Den of Iniquity

[00:00:00] Christina:

[00:00:02] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired, a podcast about people who are tired. And, uh, d h d. I’m Christina Warren. Um, right now, this is a great, uh, episode for, uh, for, for you to join us for, because Mr. Brett Terpstra is very tired. He has not slept. Um, uh, Jeff Severance Gunzel is in Africa, so he’s, I don’t

[00:00:26] Brett: Prob probably not sleeping.

[00:00:28] Christina: probably not sleeping.

[00:00:30] Christina: And, and our guest, Aaron Dawson, you are, you are hungover, which I think is like very related to tired in many cases.

[00:00:38] Christina: So, um, I’m like the only one, I guess who, who’s not that tired, but,

[00:00:45] Brett: That’s unusual.

[00:00:46] Christina: It is unusual. Um, so anyway, th this is our show. Welcome to Overtired to everyone.

[00:00:51] Brett: You do seem perky.

[00:00:52] Christina: Yeah.

[00:00:53] Brett: Yeah, I like, I like perky. Christina.

[00:00:56] Christina: Perky. Christina is a, is definitely better than like, bitchy, like, [00:01:00] you know, like tired, hangry Christina. For sure.

[00:01:04] Brett: Yeah. So Erin, why are you hungover?

[00:01:07] How to spend 6 drink tickets

[00:01:07] Erin: Oh, I thought you’d never ask. I, um, I have a one person medal band called Genital Shame, and I, it’s not o always only me. I toured US and Canada with a full band, like less than a month ago, uh, for which I took off work and it was great. And so I played like to a backing track, uh, and afterwards, um, so I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the Paris of southwest pa. Everyone knows that. And so I traveled to Morgantown where I went to college, uh, Morgantown, West Virginia. Um, and so afterwards, cuz you get drink tickets, right? Uh, Brett, you’ve played live shows.

[00:01:54] Erin: I don’t know about you Christina, but one of the great things about playing live is you get drink tickets. And so [00:02:00] that’s step zero, um, to my, my fate. Uh, and

[00:02:06] Brett: drink tickets did you get?

[00:02:09] Erin: so you get six one qualifies.

[00:02:13] Christina: That’s a lot. That’s

[00:02:14] Brett: That’s so

[00:02:15] Erin: generous. So one.

[00:02:17] Christina: these are like full pores. Like they weren’t like watering your shit down.

[00:02:22] Erin: No, no, absolutely not. One gets you a P B R or similar, two gets you pretty much everything else. For me, it’s a Nette and Coke. That’s, that’s my drink.

[00:02:33] Brett: What’s Fornet?

[00:02:35] Christina: That’s,

[00:02:35] Erin: It’s a,

[00:02:36] Christina: that’s like a whiskey.

[00:02:38] Brett: Okay.

[00:02:39] Erin: it’s not a French drink, it’s an Italian liquor. Um.

[00:02:43] Christina: Oh yeah, I’ve had Fernet. Yeah, that’s, it comes in like a special kind of bottle or whatever.

[00:02:47] Erin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And after the show, uh, went and saw drag, um,

[00:02:54] Brett: sure.

[00:02:54] Erin: a drag show. So, you know, gay bars. Gay bars are great because the drinks are really [00:03:00] bad and they’re really overpriced, but they’re really cold. Like I’m looking for a,

[00:03:06] Brett: You’re really selling it.

[00:03:08] Erin: yeah. Um, but drag

[00:03:11] Brett: have no other reason to go to a drag bar, show up for these overpriced but very cold drinks.

[00:03:18] Erin: And I love the smell of bleach, which I feel like most, most gay bars feature and my absolutely not researched. Uh, take on that is probably due to like after the, during and after the AIDS crisis, um, gay bars get this, um, reputation as a sort of den of not just inequity, but also for like, like disease Yes.

[00:03:47] Erin: Virus. And so if you make the senses, if the first impression is like, oh, clean, then you’re more likely to feel comfortable. That’s, I have never heard anyone say that. I do not know if that is true. [00:04:00] Um, but I love it.

[00:04:00] Christina: maybe. I mean, that is great. I was gonna say, I. I, because when I would think of like the d inequity with like the, the virus, I would think of, um, bathhouses, which incidentally there was one, like I can see it from my apartment. And, uh, that, that’s,

[00:04:15] Erin: steam rising from,

[00:04:16] Christina: Yeah. Basically, well, it, it, it is called steam works and, and no, but I, I can like lit, I can, I can literally see it from my, uh, from, from my apartment.

[00:04:24] Christina: Um, so that’s what I always think, um, is, uh, is that, but yeah, I think you might make a good point, and I have a feeling bathhouses too is like

[00:04:32] Erin: mm-hmm.

[00:04:32] Christina: cleanliness would be the, the first thing that you would wanna do in, in a place that feels like it’s quasi legal as a concept. Just being honest, like even putting the whole, like, you know, spreading the disease thing aside, it does feel weird that there’s a place that you pay a cover and can basically just like fuck random people, like in quasi public.

[00:04:57] Christina: I mean, I love it too. I’m just surprised that we [00:05:00] were, we were a country found up of Puritan. I, I am surprised that this is like a thing that has ever been legal in this country. That’s all. Like, I’m not, I’m not against it. I’m just saying that, that seem, that seems like a very European thing. Doesn’t seem like a Super American thing.

[00:05:14] Erin: Totally true. Speaking of cleanliness, the hotel I stayed in last night, I’ve never seen this before. This hotel was a little fancy. They had the TV remote in a plastic bag,

[00:05:25] Christina: Oh, yeah,

[00:05:26] Erin: makes me feel, I don’t watch hotel TV usually. Really? Um, but that makes me feel good, keeping up with the illusion of no one has ever stayed here.

[00:05:35] Erin: You are the first person to do that. We just got this out of the Amazon, a three box or whatever. It’s for you,

[00:05:43] Christina: Yeah.

[00:05:44] Brett: change the plastic bag? Because if you don’t change the plastic bag, then it’s the same as having a dirty remote.

[00:05:53] Christina: I don’t know. This was, that was the covid thing that they started doing.

[00:05:57] Brett: Okay.

[00:05:59] Erin: The idea to me [00:06:00] is the plastic bag tells you that someone has removed the remote, wiped it down with one of those things you get when you eat wings

[00:06:07] Christina: Yep.

[00:06:08] Erin: does. In fact, it wipes. I guess they’re called

[00:06:10] Brett: Towelette.

[00:06:11] Christina: A moist towelette.

[00:06:12] Erin: a very moist, but not too moist because it’s an electronic device. Yeah. And then you put it back in the bag.

[00:06:20] Erin: But you’re saying maybe they just replace the bag and they don’t worry about disinfect. I don’t know.

[00:06:26] Brett: Wait, so what? To use it, you pull it out from the bag.

[00:06:31] Erin: Correct.

[00:06:32] Brett: So you are seeing the bag as like a, A safety tab? Like a pro? Yes. Like something that was replaced be that indicates that it had been cleaned.

[00:06:44] Erin: It’s telling you a story.

[00:06:46] Brett: my head you are using the pla, the remote through a plastic bag.

[00:06:51] Christina: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’s not how it works.

[00:06:54] Erin: I would

[00:06:54] Christina: could, but

[00:06:55] Erin: to be extra safe.

[00:06:57] Christina: no, cuz I’ve seen these. No, cuz the, the way [00:07:00] it’s designed is basically to, it was a covid thing and it’s like, cuz I never, I mean, it’s possible. People did it before Covid. I never saw it before.

[00:07:07] Christina: Covid. And so I think the idea is to show that they have been. To, to Erin’s Point took like the, the disinfectant towelette, like, I’m not even gonna say the one that you use for wings. I’m gonna say like, the one that, like, it’s not a makeup wipe, but it’s the one that has like some antiseptic on it. Like, it’s basically like isopropyl alcohol, like on a little pad.

