Brett

[00:00:00] Christina: [00:00:00] You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren. He’s Brett Terpstra. Hey Brett, how are you?

[00:00:05] Brett: [00:00:05] I, so I’m like in the weeds building this, you know, bunch. My, my like automation app that I’ve been kind of obsessed with. I decided it can run shell scripts. So you should be able to see the output of shell scripts. And so I built this entire system that, uh, not only does it load like your full log-in shell environment, it also converts, uh, like ANSI color codes in your output.

[00:00:34] Two attributed strings that it can display in a nice Menlo presentation. Anyway, I that’s where my brain is right now. So I’ll come around. I’m ADHD. Uh, it’s common symptom is trouble switching tasks. I’ll get there.

[00:00:54] Christina: [00:00:54] you’ll get there. Um, no, but I mean, I think, I think the, I like this, [00:01:00] that, uh, this is where your brain is. And I would honestly, this got us talking about, about shell scripts, uh, or I guess about, Shell’s not shell scripts with shells in general, because you put fish on our list and that was going to be like a later topic.

[00:01:16] But I just want to talk about it now because I really like talking about like shell

[00:01:20] Brett: [00:01:20] jump into tech, just we’ll lose. You lose that portion of our audience right off the bat that

[00:01:26] Christina: [00:01:26] Okay. You’re right. You’re okay. Okay. You’re right. We know. Okay. Well, I was going to say, should we do like the health corner first, but I felt like this was sort of associated with the health corner. Cause like, this is what your mind was on.

[00:01:39] Brett: [00:01:39] Um, You know, let’s I let’s break tradition. Um,

[00:01:44] Christina: [00:01:44] are you sure? Cause we can just go to the health Corps and then come back to fish.

[00:01:47] Brett: [00:01:47] I’m not sure I’m finding, it’s making me uncomfortable, but in my life I’ve I generally go with things that make me uncomfortable because it

[00:01:53] Christina: [00:01:53] no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. Let’s start with the health corner. Let’s talk about, let’s talk about, let’s talk about the health corner. So

[00:01:59] Brett: [00:01:59] mental [00:02:00] health, I want to, I want to read this line from discord, uh, in regards to last week show.

[00:02:07] Uh, SMA said, um, today’s episode is great. Putting scheduling slash sponsors ahead of sleep is entirely on brand.

[00:02:19] Christina: [00:02:19] Estimate nailed it. Totally. 100% on brand.

[00:02:25] Brett: [00:02:25] you know what I realized this morning? So I didn’t realize I have Tourette, but I realized that so my Tourette shows up in muscle twitches. Um, like I’ll, I’ll get a feeling that I absolutely need to tighten or, or flex a muscle at and like all over my body. But. Primarily in my legs. And I realized while I’m doing tree and yoga this morning, that the, the one thing that always, uh, knocked me over in balance poses is my Tourette’s.

[00:02:58] Like, it never clicked for me [00:03:00] before, but I realized that like I had to twist to be able to flex a muscle in my calf. And that it’s that slight twisting just to Twitch a muscle that ruins my balance poses. It’s it’s a little funny. Yeah. Uh, did you ever see that, uh, uh, when Billy Eilish, she also has threats that manifest much the same way, um, that she, during interviews, she, uh, she’ll wait until the interviewer is asking a question because she assumes the camera will then be on them and she lets out she’ll like, hold in her muscle twitches and then let them out when the camera switches away.

[00:03:43] Uh, but she told that she tells a story about how one time the camera didn’t switch away. So in the middle of like a televised interview, she just went off with her face. It was, yeah. Did you watch the Billie Eilish documentary yet

[00:03:58] Christina: [00:03:58] I haven’t seen it yet. No. [00:04:00] Um,

[00:04:00] Brett: [00:04:00] I want to.

[00:04:01] Christina: [00:04:01] I do as well, because I really, really like her. And I, uh, I ha I have watched, I guess, for like the last four years or however long they’ve been doing it, where she answers the same questions with vanity fair, you know? Um, but, but each year it’s, it’s changed. They got really lucky there because obviously she like broke out big with, with ocean eyes or whatever when they first like, had her for that thing.

[00:04:24] But I mean, that was kind of one of those, you know, Maybe not one in a million, but probably one in 500,000 sort of things where the purse where somebody they already had kind of a relationship with would wind up breaking out the way that she did.

[00:04:40] Brett: [00:04:40] Yeah. Yeah. She deserves it though. I really

[00:04:43] Christina: [00:04:43] He does. I really like her too. I like her brother. I liked them a lot. And,

[00:04:48] Brett: [00:04:48] name? He has a funny name, Denise? Yeah. I mean, not like funny name, but it’s an odd name.

[00:04:56] Christina: [00:04:56] It’s it’s an well, yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s an uncommon [00:05:00] name for sure. Yeah.

[00:05:01] Brett: [00:05:01] uncommon. So we are we’re recording. His episode is actually going to go up a little late because we’re recording a day late and then hours on top of that, because both of us had psych psychiatry appointments and I, so I ended up canceling. Uh, a second podcast recording yesterday. Like the first one was a scheduling conflict.

[00:05:29] The second one, I found that after my psychiatry appointment, which went great, I was super anxious. Like something about going to see the psychiatrist gets me very, um, riled up. And then I feel like I can’t, I don’t know what it is. I think it’s a tip a general, like, I get the same with going to the doctor.

[00:05:53] It’s just like a, a white coat syndrome kind of thing.

[00:05:56] Christina: [00:05:56] Oh, I can see that. Okay.

[00:05:58] Brett: [00:05:58] But yours was just this morning and you’re [00:06:00] clearly, uh, you’re clearly holding it together better than I,

[00:06:04] Christina: [00:06:04] Well, I think the difference too, I’ve been with this shrink, uh, except for like my dark period when I ghosted him for so long that. I don’t have, I don’t know. I mean, you know, it, it, it’s close to 20 years at this point, so it’s been such a long standing relationship that I don’t have, I guess maybe some of the anxiety that you might have from a normal doctor appointment sort of thing.

[00:06:33] I don’t know.

[00:06:34] Brett: [00:06:34] What? Yeah, no, there was the psychiatrist that I saw for, like, it must’ve been. Eight to 10 years, uh, before he retired, I was comfortable with, I never got freaked out, going to see him. Uh, it was after that when like the next doctor cut my meds and, uh, left me with this like, fear of going

[00:06:56] Christina: [00:06:56] right. I was going to say now,

[00:06:58] Brett: [00:06:58] what’ll happen.

[00:06:59] Christina: [00:06:59] I was going to say, [00:07:00] now you have like a very real fear response. Right? And so you go into it kind of with this, you know, like almost PTSD sort of thing. And then you have, you know what I mean? And then it’s like, okay, we, you get out of it and you feel like the sense of relief, but you’ve had this anxiety and this.

[00:07:16] This pent up, like uncertainty going into it. Like, I can totally see that, like I’m, I’m my shrink is going to my psychiatrist. He’s going to retire at some point he’s 75. It’s going to be sooner than later, and I’m going to need to find someone and I’m not looking forward to that. I don’t even know how I’m going to handle that because, you know, uh,

[00:07:36] Brett: [00:07:36] Yeah,

[00:07:37] Christina: [00:07:37] you know, like,

[00:07:38] Brett: [00:07:38] know the feeling.

[00:07:39] Christina: [00:07:39] No.

[00:07:39] I mean, and it’s one of those things that like, okay, that actually makes me anxious. Right? Like thinking about things that like make me anxious, that makes me anxious thinking about finding a new person, because it is such a, as we’ve discussed on this show for years, like it is one of those things that will make or break.

[00:07:54] I think anybody’s mental health treatment plan is what, um, doctor you have [00:08:00] and or what counselor you’re talking to because I’ve had bad ones. And I’ve had good ones and I’ve been lucky that I’ve had two good ones and I’ve had a whole bunch of bad ones and many of them are not good. Right. It’s just one of those things where, especially with the state of, of medicine being what it is and, and how insurance things work, it’s not easy to find somebody good.

