Weirdly, A Sports Episode

[00:00:00] Introduction and Host Welcome

[00:00:00]

[00:00:02] Brett: Hey, you’re listening to Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren. Jeff is out this week, but filling in, we have Jay Miller. Welcome to the show, Jay.

[00:00:15] Jay: What’s up? It’s always good to be here. Also, sorry if I sound not like me. I’ve been, I’ve been conferencing a lot lately. So,

[00:00:24] Christina: The voice, the voice goes out a little

[00:00:25] Brett: good. You sound good.

[00:00:27] Jay: the voice is always low.

[00:00:29] Christina’s California Adventures

[00:00:29] Brett: And Christina just got back from California.

[00:00:32] Christina: I did. I did. And I’ll be back in California in a week.

[00:00:37] Brett: That’s a lot of California.

[00:00:38] Jay: That sounds like my July.

[00:00:41] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, this, this was not like an intended thing. Like, Christina thought that she was going to be in California. Last week, and then was asked to, well, thought that the ask was to be in California for maybe a day or two next week.

[00:00:56] Christina: Turns out, no, I misinterpreted some things, or maybe some things are [00:01:00] misinterpreted to me. Regardless, I’ll be in San Francisco the week of the 24th through the 28th, so

[00:01:07] Brett: started that in the third person and finished in the first person. That was a,

[00:01:11] Jay: I love it.

[00:01:12] Brett: that was a cool transition.

[00:01:14] Jay: I, um, I made the, the concerted commitment with the job that I’m at to not travel a lot. And then after.

[00:01:21] Travel Plans and Pet Dilemmas

[00:01:21] Jay: Uh, my wife and my daughter are planning a month long trip, um, also to California and I’m staying home to do work. It was like, well, I could probably travel a little bit more. So the, the week of like July 8th, I’m going from New York, from New York to Toronto.

[00:01:43] Jay: I’m back home for two days, then I fly back to New York, and then I’m there for another four more days. I get back, I’m back for a week, and then I fly to London for the Relay event. And I was just like, I did not realize how stupid I was in all of my [00:02:00] bookings.

[00:02:00] Christina: right, right. Yeah, it totally, if you thought about that more, like, you probably would not have, like, gone back and forth between, like, Toronto and and home just to come back to New York,

[00:02:11] Jay: Well, it’s like I have to, I would have to pay And like, our, our company was like, we’ll pay for the event plus a day before and after. So I was like, okay, that’s awesome. But that also means that I like fly home for three days and do nothing. And then like, do I even get my dogs out of like the pet hotel at that point?

[00:02:34] Jay: Or like, do I just leave them in?

[00:02:35] Brett: Of course you do. You gotta see your dogs.

[00:02:39] Jay: I mean, they’re kind of dumb. I love them, but they’re kind of dumb.

[00:02:44] Christina: Well, no, but that is like a hard thing to figure out like yeah Cuz you’re there like just long enough where you’re like, okay It does make sense for me to pick them up, but I’m gonna have to drop them back off Anyway, probably the day before I leave depending on when I’m leaving. So you’re like, okay So is it worth it for 24 [00:03:00] hours, right?

[00:03:00] Christina: Like is it like yeah, that that that That’s a hard calculus.

[00:03:04] Brett: I think it would take me like two weeks to miss my dog. Um, like she’s lovable in short bursts, but Man, like, give me a week away and I’m like, oh, man, I don’t miss that dog.

[00:03:18] Jay: I feel like it’d be cool if I could just do visitation rights. Just like, Hey, can I just go to the pet hotel and be like, Hey, I see you.

[00:03:24] Brett: There you go.

[00:03:25] Jay: look

[00:03:25] Christina: I mean, honestly, I mean, honestly, that would be the best thing. You’d be like, look, I’m going to continue to pay you continuously. But like, I would love to take, can I take the dog out? Can I take him out for a walk?

[00:03:34] Brett: Yeah. You get all, you get all the fun, the visitation. You’re like the, the divorced dad who, who gets to like spoil his kids on weekends and then doesn’t have to do childcare the rest of the week.

[00:03:49] Christina: Mom is so pissed. Mom in this case is, is, is, is the pet hotel. Although the pet hotel is getting

[00:03:54] Jay: they’re getting paid. You’re getting, you’re getting dog support. Like, I feel like

[00:03:57] Christina: to say

[00:03:58] Brett: like alimony. [00:04:00] I’ve never been, I’ve never had kids. I don’t know what I’m talking about.

[00:04:04] Christina: Yeah, I, same, but, but I was gonna say this is, this is gonna be like double alimony, right? This is like double child support.

[00:04:09] Christina: You’re like, oh, mom, you get, you get this and the kids get stuff. So like, actually don’t be as much of a bitch about this, because I promise.

[00:04:16] Jay: of a broken home, it tracks.

[00:04:19] Brett: Oh, wow. I wonder how many people we just offended. Or, or hurt. Happy Father’s Day!

[00:04:26] Christina: Yeah.

[00:04:26] Jay: Yeah.

[00:04:30] Christina: Oh my god. I have to, I have to call, I have to call my dad,

[00:04:33] Brett: Yeah, I remembered, I remembered like an hour before this, I sent my dad a Amazon gift card. Um, which is what I do on stupid holidays like Father’s Day and Mother’s Day. I’ll show up for a birthday.

[00:04:46] Jay: They called me, so I feel like, I feel like that was their hand of like, Oh, I should probably tell them Happy Father’s Day. I

[00:04:54] MHC: Family Visits and Birthday Plans

[00:04:54] Brett: Um, So yeah, if I could start a mental health corner, it’s actually kind of [00:05:00] related. Um, I went to breakfast with my parents, which I haven’t done for like a year because of the whole like religious trauma, complex PTSD thing, and I showed up and they had hidden all of their religious stuff. Uh, they took down like God is love stuff off the wall.

[00:05:21] Brett: They took all the like, uh, they had like Newsmax magazines and stuff. Last time I visited and all of that was hidden. Everything that could trigger me was hidden away and it felt super respectful. And the conversation stayed on like family and work and. Nothing triggering, and it was actually a pretty good visit.

[00:05:42] Brett: We decided we’ll try to do it monthly moving forward instead of weekly. But yeah, I was impressed. Yeah. Um,

[00:05:51] Jay: feel like quarterly would have been my goal. Like, I, I, I love, like, Seeing my parents and then [00:06:00] having that space, like, I mean, this whole move out east was to be like in between my parents and my grandparents. And it was like, great, Thanksgiving comes around, Christmas comes around, birthdays, like

[00:06:13] Brett: you have to, do they show up at your place in between? Do you have to host them?

[00:06:18] Jay: Yeah, which I don’t mind, like, I mean, we have the space now. And like, honestly, the kitchen that we we grabbed, like, the big selling point was the double ovens. So that like, Cooking and doing the big, the big family get togethers is, it’s like, kind of like, you can do it. Um, and then they’ll bring stuff, so that’s always nice.

[00:06:39] Jay: But yeah, instead of people complaining that, oh, it’s a five hour drive, or it’s a flight, it’s like, well, now it’s a two hour drive. And, um, Yeah, and I’ll make that like, I’ll go visit my mom for Mother’s Day or whatever, and then I’ll go up and visit my grandparents for their birthdays, and then, you know, at that point, I’m seeing someone once a quarter, and I’m like, this is good.

[00:06:59] Jay: This [00:07:00] is, this is just enough

[00:07:01] Brett: Yep. That sounds about right. Someday I’m going to get a real house that I can like host people in. Um, I don’t, I would have like a two day limit on anyone visiting. Um, back when I had a house with Aditi, like her parents would come for like a week and that it’s just too much time to share a house with your parents.

[00:07:23] Brett: Um, So like two day, two day, maybe three days on special occasions. But like, I have a birthday coming up in July and I’m trying to organize a birthday party and we can comfortably host like four people at my house and I haven’t had a birthday party in, Um, I was supposed to do a hitchhiker’s themed party for my 42nd, but then COVID happened.

