286: The One With Patrick Rhone

Patrick Rhone joins the gang for a journey through mental health, a bit of TV, and some favorite apps that bring back a lot of memories.

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Overtired 286

[00:00:00] Brett: Hey, welcome to overtired. I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here with my usual cohost, Christina Warren and Jeff Severns Guntzel and rounding out what is turning out to be a very Minnesota show this week. We have many, no St. Paul light.

[00:00:20] Patrick: Thank

[00:00:20] Meet Patrick Rhone

[00:00:20] Brett: word? Hi, Patrick. Rhone.

[00:00:22] Patrick: I,

[00:00:23] Brett: Welcome to the show.

[00:00:25] Patrick: I appreciate that quick correction.

[00:00:27] Brett: Is it St. Police though?

[00:00:29] What

[00:00:29] Patrick: here. Uh, so,

[00:00:31] Jeff: are you from.

[00:00:32] Patrick: and St. Paul, uh, collectively referred to as the twin cities are divided essentially by the Mississippi river. Um, Minneapolis is on the west side of the river and St. Paul is on the east side of the river.

[00:00:45] Um, my wife often says that St. Paul is the last Eastern city. Minneapolis is the first Western city. If you want to understand the kind of culture and, uh, and, and difference [00:01:00] between say old money, new money. Um, sort of feel of both cities,

[00:01:07] Brett: Even just to be clear geographically, it is not down the middle of this state or the country for that matter.

[00:01:13] Patrick: No geographically, that is not true, but certainly from a, um, from a general feel standpoint is a very easy way to kind of, um, come to one place and see kind of the, the division between east and west, uh, that happened, uh, as you know, the country was being settled further and further west, um, and kind of, uh, St.

[00:01:41] Paul being the first of the two cities to be settled, it kind of held on to it’s very, um, uh, turn of the century Victorian feel. Uh, whereas Minneapolis has not met a building, um, older [00:02:00] than 10 years, that it is not willing to tear down and

[00:02:03] Jeff: That is not willing to Clare down and erase from memory.

[00:02:06] Patrick: Yes. Yes. They have no problem doing so whatsoever in St.

[00:02:09] Paul, you would have like pitchforks and, and, uh, people with, uh, Firesticks, uh, trying to burn it down. If you

[00:02:17] Brett: Does this seem accurate to you, Jeff,

[00:02:20] Jeff: Yeah. Starting in the seventies when a lot of cities, but definitely Minneapolis. We’re like, Hey, it’s a new time. This kind of old stuff, that’s all ordinate. This is just old. Let’s get some new stuff going. And pretty soon it’s like, wait, what? I didn’t know new is going to be brutalist architecture. And like, you know, when, uh, you know, we destroyed so much of what, uh, would have been a real beautiful historic feel of this city and this downtown as specialty.

[00:02:47] Brett: but Minneapolis has all the biggest buildings, all the tallest buildings.

[00:02:53] Patrick: That is true. And in the state that’s

[00:02:55] Jeff: that’s not a

[00:02:56] Brett: that’s, that’s not nothing.

[00:02:58] Jeff: Let me tell you some of my city, we got [00:03:00] some tall buildings.

[00:03:04] Brett: So, I don’t know if you guys have ever noticed this, but, uh, we have a pretty heavy mental health bent on this show. Um, which is, which is, yeah, it, it, it happens on occasion. Uh, we have a whole corner dedicated to mental health, um, which is why I asked Patrick to be on this week. Uh, Patrick is the president of the board of mental health, Minnesota.

[00:03:31] Is that right?

[00:03:32] Patrick: That is correct. Yes. Mental health, Minnesota is a advocacy outreach and direct service organization, whose mission is, to , advocate for provide help for, and to really, help people, start handling, um, their, whatever mental health crises issues, whatever, uh, what they like to call before stage four.

[00:03:55] Right. Um, that, uh, the kind of, one [00:04:00] of our main things is to help people identify where they’re at provide peer support for folks that is a one step down from a crisis or one step before, um, crisis and the help to prevent it from getting to that stage.

[00:04:15] Brett: You were on like a support line, don’t you? Isn’t there a.

[00:04:18] Patrick: Yes. It’s called the Minnesota, uh, warm line, um, kind of a play on hotline because.

[00:04:25] Brett: quite a hotline.

[00:04:26] Patrick: It’s not a hotline, right? It’s not, it’s not a suicide prevention hotline. It’s it is a Warmline that is staffed by certified peer specialists, folks with actual lived experience, uh, and are, you know, mental illness survivors themselves, uh, who, um, are there just to talk to you when, Hey, you’re having, you’re having a bad day or you’re feeling like something’s coming on?

[00:04:52] You know, it’s not quite like I don’t, you know, I, I’m not thinking about suicide, but I’m really, I need to talk to [00:05:00] somebody who gets it, you know, and my therapist isn’t available because, you know, I mean, they’re hard to get and I only see them every other week and I don’t really have anyone to talk to, or I don’t want to talk to my friends about this, or I just want it to be anonymous.

[00:05:14] And so here’s a place where, uh, someone in that sort of situation can call and be able to talk to somebody who, who gets it. And who’s been

[00:05:23] Brett: Have you ever, have you ever personally Mandel lines?

[00:05:28] Patrick: Uh, I have not personally man, the lines, but I can say not anonymously that I have personally used the service.

[00:05:34] Brett: Alright. Um,

[00:05:36] Patrick: what’s great is that they have no idea who I am when I call. So, you know,

[00:05:41] Mental Health Corner

[00:05:41] Brett: um, so in our mental health corner, we all do kind of a check-in. Um, I was thinking I would let either Jeff or Christina go first, uh, just to give Patrick a feel for how this goes, even though he has listened to a couple episodes just to set the mood. Uh, [00:06:00] Jeff, do you want to say.

[00:06:02] Jeff: Christina, do you want us to start?

[00:06:06] Christina: Totally start. Um, yeah, so, um, I’m doing pretty well. I would say I I’m being getting’s I’m still, my ADHD is one of those things that I struggle with sometimes because there are aspects of it that can be beneficial and that I feel like I really have it under control. And then there was some weeks when I realized, oh, shit, I completely dropped the ball on this email or this other thing.

[00:06:31] And now I’m going to have to like, do some catch up time on it. Um, so I’m trying to kind of work that through a little bit, but otherwise I cannot really complain too much. I feel like changing jobs and, um, having a little bit more, um, structure and, um, excitement around what I’m doing for the day. Job has actually really improved my mental health over the last six weeks or so.

[00:06:57] So that I’m, I’m in a good place. I don’t have too much [00:07:00] to talk about.

[00:07:02] Brett: we’ll talk about.

[00:07:03] it in a little bit, but w Jeff and I both said. The last episode of the download that you did forget hub.

[00:07:09] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:07:10] Brett: That is a good hub production,

[00:07:12] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:07:14] Brett: It looks to me for all intents and purposes. Like you’re killing it at your new job.

[00:07:19] Christina: Well, thank you. Thank you. Um, yeah, so this is actually kind of a funny story. So the download started at Microsoft and, um, I’d been doing it for about, I had like, like 10 or 11 episodes before I moved over and we I’d had to have, I’ve had to. Um, you know, make a pitch to even like bring back a show that I’d been doing beforehand, um, called the speaker on channel nine.

[00:07:48] Um, we’d had time off and, and some formatting changes. And I, but I knew that the idea behind the show, which is basically to cover the latest developer news of the week at the time, it [00:08:00] was through a little bit of a Microsoft lens. Now it’s not, which is even better for me. And, and I think for the audience, um, and, uh, basically I read all the blog posts, um, you know, hacker news entries, things on Reddit, whatnot, distill it into.

[00:08:14] A seven minute overview so that instead of having to spend your week trying to catch up, you can be like, okay, these are some of the cool things that happened or, or big product leases or security notes, what have you, and in the show was successful. Um, but, uh, I had no expectation that we would be able to continue doing it at get hub.

[00:08:34] And so my plan was okay, well, I’m just going to, even though I just started this thing and we come up with the graphics and, and the editing style, I’m just gonna recreate this. Uh, but it turns out that it was doing well enough that, um, the Microsoft was like, well, we will still let you use our resources and an editor, but it will live on the GitHub channel.

[00:08:55] And now, um, the, the editor pro content will be, um, [00:09:00] broader because it will be for the GitHub audience. So, um, it it’s working really well and I think people are liking it. So thank you both for watching it. And I know we’ll talk more about it, but yeah, I’m feeling good about it. And that definitely does make me feel good about my job.

[00:09:14] Brett: All

[00:09:14] Jeff: Yeah, it was great. That’s fun to watch.

[00:09:16] Brett: that’s awesome. Patrick goes next.

[00:09:18] Patrick: Okay. Sure. Yeah. Um, well, I don’t know Kurt currently, um, you know, we’re a little bit before the episode, Brett and I talked about like my long history with staff and folks that don’t know me, you know, that are probably not, um, familiar to regular listeners, uh, kind of my history. So I’ll try to, I’ll try to briefly cover it.