[00:08:24] And, and it’s, what’s stressful to me about this, which is going to be different whenever I have to do this again, different about when I did last time is I’ve never done this as an adult. I had the, in many ways, I’m not saying it was in any way positive, cause it certainly wasn’t. But going through a lot of this stuff as a kid, as a teenager, the one upside was that, you know, you do have a sense of like time to experiment because, okay, I missed a bunch of school and I had other things and like that’s bad, but it’s not as if [00:09:00] you can’t take those days or take that time to find it.

[00:09:03] Whereas as an adult, it’s like, I need to find someone who will get me my meds, and then maybe I can try to figure out like the, the better. Alignment of who the right person is. Um, and I guess I had to do that as a kid, too. There were people that I saw, like I called a guy in my phone, like Dr. Kevorkian. Um, although, you know, that wasn’t like an accurate thing.

[00:09:24] He was just, he was useless. Uh, he was just basically a grant, saw a guy who he called Dr. Worksheet. And that’s basically what this guy was. He would just write me my meds and. So it’s like, okay, you can find like a stop gap for that. But if you want to find a real person like that takes time and effort and energy, and that can be very much the equivalent of a full-time job in and of itself, just to try to find the right doctors.

[00:09:49] Brett: [00:09:49] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, at least you have options where I live. I have the hospital. Like the mental health division of the [00:10:00] hospital, which has not had an actual psychiatrist. Uh it’s all, all, uh, Pete PAs. Is that the word I’m looking for?

[00:10:09] Christina: [00:10:09] Yeah, physician’s assistance.

[00:10:11] Brett: [00:10:11] like they haven’t had a full-on doctor for probably five years now. They can’t hold on to anybody.

[00:10:18] Um, In fact, not, probably not since my doctor retired, who I was seeing through there, but then we have a mental health clinic that has two psychiatrists, which are, um, I w I at best, there they are. Okay. That’s where I’m going now. And my doctor is okay. Uh, I would say I never feel really terribly listened to, um, Or beyond that you have to go out of town.

[00:10:47] Like I there’s really no shopping around to do, which sucks. The nearest, the nearest, if I have to go out of town, it’s at least a half hour drive to the [00:11:00] next option. I don’t want to do that. I don’t like driving that much.

[00:11:07] Christina: [00:11:07] I fancy that, although half an hour, I don’t know. This is just me growing up places where, and living places where traffic is terrible. I’m like a half an hour is whatever. Like I did actually live very close to my psychiatrist for a number of years. Although when I started seeing him, I don’t believe I lived that close to him.

[00:11:25] And so he was literally almost across the street. And so it was when he, I could like walk to his office, but, uh, you know, many of my other doctors. Growing up anyway, it was different when I was in college. And then after, because I lived in, in the city, but it was not uncommon to have to, you know, drive into, you know, Atlanta proper to go to like the specialist that I would go to.

[00:11:49] Brett: [00:11:49] I can’t do traffic anymore. I’m so used to like in, in, in Wynnona, uh, it takes 10 minutes to get anywhere and rush hour means it takes like 12 minutes. [00:12:00] It’s, it’s ridiculously small and there’s ridiculously few cars on the road. And I that’s one of my top three things about why I want to live in a small town.

[00:12:13] Christina: [00:12:13] No, that makes sense. I mean, I definitely, I don’t like cars. I don’t like driving, but, uh, I don’t really have like a choice in terms of, you know, I need to take Uber or whatever I can walk and I guess, you know, public transit will be. Or I’ll feel more comfortable at public transit once I’ve had a vaccine, uh, which who knows when that’s going to be what’s the, what’s the rollout or what’s kind of the update process.

[00:12:35] How are things going in Minnesota with the vaccine rollout?

[00:12:37] Brett: [00:12:37] um, they’re still mostly doing old people in frontline workers, but I signed up for their, uh, the government has a vaccine tracker. They call it it’ll basically keep you informed as, as, uh, stuff becomes available and you can enter like comorbidities and stuff that you have. Uh, and as, as, as the vaccine becomes available for [00:13:00] people in your group of vulnerable vulnerability, uh, they’ll send you a text message.

[00:13:06] And so now I sit and wait, L is fully vaccinated.

[00:13:10] Christina: [00:13:10] That’s awesome. That’s that’s so good. So she, she got the Pfizer one, right?

[00:13:15] Brett: [00:13:15] I think it was Madrona.

[00:13:16] Christina: [00:13:16] Madrona. Okay. Yeah. That’s the one that my parents got. So did like her arm hurt after the second dose? Yeah. Okay.

[00:13:22] Brett: [00:13:22] days. Um, you want to, she, she got her new job. Do you wanna hear about her new job?

[00:13:28] Christina: [00:13:28] I totally want to hear about her new job.

[00:13:30] Brett: [00:13:30] know how she’s into knitting? Maybe you don’t know, but she’s

[00:13:33] Christina: [00:13:33] Well, I remember you telling me that she’s into that.

[00:13:35] Brett: [00:13:35] when she was sick and dealing with Lyme, uh, she got into knitting and it became like, I would say a passion. She, she, she’s very passionate about knitting and she makes amazing stuff like.

[00:13:47] I’ve known people who have knitted for, you know, most of their lives and are not creating stuff as cool as I think, but also I love her to death, so maybe I’m biased. But anyway, she, uh, there, there [00:14:00] a job opened up at a local, uh, yarn store called yarn analogy. And so she, she applied and, uh, went through the process.

[00:14:11] Uh, it w once they kind of got down to brass tacks, it didn’t sound like they would be able to pay her enough, but they, they texted her the next day or emailed her and said, Hey, we crunched some numbers. We can match what you’re making now. And I got to tell you she’s been there about a week and she is so happy.

[00:14:31] Like she comes home laughing every day. And at her previous job, working with, uh, loud non-verbal people and, uh, direct care stuff. She came home tired and stressed and, uh, smelling like Febreeze, which with her chemical sensitivity required like an immediate shower after getting home. Things are so different.

[00:14:53] It’s like night and day. She’s so much happier. Now,

[00:14:56] Christina: [00:14:56] Yay. I’m so happy to hear this. Yay for [00:15:00] neurology and yay for El. Like this is great.

[00:15:02] Brett: [00:15:02] speaking of new jobs, I applied for one,

[00:15:05] Christina: [00:15:05] Okay.

[00:15:06] Brett: [00:15:06] um, Oracle has started a developer relations team.

[00:15:13] Christina: [00:15:13] Uh huh.

[00:15:14] Brett: [00:15:14] they’re, uh, they’re I talked to the, the head of it and they’re basically fighting against like Oracle’s 40 years of, um, yeah. Uh, the old guard and they’re working to try to build something that can make Oracle relevant for another 40 years.

[00:15:33] And they’re looking for, uh, content writers, uh, content editors. And developer advocates and kind of the job positions they have are kind of a mix of all, all of those things. And, uh, uh, Victor from two are actually. Hooked me up with, uh, the guy at Oracle. Uh, we had a good chat and he, he spent a few days [00:16:00] reading my entire blog apparently and said that he, he thought I’d be a great addition to the team.

[00:16:05] And so I sent her an application and I, I dunno, man, I don’t know if I want a day job, but also. It sounds like a fun job doing interesting things. And I bet it would pay better than being an independent developer right now.

[00:16:23] Christina: [00:16:23] It would definitely pay better and you would get better benefits, which would be good for some of your other stuff. Uh, also as somebody who is a developer advocate, like it’s a fun job. I mean, it’s a lot of what the stuff that you’ve been doing naturally for years, honestly, like your blog is a great resume for, um, you know, um, developer relations because all the side projects and stuff you build, right?

[00:16:45] Like,

[00:16:46] Brett: [00:16:46] and I I’ve become over like 10 years of writing my blog and writing for like Mac stories and Macworld, um, and to, uh, Like I’ve, I’ve learned to very, uh, very easily [00:17:00] predict what people aren’t going to understand, what people are going to be offended by what people are going to have questions about.

[00:17:08] And I can write in such a way that I can explain things, um, uh, proactively to, to make I can break very clearly, but I can write in, uh, an informal tone. That still conveys information very clearly. And that’s not like that’s a learned skill and I’ve been in the weeds on that.

