284: Horny for Plain Text

[00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to over tired. I’m Christina Warren joined as always by Jeff Severns Guntzel and Brett Terpstra, and very, very, very special guest special guest. Um, uh, our friend Alex Cox, Alex, welcome to overtired.

[00:00:21] Alex: Thank you so much for having me. This is very, very exciting.

[00:00:27] Brett: we, we we’re as excited as you are.

[00:00:31] Alex: And Christina, I threw some back channels. I found out that you, uh, were able to, or rather I got to be on the show with you instead of, you know, just these other two, two, I can’t even joke and call you losers because Jeffrey we’ve never even met on the internet.

[00:00:50] Jeff: You can, you can, you can call me a loser even better.

[00:00:54] Alex: No. And also I have a lot of questions for Brett later this week about bunch. And I’m [00:01:00] just so, so happy to be here, uh, with my, you know, finally with some of my Paris favorite parasocial relationships.

[00:01:11] Jeff: Do we need to go back and meet on the internet before we can get any further here?

[00:01:14] Alex: I mean, if you have a

[00:01:15] Introducing Alex Cox

[00:01:15] Brett: have, let’s have pseudo introductions. Alex, tell us, tell us in, in as much detail as you care to go into, who are you and why should Jeff know you?

[00:01:27] Alex: oh, goodness gracious. The why is because I like to have friends over the internet more than real life. So, I mean, I guess that’s a pitch for French, but, uh,

[00:01:41] Brett: Today’s episode brought to you by French.

[00:01:43] Alex: Yeah, it’s something that I’m working on. Uh, the way most people know me from the internet is either from podcasting or being the technical director and producer at cards against humanity, which is a part of game for horrible people.

[00:01:59] But [00:02:00] I no longer work there. I recently left to do independent podcasting and producing full-time and there’s a bunch of them of the most popular is due by Friday with Merlin Mann. I also have a podcast about robots and tech and ism, but isms, but mostly robots on relay FM. Um, and that is with Kathy Campbell and I’m starting a new project called factory settings, which has a secret RSS feed that I’m too self-conscious to share in public, but people can DM me on Twitter if they want.

[00:02:38] And that’s all about our various forms of realities, like AR XR, VR, uh, but with no Bitcoin advice and no web three talk except to express, you know, doom and gloom over that. But, oh gosh. And I have a show with my spouse called two headed girl, and it’s all about gender and our feelings and [00:03:00] transness. So I think that’s it.

[00:03:02] Yeah, that was a lot. I apologize.

[00:03:05] Brett: No, that’s great. That’s great. And, and all of you have different formats for all of your shows. I feel like you are a, a podcasting. I don’t wanna use the word savant too lightly, but I feel like you really explore the medium in very creative ways.

[00:03:22] Alex: Oh, thank you. I, I was actually, uh, going to immediately refute that because it did take me about a half hour to figure out how to use a chromium browser again. But I do, I honest to God, I am very, very passionate about RSS and, uh, um, distributing media over something that isn’t controlled by an algorithm as much as I love algorithms.

[00:03:49] So yeah, I love playing with that format, whether it be podcasts or music or whatever the heck, but except NFTs. [00:04:00] No, no, thank you.

[00:04:00] Jeff: Okay.

[00:04:01] Christina: NFC podcasts. And, uh, in, in, in, in your future, um, okay. Before we get into our mental health corner, I do just want to ask this because this came up and I’m very curious, like this isn’t me being flippant. I’m like actually genuinely curious, like what your, your rationale is. What is your reasoning for not using any sort of chromium browser?

[00:04:21] Like, are you, do you use Firefox? Do you use only like safari or are you like I it’s WebKit or nothing. And like, I’m just, I’m just curious about.

[00:04:28] Alex: Mostly WebKit more so, because I don’t know enough about Chrome to keep like my, my data safe. And I, I know that sounds very much in like the paranoid realm, but it’s more so like, I would, I love extensions. I love doing weird stuff in my browser. And with Chrome, I have not broken, but, uh, you know, done some weird [00:05:00] things with many, a computer.

[00:05:01] And so I just typically keep Chrome. Uh, well, uh, I, because I left my job, I now have a personal laptop and just never got around to installing Chrome, but I do really like Firefox and I’m using actually brave right now because I forgot that I did have that installed. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I, there, there aren’t like a ton of extensions and I know other folks use brave.

[00:05:25] So if I break something, I can be like, hello, please help. So, you know, explain the friendships for tech support.

[00:05:32] Christina: There’s a, there’s a browser called Orion. It’s still in beta. I have mixed feelings about aspects of it. But the interesting thing with it is that it is WebKit, but they figured out how you can use Firefox or Chrome extensions with it.

[00:05:49] Alex: Oh, that’s super cool. Yeah. I’m really liking fire. I’m checking out Firefox and I I’m really impressed with how far they’ve come, especially [00:06:00] because, you know, I used to use Thunderbird and stuff back in the net yet. Yeah. It’s really cool. Revisiting that.

[00:06:06] Brett: I use Chrome for recording this show, as we’re doing right now, we’re all running Chrome for this purpose. And that’s about all like everything else I do is in Firefox. And when I need a, an alternative browser to Firefox, I use safari. Um, if it weren’t for Riverside and certain, I’ll be honest, certain porn sites requiring Chrome.

[00:06:30] I would never, I would never even have Chrome on my machine.

[00:06:34] Christina: That’s interesting that certain porn sites, sorry.

[00:06:38] Alex: oh yeah. I’m also trying to wonder, which know that’s why I, the show does get

[00:06:44] Brett: Uh, I’ll send you some links. I’ll send you some links. It’ll be fun.

[00:06:48] Alex: The, uh, that is a genuine thing. I’m so sorry. There’s something crinkling on my desk. Oh, if Pokemon stickers, no one can see except you guys. But, um, the that’s like a [00:07:00] really interesting thing because.

[00:07:02] I have often come across people who they, you know, they’re not super tech savvy, and a lot of their stuff is not accessible unless it’s, you know, over Chrome or in an app. And I am always trying to be conscientious about like, okay, when I distribute stuff, how are people going to access that? And I’m the same thing with porn.

[00:07:26] And I bet queer porn now that I’m thinking about it, I wonder how many queer porn producers are like, oh man, I really need to use the simplest thing because I’m doing another job and web development. Isn’t part of that and yeah.

[00:07:40] Christina: Well, I think what’s interesting to me though, is the not working as far as I would think. Like at the very least they would be wanting it to work on iOS. So that’s, that’s the interesting, I think like that’s the thing where I would be like, huh? That’s that’s that’s just interesting.

[00:07:54] Alex: I have a theory about that, eh, that I think most folks have moved over to [00:08:00] only fans, or at least if they have a small enough audience. And the other thing with Chrome for me is it’s almost as if like I should use it for programs like this, because Riverside already seems pretty cool and less shady then something like other things I don’t want to name, but the idea of having it on my computer is like having drugs in my house or something like, I, I am not fully sober, but I do.

[00:08:31] If I, if I have like really yummy weed in the house and it’s not a weekend, I will be like, mm, no, I don’t, I don’t want this here. And I would have too much fun dicking around with Chrome. Can we swear here? I forget.

[00:08:44] Brett: Yes, you can swear all you want.

[00:08:47] Alex: Yeah. Oh, that’s refreshing.

[00:08:50] Brett: fact, we

[00:08:50] Alex: Oh fuck. That’s

[00:08:51] Jeff: Yeah, we have

[00:08:52] Brett: you can, you can be extra crude this

[00:08:54] Christina: You can be absolutely.