[00:09:42] Uh, but, uh, I was diagnosed as Mac depressive when I was 14, which was kind of the precursor to bipolar. Bipolar is not even a word or term that entered the lexicon until I was in my twenties. Um, and so, uh, yeah, so what was [00:10:00] considered, uh, a manic depressive is now necessarily, you know, it’s kind of now called bipolar, so I guess that’s my.

[00:10:08] Diagnosis, uh, treated off and on my entire life, uh, for that, uh, various ways and reasons, um, you know, up and down with various medications, um, up and down with various, uh, styles of, of therapy, psychiatric intervention, um, a couple of suicide attempts, uh, attempts of my younger time, which led to, you know, various 72 hour holds and things like that.

[00:10:39] Um, and, uh, really, uh, you know, struggled for quite some time, many, many years with my mental illness. Um, As it stands today and has been the case for about the past 15 years. Um, I manage my illness, uh, [00:11:00] through a mindfulness and meditation practice. Uh, I, uh, do not currently take medication. Um, I’m not opposed to it certainly.

[00:11:07] Um, and, you know, think it works for a lot of people and especially, uh, as time has gone on, it’s gotten a lot better for when I was on it. Um, and so yeah, big fan, you know, drugs are good. Um, um, uh, even the recreational stuff, sometimes a is, is a big help. And increasingly, as we know, they’re, they’re finding, uh, you know, dropping little tiny hits of acid

[00:11:29] Brett: Oh yeah. Those hallucinogens can be great for depression and bipolar.

[00:11:33] Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m really excited to see a lot of the research that’s coming out about that. And Michael Pollan, Poland, um, wrote a book, uh, about that, um, which, uh, I have yet to read, but I hear is really, really good if you’re interested in such a thing. Um, and, uh, yeah, and it’s something that plays a factor throughout my family to various degrees.

[00:11:57] Uh, my, my young [00:12:00] youngest daughter, my 14 year old, um, um, deals with anxiety, uh, and, and, uh, working through that and, you know, has therapy, uh, for that both, uh, at school. Uh, she, they’ve got a great, uh, counselor, um, licensed therapist, right at school that she sees almost several times a week. Um, and then, yeah, it was not great.

[00:12:23] Um, uh,

[00:12:25] Christina: That’s amazing. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt you. I just, I’m just like, that’s incredible

[00:12:30] Patrick: Yeah. Well, and I mean, you know, in fairness, she goes to a, a, to a private school, so that’s not a, you know, unfortunately that’s not the

[00:12:38] Brett: There’s the.

[00:12:39] Christina: Well, no, no, no, but

[00:12:41] Patrick: But even there.

[00:12:42] Christina: schools, I went to a private school and, and yeah. I mean, you know, like I, I had to go outside. I had like my private doctor and whatnot, but it certainly was not in a position where I could go a few times a week. So anyway, that’s.

[00:12:56] Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. But the, you know, the therapist at school is kind of there to [00:13:00] help her work through anxiety issues and, and things at the school they’re happening at the school. Right. And so she also has a therapist. She sees, uh, uh, every other week, uh, outside of school, um, to kind of talk about everything else.

[00:13:16] Um, and to just have that outside ear, uh, someone that’s not kind of invested in her life in any other way outside of just, you know, uh, the therapy portion. Um, but my oldest daughter, I’ve got two much older children from my first marriage. Uh, she’s actually, uh, currently, um, in voluntarily committed, uh, uh, institutionalized for lack of a better word, um, as she was, uh, certainly, um, Uh, well deemed incorrectly, so a danger to herself and others, she severe mental illness, uh, you know, uh, what, uh, used to be called, [00:14:00] um, split personality or most vulnerable personality disorders now, uh, referred to I believe his personality, this affective disorder or something like that.

[00:14:08] Um, this associate with thank you first, not only just associated with the disorder, um, as well as a hell’s hand basket of other, um, diagnoses, um, and, uh, you know, in and out of addiction, in her attempts to self-medicate, uh, in and out of regular, you know, therapy, unable to hold down a job, uh, because of the severe mental health issues.

[00:14:34] Um, and, uh, so about five years ago, she was, uh, committed. Um, and it’s about a month away from, uh, getting, uh, into a group home situation, getting released from there, getting out and putting it, you know, she’ll live in a group home for, you know, six months a year for our longest needed until she can kind of, uh, get back on her feet.

[00:14:55] But she is, um, you know, talking to her on the phone and [00:15:00] visiting her regularly down in St. Peter, Minnesota. I can honestly say she is as healthy as she has ever been in her entire life. And is the absolute best thing that could’ve happened to her is shitty the way that she ended up there. But the, I mean, it literally, uh, you know, assuming that she kind of stays on top of things and she really has, uh, she’s saying the right things and doing the right things and thinking in the right way and that sort of thing.

[00:15:28] I really think she’s got a chance for success at living in otherwise normal and healthy life, especially can, um,

[00:15:35] Brett: how are you passing?

[00:15:37] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. It, and I also, I just want to come and like, it’s amazing. I think I’m sure a lot of that comes with your role and your advocacy, but being as open about this stuff is, is really refreshing.

[00:15:50] Patrick: You know, here’s the deal, right? And that is that we really, we, we gotta be open and kudos to you all for talking about this every, every week and [00:16:00] laying your cards out on the table, because gosh, you know what I would have given at age 14 to have you. Have you guys to have someone out there talking about this stuff that I wasn’t, this like crazy person that I was someone, and now I’m going to start tearing up.

[00:16:18] Cause I, you know, I I’m, I’m one of those guys, um, don’t show me like an ingredient card commercials as I get really just like a complete public mess. But, um, you know, or anything involving like daughters and fathers and they’re coming home from college and any of those sorts of commercials, like there was an at and T one a while back.

[00:16:37] I was just like, every time it would come on, it just flow. But no, seriously. Um, I can’t tell you how needed this is and how much we need to keep doing this and how much we need to do this out in public to everybody at the dinner table at the, we need to talk about this stuff because I was alone, you know, 40 years ago I was all [00:17:00] alone.

[00:17:01] Brett: Yeah.

[00:17:02] Patrick: I felt that way at least. I didn’t know anyone who had any mental health illness issues and knowing one who was manic-depressive. I didn’t know anyone who was seeing psychiatrist or a therapist. I didn’t know anyone taking medication. I didn’t know anyone. And I had evidence all over my family that this was a issue genetically and my family, but I never connected those dots and no one ever talked about it.

[00:17:26] Brett: yeah. well, like 20 years ago, I, I should have been diagnosed as bipolar and ADHD, but even then I should say more like 30 years ago, the people I did know who, who had acknowledged mental illnesses were ostracized to an extent where I didn’t, I didn’t want to be diagnosed with anything. Uh, after, after some suicidal ideation, I was sent to a psychiatrist who, uh, said I was depressed [00:18:00] and tried to put me on lithium and it didn’t go well.

[00:18:02] And I just left and I didn’t try again for another 15 years. Uh, and, and because they’re just there, wasn’t, there weren’t any examples out there. And I feel like kids. Growing up right now have something that even, even the youngest of us, even Christina didn’t have as a kid.

[00:18:24] Christina: No, no, no, no, no, not even remotely. And in fact, um, you know, I was because I had to be, I, because I did not have an excuse when I was in high school, I had to be open with my teachers about the fact that I was going through the depression and the anxiety in the terrible, um, process of, of changing out medications and.

[00:18:47] That was impacting my schoolwork and they were not at all understanding at least at the first high school that I was at. I’ve talked about that before they were not, and this was supposed to be one of the best schools in the state and they could not have been less understanding [00:19:00] and cared less. And in, you know, um, a relatively short period of time that the behavior that, that they showed would be completely unacceptable now, which is awesome, which is great.

[00:19:15] And I think that the only reason it changes is because of people like Patrick and because we do more to get to show to, to, you know, have for the 14 year old us, doesn’t have to feel alone anymore. Right. Like I think that’s the only reason that we’ve had progress. And so, yeah, I, um, I mean, I could tear up thinking about it too, but it’s, it’s I’m so, so, so happy that 14 year olds today, um, not

[00:19:43] Patrick: Have therapists in their school for God’s sakes.

[00:19:46] Brett: Yeah.

[00:19:46] Christina: Right, but, but they don’t, it’s not it’s they don’t have to face the same level of stuff that we did. And, and that is amazing.

[00:19:54] Patrick: Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s, it’s so blessing. So I will answer the question, um, [00:20:00] you know, today I’m fine, but that’s today, um, every day is a different thing and I’ve, I’ve written about this. I’ve got to post, if people want to look it up called the piggyback guy, which is really the best way I’ve found, uh, to, uh, to describe what it’s like to live with a mental illness and more specifically with depression.

[00:20:21] Um, um, but, uh, uh, it’s on Patrick rhone.net. Just, just do a search for, uh, Patrick roam, piggyback guy, and you’ll find it, um, in any

[00:20:33] Brett: in the show notes.

[00:20:35] Patrick: Terrific. Um, so basically I describe it like this. It’s like having a 300 pound guy. Who’s mean and smelly and horrible, and he’s demanding a piggyback ride. That’s all he wants is simple.