[00:17:31] Christina: [00:17:31] It’s a learned skill, but it’s also one I’m going to argue. I think that there’s part of it. That is an innate thing. Like being able to being a good explainer, like you can definitely learn it and you can become better at it, but there are. People who are more predisposed to do it than others. And, and I think the people who are more predisposed tend to be the people who find a way to do it naturally.

[00:17:49] Like, you know, even going back to your, your, your two off in download squad, blogging days, like when you and I met, like that had an element of that to it. Right. But everything you’ve done for your personal blog and for the other places [00:18:00] you’ve written definitely has like, you nail that tone. I mean, I would say the same for myself.

[00:18:05] You’re, you’re better than I am in terms of. You know, like your, your technical ability, but I feel like I’m very good at breaking down complicated things. And I know an understanding, like you said, what people are going to need context about and what people are gonna need information about. And that is a, it is a learned thing, but it is also one of those things.

[00:18:25] I think that there are people who are good at it naturally are drawn to those things like that was me doing journalism. And I think this is why it was an easy transition for me into developer relations. Because we talked about this on systematic, because a lot of it is like, just kind of knowing your audience and knowing how to explain something.

[00:18:44] Um, like in, in my interview with Microsoft, my, what I white boarded was, how did, how would you break down a complicated story? And I, I broke down because it didn’t, it just happened. I had written a very complicated story about, uh, [00:19:00] the then, um, Oh, I guess he still is. He’s in jail now. He was recently sent back or whatever, but the, uh, de facto head of Samsung was involved in this scandal with the then prime minister of South Korea.

[00:19:15] And there’s all this shiny ball stuff. And it was very complicated and it was one of those things where, um, I knew the story was interesting and I pitched it to my editors and was originally they kind of dismissed it. And then they came back a couple, like a month or so later. And they’re like, Oh no, we want this story written now.

[00:19:33] And I was like, well, mother fucker, God, you know, cause it was really complicated and it was one of those things where we had to explain. I had to explain the shy ball system. I had to explain the, uh, different, uh, w which is unique to South Korea and how their corporations work. I had to explain the infighting happening within the Lee family, in which control Samsung had to explain the different bribery and other, um, you know, like, um, uh, you know, like, [00:20:00] uh, corruption scandals happening within the government.

[00:20:03] You know, there were like all these moving parts and. Had to kind of weave it into a way that people who weren’t deeply in the weeds could do it. And some of it too was because as I’d kind of gone down the rabbit hole, that’s why I’d want to try the story to begin with. Like I had to learn about that stuff myself, which is also a thing that is frequently, at least for me.

[00:20:21] And I think for you too, like we, we have a problem we need to solve from a development standpoint. You go down the rabbit hole, you’re figuring out what you’re doing, and then you have to kind of figure out a way, okay. How do I now explain this to other people so they can see the value in what you’re doing?

[00:20:37] So,

[00:20:38] Brett: [00:20:38] do you think ADHD helps you at all? Yeah, me too. I feel like part of like, part of the reason that I write clearly and succinctly is because I’m always thinking about what I be able to read through this. And I don’t have a high capacity for long articles. Like anything that re anything that’s more than like three pages of a desktop display, [00:21:00] text I’m out.

[00:21:01] Like I’ll never make it to the end. Um,

[00:21:03] Christina: [00:21:03] no problem with long articles, but yeah, I feel like. My ADHD helps me with that. Um, maybe being succinct or being understandable. I don’t know. I think part for me, I always use not so much now because she’s not like the perfect muse for this, but for the stuff that I did at Mashable and Gizmodo and when I would go on CNN and other places and whatever, and I would need to explain like a really complicated.

[00:21:29] Technical topic too. It means you’re mining is that always like use my mom as kind of my guide. I was like, okay. How, how would you explain this to your mom? How would you, how would I explain this? Cause she’s smart, but she’s not an expert in it.

[00:21:41] Brett: [00:21:41] I use El now because she has an amazing capacity for learning things that are well outside of her wheelhouse, but they need to be like a lot of times if I’m explaining something tech, there’s this whole backstory that she

[00:21:55] Christina: [00:21:55] She needs the context.

[00:21:57] Brett: [00:21:57] And like, I that’s, one of the skills I’ve [00:22:00] developed over time is to kind of backup and say, what do you need?

[00:22:03] To understand this. What, what groundwork do you need first?

[00:22:07] Christina: [00:22:07] Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Um, and I think, um, Ella, my mom would get along really well. Like they, they have similar like hearts, like Intel, which are very good ones. And, um, like, like L my mom has a huge capacity for learning things outside of her wheelhouse, but. Which is odd. I always buy, like, it was never a derogatory thing.

[00:22:27] I think people they go, you’re using your mom as your thing. And like, no, my mom is awesome. Like, but my mom is not a technical, um, person in the traditional sense, but she’s smart and she can understand things. So I just need to use, okay. Like, how, how would I, how would I talk to her about this? And, and I think that, you know, and I have a different person kind of in mind, uh, it’s not usually a single person.

[00:22:49] It’s, it’s kind of a group of people when I’m talking or writing about developer focus stuff, especially if it’s more of like beginner content or people who aren’t familiar, as you said, with the [00:23:00] context and, um, and knowing what that line is. Is something that I think you only learn from experience, which you have from the years you’ve been doing that.

[00:23:09] And I think that’s one of those things that is really important in developer relations, because you do have people who come from all across the gamut, you have people who are really experienced in a certain area. You also have newcomers. You have people who just dabble in and out and are just trying to get the documentation and figure out how to do it.

[00:23:25] And don’t really care for the preamble. They just want to know the brass tacks, do people who are, you know, students or career switchers who are learning. If people who. Do you actually care about the depth? You know, like there are those different people and you just need to know that line about like where you go.

[00:23:40] And I feel like your blog does a really good job being conversational and authentic and, um, understandable. And, and I think the most important thing is it feels approachable. Like even if like I read your blog and I’ve been reading your blog, you know, for as long as we’ve been friends and. What I’ve always loved about your writing is that there’s some stuff that [00:24:00] even if I am like, okay, I couldn’t write and do this stuff with bunch that you’re doing.

[00:24:05] Like, I wouldn’t be able to do that code myself, but reading about what you’re doing with it. And listening to you talk about it and talking with you about it week to week, I can understand it and it feels approachable. So it’s like, okay, this isn’t something that I would do myself, but it doesn’t feel like so out of the realm of my comprehension, right.

[00:24:23] Which, which is important.

[00:24:25] Brett: [00:24:25] Are you ready for an amazing segue first? Thank you. That’s very kind of, you. But also, are you ready for an amazing segue?

[00:24:32] Christina: [00:24:32] I’m totally ready for him. And he seems segue.

[00:24:35] Brett: [00:24:35] Speaking of short things that are well explained and, and are interesting. Oh, I feel like I had it better in my head, but anyway, wouldn’t it be great if there was a pocket size guide that could help you sleep, focus or act better?

[00:24:51] There is. And if you have 10 minutes, Headspace can change your life. I’m doing okay. Right?

[00:24:58] Christina: [00:24:58] That’s fantastic.

[00:25:00] [00:25:00] Brett: [00:25:00] Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy to use app. Headspace is one of the only apps advancing the field of mindfulness and meditation through clinically validated research Headspace meditation start at just one minute, each speaking of short things, uh, they even have a set of walking meditation, so they’re easy to fit into the busiest schedules.

[00:25:24] Headspace is proven to help you feel better. Their approach to mindfulness can reduce stress, improve, sleep boost, focus, and increase your overall sense of wellbeing. Whatever the situation Headspace really can help you feel better. If you need some help falling asleep. Headspace has wind down sessions.

[00:25:41] Their members swear by. I do I concur with this ad read the wind down sessions are great when I’m not in a, when I’m not in a place where I can listen to an audio book. Or like, I won’t absorb it. These wind down meditations are awesome. [00:26:00] Um, and on the other side of sleep, you’ll find the, uh, the wake up, which is daily original content intended to inspire your day from the moment you wake up.

[00:26:09] And if you’re feeling overwhelmed, Headspace even has three minute SOS meditations that you can do anytime you need it. I did air quotes for SOS. Nobody could see that, but I feel like it came through

[00:26:22] Christina: [00:26:22] I think so. I think it did.