[00:07:26] Christina: Like it’s, it’s the one that would come in the bag to clean your camera lens, right? Like, like it’s one of those things. And so they would use that, they would wipe over the remote and then they would have a plastic bag, which I’m sure is probably a one-time use thing that they would put it in, put tape on it, and then put it on the um, uh, you know, armoire or whatever.

[00:07:47] Christina: So that when people come in, they’re like, oh, we’ve actually gone through the steps and cleaned this room. And for me, what would make me feel better about the cleanliness wouldn’t even be the fact that like the, you know, remote is in the bag, [00:08:00] but if they went through all those steps, because if you went through all those steps, then to me it’s much more likely that you actually did like, Dust and vacuum and change the sheets and that I’m not sleeping on someone else’s like, you know, bodily fluids

[00:08:14] Brett: Yeah. Okay. Okay, so you got, you got six drink tickets and apparently it costs two tickets to get something other than shitty beer. So you start with a A something in Coke.

[00:08:30] Christina: for nut and coke.

[00:08:32] Brett: Yes. And, and then what happens?

[00:08:35] Erin: The best usage of six drink tickets to me is two cocktails. Although I learned recently a Fernet and Coke doesn’t even qualify as a cocktail, cuz a cocktail requires three things. To be a cocktail. Much like in music, you need three notes to make a chord. Anything else is just an interval. [00:09:00] You need, um, a spirit, you need a citrus component and you need a bass.

[00:09:06] Erin: Anything else is just a mixed drink.

[00:09:08] Christina: I was gonna say I did, I, I, I didn’t know the exact like thing, but I would’ve described what you got. Not as a cocktail, but as a mixed drink.

[00:09:16] Erin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:17] Christina: yeah.

[00:09:18] Erin: And then to me, I feel like this might say a lot about a person, like how would you spend six drink tickets? What is the biggest bang for the buck for me? And this is how I would do it, and how I did do it two mixed drinks, or two cocktails, two PBRs,

[00:09:34] Christina: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:35] Brett: Sure.

[00:09:36] Erin: right. And then to the gay bar where I get.

[00:09:39] Brett: front load. Front load with the cocktails. Chase with the P B R and then head to the gay bar.

[00:09:47] Erin: And this was my error, right? Because I mixed liquor, beer with liquor. And now I’m sicker because I went to the gay bar. You don’t really drink beer at a gay bar.

[00:09:57] Christina: No, no, no, no. You drink cocktails. I was gonna [00:10:00] say, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that’s when, that’s when you’re drinking, you’re, you’re really overpriced cosmopolitans or vodka cranberries or whatever, and the screwdriver. Yeah. Which are great. Or you know, whatever, uh, something to receive. For me, it’s usually like a, a cranberry component.

[00:10:16] Christina: And, um, and you find out that they, they cost $15 and then at that point, you’re so drunk, you don’t care and you order five more. Um, not that that’s ever happened to me at gay bars before. Um, and then that’s completely happened to me. Um, and, uh, and you’re just like, but I don’t care. I’m,

[00:10:33] Erin: And what’s more,

[00:10:34] Christina: drinks.

[00:10:35] Christina: Yeah,

[00:10:36] Erin: And what’s more, they had like the, um, scantily clad women with the little trays with shots on them. The shots are $5. They taste like an icicle. Oh, really?

[00:10:49] Brett: bar there, scantily clad women at the gay bar.

[00:10:53] Christina: Sure. Girl.

[00:10:54] Erin: Oh, yes.

[00:10:55] Brett: I must have grown up in a different era.

[00:10:59] Erin: It’s a [00:11:00] very diverse.

[00:11:00] Christina: I was gonna say at this point, gay bars are a lot more diverse. I, I, but, but, and, and, uh, yeah, I used to be a shooter girl. Actually, that’s the only type

[00:11:09] Brett: What does that

[00:11:10] Christina: that, that is those girls who sell the shots. Because how, what, how that works is that you pay $3 for the shots and then you can sell them for whatever you can sell them for.

[00:11:18] Christina: So it’s a game of arbitrage. So depending on, on like how hot you look and how good you are selling things, depends on how much you

[00:11:25] Brett: and how drunk the customers are.

[00:11:27] Christina: yes. Um, but, but you have to sell, but you have to buy the entire tray upfront. So like, I have to pay 50 bucks or whatever upfront, and then I have to make, and then whatever profit I make, I keep, but yeah.

[00:11:42] Christina: So.

[00:11:43] Brett: idea that is. I had no idea. This is, this is all news to me. My drink at gay bars, actually my drink at First Avenue too, like I loved, I knew a girl who was a bartender at [00:12:00] First Avenue and she gave me my drinks for free. And what I would always order was a triple tequila sunrise,

[00:12:09] Christina: Oh my God. I can’t drink a tequila at all, but, but, uh,

[00:12:13] Brett: but a tequila sunrise is like peach. I don’t even remember what else in a tequila sunrise. But it’s very fruity. It’s very fruity. So,

[00:12:23] Christina: yes, it is. Yeah, I, the, the, I do remember that. I just, I can’t, I, I cannot drink any tequila at all. Even the smell of it, I’m just like, Nope.

[00:12:32] Erin: Going back to the shooter girl arbitrage thing, like it seems like the difficulty in that for me would be when to move on from engaging with a customer. Because you wanna have a reputation of someone who’s flirty, which is like half the battle, I would assume, but it’s in your best interest to keep those interactions brief.

[00:12:54] Erin: So yeah, it’s very diplomatic. Probably kind of.

[00:12:57] Christina: No, it is, it’s a diplomatic thing. Thank you so [00:13:00] much. Here you go. You know, move on to the next person and then maybe if they, if they wanna buy more, if they wanna engage, fine. Like if sometimes, like if somebody buys a whole tray, which will happen sometimes it’ll be like, I’ll give you a hundred bucks.

[00:13:11] Christina: You know, so they’re gonna pay double or whatever. Okay. You know, st stand around and talk for a few minutes and then give them the tray and then you’d be like, I’ve gotta go get more, you know, when I’ll see you, see you in a little bit. And then like, Not, you know, um, so yeah, it, there, you’re right, there is like that level to it.

[00:13:28] Christina: But, but it totally depends. And yes, there will be people who will buy the whole tray, you know, for, for them and their, and their, their boys or for themselves or whatever. And you’re just like, Hey, I’m not the one who has to, you know, check any of that. That’s not on me. Um, yeah. Yeah. That was the only

[00:13:45] Brett: At what age should you do this?

[00:13:48] Christina: like 20 to 22.

[00:13:50] Brett: Okay.

[00:13:51] Christina: It was like a, it was like a, not a super frequent thing. It would be like a, an occasional kind of, um,

[00:13:57] Brett: But it’s the kind of job you can just walk [00:14:00] in and be like, I’m your, I’m your shock girl for the night.

[00:14:04] Christina: So my, my older sister worked in, um, uh, bars and stuff and, and she was actually a very good bartender. See, this is what I loved about it. I didn’t have to be a bartender. I just had to like look hot and be flirty and, and be good at arbitrage, which that is actually what I’m, I’m good at. Like, I was good at the sales part.

[00:14:20] Christina: Um, and, and she needed somebody to help out, basically. One of her girlfriends like probably got too drunk or something, and so she was like, literally like at her last end. And so she was like, I will call my baby sister. And I was like, I need some cash. It’s the same way that I was a booth babe once, um, which was an awful experience, but

[00:14:40] Brett: you say I need some cash or I need some hash.

[00:14:43] Christina: cash.

[00:14:43] Christina: Cash, um, I, yeah, I, I, yeah, I was gonna say, I, I don’t, I didn’t do, I didn’t do drugs or anything then. Um, and uh, yeah, but that was the exact same way that I was a booth, uh, a booth babe once was because, um, one of Kelly’s friends. Bitched out. And uh, so I had to do a thing for a [00:15:00] pharmaceutical company and I was like, the money was not worth it.

[00:15:04] Christina: And it was a lot of money. It was like, not like what the booth PAs at CES and things like that would be paid, like the pharmaceutical reps paid a lot more, but I was like, not, not into this. So I think usually you’d have to show up and probably like for to be, you do have to have a liquor license, um, to, uh, to, to be a shooter girl.