[00:20:52] He just wants to be back. Right. And, um, you know, you don’t want to give him a piggyback. [00:21:00] And sometimes he’s off in the corner, just sulking and you barely even know he’s there and you know, you can just safely ignore him, you know, he’s there, you know, he he’s always there. He never disappears, but you know, he’s like he can’t hear them.

[00:21:14] Yeah. Some days you wake up, you know, and he’s like right over your shoulder and he’s just going in your saying, Hey, give me a fucking piggy rag, man. What’s your fucking problem. Look, look, are you some sort of asshole? Cause you won’t give me one. Cause I mean like I saw him asking for is really not much, man.

[00:21:31] Just give me the fucking ride, you know? And you’re kidding. Oh geez. I don’t. I know cause I know if I give you the ride, I know where the now no, no I’m going to be good this time. I’m going to get right off. It won’t be more and you just care me a block man, half a block. I don’t care. Just let me get on your back.

[00:21:45] Didn’t and you you’re fighting him all day long and he’s trying to get his piggyback right? And then he starts yelling at you. Like, you know what, you’re a fucking piece of shit, man. You’re a horrible person for not giving me a ride. What kind of horrible person doesn’t like, give his friend a piggyback ride.[00:22:00]

[00:22:00] You’re just like, maybe you should just die. Right? And, and like, you know, it’s, it’s really horrible and really hard to ignore them. Some days you wake up and he’s literally sitting on your chest and you can’t move, you can’t get out of bed. And he says, breathing in your face and he’s just brooding. And you know that the only way you’re ever going to get rid of this guy, the only thing that will give you peace is death.

[00:22:29] That you’re going to have to live with this asshole for the rest of your life. And every single day put up with some level of his shit. That’s what it feels like. And some

[00:22:41] Brett: Wow.

[00:22:42] Patrick: days he’s off in the corner and you can ignore. Last Wednesday for me, he was right over my shoulder and I don’t know why there was nothing that caused it.

[00:22:53] Right. And today I have no idea where he is, but I know he’s there. I can’t [00:23:00] see him. I don’t know I’m going about my life, but I know that the rest of my life, I’m going to go about it. Knowing he’s there somewhere, um, at various levels and degrees. And that the only way I’m going to be able to kind of, um, you know, deal with that live with that is to, um, you know, accept it, work my way through it.

[00:23:25] Mentally recognize that on the days when he’s really close, that may be a day that I need to rearrange some things, or I need to take it a little bit easier on myself, or I need to just go, okay, that’s that’s today. And that’s the way today is going to be. And I’m just going to be quiet and get through it.

[00:23:46] Brett: wrote a long piece a couple years ago about my bipolar addict shadow. And I don’t remember the exact metaphor I use in the piece and I never published it. [00:24:00] I wanted feedback on it, but I was too embarrassed to get it before I put it out. Um, but yeah, this idea of this almost outside force that, that I struggle against and with, and sometimes it come to that is just constantly against what I know is good for me.

[00:24:27] Uh, going against what I know I should, according to, you know, the rest of the world, what I should be feeling, what I should be thinking. Um, yeah, I, I, I hear you. I get that.

[00:24:39] Lies.

[00:24:40] Patrick: Yeah. Where the euphoria lies. Uh, one could take that as, as you know, where it lives, where it lays down and you know, but also where it lies

[00:24:51] Christina: But also we’re deceives you.

[00:24:53] Patrick: Yeah. Where it

[00:24:53] Jeff: under poet, but didn’t know it.

[00:24:57] That is nice. That is nice.[00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Patrick: I, I mean, I immediately heard it both ways.

[00:25:03] Brett: because you are a poet at heart.

[00:25:06] Patrick: Um, no, no, because you know, I, you know, words mean things and, and, uh, I, I find, I find it interesting when we choose them. So, so, um, uh, both, uh, accurately and ambiguously.

[00:25:23] Brett: that’s what makes you a great writer? Great writer, Patrick,

[00:25:26] Patrick: Thank you, Brett. I appreciate

[00:25:28] Brett: love of words.

[00:25:29] Patrick: I very much love you. You know that.

[00:25:31] Brett: I love you too.

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[00:27:07] White Anglo-Saxon Protestants or…

[00:27:07] Brett: So we have wasps and

[00:27:10] Patrick: Why, why do you have

[00:27:12] Brett: I

[00:27:12] Jeff: watch that

[00:27:14] Brett: I think there’s a nest. We have this vent that goes from our bathroom to outside and it gets a straight line from the bathroom fan to the side of the house where it goes out. And we’re pretty sure that wasps built a nest in there and. Me. I’m like, okay. So we call Orkin, we’ll get a bunch of chemicals sprayed in there and we just deal with this shit. My girlfriend, whoever is chemically sensitive and, uh, was not anxious to douse our home and chemicals. So what she came up with, she got a diffuser like this, like a Roma therapy [00:28:00] shit, uh, that like you put, you put your essential oils into and she filled it up with like highly concentrated mint, hung as a basket under we, we put a command hook on the wall and then there was a plant hook near the vent and she was strong.

[00:28:20] It she’s strong a basket so that it was within about six inches of the vent, plugged it into the wall and. Piped mint turned on the fan and piped mint through that vent for about four days straight. And I haven’t seen a wasp since

[00:28:40] Jeff: hold on, hold on. There’s an in-between

[00:28:42] Brett: cold. What, what?

[00:28:44] Jeff: there’s an in-between point. Cause that was on a zoom meeting with you when you were on your porch and had to step away every few minutes, like the mint, it wasn’t like this is going to end the wasps. It was like, this is going to make them disoriented.

[00:28:57] They’re going to fall out of here and I’m going

[00:28:59] Brett: [00:29:00] no. It was going to make them. move. The idea was to gradually make them so uncomfortable that they would decide to make a nest somewhere else. And for the last week, I really haven’t seen, there was one wasp in my fucking office that I didn’t see until it was four inches from my face. And I screamed like a, uh, a young woman. That sounded sexist.

[00:29:27] Jeff: that. I could hear your brain going. I’m not going to think girl, but

[00:29:30] Brett: I’m not going to

[00:29:30] Christina: Well, no, it was high pitched, you know, someone who hasn’t

[00:29:33] Brett: I screamed like a pathetic 43 year old man. Um, and, and, and Who’s scared to death of wasps. And I, I grabbed a, a magazine and I beat the shit out of that wasp. But other than that, I have not seen a single wasp and I am, I’m hesitant to say the problem is solved, but I honestly think [00:30:00] L’s mint therapy for the wasp might actually had done some

[00:30:04] Jeff: I don’t know if it’s the therapy that’s as which is more genius, the therapy or the basket strung between two points to

[00:30:11] Brett: It was very clever. She’s very

[00:30:13] Jeff: a lot of levels.

[00:30:15] Brett: what to look for at the store. Like it command hooks. I had never heard of them, but It’s a thing that like you can adhere to a wall and then it pulls off clean, beautiful stuff.

[00:30:26] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:30:27] Jeff: by bye local.

[00:30:28] Christina: I was going to say I, um,

[00:30:30] Brett: Minnesota should know that

[00:30:32] Christina: I was going to say, I, I should, uh, I I’m aware of that even though, like I have the messiest office in the world, but when I have like, plans of finally making it clean, I’m like, oh yes, I will use command hooks to adhere to things that, that I doesn’t leave a gross residue, but no, the basket and the men therapy.

[00:30:49] I hope that that is helping. I’m like you, I, I have a great fear of wasps, I think because I got stung by one when I was like two or three years old [00:31:00] and that has stuck with me. And it’s weird. Cause I’m not, I’m not really afraid of, of a lot of things. I don’t like bugs and I’m very allergic to, um, to, to insects, um, like, uh, nothing that would put me into like, um, you know, apoplectic shock, I don’t think.

[00:31:16] But, um,

[00:31:18] Brett: So far.

[00:31:19] Christina: so far, but no, I mean they’re there. can be out and there could be mosquitoes for a second. And people like, oh, it’s not that bad. And I’ll wind up with a welt so bad on my ring finger that they almost had to cut my, my wedding ring off of my ma my hand. Um, we were, fortunately I was able to get like a steroid, um, so that we didn’t have to do that.

[00:31:38] But, um, I, uh, yeah, I remember being stung by a wasp when I was really little and like, to this day, that’s one of the few things I’m like. Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope.

[00:31:48] Brett: the, to the best of my recollection, I have never been stung by a wasp, but when I was about 10 years old, I was hiking with my grandfather on my [00:32:00] dad’s side. And we were in Missouri and there was an underground, I think, yellow jacket hive. And I did were two people in front of me who both stepped on it before I got there, but I was the third and final straw.

[00:32:15] And I stepped on that hive. I got stung about 50 times

[00:32:19] Christina: oh my.

[00:32:20] Brett: and the weird thing is now I am scared of wasp, but I don’t give a shit about bees. Cause I’ve Been there,

[00:32:28] I’ve done that. Like I can survive. I can survive all the bees. You can bring no problem, but a wasp or a Hornet. Oh, I’m scared shitless.

