Overtired 285

[00:00:00] Jeff: Hello and welcome to overtired. I am Jeff Severns Guntzel and here with me today are Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra and, um, and I can see them, but you can’t y’all look great. It’s good to see ya. Let’s let’s do a podcast.

[00:00:23] Christina: Thank you. It was great to see both of you as well and hear you, um, for, for the listeners. We’re not trying to be, you know, like exclusionary, we just don’t want to Polish a video podcast. We just don’t. We, we talked about it.

[00:00:33] Brett: of these, one of these days, I’m going to get you guys to do a video podcast, but I understand the reservations.

[00:00:41] Jeff: I did shower today.

[00:00:42] Brett: We do fucking look good though.

[00:00:44] Jeff: There’s

[00:00:44] Christina: too. But like, yeah, I’m at this weird angle with where my laptop is. So

[00:00:49] Brett: why? Why are you like your camera’s going up your nose? Why is

[00:00:54] Christina: yeah, because I’m using the camera that is on my laptop rather than using the other camera, which is better positioned because I [00:01:00] wanted to stare at the screen and it’s on my lap. So.

[00:01:02] Brett: I appreciate the eye contact. I will say like when you’re looking off screen and it feels like you’re just giving us the cold shoulder, just cause you’re reading your screen. It feels weird.

[00:01:14] Christina: though I’m actually giving you eye contact, but it looks like

[00:01:16] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. And, and Brett, Brett listeners looks like he always does on zoom, which is like the elevator got stuck between floors. Like your head is in the lower half and there’s a whole, top half.

[00:01:29] Brett: well, so cause, cause below, below my torso I’m I’m I, I’m still not comfortable with how much weight it, but on,

[00:01:39] Christina: This is terrible audio.

[00:01:40] Jeff: it. Sorry everybody. Sorry about that. Everybody just know that breaths just know that breaths a new headphone covers matches hoodie.

[00:01:48] Brett: Oh yeah. My socks match too. I would show you, but nobody on a podcast cares what my socks look like. They’re NASA socks.

[00:01:58] Jeff: You know, what’s weird is I looked over at my phone [00:02:00] just now and there are sponsors calling off the hook and that people that don’t even work with us yet, the one I get a sponsorship on this show right now, they’re just hearing this here and they’re going, you know,

[00:02:09] Brett: some. What, what sponsors are calling Jeff?

[00:02:12] Jeff: uh, it looks like I’m getting a call from, uh, is that ARP?

[00:02:17] That’s one of them. Um,

[00:02:20] Brett: Do you guys, do you guys get letters from the ARP?

[00:02:24] Jeff: no.

[00:02:25] Brett: I do regularly on the reg I get letters congratulating me on my retirement and offering me like platinum level membership with all of the perks that come for. What is it? 54 plus I’m 40 I’m 43. I’m

[00:02:45] Christina: I was going to say, I was, I was like, as like, you’re not in any way, shape or form on their target list. I will say if I start getting things from them, that is when, you know, despite like my commitment to only being 29 forever. That that is when I will like, [00:03:00] be very upset and I will

[00:03:01] Jeff: It’s not going to feel good.

[00:03:03] Christina: No, it’s not.

[00:03:04] Cosmetics are people too

[00:03:04] Brett: can we skip way down our topic list to talk about Christina’s Botox and fillers?

[00:03:09] Christina: We totally can.

[00:03:10] Jeff: Yeah, sure.

[00:03:11] Christina: If you want

[00:03:12] Brett: So, so on our list, it says Christina spent $2,500 on Botox and fillers ask me anything. So Christina,

[00:03:20] Christina: Yeah.

[00:03:20] Brett: a billboard just went up in my town, my town of 30,000 people, uh, with like average Botox and fillers come in today for your consultation.

[00:03:31] And like, I don’t see Wynnona having high enough beauty standards to really sustain a practice of Botox and fillers. But here’s my question. Here’s my AMA, what the fuck is the.

[00:03:46] Christina: Yeah. So it is, um, some sort of like gel substance. Sometimes it can be other things that they basically put in. Like I got some of my chins, my chin now looks a little bit more like pointed, like again, I’m at a

[00:03:58] Brett: I wasn’t going to say anything, but yeah, [00:04:00] it’s a beautiful Chan.

[00:04:01] Christina: Thank you. Um, so I got some there and I also got some in my cheekbones to add.

[00:04:04] Um, and I have, uh, according to the doctor, who’s super hot. She was like, you have very good bone structure. And I was like, thank you. And, um, uh,

[00:04:12] Brett: You have very good bone structure, but here, let me fix that for.

[00:04:15] Christina: well, I mean, she was like, it’s really honestly that the stuff in my cheekbones, it’s more preventative rather than anything else. Um, and, and so, but, but it’s, the idea is like, as you age, like you lose fat deposits in your face, which can make you.

[00:04:30] You know, more, more jelly and, and more like angular and, and older. And so the idea with fillers is that you can re add in kind of that, that, you know, it fills things to give you like a more full appearance. Um, and, um, and they can do other things too, like for people who might have, again, like if you wanted to add more like contouring to, again, like your, your chin or, or if you didn’t have like high cheek bones, or if you wanted to, um, uh, add in some areas where you have a lot of wrinkles, it can be useful.

[00:04:59] Whereas [00:05:00] Botox is botulism that basically gets rid of wrinkles.

[00:05:06] Brett: So, okay. You can see my face right now. None of our listeners. But what do I need? Like if you were giving me a consult

[00:05:14] Christina: I have no idea.

[00:05:15] Brett: and filler place, it’s not, that’s not your profession.

[00:05:19] Christina: is not my profession.

[00:05:20] Brett: just, you receive it

[00:05:22] Christina: I receive it. I trust them. And I’m like, what will keep me looking as young as possible, as long as possible? Like what will make me continue to look as good as possible? And like the fillers will last two years, so they’re expensive, but it’s a good investment.

[00:05:35] Whereas Botox is like, I don’t know. It depends on if you get Botox or Dysport because their competitors and they last, I don’t know, four months, five months, it varies. But, um, my one regret. As that I didn’t start getting Botox in my twenties. Um, and I would have started earlier because it it’s, it’s preventative.

[00:05:55] So if you do it earlier, for instance, like, I naturally don’t have a lot of lines in my face and stuff, [00:06:00] but as you get older, like everybody, it happens. And so if you start doing it earlier, then you can prevent like the wrinkles and shit from coming. Um, so it’s, it’s preventative. Um, people can go way overboard completely, but if you do it in moderation, like I would have started doing it at like 25, 26.

[00:06:17] If, if I could go back in time, that’s what I would’ve done. And it, and I wouldn’t have gone like every three or four months, I probably would’ve gone like every six, every seven. And it would have been small amounts, but it, it would have been the case. And like now, I mean, again, the, the listeners can’t see, but like I have movement, you know what I mean?

[00:06:33] Like my face isn’t

[00:06:34] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:06:34] Christina: but, but, but when I smile, when I smile, like I don’t have lines on my eyeline’s like, it’s, it’s just a different, it’s just.

[00:06:43] Brett: That’s weird. So

[00:06:45] Jeff: was not,

[00:06:46] Brett: oh, go

[00:06:47] Jeff: go ahead. Oh, No,

[00:06:48] Brett: Jeff, please, please.

[00:06:49] Jeff: I was not until we talked, we talked about this a little before the show last week, and like, I was not aware of. Uh, Botox and moderation. And though, as the way you describe it, [00:07:00] and especially just generally I wasn’t aware of its use as you describe it. And it’s super interesting to me and it makes me think it must be much more common than I realized, because I think I still have as an old man who remembers the early days of Botox.

[00:07:11] Like I think I still have that impression like that. And it’s clearly a way outdated sense of things.

[00:07:17] Christina: Yeah. Well, the thing is, is that most people who get it, you wouldn’t know that they have it, you know, when they have like the Botox face, most people who have it. Um, it’s not one of those things that a lot of people openly admit I will cause I don’t care. Uh, and I think I look great, but, um, uh, also like reduce the stigma, um, you know, of that sort of thing.

