323: Unchanging Institutions

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Unchanging Institutions


[00:00:00] Jeff: Hello, this is the Overtired podcast. I am your host, Jeff Severs. Gunzel. I’m one of three hosts. Here comes another Christina Warren

[00:00:11] Christina: Hello.

[00:00:12] Jeff: and Brett Terpstra.

[00:00:13] Brett: Oh, hey,

[00:00:14] Jeff: Oh, hey, I

[00:00:15] Brett: are you thinking about pink elephants

[00:00:17] Jeff: am not thinking about pink elephants. Brett tried to psych me out

[00:00:22] Brett: that is, that is, that is, uh, steel will, that is presence of mind. I appreciate that.

[00:00:27] Jeff: Steel will. That’s, uh, that’s not the first time

[00:00:30] Brett: that’s my porn name.

[00:00:37] Jeff: Um, yeah, I look forward to seeing that a across a very large box that’s like, I feel like, um, porn when I was a kid came on vhs, but it came on vhs, but in, um, really big boxes.

[00:00:51] Brett: Yeah. Why was that?

[00:00:52] Jeff: I don’t know. Because you’re trying to be discreet, I assume, but instead you’re.

[00:00:57] Brett: the one time I ever bought like hard copy [00:01:00] porn in my life, um, I ordered it on D V D and they sent it in this D V D case That was a like, uh, library of Congress exploration of like Mark Twain’s work. That’s what it said on like the dvd V case

[00:01:16] Jeff: a little cover

[00:01:17] Brett: e Even, even the DVD was labeled as such.

[00:01:19] Brett: And then you pop it in and it’s like, it’s just porn.

[00:01:23] Jeff: I mean, that’s just asking

[00:01:25] Brett: one of the, so Ella and I, my girlfriend, we have known each other for like a decade and w she used to come over and hang out when, um, when a deedee was traveling, like a deedee actually, uh, arranged that. Because she knew that Elle and I were so similar in our like, behavior and, and conversation styles.

[00:01:47] Brett: So she was like, this, this is the perfect hangout buddy for my, my husband. Um,

[00:01:53] Jeff: too. Perfect. It turns out.

[00:01:55] Christina: Yeah,

[00:01:56] Brett: out, turned out, turned out really well for two of us. Um, but [00:02:00] uh, but Elle was going through our DVD collection and I had just like slipped in there.

[00:02:05] Jeff: like, Ooh, mark Twain.

[00:02:06] Brett: yeah, she was, I don’t remember if it was actually Mark Flame, but it was Library of Congress something, and she was very impressed that I had that

[00:02:13] Jeff: So cultured.

[00:02:14] Brett: had to admit that’s not what that is.

[00:02:17] Jeff: That is, that is the last work of steel will. Steel Steel. William. Um, wow. All right. There’s that. There’s that. Where the hell do we go from there?

[00:02:30] Brett: one of the things that holds up my relationship together is my willingness to read Instagram memes out loud on the couch to my girlfriend. She loves it. She, she will, she will request, Hey, could you see something funny? And then force me to listen to you, read it out loud. Um, this is, it’s like a staple of our relationship.

[00:02:54] Brett: So, in that vein, I wanted to read you guys something I found today,

[00:02:59] Jeff: Okay.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Brett: only Christina, I think will appreciate this.

[00:03:04] Jeff: Hmm. Hmm.

[00:03:05] Brett: He was a boy. She was a girl. I am a sentient octopus. He was a punk. She did ballet. I have eight prehensile legs. He wanted her, she’d never tell. I crept up from the bowels of hell. All of her friends.

[00:03:18] Brett: And those two as well will fall when the seas start to swell. He was a skater boy. She said, see you later. Boy, neither significant to me. I’m a cephalopod, a miniature elder God. And soon all my brethren will be free

[00:03:31] Jeff: What is that?

[00:03:34] Brett: It’s Af Levine, but with octopi.

[00:03:36] Christina: but I was gonna say, I, I, here’s what was so funny, like literally from the minute you said like, like, you know, he was a boy. I was like, oh, okay. It’s an, it’s a skater boy. Um, thing. Like, I was like, I was like, I don’t know anything else about what this is, but I know that this is an Avril reference.

[00:03:49] Christina: Like, instantly like, like, like, like from, from like the first, from like the first word you said. I was like, yep, I got it. I know this

[00:03:56] Brett: I figured you would.

[00:03:57] Christina: absolutely.

[00:03:58] Brett: I actually, I actually [00:04:00] didn’t recognize it until it got to the, he was a skater boy.

[00:04:02] Christina: Oh really?

[00:04:03] Brett: Yeah, I’m a supple pod, a miniature elder God. Soon all my brethren will be free

[00:04:10] Christina: God. Now the song is gonna be in my head for the rest of the day.

[00:04:14] Brett: I’ve had, I’ve had suck by pig face in my head since this morning, but in the kitchen, when I started singing it, it came out, uh, Sinatra style.

[00:04:26] Jeff: That’s nice. I like when that happens.

[00:04:28] Brett: like it’s, uh, there is no God up in the sky tonight. Uh, no sign of heaven anywhere on sight. Like it just came out like a real, like, I obviously not like that.

[00:04:38] Brett: I’m just telling you the words and you can

[00:04:40] Jeff: Yeah, no, I can see it.

[00:04:41] Brett: sing it for you, but I had a whole thing going. It was really, really, like a lot of swing to it. It was good

[00:04:47] Jeff: Anything that rhymes tonight, you’re definitely in Sinatra territory.

[00:04:53] Brett: So I feel like, I feel like we, we segue into Mental Health Corner as is our tradition. Um, [00:05:00] I I can kick it off if you like.

[00:05:03] Jeff: Kick it off.

[00:05:04] Brett: Fucking, everything’s normal. Like, not, not even, not even my usual, like, I’m so tired of being stable. Uh, like I’m just, I’m, I’m normal today. Like I feel, I feel social. I’m a little bit bummed because we’re going on a trip next week and l is, uh, I have gotten to a point with Covid where I’m like, you know what?

[00:05:28] Brett: I’m good most of the year, but I’m willing to take a risk. For a vacation. Um, Elle is not at that point, and I had to like, cancel plans with my friends because she wants to like isolate before we leave so that she’s not putting her family in danger. And I get it. And our friend of the show, Brian would totally be on board with this, but me, I get very, uh, I get annoyed that I still have to think about it and, and I have to be careful making plans with friends that I will only [00:06:00] see once, maybe twice a year.

[00:06:02] Brett: Um, and I have to like, arrange things with outdoor seating and masking and it annoys me. I’m, I’m just, I’m done. I’m, I have, I have covid fatigue for sure.

[00:06:15] Jeff: I’ve noticed a lot more masks lately in Minneapolis.

[00:06:19] Christina: Yeah. Um, I, I, I’ve, I’ve noticed some, but I’m also, I I’m where you were, uh, Brett, I got to that place like last year

[00:06:26] Brett: Sure. Yeah, we all did. We all did. But I don’t leave the house much, so it hasn’t mattered.

[00:06:31] Christina: no, I know you don’t. I know, but, but what I’m saying is like, I know exactly what you mean because that’s exactly where I was like a year ago. I was just like, I’m done, I’m done.

[00:06:39] Christina: I’m, I’m done. Like, I, I’ve got it. Like I’m, I’ve been, you know, I’ve been okay, like, I’m done. I’m gonna do the right things If people, you know, want me to, to mask up or whatever, I will. But I’m not, I’m not doing the whole like, charade and I’m sorry. It, it has been a charade for, for the most part, you know, about like, oh, I’m not gonna go out.

[00:06:59] Christina: I’m not gonna like [00:07:00] travel. I’m not gonna like, live my life. Like,

[00:07:03] Brett: I mean, that’s not purely performative. That’s just extremely cautious.

[00:07:07] Christina: No, most of it is performative. Some people, I think it is true, but I think it, it’s, it’s gotten to the point that for most people, in my experience, it is completely performative because the, the precautions they’re taking don’t even make any difference. Like, we’re all getting sick anyway.

[00:07:21] Brett: we’re gonna hear from Brian

[00:07:23] Christina: I’m not talking about Brian.

[00:07:24] Christina: Like they, they have a different, they have a different, um, you know, like, like threat model. But, but I, I said most people, I said Mo and, and, you know, but, and, and, and I’m sorry. I think that’s, I think that’s absolutely true. Um, like it’s just, at this point I’m just like, okay, like you do all the right things and the, the masks, if you’re not wearing the right type of mask, it doesn’t even like, it’s like,

[00:07:45] Brett: sure. I feel like at this, if at this point everyone’s down with the K or N 95,

[00:07:51] Jeff: I disagree. I feel like, so I spend a lot of time at doctor’s offices lately, and, uh, it, the one they give out is just the, the [00:08:00] cheap paper mask. And then that seems to be what people are buying also. And not only that, but like,

[00:08:05] Brett: performative.

[00:08:05] Jeff: and not well, yeah. Not only that, but when I’m at the doctor, I’m noticing more and more like nurses, uh, you know, the, as a group nurses have a fair amount of conservatives among them, and I’m, and I’m noticing a lot of noses.

[00:08:19] Jeff: So they’re not only wearing like a mask that really isn’t designed to keep covid from spreading. I’m sure it has some impact, but it, it’s not designed to do that. But, uh, but now there’s noses as well, and, and that’s the part that’s really frustrating and feels kind of, I mean, it feels performative, but I don’t even, it’s not even that that bothers me.

[00:08:38] Jeff: It’s more that how quickly we just threw away the idea of like, this is the kind of mask that works, you know,

[00:08:47] Brett: Well, so here’s, here’s, here’s my pitch for k N 95 masks with the little metal band that goes over your nose. You can talk to someone for five minutes without. [00:09:00] Every 30 seconds having to pull your mask back

[00:09:03] Jeff: Yeah. Right, right, right.

[00:09:04] Brett: I watch like city council meetings where the people yelling at the council have, have shitty masks on, and they’re like, the whole time, it’s just this constant distraction of pulling their mask up over their nose.