[00:32:38] Christina: Well, and, and we all remember like, like the classic Macaulay Culkin film, my girl. Right.

[00:32:43] Patrick: yes.

[00:32:44] Jeff: didn’t see my

[00:32:45] Brett: see.

[00:32:46] Christina: Okay. All right, right. Patrick was going

[00:32:48] Patrick: Well, who was the female, sir? Was that true? That wasn’t true much. That was like one

[00:32:51] Christina: No, no, that was Anna Chlumsky.

[00:32:53] Patrick: say yeah. Is there you go? Yeah. Anna Chlumsky yes.

[00:32:55] Christina: who, who went on to be on Veep. Um, and, uh, yeah, I know, but, but, but, but [00:33:00] Macaulay Culkin spoiler alert for 30 year old movie, uh, is, is killed by a bee, a bee sting. And, uh, and it’s very, very, very sad. And if you are like of a certain age, that is one of like the defining, like childhood moments as watching most famous child star in the world, die from obesity.

[00:33:20] Patrick: Yes,

[00:33:20] Brett: by the way, mosquitoes do not fuck with my, uh, for years. Like every, everyone will be like swatting, mosquitoes, welting up. And I wouldn’t get a single bite.

[00:33:32] Patrick: Well, you know why that

[00:33:33] Brett: see me and they would run.

[00:33:36] Patrick: Cause they’re all fucking with me. Like every mosquito in Minnesota is on me. So they’re leaving the rest of you

[00:33:43] Brett: yeah.

[00:33:44] Patrick: I’ll take my, thank you now.

[00:33:46] Brett: There was two, there, there was two years where I suddenly attracted every mosquito and I would get huge welts from them. Like I would react way more than a mosquito bite. I would get welt and [00:34:00] then it ended. And now I’m back to mosquitoes, not fuck with me. So I’m happy.

[00:34:04] Patrick: So I just a FYI. Um, so, uh, one of the things that someone who. In a crowd is the only one who gets like bitten by mosquitoes somehow. Um, uh, I’ve actually looked into this. Um, and, uh, I’m also one of those people where the, when the temperature gets above 70, I just start pouring buckets of sweat. Like it doesn’t matter.

[00:34:30] Like, uh, you know, I’m very, very hot sensitive. I just get used to sometime around this time of year, just literally being wet all the time. I’m always wet. I need to change my t-shirts, you know, sometimes two, sometimes three times a day. Um, and mosquitoes apparently really, really love guys like me who sweat a lot.

[00:34:50] Uh, cause that’s what attracts them is that, that, that, uh, that sweat, that odor that does the saltiness and all of that, like that’s what, that’s why I’m so much [00:35:00] more prone to. That all leads to my question for Brett, which is, can you tie it to anything else that has changed around those times when you like, you know, did you make any mental note about, Hmm.

[00:35:13] You know, I switched to a different medication for my bipolar, or I did this, or I did that. And something changed about your body chemistry.

[00:35:23] Brett: That’s a really good question, which leads me to note that, um, I am really bad about drawing correlations or I’m really bad at drawing correlations. I do not pay enough attention to like, for example, I can have intestinal issues, but not tie them to what I ate the day before. Like my brain just does not connect the dots.

[00:35:47] And I have such an ADHD memory that putting together long-term changes like that is nearly impossible for me. So it is [00:36:00] very possible that, uh, that it was all, you know, tied to an event or a change that I will probably never remember.

[00:36:11] Patrick: Interesting. Yeah. I, I would be very curious to find that out. Um, you know, I, I, I know that it, it does have to do with your own personal body chemistry and that some people are more prone to getting, uh, getting bit by mosquitoes and others, just because of that. Also blood type plays a factor as well.

[00:36:32] Christina: Oh, does it, does it, I I’m curious about that. Cause yeah, I am. I’m extremely allergic to any sort of like, like, like, uh, mosquitoes and, and, uh, aunts. Um, any, anything like in the mosquito family actually, like aunts are in their family, but I’m allergic to ants too. Uh, but mosquitoes, like there, there’ve been a couple of instances when things in that family have been flying around and just kind of like bit me on the arm and in, you [00:37:00] know, 30 minutes, like it’s this gigantic welt and people are like, oh my God, do you have to go to, you know, like, like the doctor or something.

[00:37:08] So.

[00:37:09] Patrick: So, Christina, what you’re saying is that you will never be visiting Minnesota, that if I want to meet you in person, I have to come to you.

[00:37:16] Christina: Well, I might, I might, I just might have to, you know, find a way to be indoors. A lot of the time I will say this, I will never go on like a lake vacation sort of thing, and Minnesota, right? Like I’m not going to go to, like, I’m not going to do like the whole like great, like outdoors, you know, family park thing.

[00:37:32] Like what hot American summer thing that I’m not going to

[00:37:35] Patrick: No, no boundary waters.

[00:37:37] Christina: long as,

[00:37:38] Patrick: Yeah, no, no canoeing. No.

[00:37:40] Christina: no,

[00:37:41] Patrick: right.

[00:37:42] Christina: no. I, I mean, I mean, it, it depends. I mean, I, I gave it a try, but it would probably be painful for me. I, uh, so, uh, I grew up in Atlanta and we have a lot of mosquitoes and things there too, but like the worst moments of my life were always when my parents would force me to go to camp types of things, because I was just [00:38:00] like, I’m going to be so miserable because of the bugs.

[00:38:04] What happens at Bible camp…

[00:38:04] Brett: Did you have to go to Bible camp?

[00:38:07] Christina: No.

[00:38:08] Brett: man, I did

[00:38:09] Patrick: no, I’m so sorry.

[00:38:11] Brett: first homosexual experience Bible.

[00:38:13] Christina: I mean that, that tracks honestly, uh, my, uh, my, my friend, Andrew, who, my friend growing up, like in high school, my friend, Andrew, a very religious mom, very gay, a kid who did not want to be gay, but is just as gay as K can be. And his mom like bribed him with a car to like go to like a gay conversion camp and whatnot, where I, where I think he like flux the instructors,

[00:38:38] Brett: Sure.

[00:38:38] Patrick: VA. Yeah.

[00:38:40] Christina: well, he was

[00:38:41] Brett: opposed to all those gay people who want to be gay, grew up as kids thinking, you know, it’d be really great if I were a gay.

[00:38:49] Christina: but he, but he was like, especially then he, like, he was like, oh, I, I think, I think, I think it can be a choice. I think I can change things. And, and my mom and I would, and my mom, and I’d be like, honey, no, like this is, this is who you are. [00:39:00] Um,

[00:39:01] Brett: that. I grew up in that pray the gay away. Like I, we were visited by people who would give their testimonials about how I used to succumb to the homosexual temptation, but I prayed the, gay away

[00:39:14] Christina: I mean, that’s what his mom would do. And we were, my parents were kind of like gassed at that and, and, and took him in for a while. And, um, but yeah, no, uh, that he liked much like you like Bible camp. I think a lot of his religious camp things that were really, really out there, whereas like the most like, um, experiences

[00:39:33] Brett: man. yeah.

[00:39:34] Between, between boy Scouts and, and, and Bible camp. I think most of my, most of the proclivities, I ended up, you know, embracing as an adult probably probably started at camp.

[00:39:51] Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. Well, my mom was an

[00:39:54] actress, so I

[00:39:54] grew up with nothing but gay people.

[00:39:56] Christina: Right. See, I was going to say, I was going to say, I w I was going to say, I [00:40:00] went to drama camp, which is like the one as sensibly for, you know, gay kids. And, uh, and so, you know yeah. Um, yeah.

[00:40:10] Patrick: yeah. All the, like all, all of my, you know, my mom was a single mom and, uh, all of the men in my life, like a father figure, you know, sort of people, um, were gay men, every single one

[00:40:26] Sponsor: TextExpander

[00:40:26] So I, I sent no fewer than five emails to Patrick before today’s episode. And, uh, we we’ve changed our format in recent weeks and what I should have done. Uh, after, after my last episode with Alex and the snafoos that we went through, there is I should have created a single text expander snippet to inform guests of all of the things that we do on this show, the mental health corner.

[00:40:59] [00:41:00] The, the requirement to record and Chrome, the gratitude list, like all of this could be in one snippet that I just shared with every guest. And if I use text expander, I could just have it with a fill-in. So I could say, Hey, guest’s name, here are all the details you need to know. And I could have done it in just a few keystrokes.

[00:41:23] If I had set up a Texas timber text expander snippet, which I am totally doing right now. Uh, Patrick and I discuss this. It is something that absolutely needs to happen. Today’s episode is brought to you by text expander, which I really should be making better use of right now.

[00:41:42] Visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more and get 20% off your first year that’s text expander.com/podcast.

[00:41:53] TV Party

[00:41:53] Brett: So we haven’t had a media segment for weeks now, and we don’t have time for all of us to [00:42:00] go into our favorite TV, but I’m really curious what Patrick watch watches on TV.

[00:42:04] Patrick: okay. Yeah. So I was explaining this to Brite before the show that, uh, my wife and I are not necessarily big TV people. We, um, You know, we, we definitely have, you know, several of the streaming services or whatever, but the TV is not a prominent part of our lives or even a proper part of our house.