[00:07:37] Um, but I think that like a lot of people, like if you get it done well, and that’s the same, I think with any sort of like plastic surgery or anything, the idea is that people can’t tell like the goal should be not to. Someone’s like, oh my God, you know, you look so different, but oh yeah, you look really good, you know?

[00:07:54] Jeff: right, right, right. Totally. Yeah. That’s cool.

[00:07:57] Brett: My girlfriend is five years old, [00:08:00] older than me. And I’ll let you do the math. I won’t divulge her age on air, but, uh,

[00:08:06] Jeff: dummy.

[00:08:06] Brett: she like, she’s a, she’s a hippie she’s, she’s taking care of her face with like pippy facial products, her whole life. And, uh, she is just now starting to get maybe some like laugh lines, but she has almost no wrinkles on her face.

[00:08:24] But I have to say as someone, you more in the vicinity of 50 than 20 myself, uh, like I just, I kind of expect that in a woman, I, I, I love every line on her face, not to be overly Moshi about it, but, but I, at what age do you think it, it becomes pointless to try to keep avoiding wrinkles.

[00:08:50] Christina: I mean, I don’t know if it’s about avoiding wrinkles of it. It is. You just don’t want to feel like you look not like yourself. I don’t know. I mean, and it’s up to everyone. I mean, there are some people who have no problem with the aging process [00:09:00] and who are really happy to do it. I’m not

[00:09:02] Brett: excited about my wrinkles. I love my wrinkles. Like every time I see one I’m like, oh, I look distinguished. I’m

[00:09:08] Jeff: dude, who lives in podcasts from his basement?

[00:09:11] Christina: I was going to say, but you’re also, you’re also a man, which

[00:09:14] means that society judges you completely differently. Uh, you also don’t have, uh, like a public facing on camera job. Um, not that anybody has ever commented on me looking old at all. In fact, most people think that I’m at least a decade younger than I am, which is

[00:09:27] Brett: 29.

[00:09:28] Christina: right, exactly.

[00:09:29] But, but, but I, I want that to continue to be the place, right? Like it’s, it’s competitive. And, and if you look, if you don’t, you know, like youth sells, it just is what it is. And not everybody has that approach. Right? Like I’m, I’m completely open to people who are like, I have. Interest in doing this me, my personal white whale is I want to find out who Reese Witherspoon’s person is.

[00:09:51] And I’m like, I I’m, I’m not even joking here. Like I’m, I’m trying to like work my contacts in Los Angeles to try to figure it out. Uh, if I do find out, I obviously [00:10:00] won’t be able to share publicly. Um, but like, cause I would pay whatever amount of money it would cost to have whoever her person is. Cause she looks great.

[00:10:08] Like she looks older, but she doesn’t look old and she looks, she’s still playing roles of characters in her thirties when she’s in her mid forties, which is not common. Jennifer Lopez is a whole other thing. She claims she’s never had Botox or anything. I don’t know if I believe that I don’t really care, but Jennifer Lopez looks fucking stunning, you know?

[00:10:28] Jeff: like for you to get to this information about Reese Witherspoon’s person, you would have to play a game. I, I call, I only played in LA. I call it how many questions does it take me to break the NDA? And so you sit with, because everyone you meet in LA LA is on some sort, right? And you just start asking questions and going.

[00:10:48] I tell you the funniest example. Because it wasn’t technically a break, but I think it’s kind of fun. And it’s almost a ghost story. I was sitting with someone who was in charge of Tupac’s [00:11:00] archives and, um, and I said, I said, okay, okay, let’s play this game. I call break the NDA. I think I want to see how many questions it takes me to get to the point where you’re actually uncomfortable.

[00:11:11] Right? Like if you’re willing, if you’re willing to play, you don’t have to answer when I get to that point. But I want to, I see how quick we can get to that point. Right. so I’m like, where is Tupac’s archive now? Like can’t say, okay. Okay. Okay. Do you have a big office or a small office? Can’t say, then I said, does Tupac ever come by? And they stopped and went? I can’t say No, I was like, yes. Two bucks a lot. Anyway, I highly recommend the game. It’s fun.

[00:11:48] Christina: no, that’s okay. That’s a really good game.

[00:11:50] Jeff: Goes better with alcohol. And I’m not, if you, if you’re not a drinker out there listening, I’m not trying to encourage that sort of thing. But I found that it goes better.

[00:11:59] Christina: I love it. [00:12:00]

[00:12:00] Jeff: And I I’m careful, like if I, since I’m about to break the NDA, I don’t go any further. I just try to get, try to get using less obvious questions.

[00:12:09] Try to get to the point where they’re like, okay, we gotta stop. Everyone’s a willing participant,

[00:12:14] Brett: So this has been a really roundabout way to get to our mental health corner.

[00:12:20] Christina: It has been, but it’s

[00:12:21] Jeff: but here we are in the corner.

[00:12:22] Christina: I was going to say, but it actually fits. Cause like for me, I got that stun when I was in Atlanta and I won’t lie. Like it does help my mental health. Also. Not that there is, this is not my excuse for getting Botox. My mom likes to use this as my excuse for getting Botox.

[00:12:36] She’s like, oh, it helps your migraines too. And I’m like, well, yeah, but like, let’s be very clear why I’m doing.

[00:12:42] Jeff: But it does help migraines.

[00:12:44] Christina: Yeah, at least, I mean, for a lot of people, it does. And in fact, and I don’t because I don’t get it for that reason, I would feel weird. I’m trying to go through the insurance process, but insurance will to a certain degree to Padana until you have, [00:13:00] and how many hoops you jump through. If you have like chronic, chronic migraines, they will, at this point, I’ll actually cover Botox treatments because, um, they’re not sure why, but there’s something about, you know, like whatever is, um, I guess like in, in the botulism or whatever, however it’s released that does something that really helps a lot of people who have like chronic migraines

[00:13:22] Jeff: Interesting.

[00:13:23] Brett: Speaking of insurance before we go to mental health, I got to tell you this great news I got. So I currently, I have no teeth on the bottom, right of my jaw. I

[00:13:33] Christina: Oh, wow.

[00:13:34] Jeff: You

[00:13:35] Brett: easy from their back, no teeth. And my, my dental insurance had said they were going to cover $1,000 of the $6,000 bill. It was going to take to, to have these teeth removed, have the implants put in and have new teeth.

[00:13:54] And I just got a letter from insurance with I’d never appealed. [00:14:00] Like I have a flex spending account that was going to cover it. So I never appealed. But all of a sudden I got her letter that said, we plan to pay $5,000, which leaves me with like one grand out of pocket on, on these new teeth. I’m going to be able, I haven’t been able to chew on the right side of my mouth for almost a year now.

[00:14:20] Christina: That’s amazing. That’s so good.

[00:14:23] Jeff: Now that

[00:14:23] Brett: It is awful because

[00:14:24] Jeff: strong, left side.

[00:14:26] Brett: if you really enjoy the flavor of something, you want to taste it with your whole tongue and you don’t realize how much that matters until you’re not chewing on one side of your mouth. And you’re only tasting with half your tongue. It

[00:14:38] Christina: no, totally. I am. I had a root canal, um, a couple of years ago. It’s how I found my, my current dentist who is great. Cause she, she looked at and she was like, you need a root canal, go to this guy, get it done. I was like, awesome. And I had, um, I guess leading up to that, I thought before it got bad enough, like, I guess I’d just been kind of naturally only eating on one half of my face.

[00:14:58] And it was a similar sort of thing [00:15:00] where I had to kind of get used to again. I was like, oh right, okay. So I can chew on both sides of my mouth now.

[00:15:05] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I’m looking forward to it. It’ll be nice.

[00:15:08] Jeff: That’s awesome.

[00:15:09] Brett: Anyway, mental health. Hey, speaking of doctors though, Christina, D do you want to do a quick address?