[00:08:56] Brett: to impress.

[00:08:57] Alex: Oh man. And oh no, I, I don’t [00:09:00] care about, well, I care about impressing sponsors in that I am, I don’t want to get anyone in trouble. Uh, but otherwise I want to impress the three of you, but I’ll, I’ll also, also, also, I really want my diet Coke so that cocaine.

[00:09:15] Sponsor: The Weather

[00:09:15] Brett: Speaking of let’s take a quick sponsor break before our mental health corner. This episode is brought to you by weather. Have you ever been talking to a coworker? Not wanted to bring up current events because you didn’t know where they stand on the issues, try weather, or maybe you’re talking to a family member and you skip current events because you do know where they stand, whether it’s there for you, it’s free and the worse it gets, the better your conversations.

[00:09:44] Next time you’re reaching for a topic. Reach for weather. Visit outside.com/overtired for all the weather you can handle.

[00:09:52] Jeff: Well done one take.

[00:09:56] Christina: That was amazing. That was amazing weather. Please continue to be a [00:10:00] sponsor of overtired.

[00:10:01] Brett: wrote that in the car while I was driving home from buying plants today,

[00:10:06] Jeff: Hmm,

[00:10:06] Brett: like, you know what?

[00:10:08] Jeff: this is, uh, you dictated this, is that what you did?

[00:10:11] Brett: I wrote it in my head and then somehow remembered it long enough to write it down in a script.

[00:10:18] Alex: I’m so jealous of your brain, Brett that’s. I mean, part of the reason I’m so passionate about like ambient computing and voice stuff is because I wouldn’t immediately have forgotten that and then beaten myself up for getting.

[00:10:35] Mental Health Corner, Long Version

[00:10:35] Brett: Speaking of let’s talk to mental health, can we talk mental health?

[00:10:39] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:10:40] Brett: So you’ve heard this show, right, Alex,

[00:10:43] Alex: I have indeed,

[00:10:45] Brett: we kind of take turns diving into stigma, riddled topics. Uh, and we talk about our own mental health. And we kind of take turns and then we talk about each other’s shit until, until we get [00:11:00] bored and move on.

[00:11:01] Uh, but Alex, you’re running the show today. So how do you want to, how do you want to direct them mental health corner?

[00:11:09] Alex: this is often my favorite part of the show because I love all of your broken brains. And do I get to share my broken brain today?

[00:11:17] Brett: Absolutely. We want it, yes.

[00:11:21] Alex: I in, I think I’ve been on systematic twice perhaps and I have. Yeah. And I, uh, no, none of your listeners would know this because I’m, I am a nothing person. Um, but I am bipolar one and was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago, uh, before it was before it was cool.

[00:11:47] Um,

[00:11:48] Christina: everybody was ADHD.

[00:11:49] Alex: Yeah. It’s, it’s super funny because I mean, like, as I explore more of Tik TOK in Instagram, I’m like, okay. The not [00:12:00] to ever diminish. I know. Uh, does, does everyone here have both ADHD flavor of some sort? I think. Yeah. So, yeah. And it’s like, I never want to diminish that, but I’m also like, man, when is being bipolar going to be cool?

[00:12:13] Like what is the Schizoaffective stuff that people don’t find fun?

[00:12:18] Brett: bipolar scares people and I have no problem talking about my ADHD. I can do it all day long. I’m super open. I’ll be in a job interview and I’d be like, yes. So I’m ADHD. And that’s why you asked me a question. I get, I started to give you an answer, but now I’ve forgotten the question. It is, it is, uh, uh, frontal cortex, executive function problems.

[00:12:40] But I do not. I do not lead with also I’m bipolar and may have a week at a time where I’m inoperative it’s it’s yeah, it has a lot more stigma around it.

[00:12:55] Alex: It’s funny too, because part of, part of the reason I [00:13:00] loved my old job and stayed there so long was because everybody you surprise in video games and just art in general, people tend to have pretty broken brains. So it was no big deal to have, you know, during the manic episodes, I, it wasn’t sort of like enabled, but it was understood, oh, Alex is going to get just a fuck ton done.

[00:13:25] And then, you know, the, during the super depressive times, it’s like, ah, Alex is going to use all of their vacation days and it wasn’t weird. But now that I talk about, I’ve always really talked openly about mental health on podcasts and written about it and given talks and stuff. And I’m like, how unemployable am I now for various reasons?

[00:13:49] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:13:50] Alex: And especially, I mean, uh, I guess a more like current events of Alex’s brain. Uh, cause I know that you guys give [00:14:00] updates. My thing the past two years has been okay. So being diagnosed with ADHD and being bipolar, uh, Brett, I’m sure you’ve experienced this, trying to find something that’s like, not quite as stimulant that will just.

[00:14:16] Skyrocket me into a manic episode. It has been quite a journey. So right now, I guess I, um, am technically like UN treated for ADHD. Um, except for, uh, I mean, Lamictal, is this no medical advice? No, no endorsements here, except I love Lamictal. It’s been like my anchor drug for forever. Um, yeah, it’s great. Yeah.

[00:14:50] Not having to be on lithium, like fucking changed my life. Uh, but yeah, I’m, I’m going to start using, or trying Vyvanse in the [00:15:00] next couple of weeks and I’m nervous, but excited. I think.

[00:15:04] Brett: both, both Jeff and I have gone to Vyvanse route. Uh, it didn’t work as well for Jeff as it does for me. Uh, because like I was on Focalin before I was on Vyvanse, like a

[00:15:17] Alex: What a name

[00:15:21] Brett: on. This would rocket me into manic episodes and it would prolong manic episodes and I kind of liked it and I stayed on it for way too long.

[00:15:34] Um, so yeah, so switching back to Vyvanse for the first week, it made me a little jittery, but now I’m not even sure it does anything. And I’m at a point where I it’s better to be stable and feel undertreated for ADHD than it is to be rocketing back and forth between manic and depressive episodes. I have more PR productivity [00:16:00] if I, you know, if I have 30 days a month of kind of working well, it’s better than five days a month of working really well.

[00:16:08] And then 25 days of not working at all.

[00:16:11] Alex: Yeah. That’s, that’s like where I’m at and it also, I have terrible allergies, so I do take Claritin D and I am totally honest with myself in that. Like, I fucking love it. And that’s why going into like, experimenting with meds. My doctor and I are like, okay, let’s make sure that this doesn’t go off the rails with you being a emotionally addicted.

[00:16:38] Brett: Bef before I got, um, diagnosed with ADHD, I found that, uh, what’s the really common pseudoephedrine suit. Yeah. Sudafed.

[00:16:52] Alex: Yeah.

[00:16:53] Brett: I found that Sudafed, was it just, it made me work well, like as a person, like, [00:17:00] I function better with Sudafed and this was around the time that. Math became a national crisis and Sudafed suddenly became something you could only buy so much of a month and you had to get, like you had to give an ID and it was behind

[00:17:15] Jeff: show your

[00:17:15] Brett: and everything.

[00:17:16] And I didn’t know why. All I knew was Sudafed was making my life better. Uh, just, I didn’t realize that my brain needed a stimulant, uh, to function properly. Um, I got, I got, I would say hooked on Sudafed, but only because it made me work better, you know, like it’s a finite amount. You can only get so much anyways.