[00:42:23] Like, you know, a lot of people’s houses, you walk into the living room and there’s a nice big screen TV there. Ours is a, in a room, we call it the library off to the side. Um, and we very intentionally like, you know, sit down to watch acts. And we usually watch one show at a time. but you know, might have several episodes streaming.

[00:42:44] We could quote unquote binge it, but we never do. We generally watch maybe an episode or two a week. Um, and it’s very unusual that we will, uh, watch more than that. Um, [00:43:00] and generally we watched together and so generally, and I’m saying generally for a reason, because there are certainly many cases that fall outside of that, as you might see.

[00:43:11] Well, w we’ll decide together what it is that we want to watch. um, but there are those things that, I know that are not going to be her cup of tea, but are very much my cup of tea. And I will go out of my way to watch those separately, you know, sneak in a, an hour here or a half hour there at the end of the night or whatever, to, and just do it on my own.

[00:43:34] Um, uh, so, uh, right now the ones, you know, all the ones that we’re watching are ones that we watched together. Uh, and they’re kind of boring and pedestrian. I know, um, we, uh, are big fans of the show. This is us, um, which is a show on and on, uh, NBC, but we watch it, uh, the night after, um, when it’s [00:44:00] available for streaming on Hulu.

[00:44:02] Um, and this currently in his final season, and I believe its final episode airs next week.

[00:44:08] Christina: Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say this the serious.

[00:44:13] Patrick: Yes, that is correct. And, you know, as we’ve already established, I’m very much a crier. And so this is the way that I, I, I cry every week, you know, I’m, I make sure to give my, my good cry on. Um, and then I cursed the show, have both my wife and I sit there after every episode going at this fucking show.

[00:44:34] And we’re, we’re just puddles of tears and it’s a great bonding experience. Um, also, uh, the second, uh, the second season of a show called hacks just came out on HBO, uh, which is fantastic. It follows, uh, a aging, uh, Las Vegas, a comedian, um, uh, and, uh, a young millennial comedic [00:45:00] writer that she hires, um, almost reluctantly.

[00:45:03] So, and, uh, they have this very interesting forge, this very interesting relationship. And not only is it our, um, just really funny and a good dynamic, uh, uh, but you know, it, it really does touch on a lot of those, you know, the aging, uh, comic is like, not that far off from my age. Um, you know, and, uh, the millennial is very much like everything we hate about millennials.

[00:45:33] Um,

[00:45:34] Brett: Sorry, Christina.

[00:45:36] Christina: Yeah.

[00:45:36] Patrick: sorry.

[00:45:37] Christina: everyone. Hey look, no look, look, we we’re the most hated generation for a reason to spine.

[00:45:41] Patrick: Well, well, but see, I’m an X-er so we people forget, we, even the millennials forget the, we exist.

[00:45:47] Christina: oh, no, no, no. I know my husband’s an Exeter. So, so he, he likes to say that all the time, he was like, well, everyone forgets photos, but we like it that way. And I’m like, yeah, I

[00:45:56] Patrick: know that we’d like it that way. It’s just that we know that we’re the ones [00:46:00] actually we’ve gotten used to it and we’re the ones who’s doing the work and not giving a shit. You can, you and the boomers can have it out. We don’t care

[00:46:06] Christina: totally, totally also also in FA I mean, and I’ve always argued this, like the X-ers defined the culture that like the millennials really

[00:46:13] Patrick: currently enjoy. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Not only are they obsessed with, with the recreating it currently right now?

[00:46:19] Brett: well, and all of the services we use every day came from X-ers. Man.

[00:46:24] Christina: well, well, some of them, I mean Facebook and Instagram and all that stuff, I mean, that’s my generation. So like,

[00:46:30] Brett: All right, fuck that. I’m off Facebook. I’m off Instagram. I’m X-er only from Huron.

[00:46:35] Patrick: That’s what it

[00:46:37] Brett: if it wasn’t, if it wasn’t created by actors.

[00:46:41] Patrick: Do they give you so many other, other reasons, but that’s the one that you’re choosing?

[00:46:45] Brett: I, I know, I know that the fact is I will never even claim to be leaving Facebook, Uh, until until something better comes along.

[00:46:56] Like I wouldn’t have left my space until Facebook [00:47:00] existed. I understand the value of, uh, social media with critical mass. And until something gets critical mass, it’s not worth giving up. You know, what’s currently working as many problems as it might have with Zuckerberg, with Facebook, with Instagram, with all of that.

[00:47:21] It’s it’s, it’s where, it’s where things happen. And, and I can’t,

[00:47:26] Patrick: uh, my, my wife, uh, is very, uh, very much a Facebook person. I have never, uh, really enjoyed the interface for Facebook and I’m, as you may know, and have, can tell I’m very much a look and feel guy I’m very much an interface guy and I, I get stressed out, just logging into Facebook. Um, and so I have a Facebook account.

[00:47:48] I keep it there. I never post to it. Uh, the main reason I have it is for those times when my wife says, oh, you should go home and come look at this on Facebook. And that happens about [00:48:00] maybe every three to four months and I’ll log in and I’ll look at something and I’ll be oh, okay. Um, and then I’ll, um, not log in again for several more months until she does that again.

[00:48:11] Um,

[00:48:12] Brett: just follow accounts that post memes, I just love memes.

[00:48:17] Christina: You’re such an old man.

[00:48:18] Patrick: I don’t right. My wife is a big fan of the, of like, you know, of course the algorithm does nothing, but, you know, feed her, uh, stupid animal videos. And so she, she just loves those. Loves

[00:48:31] Brett: you mean stupid animal

[00:48:32] Patrick: well are cute or adorable, you know? Yeah,

[00:48:36] Brett: Oh man, I follow entire accounts on Instagram that are nothing but like puppy and cat videos. Love

[00:48:45] Patrick: You, you, you, you and my wife had the same algorithm apparently.

[00:48:49] Christina: My friends that, that I worked with at Nashville back in the day, they created the side project that I think it was just a little bit too ahead of its time, but it was called the fluffing tin post. And

[00:48:59] Patrick: Oh my [00:49:00] gosh.

[00:49:01] Christina: and it was just like a collection. Like it was like a good daily digest of like cute animal stuff and, and, and the title was, was actually brilliant.

[00:49:09] So yeah.

[00:49:10] Patrick: Yes, please ship it. That’s that right there. I don’t know why, why w why is that not a thing? Cause you literally would like fill that with ads and make millions of dollars.

[00:49:22] Christina: know, I think they were just a little bit too ahead of their time. I just pulled up those site. It’s still exists, but it hasn’t been updated since December and it hadn’t been updated a lot, but like, this is the sort of thing that they should have turned into a very successful, um, like Facebook page or

[00:49:36] Patrick: Somebody should come along and offer them a few hundred thousand for that because that’s

[00:49:40] Christina: I agree.

[00:49:41] Patrick: easily a million dollar property easily. Yeah.

[00:49:46] Brett: So, uh, so I realized today I had, uh, I had breakfast with my parents and I brought my girlfriend along, which is rare. I don’t usually subject her to my parents. [00:50:00] Um, but we, we agreed for mother’s day. We agreed to play some games. My mom loves playing games and. So today we, we had breakfast and we played some catchphrase with my parents, which is always a blast.

[00:50:14] When you play with fundamentalists and words come up like sex change or, or, or heavy petting. And, and, and you’re teamed up with a fundamentalist Christian, and you have to come up with words. One of my words today was, was choose. And my immediate reaction was to go to go fetal, just to talk about fetuses and,

[00:50:43] Christina: Oh, my God.

[00:50:44] Brett: I avoided, but then brown sugar came up and I couldn’t help, but start with, it’s a type of heroin that the rolling stones sang about.

[00:50:54] And I got nowhere. In fact, we lost, we lost that the buzzer went off because I spent [00:51:00] so long trying to get my mom to guess brown sugar. Cause I started off on the wrong foot. All of this, this. I’ve realized I picked up my mom’s, my mom’s, uh, obsessive need to host, like she is always, she wants to direct the conversation.

[00:51:17] GrAPPtitude

[00:51:17] Brett: She wants to make sure everyone is having a good time and talking about things that matter. And, and I think that happens with this podcast. I feel like I demand the host role that said, I think it’s time for gratitude. That was all a way of me getting

[00:51:36] Jeff: Wow. Or was that a I, yeah,

[00:51:38] Brett: the longest walk we have ever taken

[00:51:41] Jeff: of the notes when you’re a kid and it’s like, choose four and you do the one up for.

[00:51:50] Brett: Well, let’s do, let’s do a gratitude. Um, uh, since I’m, you know, hosting. Apparently, I’m not your fault, [00:52:00] my fault I’m hosting because I demand that. Um, Jeff, what do you have for. gratitude this week?

[00:52:07] Jeff: Um, just a really quick and practical one. I ended up using it this week. Um, there are lots of ways to do batch file name renames. Um, but I use a, I use an app called, named Mangler more often than not, um, rather than writing a script or figuring out other ways to do it. It’s by this, um, developer many tricks, many magic tricks, many magic tricks.