[00:07:50] Brett: And so I just, I haven’t had a party and I really like my birthday. Like, uh, if. If I don’t get enough happy birthday [00:08:00] attention, I get depressed about it. Like, I crave that, like, it’s my special day and I’m not a guy who’s going to be like, it’s my birthday week and everyone has to celebrate me for a whole week, but for one day, one day show up, just say happy birthday.

[00:08:15] Brett: Um, and, and I’m happy. I don’t need gifts. I don’t need any of that. I just need attention. So I’m throwing a party and I’ve invited 25 people. Six of them have confirmed that they are coming, and two maybes, and maybe the rest of my friends just don’t check Facebook that often, or they’re ignoring me, which I get, I get.

[00:08:36] Brett: I invited some people that I know peripherally.

[00:08:39] Christina: No,

[00:08:39] Brett: Yeah, you think so?

[00:08:40] Christina: I think, I think it’s the Facebook thing. You might need to find like an alternate way of inviting them.

[00:08:45] Brett: It’s just the easiest way to put an event together,

[00:08:48] Christina: You’re not wrong. You’re not wrong, but people don’t use Facebook anymore.

[00:08:52] Brett: Yeah,

[00:08:52] Jay: I’m, I’m just incredibly impressed that you have, like, friends that you didn’t meet on the internet.

[00:08:58] Brett: I do. I have [00:09:00] like, I have like 25 people right here in, in town.

[00:09:04] Christina: Yeah, that’s amazing. I have, I, I have 25 people I could invite to my birthday. They are not in Seattle.

[00:09:10] Jay: Yeah, like,

[00:09:12] Brett: I

[00:09:12] Jay: my friends that are local I met on the internet.

[00:09:15] Brett: I considered inviting people from Minneapolis, but I just don’t feel like my birthday is important enough to make that two and a half hour drive. So, you know. Okay, I’m gonna shut up. I, I watched, uh, uh, a guy, a city planner who reviews cities did a thing on YouTube about Minneapolis, and he was really impressed with like the neighborhoods, Dinky Town, Uptown, Sewer, uh, not sewer.

[00:09:46] Brett: What is it called?

[00:09:47] Jay: That’s a lovely

[00:09:48] Brett: it sounds like soot, soot, sewer. Wow, I forgot the name of it. But anyway, um, he was really impressed with that. But downtown, because it’s, because it’s Minnesota, downtown is [00:10:00] all skyways. Um, like you can walk from like downtown to like Target State, Target. Stadium all in Skyways and you can navigate the whole city and never see street level.

[00:10:15] Brett: So a lot of businesses are up on like the second story and it’s like one big strip mall and there’s really no like downtown walkable. It’s kind of a desolate lot of cars. I mean, there’s some bike paths, but anyway, I digress.

[00:10:32] MHC: Jay’s PTSD and Conference Experiences

[00:10:32] Brett: So Jay, how are you doing?

[00:10:34] Jay: Um, I’m, I’m doing better. Um, I had to go back and figure out when was the last time I was here and it was in January. So I was like, okay, what’s happened since January? PTSD is what has happened since January. I’ve had a corporate offsite in Spain, which was great, except for it wasn’t because we were stuck on a like hotel, basically like the [00:11:00] hotel attached to an amusement park.

[00:11:01] Jay: But if like the amusement park was like a discount Six Flags,

[00:11:07] Brett: Okay.

[00:11:07] Jay: And the actual event was planned by the amusement park staff, so they really didn’t want you leaving.

[00:11:15] Christina: Oh no. So you, you, you’re instead of being like at a Disney resort, which could be annoying and frustrating, but at least it’d be a Disney resort. You’re at not even a Six Flags.

[00:11:25] Jay: yeah, I was at like four flags. It was, it was great. Um, but eventually I just said screw that and then I snuck out and then actually went into like Tarragona, Spain and had an amazing time. Um, but the event was You know, your normal startup, corporate, you know, all hands get together. Flashing lights, loud noises, no visual sensitivity or photosensitivity warnings anywhere, the same food for five days.

[00:11:57] Jay: You know, it’s, it’s what you expect. [00:12:00] Um, and yeah, since then I’ve been having these weird like anxiety attacks following like loud noises. And I, I got diagnosed with PTSD a while back, but I. Felt like it was more tied to like trauma and not like tied to bangs or anything. Like I’ve never, I’ve never been in a combat zone.

[00:12:21] Jay: So like, it doesn’t make sense to, to have that. But there, there’s like a level of like, I don’t feel safe here, including with loud noises that have been triggering like really bad panic attacks. And, um, Yeah, that happened this past week at Render. Um, for those that don’t know who are listening, Render Atlanta is like this conference that I think was supposed to be one thing at one point, and then when they learned we can make a ton of money off of this, so now it’s slowly evolved into like South by Southeast.

[00:12:54] Christina: They’re trying.

[00:12:55] Jay: Yeah, that’s how they promote it. So

[00:12:58] Christina: I’m curious what your [00:13:00] take was from the event, because I’ve been the last two or three years, I wasn’t able to be there this year, and yeah, I’m bothered by their attempt to call it a South by Southeast thing, because I’m like, you’re not South by Southwest, you don’t want to draw those comparisons right now, like, you’re not ready for that, like, which,

[00:13:17] Jay: also don’t want to go to South by Southwest.

[00:13:19] Christina: there’s that, but it’s also like, for me, like, it’s just, I’m kind of like, you had this really good thing.

[00:13:24] Christina: You’re not actually ready to be in the conversation of a South by Southwest. You’re not actually there yet as, as an event. People will have, people will have expectations for, for what an event will be, and it’s not that.

[00:13:36] Brett: our, our tourist center tried to make our town slogan keep it weird.

[00:13:41] Christina: Oh

[00:13:41] Brett: I was like, you, you can’t, you, we’re a, we’re a town of

[00:13:45] Jay: It’s already taken.

[00:13:46] Brett: Yeah. It’s a, it’s not, it’s not a comparison that we are, um, safe drawing.

[00:13:52] Jay: Yeah. So like, the, the really good of Render is that everybody that I want to see except for Christina, who wasn’t there [00:14:00] this year, like, is there. Like, it, You have YouTubers, like someone, someone introduced themselves as like, Hi, I am a social media influencer on Instagram. Can I take a picture of your outfit?

[00:14:13] Jay: And I was literally wearing like a company t shirt and like some cargo pants and like some clean, like brand new Adidas. And I was like, I mean, I guess. Like, I don’t, I didn’t, I didn’t think that I dressed up for this, but sure.

[00:14:30] Brett: I would have said Define Influencer.

[00:14:32] Jay: I mean, it’s, whatever.

[00:14:34] Christina: trying to be nice.

[00:14:35] Jay: yeah, if the company is happy and they want to keep paying for me to go to places, then like, you know, as long as it’s on, I have some say in it, then cool.

[00:14:44] Jay: Um, but yeah, no, that was great. Like, I mean, Ashley was there, um, Emily Freeman. Like if you’re in the DevRel space, like all of the major people in DevRel were there, like across all

[00:14:59] Christina: there. [00:15:00] I think like all my, all my friends were there and, and I was with my other friends who were in, you know, San Jose. It was like, it was very hard for me. I was like, I wanna be with all my friends at once. Why do they have to be the same week anyway?

[00:15:12] Jay: and I, and I, I got to, I mean, I had several conversations with like Kelsey Hightower and like so many folks and I, it was, it was one of those things where a lot of people that I have spoken with online and that I look up to and that I talk to on a regular as like in kind of a mentor, mentee relationship with me being the mentee were like there, I got to, I got to let Ashley win her own, like her first pie raffle.