[00:15:16] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say let’s let’s let’s do a quick ad break before we get into our mental health corner.

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[00:15:21] Christina: So if you’re looking for a new dentist and someone to kind of like either, you know, fix your teeth problems, uh, you know, that finding and booking a doctor who’s right for you and does not need to be a terrible experience. But, you know, there are a lot of questions when you’re going into that, like, will they take your insurance?

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[00:16:54] Brett: Uh,

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[00:17:18] Brett: Check it out today.

[00:17:20] Race and Jake from State Farm

[00:17:20] Jeff: A couple of notes on that, not the read, but the words itself. And I know we’re not really supposed to do That. but I heard docs in a row and immediately in my head, I went quack, quack, but then you don’t want to associate the word quack with, uh, any kind of healthcare. And that’s just a little note for the sponsor.

[00:17:37] It goes both ways.

[00:17:39] Christina: Honestly, it really does. And, and then when I hear quack, quack, I, I hear Aflac, which is a completely different type of insurance, which is not a sponsor of our podcast. Although, you know what, we would take their sponsorship because as classic overtired visitors know Brett and I have spent an inordinate amount of time talking about our favorite advertisements, which are usually insurance company [00:18:00] ads.

[00:18:00] Brett: always insurance ads,

[00:18:01] Christina: Always.

[00:18:02] Jeff: bring us the lizard. Bring us the duck.

[00:18:04] Brett: men. Do you, do you remember when Jake from state farm was white? had totally, I

[00:18:12] Jeff: like when they replaced the data on good times

[00:18:15] Brett: had totally forgotten, like at some point that the actor that played Jake from state farm had to have just been told everyone loves Jake from state farm, but Hey, take.

[00:18:29] We’re getting someone younger and blacker than you to just take over this name that we’ve created for you. And we all, we, we all, it was easy. Like I never thought twice about it.

[00:18:43] Jeff: the overlords knew it would be easy.

[00:18:49] Brett: yeah. Jake from say farmers way hotter. Now I gotta say

[00:18:53] Jeff: We

[00:18:53] Brett: that he’s a handsome man.

[00:18:55] Jeff: the

[00:18:55] Christina: He is a handsome man also I’m now like going through, uh, an ADHD, like, [00:19:00] um, Wiki K whole spiral, because you said replace the dad on good times. And I was like, did they replace them or did they kill them off? And I couldn’t, I can’t.

[00:19:07] Jeff: Right? Well, I think the dad at some point had a heart attack and died on the sh in the show

[00:19:13] Christina: No that’s no, no, no, no. That’s a different show.

[00:19:16] Jeff: That’s a different, that’s funny. Cause I, I feel bad about this because good times was an important show to

[00:19:20] Christina: It wasn’t a very important show, but, but, but, but then you’ve had like the famous Sr roll down damn damn scene when, when he died. Yeah, no, I think there was a different show where they replaced the dad, but it was on good times. What I think happened was that John Amos, who was famously in roots, he was upset by the direction of the show because it went all JJ centric and he was like, this is becoming buffoonery.

[00:19:42] And I don’t think that the important message that it’s spreading is good. And then he left.

[00:19:47] Jeff: I just saw an interview with him about that. In what context though, was I on a rabbit hole? Not on you. Go into a rabbit hole, not on a rabbit hole.

[00:19:55] Christina: Brett. So board let’s let’s let’s let’s let him talk about

[00:19:57] Jeff: Good.

[00:19:58] Brett: it’s just, I’ve never, I’ve never [00:20:00] seen good times. I have

[00:20:01] Jeff: Oh my God.

[00:20:02] Just started episode

[00:20:03] Brett: It’s not a show I grew up with.

[00:20:05] Jeff: Just started episode

[00:20:07] Christina: Wow. How did you never did? So did you watch any of the Norman Lear

[00:20:10] Brett: I did not watch TV as a kid, so I started watching TV, like for real, in like 1995. I never good times was never on my radar.

[00:20:21] Christina: I mean, it ended before I was born, but like, I, I washed it in reruns probably around 95. It w they would have it, there

[00:20:28] Brett: I was busy catching up on a decade of the Simpsons at

[00:20:32] Christina: Totally. No, I had to say, like, you had better things, newer things to watch, but I as like, like, like, like a 12 year old, I was like watching, um, the, all the Norman Lear stuff.

[00:20:42] Cause that was like when like TB land became a thing. And, and so,

[00:20:47] Jeff: because I was watching it when it was first year.

[00:20:49] Christina: but it was a great show. Is Janet Jackson’s first show Janet Jackson was on good times.

[00:20:52] Jeff: and a and Lenny Kravitz is

[00:20:54] Brett: You know who I just

[00:20:56] Christina: no, no. She was on, she was on the Jefferson’s.

[00:20:58] Jeff: Damn it. the Jefferson’s.

[00:20:59] God, I’m [00:21:00] doing it all over the place. Edit, edit, edit, edit.

[00:21:03] Brett: No, no. We’re keeping that last night, I was watching star Trek the next generation, and there was a little girl and I was like, I recognize those eyes and those cheekbones. And it took me a second, but I had just watched, uh, the original trilogy. Uh Spider-Man like a week before. And it immediately dawned on me that it was Kirsten Dunst in star Trek, the next generation playing a little girl, like young little girl.

[00:21:35] It was, it was weird.

[00:21:37] Christina: That’s amazing. No, I didn’t know. She was, I remember her an interview with the vampire, cause she’s like a year older than me and I was like, I want to kiss Brad Pitt. Um, I was very jealous. Um, but, but I didn’t realize she was that like, that’s awesome.

[00:21:52] Brett: I had no idea and, and I could not believe it was her. I had to go through her whole filmography to find. [00:22:00] We at the end star Trek TNG, but anyway, Christie, and I’m curious about your mental health.

[00:22:07] The Mental Health Corner

[00:22:07] Christina: Well, as I alluded to beforehand, like it’s, it’s pretty good. Um, I, I’m glad to be back home. I was in Atlanta for a long time. That was stressful on a lot of levels. I’m glad to be back. Um, uh, my Botox and my fillers, you make me feel better. And, um, yeah, work is work is going well, which helps. Um, not everybody’s job is tied to their mental health, but mine certainly is.

[00:22:29] So I’m in a good place.

[00:22:32] Brett: Cool. That’s good to hear. I’m really happy. I’m really happy that other people are doing well. I’m doing fine, but Jeff, how are you?

[00:22:42] Jeff: Um, I’m doing okay. I was so glad for, I didn’t get to say officially goodbye last episode. Cause I, I cut, I cut scenes to get dressed. Um, but it was really nice to have Alex on and have a conversation about mental health and medication and all that stuff. [00:23:00] And I’m pretty much in the same place I was where I’m trying to kind of work my way to the right, right medications and right.

[00:23:05] Balance of medications and, and um, and I think I’m heading in the right direction. Like I’m ditching one next week for, uh, for a different one. And um, but it’s just been, uh, like I’ve said a few shows in a row it’s like, it’s such a focus of my day. Um, because I’m, I’m not like complacent about it, right?

[00:23:27] Like I’m kind of, but on the other hand, I’m almost like overly vigilant about. What I’m feeling or experiencing based on the medications, but that’s because, I mean like the medications I’m taking and the words of my psychiatric nurse practitioner was like, these Can, hurt you really quickly if you’re not kind of monitoring, you know, what is it doing to your blood sugar?

[00:23:46] And are you retraining retaining water? And is it because of this or this and all of this stuff? And it, it really like puts me in this circle where I’m just like trying, sometimes I’m just left kind of trying to remember how I get to this point in the first [00:24:00] place. Right. Like, you know, I started with no ma’am, I hadn’t taken any medications until pretty much right.

[00:24:05] At the beginning of the pandemic coincidence. Um, before that I had taken no medications for anything really loved that first couple of years of it was, uh, sertraline and then Vyvanse together. But then that started to clearly be aggravating, other aspects of like undiagnosed parts of my mental illness.