[00:17:42] So

[00:17:42] Alex: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, that’s, uh, my, my update for your listeners who are not invested in, in my mental health help, but I hope, uh, you know, the big, scary B word is, [00:18:00] I don’t know. I like when people talk about being bipolar, just because, um, it’s so varied and so weird and maybe one day there will be cool tic talks about it, but I would love to hear about Christina and Jeffrey, if you would like to share, I love mental health garner.

[00:18:18] Christina: Sure. Jeff, do you want to start or do you want me to

[00:18:22] Brett: Yeah.

[00:18:23] Jeff: Christina you one.

[00:18:24] Christina: Okay. Um, okay. So I’ve been in Atlanta for the last week. I’m actually going to be here for a few more days. I came into town because my nephew was turning one and then there was a christening. And then my mom wanted me to stay through mother’s day.

[00:18:36] So it’s been a lot. And my mental health has actually been pretty good being here. I have to say. Um, the only thing is like, everything that happened in the United States happened this week, and then I’m in a state where. And then I’m around some people who have very different opinions about all of this than me.

[00:18:59] [00:19:00] Like, like even though Georgia went blue, it is not a blue state. Uh, it is not. And, um, so all of the local media, all the other stuff, you know, like my, my parents, friends, all that stuff, like, uh, these are like very religious and, and people who have very different opinions than I do. And so that’s been sort of frustrating and sad to be here during that time.

[00:19:23] Um, there is like a big March in, in Seattle through my neighborhood that was apparently so loud that it was almost like definition of, uh, people marching, um, for, for body autonomy, which is great. I’m not wanting to discount that, but, uh, there’s also a part of me that is like, and this is getting into my mental health where I was almost kind of getting angry because I was.

[00:19:46] Okay, that’s great. But this also feels really performative because this is in an extremely liberal city in an estate that already has like a provisions that if you know, um, there are Supreme court decisions, federal decisions that happen where the state will not be [00:20:00] impacted by that. So meanwhile, like I’m in a part of the country where I genuinely see and know that people would be at risk and, and, and hurt by these things.

[00:20:10] And there aren’t protests and there isn’t any of this stuff, you know what I mean? Like it kind of puts like that that’s a difficult, like thing from a, um, mental health thing to have to kind of like deal with being in, in a place where. The values are so different than my own. Um, so that’s, it’s on the one hand, it’s been nice to be around my family and it’s been nice to kind of have a break from things.

[00:20:33] And then on the other hand, it’s hard to be around things when you are like struck with just how bifurcated and different, um, the opinions and, and deeply held beliefs are in our country, you know?

[00:20:49] Jeff: Yeah,

[00:20:50] Alex: Yeah. Jeez. That’s how I’ve also been feeling with, I mean, you know, the, the performer, [00:21:00] the Instagram squares that we all know and have a feeling about, but I do like that we, I, I don’t know who started this, but the trend of just calling them rage donations and, and I’m like, you know what? I’d actually like.

[00:21:16] Yeah. Let’s all recognize that we do this as just, or a lot of us do this. Out of pure, you know, dopamine and rage, which is all right, but like have infrastructures in place for outrage and that performance. Um, Chicago’s kind of been, we, I, I think, um, the protests have heavily scaled back and become more of rallies of like, just like, Hey, we support one another and versus like going down, um, If, uh, if, uh, folks to know that like the, when people think of Chicago, it’s either like poor black [00:22:00] people or the, or downtown, which is where like the Sears slash Willis tower is.

[00:22:06] And it’s like, all right, protesting and turn up in front of the Trump building, hasn’t really done anything versus, you know, like organizing in our communities and yeah, in 2016 and in a lot of 2020, like being in those suburbs where it’s very red in, in Illinois, I live in Chicago, but, um, grew up in a similar, it seems like a similar situation where you are Christina and it always felt very weird to be like, okay, thank you.

[00:22:41] But no, no, thank you. So I totally get what you’re feeling, man. Ooh.

[00:22:51] Christina: Yeah, yeah. This week has been hard. Um, and, and it’s been a bit, again, it’s just, you know, we can get in our bubble so [00:23:00] much, like ideologically where we, everybody that we talked to and everybody that we were around. And, and certainly for me, I’ve chosen to live in cities where people kind of matched my own feelings and beliefs.

[00:23:10] And then it, it is instructive, even though it can be painful to then be in places where you realize, oh, no, there actually a whole lot of people who don’t share this same thing and have very different beliefs. And that can be difficult to struggle with from like a mental health perspective. But, but other than that,

[00:23:28] Brett: breakfast with my parents sometime.

[00:23:30] Christina: totally, well, no, I mean, that was the thing, right?

[00:23:32] Like I was, I was meeting so at the, at the christening slash birthday party on Sunday, which was a whole thing, it went off very well, but it was a whole thing because both my mother and my sister are completely over the top and ridiculous. And so the house had to be perfect and the, everything had to be free, but there were people who were there who, some of them, I have not seen since I was like six years old.

[00:23:53] I don’t know these people there. I’m trying to then give them kind of an update on my life and I’m hearing about them. And, and it’s nice to do that, but [00:24:00] I’m kind of realizing I’m like, I fundamentally have nothing in common with. On any level and, you know, trying to like figure out those weather conversations to have, right?

[00:24:10] Like what can we talk about the weather? Like what can we say? Because, um, I, I know instinctively and I’m in a position because it’s my parents' house and, and it’s not one of those things where you can have any sort of, it is, it is a child’s birthday. Like this is not the place to be having to push, push back on people who say things that you disagree with.

[00:24:29] That is not the place. I know there’s some people who would do that. I was raised to be far more polite and like better behave than that is not the space for that. It would not accomplish anything, but it is one of those things where, you know, you’re just trying to kind of like figure out, okay, what are the conversation topics we can have?

[00:24:46] What are the commonalities we can find? And, uh, I don’t know. Yeah. So, yeah. W w I imagine it was like having breakfast with your parents, right?

[00:24:55] Jeff: We should have them on.

[00:24:57] Christina: We should, we should, but, but that’s enough about me and kind [00:25:00] of my, other than, other than the world stuff has been impacting things of him. Mental health has been pretty good, but, but Jeff, how are you doing?

[00:25:07] Brett: Wait, let’s take a quick sponsor break. Uh, this episode is brought to you by bodily autonomy. Do you like choosing what happens to your body trust, bodily autonomy? Get it while supplies last, visit planned parenthood.org and now to you, Jeff,

[00:25:25] Jeff: Oh, my God. It’s like, it’s like Prairie home companion, but not creepy.

[00:25:30] Brett: except except without the whole me too thing.

[00:25:33] Christina: Right. I was going to say, which was so disappointing, so disappointing.

[00:25:37] Jeff: My God.

[00:25:39] Brett: I can Kerrison Keeler who would have thought.

[00:25:41] Jeff: he was mad. He

[00:25:42] Christina: a lot of people probably,

[00:25:43] Brett: Yeah, probably a lot of people who actually knew him. Yeah.

[00:25:47] Jeff: I can say he was married to a gun sole so I can say yes, people, people, um, but I don’t want to bring that wrath on at the moment. That’s slow folksy Raff. Um, [00:26:00] I am. I’m doing so. I also, I was recently diagnosed with bipolar one back in like April, very late. I’m 46.

[00:26:11] Alex: I didn’t, I missed it. Missed that episode.

[00:26:13] Jeff: no, no, we haven’t had that episode.

[00:26:15] Um, and where I’ve been at since then is obviously trying to find the right

[00:26:22] kind of medication. I had been being treated for ADHD with Vyvanse, and it turns out Vyvanse can bring out a manic episode. And I was also taking sertraline for anxiety, like Zoloft that can also have negative effects.