[00:09:17] Brett: Just get k n 95 masks. They’re so, they’re, they stay in place. They’re so much better and effective and they actually, you know, provide some protection

[00:09:26] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:09:27] Brett: for you and everyone else. But anyway, so I’m looking, I’m gonna see, uh, Dan Peterson and hopefully Dave Chartier, uh, in Chicago, and then have breakfast with friend of the show, Aaron Dawson.

[00:09:42] Brett: Um, if, if all goes well and, and we come up with plans that are safe for everybody, that is, that’s my, that’s my Saturday and Sunday, and then I’m in Michigan for a week and it’s gonna be a lot like, what was it? Dusty or Sandy, what was your place in Utah [00:10:00] called

[00:10:01] Jeff: Sandy, Utah.

[00:10:03] Brett: Sandy, Utah. It’s go, it’s gonna, it’s, it’s gonna be a little depressing.

[00:10:07] Brett: Uh, we got a Airbnb, um, and there’s not a lot around. I might make a trip to, um, mis, uh, to Ann Arbor. Um, I don’t, do you guys know Marina Appleman?

[00:10:20] Christina: Yes. She’s the best.

[00:10:21] Brett: I haven’t told her I’m coming yet,

[00:10:23] Christina: No, you have to, no. Yeah.

[00:10:24] Brett: she’s in Ann Arbor and, and if I get a chance, I would like to see her. It’ll be fun.

[00:10:29] Christina: She’s fantastic. She’s fantastic. Um, I, I got to meet her in person. Um, she came to when she was in New York once and um, she’s, she’s, she’s so

[00:10:38] Brett: just awesome. She’s

[00:10:39] Christina: the best.

[00:10:41] Brett: Russian. She’ll tell you stories about Sylvia, Russia. It’ll be

[00:10:45] Christina: Also like, because she’s been through it, like she’s just, I lo I love her cuz she’s just like very direct and like funny

[00:10:51] Brett: and so smart.

[00:10:52] Christina: so fucking smart. Like brilliant. She’s, uh, she teaches, she’s a math or economics or something at, um, at math. Math at um,

[00:10:59] Brett: like [00:11:00] applied mathematics, I think,

[00:11:01] Christina: Yeah. I was gonna say some, some, it’s better than like, normal math.

[00:11:04] Christina: Yeah. Um, at a, um, at uh, um, Ann Arbor. Um, so yeah,

[00:11:09] Brett: she’ll probably, she’ll probably, uh, I’ll, I’ll tell her. We talked about her. She’ll listen to this and tell me, you have no idea what I actually teach. Do you? And I’ll say it’s over my head. I, I don’t really know.

[00:11:20] Christina: smart. Honestly. Like we, we, we know that it’s really good. We know that it’s a very, very good school and that it’s something like very, very like smart,

[00:11:29] Brett: Very smart. Uh, she taught me how to say late tech. Uh, she, she corrected me back in

[00:11:35] Jeff: I thought it’s LA Tech.

[00:11:37] Brett: so there, as long as you get the sound at the end, as long as you don’t say the X,

[00:11:42] Christina: right? Which I did

[00:11:43] Brett: you can say LA Tech. You can say LA Tech. You can say latex. As long as you don’t say latex.

[00:11:49] Jeff: And why is the ex,

[00:11:52] Brett: Really good question. I bet she would know the answer.

[00:11:54] Christina: it because it came from tech, which was like the, I, the, the, the, I don’t know, ask the fucking Unix [00:12:00] guys is the only thing I can get in with that.

[00:12:02] Jeff: yeah. Yeah. You know what? That would be a great podcast. Ask the fucking Unix

[00:12:07] Christina: I mean,

[00:12:07] Jeff: your host, Jeff Severance. I’m here with Christina Warren. Brett Terpstra.

[00:12:11] Christina: Um, I, I got to meet, um, uh, Ken Thompson, uh, very briefly at a scale a couple weeks ago, and he was lovely. And, um, he’s 80 and he’s still programming and doing cool things. His, the video of his talk actually went up and it got on Hacker News and there were a number of people who were acting just like some of the assholes in the room who were like, they wanted, they were expecting him to talk about Unix and go, and he didn’t.

[00:12:35] Christina: Instead he like shared this very human and like, kind of personal story about this thing that he called it like his 75 year like project, but it’s really been this thing that he’s been actively working on. Since the eighties where he’s like digitized every like, recorded song from like the 19 hundreds to like the, like 19 hundreds to, to 1999 or, or whatever.

[00:12:57] Christina: And, um, uh, it, it’s, he [00:13:00] basically created Napster is, is, is the longest, the short of it, but, but it’s, but it’s actually pretty incredible. Like, like he legally obtained all these songs and stuff and then encoded them and, and like there’s player pianos and it’s not just recorded stuff, but also things like, stuff that beyond like player piano scrolls and other sorts of, um, media.

[00:13:17] Christina: And, um, anyway, it was a really great talk, but when he finished giving this talk, and I, I’d met him the day before and I was just like, kind of fangirling. I was like, thank you for everything you’ve given us, you know, because you know Ken Thompson. And, um, he told me, he was like, I’m nervous about my talk.

[00:13:34] Christina: And I was like, oh, that’s gonna be, And then a guy asked at the end, he was basically like, why did you just waste our time? He didn’t say, why did you waste our time? But that was the undercurrent. He was like, I was expecting you to talk about Go or Unix or this or that. Why did you just talk about this thing?

[00:13:47] Christina: And, and like very much the undercurrent was like, why, why did you just like waste our time in this? And, and I, I was so pissed at the time. I, I wanted to boo the guy and I didn’t because that, you know, that’s, that’s, you don’t do that. [00:14:00] Christina don’t do that. But I, I do regret not having like, at the end, like when, when Ken was almost sort of apologizing now not yelling at like, we love you Ken.

[00:14:08] Christina: Because I think that the vast majority of the audience really enjoyed it. But there were some people on and Hacker News who were like, Well, actually in certain things, they’re like, well, you know, he’s not that I, I don’t understand why everybody, you know, like, like kisses his ass so much. He was, he was factually wrong about some things when he came by the Debbie and Booth.

[00:14:26] Christina: And I’m like, the dude is 80 years old and, and, and, and he, he did, he did, he wasn’t aware of like a raspberry pie shortage because it doesn’t affect him personally. Like, fuck you. Like,

[00:14:36] Jeff: everybody fucking knows about what happens at the Debbie and Booth fucking stays at the Debbie and

[00:14:40] Christina: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:14:41] Brett: It’s the first rule of Debbie in Booth.

[00:14:43] Christina: it, it really is. But no, you know, but you had like some people in Hacker News who were just being total like dicks about some of the stuff, but I thought it was like a really beautiful, um, story. Anyway, that was a tangent that came out of you talking about the, the, we should have the, the ask the Unix guys.

[00:14:58] Brett: really enjoyed that [00:15:00] one.

[00:15:00] Jeff: just be, it could be a

[00:15:01] Brett: that tangent,

[00:15:03] Christina: But, but seriously in the show notes. So we’ll have a link to the, the video from scale because it’s a really great talk and, and I think it’s just like, in its simplicity and like in its humanness, like I actually thought it was, it was really compelling. Um, I also, like, I definitely get the sense that, that Mr.

[00:15:17] Christina: Thompson’s probably on the spectrum of some sort, because he’s dedicated all this time and, and all this work into like digitizing and cataloging all this music. I don’t get the sense that he’s listened to much of the music other than like figuring out how it could be as losslessly encoded as possible.

[00:15:34] Christina: Like that, that like, I, I didn’t real, I didn’t get a sense that it w I got, you know what I mean? Like, I didn’t get a sense that it was anything more of like, I need to complete this thing other than like, I, I, I have great love for the, for the works themselves.

[00:15:46] Brett: Do either of you know what that condition is called where you don’t like music or like music has no effect on you at all? You don’t feel anything you don’t hear.

[00:15:55] Christina: yeah, I’ve heard of that. He, and he doesn’t have that, but I don’t know. Um, I [00:16:00] know

[00:16:00] Brett: a, I have a friend with that Allison Sheridan. She’s not shy about it. Um, she runs the pod feet podcast and like, just music means nothing to her. Like she could hear it and like, if it doesn’t actively annoy her, it just has like no meaning. Uh, there’s no like, like I feel stuff when I listen to music.

[00:16:21] Brett: Like that’s the whole point of music for most people I think cuz like feeling things that would be so weird. Anyway, anyway, sorry Christina, how’s your mental.

[00:16:30] Christina: Um, pretty good. It’s pretty good. Um, it’s been kind of a, it’s a busy work week and it’s gonna continue to kind of be, you know, busy for the next, you know, few days and into next week and stuff. But, um, it’s pretty good. Uh, grant is out of town. He went to go visit his brother, who he has not seen in person in, I don’t know, in probably, probably 15 years.

[00:16:50] Christina: They, well, they, they had a falling out for a while and they haven’t been talking, and then they started talking like a year and change ago for the first time in a really long time. [00:17:00] So he’s in Hawaii with his brother, seems to be going well. So I’ve got like, so I’m like in this interesting thing where I’m like, alone in the house, um, which is kind of nice.

[00:17:11] Christina: I mean, I, I, I, it, it, I’m kind of like, it’s kind of weird, but it’s like I haven’t been alone in, in this space. Like I’ve been alone like other places, but I haven’t been alone here in like

[00:17:21] Brett: you talk to yourself when you’re alone in the house?

[00:17:24] Christina: No.

[00:17:24] Brett: you say things out loud to yourself? Oh,

[00:17:27] Christina: not really, not, not so much sometimes maybe, but like, I not, not, not really, like, I think out loud to myself a lot, but I don’t, you know what I mean?

[00:17:35] Christina: Like, I, I think stuff to myself, I’m like, what the fuck are you doing? But I don’t, I don’t usually verbalize it, but,

[00:17:40] Brett: I like narrate my life when I’m all alone and no

[00:17:43] Christina: oh, I love

[00:17:44] Brett: I just, I just say it all out

[00:17:46] Jeff: Like Ron Howard in the rest of development.