[00:26:24] Brett: [00:26:24] So I used to think that my mind was too busy to meditate. I thought that someone with ADHD and crazy manic episodes couldn’t be still enough to do it.

[00:26:33] It turned out that I was exactly the kind of person who could benefit from meditation. And Headspace really helped me find my groove. I had, I had the great courses, a mindful meditation, like given to me, gifted to me. And it was like, 80 hours long. There’s no way, no way, but 10 minute meditations that can kind of ease you into it.

[00:26:59] Super [00:27:00] easy. Um, Headspace is backed by 25 published studies on its benefits. 600,500 views. And over 60 million downloads. Headspace makes it easy for you to build a life changing meditation practice with mindfulness that works for you on your schedule anytime, anywhere. So our listeners deserve to feel happier and Headspace is meditation made simple, simple, go to headspace.com/overtired.

[00:27:28] That’s headspace.com/overtired for a free one month trial with access to headspaces full library of meditations for every situation. This is the best deal that’s out there right now. So head to headspace.com/overtired today.

[00:27:45] Christina: [00:27:45] Thank you Headspace.

[00:27:46] Brett: [00:27:46] Thanks Headspace. Um, I’m a fan, I’m a fan. So I added a bunch of like news articles that were there’s a lot of privacy stuff going on right now.

[00:27:57] Christina: [00:27:57] Yeah, no, I saw that. Um, before we [00:28:00] get into that, let’s go back to fish shell. Before we talk about that. Yeah. Let’s let’s go back to fish. Saul.

[00:28:04] Brett: [00:28:04] now. I feel comfortable with this now. Um, so I was just evangelizing for fish in, uh, in, uh, um, uh, Slack that I got invited into this Slack team that, uh, like I thought it was going to be a bunch of, uh, well, I, I, I don’t know what I thought it was gonna be, but I get in there and.

[00:28:29] All the greats are in there. We’ve got rich Teagle Daniel gel cut Florian Albrecht, like, uh, it’s a who’s who of independent developers.

[00:28:41] Christina: [00:28:41] Hell. Yeah.

[00:28:42] Brett: [00:28:42] and you can ask a question. You can ask a stupid question to which they will reply. Obviously there are no stupid questions and you will get help. It’s amazing. I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t talk about this.

[00:28:53] Like everyone’s invited, I don’t, I don’t know what the, uh, I don’t know how open it is, but I got in and [00:29:00] I’m super it’s amazing. But anyway, I, I was, uh, I was asking questions about this, uh, in S task controller I’m working on and we got into a discussion of shells and I found myself evangelists for fish.

[00:29:13] I know it has, it has its quirks. It’s a little bit slow. But the, uh, the, the completion and the type of head stuff, and it remembers, uh, command history per directory. So it will remember what the last command you ran in this directory was, and I love it. I couldn’t be happier. I’ve used it for a year now. I, I, I opened up basher Z shell and it feels old and boring, and I love fish.

[00:29:46] Christina: [00:29:46] Yeah. I like it. My only issue with it is that the thing about Zetia, especially if you use like or something, is that you can, you either, you can’t get everything that you can get with fish, but you can get some stuff that’s, that’s closer. Although to your point, it will make [00:30:00] things slower. Right. Because you can have this like massive, like, um, you know, um, um, um, XOs like profile, like that’s just massive.

[00:30:08] Uh, but. My only thing with fish. Cause I like fish and it makes sense. And like it’s a good shell. And like, it, it, I think that it was former Apple people who created it. If I recall correctly, I’m I could be wrong. I could be wrong on that. Uh, that feels right. But there’s some sort of Apple connection, but I’m not sure, but the only thing is is that.

[00:30:27] The nice thing about shell is that it is backwards compatible with bash. And there are certain times where I will not either remember like a command in visual need to look it up or more to the point, like you need to run something. And if it hasn’t been explicitly like said that it’s like bash, you know, then if you’re running it in, in, in fish, like it’s going to give you issues.

[00:30:49] That’s that’s, that’s my only thing.

[00:30:51] Brett: [00:30:51] So all of my, all of my favorite bash scripts and I was at bash stalwart for a decade, um, I have a very, uh, a [00:31:00] very customized, very powerful bash setup and all of my bash scripts. Uh, you just put a bash hash bang in them

[00:31:08] Christina: [00:31:08] Right. No, I understand. No, I understand that. My point is that there are some times you’ll run across things like, especially I’m thinking, like, if you’re doing things from like remote machines or whatever, Where, um, you know, you, you have a script that you’ve, you’ve downloaded from someplace that like you’ll have to go back and edit and add that, or you’ll have to switch your shell environment.

[00:31:28] Brett: [00:31:28] Yeah, I do find myself running bash L for like a log-in shell pretty often, but, um, mostly because I need to figure out why something used to work for me and no, it does,

[00:31:41] Christina: [00:31:41] Right,

[00:31:41] Brett: [00:31:41] yeah, there are like, the scripting is like a very different syntax. It takes a lot of getting used to even just the idea of like exporting, uh, an environment.

[00:31:52] Variable is different in fish. It takes some work.

[00:31:55] Christina: [00:31:55] No totally. I mean, and then the thing for me, I think the reason why I haven’t ever committed to it, although I [00:32:00] really like it is because a lot of the stuff that I do is on virtual machines and is on like, you know, uh, or, or in containers or in other platforms like the cloud where I’m not necessarily going to install fish to get up and running.

[00:32:14] So if I’m like doing something remote, then I have the environment that I have. Right. Like I probably have bash, like I might have Zetia shell, but I probably have bash. And so. I, it, it, I haven’t been able to kind of work it into my like personal kind of muscle memory of, of stuff.

[00:32:31] Brett: [00:32:31] can be like, if you, if you’re a daily user of basher Z shell, you’ve got a pile of aliases and scripts and, uh, modules, especially with Z shell that you’re just used to having and, and assets aging into anyone else’s environment. Even if it’s the same shell can still feel,

[00:32:52] Christina: [00:32:52] No, of course, except I have like my dot files and like get hub repo. And like, there are ways [00:33:00] with certain environment things where I can like set it to use my dot Biles, like, so. That that’s my point. Like you’re not wrong. You’re completely correct. That it still is one of those things. But I guess the difference is that I found workarounds for that.

[00:33:11] Whereas I haven’t for fish, which is why I personally haven’t been able to get with it, although I’ve tried. Cause I it’s, it’s kind of like, I think of it like divorce tech. It’s one of those things where it makes sense, like this is what everybody should be using, but I’m just like, I’m going to be using query because that’s what everyone uses, even though it was not the best

[00:33:32] Brett: [00:33:32] that is an app comparison. Like I know in my heart. That there are better, uh, better keyboard layouts than Cordy. And, uh, I’m just, I’m used to what I’m used to and learning something that will only work on my machine and not anywhere else. I go. It’s a good comparison. Nicely done.

[00:33:52] Christina: [00:33:52] Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that just came to me. I was like, what’s, what’s the analogy. I was like, Oh yeah, this is the divorce book of, of shells.

[00:33:57] Brett: [00:33:57] Fucking brilliant. [00:34:00] All right. Did we talk enough about fish? I got, so it has this, uh, coloring when, when the, when you type a command that exists and is a valid command. It turns green, uh, uh, arguments. Get one color redirections, get a color quoted strings, get another, uh, con substituted commands. Get a different color.

[00:34:21] So as you type your string is colored also, it’s giving you type ahead completion and it can automatically, there’s a module for Zetia that can do this too, but it can automatically parse, um, all the command line flags and options and with things like brew and get it purses, all the sub commands. So it gives you full.

[00:34:44] Uh, full command completion for just about every command on your system. It knows every flag in every option for every command.

[00:34:53] Christina: [00:34:53] Yeah, no, I really like that. And like, yeah, like you said, you can get extensions for seashell to do that. The problem with both of them, uh, is, [00:35:00] does slow things down initially, but it’s so useful like that. I think that for a lot of people it’s worth it, but it can definitely slow things down because I’ve made that mistake actually.