[00:26:35] I’m told again, everybody pleased. It’s just, I, I have, I have one gigantic body that’s different from every other body. And, uh, and so when I say something didn’t work for me, I just want to be really clear. I have no idea if it’ll work for you or not. Um,

[00:26:51] Christina: That’s that’s the fun with all this, right. We all get to try

[00:26:54] Jeff: that’s exactly the fun with

[00:26:55] Brett: for years on end.

[00:26:58] Jeff: So, yeah, exactly.

[00:26:59] So [00:27:00] anyway, I, I got this diagnosis, wasn’t a surprise to me, had been kind of avoiding it most of my life. Um,

[00:27:06] and I am just in the medication stacking phase where it’s like, you know, I was I’m, I take lithium and I take something called Seroquel and, uh, some, you know, Seroquel can bring on really intense dreams can, and I have, uh, I also suffered from PTSD.

[00:27:25] And so my dreams, which are normally really quite, quite incredibly bad, uh, got somehow worse. Um, and so then they gave me a drug to take that they give to veterans basically, uh, to try to, not to stop dreaming, but make it, so I don’t remember during this, it was like pills. It’s like stacking up on each other.

[00:27:44] Right. And then like, Seroquel. I don’t know if anybody has experience with this one. It’s an anti-psychotic. Okay.

[00:27:50] Alex: I recently got off off of it actually.

[00:27:53] Jeff: Oh, you did. Yeah. So I’m getting off of the next week one, I gained 15 pounds in three weeks and I’m already a large dude. [00:28:00] And so like big bone does. I may be, I, it does not feel good carrying that extra weight.

[00:28:06] Um, and, and it’s just, that’s just that drug is just, and what I keep hearing from my psychiatric nurse practitioner, from my therapist and from my doctor is like, that’s a drug that like, some people, you just need it. And, and it comes with a hell of a lot of side effects and risk. And in fact, my nurse practitioner said something that was like chilling to me, which is like, if you’re not watching things like your diet and, and, and all these other things to kind of mitigate, you know, high blood sugar and all of this, that like, this was her quote, like you can hurt yourself really quickly.

[00:28:39] I’m like, wait a minute. That’s like why I’m taking drugs. So I don’t hurt myself really quickly.

[00:28:44] Brett: I ask what your dosage was for?

[00:28:48] Jeff: Uh, well, just one second, Brett, let me just, let me just pull out the drawer.

[00:28:53] Brett: Oh, rattle, rattle.

[00:28:56] Jeff: So basically I, I take, um, [00:29:00] I take a hundred milligrams at night and then 50 milligrams in the day, in the morning and in the mid day.

[00:29:08] Brett: they had me taking 400 milligrams at night then basically being a zombie until about 2:00 PM the next day, having a few hours of waking being awake and then taking another two, 400 milligrams of Seroquel at night. It was insane that did

[00:29:31] Jeff: well what’s, what’s really concerning for me.

[00:29:33] when I’m dealing with, I mean, the one thing is like a therapist. that’s, something really helpful to me early on when I was starting with medications, which just like, just make sure that you position yourself so that anyone you’re bringing on the manager, medications is working alongside you.

[00:29:50] They’re not working up here, you know, like they are working with you. Um, cause it’s so easy for them to position themselves in the orbit somewhere. But, um, [00:30:00] what I’ve found, especially if you figure, like you got the lithium, you’ve got the Seroquel, then you got the dream problems. So you take the, uh, well, let me get that one.

[00:30:06] What’s it called? Hold on. This all starts with a P let’s just call it the people that, I mean, unfortunately we’re going to, we’re going to go with people. Um, then you’re, you know, you’re stacking these things up and pretty soon how I feel is that like wow, I felt tethered taking the first, you know, starting with lithium and a little bit of Seroquel.

[00:30:26] I still felt heathered to myself. Like I felt like I still could reach out and, and, and get hold of myself. But as you start to stack medications and you start to have side effects that actually change how your body feels to you, right.

[00:30:40] Alex: Yeah.

[00:30:41] Jeff: feel like less tethered. And pretty soon I feel like now I have this image where like, earth is here.

[00:30:48] I’m way out here. And then there’s like pills floating around in the middle. Right. And that I’m trying to really

[00:30:55] Brett: a bad thing. Are you, are you describing a

[00:30:57] Jeff: Yeah. I’m describing a bad thing? that [00:31:00] I am working actively. I mean, I’ve this last week and this next week, all I’ve had all the appointments. I need to kind of call myself back a little bit, but calling myself back just risks me being in a, in a situation where I’m like, Okay. but please help me explain these feelings and behaviors and whatever.

[00:31:17] Right. So it’s just like bouncing around. So I’m pretty exhausted by that, but really happy that I have the support I need and the people I need to kind of call and be like, Hey, this isn’t right. What do we do? You know? So currently it’s get the hell off Seroquel.

[00:31:34] Alex: Yeah, it’s, it’s one of those drugs that at the time definitely like saved my life and was, but, oh, I was just fucking miserable on it. And I mean, I’ve, I’ve kind of, I think been where you are right now of I’ve accepted that I am going to have various types of cocktails, [00:32:00] uh, with row throughout my life. And I am just happy that right now, Seroquel is not part of that cocktail.

[00:32:09] Um, and. I think we’ve all been on, you know, a lot of that long list of strange medication names, but the more you put into that cocktail, it’s like the easier it is to make it emotionally tastes nasty. So, uh, dude, I’m so glad that you have, um, a support system that, and I was lucky enough to have that too, but man, yeah, it’s fucking feels weird.

[00:32:44] Christina: Yeah, and it’s so hard. So I like, I’ve never, I’m not bipolar. Although I was incorrectly diagnosed as being bipolar when I was in high school, which was terrible. Um, because I pissed off the psychiatrist, she got mad at me for pushing back on the fact that she wanted me to take a [00:33:00] certain drug because she was getting kickbacks from the drug companies, which came out

[00:33:04] Brett: happened to me too. Yeah,

[00:33:05] Christina: Um, and, uh, and so she thought that, that my hyperness of, of being, you know, calling her out on her bullshit was me being bipolar when I am actually absolutely not bipolar. Um, and, and so giving, so giving a non bipolar person lithium, not, not great, not.

[00:33:21] Brett: being so bipolar right now.

[00:33:24] Christina: know, but not, not, not excellent, but I’ve gone through, I’ve had to go through like the medicine dance too many times.

[00:33:34] And it’s, I, I’m glad that you are getting off something that doesn’t make you feel good and that you have someone to support system, but I will say the one thing to kind of, to, to say like what Alex is saying in addition to, yes. It, it becomes like easy for that cocktail to taste nasty. There is also something that if you’re working with, um, side-by-side with your doctor, where they can recognize that certain types of medications work better with you than others, because so many of these things are [00:34:00] very, very similar, right?

[00:34:01] Like, like it might just be one kind of molecule difference. And, but, but they’re, they’re within the same families. And if you figure out, okay, I don’t have a good reaction at this, but I do respond to this that can, at least in theory, at least in my experience, it makes like the process of narrowing down what the.

[00:34:19] You know, combination is easier, even though it, unfortunately there’s no magic pill to make it, you know, no pun intended to like instantly make like, figure out, okay, this is what my, my brain chemistry looks like. These are the types of medications that will work well.