[00:24:24] And so that’s what led me to my current sort of cocktail that I’m working through. And man, it’s exhausting,

[00:24:30] Brett: can we acknowledge that last week with, with Alex Cox, you very smoothly came out of the closet. As a bipolar person, like we have never discussed that on the show previously, it has always been tiptoed around. Um, because you, you, you, you were hesitant to mention that, but it came up very cleanly in the last episode.

[00:24:58] And I just want to say welcome to the world [00:25:00] of bipolar people, man.

[00:25:02] Jeff: you’ve already welcomed me. Brett was like the first person I consulted, but yes, I have a late diagnosis of bipolar one and it’s something that I’ve sort of been able to. Basically control my whole life, um, and have just generally sort of avoided conversations that lead towards that diagnosis or like therapists.

[00:25:23] So just kind of missed it a little better, misunderstood it as something else. And I, part of the reason I don’t talk about it a lot is it’s still pretty new to me. And so I, I have a risk myself of like over pathologizing myself. And so the more I talk about it, the more I set into stone, a certain narrative, and it feels so fluid right now because I’m just trying to figure out how.

[00:25:45] Um, sort of treated, I mean, the one thing that I, I was told multiple times after the diagnosis was that it’s like, Hey, good news. This is a very treatable thing. Right. And that seems totally true. I haven’t had any issues. I mean, it was like seven months ago was, [00:26:00] was the period of my life that led me towards this diagnosis.

[00:26:03] I haven’t had any issues since taking medication that are related to like specifically like very manic or very depressed, or, you know, the kind of cliched things people think of when they think of bipolar, which of course is actually an infinite number of experiences for an infinite number of people.

[00:26:20] Um, but I, I worry. That if I talked about it too much, early on, as I was still trying to understand it, that I would sort of set a narrative in stone that even I got trapped into, right. Like that it would limit, it would limit the way in which I think about our sort of, or sort of try to assess what my mental health situation is.

[00:26:40] And so, so it was very easy with Alex talking about it, to just say, well, it makes sense for me to say that I knew at least Brett, I knew you were in there going, he did it.

[00:26:48] Christina: No, I was so proud of you for, for doing that. And, um, and maybe it’s one of those things, like, because like the topic comes up, you pay more attention to it. But, um, Andy Dunn, who’s the, he was the [00:27:00] founder of Bonobos, um, which, you know, is like the clothing, um, uh, like men’s kind of clothing. He just wrote a book, um, where he talks publicly about, um, his bipolar diagnosis and, um, and how, I guess he found out when he was in his twenties and he was founding various startups.

[00:27:17] And, and so his it’s actually a really good MRR, but I can’t recall. We talked before, like the last episode about how this isn’t discussed enough and we don’t see, I guess maybe public examples of people who are really successful and have connections, like talking about it. And, and he just published a book.

[00:27:36] So. That’s good, but I also, I’m just really proud of you for feeling comfortable enough to be vulnerable and share that. And,

[00:27:46] Jeff: Oh, it’s an easy space to do it in. Thanks to you too.

[00:27:50] Brett: I, uh, I almost contacted you after to ask if you did it on purpose because it was so you just slipped it in there. So,

[00:27:58] Jeff: well, I knew from listening to [00:28:00] Dubai Friday, that Alex had was, you know, kind of talking about. Their own diagnosis. So it was like kind of assumed it would come up, um, or just thought it might come up. I guess that’s what I mean to say, but you know, it is, and with this, you shared a clip, Christina, um, of that dude and talking about how, as we talked about in the podcast last week, there were like different kinds of mental illness that are now okay.

[00:28:25] To talk about. Like they don’t make anybody go, Hey, we should have just, uh, let’s just debrief on that interview with console. Uh, you know what I mean? Like, but, um, but it is true that the bipolar. thing is still like, even for me, Personally, like I had sort of stigmatized it. And when I stigmatize things, that’s not in a judgemental way, it just means that I haven’t heard enough people talking about it.

[00:28:46] I mean, Brett, you’ve done an enormous service to people, your readers, your listeners, by talking about it, writing about it, writing about the challenges, um, joking about how you can tell where you’re manic phases, where by looking at your GitHub [00:29:00] repo and your, when you’re pushing stuff. Um, but for me, it was like, for me, it remains a thing where just kinda like, I don’t mind talking about it, but it’s so fresh that I want to still leave room for me to sort of understand it and, and take form itself in front of me, you know?

[00:29:19] But it’s definitely one of those cases where. You know, I’ve had one other, two other situations like this, where something happens and it causes, and it causes me to just look back over my whole life and kind of reevaluate certain things that I had that I had called true about me. And they were true about me, but they were also true about me because of something going on in my brain chemistry.

[00:29:43] And so I almost wanted to do like a version of the alcoholics anonymous thing and like start calling people and be like, remember when I called you and pitched that like massive project that I then never followed up on here’s the deal. Yeah, exactly. There are like little, there are actually four or five people that I would like to [00:30:00] call or message and just be like, I just want to explain something because I feel really bad that I kind of disappeared on that after bringing it up.

[00:30:06] And I kind of understand why now.

[00:30:08] Brett: When Elle got diagnosed as autistic, uh, at like, after hearing about some of her like previous relationships and stuff, I kind of wanted her to like, do like a, Hey, so you remember how this relationship ended because of this or that. And it turns out, turns out I’m autistic. But so the reason that I always, I will always push to have the mental health corner in this show is because it has become, it has been told to me so many times that people benefits so greatly from hearing other people talk about mental illness.

[00:30:45] Uh, whether it’s a particular mental illness they have, which is where it’s most helpful, or just about mental illness in general, and just talking about it and being able to, uh, to lay out like here’s, what’s going on for me. [00:31:00] And here’s how it affects my wife like that. That is what allows other people to have the conversation.

[00:31:06] And it never dawned on me. Cause I’m just, I’m just fucking honest. Like I’ll,

[00:31:10] Christina: Yeah.

[00:31:11] Brett: I’ll tell you exactly what’s going on when you ask and I’ve never thought twice about it, but I get so many, just little like emails and DMS that are just like, thank you so much for talking about this. It, it has made a big difference in my job, in my life, in my relationship.

[00:31:30] And I love that and I want to keep doing that.

[00:31:33] Jeff: The thing that eats my soul about it is that I know that I have had, I have worked in workplaces where if I were to talk about this, it would not impact my experience, but that. if any of my colleagues who were women or people of color talked about it, and I’m not, I mean, I’m, I can not be more serious and more confident in saying this that it would impact.

[00:31:56] Profoundly in terms of how they were treated, how they were. And so [00:32:00] that’s another thing about, you know, we talk about sort of normalizing it, but like it’s only sort of normalizing it in a corner of, of, of mental health

[00:32:08] Christina: Well, well, it is, and it’s not, I think, I think that you’re right, that it would be different 100%, but I also think that the more, um, awareness and the more examples we have out there, the less, it is likely to be able to treat people differently for those things. And I say that as, as, as a woman, I’m not a person of color, obviously, and I have a lot of other privileges, but I’ve been very open about the fact that I suffer from depression and anxiety for basically as long as I’ve been a quote unquote public figure.

[00:32:37] Um, and, and so, um, and, and that doesn’t mean that there aren’t situations where I haven’t had people not be understanding and where I, I couldn’t, I can’t conceive, uh, places where people might judge me in certain ways. Cause I certainly can. Um, and, and that, that’s not to say my experience would be the same for everyone.

[00:32:56] I still think that even though you’re right, that you being public [00:33:00] is, can be received very differently from other people. I still think that the more people who discuss it, period, like, you know, um, what, what, what’s the phrase like, like all, um, tides raise

[00:33:12] Brett: tide, rising tide.

[00:33:14] Christina: lift all ships. Yeah.

[00:33:16] It’s

[00:33:16] Brett: Something like that.