[00:35:10] Both with fish and it was the shell, uh, because I’ve like gone too far into configuring them and then like had this insane profile. I’m like, Oh, okay. Yeah, no, my terminal is very slow now. And this is a very fast machine, so I need to par this down. Right? Like that’s, that’s always, um, actually I should do a video about that.

[00:35:30] I should do a video for people to like tame their, their shell environment because. I have a feeling. There are a lot of people who, you know, they build up. Yeah. They’re like, God, this is so useful. And they’re like, Oh, why is this taking so long? I’m actually, it’s fun up while we’re talking. Speaking of ADHD, I’ve been going through that.

[00:35:46] I’ve been like going through my, my, um, Zetia, like profile, trying to kind of call stuff. Um, because what, what I’ll wind up doing and, and you maybe you’re wrong. Maybe you’re different than this, but like I’ll wind [00:36:00] up even sometimes like having like different. I profiles that I use with different apps. So I have like a different, you know, one that I’m using with, um, with I term two versus, you know, terminal or whatever, because one will get, yeah, I, I’ve only done that a couple of times as I’ve been trying to like play around, usually I try to keep it consistent, but the reason I did that one time was I was like, I really needed like a burgeoning system with like my profile to kind of go through stuff and I, I didn’t have time and it was so slow.

[00:36:28] It was like, okay, I just need to kind of start over. And I, I, I just like, you know, made a new, a new profile for, um, for item two, because it was like, that was easier than, um, blowing everything away, uh, for the time constraints that I had.

[00:36:43] Brett: [00:36:43] when I see D into a directory, there is always a pause because I run a bunch of, in addition to like regular, like fish has a bit of a lag there anyway. Um, I don’t know what it’s parsing when you see the [00:37:00] end of a directory, but I also run directory hooks. Like, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen my Anais project, but I keep a task paper file.

[00:37:09] And just about every code repository that I have. And it it’s where I put ideas and bugs and to dues and N a. Is a command line tool. I wrote, it’s actually a bash script that when I CD into a folder, it checks the task paper file and pops up like what the next actions and highest priority items are before it displays the directory, the prompt.

[00:37:36] And like I’m willing to wait for that because I have found it extremely useful. And like RVM, like I have different Ruby versions that run depending on which folder I’m in, I’m in. So that, like, that takes time. I’ve just become very patient. I guess. It’s weird when I use like a RA like Z shell command line and things just happen like instantly.

[00:37:59] Christina: [00:37:59] No. I know I’m the [00:38:00] same way. Like when I, like, when I get a new machine, like, you know, I set up a new environment, like that’s always like the best slash the worst part because it’s so fast. And then I’m like, Oh, I don’t have any of my aliases. I don’t have any of my, you know, like none of my stuff is working the way that I wanted to work.

[00:38:13] So the first thing I have to do is, you know, clone my dot file.

[00:38:17] Brett: [00:38:17] you know, what is working for me?

[00:38:19] Christina: [00:38:19] What’s that?

[00:38:20] Brett: [00:38:20] My shower.

[00:38:22] Christina: [00:38:22] Yeah, mine too. Actually. That’s a great segue. So.

[00:38:26] Brett: [00:38:26] It was horrible segue.

[00:38:28] Christina: [00:38:28] okay. It was horrible, but it also is app. So it’s fine. So, uh, our, um, uh, this episode is brought to you by a Nebia, and we’re super excited to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, who is Nebia, and they are the creators of the Nebia by Mowen spa shower.

[00:38:45] And it’s backed by some of the biggest companies in Silicon Valley, or, uh, sorry, let me start this roll. Read over again. No, I it’s. Okay. So it’s a bad segue, but I mean, we’ll, we’ll make it work. It’s, [00:39:00] it’s kind of perfect in the same way. And this episode is brought to you by Nebia and, uh, we’re excited because Nebia is one of our favorite sponsors and they are the creators of the Nebia by Mohen spa shower. And it’s backed by some of the.

[00:39:12] Biggest names in Silicon Valley, including Tim cook. And it’s designed by former Tesla and NASA and Apple engineers who spent years researching and developing a superior shower experience that saves water and is anything but ordinary. And so the Nebia by Moe and spa shower is Nebby is most advanced shower yet.

[00:39:33] And it has twice the coverage and half the water usage of a standard shower head. Um, and so. The cool thing here is that despite using 45% less water, it spray is 81% more powerful than the competition. And it’s atomized droplets, rinse, shampoo, and conditioner out of even the thickest of hair. I don’t have super thick hair, but I have a ton of hair and my hair is incredibly long right now.

[00:39:58] Like it needs to be cut really [00:40:00] badly. And I can attest to the fact that, uh, you know, even though it’s using less water, it, the. Water pressure is great. And it definitely rinses everything out the way that you would want with easy self installation, Nebia by Mowen can be installed in 15 minutes or less without the need for contractors or plumbers or broken tile.

[00:40:19] So like, if you can change a light bulb, you can install Nebia by Mowen. And I can attest to that because I am somebody who can change the light bulb, but would not be able to, you know, like change a tire. And so this. Worked out great for me. Um, it was very, very good installation experience.

[00:40:38] Brett: [00:40:38] I got to say, I never used to be a long, hot shower person.

[00:40:42] Christina: [00:40:42] Now you are.

[00:40:42] Brett: [00:40:42] now, now I find myself either thinking like, I, I get good ideas when I stay in the shower long enough, it takes a while. Uh, and using half the water helps, you know, like I’m less worried about ecology or [00:41:00] money, but yeah. Now I either I’m thinking, or I’m just reveling in those atomized droplets.

[00:41:05] I am really liking the Nebia by Mowen.

[00:41:08] Christina: [00:41:08] Yeah, no, I I’m somebody who I’ve always liked showers, but I really love the experience and it’s great. And the Novi by Mowen squash hour starts at just $199. And for overtired listeners. We have a great deal for you. The first 100 people to use the code overtired@nebia.com. We’ll get 15% off all Nebia products.

[00:41:31] So it’s rare that Nebia offers deals like this. And so don’t wait to go to nebia.com/overtired that’s N E B I a.com/. Overtired to check out what they have to offer. And again, the first a hundred people who use the code over tired when checking out we’ll save 15% on all Nebia products. So again, that’s nebia.com/overtired and use that code overtired to save 15%.

[00:41:59] Brett: [00:41:59] Great job, [00:42:00] Christina. That was a, that was a, that was a hell of a read.

[00:42:04] Christina: [00:42:04] Thank you. Thank you.

[00:42:06] Brett: [00:42:06] So I w we could talk about how brave bought a search engine, we could talk about color. He yanked tablets. What do you feel like.

[00:42:17] Christina: [00:42:17] Let’s talk about brave a little bit. I will talk, we’ll talk more about the eating tablets next week. Um, because, um, I have like more thoughts on that, but be brave. Find a search engine. This is weird to me.

[00:42:27] Brett: [00:42:27] Ah, well, I mean, it

[00:42:30] Christina: [00:42:30] mean, it’s not weird. It makes sense, but yeah.

[00:42:32] Brett: [00:42:32] fits, uh, the idea of like their, their kind of mission statement and creating like a search engine, that’s more crowdsourced and works with micro payments. Uh, like it makes sense. I am a little concerned, like, I, I need to know more about you. You don’t at all.

[00:42:54] Christina: [00:42:54] Not at all. Not even remotely.

[00:42:55] Brett: [00:42:55] I need to know more about, they have this thing called goggles, which [00:43:00] basically lets anybody create filters.

[00:43:03] So like you could have, we talk about filter bubbles and these are basically their filters that you opt into. Like the thing about. Filter bubbles that upsets people is they don’t even know they’re in a bubble. They don’t know that Google is giving them different results than it’s giving other people and braid search engine.

[00:43:24] They’re talking about, uh, basically being able to opt into different filters. Like you want nothing, but like creationists anti-vaxxer results, you can turn that filter on which, you know, that’s like the scary thing to me. I. Also there’s so much shit out on the internet that you kind of have to choose your filters.

[00:43:45] I guess

[00:43:46] Christina: [00:43:46] Yeah. I mean, at a certain point it’s like, I don’t well, because the problem is, is that with, with, with SEO, which. For better or worse is, is how things work. Like people will optimize [00:44:00] stuff, you know, to, it’s not as if like organic ranking only means so much, right? Like the beauty of, of the original kind of.