[00:15:39] Jay: So I went to Pie Bar. Um, for those that don’t know, uh, Ashley Willis McNamara. Um, I can never remember which

[00:15:47] Christina: It’s, it’s Will, will, will. Willis. Is Willis. Willis, but it used to be back in America, but Yes, but it’s Willis and she’s the

[00:15:53] Jay: Um, but yeah, she would award, she would like, I think once a month or something, buy a [00:16:00] pie for a random, uh, one of her, her employees. And. Ashley and Christina were two of the people who interviewed me for my role at Microsoft.

[00:16:12] Jay: And I, I had heard about this and one of the interview questions that when she’s like, Oh, do you have any questions for me? I was like, yeah, what pie do you like? Because I had seen this and I had heard about this. So like, you know, we had that conversation. So the last day of render, like I stopped at pie bar in Marietta on the way and like bought her a whole pie.

[00:16:33] Jay: It was like, here. I was like, where are you? And she’s like, Oh, I’m outside the expo. I was like, all right, I’ll be right there. And I show up with like this, like grub hub order. And she’s like, Oh my God, is that a pie? And I was like, it is. It’s a pie.

[00:16:45] Brett: we’re talking about actual edible

[00:16:47] Christina: yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:16:48] Brett: I just assumed, I just assumed we were talking about raspberry

[00:16:51] Christina: No, no, no, no, no. Although

[00:16:53] Jay: this is a physical

[00:16:54] Christina: although Ashley would also love raspberry pies to be clear. She would love those. She has them all over her office, but no,

[00:16:59] Brett: ever buy like [00:17:00] gluten free pies for people?

[00:17:01] Christina: would buy whatever pie they want.

[00:17:03] Brett: Wow.

[00:17:04] Christina: Like, like, I got, like, I got an amazing cherry pie or an apple pie or something, but it was freaking great.

[00:17:08] Christina: Like, she’d get you whatever type you want.

[00:17:10] Brett: That’s awesome.

[00:17:11] Jay: but, but the, you know, the downside of that is this event is incredibly loud. It’s very well marketed and in my opinion, very poorly organized. And that is, that is just someone who spent several years trying to figure out how to put on my own conference and interacting with probably over a hundred conference organizers at this point across multiple like communities.

[00:17:37] Jay: I think all of them would say that this was a poorly organized event. There were like six tracks with five other associative things going on all at the same time. There were talks during lunch, so like people have to choose, am I going to go to this talk or am I going to eat? And Basically, at the end, they were like, well, we [00:18:00] hired really big names to come and give like the closing key, like Shannon Sharp gave the closing keynote.

[00:18:04] Jay: And I like, I was like, this is kind of cool. It also probably costs a ton of money. The speakers didn’t have a green room. The speakers didn’t have water, which I was like, that’s wild. Like the VIP, like they had like a VIP area, which they upcharged for people to be able to go to unless you were a speaker.

[00:18:25] Jay: They were literally just tables. Like there was no, like no drinks, no snacks, like nothing. And I was just like,

[00:18:33] Brett: What were the tables for?

[00:18:35] Jay: I guess if people wanted to like get away and that’s what it seemed like is that you were paying for privacy. And I was like, this feels weird. Um, I don’t, I kind of don’t like that, but at the end I bumped into a friend who’s Dominican and I was like, yo, this is going to sound like kind of racist, but do you love baseball?

[00:18:54] Jay: And he goes, why, because I’m Dominican? And I was like, yes. And he’s like, yes, I absolutely love baseball. [00:19:00] And I was like, how about we blow the keynote and just go to a Braves game instead? And then I proceeded to have like, one of my friends who I’ve known for years, which is why I was okay asking if they like baseball, even though I knew they were Dominican, they probably like baseball.

[00:19:13] Jay: Um, but we went to like, probably one of the best games I’ve been to. And I’ve been to like 15 games in the last. So like, it felt absolutely amazing, and I know that that event was the reason that that happened, but at the same time, like, the event itself just put me in such a bad place, and I had like, I had a couple of PTSD events while I was there, which is like tying it all together.

[00:19:41] Jay: Um, So yeah, like I’m better now now that the events over like me and my daughter hanging out this week we’re just like we’re just chillin my wife is away and Yeah, like I’m in a good spot now, but jeez last last week was It’s horrible.[00:20:00]

[00:20:00] Christina: I’m so sorry to hear that and like and it sucks. I think you’re right Like I I’ve always really enjoyed render, but I felt the same way in terms of the organization to me It’s been one of those things where I’m like, I’m gonna put up with like the lack of Organizing stuff like because the the hallway track and stuff is so important and is so good that like that’s fine for me, but I’m glad to get your experience on that, but also that’s just like, that sucks, especially with your PTSD, you know, getting like triggered and

[00:20:35] Brett: Not feeling safe.

[00:20:36] Christina: not feeling good and not having, not having, you know, like not having like adequate rooms for speakers.

[00:20:42] Christina: Right. Like that to me is, is like a, I can forgive a lot of stuff, but the thing is, is like Shannon Sharpe. You know that he had water, you know what I mean? You know that they, they, they, like, had, like, proper arrangements for him. Um, as they should, to be very clear. Like, he’s, he should absolutely [00:21:00] be given, like, all the things.

[00:21:01] Christina: But, like, you, I don’t know, if you’re going to have a speaker like that there, you’re going to have, like, you need to have a decent VIP experience for all of your speakers,

[00:21:12] Jay: And, and that was kind of like my biggest upset, like upset about the entire just situation was again, having talked to so many organizers, like we’ve had so many conferences in the Python ecosystem that are, that have shut down since COVID. Like, and a lot of it is just due to lack of sponsorship. And it’s not like people are asking for hundreds of thousands of dollars, like, Pi Ohio is a free event that’s like, one day, and it was held at, at Ohio State, now they’re having, they’re having to actually have it in like a different venue.

[00:21:45] Jay: And like, 15, 000 is enough to probably fully fund that event. To like cover its operating costs, and they can’t find sponsors. Like, no one will sponsor, and this event’s been going on for almost a decade. So it’s just [00:22:00] like, It’s wild that, you know, PyCon US struggled with sponsors. You know, PyOhio and these small regional conferences are struggling with sponsors and events like PyTennessee and PyCarolinas and PyColorado have just shut down.

[00:22:14] Jay: And, you know, I’m doing what I can to sponsor some of these events with, you know, Black Python devs and stuff now that we’re a non profit. But, I mean, we have a total operating budget of 20, 000. So like, we would go bankrupt sponsoring like one of these events outside of like what we’re like, what we’re promising them, which is like 600, 700.

[00:22:37] Jay: But even then, like that is going miles for some of these organizers. And then when we look at like, What was the marketing budget for Render? I would have loved for Render to be able to like just sponsor some of these conferences out of their marketing budget and be like, Hey, come to Atlanta. And it would, it would do the thing that these conferences always promised to do, which is like [00:23:00] build the community, build up a healthy ecosystem of diverse developers all over the, you know, all over the U.

[00:23:06] Jay: S. And It’s like, it’s, it’s really, it’s just a money making thing. And that’s where like, to me, I’m okay. I’m okay with them calling themselves, you know, South by Southeast or whatever, because what I think that’ll do is that will remove the idea of this is a technical conference for like developers. And it’s more of, this is an influencer event.

[00:23:28] Christina: Yeah, I mean, if that’s what they want to do, I guess that’s what they need to do. I still feel like, um, I, and maybe it was different this year, but I know like last year, like, and they, and they, even the year before that, like, they’ve tried multiple times to like have additional music and other sorts of content alongside it.

[00:23:41] Christina: And it’s, it has flopped. It has not been good. And so that’s part of the thing where I’m like. You can’t call yourself like this Omni Conference if you’re not like it’s a great meetup time and it’s a great space for people, you know, to get together and like, yeah, if you want to call it an influencer thing, that’s fine.