[00:15:24] Christina: But like it’s a one page form. Like it takes no time. Like it’s literally nothing. But you don’t have to mix any drinks. You’re literally just buying shots and then selling them for a higher price unless it’s a really slow night or something’s fucked. And then you could potentially have to sell them like lower.

[00:15:41] Christina: And that’s why, that’s why you’re nice to the guys who like will buy the full trays. And it is always guys who buy the full trays, like girls don’t. I mean, they will buy stuff, but they won’t, they, they won’t spend that type of money.

[00:15:52] Brett: All right. Side, side, side anecdote. I was at c e s one year and I was at a Nikon booth [00:16:00] and there were half dressed women on like a runway of sorts, and one of them stops and goes, Brett, I, it turns out, turns out I had a cousin who was a booth aid. Anyway, all right, back to the story. I feel like we haven’t reached the,

[00:16:23] Christina: The

[00:16:23] Brett: far. So far. We’re at a couple cocktails and a couple PBRs, which for me that’s, I’m, I wake up the next morning, I’m fine. So where do we go from here?

[00:16:34] Erin: I think the,

[00:16:38] Erin: the real fatal error that I made was staying up until three 30. That, I mean, it’s, it’s that easy or that simple, right? Um, and, and was like my college town or like going to grad school and everything. And so like I

[00:16:52] Brett: been to grad school, what degree do you have?

[00:16:56] Erin: Rhetoric, basically English.

[00:16:59] Brett: [00:17:00] English. You have a

[00:17:01] Erin: Professional. I have a ma Yeah. I studied music for, uh, undergrad and I, here’s, here’s the, the program, right? English colon professional writing and editing. p w e. But I wanna say something real quick about hash, about which I know nothing. I,

[00:17:20] Brett: This is such an D H D conversation.

[00:17:24] Erin: well, I wanted to say it earlier, but you

[00:17:26] Christina: No, no, no. Please, please interject.

[00:17:28] Erin: your cousin. Um, this is the stupidest thing I’m about to say. Um, I wanna get a rumor started that hash got that name as a drug because it gives you a similar dopamine rush as eating hash browns,

[00:17:44] Christina: Huh? I, you know what? I, I could believe that, I could

[00:17:48] Erin: cuz hash browns give me a lot of dopamine. Anyways, so, Went

[00:17:53] Christina: love a hash brown. If, if, if hash were more like hash browns, I’d be more into hash. I’m not gonna

[00:17:58] Erin: this is what I’m saying. [00:18:00] What do you call people who are addicted to hash

[00:18:03] Brett: why Google? Why is it called hash?

[00:18:08] Erin: But to close the loop on this, on this night out, I, I went to like the college pizza place and got some slices and then went to bed way too late. And that’s, you know,

[00:18:19] Christina: And, and now that’s when you like, discover that like you’re, you’re not actually 25 anymore. And then,

[00:18:25] Erin: Oh dear. Yeah, that is true.

[00:18:28] Christina: Yeah, that, that used to happen with me when I would go out with my interns and, and I would be like, I did it a few times and I was like still able to completely hang and they were all like 10 years younger than me and I was like, fuck yeah, I’m so cool.

[00:18:40] Christina: And then like there was like one night when it, it, it did not at all. Like I think, I think I puked in the cab, so I had to pay like the $70, like, like cleanup fee, which, you know, whatever. Like not the first time that somebody’s ever puked in a New York City cab. Like, probably not in the first time, but, but might not, you know, that day exactly.

[00:18:59] Christina: I was gonna be like, I [00:19:00] was like, you you, you pay the fee, you’re fine. Whatever. Um, and uh, better a cab than an Uber. Cuz those, those fuckers are stingy from what I understand. But um, you know, and so it was one of those scenarios and then I was just like, So hungover the next day. And I was like, oh, wow. You were, you were actually not 22 anymore.

[00:19:17] Christina: Um, which was very depressing for me to have to come to that realization. But yeah, the, the late night going to the pizza place. Now, did that help with your hangover? Cuz For me, it usually does, depending on what time I stopped drinking. Like, depending on when I stopped drinking. If I get food in my system, that usually does help with the hangover.

[00:19:35] Erin: did. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes.

[00:19:38] Christina: good girl. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m proud of you for that because

[00:19:41] Erin: you. Thank you.

[00:19:42] Christina: there’s

[00:19:42] Erin: easy to forget to eat

[00:19:44] Christina: it is, it is now.

[00:19:47] Erin: will do this again.

[00:19:48] Christina: Yeah. Now I have like a very strict rule that I learned again from the, uh, older sister who, um, was like a, a bad, well no, actually these were very good life lessons, but like, she taught me [00:20:00] because I, um, especially back then, like.

[00:20:03] Christina: Didn’t weigh a whole lot. And so even though I had like a pretty high tolerance, like there’s a certain point when you’re like, you’re just gonna throw up. Cuz it’s just a, it’s just a body weight issue. And so I would have a thing, like if I puked like before 12, then it’s like a puke and rally. Like you continue to drink and you continue to go.

[00:20:22] Christina: But if it’s like after 12, 12 30, then it’s like you’ve gotta call it a night. Otherwise you’re gonna have like the hangover from hell the next day.

[00:20:29] Erin: What rhymes with 12 beer? Beer before. Liquor never. Sicker. Puke. Be before 12. Wake up.

[00:20:38] Christina: Well

[00:20:40] Erin: S n l, what’d you say?

[00:20:42] Brett: elf.

[00:20:43] Christina: Wake of elf.

[00:20:44] Erin: Pick up an elf.

[00:20:45] Christina: Wake of an elf. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. No, but that, that was, uh, I, I was, I was reminding my, my sister, um, about that a few months ago about the, the puke and rally and she was like, I did not teach you that. I’m like, yes, you did. And she was like, yes, I [00:21:00] did.

[00:21:00] Erin: Yeah.

[00:21:02] Brett: Puke before 12 into darkness. You delve.

[00:21:07] Erin: Whoa.

[00:21:10] Brett: So,

[00:21:10] Erin: wait because wait. Puking four 12 is good.

[00:21:13] Christina: Yes. That’s

[00:21:13] Brett: Oh, puke before 12 into health. You, I don’t know. Fuck.

[00:21:19] Christina: puke after 12 into darkness.

[00:21:21] Erin: D.

[00:21:21] Christina: See, that would be good.

[00:21:23] Brett: Okay, so I hate to interrupt this story. We gotta do a sponsor break.

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[00:22:49] Christina: Not

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[00:24:52] Hash Browns

[00:24:52] Brett: Yeah, I feel like, I feel like I, I got through that. Were you worried? Were you worried about me?

[00:24:58] Christina: That was a little bit, but no, I [00:25:00] think, I think you nailed it. And, uh, thank you Factor

[00:25:02] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. We, we, we, we appreciate sponsorships are lean right now,

[00:25:09] Christina: sponsorships are real lean right now. See, we, we need, if we need, like, honestly, like if, if the sponsors were just willing to offer us drink tickets, like I’d be get some pvs, you know, two mixed drinks. Uh, but I do have to say, I think that you did like nail like the, the balance of how to get the most bang for your buck, like getting like two, two beers.

[00:25:30] Christina: Um, or like in my case, I would try to see like, would they, well, I guess this is the question. Would they give you a white claw? Like could you get a white claw in, in, in exchange for P B R.

[00:25:40] Erin: I think so. I think

[00:25:41] Christina: Okay. Cuz that’s what I would do. I would do, I would do like two white claws, um, or, or another sorts of like, you know, like alcoholic seltzer and, and then, um, uh, two mixed drinks or, or cocktails

[00:25:54] Erin: That is a, that’s a great way to divvy it up, just to close the loop on addictive [00:26:00] substances and otherwise, why is it called hash? Did you figure that out? Brett?

[00:26:04] Brett: I did not. I looked up, I, I googled I duck dot, go. Uh, Why is it called hash? And I got a bunch of stuff about hashtags and then one about about why like breakfast. Breakfast is called hash.