[00:44:09] Google page rank was, yeah. SEO is part of it, but it was also kind of like a built-in kind of thing where they could kind of assess where they would try to assess, like how useful was this result, right. Like how often would you like stay on that page or when you click back to another result or like how, how useful was it?

[00:44:23] Right. Um, how much did it actually answer your question versus how much do they just stop the keywords? So it showed up at the top and that’s, they’ve gotten a little bit away from that. Right. But it’s like to your point, We all have, like these filter bubbles will take over. If you don’t have anything, like if it’s just kind of a free for all.

[00:44:40] Then I fear that the people who are going to capitalize on it the most, it’s not like the internet is a meritocracy or anything, not the meritocracies even exist, but the internet certainly is not Ameritocracy. And it’s like, it’s going to be the shit that you see, that’s going to rise up and it’s going to take over, you know what I mean?

[00:44:58] Like if you don’t have some sort of. [00:45:00] Um, filtering or, or grounders in place, like in a perfect ideal world. Of course it would be everyone on its merits, but that’s not the world we live in or that we’ve ever lived in. And the internet is no exception. So.

[00:45:11] Brett: [00:45:11] part of braids plan though is, uh, to anonymously track, which. Uh, which links which get clicked and which ones seem to be the right result. And they have some plans for like spacing out the tracking from the actual clicks. So you can’t tell which user clicked what, but still be able to collect the information about which, uh, which result ended up being the right one and kind of building their index based on that.

[00:45:44] Christina: [00:45:44] Right. You know, I mean, it could work. I mean, like Apple is trying to do something similar with differential, privacy and Google there, you know what we talked about a little bit last week and that you have more links on this. Cause it was, you know, uh effs um, article about their, um, uh, you know, [00:46:00] federated learning of cohort cohorts thing, which was pretty critical of it.

[00:46:04] Um, like it’s, um, It’s an, it’s not a bad idea, right? It’s one of those things where I think it could make sense. I think my genuine question is always, it’s not that it’s not technically possible to truly anonymize this stuff. It’s is it likely because we’ve seen with a lot of these, you know, um, so-called anonymized kind of services and whatnot.

[00:46:26] That really, you can still very much identify who individuals are. Like the New York times had a thing. I think it was last year where they were able to kind of gather a bunch of cell phone data and they were able to basically track down and, and identify like individuals and individual movements throughout DC based on their cell phone patterns.

[00:46:45] And this was supposed to be information that was anonymized, but it could still be very much individualized. And I’ll be honest and say, I care less about things like. My search history. Not that I [00:47:00] don’t care about it, but I care less about having a profile for that exist for advertising companies or for whoever.

[00:47:05] Then I do about like my location being tracked. Um, I, you know, feel like that is, is far more insidious and has far more repercussions, but I do always look at any claim from any company who’s like, yeah, we can de-anonymize uh, or not, not de-anonymize we can anonymize. Um, you know, this, this information and aggregate while still offering the features that we get from, you know, um, tracking things and tailoring things.

[00:47:34] I just look at that with a side eye. I know it’s possible. I just, I just don’t know how likely it is, but I don’t know.

[00:47:43] Brett: [00:47:43] mean, so to the Google point there, their flock idea is basically instead of tracking individuals, we’re going to assign individuals to groups and your browser will do the tracking instead of cookies. And. [00:48:00] Ultimately, it’s still targeted advertising and it still comes with all the potential for the discrimination and privacy invasion.

[00:48:08] And there, there are a lot of like, it’s all like white paper at this point. There’s no, there’s no actual plan. The browser, the first, uh, kind of incarnations of it were supposed to come out. Maybe April. Uh, but there’s like, there are so many unanswered question about like how they’re actually going to do this.

[00:48:27] And the more I read, um, like starting with eff statement on it, like, it it’s very questionable. Like why would you Google gave up targeted advertising? Like you got to question

[00:48:41] Christina: [00:48:41] No, they’re not. I mean, well, of course it’s like the whole reason is because it’s no longer, um, either, uh, viable from like, you know, you see Mozilla, but, but really the big thing is Safari and you see other people like blocking. Certain types of targeting. And so it makes it harder for them to do their job.

[00:48:58] And then you maybe have some of [00:49:00] the antitrust or other kind of government kind of interference with that stuff. Right? Like that’s, that’s the, the city that can meet who looks at that. I’m like, okay, those are your reasons. Like, that’s why you would do this because you wouldn’t get rid of it for just any reason because you don’t, you don’t care.

[00:49:13] Right? Like it’s one of those things. You’re like, no, like, I, I, um, This, this is a big part of their business. I mean, this whole thing with DoubleClick, which is why I think DoubleClick was such a important, like innovation for them. Uh, like we’re not innovation, but such an important like acquisition for them.

[00:49:27] Um, and it does seem like they’re just kind of shifting the narrative a little bit, but it’s, um, I don’t know, like I’m, I’m absolutely. So, so, um, I question like how some of that stuff works, but it’s also one of those things where I think with brave, my issue is, and they, they bought what they bought as they bought clicks, where they bought like the people behind clicks, which was like a privacy focused.

[00:49:56] Search engine. And so it has some basis, you know, when in prior stuff. [00:50:00] And it’s not that I have any doubt in the technical acumen of the people behind brave. I think they’re actually smart. And I think there are a lot of good ideas in the browser. What I can’t get over with brave as much as they’ve tried to spend things I’m like still mad at them about this.

[00:50:12] Cause I just find it so disingenuous and it makes me hard to trust. Anything they say is like, I’m very bothered by the fact that like they take out advertisements on other people’s content and replace it with their own advertisements. And then the only way that the people whose advertisements they’ve taken over, which I have a problem with, if you’re going to replace it with your own.

[00:50:32] Um, and, and to be honest, I kind of don’t love like, as like a for-profit entity taking out advertisements by default at all. Like if I’m being totally honest. Um, but, but particularly if they’re, you know, adding their own on top of it, the only way that the people who. Can, you know, who are the creators of that stuff can, can get paid, is that they opt in to Braves program.

[00:50:57] Like it just, I’m still really bothered [00:51:00] by that. And I still find that to be such a disingenuous thing to be like, Oh, we hate advertisements except the ones that we’re going to replace your ads. But like, I just feel like.

[00:51:10] Brett: [00:51:10] but, but, but like the whole idea is like, basically they don’t, it’s not that they hate advertisements. They hate the way advertising

[00:51:18] Christina: [00:51:18] I, yeah, I get that, but I still feel like it’s not their place. And I still feel like it’s pretty fucked up too, for them to take like the, the role of saying we want our company to make money and we’re fine with the ads that we sell. And so we will proactively take them off of your stuff.

[00:51:35] Brett: [00:51:35] aren’t targeted

[00:51:36] Christina: [00:51:36] I understand that, but that, but, but, but, but that doesn’t give them the right on my website for them to replace how my website is, is displayed to people who visit my website like that.

[00:51:45] To me, I’m sorry. I think that’s fucked up. Like, I, I’m not okay with that. Like, I’m fine with ad blockers in general. I’m not really down with like the ad blockers that are owned by ad companies, you know, like ad block pluses, like you block origin, I’m all about regular you block is a whole other thing. [00:52:00] Um, and.

[00:52:01] And I, I, you know, people do what you want, but like, as somebody who used to work in an advertiser, you know, kind of, you know, sponsored kind of world, but even beyond that, and just frankly, from like an autonomy standpoint, like who the fuck is brave to decide what ads I can or can’t display on my website.

[00:52:17] Like if an individual user wants to install a plugin, that’s fine, but who the hell is this browser company? It’s not only get rid of them, but replace them with ones they’ve deemed. Correct. Like who the fuck gives them that authority and then who the hell it lets them say, Oh, and we’ll, we’ll pay you, but you have to opt into our bullshit bat token system.

[00:52:36] You have to like, give us your information so we can pay you for stuff that we are like, we’re taking your ads and replacing ours. So we’re like, I just think it’s fucked up. And I think it’s a really disingenuous way of them saying, Oh, we care about. Like they don’t give a shit about creators. They don’t, and that’s fine, but don’t pretend like you do.