[00:23:57] Christina: I just feel like you’ve got to be careful. Like South by Southwest [00:24:00] like has like a very like is an actual music festival is an actual film festival is an act, you know what I mean? Like has actual stuff for that. Like, Render does not. So if they want to be on that level and get the money that can go along with that, like, you know, to your, like, I think that they’ve been able to be really successful getting money because it’s been, you know, kind of a, a good place for, for a lot of like, uh, you know, tech people to come and, and, and tech companies to, to come and feel like they can, you know, hopefully, um, You know, like engage with like a community that frankly a lot of tech companies don’t engage with and, and, and all that stuff.

[00:24:39] Christina: Um, but if you’re going to go like into this Omni thing, yeah, if it’s really going to bring in a lot of people. Um, I think you’re right. I think the organization in general probably just has to step up. But I’ve always had a really good time, but the people there are why you go. Um, you know, the, the event itself.

[00:24:56] Christina: Maybe not so much, but it, but it’s disappointing that they didn’t have their shit [00:25:00] together, especially for, for speakers, you know, and that they didn’t have things like quiet spaces and stuff like that, like basic things that conferences who were way smaller do have their shit together on that. Like, that’s always, that, that, that’s always disappointing when there’s

[00:25:14] Jay: that’s it for me.

[00:25:15] Christina: Yeah,

[00:25:17] MHC: Christina’s Week at DubDub and Pixar Visit

[00:25:17] Brett: All right, Christina, how you doing?

[00:25:19] Christina: I’m doing okay. Um, I was in San Jose this week, which was, which was great. So I was at DubDub while I was quote at, I wasn’t really, like, I didn’t get to go to the keynote. Um, but, um, I, I watched that with, with, um, some community members, but I did go to the talk show and I went to a bunch of other, um, kind of evening events and got to meet up with people who I haven’t seen in years and years, which was fantastic.

[00:25:40] Christina: I also got to, um, uh, shout out to Colin Allen who invited me, Command Tab on, um, the various platforms who invited me over to Pixar on Friday. And so I, I went over to Emeryville and I got to see Pixar, um, which I’ve never been to before. And then I actually really coolly, I got to go see Inside Out 2 with, um, the Pixar systems

[00:25:59] Brett: to see that. Don’t [00:26:00] don’t spoil it for

[00:26:01] Christina: no, I’m not

[00:26:01] Brett: but I’m so excited for that movie.

[00:26:03] Christina: I’m not going to spoil anything except to say out there, it’s really, really good. Like, Pixar has needed a hit for a lot of reasons, and I haven’t really liked a lot of the last few Pixar films, if I’m being completely candid. Um, I hadn’t, I hadn’t kept up with anything on Inside Out 2 before I saw it.

[00:26:18] Christina: It’s great. It’s really, really

[00:26:20] Brett: I loved Inside Out 1, and I’m told Inside Out 2 is great for people with anxiety.

[00:26:26] Christina: It definitely is. It definitely is. And I would say it like definitely like you’re not gonna cry the same way you would with like the the first one because it doesn’t have that like little kid kind of thing, but it it um, Uh, the only i’m not spoiling anything, but yeah, it’s great for people. The anxiety thing is a really good.

[00:26:40] Christina: Um, uh, Kind of description of what that stuff is. Um, if you have been a teenage girl before, you are going to have some secondhand embarrassment in moments of it. That’s just a, that’s just a preparation thing. That’s not a spoiler. Um, but no, it’s, it’s, it was really, really good. And it was really cool to watch that with The [00:27:00] Pixar folks, but only enough, Jay, you’ll, you’ll appreciate this.

[00:27:03] Christina: So I’m in Emeryville. I like, we walked from the Pixar campus to the AMC movie theater. I’m, um, a bunch of Pixar people, you know, got tickets and stuff for us. And I was, it was so kind of them to invite me along, like genuinely, like that was one of the highlights, like of my life to like watch a movie with like, a, you know, Theater full of Pixar people.

[00:27:23] Christina: But in that theater, a guy walks up to me and taps me on the shoulder and says, Hey, how are you? And it was Brian Douglas.

[00:27:30] Jay: Oh,

[00:27:31] Christina: Brian Douglas happens, happens to live in the area and happened to be there with his kids. Um, they were in the show. It was, he’s the guy who, um, used to be my boss at GitHub and, and runs Open Sauce.

[00:27:41] Christina: Fantastic guy, but, but, um, but Jay knows him as well.

[00:27:43] Jay: I’ve known Brian for, I’ve known Brian as long as I’ve been in tech.

[00:27:48] Christina: Brian’s fantastic, but it was just the smallest world ever. I’m like, I’m in Emeryville, like of all the places to be, like where I would run into somebody that I know. Yeah, I do too. I do too. It genuinely was like [00:28:00] freaking amazing because I was like, it was this very odd thing. I was explaining to like the, some of my new Pixar friends.

[00:28:05] Christina: I was like, Oh yeah, no, I used, he used to be my boss. Like he, he has his own startup, um, you know, he’s doing great, but it was just a very funny small world. Um, so

[00:28:16] Jay: for that opportunity to surprise Brett, just some random like encounter, like, Hey, I didn’t know that you were in the third floor of somewhere in Minneapolis today.

[00:28:28] Christina: yeah, no, I would love that.

[00:28:30] Brett: I will be, I will be in Minneapolis at a hotel for Aaron’s Black Metal show on the 29th. If you, if you are traveling through Minneapolis, look me up. Or if you live in

[00:28:45] Jay: if the twins are playing. Maybe I’ll like, I’ll go to a baseball

[00:28:49] Brett: after, after Christina is done and we have done a sponsor read, I really want to talk about sports, which is weird for me.

[00:28:58] Christina: no, no, no. [00:29:00] No, I’m just going to finish up. So I had a great week with people. Um, it was really, really great to see folks. I am a little bit stressed about work right now because I have a bunch of stuff that I have to get done in a week. Um, that, um, is, is a whole lot. So I’m about to be under, like, it’s going to be one of those big tests for my ADHD to be like, okay, all right.

[00:29:22] Christina: All right. Hyper focus skill, like come in handy, like save me. Um, So I’m a little bit stressed about that. Um, but, uh, and, and I’m, uh, not super enthused to be leaving town in a week from now for another week, but it, it, it’s okay. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll make it work. But, um, but no, overall, my mental health was good.

[00:29:41] Christina: It was really nice to be around people.

[00:29:43] Balancing Work and Personal Events

[00:29:43] Christina: Like, um, It was, I was able to, unlike being at, I missed being at Render, but unlike being at Render, because I was working during the day, it was one of those nice things where I kind of had like a good separation, you know, between how much you have to be on and whatnot.

[00:29:59] Christina: And I also have to [00:30:00] say selfishly, like, It was really nice being at an event that is not my event because then like the expectations that are on you are different,

[00:30:08] Brett: would be way less stress, I

[00:30:10] Christina: right? Well, and then also that, you know, that I’m not speaking at to that point too, right? And so it kind of reminds me why I do try to put at least one of those things on my calendar a year where it’s like, this is just a thing I’m doing for me that I’m not speaking at, that I don’t have a work obligation to like XOXO will be my next one.

[00:30:27] Christina: And that’s going to be the last XOXO. Um, but like, it’s, it’s nice to just have those things Where you can be around people, but like, there’s not a work obligation. There’s not a speaking obligation. This isn’t a thing that I have to, you know, be on all the time for that. I can just go and enjoy people with, which, um, you know, it’s how normal people attend conferences, but that’s not how, um, you know, uh, we, we attend conferences.

[00:30:51] Christina: So

[00:30:53] Upcoming Speaking Engagements

[00:30:53] Brett: Speaking of, um, I will be speaking at Macstock, a much smaller conference this year, [00:31:00] um, which has an illustrious panel of previous speakers, including Jay Miller. Um, I, uh, I, if you want to go, it’s July 12th through 14th. And if you use the code TTSCOFF, uh, when you buy your tickets, you get like 30 bucks off.