[00:33:17] Jeff: yeah. Yeah. Right,

[00:33:18] Christina: And I think there’s truth to that. Right. I think that, that doesn’t mean that it’ll happen the same way, but it does mean cause there are still differences in how we even perceive, um, like things like autism, uh, between genders, um, and, and people from different backgrounds. Um, and, and we don’t know on this podcast, we don’t talk about the socioeconomic and class differences in mental illness, uh, which are very vast, you know, and, and we’re all coming at this from like a very certain point of view, but I still think that having the discussion period is good for everyone.

[00:33:54] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. What about you, [00:34:00] Brett? How are you doing.

[00:34:01] Brett: Well, speaking of bipolar since switching to Vyvanse, what two to three months ago, I have not had a single manic episode. And historically when I go this long, without a manic episode, I get bored and, and I missed the mania and I missed the, the all night coding binges and the 20 pushes to a get hub repository.

[00:34:27] And. Uh, this time I’m actually pretty grateful. And, um, I think I’m finally at a point where I can recognize that my overall productivity, um, my relationships and, uh, my general outlook on life are a lot more sustainable if I’m not swinging I’m manic and depressed. And, um, I’m actually really grateful to have found a med combination that has me stable for so long.[00:35:00]

[00:35:00] I’m sure. Three months so long, but it does, it does feel like a long time based on the last few years of my life. And, uh, um, so I’m stable. I’m getting shit done. I’m, I’m surprisingly productive at work. Um, like kind of nailing my job right now, which it feels good. I’m great. But. The reason I wanted to go last and thank you for letting me go last is that today I got this huge boost.

[00:35:33] Uh, I listened to do by Friday Alex Cox show with Merlin Mann, um, and their last episode, their challenge, uh, every week they do a challenge and theirs was to do something new with bunch, uh, which is an app I wrote and it took them 45 minutes into the episode to get to the challenge part. But, oh my God, they were a few civilly [00:36:00] flattering of me.

[00:36:02] And just listening to, it was like such a, uh, an ego boost. Like I felt warm and fuzzy cause they were just like, he’s so smart. I love all these things he does. And they, and they knew what they were talking about. They were like listing my other projects, talking about things like the markdown service tools and kind of like, you know, lesser known stuff that I’ve done.

[00:36:24] Jeff: Some of the early hits

[00:36:25] Brett: Yeah,

[00:36:28] Christina: They, they, they, they knew you

[00:36:29] Brett: like, I like his, I like his early stuff. Yeah. Um, but no, it felt, it felt really good. It was, it was really sweet,

[00:36:38] Christina: that’s awesome. And Alex was such a great guest. I was so glad that they were able to join

[00:36:42] Brett: so. Okay. And, um, I don’t mean to out Alex or anything, but I told them that I could see them becoming a regular guest and they told me in private, but I’m going to share it. They told me that it was the [00:37:00] most fun they’ve had guesting on a podcast in a long time and that they would be happy to happy to come back.

[00:37:09] Jeff: hospitality hosts. We’re such good hosts, Right,

[00:37:11] Brett: Yeah. right.

[00:37:12] Jeff: now? That was a lovely, lovely conversation.

[00:37:14] Brett: I’m just going to slay it. We’re going to have Alex back Alex back again. And

[00:37:19] Jeff: to be what happened with me? And eventually we’ll have like 15 hosts in this like video thing. Be like,

[00:37:25] Brett: How

[00:37:25] Jeff: if I could just, if I could, if I could just.

[00:37:27] Christina: We have three hosts.

[00:37:29] Brett: Is three, is three a good number or should we, should we eventually expand and have five hosts?

[00:37:36] Christina: think, I think three is a good number, but I liked the idea of having like frequent guests.

[00:37:41] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:37:41] You got, you all do three really well over there at rocket

[00:37:45] Christina: Thank you. Thank you. Well, we started with three, which I think, um, uh, makes it easier, but I also feel like you’ve like come into our, our, our triad, our throttle, if it w if you will. Yeah.

[00:37:55] Jeff: Oh man.

[00:37:56] Brett: Jeff, just slate in here. He

[00:37:58] Jeff: I love it. I love it. I always, [00:38:00] you know, always wanted to be on a podcast, but didn’t want to start one,

[00:38:03] Christina: see, this is the perfect thing. This is the perfect thing. You, you didn’t have to do any, any of that stuff. We were just like, just please join, join, join our throttle. Um,

[00:38:10] Jeff: right. Throw up. Well,

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[00:39:48] House Purse Update

[00:39:48] Brett: So I have a, I have a question. Hey Jeff, do you have any updates on the house?

[00:39:55] Jeff: oh, so funny. Thank you for asking. That’s just amazing. [00:40:00] You asked. Um, so the other day we had a bad storm here. I’m sure you had it to Brett, Brett, south of Minneapolis. And sometimes you get the butt end of the storm, the worst, usually the worst end of the storm. Right. And yeah, we got this storm and for the first time, I mean, we moved back here from New York, like 2007.

[00:40:21] And for the first time I can remember there were tornado sirens and, and the power went out and, and guess what I had in The house purse.

[00:40:30] had a headline. Because I’m insane. And then next to the house, I had an emergency radio where I could just turn on with no internet or anything. Just turn on, you know, national public radio or Minnesota public radio here.

[00:40:45] This is actually after the tearing, I gave Minnesota public radio. Let me just say that Tom cran, the afternoon host and Paul Huttner, the weather, the weather folk, uh, just so [00:41:00] fantastic and emergency. And so I was able to really just listen to them, put them on a radio and listen, had a headlamp for going around the house, looking for things.

[00:41:07] And I thought this house purse is really maturing. I want to get to the point where we have a house purse getaway, but I’m not ready yet. I’m not ready yet. I’m willing to use my, kind of the sponsor money

[00:41:20] Brett: Like, are you talking, are you talking about a fully stocked house

[00:41:23] Jeff: I’m talking about a partially stocked house.

[00:41:26] Brett: Because everyone’s going to, everyone’s going to have like a personal requirement

[00:41:30] Jeff: No most people are not going to put a fucking headlamp in an emergency radio in theirs. And that is the bipolar speaking.

[00:41:37] Brett: Dude. I, I have, I have battery operated, headlamps lanterns and flashlights all over the house. Um, I have been through enough power outages, which is not to say a lot of power outages, but enough to convince me that having handy light sources all over the place is worthwhile

[00:41:58] Jeff: Oh man. And you, you know, [00:42:00] it is actually easy to forget that because I have all these flashlights and stuff, but like, damn if I could find them all, but I’d forgotten that I buried a headlamp in my house purse.

[00:42:08] Brett: right over here in the window to my office. There

[00:42:11] Jeff: a rifle.

[00:42:12] Brett: there is a solar powered flashlight charging constantly in the window. Uh, yeah. Um, I am ready for the power to go out and I have these led lanterns that like. Pull up on them and they cast light in every direction and then they have like hangers and a magnets.

[00:42:33] You can stick them to things.

[00:42:35] Jeff: That’s awesome.

[00:42:36] Brett: They’re awesome. Yeah.

[00:42:37] Jeff: Yeah. I have, I have like a prepper prepper sort of inclinations, but I try to put them to good use. So like for instance, after George Floyd was murdered, um, there were, of course all these protests here and around the world. Uh, And here, one of the markers of that time was that there were rumors going around that even our governor was [00:43:00] propagating that white nationalists who were in town and they were in town.

[00:43:03] Uh, we’re putting, um, incendiary devices in our alleys in south Minneapolis. And people were all of a sudden finding them when in reality, everything, someone found was not that, but like our governor was on TV, addressing the city of Minneapolis, saying, we want you to pull in your garbage cans and water down your fences. Right. Like, and when I got to the point where I realized we had not only organized the neighborhood watch, like most neighborhoods in south Minneapolis had, but we had, um, been hosing down our fences. I was like, I don’t think it’s ridiculous anymore to get a generator and to get an emergency radio cause this like everything else about that year 2020 is bananas.