[00:26:22] Christina: Yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m trying to figure this out right now. Um, to see like the, uh, cuz it. I think that, okay. This is what I think that it is. It’s, it’s technically, it’s hashish and, and it comes from, um, uh, north India, Nepal have a long social tradition in the production of Hashish, um, uh, known as Charo.

[00:26:43] Christina: And then the, the term Hashish was used in a pamphlet published in Cairo 1123 Ce, accusing the Zari Muslims of being Hashish eaters. And then that led to some other things. I think that it was just, I think it [00:27:00] just has to be because it’s a, it’s the shorter version. I think it’s, I think that’s boring, but I think that’s what it’s,

[00:27:07] Erin: Is that an opioid thing or a a opium flower thing? Like what? I don’t even know what it is. Sorry. This is not what this podcast is it?

[00:27:15] Brett: is is weed. That’s, there’s an extraction process that turns it into like a concentrated, uh, Yeah, I don’t know that much about hash,

[00:27:27] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say, I’m like, yeah, I was gonna say, I was like looking into this whole thing and, uh, yeah. Okay. I, let me just, actually, let me Google. Why is Hashish

[00:27:39] Brett: This is great radio.

[00:27:41] Christina: It is great Radio. Um, I did find a short history that we, I we’re gonna link it in the show notes. You can read it. I’m not gonna read it on the air, but you, you, but you, but you can read it in the show notes.

[00:27:52] Christina: But there’s a sh there is in fact a short history sponsored by Kinon, so you know it’s gonna be good[00:28:00]

[00:28:00] Erin: Where’s everyone on this podcast? Stand on the great hash brown versus home fries debate. I’m kidding. I don’t really wanna talk about that. I mean, obviously

[00:28:08] Christina: I’m sorry, I’m, I’m sorry. It’s hash browns and I think that anybody who says home fries, i i, you, you’re kicked out of the table. You’re not allowed to

[00:28:14] Brett: fries? What? What does home fries mean? Is this.

[00:28:19] Christina: you know, you know, they’re like the, you know, home fries. They’re like little

[00:28:21] Brett: I don’t, I’m, I’m from Minnesota and I’ve never heard of home fries. I’ve heard of hot dish. I know what a casserole is.

[00:28:29] Christina: no, no. Ho Home fries are like the, like the potato, they’re like the fries that ha still have like the skins on the back and aren’t really fries. They’re like the potato kind of bits things. And then they put them in the skillet.

[00:28:40] Erin: You dice a

[00:28:41] Brett: people eat them for breakfast

[00:28:42] Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:43] Erin: sure.

[00:28:44] Brett: Okay. Yeah. I can’t, I can’t weigh in on this because I’ve only ever had hash browns for breakfast.

[00:28:53] Christina: Yeah, I, um, yeah, I definitely, so yeah, it’s more like the diced potato stuff, but they still have the skins on them. We put 'em in a skillet, [00:29:00] usually with like oil and, and some seasoning. I don’t like them, and in fact, when I get them at a breakfast place, I’m usually disappointed. I’m like, do I have, can I have another potato option?

[00:29:11] Christina: Because to me it’s my least favorite potato preparation. Um,

[00:29:15] Brett: your own hash browns? Have you ever made hash browns?

[00:29:18] Christina: No.

[00:29:19] Erin: It’s difficult. You have to, um, get a mandoline and treat your potatoes that way, and then get cheese cloth, rinse, uh, squeeze all

[00:29:28] Brett: that’s, that’s the tr like you can just use a kitchen towel, but you like put 'em all in there. You roll it up and then you twist it from both ends. That learning, that changed my hash brown game, now I can make good hash browns

[00:29:42] Christina: My dad makes good hash browns. My dad also makes home fries because they’re easier to make and I’m like, I don’t want home fries. Um, my dad does make good hash browns though. Um, because he’ll do, um, uh, like what is, what is one of the, what’s the something in hash, like meal? Like there’s some [00:30:00] sort of, um, meat that goes with it.

[00:30:04] Brett: a breakfast skillet.

[00:30:06] Christina: no, but the, it’s some, it’s called something in hash. Um, um, but uh,

[00:30:13] Erin: and mash something’s in hash.

[00:30:17] Christina: but because cuz I think he uses some sort of like, uh, even like, I don’t know if like there’s a canned meat in, in involved or, or, or what, but um, But my dad, my dad makes that pretty well, and um, cuz he’s a very good cook. But yeah, I’m not into home fries. I will say this, my favorite of all of them, if I have a real option at a breakfast place, which is rare to get this option, unfortunately, but if I can get like a, a, a ta tater tot, like that’s, I love a tater tot

[00:30:48] Erin: To me that is taught food, that is toddler food. And I’m not above eating food below my age class, but breakfast, nah. But I respect,[00:31:00]

[00:31:00] Christina: yeah, no, I have the palette of a five-year-old, so it actually completely like, matches me. But like, no, I do, um, I, I’m from the south where like, I’m literally from like the city where, uh, waffle House is, was born Atlanta. And so like, Yeah, like I, I, I love, I love like a, a good like hash brown, like, especially like a scattered, like, like, you know, you, you order your, your hash browns a certain way at Waffle House.

[00:31:24] Christina: Um, I was there earlier this month for, uh, for a conference and we were waiting in line to get into a club that was where the official after party for this event was supposed to be. And it was a ridiculous line. And then they were charging a cover even for people who we’d paid like pretty expensive.

[00:31:40] Christina: Like the conference tickets were pretty expensive. And we were in line for a while. Some of my friends were already inside, and I was like, how is it? And they’re like, it’s pretty shitty. So I was like, we’re not going into this. And then I was trying to rally some people to go to a strip club, but that wasn’t working out.

[00:31:54] Christina: And so long story short, we wound up at Waffle House and it was delightful. And I wasn’t even drunk, which [00:32:00] was the most impressive part, honestly.

[00:32:02] Erin: Yeah, my,

[00:32:03] Brett: wa Waffle House when your friends won’t go to the strip club.

[00:32:06] Christina: Yeah.

[00:32:08] Erin: my plan to demean your nominally tech-based podcast with potato discourse and

[00:32:16] Christina: Are you, are you

[00:32:16] Erin: discourse is working

[00:32:18] Christina: No, I, we, we love it. Like look, we, we, we were a Taylor Swift podcast for like four years, so

[00:32:24] Erin: Oh dear,

[00:32:24] Christina: is fine.

[00:32:25] Brett: I, I like that tagline too. Nominally. Nominally. Attack podcast.

[00:32:30] Christina: I like, I really like that actually, that’s, I think that, that we need to like, put on the website

[00:32:34] Erin: yours.

[00:32:36] We should talk about tech

[00:32:36] Brett: Um, j can I interject a little bit of tech?

[00:32:39] Christina: please

[00:32:40] Brett: So, okay. I needed to test my applications on the Beta os, um, and so, This time I was not gonna make the mistake of loading a Beta os on my main machine. So I set [00:33:00] up a partition and I went to download the installer for Sonoma and somehow manage to it. Never asked me what partition to install on, like it never came up.

[00:33:19] Christina: Oh God.

[00:33:19] Brett: installed it. So now I’m left with a machine that can no longer run. Um, well it, overall it’s pretty good. Obviously all the Rogue Omega apps are not working. Um, I’m doing okay. We’re recording this podcast onset machine. Um, I could, I could install, um, what was the last one?

[00:33:45] Christina: Ventura,

[00:33:46] Brett: Then I couldn’t solve Ventura on a partition and like boot into it if it were an

[00:33:51] Christina: excuse me. It’s an a p f. It’s an p f s volume. Excuse me, A container. Excuse me. It’s an ap f s container. Um, I, I don’t care. I’m, I’m making fun of the [00:34:00] people who, who will, will yell at you about that.

[00:34:03] Brett: Fair enough. Um, but yeah, so, so. It turns out marked my, my primary commercial application. The direct version of it will not run as is on Sonoma. And I have been in, uh, a Slack channel with like the best of the best Mac developers. We’re talking Daniel Gel cut. We’re talking Rich Siegel. Like all these people are trying to help me

[00:34:35] Christina: best.