[00:31:19] Brett: Um, which is the, the major cost of MACSOC is the hotel. Um, so if you can get an Airbnb cheap, then go for it, but

[00:31:30] Jay: Like that and maybe a rental car. If you’re Like flying in.

[00:31:35] Brett: yeah. Or taking a train in, which I’m considering doing.

[00:31:39] Sponsor: AeroPress Go Plus

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[00:33:57] Brett: I think it should be done. Like, you should [00:34:00] format it as a spelling bee. And one, one host should say, your word is aeropress. com slash overtired. And I would say aeropress. com slash overtired, A E. And I would spell it out. And I would finish by saying the word again. Problem solved. You’ve said it three times and you spelled it out.

[00:34:17] Brett: And it’s kind of funny.

[00:34:20] The Art of Coaching in Sports

[00:34:20] Brett: Um, so next time maybe, but, um, can I, Can I just say real quick, and I want Jay’s input on this, um, so I’ve been watching Welcome to Wrexham, and like, I enjoy watching soccer, but I’ve never really seen the behind the scenes, the locker room stuff, uh, which you do in Welcome to Wrexham, and it’s made me realize that coaching soccer Is just a matter of telling your players to play harder.

[00:34:48] Brett: There’s no strategy. There’s no like formations. It’s just like, you guys got to kick the ball more and, and like that’s coaching. And then you look at sports like baseball. [00:35:00] Where the only real strategy, as far as I can tell, is the pitching and maybe to some extent the batting. Otherwise, everyone’s doing the same thing all the time.

[00:35:10] Brett: And then football, you have the strategy of like formations and plays and like, that’s a real, it’s more of a chess game than soccer is to me. Um, what do you like about baseball, Jay?

[00:35:24] Jay: Baseball.

[00:35:26] The Fascination with Baseball Stats

[00:35:26] Jay: The way I explain it to non sports people who are in tech is baseball is an Excel spreadsheet done perfectly. Like when, when you are looking at baseball, like the biggest, the biggest thing, the biggest draw to baseball for the longest time was just the amount of like copious record keeping that ever existed.

[00:35:46] Jay: And also shout out to the MLB for incorporating the Negro League stats, which the Negro Leagues were baseball for non white people until about the 1950s, [00:36:00] I believe, um, when they integrated with Jackie Robinson, crossing the color barrier and that. So, um, now that, now that the Negro League stats have been included, there are a lot of major league records that have changed hands.

[00:36:15] Jay: And it’s wild because you see, like, the Atlanta great is Hank Aaron, all time home run, like career home runs,

[00:36:23] Christina: my parents were at that game.

[00:36:25] Jay: Oh, that’s amazing. Uh, that would be like fantastic. Um, I think the thing with baseball and now with the Statcast era since 2009, um, you can track how far the ball has moved both vertically and horizontally on every single pitch.

[00:36:47] Jay: The record keepers. Like, record the escape velocity of every single ball that’s hit, as well as the launch angle to predict how far the ball [00:37:00] would have traveled.

[00:37:00] Brett: So you like stats. That’s what you like about it. It’s stats. Okay.

[00:37:04] Jay: but it’s like, it’s like an absurd amount of stats, like you’ll hear, an announcer will be like, Oh, this batter after May 30th for the past seven seasons, whenever batting against a left handed pitcher with two, like with one eye closed who blinks twice, like has an OPS of like 850.

[00:37:26] Jay: And it’s just like, why, why do you have that? Hold on one second.

[00:37:31] Brett: The Rexim team, um, incorporated these bras that the whole team wears and, and they track like how far a player moves, when a player moves, where the ball is. And like, they never show us what they do with that data though. Like I don’t, I don’t know.

[00:37:48] Christina: mean, it’s probably for training

[00:37:50] Brett: Well, sure. I, like, I assume that they’re doing.

[00:37:53] Brett: Something strategy wise with that data, like maybe choosing what players to put in first, I [00:38:00] don’t know, but it’s, it’s nothing like baseball.

[00:38:03] Christina: No, I mean, that is interesting though, um, what Jay’s talking about with the, all the record keeping with baseball. I hadn’t even thought about that, but I like, I do like statistics. I don’t know if that’s ever been why I like baseball. Uh, certainly like it, it definitely makes, I think it easier to jump in to learning things about it.

[00:38:21] Brett: Well, it’s a simpler game than football,

[00:38:23] Christina: it is. I mean, football is good with stats too, but football, they haven’t been as good of record keepers to Jay’s point. Um, but it definitely is an easier game and they don’t make this same number of rule changes. Like football will make rule changes like every few years. And you’re like, wait, what is this thing?

[00:38:37] Christina: Yeah, because I’m, I’m not a big NFL person, but I did watch this past season because of the Taylor Swift of it all. And, um, I’ll admit it. And, and got like, there were things where I was like, Oh, I didn’t know about this rule. And then I would like learn. I’m like, I’m like, how, how out of this am I? Like, I thought that I, you know, as like a good, you know, raised in the South person who was forced to watch [00:39:00] football all the time.

[00:39:00] Christina: Like I figured I knew Most of the rules of the game. And they’re like, no, this is a rule within like the last five years. So I’m like, the

[00:39:06] Brett: Give me an, give me an example of like a new rule.

[00:39:10] Christina: I’m too fried from from being out for too long, but there’s a certain thing where like if you’re like one if you were a couple of um, I guess um yards away from uh From making the touchdown and you and you were not able to get it on the completion play Like then basically like you’re not going to be able to kind of get the turnover um When, when things, there’s some sort of turnover rule, um, that, that’s happened where, where basically, like, it looks like if it had been a setup and it had been a few years ago, then, um, you could have, basically it’s preventing people from doing certain gamification things, I guess, to, to, to make it easier for them to

[00:39:44] Jay: push from happening.

[00:39:46] Christina: Essentially, yes. And, and there’s like a rule involved. Yes. And there’s a rule involved in that. I can’t remember what it’s called, but it like was introduced a couple of years ago. And like, I had no idea what it was until it happened in a Chiefs game. And then like the, the, the [00:40:00] very, uh, weirdly, um, not at all autistic Taylor Swift fangirls who’ve learned all the rules of football, uh, within 72 hours of her dating a football player.

[00:40:10] Christina: Like, all were on it. No, I mean, genuinely, it was the most amazing thing you’ve ever seen, the most amazing thing you’ve ever seen in your life. Like, people who genuinely, like, don’t know anything about football, like, over the course of a few weeks, like, learning not only, like, the entire history of the game and all the rules, but also, like, all the stats for all the players that, uh, that Travis Kelsey will come into contact with.

[00:40:30] Brett: I feel like my understanding of football is pretty rudimentary, and now I’m realizing it’s probably 20 years out of date.

[00:40:36] Christina: Yeah, yeah, I can understand the stats appeal of something like baseball because it can make it easy for people to get sucked into it. Like, if you’re new to a team or new to a game, like, you have all the stats from all of history there that you can just kind of, you know, refer to.

[00:40:52] Jay: It allows you to easily build like a reference point. And I think the second thing that, to me, that makes baseball so [00:41:00] compelling is that, and this is very much like soccer, um, at least soccer in the rest of the world.

[00:41:05] The Journey of Baseball Players

[00:41:05] Jay: I don’t think the U. S. has kind of the same setup, but they have like, there’s a farm system.

[00:41:10] Jay: So in baseball, you get drafted. Sometimes like when you’re in high school, like you’ll be like 18, you’ll be drafted right out of high school. But that doesn’t mean that you go play in the majors that day. You go play rookie ball, and rookie ball is against all the other 18 year olds and you’re probably making 15, 000 a year.

[00:41:28] Christina: that, yeah.

[00:41:30] Jay: And, You get a, you’ll get like a big signing bonus, like if you actually go on, but that’ll be like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Or if you’re like drafted in the top five, like I think the top five rounds, you can get up to like a million, I think if it’s like the first or second round. Um, but then they’re most of most professional players don’t ever make it.