[00:43:41] Um, not to take in any way away from George Floyd’s murder. It was, it was just one of those things where it like made me think more like a prepper and one of the directions I went in. So once Dante right was killed, Um,

[00:43:54] and we knew, and the protest started Right.

[00:43:56] away and it was gonna be every night. And the police were being really, really harsh with tear [00:44:00] gas.

[00:44:00] Um, I, I knew like, oh, I know how to go to hardware stores and buy good, like respirators. Cause I don’t know, I’ve never talked about this on the show, but I have a workshop and I make stuff and I weld and like it’s a whole like secret life I have. Um, and so I decided to drive around the day. After Dante Ray was killed to all the hardware stores and get the good respirators that I could then give to, um, someone who would bring them to the protest.

[00:44:24] So I took donations and then sure enough, someone who, a friend of mine who was working as like a, a medic at the protest came by, I laid it all out. Like it was a bond movie, all these different respirators and everything else. She gathered them all up and brought them down to the protest. And I was like, this is prepping.

[00:44:41] I can get behind.

[00:44:42] Brett: Yeah.

[00:44:42] Jeff: It also helps me feel useful. Cause I’m not, I don’t go to protest so much anymore. Um, and, and those kinds, and it’s, it’s due to some just really bad experiences I’ve had around, um, riot police and whatever else. So it’s just better for me to stay away. [00:45:00] Um, but it’s wonderful to be able to help people.

[00:45:03] Brett: Kristina. Have we ever talked about Jeff cyber duck on this show?

[00:45:07] Christina: No, I don’t think we have, but I.

[00:45:09] Brett: a topic

[00:45:10] for

[00:45:11] Christina: going to say that I was going to say that definitely sounds like a future topic. Cause I wanna, I want to hear

[00:45:15] Jeff: it is a future topic. Cause I have to figure out if I’m in a resurrected or not.

[00:45:18] Brett: It’s so cool.

[00:45:19] Christina: Yeah, I’ve been, um, I do too. I’ve been, so this, um, a company that we’ve talked about before framework, uh, computer who makes like very repairable computers, they’re now selling just the motherboard of their product. But the way that it works is that it basically like people, you can use it, it’s designed to work without a screen and stuff.

[00:45:41] And a lot of people are building cyber decks and other custom DIY projects with it. And, and so, um, that I would love to hear about your cyber duck

[00:45:51] Jeff: Wait, do. you have the framework

[00:45:53] Christina: I do.

[00:45:54] Christina Tech Talk

[00:45:54] Jeff: Oh, damn it. Can we do a, can we do. a Christina tech talk for a minute because I want to hear about the framework and I [00:46:00] want to hear about the play date.

[00:46:01] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Do do, are you good with that?

[00:46:04] Brett: am. We need to save time for a short grab attitude and we’re at 45. So I would say you guys got 10 minutes. Let’s do a Christina tech dot.

[00:46:14] Jeff: All right.

[00:46:15] Christina: All right. So, uh, what do you want to know?

[00:46:18] Jeff: I want you to say to the framework laptop is this sort of modular, right? It’s a modular laptop, um, that, uh, you can buy in. What, like, tell me about yours.

[00:46:28] Christina: Yeah. So it’s a modular laptop. Um, you can basically get it either kind of pre-configured and assembled, or you can get it more, all the cars. So I got the DIY version, which included like an 11 gin, um, uh, uh, Intel processor. And then I added, um, uh, Ram and, um, an SSD. I got it from them, but then I put everything together.

[00:46:49] The, the wifi card I wanted. And, um, and then you can choose, they have the, it has Thunderbolt for, and so what it does is it uses those, uh, Thunderbolt for, [00:47:00] uh, slots and a really creative way where it creates these USBC modules that could be for like a USB port or, um, like a, a small, um, kind of like a USB, um, uh, three.one SSD or an HTMI or display port or USB C just kind of like whatever you want.

[00:47:20] Um, but the really great thing with it is that it is incredibly repairable. Like it comes with a screwdriver, you can open it up. You’re just, it’s designed, you know, like if you get the, the DIY model it’s designed where you’re going to put the components, whether you buy them from them or not, you’re going to put it together.

[00:47:36] Um, I think at this point they do pre-assemble the wifi card. Um, if you buy the wifi card from them, because that is a little bit of a bitch to get installed with the way that the antennas are positioned. I ran into that issue. So there’s a number of other people and they were like, okay, we will pre-install these.

[00:47:55] Um, but everything else, um, you know, like it’s one of these things where it’s just [00:48:00] five screws on the back, comes with a screen, or like I said, the keyboard, um, pops out and then you have access to the entire main board stuff. And so every part of it is repairable. Like, you can replace the screen if that breaks, you’re gonna place the battery.

[00:48:16] You know, they sell the parts, which is really nice. And then the idea too, is that, um, over time they would be able to sell like you a new main board that could go in the same chassis, um, that you’ve had beforehand. So it wouldn’t be like, okay, I have to get rid of every other aspect of my laptop if I just wanted to upgrade the processor for instance.

[00:48:35] So I was, when I first heard about this company, um, I was really intrigued and I really liked the idea, but I was like, I’ve seen this movie before. It almost never works out. In

[00:48:47] Jeff: Oh like the novena, the novena bunny Hawaiians thing, right?

[00:48:52] Christina: Yeah. And, and, you know, Google tried to do kind of a modular phone thing. Like it just, it’s never worked out this.

[00:48:58] I have to give them a mince [00:49:00] credit for a gen one. It completely delivered on everything they promised and they continue to kind of be innovative. And so. I love mine. Like I bought a $2,000 Dell, um, windows, laptop, cause I needed at the time I needed a windows laptop at work and I returned it for the framework, which was about the same amount of money.

[00:49:19] And I, I I’ve been, I’ve had it since, uh, I guess like September and I’m so happy with it. And, and I, I also really love their mission. Like they put the, um, the whole like kind of schematics and stuff up on GitHub and they make the full like, like at least like the set that you would, um, like the design stuff and the things that you could print out for PCB on GitHub, if you want to get the actual repair schematics, I think there are some weird things with that, about it being fully available, but they’ll give it to any repair shop, um, for, for people to do stuff.

[00:49:49] And they have a pretty active community of tinkers and whatnot. They, they are actively working on their Linux support and stuff like it’s it’s good shit. So I’m, I [00:50:00] love it. And I’m a very, very improv.

[00:50:02] Jeff: I appreciate the spirit of it so much too. Especially having recently, we talked about, uh, I bought my Mac book and just like kind of laughing at myself slash crying at the fact that part of my attraction to this computer was that they had added a couple of ports back. Right.

[00:50:19] Christina: Well, that was the thing, right. Is as I got, I got the, I got my 14 inch in one, like not long after I got the framework and there’s similar in size, but the approach is so different, but it’s so funny. Cause like on my framework I have like a one terabyte, like three.one SSD. And one of the things I have two USB C ports, one USBA.

[00:50:37] But I also have like in my bag I have like a, an HTMI connector. Um,

[00:50:42] Jeff: just swap it out.

[00:50:43] Christina: You can just swap it out and, and, and so it’s so nice to be able to do that. I mean, could you do dongles? Sure. But like this way, if I know that I’m going to be going someplace where I need to connect something to an HTMI.

[00:50:54] I can just use that without having to do anything else. Um, plus the S the one, my one complaint, [00:51:00] like from a spec perspective, I wish the screen were slightly higher resolution. It’s a, it’s a great three by two screen. And I wish it were 3000 by 2000, but like, they don’t make many of those screens anymore anyway.

[00:51:11] And it’s still, um, you know, especially with the way that windows does their scaling. Very, very usable. So I I’m a big fan.

[00:51:20] Jeff: Awesome. Okay. So I want to just stay on that. Brett, do you have any questions?

[00:51:23] Brett: I, well, I have, I have a couple hardware things I want to talk about too. Um, but I can save them. Cause I know you have questions about the.