[00:17:48] Christina: Yeah. Oh, I love that.

[00:17:52] Jeff: That’s awesome.

[00:17:53] Brett: which is no longer on Netflix, even though they produced the last two seasons of it,

[00:17:57] Christina: is so fucked up. And, and we talked about it. Yeah, it’s a [00:18:00] stupid rights thing. They, they had like a, a 10 year, um, I guess contract and they didn’t wanna renew it. And the shitty thing is, is you can get season four from iTunes or, or Google Play or whatever, but season five, they never released as a way to buy.

[00:18:13] Christina: And then the season four remix, which actually made season four better, was also not released on home video. So the only way you can get it is if you pirate it, which is fucking stupid. So it’s, it’s so dumb. And, and because Netflix co-produced it, some people are like, oh, it’ll just show up on, on, you know, um, Hulu or whatever, and I’m like, no, Netflix like, paid for the co-production, so it, you know, they’d have to buy them out and, and I doubt Disney cares.

[00:18:38] Christina: So it, it’s just shitty.

[00:18:40] Brett: Yeah,

[00:18:41] Jeff: That sucks.

[00:18:43] Brett: it does.

[00:18:44] Jeff: Um, I, uh, I went and saw the movie Metropolis on Sunday.

[00:18:52] Brett: With,

[00:18:53] Christina: Oh wow.

[00:18:53] Brett: with which, with what? Soundtrack?

[00:18:56] Jeff: It’s the original one and the soundtrack was actually a man on an [00:19:00] organ.

[00:19:00] Brett: Yes.

[00:19:00] Jeff: Um, live but live.

[00:19:02] Brett: Minneapolis. I saw, uh, a live production. Uh, this was back in like, uh, maybe 1999, uh, 98, 99. I saw, uh, they showed, I can’t remember the name of the theater. Something Oak

[00:19:16] Jeff: But yeah, the Oak Street Cinema, it’s long gone. It was a great one.

[00:19:19] Brett: And they showed. They showed it and they had a live organ accompaniment. It was fantastic. It was really fun.

[00:19:25] Jeff: Yeah, that’s what, that’s what happened here. Um, and it was the full, like almost three hour version of Metropolis, uh, such a cool story where they found like a complete version in Argentina, but it was 16 millimeter. And so they have to like, and then they, they were able to restore missing scenes, uh, via description, I think based on the Nazis censorship files, um, from the movie.

[00:19:49] Jeff: I mean, it’s really, but I bring it up just because like, I, I mean, even though I missed movies so much during the pandemic, I have not made great [00:20:00] use of movie theaters since it has essentially ended and. have been so in my head lately that took on a new role with my organization, taking on a new project that it was just wonderful to just lay back in a seat and, and, and let someone tell me or show me a story.

[00:20:20] Jeff: Um, especially that one, I, I’ve always wanted to watch it. I had no idea how fucking good it was. I mean, I heard obviously

[00:20:28] Christina: I mean, yeah,

[00:20:29] Jeff: Yeah. Like you hear about it forever.

[00:20:31] Christina: no, but, but, but to your point, like you got to see like the definitive version because, I’m trying to think cuz I’ve seen, I’ve seen it a couple times, but I think the only time I saw it with like, the live, maybe accompaniment was the one that they, it was like 2002, but then they found like another copy or they found like other stuff after that.

[00:20:51] Christina: And, and I, and I, I saw that one, but I don’t remember if it had the live accompaniment or not. Or, and I think I saw it, but I might not have, I [00:21:00] might just be like misremembering that I might, I might, might think that I saw it and instead I read about it. Um,

[00:21:05] Brett: It works as a silent movie, like you can, you can get in, you can get involved in it without a soundtrack, but it is a different experience to see it where the company meant.

[00:21:17] Jeff: I was amazed at, especially, I don’t know if it’s Briget or Bridget Helm, the, the woman who plays Maria, sort of the star of the movie, she plays two different Marias. One is a robot clone and one is the actual Maria. So she has, and she’s dressed the same in both cases, and so she has to, in a silent film, make it clear when you’re looking at, you know, like the clone Maria or the real Maria and the acting that it took to make that real.

[00:21:45] Jeff: Amazing. She was amazing. And I was surprised to feel so many things in that movie. Generally. I thought it was gonna be sort of an academic, uh, thing to watch that movie. But anyway, it was, it, what it was for [00:22:00] me also though, was just like, it just got out of my head. It was just awesome. It was so nice to be in a story other than one I’m telling myself.

[00:22:08] Jeff: Um, and then just a little piece of trivia came out of it. That’s fucking nuts. Which is that, so this woman, let’s call her Bridget Helm. This was her first movie. 1927. She’s amazing. She did a bunch of more movies before retiring in 1935 because the Nazis had taken over the film ministry and it disgust disgusted her.

[00:22:30] Jeff: Um, but there’s a really crazy little piece to her history, which is she was apparently involved in several traffic accidents. This is on the Wiki Wikipedia page, um, and was even briefly imprisoned, right? Um, and one of her, uh, one of her accidents ended up in a death. And so she was facing charges of manslaughter and there was a certain person in power at the time who noticed she had a case and, and got it dropped.

[00:22:58] Jeff: That person [00:23:00] was her fan, Adolf Hitler. So I was thinking how much it would fuck me up if a, I had killed someone in a car accident. B had the elation, the strange, guilty elation of having that case dropped, and C was recognizing over the course of the next 10 years what it meant that Adolf Hitler was that man.

[00:23:24] Jeff: Cause I mean,

[00:23:25] Brett: that’s a real rollercoaster.

[00:23:27] Jeff: oh my God.

[00:23:28] Christina: Okay. So that, so that right there, that’s like a movie like, like that, that’s, that, that, that’s, that’s like, okay. Cuz uh, did, did either of you see tar?

[00:23:36] Jeff: No,

[00:23:37] Christina: It’s great.

[00:23:38] Jeff: yeah. Here.

[00:23:39] Christina: Kate Blanch had, uh, um, Todd Field and it’s, it’s, you know, fake, but it’s, it’s great. But like that to me almost feels like, Like, you could do a, a, a, a tar like thing, but about her, like, like that would actually be an interesting sort of sort of thing.

[00:23:53] Christina: Like, you know, to do kind of like a character study on, on this, this, this woman who has to deal with that stuff too. And then it’s [00:24:00] also like, okay, this is your first big role. It’s this, this, you know, masterpiece, but then it happens at this, you know, time and then all these other things happen and having to grapple with it.

[00:24:07] Christina: Like, um, what’s her face? The, uh, the, um, the Nazi, um, uh, documentarian, um, uh, who, who did um, um, uh, triumph, the will, um,

[00:24:18] Jeff: Oh,

[00:24:18] Christina: uh, um, um, um, you, you know what I’m, you know exactly who I’m talking about. Um,

[00:24:23] Jeff: it up so we get it

[00:24:24] Christina: uh, Lil Gral. Um,

[00:24:28] Jeff: Got it.

[00:24:28] Christina: knew it would come to me. Um,

[00:24:30] Brett: just gotta give her a sec. She

[00:24:31] Christina: I, I was gonna

[00:24:32] Brett: there.

[00:24:33] Christina: with this stuff. I do. No, but that’s, uh, you know, like I’ve always, there’ve been a lot of talks over the years about like, wanting to make films about her story.

[00:24:43] Christina: And, and that has also, but, but that’s complicated for so many reasons. And, uh, but, but that, that, that’s another character who I’m like, oh, she’s so flawed. And not, not to say that this actress is, cause I, I think it’s totally different. But just to talk about kind of like in that era of, you know, aligning yourself [00:25:00] with these, these people right.

[00:25:02] Christina: With, with someone like Hiller and, and having it tied directly to your art form and being completely, you know, like, um, unretractable from it, which obviously again, like. She as an actress, didn’t like she, she’d quit because she didn’t wanna be doing those things and, and made that stand and still wound up benefiting, uh, from, uh, fur Anyway.

[00:25:21] Christina: But anyway, just has me thinking about, uh, ri install, cuz that’s whole thing is just really interesting. There’s so many interesting stories, I think, uh, about like ethics and, and um, uh, art and, you know, like, I don’t know. It’s just, it’s fascinating to think about.

[00:25:39] Brett: Here’s, here’s the little rabbit hole I just went down. So I, I was using search link to, to build out our show notes, and I have a TMDb, uh, like the movie database, uh, which is like imdb, but actually has an API that you can search. Um, so Search link returned, uh, for Metropolis [00:26:00] return slash movie slash 19.

[00:26:02] Brett: And I was like, oh, do they do these in some kind of,

[00:26:05] Christina: That’s what I

[00:26:05] Brett: uh, chronological order is like, and so what’s number 18? Number 18 is the fifth element. And number two, there’s no number one, number one returns. The, uh, 4 0 4 number two returns. What was it?

[00:26:21] Christina: Ariel. It’s Ariel. I’ve never heard of this. Ariel a, a drama comedy crime from, from K rated k12. So it’s foreign, but it is a, it is available on the Criterion, um, uh, collection, uh, service, which I have.

[00:26:36] Brett: how these, I wonder where these IDs come from, though.

[00:26:39] Christina: Yeah, me too. I’m like, I’m like very interested now. Yeah. Cause it’s on the Criterion Channel.

[00:26:43] Christina: This is a finished.

[00:26:45] Brett: in Paradise. Four doesn’t exist. Five is four rooms that I love. Four rooms, but I don’t see how that comes before Metropolis, uh, in any numbering system.

[00:26:58] Jeff: Someone needs to watch those [00:27:00] films in order, uh,

[00:27:01] Christina: Yeah. Oh, okay. That okay. Okay. Okay. You just invented a podcast, like a

[00:27:06] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:27:06] Christina: podcast that, that would appeal to like letter

[00:27:10] Brett: in order.