[00:41:51] Jay: into the major league system because there’s somewhere between Ricky Ball, Hi A, Single A, Double A, [00:42:00] Triple A, and then you go, or sorry, Double A, and then you go to the majors.

[00:42:04] Christina: then you go to the majors. Yeah, no, and then you even have people who will make it onto the majors and will be sent back down to, to, you know, the, um, the farm teams. You know, you’ll go back to minor league if you haven’t performed.

[00:42:17] Jay: yeah, so contracts are incredibly like, it’s weird because like the, your, the team will basically control your contract for like the first seven years that you’re drafted, but that means that like if you were drafted at 17, You may not get to the majors until you’re like 22, 23. And you’ve been playing in this farm system making nothing.

[00:42:37] Jay: And I think that that to me is kind of the thing that I forgive. I do think that some of the contracts like Shohei Ohtani making 600 million and the Dodgers pulling tax magic, like he’s, he’s deferred 97 percent of his contract until like his last few years so that they can like basically bring in a ton of really good people, win a champ, win like [00:43:00] two or three championships really quickly, and then figure out all the.

[00:43:03] Jay: Tax implications down the road, but like a lot of players are hoping for that. Meanwhile, they’re working like doing Grubhub wherever they’re at while they’re traveling, playing like single A ball.

[00:43:20] The Culture of Baseball and Minor Leagues

[00:43:20] Jay: And it’s, it’s kind of cool because I think about that in terms of most careers, you know, especially in DevRel.

[00:43:29] Jay: Like I know plenty of DevRel, like folks who are making three, 400, 000 a year. Most of us are not, um, and most people in tech are not. And there is like this level of Hey, where, where am I in the, the farm system of developer advocacy? Like I went from a company like Elastic, which was like a tech company, small tech company, and then all the way up to like Microsoft.

[00:43:57] Jay: And then I opted to go to like the smaller [00:44:00] company that paid better. So like almost like going to play in like the Japanese league, um, where like the pay isn’t as good, but the fans absolutely love you and like they will, they celebrate their baseball players. Like they were like military heroes, um, the same for like Korean baseball, the same thing in like the Dominican.

[00:44:17] Jay: And like baseball is a culture in a lot of these places where every game is like the most important game. And, and when you go to those games, it feels like that. I mean, like I said, the game that I went to two days ago was probably the best game that I went to, that I’ve been to probably in my entire life.

[00:44:33] Jay: And it meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. It was the Braves versus the Tampa Bay Rays. And like, the game meant nothing, but I caught, like, they do, like, when they’re doing their warm ups in between innings, like, they’ll throw the ball out into the stands, and I caught one of the balls. And like, there was like, this little, like, five year old kid that, like, had this saddest look on his face, like, right down the aisle, and I just tossed him the ball.

[00:44:56] Christina: Oh, good,

[00:44:57] Jay: in that moment, like, you’re making [00:45:00] this kid’s, like, entire week.

[00:45:02] Christina: No, you’re more than that, more than that. Like he’s going to remember that he like got a ball from like a Braves game. Like I would have at that age, like, um, I have to admit, I have not been to the new Braves stadium because I have many, many, many, many, many problems with the fact that the Atlanta Braves are no longer in Atlanta, like it pisses me the fuck off.

[00:45:18] Christina: Like I’m not, I can’t, I can’t with it, but I have so many fond memories of being a child. Little, little kid, um, at Braves games, and when they were terrible, and then also when they were good, like my mom, like, checked us out of school to go downtown, actual downtown, for real downtown, to, to the Braves parade the first year that they, um, well, they, they lost against Minnesota, they lost to the World Series against, uh, the Twins, but the Braves have been terrible, and, and that 91 was the start of their, like, Assent for the next decade of being, like, the best team in the league.

[00:45:52] Christina: Like, the Yankees won more, but, like, the Braves were, like, in the, um, um, National League, anyway, were, like, the best team [00:46:00] for, like, a solid decade. So, I, good on you for giving that kid that ball, because he’s going to remember that. Like, that’s going to be one of those things. Like, that’s so cool.

[00:46:09] Brett: I won’t belabor this, but like, what you’re describing about culture and farming and all of this is true for soccer, or football,

[00:46:18] Christina: Yeah, well, that’s what Jay

[00:46:19] Brett: In, in, in Europe and in like South America, like you have all the teams, all the leagues and there’s relegation and promotion and players, players get called up between leagues based on like, you know, skill and affordability, um, for the, for the lower leagues before you get to like premier league, but yeah, like I, I can understand.

[00:46:42] Brett: You have made baseball more interesting to me in the course of this conversation, and maybe, maybe I should be an American and get into baseball.

[00:46:50] Christina: Well, just find a team. I mean, like I hadn’t been into it for a long time. And when the, um, when the Cubs won the World Series in [00:47:00] 2016, like I actually, like I watched almost every single post season game, like at a bar that year, like I was like, got really into it. And like, I don’t know, I mean, Jay might have different advice than me, but like, that’s if you’re interested in, this is with any sport I find, cause I’m not a huge sports person, but until I find a narrative, once I find a narrative that I can get into.

[00:47:19] Christina: And, and for some people it might be stats, right? That might be the way that you get into it. For me, it’s usually like more like storyline driven. Like, you know, how long has it been since they’ve won? And like, what’s the story behind these players? And like, how much are they put upon? Like I need that sort of thing.

[00:47:32] Christina: And, um, like you just, just find a team and like find the story and that, that’s how you can get into it if you want to like that. But that’s the only way I’ve ever gotten into any sport in my life.

[00:47:43] Brett: I have an ex girlfriend who, with zero background with basketball, just suddenly found that storyline with like, uh, the, whatever the Minnesota team is. And now she finds herself at, like, games all the time, because she, like, latched onto this storyline and [00:48:00] Like, found out with, like, out of the blue, like, not a girl who’s into sports in general, um, suddenly, like, loving, like, the stadium atmosphere and the crowds and, and the game itself, and that was interesting to me, but yeah.

[00:48:18] Jay: I thought I muted my, I like tried to mute my mic before I coughed. Um, I, I would say don’t even start at the major league level, start at the minor leagues, find a minor league team. I mean like the St. Paul Saints, like one, the tickets are going to be like 20 bucks

[00:48:37] Christina: yeah. They’d be so

[00:48:38] Jay: for like right at the baseline.

[00:48:40] Jay: Um, again, you have people who are playing that are like trying to get into the major league. So they’re having like. They’re like playing their butts off. But then also the tickets are, like I said, the tickets are so cheap that you can go and there’s not going to be a ton of people there, but people are still going to be cheering.

[00:48:58] Jay: People are still going to be excited. Every [00:49:00] time the ball gets hit, people are going to cheer when amazing catches happen. Like you have to, you almost have to like. Love that moment of a great thing happening. And like, it doesn’t take the balls in the air, the person caught it. Like, that’s amazing. The person dove and like barely caught it.

[00:49:17] Jay: Like, Oh, that’s really cool. Um, the game that I went to, someone saved a home run ball while like, like scaling the wall and like catching it off the wall. Like that’s, that’s like an amazing thing that happens. Um, Someone calling the shot, like in the, in the stands, being like, oh, this next pitch is going to, it’s gonna be a home run.

[00:49:36] Jay: And watching a ball go, like flying over your head and just being like, well, we called that. Like, you know, like obviously you had zero control in that happening. But like the, the magic that comes from doing these kinds of things and, and getting, and again, like the game coming down to like a single pitch and.

[00:49:55] Jay: Like an amazing save that saved the game. Uh, and you know, and then your home [00:50:00] team, your team wins and everybody’s excited, everybody’s cheering. And I think that’s, what’s, that’s, what’s kind of cool. Like, especially in the South where like college sports are probably more popular. Like everybody is divided.