[00:51:34] Jeff: And we can move the. play date the next week. If you have stuff

[00:51:36] Brett: Well, let me, I can make this quick, first of all. So I have, I have the thunder BL uh, hub from OWC Thunderbolt for hub. That gives you three additional Thunderbolt ports, but it runs warm. And my kitten loves to curl up on it, which unplugs my other, my like Thunderbolt four devices. I found out [00:52:00] last week that, and I’m going to hold this up and then describe it.

[00:52:03] But OWC sells these things called cling ons that they’re a compression fitting for a Thunderbolt for a cable, with a 3m adhesive on the other side. So you can just stick it to the port

[00:52:19] Christina: Oh.

[00:52:20] Brett: keeps it from pulling out and with OWC devices, there’s a hole above every Thunderbolt. Uh, Thunderbolt for a port that you can screw this into for a completely permanent fixture.

[00:52:36] And it, like, it takes some work to get the Thunderball for cable into these things. So, you know, it’s not going to pull out. It is, it’s a beautiful solution.

[00:52:46] Jeff: So you have the thumber Thunderbolt for

[00:52:48] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Which is one of my other hardware points that I definitely will save for next week or another week is a month before the predicted ship date.

[00:52:59] I received [00:53:00] my studio, my Mac studio last week

[00:53:03] Christina: nice.

[00:53:04] Brett: and holy shit, let me to summarize a test suite that previously took two minutes to run. Now takes about 30 seconds. Um, it’s that much faster than my M one, many, uh,

[00:53:20] Jeff: Wow.

[00:53:21] Brett: On the OWC topic I got, uh, I’m going to, it’ll be in the show notes. I forget the name of the enclosure, but it’s just an enclosure for SSD cards.

[00:53:32] And I put two, two terabyte, N M E S S D cards into it, and then set it up as a raid one, four terabyte drive. And the thing gets 1300 megabyte, right? Read and write

[00:53:50] Christina: She’s as crazy.

[00:53:51] Brett: It is the fastest SSE tribe I have ever had. And honestly it costs less than buying [00:54:00] like external self-enclosed SSDs, uh, of the same size.

[00:54:06] And it is a very cost effective way to add some very fast storage to your machine. Four terabytes at 1300 megabyte writes speeds. It’s insane. Anyway.

[00:54:19] Christina: That’s ridiculous.

[00:54:20] Brett: Anyway, I’m done. Now we’ll talk about the studio another

[00:54:23] Christina: Yeah, we can talk about that next week. And I mean, um, if, uh, we won’t want to talk about the, the, we can talk about the play date more in depth in another week, too, but just to give you kind of, I got mine because I haven’t had a ton of time to spend with it, but I got it on Friday and I love it.

[00:54:37] Brett: is a play date? I’m out of loop on this

[00:54:39] Christina: Okay. So the play date is, um, a handheld little mini console, retro console type of thing, that panic

[00:54:46] Brett: oh, I’ll get, I did it with the little crank

[00:54:48] Christina: Yeah, the panic. So it was panic and teenage engineering. And I have the, they announced this in 2019, and I saw it at X and used it at XO XO in 2019. And because of COVID [00:55:00] and delays, then they had like a battery problem.

[00:55:01] Like it’s been a process getting it out. Um, the downside with it, it’s like $180. It’s for us, it’s for people like me and Jeff. And to a lesser extent, you Brett, like you would love some of the aspects of it, but I don’t think you’re enough of a game person to really be into it. But for people like, people are like, oh, this, this cost, you know, way too much and whatnot.

[00:55:23] I’m like, it’s not for you. It’s for people who have disposable income and like indie kind of personal devices and like the concept of being able to have like a very cute little. Game machine that you can build your own games for. That has, it has a really great, uh, kind of, uh, ink similar to that kind of scream.

[00:55:41] So it’s gets really good battery life. And the crank is not just a gimmick. Like it’s actually a really interesting, um, uh, like UI thing for games. Yeah. Controller for the games. And, um, uh, you can write games in Lua and, um, I think they have like a, a C or C plus plus, um, [00:56:00] a way you can write games too, but, but they have like a, a, a game engine.

[00:56:03] And, um, I got mine finally last week and it’s, it’s adorable and it’s so fun. And I so proud of the panic team. We should actually see if we could get maybe somebody from panic on to talk about it.

[00:56:17] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:56:18] that would be amazing. I just want to play with one first panic.

[00:56:22] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. This

[00:56:23] Brett: some review

[00:56:24] Jeff: I can’t, if I buy one now I don’t get it until next year.

[00:56:27] Christina: I was going to say, this is the problem is that it’s, it’s a small kind of, um, device. Um, although I think I’m going to be at max socks. If you’re at max stock chef, I will bring wine.

[00:56:36] Brett: Jeff, you should come to max sock. I want, I want overtired. Max stock is July 23rd, I think 24th. Oh fuck you,

[00:56:47] Jeff: Fuck you.

[00:56:49] Christina: Well, all right. We will find a time at some point to meet up. We will have like an overtired comp or something. Coffee comp. There we go. Coffee comp. Um,

[00:56:57] Brett: Do, do you think you’re coming to max sock?[00:57:00]

[00:57:00] Christina: I think I am. Yeah,

[00:57:01] Brett: Oh my God. That’s awesome. Aaron.

[00:57:03] Jeff: now I’m sad.

[00:57:04] Brett: Aaron from, from previous episodes of overtired, uh, may also be presenting at max

[00:57:11] Christina: that would be

[00:57:11] Brett: And yeah, I’m super psyched this year. I’m not presenting, I wanted a year off and that’s why I, I got like other people to pitch talks.

[00:57:23] Uh, I was like, I’m gonna, I’m going to give up my spot. Here are some other people I think would be really great presenters. And that included you, Christina. I don’t know if you plan to present or

[00:57:34] Christina: No, I still need, I still need to like, get back with them, but I I’m, I definitely am planning on going. So, um, so, and maybe I’ll talk to you, but yeah, I, um, that, that would be really fun, but we can, we will find a way Jeff, for, for us to get you your hands on one.

[00:57:48] Brett: maybe we can get a Mac stock discount for over-tired listeners. I will talk to Mike and

[00:57:54] Christina: Yeah. Talk to them. That would be really cool.

[00:57:58] Jeff: play date. I was going over it with my, [00:58:00] both of my teenage sons are vintage console collectors. And in fact, my eldest is home sick from school, with COVID symptoms, and he’s downstairs working on a turbo 3 86 PC right now,

[00:58:12] Christina: Oh my God. Your, your

[00:58:14] Jeff: naturally naturally with a doom CD-ROM in hand. Um,

[00:58:18] Christina: are honestly, you’re the coolest dad and your kids are so cool. There’s also, I have to say I haven’t played with it yet. Um, uh, no pun intended, but on, on GitHub, somebody has put like a GameBoy emulator for the

[00:58:28] Jeff: I saw that.

[00:58:29] Christina: And, and so I have like plans, like I’m actually, at this point, we’ll talk more about the play date and future, uh, shows.

[00:58:35] I wanna hear about the back studio, but I have plans of actually trying to see if I can like, make work content around this

[00:58:41] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:58:42] Christina: because I’m like, there’s some really cool projects and this is, um, it’s just, it’s, it’s neat. It’s, it’s, it’s fun. It’s just like, and it’s, it’s panic who I have had a love affair with for as long as I can remember.

[00:58:55] And, and, um, I’m really proud of them for getting it out the door and stuff.

[00:58:59] Jeff: That’s [00:59:00] awesome. Love it. Thanks for talking about it.

[00:59:02] Christina: No, prob.

[00:59:04] GrAPPtitude

[00:59:04] Jeff: Well, gratitude, the unanimous gratitude.