[00:34:36] Brett: Yeah, we’re trying to debug this problem and we are getting nowhere. And it’s bizarre because the Mac App store version and the set app version of the same app using the same code don’t crash. Uh, it’s just very specific to the paddle version, but compiling it without all of the framework specific to the paddle [00:35:00] version doesn’t make any difference.

[00:35:01] Brett: It still crashes every fucking time and I cannot figure it out. So that’s, that’s my tech update.

[00:35:08] Christina: Uh, that sucks. I am so sorry. Um, although, I mean, I am glad that at least you’ve like, figured this out this early in the cycle.

[00:35:16] Brett: Yeah.

[00:35:17] Christina: Like that. That’s the one kind of good news. Um, the bad news is because now they’ve, um, I think like made the betas basically like free for everybody from the get go is that you have more users who are installing this shit.

[00:35:32] Christina: And then I, I imagine that especially like some of your user base, you’re getting like support requests for things and, and it’s like,

[00:35:38] Brett: Not yet, but it

[00:35:39] Christina: it will

[00:35:40] Brett: I don’t solve this soon, it will happen.

[00:35:42] Christina: Which is annoying to me because I’m like, look, do not expect like people to have stuff supported before it officially comes out. You’ve chosen to install the beta, like, fuck you for expecting anything to work like.

[00:35:54] Christina: It’s one of the reasons why I don’t install the betas on my phone anymore, like my primary phone anymore, because a lot of financial [00:36:00] apps aren’t updated until the very end, which makes complete sense, and I completely understand that. But then I’m just kinda like, well, you know, I, I need to use my banking apps.

[00:36:08] Christina: Um, or, uh, actually how that switched was when I, when I joined Microsoft, there were some things with our M D M solution, which I used, um, I was forced to use, uh, on, on my phone that like, um, would oftentimes not work in the betas. And I would be like, well, I can either get email on my phone, which is a pseudo requirement, or I can run the latest beta, but I can’t do both.

[00:36:33] Christina: Um, so GitHub doesn’t make me install an MDM on my phone, and so I won’t. Um, but, uh, yeah.

[00:36:43] Brett: Yeah. Yep. I got a,

[00:36:45] Christina: get to figure this out.

[00:36:47] Brett: I got a new Apple watch though. I finally,

[00:36:50] Christina: you finally got a, got an eight.

[00:36:52] Brett: I had a series five and, and, and yeah, it had been working fine, so I hadn’t considered upgrading [00:37:00] it, but then the battery started to go. Um, I was having to charge more than once a day, which was for a watch that’s just untenable.

[00:37:09] Brett: So I figured it was time for an upgrade. And I got the current what series A, is that what I have? I don’t even

[00:37:16] Christina: Yeah. Series eight. Yeah. So, so, so you, you didn’t get the Ultra or whatever it’s called?

[00:37:20] Brett: no.

[00:37:20] Christina: No. Yeah. That thing is, that thing is hideous in my opinion. I know some people love it, but I find it ridiculously ugly.

[00:37:29] Brett: okay. Yeah, so,

[00:37:31] Christina: here’s the thing though.

[00:37:32] Brett: but nothing changed. It’s all the same to me.

[00:37:35] Christina: No, totally. It just, your battery’s gonna work better and it’ll last longer. Um, which is honestly, I think the best thing about the watch, uh, let me just say about the Apple Watch Ultra. The reason I think that it’s. Ugly is because it’s very clearly a men’s watch. And I think that it is, it’s a men’s watch and, and it doesn’t like work well on people who have small wrist like me, like me, a person who the smallest band is [00:38:00] sometimes borderline too big.

[00:38:02] Christina: Um, so like when I wear that thing, some people are like, oh, it kind of looks good oversized on your wrist. I’m like, Hmm, not really. Um, it’s also sort of industrial looking and that’s fine. I just, when I, when I saw them do the rollout last year, I was like, congratulations, you’ve given us a men’s watch. And like you notice that they have like, no women, like photos of, of them on it.

[00:38:24] The Titan

[00:38:24] Christina: And, uh, and it’s, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a garment sort of thing. So I’m, I’m sure that it has great features for people who care about running and, uh, going underwater. Um, that’s, that’s not me. Speaking of underwater. Okay. Kind of cop thought, but. Because the submersible for the, the Titanic, the, the, the, the, the titan, the, the Ocean Gate submersible, because that thing apparently, like, I guess it, it exploded or, or whatever.

[00:38:55] Christina: Um, imploded, sorry, imploded, um, during dissent, [00:39:00] um, because that company was like shady as fuck and they didn’t have any of the basic safety precautions, which they were not required to have by law. And, uh, James Cameron, who kept his mouth shut until it was confirmed that everybody was gone. Um, and then was giving hella interviews, which I think is the correct thing.

[00:39:19] Christina: Cause everybody wanted to hear from him because he’s weirdly like the foremost expert on this entire space. Like probably in the world. No, he’s like gone to the Mariana Trench, like he’s, he did 33 drives Titanic. He designed his own submersible, like he’s actually a legit expert on this stuff. But, but he smartly like, waited until, you know, there was, it was.

[00:39:39] Christina: Over to comment. Um, but he like pointed out all like the technical flaws they had, but they didn’t have like a black box at all. So, so one of my friends, not gonna name her, Alex Cranz, had like a really macabre thought, which was that the 19 year old [00:40:00] totally had his phone out the whole time. So like the best chance of the black box would be what is, you know, realistically probably his iPhone.

[00:40:10] Christina: So she wanted me to text someone at Apple to find out like if the phone like could survive some sort of implosion and it’d be that far down.

[00:40:19] Brett: psi. Sure.

[00:40:20] Christina: I was, I was like, I don’t think so. I was like, I, but, but I was like, but, but I wanted to pose that question for, for, for, for the pod here. Like, do you think there’s anything left of that phone?

[00:40:30] Christina: Do you think that like, if they got it, that they could like, recover anything? I’m just, just throwing it out there. Assuming that they actually, you know, had the ability, which we is completely unlikely to, you know, go through the, the wreckage and and whatnot. Do you think that if they were able to find anything with that phone that they’d be able to pull anything off of it?

[00:40:50] Erin: Yes, and I don’t even think they’d have to find any physical artifact of the phone. Let’s say that they were able [00:41:00] to have their own internet connectivity on the Titan. Let’s say if it’s an iCloud,

[00:41:07] Christina: Hmm.

[00:41:08] Erin: because let’s say you captured a video or something at the beginning or at the end, or at any part. I mean, that’s probably an M O V file somewhere, right?

[00:41:20] Brett: Yeah, I, I seriously doubt they had an internet connection at that point.

[00:41:24] Christina: Yeah. I was gonna say that that’s the problem is that they wouldn’t have had any connectivity because,

[00:41:28] Erin: Why

[00:41:29] Brett: even have radio at that point

[00:41:31] Christina: Yeah, they didn’t have,

[00:41:32] Brett: local source.

[00:41:33] Christina: the way they were communicating with, um, like the, the ship up top was through like text messages because that’s the only thing that could get through at like the low

[00:41:45] Erin: SMS message, not sms. Right,

[00:41:48] Christina: yeah. No,

[00:41:50] Erin: but don’t you, you don’t need internet connectivity for that.

[00:41:53] Christina: that’s a different, that, that, that’s, that’s wireless. That’s, that’s different. I mean like, yeah, yeah. Like, like you, you, you could, you could just have like the [00:42:00] ability to send SMS and not the ability to access like the broader internet. Um,

[00:42:05] Erin: sos so sorry.

[00:42:08] Christina: but No, but, but, but, but that, that was sort of an interesting question cuz I was like, huh, like I wonder if, you know, for sort of conditions Apple will test these things in.

[00:42:19] Christina: That just made me think of that with the watch cuz they’re like, oh, you can go deep sea diving and whatnot, you know, with, with the watch and all this and that and, and it’s like, okay, well, Is anything on that phone? Because there’s even part of it.