[00:27:11] Christina: No, but honestly, I, I, I bet you would have a bunch of people on letterbox that would totally be like down for that

[00:27:17] Jeff: Right, right, right.

[00:27:18] Brett: My favorite. My

[00:27:19] Christina: the T M D B podcast.

[00:27:21] Brett: The only line I remember from four rooms, like I enjoyed the movie, but the only line I remember is Madonna saying hell of a night haunted. And that comes up for me all the time. Anytime something weird happens, I just say hell of a night haunted. And then I have to like pause and remember why I say that, where that came from.

[00:27:41] Brett: Um, which reminds me favorite line from I’m, I’m rewatching BoJack Horseman right now. My favorite line this week was, it’s hard to describe, but I also don’t know it if I see it.

[00:27:57] Jeff: That’s awesome.

[00:27:58] Brett: so Jeff Mental Health [00:28:00] Corner.

[00:28:00] Jeff: That was it.

[00:28:01] Brett: That was it, huh?

[00:28:02] Jeff: Well, cuz the, the whole bit about it takes me outta my head

[00:28:06] Christina: Yeah, it’s good. Which, which I think is beautiful. I’m glad you got to experience that. Um, and now I’m remembering I did not see, I, I have seen the, the rest, the restored version, but I didn’t have any sort of live accompaniment. So it was just like, whatever, whatever, um, version of the score they were allowed to, to.

[00:28:21] Christina: Get, um, on that Wikipedia page, you will find out, unsurprisingly, this, that film with which there are multiple versions and lost things and whatnot, there have been fights over like who was allowed to like, create scores and, and not scores and, um, other stuff. But now it’s, but, but now it’s all in the public domain, so that’s also

[00:28:41] Jeff: As of this year, I think.

[00:28:43] Christina: Yeah. That, that’s, yeah. As, as, as of January, um, first, which, uh, it, it hit the, um, the 95 year mark or whatever. Um,

[00:28:51] Jeff: That’s awesome. Brett is apparently cleaning his gun.

[00:28:54] Brett: So I have, I have this, I have this screwdriver from like, I fix it [00:29:00] and you can like rotate it and it, every time you rotate it and push it in, it brings up a different screw head, uh, or like a different bit. And I broke it and now I can’t push it in or turn it. And now I

[00:29:11] Jeff: that what you’ve been fucking clicking the last three episodes?

[00:29:15] Brett: no.

[00:29:16] Jeff: I’m editing them, I hear this.

[00:29:18] Brett: my fidget, my fidget toy is a, is a lock blade that snaps open and I sit and I fidget and I don’t even realize I’m doing it, but I sit and

[00:29:28] Christina: need to get you a quiet

[00:29:29] Brett: it. Yeah, yeah. Let’s, let’s make that, if any listeners have a good suggestion for a fidget toy that Brett can use while podcasting, but I’ve, I’ve officially, I’ve officially broken this, this driver and in the process, oh, there’s the problem.

[00:29:47] Brett: There’s a bit stuck halfway. Anyway, um, I have, I have, I have lost eight, eight small screwdriver bits in the process. You know, I’m gonna have to like cut it open. It’s gonna be a whole thing.

[00:29:58] Jeff: Stay tuned to the next [00:30:00] episode. Hit us up on Discord.

[00:30:04] Christina: Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say, what do I have? I have my, uh, my, my, my Linus Tech tips, uh, screwdriver came in and, uh, it’s pretty nice. Um, uh, uh, he, he spent a lot of money and a lot of time building a ratcheting screwdriver.

[00:30:18] Brett: to vaults like

[00:30:20] Christina: No, no, no. Like, no, no. Like the YouTuber, um, uh, um, uh, lions Sebastian, who has like a very popular YouTube channel and, and they employ a bunch of people.

[00:30:30] Christina: Um, it’s like a mini empire. He like made his own tools and it’s not bad.

[00:30:35] Brett: I’m gonna, I’m gonna add that to our show notes mostly because I feel like I need to check this out.

[00:30:40] Christina: Mm.

[00:30:41] Brett: I’m a fan of popular YouTubers. People keep, people keep turning me onto new YouTubers and I’m like, I’ve never heard of that. And I get there and they have like 3 million subscribers or more, and I’m like, everyone knows about this but me.

[00:30:56] Brett: It’s not even TikTok. Like I, I’m not surprised when I haven’t heard of someone on [00:31:00] TikTok, cuz I, I don’t go to TikTok, but I spend a lot of time on YouTube and yet I’m constantly surprised by very popular creators I’ve never heard of. And it’s all, it’s the algorithm. Like I find stuff on YouTube because YouTube suggests it to me, and if it doesn’t suggest it, I have no reason to know about it.

[00:31:19] Christina: Exactly.

[00:31:21] Jeff: It’s a very important service in our lives. Um, can I say my post office bit

[00:31:27] Brett: Yes.

[00:31:29] Jeff: or should we do a sponsor?

[00:31:31] Brett: Oh, we should probably do a sponsor.

[00:31:33] Christina: All right. This episode is brought to you by Collide. Our sponsor, collide has some big news. If you’re an Okta user, they can get your entire fleet to 100% compliance. How? Well, if a device isn’t compliant, the user can’t log into your cloud apps until they fix the problem. It’s that simple. And what Collide does is they patch one of the major holes in zero trust architecture, which is device compliance, making sure that everything is [00:32:00] updated and running what it needs to be running and provision the right way.

[00:32:03] Christina: And without collide it struggles to solve basic problems like keeping everyone’s OS and browser up to date. Uh, you might know, you know, iOS has had to release a couple of zero day patches. Google just released a big one, uh, for the Pixel seven and I, and I think, uh, the Pixel six as well. And, uh, unsecured devices are logging into your company’s apps because there’s nothing to stop them.

[00:32:26] Christina: Clyde is the only device trust solution that enforces compliance as part of authentication, and it’s built to work seamlessly with Okta. The moment that Collides agent detects a problem, it alerts the user and gives them instructions to fix it. And if they don’t fix the problem within a set period of time, they’re blocked.

[00:32:44] Christina: They’re blocked. That’s it. They can’t access anything. Collides method means fewer support tickets, less frustration, and most importantly, 100% fleet compliance. So you can visit collide.com/ Overtired to learn more or to [00:33:00] book a demo. That’s K O L I D e.com/ Overtired collide.com/ Overtired.

[00:33:08] Brett: I’m so glad you realized that I made a mistake and, uh, it. Overtired too, and without a space. And you, you nailed it. You saw that and you’re like, that’s not right. I’m gonna, I’m gonna read it the way it should be. That was very good. Um, we also are, uh, talking once again about, uh, another mental health podcast that we love.

[00:33:33] Brett: Uh, mental Chillness. If you’re looking for more mental health podcasts, mental Chillness is a safe space that heals with the power of laughter. It’s led by Khan and Jules, two people with mental illness that come together weekly with occasional guests to share their daily process of working towards mental chill.

[00:33:53] Brett: Coming from childhood environments that weren’t open about mental wellbeing and emotional self-regulation, [00:34:00] K and jewels are opening up the conversation of everyday struggles of dealing with A D H D, depression and anxiety, epilepsy and growing into adulthood. They share tips and tricks of emotional awareness from their personal experiences and how they hold themselves accountable through personal bs.

[00:34:18] Brett: And the way they know how to do it best is with humor. You can keep up with them on any podcast platform and YouTube channel. Mental chillness for full video contents. Thanks. Mental chillness. Uh, they’re also talking about us.

[00:34:32] Brett: So sweet deal there.

[00:34:34] Jeff: Say nice things, please,

[00:34:35] Christina: Please.

[00:34:37] Brett: Um, just real quick before we do the post office, I, I just have to, I just have to say I did a, I did a poll on Macedon and usually if I do a poll on Twitter with 13,000 followers, I’ll get maybe 40, 50 responses. Uh, people that actually vote on [00:35:00] Maidan. I have 2000 followers and I did a poll about what programming language I should learn next.

[00:35:05] Brett: And I got a hundred some responses including multiple people that wanted to write in new options and it was very productive and I love Macedon and I’m learning Rust Next. As a result, I kind of already knew that I was already planning, but I just wanted to see like, is go a contender? Uh, should I be learning Scala?

[00:35:28] Brett: No, it’s rust. I’m going with Rust. But anyway, let’s talk post office.

[00:35:34] Jeff: All I have to say about the post office is that, so I sell, uh, I sell shit on eBay. Like, like I. Used to go to auctions for like steel factories and shit, and I, and I sell kind of obscure consumable Sunny Bay. It’s just something I enjoy. Um, and so I go to the post office and I was walking into the post office the other day and I was like, this is one of the only things I can [00:36:00] think of that is a major piece of life that has not changed in my entire. And I mean at all, right? Like most post offices, like even like whatever fucking computer they have at the desk has been there since computers started. And I was trying to think of other things and I’m curious if you have any of those. I mean, cuz really there’s nothing like the post office. And if I were to explain it to you now, if I were to say there’s this thing where if you put a certain sticky thing onto an envelope, a man will come and pick it up.

[00:36:31] Jeff: Or a woman man in my case will come and pick it up and they will make sure that it gets across the country to a person’s house. If I told you that, it would sound like it was 400 years ago.

[00:36:44] Brett: I was gonna say that DMV hasn’t changed much, but it has,

[00:36:48] Jeff: Mm.

[00:36:48] Brett: I, I still, if I go to my DMV here in town, like I still have to fill out a lot of paper. Like it’s not electronic, but simply the [00:37:00] advent of digital cameras has changed the entire DMV experience and license renewal process. So, and I feel like the post office has changed in small ways.

[00:37:09] Brett: Um, like handwriting recognition, for example.

[00:37:13] Jeff: fundamentally, if you wanna send a package, you walk in with your box and hand it to a person who puts it in a bin that is also 400 years old.

[00:37:20] Brett: Yeah. And, and they go with zip codes. And when it gets down to the finer details, it’s up to whoever your postal carrier is to figure out the quirks in, in addressing, I get, I get stuff delivered to me fairly often that has the address wrong, but has my name right. And if this were a purely automated system, that that would’ve been returned to sender because it was the wrong address, but it gets to the right route.