[00:59:06] Brett: Yes. So, so we were comparing notes before the show about what we were all picking for gratitude. And Christina said she was excited about hers, and I said, it’s not bike. Is it? Um, and she said, yes. And then Jeff was like, oh my God, no, that was mine. So we have a three way gratitude this week. Um, uh, Jesse Gross, Jean creator of task paper.

[00:59:35] Just put out a brand new app called bike, and it is an outliner that works with an open format. It’s HTML based. It can import and export OPM L and plain text. And it gives you keyboard shortcuts for editing and navigating around your outline. It even you like, you can hit escape and go into outline, edit mode, [01:00:00] which lets you use shortcuts for expanding and closing and focusing on nodes in your outline.

[01:00:08] And it is just a bare bones. Super elegant. Outliner, and I’m super impressed with it. It’s great text editing features. It has one of my favorite shortcuts that some markdown editors have where you can hold down command and option and hit up the up arrow key and, and progressively expand your selection to word and then sentence, and then paragraph and then like block and then entire document.

[01:00:40] And that is just that kind of attention to detail is what makes me love, uh, stuff that Jesse Gross gene makes. He is a plain text hero. And this is an awesome app. So I will let you guys say what you enjoy about it.

[01:00:57] Jeff: Go ahead, Christina.

[01:00:58] Christina: Yeah. So I just found out about this this [01:01:00] morning and, uh, as we’re recording this, so the day that it was released and I immediately looked at the video and I bought it before I even tried it out, um, just based on like the video, I was like, I was like, I’m in. And just a little bit of time I’ve spent with it.

[01:01:12] I am not a huge outliner. Um, but I liked the ideas of outlining. Um, and the way that this approach is really speaks to me a lot more than something like Omni outliner, which I’ve just, even though I really liked the Omni group’s products, I just, I’ve never been able to really wrap my mind around that.

[01:01:28] What I also appreciate about it is that it has its own file format, but it also supports open format. So you can export an OML, which means if you’re using like any kind of like the Dave Weiner or some of the other like older school, like outliners, you can do that

[01:01:41] Brett: Or, or any, all the mind mapping apps and like mark two and multi-modal markdown composer. Oh, PML is a great transport format.

[01:01:50] Christina: Yeah. And I really appreciate that. Um, and it’s just, it’s fast. Like, that’s the biggest thing that, that guy was, I was on the call this, um, earlier, uh, before we were recording [01:02:00] and I was using it for, um, my notes more than like a text editor, because a lot of times an outliner is perfect for that, because it’s really easy to have different section blocks and different things.

[01:02:08] Do you want to cover, at least for me? And I was just like, oh, this is so quick and editing. This is really easy. So I’m, I’m so far like big, huge fan. And in like you, um, H his past apps have been really, really good. I think I got an email cause I bought like right room or something or tasky for many years ago.

[01:02:27] I don’t know. But I saw the email and it was one of those things I, when I saw it was like from hog bay software, I was like, huh, okay. I’ll actually click on this because

[01:02:36] Jeff: once every seven years. So let’s do it.

[01:02:40] Brett: I will interject when I was talking about keyboard shortcuts, it also implements text mates, command return, and command shift return from the middle of a line, you can hit command return to insert a new line or command shift return to insert, uh, a node above the current [01:03:00] node, which is perfect. Cause that’s, that’s like instinctive for me anyways,

[01:03:04] Christina: yes. Oh my God. That’s a really great.

[01:03:07] Jeff: What Jesse makes that I love so much. I was a user of Right.

[01:03:11] room in the day. I was a big user of folding texts, which is sort of the daddy of this app, um, bike. And I use task paper daily. What, what Jessie does for me is just make apps that like, there is zero obstacle between me needing to write something down and me writing it down in one of his apps.

[01:03:34] And when folding texts was a thing, I mean, you could still use it, but like when it was the thing, I used it for journalism. Um, it just, cause it was just something I could, like you said, taking notes, Christina, you could just move through it so quickly and you could just feel so kind of agile, not to confuse that with the programming bro thing, but like you could, you could be so agile moving through a nimble, moving through any of those apps.

[01:03:57] He just makes these apps that you can just go [01:04:00] like boom, and your brain can just release. And I’m So grateful for that. They’re fun playgrounds and they have great communities. Usually. I mean, I still remember I was among the mourners who he had to kind of console by saying, look, there will be a follow-up to folding text, but it’s going to take some time and it took years and I don’t mind, I’ve got no problem with that.

[01:04:22] And here it is, and it looks beautiful. So it’s a fun day.

[01:04:25] Brett: his roadmap for bike does include a plugin architecture. Uh, which was part of what made folding texts beautiful was it sucks sensibility. Um, and, and apparently that is planned for bike to have some sort of, probably not to the extent that folding texts was extensible. Um, but to have a plugin architecture, so you can extend, uh, uh, bikes capabilities, but honestly, like for, for creating an outline, the only outliner I’ve [01:05:00] ever truly appreciated before this was tree.

[01:05:03] I don’t know if you guys ever saw that, but it was like, it was an outliner, but it was horizontal and it felt like you were working in a mind. Uh, and my brain just attached very easily to a horizontal outline. Um, this outliner is I love it because it’s simple. Like I’m, I’m, the outliner is an amazing application, but it is it’s complex.

[01:05:31] And you have to put more thought into an outline than I want to. And this is super simple and it can in one click export to a format that you can paste right into say my node, or I thought, and, and expand on something as a mind map, which is not for everybody, but it’s the way my brain works. And to be able to spit ideas out very quickly [01:06:00] in a very simplistic, very keyboard friendly editor, and then port it as either plain text or as an OPL file straight into.

[01:06:11] Any mind map application is it’s it’s what did the kids say? It’s tits

[01:06:17] Christina: It’s lit

[01:06:18] Jeff: That’s what

[01:06:19] Brett: lit. It’s fire. It’s fire emoji.

[01:06:22] Jeff: slaps.

[01:06:23] Christina: it slaps. There you go. At slaps.

[01:06:25] Jeff: me, trust the

[01:06:27] Christina: I was going to say, I was going to say, I’m going to actually trust you on this. No, I was gonna say I was like, actually like it slapped. So I was going to say again, I’m going to, I’m gonna go, go with Jeff on this.

[01:06:35] Brett: I think, I think it’s it’s. It’s rad. It’s boss. It’s boss. Okay. I’m 20 years behind.

[01:06:42] Jeff: the first time one of my kids said it’s slept on me. I went, Okay.

[01:06:46] So, intuitively I think I know what that means, but just picturing a slap on the ass and I don’t know what to tell you. I think that’s my generation.

[01:06:53] Christina: and it, it it’s, it’s like when I, um, tweeted something about how a certain logo, um, fucked and, uh, [01:07:00] uh, I had, um, I had someone very high up in the corporate structure, reached out to me and wanted to just confirm that that Fox was a good thing. And I was like, yes, I, yes. Fox is a good thing.

[01:07:11] Jeff: That’s cool, man.

[01:07:13] Christina: I promise you.

[01:07:13] It’s good.

[01:07:15] Brett: All right. Well, I feel like that that’s a good, that’s a good wrap up to a show.

[01:07:21] Christina: Yeah.

[01:07:22] Brett: It was a good show. We didn’t, we didn’t get to almost two thirds of what we had on the list.

[01:07:28] Jeff: nice. When that grows.

[01:07:29] Brett: it really, it was a very organic show. like we gardened this show and it just grew.

[01:07:35] Jeff: And it’s coming to a slow, slow, and isn’t it. We’re crawling to

[01:07:40] Brett: Well, I like to, I like to do this. I like to do this little debrief before we sign off.

[01:07:45] Jeff: Um,

[01:07:46] Brett: Just, uh, just all agree on whether it was a good or a bad show. And I, I say it was a pretty good show.

[01:07:53] Jeff: good. That’s good. A lot of fun

[01:07:56] Brett: All right. You guys get some sleep?

[01:07:58] Jeff: sleep,

[01:07:58] Christina: get some sleep. [01:08:00]

[01:08:00] Jeff: Bye.