[00:34:35] Brett: Once you get to three meds at once. Like I take seven, like once you get to three, it becomes such a balancing act where like one minor change. Like normally if you were taking a certain medication for a certain, uh, illness and that it wasn’t affecting it the way you wanted it to you would Begley, you know, a five, [00:35:00] 10 milligram change in that medication.

[00:35:02] But when you’re balancing three or more medications that 10 milligram change in one place often requires a change in another place. And it is such, it takes years. And then she, and then she changes like nothing’s forever. Nothing will

[00:35:20] Jeff: was going to say, I feel like, I feel like the problem is in this case, the medications, it almost seems like it’s like healing itself. So Helion healing never ends, right? Like it’s a journey, right? Like, I mean, the parts that you heal from things, it’s not that nothing ends, but like healing is something that you’re kind of just you’re on that road until you die.

[00:35:39] Right. If hopefully, and medications just feel the same way. And that feels like two shitty ass roads

[00:35:47] Christina: Yes.

[00:35:48] Jeff: be going down.

[00:35:49] Alex: Yeah.

[00:35:50] Brett: It’s, it’s not ideal.

[00:35:53] Jeff: And to, to Alex’s point earlier about, Uh,

[00:35:56] employee ability in talking about mental health [00:36:00] and especially bipolar. I just want to say to any future employers, I don’t want a job. Anyhow. I never want a boss again. And I know I can’t work at Minnesota public radio again after last week’s episode. And so, but to anybody else, but honestly, I, what I would say is like, because I thought I thought about that, like, I’ve never mentioned being bipolar on here.

[00:36:21] It’s a fairly new thing, but, um, I just feel like, Hey, if there are employers here, first of all, don’t hire the white guy with number one. Uh, number two. I’m it’s good that I’m on meds. It’s good. I’m talking about this stuff. It means I’m better at working than I was. If you had a hired me 10 years ago, when I didn’t know how to even think about this stuff.

[00:36:44] Christina: no, that’s an excellent point. There is a stigma and, and there are still certain mental illnesses where there’s a stigma. I think ADHD, I think it’s finally kind of gone away. I think depression it’s gotten a lot better because we know enough people for, for whatever reason, bipolar. I think, I think you [00:37:00] all are right.

[00:37:00] There’s a, there’s a stigma and, and it’s, it’s unfair. And then there’s greater stigma with, with other, um, um, mental illnesses. But to your point, like, uh, Jeff, that’s such a great point. I hadn’t thought about it. It’s like, no, it’s good that people are talking about it. It’s good that people are getting help because it’s not as if these people who you would hire.

[00:37:19] If you didn’t know this, don’t have these, these, you know, uh, Like, I don’t have these diagnoses and don’t have these problems. It just means they’re, they’re trying to hide it and, and taking time off for reasons that you don’t understand. Um, and, and still going through the same challenges, it’s like, at least this way people are getting support and are facing their issues.

[00:37:42] Like, I would hope that that employers would see that, but obviously as we know, many employers don’t do those things, but, um,

[00:37:51] Brett: Since, since starting at Oracle, I’ve had, I think four different managers and one of them I clicked

[00:37:57] Jeff: just Christ. You’ve only worked there for like eight [00:38:00] months.

[00:38:00] Brett: A year. I’ve been there a year, a year, a year, a year on May 3rd. Um, and, uh, I’ve only shared with one of those managers. We, we clicked enough that I, I talked about my bipolar and why, you know, certain weeks I got just way too much shit done.

[00:38:19] And then. Um, and we have unlimited vacation time and I would just schedule myself a week. I would predict it was coming and I would take a week off and then just have a slow, uh, return. Um, only one of them. Did I ever trust enough? But the fact is I listed bipolar as a disability when I was going through the hiring process.

[00:38:49] And as far as the way I understand it is they can not fire me for being bipolar. Um, like that is there are, there are [00:39:00] laws about that. They can fire me for doing a shit job,

[00:39:03] Christina: Yes.

[00:39:05] Brett: but

[00:39:05] Christina: But, but if it is difficult, they have to, they have to show that it’s separate from other things. It can’t be Brett took time off for his mental health. Um, the challenge, I think, and, and, and I still, as much as like, I’m a huge proponent of, of talking about mental health and I’ve always been very open about mine.

[00:39:20] And if anybody ever wanted to research me before they, you know, interviewed me, they would know that I’ve been talking about my depression and ADHD. Um, as long as I’ve been on the internet, uh, because for me it’s been one of those things. I’m like, if I’m, if I’m blessed enough to have a platform and to have the privilege where I

[00:39:38] Brett: got diagnosed at a young age

[00:39:40] Christina: Yes, yes. I was, I was, I was, I was 12 when I was diagnosed with depression, but I self-diagnosed when I was younger than that. And then I’ve been, um, I’ve had an ADHD diagnosis and subs like 15. So, um, I, uh, but, but for me, so people would know this. If I still would go out, I was [00:40:00] still say as much of a proponent of, you know, discussing and being open, I would never reveal in an interview.

[00:40:06] Like I would never be something that I would openly discuss in a job interview with someone I just wouldn’t. And I would not encourage other people to do that as, as wrong as it is. Do, do what you did, you know, to do, to listed on your list of like, do I have a disability thing for HR? 100% do that for sure.

[00:40:24] But in the job interview process? No,

[00:40:27] Brett: Yeah, I would never mention bipolar in a job interview. I would mention ADHD because it’s fucking accepted. And especially in the tech industry, you’re hiring ADHD, people left and right. You already have ADHD people working for you. You’ve already made accommodations for that. Like, I don’t feel like that’s a huge

[00:40:46] Christina: No, I

[00:40:46] Brett: my,

[00:40:48] Christina: know. And I, and I agree with that. No. I agree with that. I, to me, it would really deter. It would, it would depend on like, I guess maybe the tenor of the conversation. Like if it came up in a natural way, I wouldn’t like hide it, [00:41:00] but it also wouldn’t be something that I’m like, oh, I made, you know what I mean?

[00:41:03] Like

[00:41:04] Brett: I mentioned it in the first, first round of interviews I did for Oracle. Um, like before, like you get to like the technical interview or anything, the very first round of interviews. It just, it, it came up in an organic enough way that I couldn’t help myself. You know, I tend to be, I just spill, I just spill my guts.

[00:41:26] And, uh, and it turned out that the manager I was interviewing with her husband was also ADHD. So it actually ended up being like, we connected over ADHD instead of it being like a mark against me. So that worked out in my

[00:41:43] Christina: that’s all.

[00:41:44] Brett: but I can understand reserving that information.

[00:41:47] Christina: Yeah. No, totally. And, and, and like, think if it feels right, obviously do it, but the app of like you’re bipolar and things like that, it is illegal for them to actually exclude you for those reasons. That does not mean that they won’t. Yeah. You know [00:42:00] what I mean? It’s just,

[00:42:00] Brett: sure. There’s no carry.

[00:42:03] Alex: Yeah. Well, and the other thing I worry about is if it gets to a point where we are cool with ADHD and bipolar in the workplace, it’s like, oh man, when do you employers decide to start to harness that? Like I like my boss shouldn’t expect other workers to just get shit done, done in 24 hours without, you know, knowing the ramifications of that.

[00:42:38] And without disclosing that stuff, I’m like, do I just look like I’m this awesome or productive person, you know, then I’ll be like just doing the bare minimum for, for like a week. And I don’t know, it’s like a weird balancing act with that disclosure, along with [00:43:00] the, you know, not wanting to glamorize it.