[00:37:48] Brett: And then my postal carrier’s like, oh yeah, Brett, I know Brett. Here, here, here’s your mail.

[00:37:53] Jeff: at the punk planet offices, we used to get, we also got, we got this regular catalog about Chick sexing, which is about,[00:38:00]

[00:38:00] Brett: sorry, what?

[00:38:00] Jeff: chick sexing, which is not what it sounds like. It’s about, it’s about, uh,

[00:38:05] Brett: I, yeah. Birds are bird. Birds are notoriously hard to.

[00:38:09] Jeff: So we would get this, this Chick sexing catalog, a addressed to punk planetarium , which was amazing. Anyway, uh, that, that’s my think, that’s my little thought puzzle. The DMV isn’t a bad answer. I mean, it’s changed, but

[00:38:26] Brett: it has, but it, I mean, still it’s still a toil when it really shouldn’t be like, that. Seems like a process rife for a lot more automation and efficiency.

[00:38:37] Jeff: It seems like getting arrested probably hasn’t changed that much. You know what I mean? Like it, it’s like you still probably do your fingerprints, although it’s probably on a computer, I guess. Remember when this is? I will, I promise not to go down anymore of memory lane after this, but like, remember when running a credit card was like they had that, that thing that was like the size of a

[00:38:57] Brett: the Xerox

[00:38:58] Jeff: and they would put it down [00:39:00] and they would just make a copy of it.

[00:39:02] Brett: I do remember

[00:39:03] Jeff: Okay, I’m done.

[00:39:04] Brett: Christina might not remember, but that was definitely early credit card days for me.

[00:39:08] Jeff: go through any machine at all. They just made a

[00:39:10] Brett: it was, it was barely faster than writing a check.

[00:39:13] Christina: Yeah, I, I, okay, so I do remember this because when I worked my very first job, we, if the machine was down, I would have to pull this massive thing out from underneath the, the counter, pull it back up, and then, you know, and then like pull out some Simpson paper, you know, make an imprint of the card, you know, to, to put it in.

[00:39:32] Christina: And like, that’s what we would do. If, if the bank, if the modem or whatever, you know, was, was on on, on the po o s was down, I would have to like manually, um, make, make a copy, make an imprint of a card. But, um, that was only at that first job. Best Buy. Did not have Best Buy, buy that era already was like, no, we don’t, we’re completely, you know, digitized.

[00:39:52] Christina: Um, if, if the machine is down too bad, um, but, uh, , but, but good old, um, EB games. Um, you know, if [00:40:00] somebody needed to pay with a credit card for their Pokemon cards, um, or, uh, you know, uh, final Fantasy eight or whatever, um, then, uh, then they could, uh, or, or their Dreamcast or whatever. Uh, and, and the system was down.

[00:40:12] Christina: I could still take it in front of their card, but yeah.

[00:40:16] Brett: For some reason, my, my instinct now, which we are not going to indulge, but my instinct is to talk about mimeographs and, and those, those,

[00:40:27] Christina: I’ve only read about.

[00:40:28] Jeff: That smell?

[00:40:29] Brett: Those overhead projectors that teacher used to put, uh, like a clear, like laminate over and then write on with marker and it would project in front of

[00:40:39] Christina: 100%. Uh, transparent, transparent things. Yeah, I, I used to print those. I, I used to, I used to, um, get those so that you could print on them with like my inkjet printer. So that you could, like, then I could like, give presentations like in like sixth grade and be like, oh, look at how fancy I am.

[00:40:53] Christina: Yeah. With like, with like my, my, my, my, my well printed stuff or whatnot. But yeah, you would get, um, what, what were it was [00:41:00] called, um, they were um, cuz there overhead projectors. But, but, but they, but they were, there was like a

[00:41:04] Brett: was a, there was a word for it. There was like, there was like a one word name. Then you knew what was happening. I can’t remember.

[00:41:11] Jeff: you know it, listeners shouted, shouted at the speaker.

[00:41:14] Christina: yeah. I

[00:41:15] Brett: she yell it out right

[00:41:16] Christina: I was gonna say I’m only aware of Mimeographs because they were mentioned in like Judy Bloom books that were like, written in the seventies and I was like, what is this, what is this? Like I have no concept of what this is. It’s like, this sounds like a shittier version of like a Xerox machine and, and that’s what it was.

[00:41:30] Christina: Um, but, but like I, you know, didn’t, didn’t know, um, never had to experience that. But I, I did have the um, uh, you know, the, the overhead projector stuff cuz like, that’s what they would do in like math and shit. Like, you know,

[00:41:43] Brett: Well, so

[00:41:44] Christina: and.

[00:41:45] Brett: there’s this interesting, yeah. Like Xerox has come a long way, uh, to use a brand name, but photocopy has come a long way. However, there have been recent issues where, because in [00:42:00] order, yeah, in order to, to most effectively and accurately copy a document, a black and white document, most modern copiers will actually scan and OCR and then rewrite.

[00:42:17] Brett: So people are running copies and getting. Copies with different words or different numbers, more importantly, different numbers in the output than in the input, which is never a, never a problem back in the days of just photocopy when it was literally photocopying.

[00:42:35] Christina: yeah, no, exactly. This is, this is, um, yeah, this is, uh, I, I, I read about this recently, um, about how like, uh, it’ll randomly alter, you know, numbers or whatever. Um, and some of this stuff, um, it, it’ll like, it, it’s like, um, this flock think apparently goes back like a decade now that I’m looking about it, but, but I, I, we must have seen it at this from the same place, Brett, because I saw it recently too and I was reminded of this and I was like, oh, this is so interesting.

[00:42:59] Christina: Yeah, I did [00:43:00] too. And, and um, and, and, but you’re right cuz it is this weird thing cuz you’re like, okay, well they should have just done like the old method of like the, the, the, you know, um, uh, circular drum or whatever the method is, and just take the, take the, the photograph. And I understand that in most cases it is better to just, you know, like do the OCR and whatnot, but clearly it’s not always the case.

[00:43:22] Christina: There was this other thing, there was this other thing that I read, um, on hacker. Um, a couple months ago, I’ll see if I can find it, but there’s this guy who’s been, he basically, uh, was trying to figure out, I guess if it was worth like a, he was doing some sort of big photography project and he was wanting to do like a big, uh, uh, 35 millimeter, um, scans and the, the types of machines that are made for this sort of thing.

[00:43:45] Christina: Um, unfortunately the, the software that, uh, the, the main maker who made these machines, which were like many tens of thousands of dollars, they stopped support. Mac os passed a certain point, and, and I don’t think they ever, uh, you know, upgraded [00:44:00] to, um, to, to 64 bit or something. And, and so, um, you have to use like an old machine to get it to work.

[00:44:06] Christina: And, and, and the company, even though they were selling the machines until only a few years ago, uh, like refused to basically update anything. Um, and nobody’s making these types of, of scanners. Um, but if you’re doing the sort of precision work that this guy wants to do of like these full frame, like 35 millimeter scans for, from like certain full frame cameras, you need to use these super rare, hard to get and very, very expensive scanners.

[00:44:30] Christina: And, and everybody in Hacker News, because it’s a, you know, hell hole of, of, well actually, you know, Asby and Jack asses. Um, like they were all like, well, why can’t you just use this Epson scanner? This is the, the same d p and whatnot. And the guy was like, no, it’s not. The detail that it collects is not the same.

[00:44:48] Christina: And, and, and it was, it’s interesting that as much as technology has improved in some ways, the old kind of barrel drum ways that like a scanner worked like, you know, 50, 40 years ago is still [00:45:00] superior to what the, the current kind of method would be for, for capturing things, you know, like cheaper. It, it’s, it’s fascinating to think about that.

[00:45:08] Christina: Like it made me think about the, the Xerox thing because I, I get why they do it the way they’re doing it and are doing like the manual, like the, you know, computer aided OCR stuff, but at the same time it’s like you’re not actually getting copies. You think you need, you’ve, you’ve introduced a problem with all this stuff that, that you didn’t have, you know, which is terrifying.

[00:45:28] Jeff: Ah,

[00:45:29] Brett: So speaking of advances in technology, um, I we’re, we should, if we were responsible podcasts or switch to gratitude at this point, but, uh, We, we, uh, do you, do you have some time? Because I feel like we have put off talking about, uh, ai, uh, for a couple weeks now, and,

[00:45:53] Jeff: in fairness, assuming the AI would talk about itself.

[00:45:56] Christina: is true.

[00:45:57] Brett: Uh, but like last week chat, G [00:46:00] p t four was introduced, uh, Google finally came out with their Bard.

[00:46:06] Brett: Uh, uh, Microsoft made their chat, g p t powered Bing Public. And, uh, and then just very, very recently, GitHub announced co-pilot X, um, which, uh, th there’s just so much happening so fast right now. I’m kind of, I’m kind of curious, especially, I feel like Christina’s gonna have a lot to say about this. Um, but, but Christina, where would you, where would you start this convers.

[00:46:34] Christina: Well, I think that, so g p t four and, and then I guess also Google, you know, release or opening the wait list for Bard are, are kind of the two things. I think, um, co-pilot X is, is not a product, so to speak, as it is kinda like a vision of where we’re envisioning, like stuff like what the future of things can be.

[00:46:52] Christina: So some of the stuff will probably make its way into, you know, uh, co-pilot, like, uh, the C l I and, and, uh, the ability to, to [00:47:00] chat with it both for voice and um, with, uh, with text and some other stuff. And some other things are, you know, kinda more experimental in nature. But, um, yeah, I mean, to your point, I think that it, it’s shocking to me like I’ve been, I’ve been kind of beating the drum, um, For the, the, the show, the developer or news show that I, I write and, and do every week since probably, I don’t know, June or July, I really made like the consci conscientious decision to be like, Hey, this, this l l m stuff is becoming really, really big.