[00:42:34] Erin: Yeah. I mean that be, that becomes, um, that would be death pornography for which there is like this weird underground.

[00:42:43] Brett: snuff porn.

[00:42:44] Erin: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:45] Christina: Yes, it’s stuff, but yeah, it’s different. But it’s like, it’s like the, um, Timothy Treadwell tape that people like keep claiming that they found, but they haven’t. Okay. So he was the guy in Grizzly Man that the, the Werner Herzog documentary, which is great by the way, about this guy who like, was like [00:43:00] this normy kind of hippie guy who decided that he wanted to live in the woods with bears and like make programming about how like he could basically like be friends with the bears and live amongst them.

[00:43:10] Christina: And so of course a bear killed him and his girlfriend, but he was a documentarian in of himself. And so the attack was like caught on video, like not the. Video, but like, on audio. And, and Werner heard it. And, and he even told like the, the guy’s like ex-girlfriend

[00:43:28] Erin: listen to

[00:43:29] Christina: partner. Yes.

[00:43:30] Christina: He was like,

[00:43:30] Erin: must never

[00:43:31] Christina: Yes, yes. So for years this has been kind of like this like thing that people, like gross people, including myself, I’m not gonna lie that that was the first thing I googled when I saw a grizzly man in 2007. I’m not proud of it, but I am who I am.

[00:43:48] Erin: does it exist.

[00:43:50] Christina: No, no,

[00:43:51] Erin: Right. Cuz he, she destroyed it. Right.

[00:43:54] Christina: Oh yeah.

[00:43:55] Christina: Or yes, she did. Or he did. And, and, uh, but, but people keep claiming and so you’ll find [00:44:00] like fake, like, you know, videos of, of people claiming to have the Timothy tread

[00:44:05] Erin: it’s a rig roll. Ugh.

[00:44:06] Christina: basically. Or, or something else. Yeah.

[00:44:11] Erin: Yeah.

[00:44:11] Christina: That documentary is really good. I kept, I actually, I was thinking of that documentary a lot this whole week.

[00:44:15] Christina: I was like, Ooh. Cause I was like, And I know this is dark too, but I was like, okay, somebody’s gonna need to do like the, the mini series or the documentary or the whatever about this whole disaster and this whole thing. You know, like someone needs to do the, into thin air, um, of this. And, um, and I was trying to think, I was like, okay, who do we want directing this?

[00:44:36] Christina: And, and we were like, do we want it to be like Michael Bay? You know, Paul Greengrass? Like I, I, I think Peter Berg did a really good job with, um, he’s, uh, with, with one of the, the disaster things. Um, James Cameron has too many avatars to make and, and frankly, better things to do, but I was like, Ooh, I kind of wanna a Werner Herzog like documentary, uh, about [00:45:00] like this whole thing.

[00:45:02] Erin: And so we were just talking before the show. I, I just watched that, um, that film reality about reality winner and the whistleblower kind of

[00:45:13] Christina: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:14] Erin: 2017 thing. Um, so, so one thing that did. I was like, okay, so that’s like six years removed. We have some perspective on it. I don’t know where I was going with that, but where I’m going with this is that there will be, in six years when this mini series comes out, the perspective will have was that maybe billionaires are bad.

[00:45:39] Erin: But I mean, that’s the perspective we have now. And it will be a class take in the same way that White Lotus is a class a commentary. In the same way that Triangle of Sadness is a, is a class commentary. There are so many like properties with like, you know, fuck, fuck billionaires and yes. Who can’t get behind that.

[00:45:58] Erin: Um,

[00:45:59] Christina: No, I, I [00:46:00] agree. Well, yeah. Well, I was gonna say that that was So, go on. Go on.

[00:46:05] Erin: it’s just this story. I was fo I had the New York Times like live updates tab open all day. And I found, I found myself maybe like you, Christina, like really attracted, like fatally attracted, um, to the developments here because there are so many, um, there’s so many things tied up here.

[00:46:26] Erin: There is class, there is, um, the, the guy who thinks he can be better than the certification of an entire industry. There’s hu Yeah, that’s exactly right. Um, there’s the innocent son, there’s the experienced French guy. Like there’s so much to work with.

[00:46:47] Christina: there’s also the entire, like James Cameron kept pointing out when he finally started doing his media interviews, like the parallels between this and the Titanic, and then there’s the appeal of the lore of the Titanic, which obviously is why people pay the money to do these things to [00:47:00] begin with, which continues to endure a hundred and, you know, 10 years after it’s sinking and, and be one of those things that is just, I was fascinated by Titanic from the time I learned about it and, and, um, you know, as a little, little kid and, and that continues. You should read the book if you haven’t read it. Um, I, I’ve, it’s called Into Thin Air. It’s, uh, 1996 about the 1996 Everest disaster. It s preceded every single thing that we’ve seen both here and in kind of, um, extreme mountaineering where it didn’t get any better after his book. Um, and, and in a lot of these other things, because what happened, um, in 96 was this was at the kind of the beginning of the, the so-called kind of, um, like, um, uh, adventure tourism, um, market where rich people would basically pay Sherpa and, and other people to walk them up these, these great peaks and it would pay a lot of money to do it.

[00:47:54] Christina: And, um, John Krakauer, who, um, is a journalist and an author, but also a very accomplished, [00:48:00] um, uh, climber himself was offered a spot on one of the, the two big commercial expedition teams. Um, To, to kind of do a profile of things for, for outside magazine and his whole thing. He was like, I’m not just gonna write about this and, and, and do it on base camp.

[00:48:16] Christina: If I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna actually climb the mountain. And, and his, his book, which he wrote literally when he came back, and he, he didn’t, he made it up the mountain. He made it back down. He lived, but both of those, um, team leaders from, from those big exhibition teams died along with a, a number of, um, the, the participants and, and some other people were like basically left for dead.

[00:48:39] Christina: And, and it, because there, uh, um, like a, basically a hurricane happened on top of Mount Everest and it was a massive avalanche. And it, there, there’s an IMAX film about it. It was, it was a, it was a. Big fucking deal. They tried to rescue the people. It was, it was an awful situation. And because he’s an incredible writer, like he wrote this very, very raw book.

[00:48:58] Christina: Um, at first it [00:49:00] started out as an outside magazine piece, and I think they gave him the entire issue. And then he expanded that into a book. And it’s, it’s incredibly raw and, and incredibly, I think, um, uh, it’s very, very pointedly judgmental of the, um, entire like for-profit industry and the fact that people who don’t have the skills or the technique or like the ability are being carried at these mountains.

[00:49:25] Christina: And, and he wrote that in 1996, came out at the end of 96, 27 years later, the whole Everest thing has only gotten bigger and worse. And, and, and the commercialization of that mountain has only

[00:49:38] Erin: The John Oliver piece on that is so good.

[00:49:41] Christina: Yeah, it is. And, and, and so, and then you see it in other areas. And like what’s interesting about the Titanic thing was that all of the science.

[00:49:50] Christina: Scientific reasons to go down there have been exhausted. Like they, they took a 3D model, I think last, last year that they went down there. So they literally have like a perfect [00:50:00] like, um, you know, visualization of what everything is in the rec site. And so this was the only tourism outlet left. And then this was a pretty shoddy one.

[00:50:09] Christina: They were charging a lot of money, but they weren’t profitable and, and they didn’t follow a lot of the other procedures, the lot of the other submersibles follow for, for tourism things. And then as, as James Cameron and other people were pointing out, like the location of where the wreck is is a really, really difficult location.

[00:50:26] Christina: There’s a lot of debris. The weather’s really bad. Like it’s not where you wanna go on these things. And so there are like all these warning signs. But what I fear is that in six years when this mini series and these books and things come out is that you will have another or rich guy who will be convinced that he can go down and see two wrecks,

[00:50:49] Erin: And it will be a guy,

[00:50:50] Christina: Of course, of course. And, and, and that you will have like another wave of this, like unfortunately, I wish that this would lead to maybe less of these [00:51:00] things, but I think just like into thin air, uh, ironically maybe like led to a much greater like, cultural understanding of the fact that, oh, you mean I can just pay someone to walk me up these, these tall mountains, that more people are going to be aware that Oh yeah, you mean I can just pay someone to, to take me into the depths of the ocean?