[00:43:03] And it’s like, I mean, you know, this week brought to you by bodily autonomy. Um, I, I almost am surprised that more tech companies don’t openly talk about this because it’s like the tech for these cocktails are getting better every, every year for all of these pills and stuff. And man, I don’t know. It’s tough.

[00:43:26] I’m glad that your manager was like, oh yeah, the ADHD stuff. Cool.

[00:43:32] Brett: This episode brought to you by mental health. Do you ever wonder why you don’t fit in with your friends? Do you ever feel left out, try mental health

[00:43:46] Christina: That’s a good one.

[00:43:49] Jeff: Oh my God.

[00:43:51] Brett: is a mental health episode who would’ve thought bring Alex Cox on and just talk about mental health, the entire episode.[00:44:00]

[00:44:00] Alex: Shush shocker to anyone who has ever listened to any of my other show. Yeah. I don’t want that. I’m contractually obligated to mention I’m in gender and mental health on every

[00:44:18] Brett: Yeah.

[00:44:21] Alex: goodness. I hope

[00:44:23] Jeff: got to get gender as a

[00:44:24] Alex: me. Yeah. Oh man. Gender. Are you confused? Try gender.

[00:44:32] Christina: It’s a spectrum. Don’t, you know,

[00:44:34] Alex: Yeah.

[00:44:36] Brett: Oh, the don’t, you know, trying to fit in with the Midwesterner.

[00:44:40] Christina: trying, that’s what I said. This is, this is like it’s the Midwestern podcast, uh, featuring. Wherever the hell. I’m from Christina Warren. Yeah.

[00:44:50] Brett: For, for anyone who isn’t tracking, we have Jeff and Brett in Minnesota. We have Alex in Chicago and Christina just [00:45:00] nomadic right now. She’s on the east coast. Usually she’s on the, on the other coast, uh, where the, where the liberals live, um, just, just gets around. So of Christina’s Christina’s a special guest, it’s a Midwest podcast with special guest Christina.

[00:45:21] Jeff: Alex, have you always been in Chicago?

[00:45:25] Alex: I am other than the first 18 years of being trapped in the suburbs. Yeah. I’m I am in Chicago and planned to be for a while. How old am I? I’m 31. Oh gosh. So yeah, I’ve been here a long time and I I’m, I’m like a Lakeside elite, I guess.

[00:45:46] Jeff: Excellent. I had six great years in Chicago. I loved it so much. I lived in six different neighborhoods in that time somehow.

[00:45:54] Alex: was, uh, what was your favorite neighborhood?

[00:45:56] Jeff: Oh my God. Uh, so lived in Humboldt park and really loved. That [00:46:00] probably was my favorite. Now I’m talking humble park 19. 98. So it’s like, whatever’s true now. Wasn’t true then. And then I lived in Andersonville for, uh, for a bit, um, which is near where this magazine punk planet was located, where I worked

[00:46:18] Alex: Oh, cool. That’s oh man. As a total youth poser, uh, well,

[00:46:24] Jeff: You both

[00:46:25] Alex: youth in

[00:46:26] Jeff: you’re not you

[00:46:27] Alex: no, no, wait in terms of, well, in terms of the Chicago punk scene, you know, but the that’s awesome. Oh, that’s so cool. I’m jealous. I’m jealous once again. You’re also cool.

[00:46:39] Jeff: I found a, I found a punk.

[00:46:41] planet issue that I wrote for recently where I wrote, I wrote about podcasts, which really had only been a thing That people were talking about for about a year. And, uh, and it was not long after people started. It was not long after people started calling them podcasts instead of audio blog. [00:47:00] And it was right around the time that the only thing radio knew to call it knew to call it was time shifted radio,

[00:47:05] Alex: I mean,

[00:47:09] Jeff: those mother fuckers. Don’t do it every fucking time.

[00:47:13] Alex: I’ve always thought podcasting was like the worst possible name, but that’s where that’s, it’s worse

[00:47:19] Christina: is. It really is. Well, well,

[00:47:22] Jeff: go ahead,

[00:47:22] Christina: I know it’s going to say Leo port tried to make net cast a thing and, and I love Leo.

[00:47:27] Alex: Yeah.

[00:47:28] Christina: exactly, exactly. I was about to say,

[00:47:30] Alex: From people you love.

[00:47:32] Christina: Nick, Nick, has that cast you like from people you love, um, exactly short, short, try and try and make net cast. The thing is like, no, it’s it’s it’s

[00:47:41] Alex: Yeah. As soon as Steve jobs said it.

[00:47:44] Brett: brought to you by bad Dames. Have you ever encountered a new technology and not knowing what to call it? Try a bad name.

[00:47:52] Christina: Yes. Uh,

[00:47:57] Jeff: the super crazy thing was that when I did this story, which was [00:48:00] like, Uh,

[00:48:01] 2005, um,

[00:48:03] Alex: Oh my God. I might have fucking read that. Holy shit.

[00:48:07] Jeff: here’s the, well,

[00:48:08] Alex: out to borders to get a punk planet. Oh

[00:48:11] Jeff: of radio

[00:48:13] Christina: oh my God. I just found this on the, on the internet archive. just found this on the internet archive. This is so

[00:48:18] Alex: Can you send this to me? Oh my God. Oh my God. This is so exciting. Oh my God. I literally just hurt my jaw

[00:48:25] Jeff: there was a podcast back then, which was a total just like bullshit and podcasts called Don and drew. And it was a husband and wife

[00:48:31] Christina: Oh, I heard the Don and drew show. That

[00:48:33] Jeff: remember.

[00:48:33] Christina: a really huge one.

[00:48:34] Jeff: They like broadcast from their barn and they were so fucking funny and I interviewed them there because they were like about all you could find to interview that wasn’t like tech people at the time.

[00:48:45] And so I highly recommend reading this because it is a crazy ass piece of history realizing that it’s 2005 was not that long ago, but I’m literally, we were writing about podcasting as this new thing. Right. And it’s just like [00:49:00] insane to read, but Yeah.

[00:49:01] Audio blogs.

[00:49:02] Brett: I want, this to continue. I don’t want anything to change, but I want to point out that Jeff is supposed to be at a wedding and is currently wearing a hoodie.

[00:49:11] Alex: Ah,

[00:49:13] Brett: How are you doing

[00:49:13] GrrrrrAPPtitude

[00:49:13] Jeff: can, can we do early gratitude?

[00:49:16] Christina: Yes,

[00:49:16] Brett: let’s do it. Oh my God. Okay. I fucked up on this too. I did not warn Alex at all that we were going to do this segment,

[00:49:26] Jeff: that’s. All right. It’s easy to, it’s easy to set up. We can go first while, while Alex

[00:49:31] Alex: yeah, yeah, go T I’ll be teed up by the time. Um, get around

[00:49:37] Brett: understand the concept? So basically we just talk about one developer or application that we are thankful for this week, usually indie stuff, but you know what? We’ll, we’ll, we’ll foray into, uh, major

[00:49:52] Alex: got mine already.

[00:49:53] Jeff: I, I think I thanked the team that made Clippy, um, not long ago. Uh, [00:50:00] so

[00:50:01] Brett: Do you see that meme? If you see the meme with the toilet paper holder,

[00:50:06] Alex: No,

[00:50:07] Brett: a twisted up Clippy and it had a little, uh, talk bubble next to it that said Microsoft. I haven’t heard that name in years.