[00:52:29] Um, name mailers is something where, you know, if you’re like me and you’ve got just. A total digital mess half the time. And sometimes that’s even true. Just I take on a work project and it’s got a bunch of files in it, and I want to standardize the files, the file names. Like you just dump all the files in to the app and then you start, you start creating conditions and if it meets certain conditions, it’s going to just rename all those things, whatever you tell it.

[00:52:55] Fast and pretty and such a practical, [00:53:00] practical thing. Um, it’s probably why I’ve never really learned, uh, scripting this problem because they’ve made it so easy that it doesn’t even justify me, like spending time on the front end. So that from then on, I have, you know, something automated, they just they’ve, they’ve done what needs to be done to, you know, they do rejects, they do find and replace all this stuff.

[00:53:24] Um, so as a super practical example, I have a database of a hundred, some interviews for a project I’m working on and I changed the naming convention at some point because these interviews have been ongoing, um, over three or four years, this is just a chunk of them. And I just want it to standardize all the names.

[00:53:41] And so I was able to dump all of the different files in and then just say, Hey, the ones that match this, I want them to look like the rest of these files. It’s just, it’s like, there’s all. And it’s well, well done. And

[00:53:52] Brett: I love many tricks. Too many tricks could be a choice on its own

[00:53:57] Jeff: Hold on. I’m pulling up many magic tricks. I know it’s called [00:54:00] matrix right now, which I think is a two person shop at least on the website.

[00:54:04] Um, but oh, they make move. Of course. What was I thinking? Uh, yeah, ma many tricks has been featured in gratitude before I have not used anything else of theirs

[00:54:14] Brett: What is the, what’s the, there’s like a file search tool that they make. Um, I’m blanking on what it’s called. It’s amazing. I will tag onto this to say, uh, and it may be a pick a mine in the future, but forklift the file

[00:54:30] Christina: Yeah.

[00:54:31] Brett: which is like the opposite of well com a competitor to Pathfinder, uh, forklift.

[00:54:39] If you select a bunch of files and hit return, which in macro S would be how you rename a file, you hit return. It will pop up a name, Mangler style dialogue that you can use search and replace and red Jack. To Rena and S and sequential, naming to rename multiple files and it’s built [00:55:00] into like, that’s, it’s not a reason to buy it on its own.

[00:55:04] If all you need to do as battery named files, uh, named Megler is amazing. But if you want a file manager that can also incorporate that kind of functionality, forklift is awesome.

[00:55:18] Jeff: That’s great. There’s also, I mean, I should add too, like you can run scripts through, um, named Mangler, but also you can just, you can save like essentially templates. So like if there’s a, I get, I get a lot of files from people. Like I sometimes manage interview teams and the qualitative work that I do. So if you know that you’re going to be getting just a ton of things for people, you can use name Mangler and a template, just make sure that you’re like making sure those are like standardized every time you can do this through.

[00:55:45] I’ve done it through Hazel, or it’s just like, there’s a folder. And if it goes in there, then things happen. But man, I just want to say name mango. I love you. And despite the fact that I can do some of this stuff elsewhere, that’s what I reach for. It’s like what we were talking about last [00:56:00] week with, um, with Jessie’s apps, uh, with task, paper and bike.

[00:56:04] And all of those is the kind of thing where it’s like, I use it all the time because there is almost no time between me deciding I need it. And me using it. There’s like no obstacles in that space. It just feels very natural. Like, like I know I want to lift my arm and I just lifted my arm. Anyway. I’ll stop there.

[00:56:20] Brett: man. I kind of want to make, I kind of want to pick moon for mine this week,

[00:56:25] Christina: Oh, yeah.

[00:56:25] Brett: make this like, uh, to make this a many tricks week, but I will wait. Um, I know Patrick has to, are we going to allow

[00:56:34] Jeff: Ooh, that’s fun. Yeah, of course.

[00:56:37] Patrick: Well, and

[00:56:38] Brett: us, give us a couple.

[00:56:39] Patrick: well, because just like that, there’s, they’re small one trick ponies kind of, well, that’s not true of one of them, but, but they’re small. They both been around for a long time. They both been through, uh, several different developer hands. So they’re almost kind of like, uh, like different Stuart’s take them on and bring them [00:57:00] to that next point into that next level.

[00:57:02] Right. Um, and they both have recently received, uh, updates , so, uh, they are, um, and maybe they’ve been covered before. I don’t know. I, I only listened back a certain. A certain amount, uh, but a jump cut for math. A jump cut is

[00:57:20] Christina: Oh, yeah, it jumped. That’s great.

[00:57:22] Patrick: yeah, a, a little, uh, uh, multiple clipboard application that lives in your menu bar.

[00:57:28] Um, but that’s not the way that I ever access it is, uh, you know, I, I use the key command a to bring it up. Um, but, um, it recently received an upgrade and update. I’m going to actually receive two, uh, updates. Um, and, uh, the way it works is, you know, you’ve, you can hold, uh, I don’t know. I have a set. I just use the defaults on thing.

[00:57:54] So I don’t know if it can do more, but, uh, it can hold up to 10. [00:58:00] Um, of your most recent, uh, copy actions, uh, most recent clipboard actions. Um, and so then you can, you know, paste them and go through like the ones that you saved and there’s a little key command to bring it up. And then, you know, you can just go through them by hitting 1, 2, 3, 4, or five.

[00:58:19] And it’ll just give you like the first one, the last one, and the next, last you get what I’m saying. Right. Um, and then you can just pace those as you go along. So it’s great for like, if you want to take a piece of this message and a P little piece of, of this next one, and you want to just be able to paste on boom, boom, boom, and boom.

[00:58:38] You can, you can do that and all through keyboard commands, and this is pretty straightforward.

[00:58:45] Brett: it will blow. If someone is watching you use your computer, like if you’re sharing your screen over zoom, you will blow their fucking

[00:58:53] Patrick: Yeah, they’ll go, wait, wait, what was that? How did you

[00:58:55] Brett: when you go to copies back and paste, what you copied [00:59:00] and you didn’t lose your clipboard contents because you have a record. yeah. You will blow their mind.

[00:59:05] Patrick: Will add you do it all like with your keyboard. So they don’t easily just see this magic

[00:59:10] Brett: How did you just do that? What is this sorcery?

[00:59:14] Patrick: This is very true. Um, and I use it all the time and I didn’t realize like how essential it was to me until it received an update. Um, and the first reason updated, received. Attempted to change that 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 selection behavior, where you could kind of jump back through your things. And as someone who just accepts defaults and then like something changes and like, I can’t figure out, okay, where was this in the read me?

[00:59:43] I don’t remember this. Or like, where where’s the instructions for? Like, what am I doing now? And like, I was completely lost for several days. I was like, I don’t know how to, how to use my Mac because I don’t have this. Um, and it’s not working the way that I expect. Um, [01:00:00] and, uh, then, um, a little update came out like a couple of days later where, uh, the developer, um, I’m not sure the developers, uh, name, uh, um,

[01:00:11] Jeff: Steve cook,

[01:00:13] Patrick: cook.

[01:00:13] Yeah.

[01:00:14] Jeff: get hub handles snark.

[01:00:16] Patrick: Okay. There you go. He, he, uh, Obviously released an update because he got that same like, oh, what’s happening to me from like several other, uh, people and decided to change that behavior back to the way that it was, uh, as the default and that made my life a lot happier. So jump cut, highly recommend it.

[01:00:37] It’s one of those little things that you’ll start relying on. And then when did you do, uh, you’re hooked? Um, it’s kind of like addiction. Um, and the other things we do you guys talk about on the show? Um, all right. Uh, the next, uh, other one that has received a recent update that I don’t know, like I haven’t seen this written about anywhere because like, you know, [01:01:00] I don’t know.

[01:01:00] Y’all are old school. You’ll remember back in the day, uh, when Quicksilver was all the rage.

[01:01:05] Brett: yes. Oh my God.

[01:01:07] Jeff: I almost picked, I almost picked, I almost picked quicks over today. Just for fun. Just to go

[01:01:12] Christina: fun. Cause

[01:01:13] Jeff: and give it the attitude. Yeah, the gratitude. It always deserved from me. Anyway.

[01:01:17] Patrick: Well then, so, um, Quicksilver is, uh, well, they call it like a launch. Your app is kind of wrong, you know, it’s, it’s kind of along the Alfred sort of, you know, it can do all sorts of things. It can even do that. Fancy, you know, multiple clipboard history thing, uh, that, uh,

[01:01:37] Christina: I was going to say I, I was going to say, I use, I use Alfred for mine, but I’ve used jump cut in the past, but, but I

[01:01:43] Patrick: exactly. Yeah. And, and quit and Quicksilver has it built into, but I, I never really got the hang or the, or the habit of using that one. I really do mainly use it almost essentially for app launching and, and finding documents and launching those quickly and whatnot.

[01:01:59] Brett: [01:02:00] So are you saying that Quicksilver is still an app?

[01:02:03] Christina: I actually just looked this up. It is.

