a sponsor, but we don’t have

[01:01:13] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, right, right, right.

[01:01:15] Christina: It would. If you do want to sponsor us, because we find things like 9 11 funny, um, you can, uh, contact us at, uh, sponsors at, at overtiredpod. com, um, or, or contact us other ways, but yeah, please sponsor

[01:01:27] Jeff: for listening to our season finale.

[01:01:30] Christina: Absolutely.

[01:01:31] Grapptitude

[01:01:31] Jeff: Series finale. Um, all right, should we do Graptitude? Just for like a totally bizarre shift? Tweetbot,

[01:01:39] Brett: I can kick it off.

[01:01:40] Christina: You kick it off.

[01:01:41] Brett: Alright, I’m picking Ivory. Um, from the people who brought you TweetBot, the, what was formerly TweetBot, right, we all love TweetBot. We all, we all used to love Twitter.

[01:01:53] Jeff: miss you. I still have it installed

[01:01:55] Brett: I’m sorry, X. Um, Yeah, no, I, [01:02:00] I also, I also cringe at the thought of actually saying X. Um, it’s so stupid! But, anyway, Macedon has become my new home.

[01:02:12] Brett: Um, I’m on Threads, I’m on Blue Sky, I’m not on T2, cause… I don’t care. Um, and uh, Macedon, like I accumulated a critical mass of followers and following uh, that it is interesting to me daily in the same way that Twitter used to be. Um, and Ivory is my client of choice. Uh, Tweetbot creators, Tapbot created Ivory and uh, if you have a Tweetbot subscription I don’t know if they’re still doing it, but it would allow you to, uh, switch your subscription over to Ivory, um, and support them in that way, uh, [01:03:00] which I gladly did, and I’m running Ivory on Mac and iOS, and I love it.

[01:03:07] Christina: Yeah, it’s a great app. Um, my, um, Twitter, uh, my TweetBot subscription ended, like, my yearly one, like, was right at the time that basically they had to shut down, so there might have been, like, 14 cents or something. That was remaining, but it was one of those things where I was just able to not have the, you know, subscription renew and it wasn’t a big deal.

[01:03:28] Christina: So it hadn’t like renewed for another year or anything. So I was fortunate about that. But then I, of course, immediately did like the 2499 or whatever the thing is, you know, to, to be able to support them, get the Mac app and the iOS app. And, um, uh, they’re, they’re great people. It’s a great app. Um, I’ve been spending a lot more time on, on Mastodon as well.

[01:03:46] Christina: I haven’t been on any social media for the last few weeks. That’s been sort of a choice. Might talk about it at another time. Um, but, uh, when I do, like, I, I definitely, I… There are parts of Mastodon that I definitely, um, like to [01:04:00] dunk on. There was a person who genuinely, this was not a joke, and then had like very long conversations with people afterwards that I desperately wanted to dunk on and now the moment has passed, who very earnestly said that if you call Twitter, Twitter, and not X, that that’s this, that’s akin to deadnaming.

[01:04:19] Christina: And, um,

[01:04:20] Brett: fuck

[01:04:20] Christina: and, and, and that, exactly. And that’s the sort of, that’s the sort of Tumblr, like, internet eating your brains. That’s the sort of 2014 Tumblr bullshit that I love and I adore. But I also really want to dunk on, like, And, and the only thing is, like, 2014 Tumblr, you’d have those unhinged stuff and you could absolutely dunk on them and nobody would come at you.

[01:04:39] Christina: There are some of my Mastodon followers who would be like, You’re punching down, you’re being mean. I don’t care, honestly, if you’re that unhinged, if you’re that dumb, like, I feel like we should all be able to call you out on being a fucking psycho. But, um, I do love moments like that on Mastodon, I’m like, never change, you, you weirdo, like, far too left to be actually useful, like, [01:05:00] fuckers, um, it’s, it’s akin to deadnaming, um, for that reason alone, I’m never gonna call Twitter

[01:05:06] Jeff: Wait, what is deadnaming? I don’t know. I feel so

[01:05:09] Brett: It’s when you call someone who’s transitioned genders by their old name.