[00:51:19] Erin: Rich guys want to penetrate, rich guys want to penetrate outer space with their Bezos uh, dick rocket.

[00:51:29] Brett: very foic rockets.

[00:51:31] Christina: Yep.

[00:51:32] Erin: and rich men want to penetrate the sea. Here’s a hash thought, shower thought. Okay. This is a sort of, sort of modern Icarus myth where instead of getting too close to the sun, your wings melting.

[00:51:46] Erin: Ah, help me to the ground. We are getting a little too close the other direction and our things are imploding. I don’t know. I’m still working on it, but

[00:51:59] Christina: No, I, I [00:52:00] I got where you’re going. No, but I think you, you bring up a great point, the parallels with, with space tourism. What’s interesting there, I think that, that the space tourism is weirdly, I think, a little safer just because the cost of entry is so much higher. Because we did so many, we invested so many billions, or probably close to trillions of dollars in the space race in 40 years, that the only people who can get into that space, like there’s a much higher barrier to entry.

[00:52:25] Christina: Like the, the Stockton Rush, the third guy, like he, he was not a, he was rich, but he wasn’t like Bezos. Rich, right? And it was clear because this thing was controlled by like a Logitech game pad and, and was built in a shitty way, right? Like an actual money person who builts a submersible what James Cameron built for his, you know, he, he did not do that.

[00:52:46] Christina: And so you had these rich people who just, I think to your point, like they think that they like it all and, and can just kind of in run the whole thing and it’s gonna be fine and don’t, aren’t doing due diligence makes it really [00:53:00] unsafe. Whereas bizarrely, as, as bad as I think, and I think we will have disasters in, in space tourism as we have with all space exploration.

[00:53:09] Christina: I, I almost think that like the, the barrier to entry to like even get into that space is so high that like the, the good thing for now at least is that you don’t have as many like hucksters because you, you’d have to have so much money to even get something in the, in the air. You know what I mean?

[00:53:29] Erin: Yeah. And the last thing I’ll say about this is the last, I don’t know, the 2010s had a lot of prestige television like this where you’re rooting for a complicated protagonist who is actually in this universe and very clear antagonist. Um, With these kinds of episodes, like, uh, what was the, the, like submarine getting lost in, in Thailand or whatever that was?

[00:53:55] Erin: Um, no, that, that’s not actually what I’m talking about. I, this, this [00:54:00] kind of like, there’s something, they’re on the precipice of life and death and you can root for either one kind of fairly, is the same kind of anti I’m rooting for an anti-hero. Uh, what does that say about me? And rooting for the, just desserts of someone who has this much hubris is an, a similarly complicated emotional situation where it’s like, this is such an ugly feeling.

[00:54:32] Erin: I like, fuck your video game controller. Who do you think you are? You get this, you deserve this. But it’s like, oh my God, it’s a human life. You monster.

[00:54:43] Christina: bunch of human

[00:54:44] Erin: So it’s like, I.

[00:54:45] Christina: just because they’re rich assholes doesn’t mean they deserve to die. You know, like the, the ones I felt bad for was like the French like explorer and tour guide who probably should have known better, but, you know, wasn’t paid a lot. Um, and, and then, um, like, like the

[00:54:58] Erin: by Bill Murray

[00:54:59] Brett: Yeah.

[00:54:59] Christina: [00:55:00] you know, like, yeah, totally.

[00:55:01] Christina: Yeah, you’re right. Totally play, totally be played with Bill Murray and like the 19 year old who’s just going on a thing with his dad and is not thinking anything else. Right? Like, I don’t care about the billionaire, I don’t care about the, the Pakistani, um, businessman. I don’t care about the you, uh, founder, but like the.

[00:55:20] Christina: The, the French Explorer and guide and who again, like, you know, was not paid well and, um, the, the, the teenager, I mean, I feel bad for everybody dying. Like we’d all, we’d all had hope, like

[00:55:33] Brett: Right. So like, yeah, I’m, I’m more ambivalent towards the billionaire, the millionaires. Um, but like, it’s all human life. And if you were like, they knew the risks and they still brought the kid, they still endangered the life of the tour guide, uh, or whatever you want to the, [00:56:00] the diver. Um, and, and it sucks.

[00:56:04] Brett: Like as much as I wanna be like, okay, so billionaires made of a mistake, whatever, it, it is what it is. It is there, there’s human life cost. And that that does, that does weigh on me.

[00:56:18] Erin: You know what the worst par part of this is? Is they littered. That’s at the bottom of the, that’s on the earth. That’s metal that’s not supposed to be there. Sorry,

[00:56:32] Brett: say the, I would say the same about most of our space exploration.

[00:56:36] Christina: Oh

[00:56:36] Erin: Oh God. Yet,

[00:56:38] grAPPtitude

[00:56:38] Brett: Our sky is littered. Um, we should, so Erin, I didn’t give you a heads up about gratitude. Have you listened to enough episodes to know what gratitude is?

[00:56:50] Erin: I failed to do that. I’m

[00:56:52] Christina: that’s

[00:56:52] Brett: So, so you can sit this out. What we do is we pick an app [00:57:00] or a service, or it’s pretty flexible, um, that we’re really into right now.

[00:57:08] Brett: Um, usually an indie thing

[00:57:12] Christina: Doesn’t have to be,

[00:57:12] Brett: uh, it doesn’t have to be, I think fucking last week Jeff picked Google Docs, so,

[00:57:20] Erin: I have one. I have one.

[00:57:21] Brett: it’s pretty wide open. All right, awesome. Um, Christina, are you prepared for

[00:57:27] Christina: I am not, so if you guys wanna go first, I will. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m trying to figure out what I wanna

[00:57:34] Brett: All right, well, I will kick it off. I’m picking Launch Bar this week. I can’t remember if I’ve talked about Launch Bar before. Um, it’s

[00:57:42] Christina: it again, cuz it’s great.

[00:57:43] Brett: it’s a controversial pick because there are so many great launchers, but when I think about what do I use most every day, it’s like text expander and launch bar, and it’s how I get to [00:58:00] everything.

[00:58:00] Brett: Um, so it’s a pretty simple pick. And if we’ve covered it before and I’m just forgetting, then we don’t have to go into depth on it. Uh,

[00:58:10] Christina: I mean, I think we have, but, but I, but we have, I think, but, but I, it’s worth talking about again because as you mentioned, there are like a ton of them there. There’s Ray Cast, there’s Alfred, obviously Spotlight, there’s some other things. And it’s been interesting. There’s been sort of a resurgence in the last couple of years.

[00:58:27] Brett: and Spotlight has picked up, spotlight has picked up so much functionality from its early days. From its from, its um, what was the, what, what did they Sherlock to make Spotlight. What was that called? No, no. There was something on like OS nine.

[00:58:49] Christina: Oh, Sherlock.

[00:58:51] Brett: I mean, was it Sher? Oh yeah, that’s right. That’s where the term Sherlock

[00:58:55] Christina: That’s literally where the term Sherlock

[00:58:57] Brett: they, Sherlock.

[00:58:58] Brett: Sherlock.

[00:58:58] Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, [00:59:00] yeah,

[00:59:01] Brett: Right. Watson, Sherlock. Yeah. Um, yeah. But Spotlight has come a long way, and like it has awesome, like serious suggestions, preview capabilities, all of that. But I still, I still default to Launch Bar and I was a quick, I was a Quicksilver guy, uh, when Launch Bar came out and I made the transition because Quicksilver didn’t seem like it had, um, active development going on at that point.

[00:59:34] Brett: And it kinda, it, they, they released a new version. What was it like last year

[00:59:42] Christina: Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah, they finally released a new, a new version of a, of Quicksilver. And then, um, but what I was gonna say about, um, a launch bar is that I’ve actually found, like there’s, um, um, a, a guy, um, who I think were mutuals on, on either Blue [01:00:00] Sky or on, um, Macedon, who has like a, a whole GitHub repo of all of his, um, launch bar actions and, um, So, which, which are really good.