[00:47:32] Christina: And we’re starting to see a lot of really interesting things happening with generative AI beyond just, you know, uh, get up co-pilot and, and some of the other things we’d seen first starting with the art stuff and then now chat G P T and, and then now all these add-on things. Um, but to your point, like it, it’s crazy when you think that really how much stuff has December when chat g p T was released.

[00:47:56] Christina: But also if you go back even further, like if you go back to when stable diffusion [00:48:00] when was announced, which is like August and where we are now, it feels like a lifetime ago in, in some respects.

[00:48:07] Brett: have you seen Adobe Firefly?

[00:48:09] Christina: Yeah, I saw that, that that was also announced this week.

[00:48:11] Brett: It kind of fixes everything that was really wonky about like Dolly as far like to actually use it for creative purposes, for, to actually use it for like production purposes. Um, Firefly. Addresses so many of those, uh, AI image generation concerns. Yeah. Like this shit, like people, people may say right now, like, here’s what’s wrong with it, but I’m at the rate things are happening.

[00:48:41] Brett: Everything you’re complaining about right now is gonna be fixed. Give it a year, a year max, four years. And everything you’re talking about being wrong right now is going to be fixed. Like this is, this is here to stay. This is the future. The internet, the, the world of computing [00:49:00] is changing underneath our feet.

[00:49:02] Brett: Uh, people my age, uh, are going to have to make a decision to, uh, to, to get with it and to become, to become fluent in AI prompts or to try to eek out a living in what will soon be old school computing.

[00:49:26] Christina: Yeah, I mean, I think that I, I definitely think that we’re all going to have to become better at like, prompt, um, you know, uh, generation and,

[00:49:34] Brett: There’s like, there’s a whole market out there for like prompt generation courses.

[00:49:39] Christina: Oh, there is, and, and that, and that’s sort of the interesting thing. But I think that to me, like what you mentioned about Firefly, like to me, this is where I think we’re actually going to see really innovative art is when actual artists are using this stuff in their process, right? Like, it’s one thing if you’re giving it a prompt and it makes something that looks okay and you can, with the perfect thing in the, the exact right [00:50:00] response and, and the right tweaking, you can get a really great looking thumbnail, right?

[00:50:04] Christina: But then if you l if you zoom in and you go too close into it, then you’re like, eh, actually this looks a little bit jank. But, but it’s still really impressive. But when you then take something and go, okay, well I have these editing tools and I’m an artist and I’m able to tweak the model even more so to, to give it the right source of, of results that I want.

[00:50:21] Christina: And then me as an artist, I could go in and alter, you know, and, and make cleanup and make changes. That’s where I think you are. I think that’s where we’re going to see really exciting stuff.

[00:50:31] Brett: Firefly can do vector, which means it’s way easier to fix issues. Um,

[00:50:38] Christina: That I didn’t know. I didn’t realize it was Vector. That’s amazing.

[00:50:41] Brett: I took draw things that, like you, you mentioned, draw things as I think a, a gtu a while back, or you brought it up on the show. So I, I was checking out Draw Thingss and I was using the Mac version of it, and in just four prompts, I got a perfect, I [00:51:00] needed a blonde, like 20 something with a red hat screaming for various political purposes.

[00:51:08] Brett: And I was able to get like a perf, like exactly what was in my head in four prompts. Like it took four permutations of the prompt and I got exactly the image, like an image that I, I had no royalties, no, uh, no ownership, and I could just use however I wanted to to talk shit about a, an AI generated human being, but, Yeah.

[00:51:35] Brett: And, and, uh, the video there. So most of the AI video stuff, I believe, um, I don’t think there’s anything out there that for free will generate more than three seconds of video right now, because the potential for deep fakes is just so dangerous. Like, but I, I can make Obama for three [00:52:00] seconds. I can make Barack Obama say anything I want to, literally anything.

[00:52:04] Brett: And, and it’s completely convincing.

[00:52:07] Christina: The voice stuff is even scarier, uh, because the voice models have become really, really good. And, and it’s one of those things that I become a little bit worried. Like I’m not worried about anybody impersonating me for like ill will, right? Like, I don’t, that’s, that’s not so much my problem. My, my issue is more, I’m like, okay, my, there are are thousands of hours of my voice out there that someone could transfer into, and then if they got my parents' phone number or whatnot like that, that’s a gr This is a great way of, of doing, you know, the email scam where you send, oh, I’m, I’m stuck in a foreign country, you know, wire me this money.

[00:52:38] Christina: Okay, now you can do it using someone’s actual

[00:52:41] Brett: which is way more convincing for sure.

[00:52:44] Christina: more convincing, especially if you then spoof a phone number or something. You know, there’s a lot of stuff you can do. So, That’s, I do worry about that. Um, I, I worry about the deep fake stuff for sure, but I think that there are, I’m, I’m hoping that, [00:53:00] yeah, I mean, it’s one of those things I’m, I’m hesitant to call for more legislation and stuff, just because I think that the government does such a terrible job with tech in general, that even if I think that we need more legislation, I don’t have any faith that the, that congress has any understanding of what they’re talking about at all on any level.

[00:53:16] Christina: Um, but this is one of those areas where we’re gonna have to figure out, uh, things about like deep fakes for things like, you know, pornography and for impersonations really fast because the, the tools are getting so good, like turnkey, you know, just like anybody with like, you know, using a web interface can do the voice stuff.

[00:53:35] Brett: yeah, I made a pretty convincing minute long rant from Elon Musk talking about how he’d been a bot the whole time, and that his, his, uh, his vengeance towards bots on Twitter was actually a very self-defeating, um, tactic that he was using to convince people he wasn’t a bot. Like I wrote out a whole script.

[00:53:57] Brett: I had it read in Elon Musk’s voice, and [00:54:00] honestly, it sounds like Elon Musk giving an interview, um, maybe a little more lucid than he usually seems in interviews. Uh, but yeah, like the technology is there now and, and, and it’s scary, but a also at the same time, holy shit, we can do anything

[00:54:17] Christina: Yeah, it’s exciting too.

[00:54:19] Brett: I think so like when, when the internet first dawned when, when computers first dawned, like there was less trepidation than there is now because we hadn’t seen, seen things go, we hadn’t seen things misused as much previously.

[00:54:35] Brett: We didn’t know how bad things could get. Now we do, like we’ve seen where these technologies can go and like, um, everybody’s first reaction is fear when it comes to this, and rightly so. AI is scary shit. Um, like we have, we have decades of movies about how AI can destroy humanity. , but, but the potential is [00:55:00] also awesome.

[00:55:01] Jeff: Christina, will you kind of tell us about, um, GitHub’s co-pilot?

[00:55:09] Christina: Yeah, so the big thing is, is that so, so G p T four was announced last week, and it’s, it’s out now. Um, in terms of like the, uh, um, if you pay for chat, g p. You get access to it and the API is, there’s a wait list, but I think they’re adding people to it fairly quickly, and the model is significantly better.

[00:55:26] Christina: In some ways, it is a little bit slower in some regards. So when it comes to the, the model that copilot uses, we haven’t moved everything over to, to G P T four yet because, uh, we need to make sure that the, the speed and, and that stuff will be there. But there are some things that we will be using G P T for, um, for, with co-pilot.

[00:55:44] Christina: So co-pilot, uh, if you’re not familiar, is basically our pair programming assistant. That’s why it’s your co-pilot that gives you suggestions, um, and, and, you know, um, can, can generate code for you as, as, as you’re, uh, going along and, and it takes it both from. [00:56:00] Your style, but also the, the code that’s within the different projects that you’re working on.

[00:56:05] Christina: So it’s, the more you use it, uh, the better it gets. And so like, if you have a bunch of different files open all in a project, it’s going to be able to, to use that data to kind of infer, you know, the style that it’s doing and, and what suggestions it’s giving you. Um, but one of the things that you can do with the, the, uh, one of the, the GitHub co-pilot X things is that although you’ve been able to ask questions in comments before, now they’ve actually kind of built in like a, a chatbot type of interface.

[00:56:30] Christina: So it’s like you have a more chat G B T type of experience directly in your I D E, so you’re not having to move to another app. You can do it alongside that and then, you know, insert the code that way if that’s what you wanna do. Um, you can also explain code. We’ll even do things like in different languages.

[00:56:45] Christina: You can say, okay, you know, you can write something in Spanish and we’ll give you, you know, the, the corresponding code. Um, that way. Um, we’re, we’re also working on something. Uh, I see a beautiful cat right now as I’m talking. I love him. Um, or her. Um, and, [00:57:00] uh, we’re, uh, we, we’d previously called this, hey GitHub, and now it’s gonna be, uh, come I think a co-pilot voiced, I think, Don’t quote me on that.

[00:57:08] Christina: Basically where you can, uh, verbally talk to your IDE and generate things that way. But then some of the other exciting things are trying to bring this into other ways. So like, there’s co-pilot for docs, which so far we have working with M D M and Azure’s docs and like the React docs. And so this is a way where it’s basically, it’s been kind of trained on all of that documentation.

[00:57:28] Christina: So you can use that to, to ask questions and search better, which I think is really exciting. And then what, what Bread is gonna be super stoked about, and me as well, I’ve been using it for a couple of days, it’s really cool is there’s a, a copilot c l i, so you can actually use it in your terminal to, you know, say, okay, build me, you know, watermark a video for me using F F M Peg, um, and it will do that for you.

[00:57:54] Christina: Or write me a red X that does these things and it’ll do it for you. And also explain step by step what it’s [00:58:00] doing. Which is, is, I mean, like that’s, that’s gonna be really great for me.

[00:58:06] Brett: I want to use it with ff, F F M, peg and panoc and just something, something that knows all of the, all of the flags and switches and can just tell you, here’s what you need.

[00:58:18] Jeff: Yes. I take it. I’ll take it. I love it.

[00:58:22] Brett: I wish. I wish. So. As, as listeners know, I have never made the switch to VS code. Um, I have been using VS code just because that’s the only place GitHub co-pilot will work. Um, sublime Text. Short. Short,

[00:58:42] Christina: neo them and, and, and Neo.