[01:05:15] Jeff: Oh, Jesus. Okay. Yes. I know this phenomenon. I did not realize it was called that name.

[01:05:19] Brett: Which is a ridiculous comparison to renaming a corporate brand.

[01:05:24] Jeff: Yes,

[01:05:24] Christina: and on every level, it’s, they’re like, oh, this is respecting this and that. I’m like, okay, there’s

[01:05:29] Brett: Respect for whom?

[01:05:31] Christina: exactly. And then, and then, then, uh, like you, like, this person, like, they got into like, maybe I’ll actually put the, put the thread, um, of this in the show notes, because it was truly remarkable.

[01:05:41] Christina: They got into like, yeah, A lot of people had, like, very good faith conversations with this person, who, again, was not shitposting, was being completely earnest and honest about this. Like, they thought through a lot of things and were just very committed to this. And it wasn’t a bit. If this had been a bit and they were committed to it, I would have found it hilarious.

[01:05:56] Christina: But they weren’t. This is not a bit. This is actually genuine. And I’m, like, [01:06:00] horrified, but also sort of obsessed. Anyway, um, Ivory’s great. Love it.

[01:06:07] Jeff: Awesome. Oh, Jeff. Um, last week, uh, Jay and, and prior to that, Christina had mentioned the ARC browser. Um, and, and I finally gave it a shot because I do, I, well, I’ll just say like, I’m repeating, but I also want to talk about it one particular feature. Um, it is, who’d have thought that you could be awesome. Utterly stimulated, even overstimulated, by the reimagining of the browser. And, and that is what happened to me. And I, and I’m still, you know, part, so I have this like really hard balance, which is, it’s so much fun to play with it that the part of me that tries to tweak everything and then doesn’t get shit done.

[01:06:48] Jeff: is, is like, is really activated, especially with this feature I want to talk about, which is so cool, but which I have to keep my hands off of, which is Boost, which allows you to basically, I mean, you [01:07:00] can customize how a site looks in like developer mode on any browser, right? But it allows you to kind of save your customizations so that you can change any website.

[01:07:08] Jeff: In any way you need to, um, and leave it that way for anytime you go to it. And so doing that almost killed me. Cause the first thing I wanted to do was change Hacker News, which someone has done, you can use their boost, but I was like, Oh my God, my first thought was like Hacker News, like I can make it bigger so I can read it, I can take it.

[01:07:24] Jeff: So the part that I love in there that isn’t unhealthy for me is inside of these. This boost functionality are zaps and with zaps, you can basically highlight any type of element on the page and you can just say, I don’t want to see this. You don’t want to see that one, or you don’t want to see all elements like it.

[01:07:38] Jeff: And that is so fun to play with because you can really simplify sites. I did that with Hacker News for sure. I, I zapped a ton of data under each link. Cause I just don’t, I don’t engage at that level. I don’t care that it’s being voted up or how many times I get it. It’s on the homepage. Right. Um, And I had so much fun and I really think I should probably block out some time for myself to just, [01:08:00] without guilt or shame, play with ARK, but nice work fucking re imagining the browser, my god, it’s like re imagining the bed, it’s like, what the fuck?

[01:08:10] Christina: No, I, I And, and I love the, I love the workspaces stuff. Like that’s where I can also lose like a shitload of time by just like customizing every workspace for all the little features and things that I want. Like this is what model I’m in, which for me works a lot better than profiles. Um, Because I have a million browser windows open always.

[01:08:27] Christina: But if I have, you know, certain things, yeah, I really like Arc and I haven’t played, I haven’t played with the boost stuff because I didn’t know what it did. To be honest, I didn’t look into it. And now this is going to be a thing that I look into and play

[01:08:39] Jeff: it’s so fun, um.

[01:08:41] Christina: it.

[01:08:42] Jeff: Alright.

[01:08:43] Christina: All right, my pick, and I don’t think I’ve ever given this one before, but it’s called Lossless Cut, and it is a kind of a front end for ffmpeg for editing like mp4 or other sorts of files losslessly.