[00:52:54] I just find it really disingenuous to be like, Oh, ads are bad, except for ours.

[00:53:00] [00:53:00] Brett: [00:53:00] fair enough. You, you, you feel very passionate about this.

[00:53:04] Christina: [00:53:04] Well, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t, I don’t know when, like I use brave from time to time. I don’t use it on the desktop. I use it on mobile sometimes and I’m like, I, again, like, I feel like they have good ideas. I just, I find that whole thing really disingenuous. I also find the cult around brand. Brendan Eich completely.

[00:53:21] Stupid because the reason the cult exists is because he was briefly Mozilla CEO and then was fired, I think, rightly so. He never should have been elevated to that position without them doing like a deep dive into stuff. Um, and, and people are still mad about that and they’re like, Oh, well, Mozilla would be different Firefox.

[00:53:38] Wouldn’t be so fucked if Hubert and charge. No, it would still be pretty fucked. It would still be completely reliant on Google. Like he, him being the leader wouldn’t have changed anything. I don’t think, but. Like I respect his technical stuff, technical ability. I just don’t quite understand the cult of people who are like obsessed with him because of some vendetta that they’re mad that he got, you [00:54:00] know, fired for. Like, I don’t, he couldn’t lead that organization. People didn’t feel comfortable with someone like that as their leader

[00:54:12] Brett: [00:54:12] you know what browser is probably the safest. And probably the most pure links.

[00:54:20] Christina: [00:54:20] Oh, yeah. Okay. Fair enough. But like that’s yeah. I mean, I guess that’s the one good one. Yeah.

[00:54:26] Brett: [00:54:26] I just, I just checked my command line to see if Lynx is still like, installed on my machine and it totally is. Um, I don’t remember how to use it. Yeah.

[00:54:38] Christina: [00:54:38] Yeah, I was going to say, hasn’t it been replaced with something like isn’t there like another, like, I think obviously it’s still a thing, but, um, I think that there’s like another text base. Um, what browser.

[00:54:49] Brett: [00:54:49] there, I bet there is, but yeah, I’m reading my blog right now with links and no ads, no cookies. And I mean, I try to have a [00:55:00] blog that works without JavaScript anyway,

[00:55:02] Christina: [00:55:02] I was going to say you care about accessibility. I mean, that’s actually the, I think probably one of the best things about like going like JavaScript free, um, is accessible, although I’m not opposed to JavaScript or whatever, but yeah.

[00:55:15] Brett: [00:55:15] Yeah, well, I use JavaScript to add functionality, but not replaced functionality.

[00:55:20] Christina: [00:55:20] right. Progressive

[00:55:21] Brett: [00:55:21] yeah. My site works in links that should be, uh, works best in links. You remember those works best in internet Explorer and Netscape icons.

[00:55:30] Christina: [00:55:30] I showed you I’ve I’ve um, I’ve actually kind of been wanting to like make a t-shirt or something that has like, you know, works best Netscape navigator, 4.0 or something

[00:55:39] Brett: [00:55:39] Um, I’m Googling works best in links right now because I’m really curious if this already exists. It doesn’t, I’m going to make, well, I shouldn’t say it. Doesn’t duck, duck go. Didn’t offer an immediate, uh, uh, immediate link. I, I think, uh, I’m think I’m going to put a sticker on my blog. Oh, uh, works best, best [00:56:00] viewed in links.

[00:56:01] How did what’s that phrase before best viewed in? Yeah, it was best viewed. I love these live Google searches

[00:56:10] Christina: [00:56:10] I was going to say best feed and internet explore button. Um, uh, I’m looking like for the images. Yeah. Best viewed with Microsoft internet Explorer was, um, was usually how it worked or best viewed with the Netscape navigator.

[00:56:23] Brett: [00:56:23] cause you had to make a decision. At some point you

[00:56:25] Christina: [00:56:25] You did.

[00:56:26] Brett: [00:56:26] you could choose Netscape or you could choose internet Explorer and you could like, they, they were so divergent at that point. And now it’s, you know, it’s chromium and WebKit and like what’s the other one? What’s Oh, and Mozilla. Gecko.

[00:56:43] Yeah. Um, like they’re still like, yeah, they move, they accept different parts of the spec at different rates, but it’s nothing like it was back then. Like the HTML was different for the

[00:56:56] Christina: [00:56:56] Right. Well, right. Well like, like internet Explorer, like in like [00:57:00] adopted CSS first. Right. And then there was like the whole act of X thing. Yeah, no, they were different. Like, if you just did H developi 3m, but even there was a time when like tables would be different. And yet I remember that being in middle school and like having to figure out how to get my layout, to look as accurate as possible in both browsers,

[00:57:16] Brett: [00:57:16] because tables were how we did layout back then.

[00:57:19] Christina: [00:57:19] completely complete tables and frames.

[00:57:22] Brett: [00:57:22] Oh, frames.

[00:57:23] Christina: [00:57:23] Frames. Yep.

[00:57:25] Brett: [00:57:25] Yup. And server side includes

[00:57:28] Christina: [00:57:28] Which are coming back now.

[00:57:29] Brett: [00:57:29] really why?

[00:57:32] Christina: [00:57:32] I don’t know.

[00:57:33] Brett: [00:57:33] Huh? Yeah. Okay. Um, well, it should be another segment of our show. Uh, reminiscing about old technology.

[00:57:43] Christina: [00:57:43] I know. And everything old is new. Again, it’s one of those weird things where like, Yeah. Uh, because there’s the, there’s this certain like push to, you know, everything like yeah. Everything like went like from anyway. Yeah. There’s this, everything old is new. Again, everything being slightly [00:58:00] reinvented differently.

[00:58:01] Um, uh, okay. We’ve got, do we have one more sponsor? We need to talk to,

[00:58:06] Brett: [00:58:06] do. We do. And it’s, I saved my, my favorite for last. And hopefully everyone is still listening because I got to tell you about text expander,

[00:58:14] Christina: [00:58:14] well, text expander.

[00:58:16] Brett: [00:58:16] love, text expander. We could talk about this every week for free, but we’re, we’re getting paid. So, so, um, I’m gonna, I’m gonna read most of this, but I’m going to have a lot of stuff I have to say.

[00:58:27] Um, so work harder. No work smarter, not harder with

[00:58:34] Christina: [00:58:34] There you go. There you go. Nailed it.

[00:58:38] Brett: [00:58:38] text expander helps you work faster and smarter so you can focus your time on your most important work, who just a few keystrokes text expander keeps you consistent, accurate, and working efficiently speed through emails with snippets containing fill in fields that you can trigger with a couple of keystrokes, fill in fields, make it possible.

[00:58:57] Customize a snippet. Every time you use it, [00:59:00] only changing the parts that need to using text expanders, powerful shortcuts and abbreviations can streamline and speed up everything you type. And it helps you get your message, right? Every time you can expand content that correct your spelling keeps your language consistent with just a few keystrokes.

[00:59:17] And if you’re working in like a team environment, you can have, uh, texts. TextExpander for teams, which can let you define kind of like, this is how we address, uh, customers. This is how we reply to this kind of request. This is how we, uh, state our mission. Like you can have consistent language for everyone in the company and it’s super easy.

[00:59:39] Um, and people don’t have to go check a style guide every time. But anyway, Overtired listeners get 20% off their first year and you can go to text expander.com/podcast to get your discount and learn more about text expanders. So I, I, yes, I just published, uh, [01:00:00] I have this old system called Tex expenders snippet T snippets, and I built it so that I could share my snippet groups publicly.

[01:00:09] This is before they had

[01:00:11] Christina: [01:00:11] This is before they, they, I was going to say before they let you publicly do it. Yeah. I used to do something similar.

[01:00:16] Brett: [01:00:16] So, and then I, I, I built it. So like basically I was editing Pilates files. It was automated, but I would convert my P list into something that could be templated and people could punch in their own favorite prefix and it would give them a custom URL. And, uh, since building that text, expander has created a kind of a public.