[00:50:11] Jay: Like, you know, whether you have UGA folks or Georgia tech folks, like I’m from Knoxville, so I’m a UT person. Like when, when you go to the Braves, like they call it Braves country. And it’s like four states worth of people, people driving in from Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, parts of Florida, Alabama, like they all come in and everybody is cheering for the Braves.

[00:50:36] Jay: And you just, you get like consumed by it, but you can get that same feeling on a smaller scale by going to a minor league game and like, Also, if you do go to a major league game, two choices, get nosebleed tickets, go to the bar, hang out at the bar, like you don’t even have to drink, like you can get a mocktail and just like watch from the bar, because it’s probably a better view, and your tickets are like 10 if they’re in like the [00:51:00] nosebleed sections, um, or you I like to get outfield seats because you can see everything happening.

[00:51:06] Jay: You can see the entire game as it’s happening and you can like watch the balls flying out and you can start to like get a feel of you see a ball hit and you’re like, ah, that’s too short. Cause like you hear everybody cheer, the ball gets hit and everybody screams. It’s because it’s like coming from in front of them.

[00:51:23] Jay: So they can’t. see how far the ball is actually going. But from the outfield, you actually have a perspective of like, if, if it was a good hit or not, and you know, we’ve, we almost sit in the exact same section. Every game we go to, except for the game I went to in Toronto. And then we got like third base, we got seats right above the dugout.

[00:51:44] Jay: And like, that was just amazing. Like you can literally like. See how tall players are. Like, there are baseball players that I’m taller than and I’m like, that’s kind of weird But like you expect like athletes to be like these like adonises of people, but like no, it’s like five foot nine [00:52:00] guy like 215 pounds kind of stocky like goes up hits a home run everybody cheers And he takes him 45 seconds to like walk around the bases

[00:52:11] Brett: That’s um, it, this is weirdly a sports episode. I think that’s the title. Weirdly a sports

[00:52:17] Christina: a sports episode. Yeah. No, I agree with that. No and no and you’re right though about like Well, it depends on the stadium like where you want to sit But yeah, if you’re like a more modern stadium like like the the new brave stadium I assume yeah Like getting you know Like nosebleeds and then like hanging out some of those other areas because they make they’ve put money into making these stadiums really nice So, you know there are there it’s hard to find a bad seat Like if you’re willing to you know You know, just kind of hang out and, um, you know, the, the various viewing areas and stuff that they have.

[00:52:46] Christina: I went to a Nationals, Nationals versus Braves game in, um, September, um, last year with a, with a girlfriend of mine. Um, she was cheering for the Nationals. I was cheering for the Braves, the Braves won. So I felt like pretty good about that. Um, and, and likewise, [00:53:00] like you can just, I don’t know, base, there’s something really fun about a, about, about a baseball game.

[00:53:04] Christina: Um, and that I assume is, is similar to like European soccer games. Um, You know, where, yeah, you just, you have a lot of people who are just really committed to the, to the team. It’s, yeah.

[00:53:17] Brett: All right. Well, thank you both of you for enlightening me. Um, I’ve always, I’ve always, Had a peripheral interest in sports, more about what you’re talking about, Jay. Like the idea of like being in the crowd and seeing something amazing happen. Uh, which is part of why I’ve always enjoyed soccer is it’s so fucking long between goals when it happens, the eruption of the crowd, even, even if they get in the box, there’s the cross and they miss the eruption of getting close.

[00:53:49] Brett: It’s almost like, um, Tantric sex, where like, you finally, you finally get there, um, or you edge for a whole game and it’s a draw, [00:54:00] but, um, anyway, should we, should we Graptitude before we close out here?

[00:54:05] Christina: Yeah, let’s gratitude.

[00:54:06] Brett: Jay, I know you have something to say.

[00:54:10] grAPPtitude: Exploring Live Streaming Tools

[00:54:10] Jay: shout out to So this is an app that I used they’ve sponsored Terpstra I don’t know if they’ve sponsored Overtired or not, um, but it’s Ecamm live. Um, I have, I’ve been like teasing the idea of doing regular streams and it’s, it’s not even like because I want to be a streamer. It’s just because whenever I need to actually do like a coding project, um, If I have the camera watching me, I will sit down and do it versus like getting distracted and walking around and like not doing what I’m supposed to do.

[00:54:45] Jay: Um, so I like, streamed a few times and in, even in like, not like non streaming situations, like if I’m doing, I do a meetup every Friday with black Python devs, and it’s more of just like a [00:55:00] check in with folks, but it’s so easy for someone to like, ask a question. And they’d be like, hey, I have a career question.

[00:55:07] Jay: I’m like, okay, you know what? I’m going to record this really quick. So then I just like open Ecamm live. And it has like a really simple setup to where if I want a certain window, I just drag that window in and then like, boom, now that window is the main focus. My camera’s down at the bottom. I have like 8, 000 cameras so I can quickly switch between which camera I want pointed.

[00:55:27] Jay: But they also added, uh, they just recently added like zoom support. So like you can do a lot of the, you know, super dynamic stuff within zoom.

[00:55:37] Brett: Oh, that’s

[00:55:38] Jay: But it also, like, if you’re live streaming a Zoom call, like, you know, some people do that, some meetups do that, you can, it integrates the Zoom chat with the actual chat of your, like, live stream.

[00:55:52] Jay: So, like, people who are watching on YouTube have just as much, like, integration with the folks who are, like, in the Zoom [00:56:00] call. And as, like, messages that are public for everyone, like, those will, those can get pushed up. And you can even, like, Pull them up on the screen. Oh, this person asked this question and then have it like load up on your screen and everything.

[00:56:11] Jay: So like, if it, if you’re familiar with StreamYard, it’s very similar to what StreamYard does, but it’s like on your system, so it can integrate with the application and the tools that you have on your system. And in my opinion, it’s. It’s just easier to use than StreamYard, but I definitely would look at it from like the I’m going to record a video or I’m going to do a live stream, uh, type thing.

[00:56:34] Christina: Yeah,

[00:56:35] Brett: be mistaken, but I think that’s who Doc Rock is

[00:56:38] Jay: That is who DocRock

[00:56:39] Christina: It is who Doc rocks with. Um, yeah, they do great stuff. It’s, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s very similar to OBS, frankly, but it’s much better optimized for a Mac. So like if you, if you wanted to do OBS type of stuff, but like, because it’s Mac support is, I mean, it’s not primarily Mac application. Like I think that the, and I actually give money to the OBS developer every month because I

[00:56:57] Brett: Yeah. I love OBS, but I’ve never [00:57:00] tried Ecamm.

[00:57:00] Christina: Yeah. It’s good. They’ve had it for a long time, um, and, and they’ve kind of adopted, uh, adapted it over the years, but it, it, it’s good. I haven’t used it as much as, as Jay has, but, um, it’s, it’s good. It’s good stuff for sure.

[00:57:13] Jay: Yeah. I think if you, if you’ve tempted, if you’re tempted to like try OBS and you like get to those screens and you’re like, I don’t know what to do now, or like, I don’t want to spend a bunch of time configuring them. And then you like go to StreamYard and you’re like, StreamYard’s kind of cool too, but I like a

[00:57:29] Christina: Very cool. But yeah. Mm hmm.

[00:57:31] Jay: Like Ecamm is that like perfect balance between not giving you every single configurable option like OBS does, but giving you a lot of them, but then also having some of the really nice features of like allowing guests to come in on a call if you pay for like a certain amount. Like that’s probably the one downside is that it is like a subscription based product, but.

[00:57:51] Jay: I mean, I think, I think it was like a hundred dollars for the year. Um, and I get all the features except for the ability to bring [00:58:00] like people into the call, which now with zoom integration, like I don’t even need that, like I can just bring them into a zoom call and then do all the same things anyway. Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s like that perfect balance of more, more flexibility than StreamYard, but easier to use than like OBS on the Mac.

[00:58:20] Jay: And all the other OBS forks just don’t work on Macs. Like, they never work on Macs. It’s always embarrassing how bad they are on a Mac.