[01:08:58] Christina: So like if you needed to cut [01:09:00] out like 20 minutes at the beginning of a video or 20 minutes in the middle, you could use QuickTime for that. And QuickTime Pro, RIP, QuickTime 7 Pro. Used to be even better, where if you needed to do, and again, I don’t want to open up my NLE, I don’t want to open up, you know, Final Cut or Premiere or whatever, I’m wanting to do this losslessly, I don’t want to have to re encode, I’m just needing to move like the, you know, trims a certain part of it.

[01:09:24] Christina: I can do a lot of this in QuickTime, but I can’t do, like, More hyper specific things, or if I want to like combine a cut where I’m like, okay, I’m going to, you know, grab these two parts out, but then I’m going to keep the rest of it. Um, Lossless, uh, cut lets you do that. The interface is not great. It’s, this is open source.

[01:09:41] Christina: Um, it’s available for all platforms. I think that it’s written in some sort of either Python thing or in, um, you know, it’s, it’s not written in kind of a native thing. So the interface… It’s not great. I don’t care. It gets the job done. It’s free. This is like the sort of good open source software shit that [01:10:00] I’m glad exists and that, you know, um, I, I do wish that maybe like a, a, a, a good like Mac designer, um, um, uh, you know, coder would step in and, and help with this.

[01:10:13] Christina: Um, it’s kind of like, it’s better than Colibri, which is, It’s a fucking monstrosity of a piece of software, but also necessary. And so I’m grateful for that guy, but I’m also like, God, this is a piece of shit. But I’m also like, but there’s nothing else and you’ve done all this work for free. So thank you for this, you know, book, e reader software.

[01:10:32] Christina: It’s better than that. But like. That’s a low bar. Um, but this is, this is my pick of the week because I needed to do some stuff where again I did not want to have to transcode. I did not want to have to re encode. Which when I take things into my NLE I have to, and even with, you know, M1 processors, M1 maxes, like, that takes time to, you know, export those files.

[01:10:54] Christina: And it’s stupid if you’re literally just taking something from the middle or taking something from the top or [01:11:00] bottom. So,

[01:11:01] Jeff: Yeah.

[01:11:02] Christina: Lossless Cut is, uh, is my pick.

[01:11:04] Jeff: It looks awesome. Wow. Um, cool. I’m gonna play with that. Uh, just a final word. Um, school’s starting up, or it has in some places, and I just wanna salute all you teachers out there. Cause holy shit. Thank you. Especially if you’re good. Hehehe.

[01:11:23] Brett: I saw a really interesting video on… Um, Christian homeschool parents who made the decision to send their kid to public school and like the top reasons that like led them to trust public schools even though like a lot of far right Christian churches are very… I’m scared of public schools, uh, convinced that they are factories of the devil for churning out atheist children.

[01:11:58] Brett: Um, if I [01:12:00] can find that video, I’ll link it,

[01:12:01] Jeff: Okay.

[01:12:03] Brett: but yes, it was in support of, of teachers and our hardworking, especially public school teachers who, who, uh, are doing their best to raise up smart, critically thinking children.

[01:12:19] Jeff: And the private school teachers who bust their asses well sometimes. And maybe get paid

[01:12:24] Brett: No,

[01:12:25] Christina: Uh, no, they usually get paid worse, actually. They actually usually get paid worse.

[01:12:28] Brett: no shade on

[01:12:29] Jeff: yes, the public school, I mean, just to say, like, my sons are going into their school that has no air conditioning, it’s gonna be almost a hundred all week next week, we were in there to see his classes. Last week, each teacher has about six industrial sized fans, um, so public school teachers, it’s different.

[01:12:45] Jeff: I see that. It’s different. And thank you. Extra thank you because you are in the trenches.

[01:12:52] Brett: All right.

[01:12:53] Jeff: Awesome. Get some sleep, teachers.

[01:12:55] Brett: to see you.

[01:12:56] Christina: you. Good seeing all of you.

[01:12:57] Brett: Get some sleep.

[01:12:58] Jeff: Get some sleep.

[01:12:59] Christina: Get some sleep, [01:13:00] everybody.