[01:00:36] Sharing a snippet sharing a part of their website and you can go and view all these public snippets. So I have started converting my snippet groups into these public groups and I put my first one up. I’ll link it in the, uh, in the show notes, but it’s, uh, it’s kind of the core Bret Turkstra tools that I use with text expander.

[01:00:59] Um, [01:01:00] like the ones that are, you know, fit for public consumption anyway.

[01:01:03] Christina: [01:01:03] No exactly. No. Yeah, totally. I know what you mean. I had one that I think somebody else, uh, basically kind of took and did something similar with, but I had like the various, um, like, uh, emoticons, um, which I think is now like an official one. Like people can like download or whatever, but like I’d created, this was years ago.

[01:01:22] Like a thing, you know of

[01:01:23] Brett: [01:01:23] the shrug and the table flip. Those are, yeah. You copy paste those every

[01:01:27] Christina: [01:01:27] yeah, so yeah, so I, so I have like a text expanders thing, which is, um, just some Astros Astros shrug, and it’ll automatically insert. And then I have other things too. Yeah. Um,

[01:01:38] Brett: [01:01:38] I have one that’s comma, comma, F U U. it, it, it puts like an image that just says, fuck, uh,

[01:01:47] Christina: [01:01:47] That’s nice. Yeah. I used to have a thing. Um, I need to go back and like do it, but I, yeah, I used to have a whole thing with text expander, with my, like a Jif reaction. My reaction shift library.

[01:02:00] [01:02:00] Brett: [01:02:00] I also created one for cussing. Um, if you, I think it’s either cursor, cus I can’t remember. I don’t use it often because I tend to just swear, but w when you trigger it, it gives you a fill in and you type in the swear word you want to say. And it turns it into like cartoon with all the punctuation just keeps the first letter.

[01:02:21] And if it ends in Ang, it leaves the NGS. So you get like F exclamation point pound sign at symbol in. And, uh, it’s, it’s very handy for, uh, like Facebook where, you know, my mom reads my stuff, so I, I can, I can, I can cuss, but do it in a. Um, more acceptable way for my mother. I mean, she still like to her, like, I mean to her, like crap and, and, uh, cheese and rice is just as bad as saying Jesus Christ.

[01:02:51] Cause it’s all, you know, I know what you meant.

[01:02:55] Christina: [01:02:55] I mean she’s not wrong, which, which my argument is like, okay, if you know what I meant, then I should just say the [01:03:00] actual term. But, um, yeah, I, uh, I just looked at my text expander, like the ASCII mode of content. Cause they have one that you can subscribe to or whatever that you can do, which was, I think largely taken from my original one at some point, because I had one that was FEI, but the actual term, and that is, that is hell yeah.

[01:03:19] And um, and the one that is, I guess, fit for public consumption.

[01:03:24] Brett: [01:03:24] yeah, no attribution. I assume that stuff gets lost.

[01:03:29] Christina: [01:03:29] Which is fine, which is completely okay. Like I’m just happy people are able to use it. Uh, but yeah, no attribution, but, um, I’m actually, I think that was why I knew that it was mine was because like, that thing was changed, but some of the other things were the same. And I was like, Oh yeah. Okay. Cause I remembered when I created those things and I was like, you know, naming them.

[01:03:48] And that was certainly like a choice that is very unbrand for me. So.

[01:03:54] Brett: [01:03:54] all right. Well, we should wrap up so I can edit this and still get it out today.

[01:03:58] Christina: [01:03:58] Totally [01:04:00] totally. Um,

[01:04:01] Brett: [01:04:01] this and it’s still Wednesday, it means I won the battle against time and got it

[01:04:07] Christina: [01:04:07] it means bright won the battle against time.

[01:04:08] Brett: [01:04:08] it’s Thursday or Friday, it means that maybe, maybe Brett’s mental health became more important than, uh, than editing this goddamn podcast for you.

[01:04:18] Ungrateful sons of bitches.

[01:04:20] Christina: [01:04:20] Basically also I realized I was way angrier in the brave segment that I should have been. I actually do feel like I’m just going to go back to this for a

[01:04:29] Brett: [01:04:29] angry. Just passionate.

[01:04:30] Christina: [01:04:30] well, okay. But like, okay. I think that like, what they do with ads is fucked up, but I am happy that someone is at least trying to do something with a, with a, with a search engine.

[01:04:39] Even if I don’t like a lot of the things that they do. I do. I am glad somebody is doing something with a search engine. Like I hope that that will force. Like we need more competition in this space. There was, uh, there was like an article or maybe it was on daring fireball that the group were talked about.

[01:04:54] Like, um, like how Google results are, are worse, you know, than they used to be. [01:05:00] And there were a lot of, they are, and I think there’s been a lot of conversation about why that’s happened. And people up like Lambo, they put the ads and then this and that. No, I’ll tell you what it is is that they have no competition and they haven’t had any competition.

[01:05:12] There’s literally no one who is even like close to making them have to try. So they don’t have to care. And, and it’s like, it’s like, what happens when you’re the best at something for a really long time, you just get lazy. So if for no other reason than forcing, like. Google to step it up and improve. I want things like, um, Braves thing and, and I, and duck, duck go and, and other stuff to have a chance, you know?

[01:05:41] Brett: [01:05:41] Yeah, I was just thinking yesterday about trying to figure out why Google results seem worse than they used to be. Like, I used to build a, take an X code error message punch it. Into Google and figure out what the problem was. Now. I basically just get a bunch of Pastebin and just links to people [01:06:00] having the same problem with absolutely no like conversation or wrestling, or it it’ll send me to the, all these sites that, um, Uh, that mirror stack overflow.

[01:06:12] And I think they, they just scrapes that overflow and then add ads to it. But those results come up before stack overflow

[01:06:22] Christina: [01:06:22] Yes, no. Which

[01:06:23] Brett: [01:06:23] not on duck. Duck go, duck,

[01:06:25] Christina: [01:06:25] I know.

[01:06:26] Brett: [01:06:26] you like instant answers. It’ll even highlight the answered.

[01:06:29] Christina: [01:06:29] Right because Dr. Goh doesn’t have access, I’m guessing to the paid API stuff. Right. Like, you know, they’re also, they’re using being for some other backend stuff, they’re using different things, but like they got, they don’t have the same, um, ways that people can like abuse the Infoblox or, or whatever, the way that, that Google does.

[01:06:51] Brett: [01:06:51] Yeah. I still love duck duck.

[01:06:54] Christina: [01:06:54] I do too. I do too. I

[01:06:55] Brett: [01:06:55] know there’s a bang Terp stra search. [01:07:00] There’s an official, I can’t remember if it’s Terp. I think it’s bang Terp. Like for anyone who doesn’t know a duck, duck go has these, uh, you put an exclamation point and then a word and it’ll do a special search based on the bank search.

[01:07:15] Uh, and there’s one that searches my blog with like bang, Terp. That’s awesome. I’m honored. Um, I’m blown away by that. That’s good. Yeah. Anyway, anyway. Okay. Well, yeah. Get some sleep, Christina.

[01:07:30] Christina: [01:07:30] Get some sleep bread and yeah, it is, it is bang, Terp. That’s awesome.

[01:07:35] Brett: [01:07:35] I’ll link a link, a random search in the show notes.

[01:07:38] Christina: [01:07:38] Yeah. I, I just, I just, I just typed in a bang Terp and then keyboards and it immediately came up with

[01:07:44] Brett: [01:07:44] Yeah. All right. Well, and everyone check out the discord to, uh, keep the conversations going. W we

[01:07:51] Christina: [01:07:51] definitely. Yeah. Um, and, uh, Taylor Swift is up for six Grammys on Sunday. So, you know, we definitely have suffered, gonna [01:08:00] have to be talking about with her for next

[01:08:01] Brett: [01:08:01] over tired fodder for the future. All right. Oh, and we should watch, we should watch the, uh, the, the, the, the, uh, Billie Eilish. And we can

[01:08:10] Christina: [01:08:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let’s watch the Billie Eilish documentary so we can talk about that. That sounds good.

[01:08:14] Brett: [01:08:14] All right. Rock on. Get some sleep.

[01:08:16] Christina: [01:08:16] Get some sleep.