[00:58:29] Brett: All right. Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Christina, do you have one you want to talk

[00:58:34] Christina: I do.

[00:58:35] grAPPtitude: Managing Development Environments

[00:58:35] Christina: So, okay, I’ve been having to do some demo projects for, um, a thing that I’m going to have to do in, um, uh, eight days, and, um, I’ve been having to kind of, like, mess with my, like, uh, version, um, manager setup for a bunch of different tools, so things like Node, Python, stuff like that, and I’ve used various Node managers over the years.

[00:58:55] Christina: Volta was what I was using for a long time as kind of, like, my in VM, um, Um, uh, [00:59:00] alternative, um, just as an easy way to quickly install or pin a version of Node or NPM, um, globally or per project. But, um, I needed something that could also work with Python. And I know that there are, and Jay can correct me about like all the many different like Python version manager things that are out there.

[00:59:19] Christina: Um, but I was struggling and so I decided to try out an app called MISE, um, or I think it’s pronounced MISE, M I S E. It’s similar to ASDF, which is also kind of like

[00:59:30] Brett: Yeah, I love ASDF.

[00:59:31] Christina: MyEyes is like that and it’s compatible with, with ASDF plugins, but I like it a little bit better. Um, and so it, it has plugins. It’ll work with ASDF plugins out of the box, but it has support for more types of things too.

[00:59:45] Christina: And I, and I just kind of like how it’s laid out a little bit more so, um, um, oh, and it’s Mee’s. I’m sorry. So

[00:59:52] Jay: Yeah, it’s like mise en place,

[00:59:54] Christina: Mise en place. Yes. Mise en

[00:59:56] Jay: everything. Like, it’s a cooking thing where you get all your ingredients [01:00:00] out.

[01:00:00] Christina: No, that makes sense. And because mise en scene, which is, which is the French cinema term. Um, okay. So mise, uh, apologies for saying that wrong, is, is my pick.

[01:00:10] Christina: Um, yeah, like you can use like ASDF, like on the backend, if you want to use ASDF plugins, but it also works with, with, um, with Rust, uh, for Cargo and Go and, and NPM and things like that. And, um, it also works with, um, um, Uh, uh, uh, direct nev, uh, for, for, um, Python stuff. So, um, if you’ve, if you’ve struggled with managing, you know, versions for your dev tools, um, and, and you haven’t jumped on the A SDF bandwagon, or even if you have, if you’re interested in looking at something else, me is, uh, is my pick.

[01:00:47] Brett: I’m watching the 30 second demo. I like the, uh, the very natural language subcommands it uses.

[01:00:54] Christina: Yeah. I like that a lot too. Yeah.

[01:00:55] Brett: I, yeah, I’m going to try this out, especially if it works with all my ASDF [01:01:00] plugins.

[01:01:00] Christina: yeah. I mean, the developer is very, very active. Like, he’s, he’s great. And, um, like, that was one of the other things that kind of, like, Made me feel good about it because some of these tools, like, will start out really strong, like Volta is a great example, and then just kind of die, and then they don’t have any, you know, updates, and like, that can be okay, but like, then you’re like, okay, but I want Bund support, or I want Deno support, or whatever, and like, they never, people make patches, but they never get them, and so, um, I, I really, uh, I’m appreciative of, of this.

[01:01:29] Christina: So, so Mise is my

[01:01:30] Brett: Nice. I am, I am waffling on my pick. Um, I was going to talk about Affinity Tools, but I’m so concerned they’re going subscription after a recent acquisition. Um,

[01:01:44] Christina: they say. Yeah. I don’t believe them.

[01:01:46] Brett: Yeah. And then I was going to talk about my tool. How’s it probably repeated. Um, because it has been my most used, like I can go into any of my [01:02:00] project directories of which I have easily a hundred and I can just type, how’s it minus R deploy and no matter what the project is, whether it’s an Xcode project or a Ruby gem or a Python app that I’m working on, like it will Build and deploy that project.

[01:02:19] grAPPtitude: Launch Control for Mac

[01:02:19] Brett: And I don’t have to remember commands for everything, but what I actually want to talk about is this app called Launch Control for Mac, um, that gives you a very good graphical user interface. AKA GUI, um, to work with LaunchD on your Mac. Um, and if you’re not familiar with LaunchD, think about it as Cron for like sane people.

[01:02:48] Brett: Um, and it offers all kinds of, it’s all done in a plist and you have all kinds of keys for like repeating a task. How often it repeats, whether it repeats after a [01:03:00] shutdown, like if it catches up after a system shutdown, um. You can do calendar timing, you can do interval timing, um, you can do, uh, you, you have, um, uh, process helpers so you can run as root.

[01:03:15] Brett: And all of this in Launch Control is just drag and drop and you can build these LaunchD files and it gives you a, an overview of everything you have in your global daemons, daemons, uh, your, like, user, uh, specific. LaunchD Tasks. It’s awesome and it’s like I think nine bucks still and it is still being updated after years of existing and I,

[01:03:44] Christina: now, but still, but, but, but that’s still a great, that’s still a great price. But yeah, but, but, but it’s, oh no, sorry. It might be less than that. It is, um, 18 was for Ammonite. For Launch Control 2, it is 21 for the personal license and then 15 if you needed to update, [01:04:00] but yeah,

[01:04:00] Brett: I don’t know if Lingen, Lingen was kind of what I used before Launch Control and I think Lingen still exists, but it hasn’t been up active for a while. I don’t think. Um, but Launch Control is, I just got an update yesterday. It’s still It’s still improving. Love it.

[01:04:18] Christina: Fantastic.

[01:04:20] Jay: I

[01:04:20] Brett: All right.

[01:04:21] Concluding Thoughts and Future Topics

[01:04:21] Brett: Well, thanks for the sports episode.

[01:04:23] Brett: We were going to talk about Apple and AI. We were going to talk about, I was going to talk about record, uh, like Windows recording, everything you do and how I actually, Don’t, I don’t hate the idea of local recordings. There’s apps called Rewind and Limitless from the same dev that actually intrigue me, like they can give you, they can listen to your, your Zoom meetings and give you like meeting notes automatically.

[01:04:51] Brett: And they even have like a dongle

[01:04:53] Christina: Yeah, they have a pin now. Yeah,

[01:04:54] Brett: record your conversations with other people and get like AI summaries. [01:05:00] And it’s intriguing to me. Um, I have, I don’t talk about confidential information and like the idea. Anyway, that’s, we’ll do that next

[01:05:09] Christina: You do it and yeah, we’ll do it. We’ll do it next week because, uh, yeah, because they, they delayed recall. So, you know, they listened to the, to the massive shitstorm. Um, yeah, like they’re like, like, long story short, just my personal opinion, not representative of, uh, Microsoft or a Microsoft subsidiary. I think that this was This was a, an own goal, this was a failure of marketing and of, uh, of messaging, not, not a product, uh, or design failure to be completely honest.

[01:05:37] Christina: I think this is, this is completely a, a you’ve told this story and what this is doing the wrong way thing.

[01:05:42] Jay: This is, this is the, the kickstart of the, like, Metro Boomin future, we don’t trust you, like, rap beef to Drake and Microsoft is Drake in this instance.

[01:05:54] Christina: Absolutely. And, and like, you don’t want to be Drake right now, right? Like, like, that, that’s, that’s like, that’s like a hard place to [01:06:00] be because like, everybody wanted to be Drake and now you’re like, oh no, oh no, what’s coming, right? Like, you, it, please, please do what Drake didn’t do and shut the fuck up because you don’t need like the, the, the, the three Kendrick, you know, um, uh, tracks in one weekend coming out.

[01:06:16] Christina: Like, you really don’t need that.

[01:06:19] Brett: All right. Well, thanks for being here, Jay.

[01:06:23] Jay: Absolutely. Anytime.

[01:06:25] Christina: We love you. Get some sleep, guys.

[01:06:27] Jay: Get some sleep.