[00:58:45] Brett: I’m a sublime text guy and while there have been some chat V p t, um, extensions plugins released for sublime texts, they are far behind what VS Code can do.[00:59:00]

[00:59:00] Brett: Um, so I will actually open up a project I’m working in, in sublime and we’ll open it in vs code just to like say, Hey, write me yard comments for this ruby function or, or fix, tell me how to debug this error I’m getting and it’ll, it’ll figure it out. Like it’s amazing for debugging if you have code that’s currently in an R A P L A rep.

[00:59:27] Brett: If it’s currently returning an error, uh, co-pilot can debug that error and tell you how to fix it. It’s so fast. It’s nice.

[00:59:36] Jeff: The thing I wonder is like using, uh, using AI for coding still requires, uh, an ability to do computational thinking. Right. Um, I wonder how far we are from where that is not gonna be necessary at all.

[00:59:51] Christina: We’re, we’re getting closer than, than you would think. Like one of the things they showed off at, in the open AI did a live, a developer live stream for G P T four. And [01:00:00] one of the things they did was that, um, uh, uh, g d b, he took a photo, like he basically drew out like, uh, what a website would look like. He wanted to create like a joke generator.

[01:00:09] Christina: He took a photo of it, he uploaded it, um, and then used his discord bot to kind of ingest that into, to G P T four. And then it made that into code

[01:00:19] Jeff: Wow.

[01:00:20] Christina: and, and, and also did the job search from the functional stuff. So,

[01:00:23] Jeff: geeky.

[01:00:24] Brett: For at least a decade now, we’ve been promised technologies that would allow non coders to code. Um, I mean, even SQL L was originally developed for non coders to be able to work with databases. And I’ll be honest, uh, SQL takes some knowledge.

[01:00:43] Christina: it

[01:00:43] Jeff: Oh my God. When you get, when you get beyond, like, show me you know this from this column,

[01:00:49] Brett: tables. Um,

[01:00:51] Christina: Yeah. Little bobby tables.

[01:00:52] Brett: but we have been promised this for, for over a decade. Uh, this no code kind of approach, and I feel like [01:01:00] this is finally the technology that is going to make it possible for someone to envision a problem. And habit solved for them, um, to be able, you know, obviously you want them to have some power, some, some agency in the process.

[01:01:19] Brett: But yeah, we’re, we’re, we are definitely on the horizon seeing an era where, uh, a six-year-old kid can say, this is what I want to do, this is what I want my program to do. And, and, and have the program that does Exactly. If they know the right question to ask, it’ll do it.

[01:01:38] Christina: Yeah, we’re, we’re getting close. And I mean, the thing is, is that even, I mean, cuz there have been some really decent like, uh, low-code, no-code solutions. There’s a, there’s a company I like a lot called re. But even that one, you really need to understand like databases a little bit. You need to kind of have an understanding of, of what you’re wanting to do.

[01:01:56] Christina: It’s, it’s not really as drag and drop, like, uh, there’s, oh, this is what I wanted to mention. [01:02:00] There was a great article, uh, speaking of retool on their website last week. Um, they published, um, um, uh, history of Visual Basic, and it was just this beautiful, beautiful website, uh, this beautiful blog entry, the A, that was just like a fantastic thing to look at.

[01:02:16] Christina: And B, like, um, like every detail of the bitmap fonts, The design is also like this ex exhaust of like 5,000 plus word, like kind of oral history of, of Visual Basic. And um, I feel like, you know, we never really replaced Visual Basic and, and HyperCard in the web era. Like, for whatever reason we just didn’t do it.

[01:02:36] Christina: And, you know, maybe Flash was maybe the closest thing we came to that, but, but then that really didn’t go far enough and so we’ve lost that. And now I almost feel like we might finally get back to that. But with this addition of, you know, making it even easier in some regards, you know, for people to get like, you know, MVPs and proof of concepts running.

[01:02:57] Christina: Cuz I, I don’t think anybody would argue that like, the, the code you’re [01:03:00] going to do is gonna be like the, the greatest code or like the cleanest or anything, but it’s gonna get you out closer to an idea to go from there. S same, same as the art, right? It’s not, not like the art that, that these prompts generate are the works of art, but it’s giving you a, a starting place where then you can alter that and make and build off of that.

[01:03:19] Brett: in my experience thus far, um, I have taken stuff that I’ve written that I am perfectly confident in, and I have asked G P T to rewrite. Just, just to see what it would spit out if I said, rewrite this function. And it has provided, uh, code that was more in line with, uh, like modern coding practices, uh, that was more efficient, that was shorter, uh, that was more readable.

[01:03:50] Brett: Like it, it is always found a way. And then, and it always gives me like a bullet list of why it did what it did. Um, and yeah, like I, [01:04:00] like at first I was like, yeah, you can use it to write code, but you’re gonna want to check everything it does. It’s already like in, in a month. It’s already getting better to the, to the point where I actually trust it to rewrite functions for me.

[01:04:15] Brett: And there have been times that I’ve had it rewrite a function and that I’ve run, you know, spec tests on it. And it has failed, uh, for, for various reasons that have required some knowledge to figure out what went wrong. Uh, but for the most part, uh, like as far as adhering to modern coding practices, adhering to, uh, like you were saying, like it, it can understand a coding style and match it.

[01:04:44] Brett: Um, that it’s, it’s spectacular in that regard.

[01:04:49] Christina: Yeah, it will do the false hallucination thing. We’ll just kind of maybe create APIs that don’t exist, or it will create, you know, kind of endpoints to different things that that’s not really there. Right. It will, it will go that far and it will kind of trick [01:05:00] you or it will give you an explanation for something that will sound really great and be like, no, that’s not actually true.

[01:05:04] Christina: But, you know, these things are imperfect. Uh, but when they work and they work well, I would say like 90% of the time in a lot of these cases, it feels freaking magical in a way that, I don’t know, I’m excited by it. I know a lot of people are, are freaked out from the, you know, the, uh, ethical implications.

[01:05:22] Christina: And I’m not discounting any of that, but, but I just, I think about like all the cool shit that’s gonna get created because of stuff like this.

[01:05:29] Brett: Did I tell you guys about the support requests I got from Merck because someone had asked chat, G P T how to do something.

[01:05:39] Christina: No.

[01:05:40] Brett: Someone, someone was looking for a way to split a markdown document based on its headers into multiple files, which is a thing. Sure, I have written scripts that do this. Uh, but chat, G b t three told them that marked my application could do [01:06:00] this, and then proceeded to give them the exact menu options to use to accomplish this task.

[01:06:07] Brett: None of which actually exists in the application, but it, it had given them very detailed, very realistic sounding instructions for how to accomplish this with Mark. And they wrote me and they’re like, so can it actually do this? And I was like, no, this is obviously an AI fever dream, uh, for a feature that I never, I never had tort, but it was, it was ridiculously detailed.

[01:06:32] Jeff: Until you check the next day and the feature has been added. it’s total son of Anton situation. Yeah,

[01:06:41] Brett: Yes. Oh, man. All right. Should we, uh, this will, this will come up again. We are not done with ai, but should

[01:06:49] Jeff: AI is not done with us.

[01:06:51] Christina: No, it’s not.

[01:06:52] Brett: should we do some gratitude?

[01:06:53] Christina: Let’s do some gratitude.

[01:06:55] Jeff: I can go first. So I, there’s this app that you, one of you [01:07:00] mentioned last week in talking about another app, and I had actually never heard of it. And it’s Mac updater somehow. I’ve never heard of it though. It’s clearly just, I mean by the design has clearly been around a long time.

[01:07:13] Jeff: Um, is that true?

[01:07:15] Christina: Um, it’s been around, that’s like four years.

[01:07:18] Jeff: Okay. Not that

[01:07:19] Christina: No. And, and version three just came out.

[01:07:21] Jeff: So, um, it, it’s, it’s wonderful For anybody that doesn’t know it, it’s just, it, it, it gives you an, a really nice interface for seeing which of your apps, uh, have updates available. It’s also a really nice way to read the, um, notes on those, uh, on those updates. Really awesome for me. I, I, I always miss those.

[01:07:41] Jeff: Otherwise, and this actually, I’ve noticed I end up going into the, um, developer’s notes before I update because it’s just so easy to do. Um, and they also have like a discover function, which I have not used that much, but it just,

[01:07:59] Brett: it’s [01:08:00] interesting. You can see what, if you wanna find out what apps are currently under frequent and development, the Discover tab is great.

[01:08:07] Jeff: yeah. And what’s free and what costs money and what, what’s popular and what’s not, and what’s a minor, um, update and what’s a major update or what is their minor or it’s, what does that mean actually

[01:08:18] Brett: semantic versioning, like a, a major update is, so you have, uh, 1.0 0.0, right? Uh, the one is major updates, the Z, the first zero is minor updates, and the third zero is patch updates. So if something says major update, it’s going from like 1.0 to 2.0. But if it’s a minor update, it’s going from 1.1 to 1.2, and then a patch update would be like 1.2, 0.1 to 1.2 0.2.

[01:08:46] Jeff: Okay. Got it. The other thing that I noticed when I was going to buy it is that they have this really awesome policy where if you’re a student or a resident of the 40 least wealthy nations, [01:09:00] you get a significant discount. And I was just like, what a, that’s like a cool little thing to add.

[01:09:05] Jeff: Like I, I’ve never seen that before, um, ever. And so anyway, it’s a, just a lovely, simple but complex, uh, app that is elegant and serving me well. So thanks for mentioning it last week. Um, yeah.

[01:09:21] Brett: full disclosure, and Jeff had no idea, but they have sponsored brett Terpstra dot com and they will be sponsoring again in April. Um, I am a huge fan. Like I only take sponsorships from things that I use and love and, uh, and their version 3.0.

[01:09:39] Christina: It’s great.

[01:09:40] Brett: Add things like, uh, completely interaction free pkg like package installation.