[01:02:06] Patrick: It is still an act and it has a new steward.

[01:02:10] Um, you know, um, uh, his name is Jonathan Levi and he reached out to me about a month ago. Uh, actually probably a little bit more about, about six weeks ago saying, Hey, I, uh, you know, I’m reaching out to you cause I’m, I’m kind of the new steward for Quicksilver and we just updated it to like work on M when max and the whole nine yards.

[01:02:33] Jeff: shit. I’m looking at the update

[01:02:36] Patrick: Yes. Uh, and, and it’s, it’s back in action and we have, uh, we have a good future plan for it and we’re going to take good care of it. And I know back in the day, um, I was, I was told that between you and Merlin man, Th that you are the two that got quick silver, like all the attention that it ever got, like, you know, and I would really [01:03:00] appreciate it if you let folks know that, Hey, it’s back, it’s back in business, baby.

[01:03:05] Um, and so here I am fulfilling my promise. Quicksilver is now a 2.0 release, I believe. But no, he’s very committed to it. Uh, and, uh, and, uh, I, I mean, I couldn’t be happier and it literally came right at the time, right before I bought one of the new MacBook airs.

[01:03:23] Uh, so it’s like, oh my gosh, your timing couldn’t have been more perfect because I am literally in need of this right now. Um, yeah, he says, uh, you know, um, well my constant prodding I’ve finally managed to get them back under, uh, the hood and please inform me the Quicksilver 2.0 is now available. Uh, this.

[01:03:42] Includes a ton of major updates and improvements with even more to come. But here are my few of my favorites support for Al apple Silicon, uh, zoom plugin for launching meetings, Twitter updated Twitter plugin integration with reminders, app ability to automatically update catalog results. Whenever you change files a still [01:04:00] a hundred percent free, uh, and much, much more.

[01:04:03] Um, and he’s yeah, seems like a really, uh, really decent and committed guy, highly recommended.

[01:04:10] Brett: So, this is exciting. Like I’m a launch bar guy And I’m not switching anytime soon. Launch bar is just, I know it’s so well can’t function without it, but I started with Quicksilver. And the first time I heard of Merlin Mann was because of a quick silver post. And this is, this is. I didn’t become a Mac user until 2004.

[01:04:36] Me quick. Silver was like the first reason I thought, oh my God, max are amazing was because of Quicksilver. So this is very exciting news. That there’s a 2.0, and I’m definitely going to try it. I’m pretty sure I’ll like, I never, like I’ve been using launch bars since, before Alfred existed. I didn’t switch to Alvarez.

[01:04:58] Like I,

[01:04:58] love launch bar, [01:05:00] but holy shit. Yeah,

[01:05:02] Patrick: yeah. Well, and I think that’s kind of the thing, right? Is you find that thing that worked for you and you just want it to work forever. You don’t ever want to switch. So this is definitely something for the people who, who have, have been using Quicksilver all this time. I used it like, even though it crashed all the time for me, uh, over the past year and a half, I mean, it was just, it was hilarious whenever I would hit the key command for a quick solver and it wouldn’t come up, I did. He hit my remapped key command for spotlight. And the only thing I use spotlight for was Quicksilver enter to relaunch Quicksilver after it

[01:05:43] Brett: Right. Yeah. it always

[01:05:46] Patrick: literally did that for two years.

[01:05:49] Brett: to launch launch launch bar.

[01:05:51] Patrick: Exactly. So, so yes, this is definitely for those people that are, are married to Quicksilver and didn’t [01:06:00] realize that their wife got a new dress.

[01:06:03] Jeff: I, I had to say two things. One brew install, Quicksilver works. Um, and secondly, I’m not shitting you that. To make that my pick today. Um, I, because whenever I do think about what kind of apps that I want to pick for this, this moment in our podcast podcast, I ended up thinking back to Quicksilver because it was, I was, I started with max in 2002 and it was, it was my first experience as a Mac user with S with the developer, essentially showing me, Hey, look at this shit, you can do either stuff you can do here that they don’t really, they don’t have a way for you to do.

[01:06:42] Um, and, and that felt so like subversive and fun. And, but also just felt like natural. It just felt like it was, it was, it was a behavior that I, once I used it, I couldn’t believe it. Wasn’t built into the computer already. Um, so

[01:06:56] Patrick: I, and I will say that part of, part of the fun about [01:07:00] Quicksilver too, was the mysteriousness behind the developer. If you remember that there was this whole, like, like, like mythos behind, like

[01:07:10] Jeff: is black tree.

[01:07:11] Patrick: thing. Right. And, and, um, Merlin Mann did a, did a whole thing about when he posted about Quicksilver about like, this is some shady developer, like no one knows who this is, but they obviously have some dark magic they’re working with here sort of thing.

[01:07:27] And, and so that made it also kind of attractive and fun to use. And, you know, and unfortunately the, the new developer is a perfectly public white guy. So, you know, no, no, no, no mystery there.

[01:07:42] Brett: Underscore Y um, cool. All Right, So.

[01:07:48] Patrick: Got that reference, Brett.

[01:07:51] Brett: I’m going to pick, I’m gonna pick a, I’m going to pick moon. I was originally going to pick who to spot. I’m going to save it for another week, [01:08:00] unless I’ve already covered it. I’ve lost track already, but moon, uh, also from many tricks, like named Mangler is a window manager that it has superseded All others.

[01:08:14] For me, it gives me the ability to use the, uh, the yellow. No, the green and the traffic lights and a window. Uh, I can use that to draw where I want the window to appear on the screen. It gives me keyboard shortcuts to move a window to like the full left half of the screen, the full right. half of the screen.

[01:08:41] And it gives me the ability to take snapshots. So I get all of my windows for all of my OpenAPS positioned exactly the way I want them split across the screen, across multiple screens away. I want them, I can save that snapshot. And then the next time all of those apps are running. I can choose that [01:09:00] snapshot, which you can also do through bunch by the way.

[01:09:03] Uh, and, and it will automatically position all of those apps and all of their windows exactly the way I had them before. And it is to, to me, And, and I have some experience I speak from a place of knowledge. It is the best window manager, um, moon. That’s my, that’s my, that’s my spiel.

[01:09:31] Jeff: is this voodoo about dragging? I’m looking. I have moon,

[01:09:37] Brett: I can draw, I can draw exactly where I want this screen. to go. It’s amazing. It’s awesome. And I can do it all with keyboard shortcuts too. I can hit command. Actually. I hit hyper space for me and it pops up a grid on my screen and I can just draw where I want the window to appear. It’s it’s it’s beautiful.

[01:09:59] Okay. [01:10:00]

[01:10:00] Jeff: All right, Christina.

[01:10:02] Christina: All right. So, uh, great pics and super excited that that Quicksilver is back because like, um, everyone mentioned, like that was kind of one of my OG like Mac user. Like once I went like full time on the Mac apps and one of the things that really made me go be like, this is the best. Um, okay. So this is actually a relatively new, um, discovery for me.

[01:10:23] So I have, uh, for a lot of the video stuff that I have to do, which will we talked about sometimes that requires me converting things, um, in and out of, uh, various codecs and whatnot. And so the best library to do that with would of course be FF impact. And FFN can be really powerful as, as kind of a converter package.

[01:10:43] But the problem is, is that the interface, even though I’m fairly adept, you know, when the terminal is ridiculously complicated and, and, and to like, uh, remember what everything is that you’re doing, it is, it is honestly, I don’t have enough room in my brain to remember all that stuff. So I was [01:11:00] looking for a good gooey, a good front end for FFmpeg, and I found one it’s called FF works.

[01:11:05] So the website is FF works.net. Version three is out. Now it’s a Mac app. Um, it, that, uh, that uses the FFmpeg binary, but gives you a really great modern kind of front end, if you’re wanting to. Convert your media, you can drag and drop things. If you’re wanting to get more information about, you know, like what sorts of, of a file formats need to do.

[01:11:27] Um, if you need to add in like you want to have presets or add in subtitle support or do anything else, it’s basically a really great way of, of using FFmpeg, but without having to know every single thing about the man page, um, it’s a, it’s like 22 pounds. Um, I got the demo version and I really liked it.

[01:11:46] And I was like, yeah, I’m buying this so

[01:11:49] Brett: has use, give a price in,

[01:11:52] Christina: well,

[01:11:52] Jeff: I th I thought we had agreed on euros.

[01:11:54] Christina: Sorry. It is Euro’s and it is your as I was wrong. So, so, so it was, it was 22 euros. I don’t know what the, what the [01:12:00] conversion is. Well, I don’t know. I I’ve.

[01:12:03] Jeff: Oh, no, wait, wait. I wasn’t dogging on the same pounds. I actually forgot that. No, I’m just saying we, I was pretending like we had an agreed upon regular currency that wasn’t the U S dollar.

[01:12:13] Christina: yeah, no, no, I don’t actually know what the, I mean, I can open up, I guess, Alfred right now and say, uh, you know, like, um, you know,

[01:12:20] Brett: I’m just going to go to

[01:12:21] purchase now.

[01:12:23] Jeff: It looks awesome.