[00:50:17] Jeff: All right. Here’s the thing I have to go first and then I’m going to mute myself and took the video off while I get dressed in the studio, which is also my office. Um, so that I can absolutely catch every second of this. Okay. Um, Okay.

[00:50:32] so mine this week. So I love, I love me some mind mapping fucking love it.

[00:50:37] Uh, sometimes it’s the only way I can think is anybody familiar with the most adorable application web app ever made. I want you to K I N O P I O you go to that thing and you’re started right away with your mind map. It can do every awesome thing any other app can [00:51:00] do, and you don’t have to log in. You can just make your, your, your mind map, right?

[00:51:04] When you, right. When you drop right in there, it has an amazing selection feature where you can just like write in the browser and make your mind map. And then just like draw a circle around all the ones that you want to highlight, like you would in a regular app, but something that’s not that common. In my experience in web apps, there are just things that this web app does like be adorable that it does better than.

[00:51:28] So many, Uh, of the mind maps that exists and it’s collaborative, you can pay like five bucks to be like a regular user. They say it was adorable. Anyway, I don’t know what to say about it. Cause I’m thinking about getting dressed for a wedding. But I just want to say that if you like mind maps, go to and just start playing and see what it does.

[00:51:49] And you’ll be surprised because it’s one of those things, you know, how video games kind of teach you how to play them the best video games, like super Mario brothers. Like it teaches you right away. That’s a mushroom, you score shit, [00:52:00] whatever. Right? Like I, like to say scores. Um, this is one of those types of things where you’re just like, you start doing things and it’s the what?

[00:52:07] So can OPO

[00:52:09] Brett: I do love my band, my mind maps.

[00:52:11] Jeff: that’s right. I’m gonna, I’m gonna turn off videos so I can put on a sweater.

[00:52:16] Brett: you know, if

[00:52:16] Jeff: That’s private

[00:52:17] Brett: leaving video on, like, I’m

[00:52:19] Jeff: private putting on a sweater as private, but I’m with you. I’m with you still.

[00:52:24] Brett: All right. Oh, I want to, he left the mic on so we can hear.

[00:52:29] Jeff: muted that shit.

[00:52:30] Christina: Yeah, I was

[00:52:30] Brett: No, you did not.

[00:52:33] Jeff: See, there’s going to hear a lot of like, this is my hoodie for what it’s worth.

[00:52:38] Brett: All right, Christina, what do you have?

[00:52:40] Christina: So, um, um, Simon stoppering, I hope I’m saying his name correctly.

[00:52:46] Brett: I’ve always said silvering

[00:52:47] Christina: it might be sobering. I don’t know.

[00:52:49] Brett: never actually heard anyone say it

[00:52:51] Christina: it, it, it Swedish, it was Denmark, so it was Dutch. Um, it’s, uh, Denmark is Dutch, right?

[00:52:58] Brett: fuck. If I know [00:53:00] Nordic shit, I’m out.

[00:53:02] Alex: confidence with unearned confidence.

[00:53:06] Christina: No, I think D I think Denmark is Danish. I apologize to the people of Denmark anyway. Um, he, so, uh, so he’s the developer of, uh, some of my favorite iOS, um, apps, um, uh, scriptable.app, which is a scriptable app, which is like a, um, an iOS app that lets you automate things using JavaScript. Um, it’s very similar to like, it works with Siri shortcuts.

[00:53:26] Um, but, but it’s, um, really good. There’s an app called data jar that works on Mac and, um, uh, uh, iOS, which, um, works with shortcuts if you want to do that stuff, but he just released a new app this week. Um, so I want to give him just a shout out in general, but he released new app this week called Runestone, which is a plain text editor for, um, iPhone and iPad.

[00:53:48] And it’s really, really good is it’s kind of like, like he describes it as like a customizable and colorful text at it. Um, and, um, it’s, um, it’s [00:54:00] free. Um, there’s no resource framework. It’s $10 if you want. Some of the features, but it has some built-in syntax highlighting and some stuff, but it’s, um, it’s really good.

[00:54:10] And, and I really appreciate it’s called Runestone R U N E S T O N E. And it came out this week. I’m really, really impressed with it. And because I’ve in general really appreciated his apps. Um, it’s uh, it’s good. So it has some text highlighting and line numbers and theming and invisible characters, and it’s just a nice, lightweight, um, plain text editor.

[00:54:33] Um,

[00:54:34] Brett: be on ITEX editors. Y all right, I’m gonna, I’m gonna tweet him. anyone who hasn’t seen it, I maintain a table of iOS, text editors for plain text and markdown text editing. And generally when a new one comes out, they contact me off the bat to add it to text editors, because it has the number one, like traffic [00:55:00] page on my site.

[00:55:01] Christina: yeah.

[00:55:02] Brett: I will make sure this gets added.

[00:55:04] Christina: make sure it gets added. Yeah. Um, the nice thing too, I just want to add, um, like I said, he made the framework open source and what’s great about that is that if you want it to have like a plain text editor in your own iOS app, you could use what he’s open source, which is really, really nice.

[00:55:20] So I, I really, I really appreciate this. Um, it was $10 for a lifetime on unlock. Um, and, um, I was, uh, very, which I was very happy to, to, to pay for before I even like played with the app. There’s also some fun like features like there’s he created like a flappy bird kind of helicopter game clone, um, which was really fun.

[00:55:40] So, so anyway, uh, shout out to Simon, shout out to Runestone. Uh, that’s my that’s my grandma.

[00:55:46] Brett: the top review on this page is I wrote this review in Runestone a good, a good tech centers, like a freshly sharpen knife. It just feels good to use. Yeah, I’m into this. I’m going to check this out.[00:56:00]

[00:56:01] Alex: I mean, uh, so Christina absolutely stole mine

[00:56:06] Christina: Oh, no.

[00:56:07] Alex: no, no. I’ve got another one T T it up, but, uh, I beta tested this app for a awhile and as someone who’s not a coder or programmer, I still need to use text file love using text files constantly. And just the, the Syntech. Simon’s just such a nice dude too, and has like answered questions and it’s, the documentation is also a really great, and I think very accessible to someone who is new to all of this, or if you’re like me who like, you know, enough to sort of be dangerous.

[00:56:42] Um, and a lot of amazing, like it’s also just fricking pretty like that’s, that’s the other thing about it there hasn’t been like, I think a really pretty. Yeah, just pretty lightweight, um, iOS checks, editing app in a while, but I [00:57:00] do have another, uh, Brett, do you mind if I, if I, should I go now?

[00:57:03] Brett: Yeah, absolutely. Please

[00:57:05] Alex: Yeah. There’s there’s this app, um, called a bunch and it is Mac automation with plain text.

[00:57:13] And as I mentioned, love, love, love, just so horny for plain text love Brett site. And I think, I don’t know who made this app bunch, but I don’t know. It seems like a smart guy. Um, and this is actually like, I guess I am plugging, um, my podcasts with him or Illumina due by Friday, we do a challenge each week and this week is to just catch up on bunch because I mentioned I have a new computer and I am just getting a bunch of new automation set up and having.

[00:57:45] Bunch is not just one of those things where I love it and get all horny for plain text, but also the documentation is so great. And it, uh, again, that is like something that is [00:58:00] essential for my, my brain and with automation. That’s, it’s almost part of my mental health because when I am either manic and I need to bounce around super quickly, bunched helps me with that or when I am incredibly depressed and just need things to work and don’t want to touch it.

[00:58:23] That’s another thing that is amazing with bunch. So

[00:58:27] Brett: like it was made by someone bipolar.