[01:09:48] Brett: So right now in version 2.0, if you upgrade an app that requires a package install Microsoft Teams for exa, for example, um, you have to, it’ll, [01:10:00] it’ll say, could not con con complete the upgrade. Uh, you have to interact and it would pop up the package install and you would, you know, tab through, enter your password and everything, and then it would finish and then it would recognize that the updated happened.

[01:10:15] Brett: Version three, uh, does a much better job of making pkg installation. Interaction free, like it can just complete them for you, which is, it’s kind of a big deal because I use a Mac updater every day and like I, I have enough apps that I get an update screen every day and anything it can update automatically.

[01:10:39] Brett: I select quick update apps, hit the button, it’s done. Um, but there’s always one app that needs interaction that I would love to just seamlessly have happen. So I’m excited to start using 3.0

[01:10:54] Jeff: Awesome.

[01:10:55] Christina: Yeah. And, and they’ve never sponsored me unfortunately, but I’ve been a fan of theirs for a [01:11:00] long time. And I will say, uh, that, uh, the, the c l I tool, which is part of like the, the, um, pro and like the business, um, license or whatever, you can get like a, a command line, um, utility that, that’s included in the bundle.

[01:11:12] Christina: That was because I requested, uh, that and, uh,

[01:11:17] Jeff: Yes.

[01:11:18] Brett: a Christina feature. Nice.

[01:11:19] Christina: was a Christina feature. And, and I was like, this is great because in my mind, cuz one of the things I like about. Is that it can pull things from home. Brew can pull things from a lot of different sources. And so if I can use it from the cli I’m like, oh, okay, well this is actually great while I’m doing my brew updates and whatnot, I can just, you know, query Mac updater.

[01:11:37] Christina: Um, instead of having to maybe, you know, go through the, the UI sometimes just easier or if you wanna build a script to do something automated. I just, I was just like, why not? Uh, big fan, big fan of that. So, uh,

[01:11:49] Jeff: Awesome.

[01:11:50] Christina: uh, plus one on that.

[01:11:52] Jeff: Yeah. Love it.

[01:11:53] Brett: All right. Christina, do you know what you’re picking this

[01:11:56] Christina: I do, I do, I’ve got a couple things actually. So, [01:12:00] um, while we’re talking about ai, one of the things, you know, that, that, uh, one of the cooler models that Open AI released, and they released this, um, like six weeks I think maybe before, uh, chat G B T. And so it didn’t get as much attention but it as Whisper, which is their, their speech to text model.

[01:12:16] Christina: And they can basically take and translate, uh, a speech into text and it’s actually.

[01:12:22] Brett: this on our podcast. It’s really good.

[01:12:25] Christina: It’s incredibly good. And what’s amazing about it is that like it’s, I mean, I’m, I’m gonna be honest with you, I’ve paid for, The, you know, human translation services that you pay, like whatever the, the dollar a minute things, um, for, uh, or, or $10 a minute, whatever, whatever the, the fee is for stuff.

[01:12:44] Christina: I’ve done that stuff for years. Then audit audited those things and the s r t files and the, the stuff that whispered gives you is incredibly good. You might have to make a couple of corrections and it has a hard time with some punctuation, but by and large, it [01:13:00] is better than anything I’ve ever seen from kind of like AI generated things.

[01:13:04] Christina: Uh, and because it’s O whisper is actually open source, you can actually locally host it and run it on your own machine. So you could have like a, a, a web hosted version obviously, but you could have like the, you know, assuming you have enough RAM and enough resources, you can run these things on your own machine.

[01:13:19] Christina: The problem is, is that actually, you know, if you don’t wanna have Python set up and, and run through, , um, all of that, uh, uh, stuff, it can be a little bit complicated. And I was working, um, on potentially like an open source project to try to make like a kind of an electron wrapper or something with that.

[01:13:35] Christina: Um, but that, that project has, um, uh, unfortunately kind of, uh, been sidetracked for a little bit. But there are a couple of alternatives, um, that don’t do everything that we were wanting to do with, with a stage whisper, but are getting close. And so the first one I’m gonna mention is called ico, A I K O, and it’s from, uh, Cindra, uh, Sohu, who we’ve talked about his stuff before.

[01:13:59] Christina: He makes, uh, [01:14:00] you know, he open sources and, uh, basically everything he does and, and makes his living that way has a bunch of great apps. Um, like, uh, he did, he has the, the interface for, uh, for Jif Ski, the, the, the gooey for that. And, uh, and, and Lango, which is like, you know, um, kind of like amphetamine. And, um, he, you know, has, um, a bunch of other stuff on his GitHub repo and in the Mac App store.

[01:14:24] Christina: And ICO is AI powered audio transcription. It’s free, it’s in the Mac app. It’ll work on Intel and on Apple Silicone Max. These models do tend to run better on Apple Silicone Max, unless you have a beefy G P U. Um, and uh, he does also have a non app store, uh, version available if for some reason you can’t access it, but that’s not gonna get updated.

[01:14:44] Christina: This will run on iOS and it’ll run on, um, on Mac os. And this is just an easy way to do high quality on device transcription it, and it includes shortcut support. Um, this is really great I think for, for most people’s stuff, but if you need more features, [01:15:00] so it uses the, the whisper, large V2 model, um, um, in, uh, in the medium or small model on iOS, depending on what memory you have available.

[01:15:09] Christina: Um, and so, um, this is a really great, you know, if you’re Mac user, a really, really great way to, um, uh, get transcripts for your podcast or your YouTube files or whatever the case may be. So I’m gonna give that a shout out. But then there’s another app called. Mac Whisper is unfortunately not open sourced, but there is a free version.

[01:15:29] Christina: And then there is a pro version, which I actually paid for, uh, to, to kind of play with. The free version will do a lot of things. This will actually transcribe between a bunch of different languages. So if you’re wanting to, uh, upload something in one language, it’ll transcribe to others. Um, the free version, um, uh, has, uh, some limited, um, model size.

[01:15:49] Christina: Um, but if you want it to have faster and, uh, more accurate model sizes, you can get Mac Whisper Pro. What I really like about Mac [01:16:00] Whisper, the free version even does this, is that it will export what it does for you in s r t or v t t subtitle, export, or a CSV export. So the fact that I can get an s r t file from this and then I can upload that to YouTube is fucking great because that saves me a lot of time and also, Potentially it’s gonna save us like money from, um, you know, the, the service that we’ve been using to have some of my videos transcribed.

[01:16:24] Christina: It’s really, really good. Um, you can take things even directly from like the voice memos app, uh, which is great. And then you can, you know, it’ll also support things from like MP3 or Wave or, you know, M four A or whatever. You can just give it a, a, a YouTube, um, link even. Um, and, and it’ll automatically, um, like you can just enter in the url, uh, from your YouTube video and it’ll automatically start to, to do the transcription.

[01:16:48] Christina: You can also open files or even like create a new recording. You can choose what, what size model. You’re wanting to use. Um, so, uh, both of those, the, the free version of Mac Whisper is really good. The, the pro [01:17:00] version is like 16 pounds, so it’s like 17 US dollars. Um, I, I feel like supporting the dev. Um, so I’ll have both of those linked.

[01:17:07] Christina: But if you’re looking at a way to try to do transcription and you wanna do it locally on your device, because maybe something like, you know, descript, which is great, but like, that either isn’t in your budget or you don’t, um, like Jeff, I think this would be great for you for journalism stuff. Like, you don’t necessarily want stuff on someone else’s server.

[01:17:24] Christina: Um, this, this, this. Right. Um, especially when you’re doing some of the stories you’re working on, like you just don’t want it there. Like, that’s like just it, it could be a legal issue, could be a lot of things. Um, I, I think that, uh, both of these are, are really good options. So ICO and Mac.

[01:17:41] Jeff: Awesome.

[01:17:41] Brett: Nice. And on the, on the ai uh, vein, um, my pick this week is pd, uh, P E T E Y, which is, um, an Apple watch only app. Uh, there’s not even an iOS counterpart for it, but it is [01:18:00] just an interface to Mac G P T. Um, i, I assume three, but maybe eventually chat G p t four. But, uh, basically like it gives me a little complication on my watch that I can hit.

[01:18:15] Brett: And ask it any question and get way better respon like for, you know, how you asked sir question. She says, here’s what I found on the web. And

[01:18:25] Jeff: Yes. Yes.

[01:18:26] Brett: she says, here’s what I found on the web. And, and even, even Google, uh, if you, if you have a, a Google Home, whatever, um, it will often just read you a webpage.

[01:18:37] Brett: And p PD will actually give you usually a correct and detailed answer to just about any question you could possibly ask it. So when you’re in the car, when you’re in the car with your significant other, and one person says something you don’t agree with, and you say, I don’t think that’s true. And they say, oh yeah, look it up.[01:19:00]

[01:19:00] Brett: This is what you turn to, this is, this is how you look it up. And then you say, see, PD says so,

[01:19:06] Christina: That’s

[01:19:07] Jeff: and pretty soon you are dating a

[01:19:09] Brett: or in most cases, well, okay, PD says you’re right.

[01:19:13] Christina: No, what I was gonna say is great timing on this because literally, um, uh, yesterday they, um, release an update that adds, uh, G P T four support, um, as an internet purchase. So it, it’s $5 and then there’s a $3 thing if you wanna get G P T four support. So, which I, I think is very, which I think is very reasonable, especially when you consider like you’re not having to bother with putting in your own, you know, op open AI keys, you know, API keys and whatnot.

[01:19:38] Christina: Um, yeah. This is pretty cool.

[01:19:39] Brett: Yep. All right. That was a good round. Thanks people.

[01:19:44] Jeff: Good round. Good round.

[01:19:46] Brett: Um, so, uh, I guess I feel like we’re at a logical conclusion here.

[01:19:53] Jeff: Yeah. It’s literally where we end every week.

[01:19:57] Brett: Literally where we end.

[01:19:59] Jeff: [01:20:00] Yeah.

[01:20:00] Brett: Get some sleep, guys.

[01:20:01] Jeff: I guess I sleep.

[01:20:03] Christina: get some sleep.