[01:12:25] Brett: Eh, one, let me with that interim email address, but Yeah.

[01:12:28] no, I have published articles on my blog with like aliases. You can add for FFM peg because the command line options are insane. This makes perfect sense to me.

[01:12:40] Christina: yeah. And it’s it, it’s a great app. It’s, it’s frequently updated. Um, and, uh, and so I couldn’t be more happy with this. It’s from a company called OSTP bites and, and I don’t really know much about them except that I think they’re German. Um, so again, sorry for getting your currency wrong. Um, but it is.

[01:12:58] Really, really fantastic. This was [01:13:00] a recent discovery of mine and it has made doing a lot of the stuff that I do a lot easier because the fact of the matter is like you can use compressor and you can use whatever Adobe thing is and whatnot for converting video files. But a lot of times that does not honestly work as well, especially if you’re dealing with what video, stuff like that.

[01:13:15] Those things are really optimized for a lot of pro workflows. And even a lot of those workflows, the dirty secret is they’re usually using FFmpeg somewhere under the hood. Um, but uh, for me, for the stuff that I want to do especially quickly, um, this has been really, really useful. And so I’m a really big fan.

[01:13:34] Brett: So that’s $23 and 24 cents in USD. I will also, I will also throw in a mention. Um, so there’s, uh, a developer that makes an app called Downey, which is basically, uh,

[01:13:49] Christina: DL

[01:13:50] Brett: Yep. It’s YouTube They also make an app called permute, which is basically, uh, uh, FF.

[01:13:57] Christina: It is, it is in permute is great. [01:14:00] Here’s my only issue with permute permute is slow. Um, and it is slow. And, and it, I think that if, if, uh, if Charlie Monroe, um, the developer, I think that if, if he were able to maybe use whatever FFmpeg he’s got under the bus, if he were to upgrade it, um, to be compiled with some different, um, uh, flags, it might be better.

[01:14:21] But this was actually what led me to finding a replacement to that. Cause I don’t, I don’t want to in any way, like the shit on the work of permanent, cause it’s a beautiful app and it works really well. And Downey is incredible. And is one of those apps that if you’re not a setup user, it’s worth the price to just buy it

[01:14:38] Brett: But if you are a set

[01:14:40] Christina: but if you are a set user, it’s included exactly in permute as well.

[01:14:43] But I was running into some problems where I was downloading. Okay. So what happens sometimes is that if you’re downloading things from YouTube, Oh, just give the elongated backstory. I was downloading something from YouTube. It was downloading in, um, web P and, or webcam or [01:15:00] whatever. The, the, um, you know, uh, whatever format, you know, um, uh, YouTube uses and I needed it in an MP4 and it was just going to take like forever to do it on my M one, um, in a.

[01:15:15] Then permute and I did it, but I was like looking, I was like, okay, this is, I’ve run into this a number of times now, and I need something faster. And, and so I was like, well, I could just feed this through and have aliases. Cause I do have some aliases for some FFmpeg commands. Like I have one that’ll create, um, an MP4 from an animated, um, Jeff, um, and some other things.

[01:15:35] You know, that’s just, I was like, I need to find a, there has to be an alternative. And that was when I found FF works. And I was like, I did a side by side and there’s just no comparison in terms of the, the speed. So permute is great and it’s beautiful, but this is a lot faster. It also has features like there’s a watch folder support.

[01:15:54] So if you have certain actions you wanted to automatically happen, you know, [01:16:00] by having something in a specific folder, you can set that up so it can be scripted. I think I, um, I, anyway, I, I discovered this like, like two or three weeks ago and I’m a really big fan. So if you’re looking for something that’s faster than permute and is not going to make you want to kill yourself, like the FFmpeg syntax, this is, this is for you.

[01:16:20] Brett: Alright. So what I really appreciated about Christina’s last episode of download for GitHub was she, she said in a GitHub sponsored YouTube video that she pronounces it Jif. So silent, silent raise of hands. No one will be outed here who says Jif

[01:16:41] Jeff: I say gift Jif.

[01:16:43] Brett: gift. Jeff. All right. Who says, get. Okay. All right. We have, we have a pretty even split here with Jeff playing both sides. We get a

[01:16:54] Jeff: I do. There’s, there’s the, there’s like a rabbinical story about a guys out in the field and he [01:17:00] doesn’t have his prayer book. It’s not a pray. And the rabbi says when that’s going to happen, just like the alphabet and God will order the words. So I do that with the gift JIP, you know, God knows, God knows what I’m referring to.

[01:17:15] Brett: I honestly, I will, I will no longer go to.

[01:17:18] the mat over this. I don’t give a shit what people say, but I personally, I personally am a Jif guy and it was very nice to hear Christina say that she also says Jif,

[01:17:30] Jeff: Reconfirming your,

[01:17:31] Brett: I will, I will not. I will not get into this fight on social media or elsewhere.

[01:17:36] Patrick: yeah, no, I, I agree with

[01:17:37] Brett: I don’t care.

[01:17:38] Patrick: I agree with you, you know, uh, I won’t even correct you anymore. I used to, but I won’t now,

[01:17:46] Brett: Oh, yeah, no, I absolutely. I know what you meant. I intention was there. I know what your intention

[01:17:52] Christina: Totally, you know, and I, and I even had people in the comments already who were like making, making things about it and they’re like, oh, I’ll do it with my giraffe fix. [01:18:00] And I was like, cool, I’ll drink it with my GYN. Like I, you know, I mean, like I like, like, like,

[01:18:07] Patrick: that’s

[01:18:08] Brett: Yup. Yup. That is exactly how

[01:18:11] Jeff: I also, I also do that with Ghillean. Well, should I say Gillian, Gillian Welch.

[01:18:15] Patrick: Uh,

[01:18:16] Christina: yeah. And you’re right. And I, and I, and I think it is Ghillean, isn’t it?

[01:18:20] Jeff: I think it is

[01:18:20] Patrick: Yes, it is

[01:18:21] Jeff: I think I finally figured that.

[01:18:22] Patrick: yes.

[01:18:23] Jeff: Yeah. Or, or if you’re a for Ghazi

[01:18:25] Brett: Jillian,

[01:18:26] Jeff: geeky or a guy.

[01:18:27] Brett: and she can deal with

[01:18:28] Jeff: Yeah, that’s fine. She’s never going to be on this podcast

[01:18:32] Christina: This is true.

[01:18:33] Jeff: I’d be happy to have her on. Um, all right. Should we wrap this up?

[01:18:38] Brett: Patrick. Thanks for being here.

[01:18:40] Jeff: Thank you,

[01:18:40] Patrick: Oh, no, it totally was my honor and pleasure. And uh, I mean, I, I can’t even believe I, I get to like, no, you people let alone be in the same podcast room with you. So yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m seriously blown

[01:18:57] Brett: I feel much the same way. I really appreciate [01:19:00] you being here.

[01:19:01] Patrick: no, I, I don’t mean to fanboy a bit here, but you know, Brett knows how I feel about him. Cause we’ve, we’ve known each other for, for quite some time. Um, and, uh, it’s a pleasure to meet you Jeffrey, but, uh, Christina Warren, I wasn’t joking. I was I’ve I’ve I really have been following your work for quite some time.

[01:19:18] And then you’re kind of a rock star, Irish to me. Uh, you know, um, I’m one of those people who thinks that like, you know, like, okay, you can have your foo fighters or whatever, you know, I, I’m a fan of tech journalist. Thank you very much. So like, you know, like, you know, you know, Leo LaPorte some God to me, you know, or like you guys like back kind of level of, of fanboy when it comes to tech journalists,

[01:19:45] Christina: Well, thank you so much. That makes me feel so that’s so great. That’s like, Aw, that’s so nice of you. And I feel so completely undeserving of that, but thank you so much. That’s it was, it was great talking with you. Um, and, and thank you for all the work that you’re doing, you know, um, and, and by their [01:20:00] advocacy and, and it’s so important.

[01:20:02] So keep that up

[01:20:04] Patrick: Thank you guys for what you’re doing. I

[01:20:06] Brett: We didn’t get a chance to talk about what Jeff is doing. Um, but I really feel like I need to connect you to, uh, outside of

[01:20:15] this podcast, because I think you would take a real interest in what Jeff has working on right now is.

[01:20:21] Christina: you would chew from with just what little, um, I, I heard from Patrick and the stuff that you work on. I think that a lot of just research project, you guys definitely need to connect after this pod.

[01:20:31] Patrick: You can can

[01:20:32] Brett: guys should get you guys live okay. Different cities, but

[01:20:36] Jeff: meet, we can meet in the river.

[01:20:38] Patrick: Well, I come over to his side of the river a lot. I mean, when you live in St. Paul, you kind of are forced to do that.

[01:20:44] Now I live in St. Paul Minneapolis. That’s

[01:20:45] Brett: you two together. Eventually.

[01:20:47] Jeff: All right. that.

[01:20:48] sounds good. right.

[01:20:51] Brett: Hey, everybody gets some sleep.

[01:20:53] Jeff: Get some steep

[01:20:54] Christina: some

[01:20:54] Patrick: God knows. I could use some.