[00:58:29] Christina: Ha almost like it. I know I love this also. Um, Alex, I think that that horny for playing texts, I think that’s the episode title.

[00:58:38] Alex: yeah.

[00:58:38] Brett: Oh, my God. It is.

[00:58:40] Christina: Yeah. Thank you for that. Because, because horny for plain text is also, that could be all of our band names. Like all four of us that

[00:58:48] Alex: Yup.

[00:58:48] Christina: name.

[00:58:50] Alex: So, so yeah. Um, and especially, I think, uh, I bet a lot of your audiences, uh, hashtag pivoting, um, back to back to the [00:59:00] Mac that apple loves to say, um, from iOS to, um, Macko S which I have just because, um, you know, with shortcuts coming to the Mac, the automation has been so great and it is more accessible to me who is, again, just dangerous enough to break things with code, but cannot necessarily code my own stuff unless there’s amazing documentation like bunch has.

[00:59:26] So that is, that is my, uh, rep is a gratitude

[00:59:32] Brett: Perhaps,

[00:59:32] Christina: yep.

[00:59:33] Alex: So thank you to whoever made bunch, a lot of.

[00:59:36] Brett: thank you for talking about the documentation. I am like, I’m proud of bunch. Like I, I like bunch, but I’m extra proud of the documentation. Like I poured so much time into creating usable, extensive documentation for this thing I created. So thank you. That that’s really nice to hear. I [01:00:00] appreciate that. Um,

[01:00:01] Alex: Yeah. Thank you.

[01:00:03] Brett: Yeah.

[01:00:04] So I’m, I’m, I’m going with Mac updater this week.

[01:00:08] Christina: Yes,

[01:00:09] Brett: have this app that runs in the background all the time and lets me know which of my Mac apps, uh, both Mac apps store and direct, uh, and even set up, lets me know which one of them needs update at any given time, gives me one click button to update all my apps to their latest versions, whether or not I’m currently running them, just keeps everything up to date.

[01:00:36] It’s fantastic. It’s called Mac update or, and I, I, I don’t even have to think about it. It just, every once in a while, a window pops up that says these eight apps need updates and I can click one button and update them all. And it is an excellent piece of independent software.

[01:00:55] Christina: I love

[01:00:56] Alex: Does this include apps from the Mac app store?[01:01:00]

[01:01:00] Christina: Yeah.

[01:01:00] Alex: Oh, that’s so cool. Oh, getting this bad boy right now.

[01:01:05] Christina: And what’s great about it is that for the Mac app store thing, like you can, you can have it. So it’ll show you like it it’ll show you like a, um, a special icon, um, to show that it’s Mac app store, you can open it immediately in the app store. And sometimes, you know, the Mac app store won’t show you that an update is available, even though it’s available.

[01:01:23] And, and so this is the thing where you can like click open and then all of a sudden, you know, you have the update option on that app. So

[01:01:29] Brett: And the, and the button will say, get app and it’ll pause for a few seconds. And then it’ll say update app, because, because Mac updater was on top of it more than the MAs, more than a Mac apps or app was. And, and it will notify you if, if a version number is a major version bump,

[01:01:50] Christina: Hm.

[01:01:50] Brett: um, it will avoid updating and let you know, maybe this is a paid update and you need to investigate further.

[01:01:59] And you [01:02:00] can, if an app, if you have an app that you don’t want to update, for any reason, you can just click ignore and it’ll stop scanning that app for new updates, or you can just ignore a single update. It is it’s re it’s just really well done. It’s a very tough find a use case updating applications, but it does it really

[01:02:18] Christina: It doesn’t really well, there’s a CLI if you get like the pro version, um, which, uh, so, so you can even like run it like from the command line, if, if you don’t, if you want to interface it with it that way, which is really great. Um, it also, um, it will check like brew casks of, of things. So you can even use it, you know, it was kind of a brew tool in a sense.

[01:02:41] Um, yeah, huge fan.

[01:02:44] Brett: I

[01:02:44] Alex: Oh, I

[01:02:45] Brett: Jeff has gone. I think we lost Jeff. So

[01:02:49] Christina: We might’ve lost.

[01:02:50] Brett: it’s just us now. All right. Well, Alex, thanks so much for, and we missed last week because [01:03:00] I screwed up scheduling, uh, thanks for bearing with us and showing up this

[01:03:04] Christina: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I’m sorry that, that,

[01:03:07] Alex: you.

[01:03:08] Christina: yeah, no, I’m glad. I’m so glad I was able to be on with you. Cause that last week I had to, um, uh, get my hair cut. Just being honest. I had told Brett like what my time was and then we got our time zones mixed up,

[01:03:20] Brett: Well, and then she, and then she flew somewhere that was a three hour time difference. And, and she texted me at what was my time, 7:15 AM on a Saturday. And she’s like, are you ready to record in 45 minutes? And, and I was planning on recording at noon and I

[01:03:37] Christina: So, so he uses like three hours and 45 minutes. No, and I, and I was like, I had receipts. I was like, no, but I said 9:00 AM Eastern. And um,

[01:03:45] Brett: and I agreed to it. She showed me a screen capture of the text conversation where I fucked it up. I, I did fuck it up.

[01:03:56] Christina: but we, but we were both wrong because I, the heat, the [01:04:00] correct thing was in the, um, the calendar invite, which I didn’t notice it being the wrong time zone because I was in Seattle where it looked normal. And then the reason I sent the text is I was in Atlanta and I was like, wait, this is showing that this is going to be in three hours and 45 minutes.

[01:04:16] And I can’t do it then because I have to get my hair cut because I have to see people that I haven’t seen in 25 years.

[01:04:24] Brett: And as much as I wanted to have Alex on, I didn’t want to have Alex on without Christina. I just felt like those two needed to talk.

[01:04:32] Christina: absolutely. I’m so glad because I’m such a big fan and I’m

[01:04:35] Alex: No, no, no. I was such a big fan of yours and I’m going to absolutely bug you to be on the future show that I’m embarrassed about, but it’s slowly getting, uh, I’m slowly becoming proud of it. And I just. I am so, so grateful for your advocacy in tech, as well as, I mean, you’re straight up reporting [01:05:00] and I mean, it, I I’ve been a fan of yours since God, like high school.

[01:05:05] Yeah. I mean, both of you, but back fucking AO… TUAW?.

[01:05:10] Christina: Yes.

[01:05:10] Yes.

[01:05:13] Alex: So this is like a dream genuinely like a dream come true. And, um, I’m gonna get a little tear yet, cause I, I I’ve never met you in real life, Christina, but Brett, I was had the privilege of meeting you at sea to eat to the last, uh, the last time I was at a convention

[01:05:32] Brett: Yeah, me too.

[01:05:34] Alex: so I hope that, um, one day we can hang out in real life.

[01:05:39] Christina: Absolutely.

[01:05:40] Brett: we do want that RSS feed. And if you, if you have the nerve, we will publish it in the show notes, but that is entirely up to

[01:05:49] Christina: completely up to you, but yeah, I sent you a DM. I sent you a DM because I want it just separate from whether we put it. The shirts are not,

[01:05:57] Brett: Yes, I am.

[01:05:58] Alex: all right. Cool. Cool. [01:06:00] Cool. I think I probably, I probably will. This is, this is definitely the audience for this. I feel like all of the overtired folks are fucking awesome.

[01:06:08] Brett: Nice. Nice. All right. Well, Hey, you guys get some sleep.

[01:06:14] Christina: Get some sleep.