[01:00:15] Christina: So he’s got things like, um, doing the Jira search, uh, doing action updates, you know, doing things like from from caffeinate, expanding URLs, sharing files, sharing safari links, switching audio, all kinds of stuff. Um, so I’ll, uh, I’ll, I’ll put his, his links, um, in, in the show notes for people who wanna add things cuz my only critique of Launch Bar has been because I like Launch Bar a lot, but my only critique has been that, um, And then there’s another guy, uh, this is a different one.

[01:00:48] Christina: Christian Bender was the one I was thinking of. Uh, so the other guy, uh, has, has contributed to his, um, thing, but, but Christian Bender’s who I was actually thinking of, and uh, he also has a website, um, and, uh, [01:01:00] and he’s got like tons and tons and tons of, of, um, launch bar stuff. But my only critique of Launch Bar over the years, cause I’ve always liked it, has been that the community has not been quite as robust as, as like Alfred or, or now Raycast.

[01:01:14] Christina: And, and that’s, that’s, that’s made me sad because I think it’s in many ways a superior designed app.

[01:01:20] Brett: Yeah. The Alfred community has been outstanding, like the, the number of plugins and extensions people have developed. Um, like people make launch bar extensions, but they don’t have the general, like, they don’t collect the community the way that Alfred does anyway.

[01:01:41] Christina: Yeah. All right. I’ve got one, but, but Aaron, if you have a thing you would like to share, um, uh, guest first, please.

[01:01:48] Erin: Sure thing. And this can be really quick because I just found out about this app before leaving for my show the other night. Um, and, and so maybe I have too. So [01:02:00] I have keyboard maestro, 15 years late, finally jumping on keyboard maestro. Um, love it so much already. Uh, but the app that came to mind was, again, I have not played with it really, but I’m glad it exists.

[01:02:16] Erin: Service station.

[01:02:18] Brett: What?

[01:02:19] Erin: about this? Yeah. So the, the idea is that, um, you, with Service Station, you get to customize your right click menu based on the type of file you’re clicking. Kind of like a pc. Like a pc when Windows, it’s a little smarter about what kind of files you, you’re working with. So I work, for example, with Logic a lot, and so I can now right click a file and be like, yes, open with Logic, put that at the top of the list.

[01:02:50] Erin: Um, and you could do a lot with it. That’s, that’s kind of my draw to it. Again, I haven’t played with it, but I’m really happy it exists. It looks to be [01:03:00] pretty legit. Um, so yeah. Service

[01:03:03] Brett: I just, it’s on the Mac app store. I just found this. That is, that is nice. Yes. My, my right click menu is a mess. I might check this out.

[01:03:14] Christina: I was gonna say, my right click menu is definitely a mess, so I like this a lot. Um, very cool. Okay. My pick is IA presenter, um, which is very similar to another. So it’s basically a markdown kind of based, um, presentation app from the people who made IA writer. And, um, so if you go to ia.net, it’s, it’s a, it’s a paid app.

[01:03:37] Christina: It’s a kind of a subscription right now, actually. You can do it two ways. You can buy it like a one-time thing just for Mac, um, or you can get a subscription, which is a little bit cheaper over time, and they’re, they’re promising and iOS app and, um, but, but it’s Mac only right now and it’s basically, it’s very similar to, um, what was the, um, uh, what was it called, uh, deskmate.

[01:03:58] Christina: What was the, the [01:04:00] Markdown, um, presentation app that we used to use Brett.

[01:04:03] Brett: oh. Oh. Um, something deck. Um,

[01:04:07] Christina: Um, um, DEC Mate, DECA Dset. Dset,

[01:04:11] Brett: deck set. That’s it.

[01:04:13] Christina: okay. It’s similar to Dset, but I do think that it

[01:04:15] Brett: And what’s it called again?

[01:04:16] Christina: called IA Presenter, and it’s from the same people who do IA writer. So, um, it is, uh, it’s at ia.net. Um, it’s, it they’ve got like a monthly or, or, or a yearly kind of, uh, subscription. You can also do a one-time purchase.

[01:04:33] Christina: Um, but, but like I said, the subscription, um, is going to also include a a, an iOS app, which they promise is, is coming. Um, you can try it out first. I, um, I think I, I’m doing the subscription right now, I believe, but it’s, um, it’s really, really good. It’s basically like a way to. You know, do presentations, um, really beautiful, like looking, you know, kind of text inter um, presentations using [01:05:00] markdown and, um, other tools.

[01:05:02] Christina: They’ve got a theming engine and, um, it’s, uh, it’s really, really nice. So that, that’s, that, that’s what I’ve been, uh, doing. I, I’m looking forward to giving a talk using this. I usually have to, um, well it actually varies. Sometimes I have to like, give a, give presentations using a certain theme. But now that, um, the fonts that we use at GitHub are actually open source, like we open sourced our, our branding fonts, um, it makes it easier for me in terms of like packaging stuff that I would wanna do.

[01:05:34] Christina: Cuz I could just put the cut the, the, the font file there and I wouldn’t have to like remember like the what Dropbox or, or Google Drive thing it’s on. Like if, if I don’t have it downloaded on a machine, I can just, you know, go to a website and download it. So I think this’ll make it, um, easier for me to recreate some of the, um, I guess, I guess stylistic things that I need to do at, at work using this style so I can, you know, kind of have like a, a set, uh, way of doing [01:06:00] things, um, that still are like brand appropriate, but are easier for my own, um, working, uh, process.

[01:06:07] Christina: Uh, but I really like their, their speakers view, which is like more like a teleprompter, and that has like, gives you, you know, like clear like dialogue, um, cues and, and and whatnot, which I really like. So, um, I, yeah, I’ve been playing with this, uh, for a couple weeks now and, um, it’s, it’s fairly new and I, I like it a lot.

[01:06:32] Christina: So, uh, I,

[01:06:33] Brett: really good.

[01:06:34] Christina: so IA presenter, they’ve got a free trial. Um, IA writer was as an athlete. I’ve, I’ve, I haven’t used it in a long time, but I, I have bought it, um, over the years and I’ve really, really liked it. And, and so, um, I very much appreciate their attention to, to detail for design stuff. So Dset is still great.

[01:06:52] Christina: Um, it hasn’t been updated in a long time. Um,

[01:06:56] Brett: I mean, they put out, [01:07:00] um, bug fixes, but yeah, it’s not, it’s not advancing in any significant

[01:07:06] Christina: right. So, so for me, like if I were to invest like net new in one, like I’d probably start here, but

[01:07:12] Brett: Yeah, this looks really good. And you can use, I, i writer has this, uh, block, you can include things like images and CSV files or whatever, just by starting a line with a slash and then following it with a path to the asset. Um,

[01:07:32] Christina: the exact same way.

[01:07:33] Brett: Yep. Yep. And that’s cool that I actually incorporated that into marked, um, like you can include other markdown files or images and if you include like a C S V, it injects it as a markdown table.

[01:07:48] Brett: And if you include source code, it injects it as highlighted, uh, like syntax. I code, like I got that from IA writer. They’ve had some, some good innovations. I appreciate that.[01:08:00]

[01:08:01] Christina: Yeah,

[01:08:03] Brett: All right, well we’re at like a, an hour 10. I think that’s an episode.

[01:08:09] Christina: a great episode.

[01:08:12] Brett: Good job people.

[01:08:13] Christina: Good job. Everybody can get some sleep. Uh, Aaron can, um, continue to soothe her hangover. Brett can hopefully get some sleep because he, he was, he was, uh, up all night and, um, I can hopefully, uh, maybe be productive today, which would be great.

[01:08:29] Brett: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Aaron.

[01:08:32] Christina: Thank you,

[01:08:33] Erin: Happy pride. Thanks for

[01:08:34] Christina: pride everyone.

[01:08:36] Brett: Happy pride. Get some sleep.

[01:08:40] Erin: I.